Solidarity is a variant of High Tide with a long and rich history in Legacy. It was one of the early dominant decks in Legacy following the transition away from the joint ban list with Type 1 (it was actually initially developed for Type 1.5 prior to the split when it was jokingly known as "Strictly worse than Dragon"). Solidarity in its initial form was primarily designed by David Gearhart, morphing from what must be termed a "casual" budget deck into one of the most feared decks of the newly formulated Legacy format. For more on the early developement of the deck, I recommend reading Finn's interview with Gearhart, published on this very site back in 2007.
Solidarity in its initial dominance looked something like the list at right, but it was far from a one-hit wonder (Search SCG's decklist database here for a broad selection of top placing examples of the deck) While Solidarity was powerful, it had a number of weaknesses. First and foremost, it was weak to early pressure and was poorly suited to the acceleration of the speed of the format represented by printings like Tarmogoyf. Second, it was recognized to be quite difficult to pilot. As the format continued to develop with new printings, Solidarity fell from popularity as the difficulty of the deck was no longer justified by its strength relative to the field. For years, the deck rested in obscurity with only the occasional return to the spotlight (For example, this Top4 in 2012). With the printing of Dig Through Time, however, Solidarity has returned to the public consciousness.
Strategic Overview
Solidarity is a storm-based combo deck built around High Tide and the rather obscure Reset. Due to the constraints imposed by Reset, the deck has a unique restriction in construction -- every non-land needs to be castable at instant speed. For the early turns, Solidarity just uses its cantrips to string together land drops and sculpt its hand. After significant sculpting or at the threat of death from the opponent, Solidarity will attempt to combo off on the opponent's turn, using card draw and untap effects (in conjunction with High Tide) to generate storm to fuel a lethal Brain Freeze. From there, the kill can either be something like Blue Sun's Zenith for X=1 or the opponent's own draw spell (assuming you went off in response to a draw spell such as Brainstorm, Ponder, or Treasure Cruise) or draw step (assuming you can afford to let them finish out their turn).
One way to consider Solidarity is that it is a control deck which always has the last answer of "kill you" in response to a threat it otherwise cannot handle. Whether that threat is a lock piece such as Counterbalance or a game-ending play such as a lethal Lightning Bolt, Solidarity can respond and use that moment to end the game. This gives a strategic superiority to Solidarity in the face of interaction because it means that Solidarity is always representing a virtual counterspell of "Kill you".
Solidarity is very different from Spiral Tide and other other High Tide variants. Those decks lean heavily on the power of cards like Merchant Scroll, Candelabra of Tawnos, and Time Spiral while in contrast Solidarity's unique constraints force it to forsake these for the power of Reset and the maneuverability and flexibility of being instant speed. Solidarity is the one combo deck that does not ask "Will I live through another of turn my opponent's turn?", but rather "Will I die right now?".
Modern Revival
Solidarity's recent revival has been entirely on the back of this card. Because it does not run Time Spiral, Solidarity is free to fully indulge in its graveyard as a resource (Unlike the more prevalent Spiral Tide). This means that Solidarity gets to harness Dig Through Time's powerful delve ability (and to a lesser extent, Snapcaster Mage's method of recursion). Dig Through Time is arguably the most powerful card selection spell printed since Brainstorm and it dramatically increases both the speed and consistency of the modern iterations of Solidarity in comparison to the versions of the deck seen in its heyday.
So what does the Solidarity of today look like? There is not a "stock" list for the reborn Solidarity, but they are already beginning to converge upon certain features. I have included my own list alongside two well-publicized lists in the spoiler below.
A Note on Lands
Solidarity desperately needs to make land drops in the early game, but a higher land count negatively impacts the deck's consistency when actually trying to execute the combo. Different lists address this problem in different ways. My list featured above trimmed lands with the understanding that early cantrips would need to be used aggressively to find and string together land drops. Longmore and Lossett both went the opposite direction and erred towards more lands by going with 19 (compare this to my 17). Despite such wildly differing land totals, the lists are each designed with a healthy respect for the importance of making land-drops, and different lists vary with as many as 20 lands or as few as 17.
Each list also features a large number of fetchlands. This is for three reasons:
They stock the graveyard to fuel delve for Dig Through Time at minimal cost.
