In competitive play slivers has a terrible reputation of being that "fish deck that's worse than fish" and from the decklists I have seen that is warranted. It doesn't help either everybody and their cousin has some trash sliver deck with 37 slivers + sliver queen they think is good, but would easily fold to any combo deck out there. So I know people are going to be skeptical when I say this, but I honestly think Slivers can (and will) be better than fish and there's one card, one badass card that very few have considered that I believe can propel this deck to the top and that is (drum roll...) Mirror Entity.
Mirror Entity is for all intents and purposes a sliver. It's changeling ability makes it a sliver in all zones of play meaning it is a sliver when it is in your hand as well as when it is in play. It works with Cavern of Souls, it works with Sliver Hive, it gets all the bonuses normal slivers get, and to top it off if you use a little imagination can take any non sliver "hatebear" and temporarily turn that into a sliver too if you wanna go that route as well (I'm personally not doing that because the land base doesn't support it, but I'm just saying you can).
Mirror Entity doesn't work well in other lord decks like Merfolk because the lords only affect other creatures and don't give themselves a bonus like the sliver lords do. If you have a Mirror Entity in play and just two Sliver lords with 4 mana you are pumping all your creatures up to a 6/6, which chances are is going to be all you need to swing at them for lethal damage. Even if Mirror Entity is all you got left to fight with it can be a late game mana sink that can potentially get big and win the game. After all with wastelands you have 24 lands to pump this guy up with.
What can they do to disrupt this? Not much. If you have cavern of souls they can't counter it. If you have Crystalline out they can't target it. Thoughtseize? Cabal Therapy? If get a chalice set on 1 early enough it's a big "nope" to that too. I'm not saying you'll always get the stuff you need out to protect these guys, but if you manage to set all your pieces down there isn't a whole lot of answers for this. Even wrath effects if you lay down Thorn of Amethyst and start copying that with Phyrexian Metamorph and then start wastelanding them for good measure unless they can miracle a terminus (hopefully you'll have chalice so they can't brainstorm it in) it's not going to work.
And that's another non conventional pick I made here. Unfortunately, Cavern's anti-counter effect won't work on Phyrexian Metamorph, but since all you need is 3 generic mana casting him isn't a problem.
Yes, Phyrexian Metamorph is 1 mana (+2 life) more expensive than Phantasmal Image, but he has so much more utility since he can copy of any artifact or creature in play. So if you feel you need an extra Thorn of Amethyst to stop them you have that. If you feel you need an extra lord to finish them you have that. And if they lay down something crazy like an Emrakul or Marit Lage as long as they don't give it haste you can just copy it. Also note I'm including ancient tomb so Phyrexian Metamorph can get powered out just as quickly as Phantasmal Image so even though it takes some life to do this I don't consider it that much of a drawback if the result is you might be stopping all kinds of cheap spells that can either do damage or outright kill you.
So here's what Cup O' Slivers (I didn't create this name, but I thought it fits this deck well) is doing different from other decklists we've seen in past.
1. We are using Mirror Entity as a finisher to pump our guys up and swing for lethal damage.
2. We are using Chalice of the Void and Thorn of Amethyst + Phyrexian Metamorph as a disruption package instead of relying solely on FOW like in "counter slivers". Although we will be boarding FOW in as needed when facing combo decks. I think with 12 blue spells there's enough to pitch to FOW the second game, if not I might decide to put hibernation sliver in the sideboard for this purpose.
3. To go with the taxes aspect of the deck we are running wastelands to make their spells even harder to cast rather than opt for Mutavaults for more power.
Also another intangible this deck has I believe is that it's sort of budget considering that while cards like Chalice, FOW, and Cavern of Souls are pretty expensive comparably it's not as much as many other Legacy decks out there running a lot of very expensive dual and fetch lands.
I estimate you can build the main deck for about $1200 and then after you buy the FOWs for the sideboard it'll come to about $1500. Admittedly this is more than merfolk, but it's goddamn slivers and you know slivers are much cooler than merfolk. Plus all the expensive cards here are staples that will be useful in many other competitive decks and casual tribal decks you'd want to run.