As you use fetchlands in multiples, the thinning effect can actually become quite significant due to this deck's plan to aggressively draw through its deck. To demonstrate, if my list featured above makes its first 4 land drops with fetchlands, and then attempts to go off on Turn 4, Meditate has a better than 1/3 chance to draw all spells due to only 9 land remaining in the deck. This effect is only magnified as the game continues and additional lands are fetched out of the deck.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Man this seems like a really fun version of high tide. All I can think of now is brainfreeze in response to tendrils
well that alone doesnt do it because they have to draw a card
You're both right. If another chain-based combo deck (by this I mean Ritual-based combo, Spiral Tide, and even certain Glimpse of Nature-fueled hands of Elves) tries to go off after Solidarity has some lands in play, it is typically very easy for Solidarity to ride their storm count and make only a couple plays to complete the kill. If they are in the process of killing you that turn however and you don't catch them with a draw spell/effect on the stack, then you need to also get them to draw a card. The way most current lists do this is by wishing for a Blue Sun's Zenith to aim at the opponent for X=1 after the Brain Freeze, but historically lists sometimes killed with something as innocuous as Words of Wisdom
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
how often do you find that you just go infinite and blue sun them out, and are there any advantages to that over brain freeze? i guess easiest to name is against SnS or other emrakul decks
I am very interested in this. Going to my first SCG even in a few weeks and will be packing this. What are some of the tips and trick of the current meta I should be ready for?
I am very interested in this. Going to my first SCG even in a few weeks and will be packing this. What are some of the tips and trick of the current meta I should be ready for?
ill try to say what i can, but i have no tournament experience so this will all be merely theory. my only actually experience with solidarity was losing a win and in for day 2 round 8 to feline longmore at gpnj. which prompted me to build the deck myself.
-one of the biggest things i can think of is identifying when your opponent may have emrakul in their deck. this changes the way in which you want the game to unfold, as you need to be able to fully go off the same way the old high tide decks would, decking your opponent with blue suns zenith as opposed to just getting there with brainfreeze.
-the next thing i can think of is leveraging common knowledge of high tide. Remember that it affects your opponents lands as well. remember that you dont have to tell them that, and i dont even consider it an "ethical" thing. thats like saying you need to remind an opponent whenever they take pain off of caves of koilis for black while you have an urborg in play. didnt mean to get off topic, but what im trying to say here is remember your opponent may have access to extra mana, but also expect some portion of people to not realize that.
-the most important part, where i cannot help, is knowing when and how to wish for your singleton matchup cards in the SB. remember not to bring these one ofs in post board just because theyre good in the matchup, you need to be able to wish for them. my personal example of this.
game 2 against longmore, i had countertop and enough attackers on board to be lethal on the next turn. she resolves cunning wish. this lets her know that there isnt a 3 drop in the top 3 cards of my library, so she safely goes and grabs wipe away. untaps, passes turn. then, on my turn, she casts wipe away, knowing i dont have a 3 drop on top (side not, remember split second still triggers counterbalance). i make the logical move to replay top, and she responds with reset, high tide, dig, and proceeds to go off from a very unfavorable state.
what im trying to say here is i dont think you should ever think that you're locked out, because access to 3 cunning wishes gives you near infinite customizable gameplans out of the sideboard.
-back to general tips, goldfish. goldfish goldfish goldfish. the reason you dont see a lot of successful tide players is because they UID and get stuck playing miracles in the X-X-1 bracket. know you combo inside and out. know how to do it quickly. know what you need to beat a counterspell. know what you need to beat 2 counterspells. learn what to do to beat 5 counterspells, and then realize you should just call a judge because you're opponent likely stacked their deck.
-respect the untapped red source. many decks have started MB REB... which is a one mana counterspell
thats about it, may edit if i think of anything else. cheers and good luck!
I am very interested in this. Going to my first SCG even in a few weeks and will be packing this. What are some of the tips and trick of the current meta I should be ready for?
The biggest thing I would say to do is to play this against real opponents as much as is humanly possible. So much of this deck's power and play are wholly based upon the interaction with the opponent, that I do not think you'll experience worthwhile returns after more than ~3 fishbowled hands.
Now, the big thing to remember with this deck is that you always have the opportunity for a response. If they play something you can't deal with, killing them with it on the stack is a totally respectable "counter". But it extends past that. Think about what happens if they Flusterstorm you. Your play may just be "Okay, let the storm trigger resolve. Now I'm going to continue to combo on the stack above the flusterstorm until I find a remand to save my spell." The stack with this deck can EASILY get to be naturally 10 spells deep, and learning how to navigate those complex stack wars and sculpt how they play out is a huge part of learning to play the deck successfully (and very often, your "failed combo" verses slower opponents will just have been a way to empty their hand of interaction while you held back a Meditate or Dig Through Time, but this only works if you see that line before even initiating the exchange and play in such a way that they fully expend themselves).
Now, verses decks with Emrakul, you need to ask yourself this: Are they a deck with just one Emrakul, or do they have more? If they only play one or two Emrakul, it is very feasible to just re-combo off above the shuffle trigger. This means you may remand your brain freeze and recast it (or if you don't run remand, counter your real brain freeze, then snapcaster it back) so that you can mill their deck above the shuffle trigger and then USZ for X=1 to kill them. Another option if they just have one Emrakul is to wish for Ravenous Trap in response and make that trigger irrelevant.
If, on the other hand, they are packing the full playset of Emrakul (or at least more than one or two), you have two options. The first is to hard-combo with Blue Sun's Zenith for their entire deck. I think that this is more difficult with Solidarity than people give it credit for -- It's certainly possible, but it's not reliably an option with normal game progression since we do not go recursive like Spiral Tide. The more reliable option in my opinion is this: Cunning Wish in response to the Emrakul trigger to find Surgical Extraction. Surgical out their Emrakul, then let the shuffle trigger resolve, Remand your Brain Freeze (if you do not have sufficient copies still on the stack to mill them), and then kill them. I have found this to be far more reliable, since it is easier for us to draw our deck than to generate 50+ surplus mana to fuel a naturally lethal Zenith. We more likely are just going to be working with 20-30 extra mana at the end.
Oh, and I suppose it's worth noting that the third option is to wish for Zenith and Zenith them for how many cards are left in the library with the shuffle trigger on the stack. Depending on when you hit the Emrakul, it can be a fairly manageable number like 15-20 cards.
One other piece of advice I have for you is to play like you are playing your entire deck, full 75. You will need to think ahead to "What in my deck is the answer, and how many do I have". If you figure that you're going to need double cunning wish to kill them, you might want to be VERY judicious with the third copy, since you are committing the other two to NEEDING to resolve (meaning they would be poor counterbait). Similarly, casting a Dig Through Time may result in some weird decisions. In a recent game, I determined that my kill was just a single brain freeze (no USZ needed) but that my opponent was likely stocked on countermagic and was waiting for the wish to counter. I chose to ignore all the ways to combo deeper in my DTT's 7 and instead grabbed double Remand because I had lethal storm and enough mana to cast wish with double remand to save it from countermagic and I knew I had no snapcasters or other wishes left in my deck, so this wish had to be it. The flipside of this "play the full deck" mentality is that you should be very cognizant on what you are bottoming from DTT and Impulse. You very easily can know the bottom 15-20 cards of your deck, so if you're getting low, you should already be able to know what the next Impulse or Brainstorm is going to find, and this make the difference in a lot of potential lines of play.
EDIT: One final interaction that you should be aware of is that DTT and Impulse both are very reliable ways to "clear your brainstorm" in mid-combo. It's okay that you're effectively seeing less cards off that given impulse or DTT, because chances are that the two lands (or whatever else the chaff was) being exchanged for spells was likely worth it.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I don't know if it helps or not, but part of the reason I went from Remand to Snapcaster is because it made getting the second High Tide resolved a lot faster. Getting the first 2 High Tides to resolve made things a lot easier afterward.
I don't know if it helps or not, but part of the reason I went from Remand to Snapcaster is because it made getting the second High Tide resolved a lot faster. Getting the first 2 High Tides to resolve made things a lot easier afterward.
I think that the second High Tide is very useful if you're going into full engine mode and is crucial if going off on low lands. That being said, I've liked remand for its versatility in navigating the stack and for its ability in the early game to really rob tempo from decks now that the format seems to so often revolve around tapping out for 2CMC threats. The side benefit of being brutally punishing for anyone trying to resolve something expensive is huge (because we'd rather them attempt it twice). Countering a flashbacked spell like Cabal Therapy or Past in Flames for sweet value is sorta relevant, but rather fringe.
Lastly, while snapcaster does share the ability to cheat stormcount with it, I have preferred remand in this function due to it being easier to re-storm over something like an emrakul trigger.
All that aside, I think it's worth pointing out that you're running only a single snapcaster more than me despite running 0 Remand to my 3, so I'm curious if you're still cold on Remand if you aren't comparing it directly to snapcaster?
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Getting into the deck so I have kind of a newbie question but I'll ask it.
Agains Show and Tell decks (basically anything that plays reshuffle effects like Emrakul) : the path to go is Blue Sun I get it but can I do the following :
- cast a million draw spells during their turn
- wish for brain freeze
- cast brain freeze an mill their deck + emrakul shuffle trigger on the stack
- wish for blue sun
- cast blue sun for 1 so thei can't draw and proceed to lose
I'm asking it because I'm having issues generating enough mana to cast a blue sun for enough to make them draw their deck.
Is it possible or the does Emrakul's reshuffle happen before all the brain freeze copies resolve?
Thanks !
It doesn't quite work the way you want. Because each brain freeze copy resolves separately, there is the opportunity for triggered abilities and casting spells in between each of them resolving. As soon as one brain freeze flips emrakul, the emrakul trigger is put on the stack to resolve or be responded to.
Now, with that in mind, Emrakul is still not the end of the world, it just makes our lives a little harder. In general, Blue Sun's Zenith is not going to be effective/reliable for killing Sneak Show because we don't normally generate the same obscene amounts of mana as Spiral Tide. Instead, we need to combo a bit harder than normal. When you go for the kill, you're going to want a lethal storm count, brain freeze, cunning wish, and any of Snapcaster mage, Cunning wish, or Remand.