Spells (8)
4x thorn of amethyst
4x chalice of the void
Lands (24)
4x cavern of souls
4x sliver hive
4x unclaimed territory
4x mana confluence
4x ancient tomb
4x wasteland
sideboard (15)
4x force of will
2x hunter sliver
2x harmonic sliver
3x sorcerous spyglass
3x surgical extraction
1x homing sliver
Matchups:
Admittedly I haven't got to test this deck a whole lot, but the decks I think will give this list the most trouble is dredge, dragon stompy, or eldrazi aggro. My biggest fear first game would be running into something like Blood Moon or Back to Basics. Terminus would also be a nightmare if that resolved when playing against miracles. If Toxic Deluge comes out from a sideboard that would also be a potential insta-wipe for this deck. Fiery confluence can be a wipe too if I'm not careful and can't get a couple lords down before they cast it.
Force of will is there in the sideboard to not only save my creatures from getting wiped off the board like this, but also to prevent some really fast combo deck like reanimator or storm going off first turn before I can lay down my disruption pieces. I could of went the counters slivers route, but I just didn't feel like protecting against the rare situation of my opponent getting to play first and then managing to kill me turn 1 was worth the constant card disadvantage of putting FOW in mainboard. I'd rather have something more permanent on the board that can really shut them down. I don't think just FOWing one spell is going to be enough to stop most combos. After all, most just protect it with something like duress anyway.
What's nice is that if a Phyrexian Metamorph resolves as a copy of thorn or in a pinch as a 0 set copy of chalice I can potentially have something that cannot be targeted. So even if they start siding in cards to destroy my artifacts the copies will be protected from further disruption by Crystalline Sliver.
True name nemesis is a card I can also see giving me problems. I can copy it with my Phyrexian Metamorph and then still get all the benefits of slivers when I activate my Mirror Image, but I don't have a neat way of getting rid of it.
I think this deck is going to be relatively even vs most other aggro decks. I'm kind of banking on Mirror Entity in match 1 and then hunter slivers coming out in match 2 and 3 being the factors that'll give me the slight upper hand. Against Affinity I don't see what they can really do against me game 2 and 3 if I lay a harmonic sliver down and then start going ham on everything they got.
However against something like Eldrazi aggro I see this deck being at a disadvantage. I have a lot of things geared towards stopping smaller 1 drops that are extremely common and then taxing out more expensive spells like show and tell, but then big creatures getting accelerated out I really have nothing for. It's not impossible to win, but I see being at a disadvantage.
Combo and to a lesser degree control is where I think this deck will really shine. Against storm I can go ancient tomb into a chalice on 1 or a thorn of amethyst first turn. Then second turn copy thorn with phyrexian metamorph. Pop out 2 slivers a turn the next couple rounds and then GG.
Against control like Grixis or 4c I'm just going to keep taxing them out of the game while wastelanding their 4 color monstrosity to disrupt their manabase. Swords to plowshares and lightning bolts will be completely useless. Counterspells will just get rid of my artifacts unless they can wasteland cavern of souls away. They almost have to deal with everything I have to be able to win. One of the primary advantages of this deck is that it resists disruption and that's pretty much control's entire gameplan.
Now a control style strategy in the form of indirect control through blood moon or ensnaring bridge or even something that can get around my chalice like hymn to tourach or plainswalkers these are things this deck won't deal with well. So I have a sideboard package of sorcerous spyglass, FOW, and harmonic sliver to give myself a better chance in these kinds of matchups.
Tl;dr: I believe counter slivers can be improved upon ditching the counter magic at least mainboard and going a more D&T/Affinity route with chalice + thorn and phyrexian metamorph to copy it and also by adding in Mirror Entity as a finisher.
The matches I think this will do well against are combo (except for dredge) and control. I think aggro will be roughly even except for Eldrazi aggro where I'll be at a disadvantage and Affinity where I'll be at an advantage. I also think mono red prison will be a poor matchup, but I think post sideboard is winnable.
Competitively I believe this list is viable. I've put a ton of work into agonizing over every little piece and every inclusion and exclusion on this deck taking every interaction in legacy into account to make the best sliver deck I can possibly make.
So what are you guy's thoughts on this? Is this deck good? Is it terrible? Is it an improvement over counter slivers? Can it compete at tier 1 or at least tier 2? Can we bring slivers into competitive or is the whole practice just a waste of time?
I'd really like to know you guy's thoughts on all this.