First, aim your brain freeze at the opponent and have them start resolving one brain freeze at a time (this is technically the way it's always supposed to be done, but most of the time you can shortcut it verses other decks because nobody has any effects that matter from the milling). I recommend using a die to count down each storm copy resolving. When one of the freezes hits emrakul, you're going to have them pause. At this point, you need to make a judgment call. If they had an anomalous draw, you may have them low enough in their deck to shortcut by wishing for USZ and making them draw the amount left in the deck. If not, you should wish for Surgical Extraction and exile all of their emrakuls. At this point, you can either:
Wish again, this time for ravenous trap to invalidate the shuffle. Freecast ravenous trap and then let the stack resolve normally.
Let the shuffle occur and the stack resolve down normally, then Snapcaster your brain freeze.
With very weird draws, you can also just remand and recast your brain freeze in response to each emrakul trigger and then kill them with all their emrakuls in their yard with triggers trapped on the stack (this does involve eventually wishing for USZ though).
So it's definitely a bit more work to kill sneak show, but you should be able to do it even without generating the ~50 mana for a straight USZ kill.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I've just built this deck, and plan to play it starting on the first of january, as that's the first legacy night I'll be able to borrow force of wills. I'm planning on playing a slightly modified version of this list from Feline Longmore:
The changes I plan on making are as follows:
Sideboard: -1 Brain Freeze, +1 ?
Maindeck: I'd like to find a way to squeeze in the 4th force of will
Goldfishing I've gotten fairly fast at the actions of going through the combo, and usually can kill with a blue sun's for 50+ with no problems. Going to put this together on cockatrice and start testing there as well, but I don't really expect people to play along when they figure out what I'm up to
In any case, my biggest questions at the moment are a) If there are any cards that can be shaved for a 4th force of will, b) what to add to the sideboard over the second brain freeze, and c) the sideboard plan for reanimator.
In terms of sideboarding, I've talked to Feline, and she said from her experience with this version of the deck, she's still usually going -1 high tide post board to wish for in case of a surgical, and apparently the vendilion cliques come in in almost every matchup, usually at the expense of flusterstorms if they aren't relevant, or a few 1-ofs like a single impulse. She also brings in blue sun's zenith, as getting a wish surgicalled would be bad, and she has no problem getting 50+ mana. This is why I want to cut the second brain freeze, as it was supposed to be brought in in case of surgical on the wishes. She did also say that she's played a lot more with spiral tide than this though, so it's possible she hasn't figured it all out quite as well as she knows that deck (though I still value her opinion far above my own). Other than impulse I'm also curious as to other peoples thoughts as what to cut to bring in cliques. I think Feline mentioned snap, but that would be the one area where I think I have a different opinion than hers, as I've found snap quite helpful in a lot of my lines for re-using snapcaster mages or untapping enough to cantrip into more high tides before I reset (to net extra mana).
I think that's about it for now, excited to provide feedback as I start testing, and hopefully learn a lot from this thread. Also, apparently another guy at my LGS is building this, I really don't want to run into the mirror. Seems like a nightmare.
TL;DR What is the sideboard plan for reanimator? I've talked to a friend about it and we aren't quite sure as to several aspects, like whether or not wish for surgical is too slow, or if wipe away comes in.
Edit: Also would like some tips for playing against UWR countertop, seems like a real rough matchup between counterbalance, pyroblast and force of will.
Double edit: What do you guys think about misdirection as a trump to counter wars? Eg high tide, force of will, something else, pyroblast, make their pyroblast target their force. Or make a thoughtseize target them or something.
From what I gather from the coverage, if you're going to MD all 4 force of will, you should at least SB a Misdirection. The main reason you want a wishable Will is for the chance at converting the wish into a counter without any additional mana.
The second Brain Freeze is primarily there to SB in if you fear an extraction effect on your wishes.
Vs. reanimator, your wishable extraction is nice, and remember you don't really have to start comboing until you're facing lethal. Reanimator aims to start going for the kill on turn 3. You can sometimes successfully combo off with 3 Islands. If you can disrupt for a couple of turns, you should be alright. Disruption can come from your counter suite, Vendilion Clique, or even 3 SB'd Leyline of the Void in their place.
Remember that your sideboard plan is to keep most of your wishes accessible, and bring in the 2nd Brain Freeze to beat Extirpate effects on your wishes. Feline didn't get too much time on camera, but what I feel from her list is that you're only swapping 3-4 SB cards per match -- I could be wrong on that, but it looks feasible.
If you're going to shave a card for the 4th FoW, I'd pick Dig Through Time #3, or run the 18 land package.
I do like the idea of sideboarding a misdirection, however as I said in my post (and as Feline was considering when I asked her about it), I don't think the second brain freeze is necessary at all - we have no problem generating enough mana to blue sun's for lethal, so I just bring that in in case of surgical on the wishes.
I am curious about the not comboing until facing lethal part, because if at all possible I feel like it's better to go off before they draw 7-14 cards looking for force of wills. My main problem there is that at that point, wishing for an extraction might be too late if they've already gone for it, so I'm wondering if it isn't better to bring it in to have the chance of drawing it.
Not trying to just disagree with everything you said, mind you, just trying to figure this all out.
Hey guys, I'm thinking about running this for SCG Philly, and I have a couple of questions? How do we handle Leyline of Sanctity if it shows up? Besides main deck Red Blasts, standard counter magic and Surgical, is there anything else I need prior knowledge of how to handle?
Hey guys, I'm thinking about running this for SCG Philly, and I have a couple of questions? How do we handle Leyline of Sanctity if it shows up? Besides main deck Red Blasts, standard counter magic and Surgical, is there anything else I need prior knowledge of how to handle?
Leyline is answerable with a bounce spell. Most commonly this means cunning wish for the bounce spell first, but depending on your build or SB plan, this might be with part of you normal non-wish suite for the game. I also haven't seen a non-enchantress deck packing Leyline in quite some time, so you probably do not need to worry overly much about it.
The biggest thing I would say about the deck is practice the living daylights out of it. I was accustomed to piloting Spiral Tide and a variety of stack-intensive decks before picking this up, and I still was very out of my element in the early testing.
The first issue was time. To put it in perspective: While I wouldn't say I'm a fast player, I am accustomed to finishing all 15 timed rounds at GPs without going to time. My first tournament with this deck saw half of my rounds go to time (I only had one draw in those matches, but I would argue that going into turns at all is not excusable). Some of this was the decision trees when comboing; some of it was opponents being a second slower on each decision when they have priority due to unfamiliarity with the match-up, and some of it was the overload of relevant interaction and options provided by the deck -- you pretty much always have a potential response, and the concept of a "turn" is radically different with this deck compared to "normal" decks.
The second issue is the nature of the gameplay itself. As I mentioned, you pretty much always have a potential response. This means that you need to get into the mental state where you think of the stack as your primary mode of interaction. Yes, you can counter their spell with Force or something similar, but you can also "counter" it by ending the game before it resolves. You might also decide to just combo off in response because if they try to stop you, that Misdirection in your hand becomes the 2-for-2 dream scenario instead of just a 1-for-2 FoW substitute. Realizing that you can go off under pressure with as little as High Tide + Impulse in hand is also something that takes getting used to -- especially grasping what constitutes "pressure" enough to necessitate such a gutsy combo.
If I may, do you have a build in mind? Some of the other advice is very build dependent. (For example, my 17 land build requires extremely aggressive cantrip use to hit land drops -- this means utterly ignoring "good cards" and "combo pieces" in early cantrip decisions, where as other builds will not need to use cantrips in quite the same way early on, but will also have to adjust the weight they place on things like Meditate later on).
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Have played Spiral Tide but am trying this out because I like the instant speed "save yourself from death" element to it. I pretty much understand the deck and how to play it but I do want to verify something just to make sure I have this right because I do sometimes have trouble with the rules, especially when things get complicated.
We have a fair bit of Emrakul in our meta so I'm going to be doing a lot of mill and extract in order to Blue Sun for game afterwards, or mill them if I have enough storm count. Problem with this deck from what I can tell is it doesn't normally generate storm and mana, especially mana, the way Spiral Tide does.
So here's my question.
When I attempt to go off an hit an Emrakul, at that point in time I Cunning Wish for Surgical as Emrakul hits the yard and the return to library trigger is on the stack, and remove the Emrakuls. At this point in time, the cards in the graveyard still go back into the library, correct? After they do, I continue the Brain Freeze storm trigger, if any are left and then continue "going off" until I either have enough mana to Blue Sun for game or enough Storm to Snapcaster Brain Freeze out of the graveyard.
Just want to make sure I have the play sequence down right and I'm not missing anything.
Also, how tough are the Emrakul matchups? They are obviously more difficult to storm through. How much more? Are these generally bad matchups or not too bad? With Spiral Tide there is almost always enough mana to just make them draw their whole deck right off the bat.
Yeah emrakul trigger goes over the copies of brain freeze/cards get shuffled in after you surgical all their emrakuls and then you finish resolving the rest of the brain freeze copies. Another way if you play remand is to go remand original brain freeze with the emrakul trigger on the stack, recast brain freeze, and try to get them low enough on cards that you can blue sun them for lethal without the emrakul trigger(s) ever resolving.