In competitive play slivers has a terrible reputation of being that "fish deck that's worse than fish" and from the decklists I have seen that is warranted. It doesn't help either everybody and their cousin has some trash sliver deck with 37 slivers + sliver queen they think is good, but would easily fold to any combo deck out there. So I know people are going to be skeptical when I say this, but I honestly think Slivers can (and will) be better than fish and there's one card, one badass card that very few have considered that I believe can propel this deck to the top and that is (drum roll...) Mirror Entity.
Mirror Entity is for all intents and purposes a sliver. It's changeling ability makes it a sliver in all zones of play meaning it is a sliver when it is in your hand as well as when it is in play. It works with Cavern of Souls, it works with Sliver Hive, it gets all the bonuses normal slivers get, and to top it off if you use a little imagination can take any non sliver "hatebear" and temporarily turn that into a sliver too if you wanna go that route as well (I'm personally not doing that because the land base doesn't support it, but I'm just saying you can).
Mirror Entity doesn't work well in other lord decks like Merfolk because the lords only affect other creatures and don't give themselves a bonus like the sliver lords do. If you have a Mirror Entity in play and just two Sliver lords with 4 mana you are pumping all your creatures up to a 6/6, which chances are is going to be all you need to swing at them for lethal damage. Even if Mirror Entity is all you got left to fight with it can be a late game mana sink that can potentially get big and win the game. After all with wastelands you have 24 lands to pump this guy up with.
What can they do to disrupt this? Not much. If you have cavern of souls they can't counter it. If you have Crystalline out they can't target it. Thoughtseize? Cabal Therapy? If get a chalice set on 1 early enough it's a big "nope" to that too. I'm not saying you'll always get the stuff you need out to protect these guys, but if you manage to set all your pieces down there isn't a whole lot of answers for this. Even wrath effects if you lay down Thorn of Amethyst and start copying that with Phyrexian Metamorph and then start wastelanding them for good measure unless they can miracle a terminus (hopefully you'll have chalice so they can't brainstorm it in) it's not going to work.
And that's another non conventional pick I made here. Unfortunately, Cavern's anti-counter effect won't work on Phyrexian Metamorph, but since all you need is 3 generic mana casting him isn't a problem.
Yes, Phyrexian Metamorph is 1 mana (+2 life) more expensive than Phantasmal Image, but he has so much more utility since he can copy of any artifact or creature in play. So if you feel you need an extra Thorn of Amethyst to stop them you have that. If you feel you need an extra lord to finish them you have that. And if they lay down something crazy like an Emrakul or Marit Lage as long as they don't give it haste you can just copy it. Also note I'm including ancient tomb so Phyrexian Metamorph can get powered out just as quickly as Phantasmal Image so even though it takes some life to do this I don't consider it that much of a drawback if the result is you might be stopping all kinds of cheap spells that can either do damage or outright kill you.
So here's what Cup O' Slivers (I didn't create this name, but I thought it fits this deck well) is doing different from other decklists we've seen in past.
1. We are using Mirror Entity as a finisher to pump our guys up and swing for lethal damage.
2. We are using Chalice of the Void and Thorn of Amethyst + Phyrexian Metamorph as a disruption package instead of relying solely on FOW like in "counter slivers". Although we will be boarding FOW in as needed when facing combo decks. I think with 12 blue spells there's enough to pitch to FOW the second game, if not I might decide to put hibernation sliver in the sideboard for this purpose.
3. To go with the taxes aspect of the deck we are running wastelands to make their spells even harder to cast rather than opt for Mutavaults for more power.
Also another intangible this deck has I believe is that it's sort of budget considering that while cards like Chalice, FOW, and Cavern of Souls are pretty expensive comparably it's not as much as many other Legacy decks out there running a lot of very expensive dual and fetch lands.
I estimate you can build the main deck for about $1200 and then after you buy the FOWs for the sideboard it'll come to about $1500. Admittedly this is more than merfolk, but it's goddamn slivers and you know slivers are much cooler than merfolk. Plus all the expensive cards here are staples that will be useful in many other competitive decks and casual tribal decks you'd want to run.