Against sneak and show I don't like our odds as they are faster than us and have way more powerful cards as well as emrakuls being a pain sometimes with their built in brainfreeze protection. Against 12post I like the matchup as they run maybe 3 eldrazi but if we get enough time we can reasonably blue sun them for lethal without ever needing a brain freeze since snapcasting high tide is a very big mana game whereas prior to snapcaster generating the 50+ mana to blue sun them for lethal was difficult without a lot of lands now we can reasonably do it with 4-5 with snapcaster on high tide making this deck just as good for generating large amounts of mana in comparison to spiral tide since reset costs 2 and can net some ridiculous amounts of mana with 2+ tides active. Just be wary of crop rotation for bojuka bog to eat your graveyard and always respond to crop rotation and not the bojuka bog trigger as we have answers to crop rotation aplenty but typically no one runs stifle/trickbind.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
A few comments on the list:
I'm experimenting with the mainboard Freeze on the urgings of a friend. I'm not super thrilled that it's in place of a third remand, but unfortunately remand is one of the flex spots in here. The sideboard slot this frees up is currently occupied by the last copy of Flusterstorm, but that's also up for debate (I've been considering Polymorphist's Jest and Spell Snare in that spot specifically)
Pearl Lake Ancient is mostly the result of theory-crafting to reduce the volatility of the Miracles match-up. Miracles has been a positive match-up anyway, but the margins are thin enough that I do not trust them to hold up when the deck is being piloted by a specialist. This is meant to give us a trump card, but I do not have sufficient testing with it to say if it is worth it.
I'm on Stroke of Genius over USZ right now because I've found I'm almost certainly dead if I cast it and it doesn't connect, but on the chance I can't hit with it and am still live, I'd rather have it in the yard to snapcaster back than in the deck. This difference is so miniscule that I do not think there's much of a real difference in practice, but I figured I'd at least explain it. Run whichever of USZ/Stroke that you like and don't stress over which it is.
My more stock list prior to the brain freeze tweak is this:
I think what you'll notice is that I'm pretty comfortable with most of the card selections in my build and have been mostly tweaking a card here and there rather than going through huge sweeping changes with each iteration. I would say the biggest thing I'm still considering is the Vendilion Clique sideboard plan used by Feline. I've shied away due to a general aversion to introducing so many "dead" hits when comboing, but there are certainly situations when they would be good.
EDIT: @LBS: did you see this post? I think it addresses the emrakul issue you're wondering about, but if not, I can try to clear up anything it leaves wanting.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
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ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
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Thanks for all of the information guys. The list I am looking to run is essentially your stock list @ExpiredRascals. My biggest concern is lack of interactive practice. I've been goldfishing a fair amount while I decide if I play it, but I don't have anyone to test it with. I've tried Cockatrice a bit for practice, but people often leave once I start comboing, haha. The more I've thought about, it seems best to have additional mana floating when you cast Reset in case you have to respond to your opponent? It's these situations that I'm likely going to overlook from goldfishing. Regardless, any additional thoughts or recomendations would be appreciated.
Thanks for all of the information guys. The list I am looking to run is essentially your stock list @ExpiredRascals. My biggest concern is lack of interactive practice. I've been goldfishing a fair amount while I decide if I play it, but I don't have anyone to test it with. I've tried Cockatrice a bit for practice, but people often leave once I start comboing, haha. The more I've thought about, it seems best to have additional mana floating when you cast Reset in case you have to respond to your opponent? It's these situations that I'm likely going to overlook from goldfishing. Regardless, any additional thoughts or recomendations would be appreciated.
In general, you'd like to have spare mana at all times to keep yourself at maximum maneuverability with stuff like remand. The truth however is that you'll often find yourself in situations where you may need to combo off with very slim or no margins. This means that you will typically need to determine what you can afford to play around -- if you can't beat something, you need to play like they don't have it (be careful not to dismiss something as "can't beat" too easily though). I've combo'd out before where I at no point was vulnerable to double spell pierce, and I've also combo'd out with no ability to beat even a single daze -- it all depends on what you can afford at that game state.
Kensai, when is the tournament you're preparing for? I might be able to help you test on trice -- shoot me a PM and we can try to set up a time.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Quote from votan »
:ER:, you suck as a hero
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Also known as Reset High Tide
History
4 Brainstorm
2 Opt
2 Peek
4 Impulse
2 Flash of Insight
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
4 Remand
1 Twincast
4 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
2 Brain Freeze
12 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Disrupt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Evacuation
4 Hydroblast
1 Meditate
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Twincast
Solidarity in its initial dominance looked something like the list at right, but it was far from a one-hit wonder (Search SCG's decklist database here for a broad selection of top placing examples of the deck) While Solidarity was powerful, it had a number of weaknesses. First and foremost, it was weak to early pressure and was poorly suited to the acceleration of the speed of the format represented by printings like Tarmogoyf. Second, it was recognized to be quite difficult to pilot. As the format continued to develop with new printings, Solidarity fell from popularity as the difficulty of the deck was no longer justified by its strength relative to the field. For years, the deck rested in obscurity with only the occasional return to the spotlight (For example, this Top4 in 2012). With the printing of Dig Through Time, however, Solidarity has returned to the public consciousness.