Ok, so here it is:
Creatures (28)
4x galerider sliver
4x predator sliver
4x sinew sliver
4x muscle sliver
4x crystalline sliver
4x mirror entity
4x phyrexian metamorph
Spells (8)
4x thorn of amethyst
4x chalice of the void
Lands (24)
4x cavern of souls
4x sliver hive
4x unclaimed territory
4x mana confluence
4x ancient tomb
4x wasteland
sideboard (15)
4x force of will
2x hunter sliver
2x harmonic sliver
3x sorcerous spyglass
3x surgical extraction
1x homing sliver
Matchups:
Admittedly I haven't got to test this deck a whole lot, but the decks I think will give this list the most trouble is dredge, dragon stompy, or eldrazi aggro. My biggest fear first game would be running into something like Blood Moon or Back to Basics. Terminus would also be a nightmare if that resolved when playing against miracles. If Toxic Deluge comes out from a sideboard that would also be a potential insta-wipe for this deck. Fiery confluence can be a wipe too if I'm not careful and can't get a couple lords down before they cast it.
Force of will is there in the sideboard to not only save my creatures from getting wiped off the board like this, but also to prevent some really fast combo deck like reanimator or storm going off first turn before I can lay down my disruption pieces. I could of went the counters slivers route, but I just didn't feel like protecting against the rare situation of my opponent getting to play first and then managing to kill me turn 1 was worth the constant card disadvantage of putting FOW in mainboard. I'd rather have something more permanent on the board that can really shut them down. I don't think just FOWing one spell is going to be enough to stop most combos. After all, most just protect it with something like duress anyway.
What's nice is that if a Phyrexian Metamorph resolves as a copy of thorn or in a pinch as a 0 set copy of chalice I can potentially have something that cannot be targeted. So even if they start siding in cards to destroy my artifacts the copies will be protected from further disruption by Crystalline Sliver.
True name nemesis is a card I can also see giving me problems. I can copy it with my Phyrexian Metamorph and then still get all the benefits of slivers when I activate my Mirror Image, but I don't have a neat way of getting rid of it.
I think this deck is going to be relatively even vs most other aggro decks. I'm kind of banking on Mirror Entity in match 1 and then hunter slivers coming out in match 2 and 3 being the factors that'll give me the slight upper hand. Against Affinity I don't see what they can really do against me game 2 and 3 if I lay a harmonic sliver down and then start going ham on everything they got.
However against something like Eldrazi aggro I see this deck being at a disadvantage. I have a lot of things geared towards stopping smaller 1 drops that are extremely common and then taxing out more expensive spells like show and tell, but then big creatures getting accelerated out I really have nothing for. It's not impossible to win, but I see being at a disadvantage.
Combo and to a lesser degree control is where I think this deck will really shine. Against storm I can go ancient tomb into a chalice on 1 or a thorn of amethyst first turn. Then second turn copy thorn with phyrexian metamorph. Pop out 2 slivers a turn the next couple rounds and then GG.
Against control like Grixis or 4c I'm just going to keep taxing them out of the game while wastelanding their 4 color monstrosity to disrupt their manabase. Swords to plowshares and lightning bolts will be completely useless. Counterspells will just get rid of my artifacts unless they can wasteland cavern of souls away. They almost have to deal with everything I have to be able to win. One of the primary advantages of this deck is that it resists disruption and that's pretty much control's entire gameplan.
Now a control style strategy in the form of indirect control through blood moon or ensnaring bridge or even something that can get around my chalice like hymn to tourach or plainswalkers these are things this deck won't deal with well. So I have a sideboard package of sorcerous spyglass, FOW, and harmonic sliver to give myself a better chance in these kinds of matchups.
Tl;dr: I believe counter slivers can be improved upon ditching the counter magic at least mainboard and going a more D&T/Affinity route with chalice + thorn and phyrexian metamorph to copy it and also by adding in Mirror Entity as a finisher.
The matches I think this will do well against are combo (except for dredge) and control. I think aggro will be roughly even except for Eldrazi aggro where I'll be at a disadvantage and Affinity where I'll be at an advantage. I also think mono red prison will be a poor matchup, but I think post sideboard is winnable.
Competitively I believe this list is viable. I've put a ton of work into agonizing over every little piece and every inclusion and exclusion on this deck taking every interaction in legacy into account to make the best sliver deck I can possibly make.
So what are you guy's thoughts on this? Is this deck good? Is it terrible? Is it an improvement over counter slivers? Can it compete at tier 1 or at least tier 2? Can we bring slivers into competitive or is the whole practice just a waste of time?
I'd really like to know you guy's thoughts on all this.
The ability to pump and creature tupe is underrated.