Strategic Overview
Solidarity is a storm-based combo deck built around High Tide and the rather obscure Reset. Due to the constraints imposed by Reset, the deck has a unique restriction in construction -- every non-land needs to be castable at instant speed. For the early turns, Solidarity just uses its cantrips to string together land drops and sculpt its hand. After significant sculpting or at the threat of death from the opponent, Solidarity will attempt to combo off on the opponent's turn, using card draw and untap effects (in conjunction with High Tide) to generate storm to fuel a lethal Brain Freeze. From there, the kill can either be something like Blue Sun's Zenith for X=1 or the opponent's own draw spell (assuming you went off in response to a draw spell such as Brainstorm, Ponder, or Treasure Cruise) or draw step (assuming you can afford to let them finish out their turn).
One way to consider Solidarity is that it is a control deck which always has the last answer of "kill you" in response to a threat it otherwise cannot handle. Whether that threat is a lock piece such as Counterbalance or a game-ending play such as a lethal Lightning Bolt, Solidarity can respond and use that moment to end the game. This gives a strategic superiority to Solidarity in the face of interaction because it means that Solidarity is always representing a virtual counterspell of "Kill you".
Solidarity is very different from Spiral Tide and other other High Tide variants. Those decks lean heavily on the power of cards like Merchant Scroll, Candelabra of Tawnos, and Time Spiral while in contrast Solidarity's unique constraints force it to forsake these for the power of Reset and the maneuverability and flexibility of being instant speed. Solidarity is the one combo deck that does not ask "Will I live through another of turn my opponent's turn?", but rather "Will I die right now?".
Modern Revival
So what does the Solidarity of today look like? There is not a "stock" list for the reborn Solidarity, but they are already beginning to converge upon certain features. I have included my own list alongside two well-publicized lists in the spoiler below.
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Remand
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
9 Island
1 Gut Shot
1 Snap
1 Wipe Away
1 Repeal
1 Echoing Truth
1 Misdirection
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Meditate
2 Turnabout
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Brain Freeze
3 Cunning Wish
3 Dig Through Time
3 Flusterstorm
3 Force of Will
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
4 Meditate
4 Opt
4 Reset
2 Snap
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Brain Freeze
1 Dig Through Time
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Rebuild
1 Snap
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Turnabout
1 Wipe Away
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
3 Dig Through Time
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
2 Flusterstorm
1 Remand
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Scalding Tarn
11 Island
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Hydroblast
2 Brain Freeze
1 Flusterstorm
1 Snap
2 Propaganda
1 Rebuild
1 Wipe Away
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Turnabout
1 Dig Through Time
A Note on Lands
Solidarity desperately needs to make land drops in the early game, but a higher land count negatively impacts the deck's consistency when actually trying to execute the combo. Different lists address this problem in different ways. My list featured above trimmed lands with the understanding that early cantrips would need to be used aggressively to find and string together land drops. Longmore and Lossett both went the opposite direction and erred towards more lands by going with 19 (compare this to my 17). Despite such wildly differing land totals, the lists are each designed with a healthy respect for the importance of making land-drops, and different lists vary with as many as 20 lands or as few as 17.
Each list also features a large number of fetchlands. This is for three reasons:
Card Selections
Coming soon!
Previous Threads and Other Links
The original MTGS Primer (circa 2005) and its discussion thread
Solidarity Primer and Thread on The Source
The original Solidarity thread on the Source (circa 2005)
GP New Jersey Deck Tech with Feline Longmore
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MODERN
GRIXIS FAERIES
FISH
NAYA BURN
STANDARD
RABBLE RED
E D H
OCEAN MASTER LORTHOS
Daretti's House of Artifacts AND LAND DESTRUCTION
SIDISI VALUE
well that alone doesnt do it because they have to draw a card
You're both right. If another chain-based combo deck (by this I mean Ritual-based combo, Spiral Tide, and even certain Glimpse of Nature-fueled hands of Elves) tries to go off after Solidarity has some lands in play, it is typically very easy for Solidarity to ride their storm count and make only a couple plays to complete the kill. If they are in the process of killing you that turn however and you don't catch them with a draw spell/effect on the stack, then you need to also get them to draw a card. The way most current lists do this is by wishing for a Blue Sun's Zenith to aim at the opponent for X=1 after the Brain Freeze, but historically lists sometimes killed with something as innocuous as Words of Wisdom
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U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
ill try to say what i can, but i have no tournament experience so this will all be merely theory. my only actually experience with solidarity was losing a win and in for day 2 round 8 to feline longmore at gpnj. which prompted me to build the deck myself.
-one of the biggest things i can think of is identifying when your opponent may have emrakul in their deck. this changes the way in which you want the game to unfold, as you need to be able to fully go off the same way the old high tide decks would, decking your opponent with blue suns zenith as opposed to just getting there with brainfreeze.
-the next thing i can think of is leveraging common knowledge of high tide. Remember that it affects your opponents lands as well. remember that you dont have to tell them that, and i dont even consider it an "ethical" thing. thats like saying you need to remind an opponent whenever they take pain off of caves of koilis for black while you have an urborg in play. didnt mean to get off topic, but what im trying to say here is remember your opponent may have access to extra mana, but also expect some portion of people to not realize that.
-the most important part, where i cannot help, is knowing when and how to wish for your singleton matchup cards in the SB. remember not to bring these one ofs in post board just because theyre good in the matchup, you need to be able to wish for them. my personal example of this.
game 2 against longmore, i had countertop and enough attackers on board to be lethal on the next turn. she resolves cunning wish. this lets her know that there isnt a 3 drop in the top 3 cards of my library, so she safely goes and grabs wipe away. untaps, passes turn. then, on my turn, she casts wipe away, knowing i dont have a 3 drop on top (side not, remember split second still triggers counterbalance). i make the logical move to replay top, and she responds with reset, high tide, dig, and proceeds to go off from a very unfavorable state.
what im trying to say here is i dont think you should ever think that you're locked out, because access to 3 cunning wishes gives you near infinite customizable gameplans out of the sideboard.
-back to general tips, goldfish. goldfish goldfish goldfish. the reason you dont see a lot of successful tide players is because they UID and get stuck playing miracles in the X-X-1 bracket. know you combo inside and out. know how to do it quickly. know what you need to beat a counterspell. know what you need to beat 2 counterspells. learn what to do to beat 5 counterspells, and then realize you should just call a judge because you're opponent likely stacked their deck.
-respect the untapped red source. many decks have started MB REB... which is a one mana counterspell
thats about it, may edit if i think of anything else. cheers and good luck!
The biggest thing I would say to do is to play this against real opponents as much as is humanly possible. So much of this deck's power and play are wholly based upon the interaction with the opponent, that I do not think you'll experience worthwhile returns after more than ~3 fishbowled hands.
Now, the big thing to remember with this deck is that you always have the opportunity for a response. If they play something you can't deal with, killing them with it on the stack is a totally respectable "counter". But it extends past that. Think about what happens if they Flusterstorm you. Your play may just be "Okay, let the storm trigger resolve. Now I'm going to continue to combo on the stack above the flusterstorm until I find a remand to save my spell." The stack with this deck can EASILY get to be naturally 10 spells deep, and learning how to navigate those complex stack wars and sculpt how they play out is a huge part of learning to play the deck successfully (and very often, your "failed combo" verses slower opponents will just have been a way to empty their hand of interaction while you held back a Meditate or Dig Through Time, but this only works if you see that line before even initiating the exchange and play in such a way that they fully expend themselves).
Now, verses decks with Emrakul, you need to ask yourself this: Are they a deck with just one Emrakul, or do they have more? If they only play one or two Emrakul, it is very feasible to just re-combo off above the shuffle trigger. This means you may remand your brain freeze and recast it (or if you don't run remand, counter your real brain freeze, then snapcaster it back) so that you can mill their deck above the shuffle trigger and then USZ for X=1 to kill them. Another option if they just have one Emrakul is to wish for Ravenous Trap in response and make that trigger irrelevant.
If, on the other hand, they are packing the full playset of Emrakul (or at least more than one or two), you have two options. The first is to hard-combo with Blue Sun's Zenith for their entire deck. I think that this is more difficult with Solidarity than people give it credit for -- It's certainly possible, but it's not reliably an option with normal game progression since we do not go recursive like Spiral Tide. The more reliable option in my opinion is this: Cunning Wish in response to the Emrakul trigger to find Surgical Extraction. Surgical out their Emrakul, then let the shuffle trigger resolve, Remand your Brain Freeze (if you do not have sufficient copies still on the stack to mill them), and then kill them. I have found this to be far more reliable, since it is easier for us to draw our deck than to generate 50+ surplus mana to fuel a naturally lethal Zenith. We more likely are just going to be working with 20-30 extra mana at the end.
Oh, and I suppose it's worth noting that the third option is to wish for Zenith and Zenith them for how many cards are left in the library with the shuffle trigger on the stack. Depending on when you hit the Emrakul, it can be a fairly manageable number like 15-20 cards.
One other piece of advice I have for you is to play like you are playing your entire deck, full 75. You will need to think ahead to "What in my deck is the answer, and how many do I have". If you figure that you're going to need double cunning wish to kill them, you might want to be VERY judicious with the third copy, since you are committing the other two to NEEDING to resolve (meaning they would be poor counterbait). Similarly, casting a Dig Through Time may result in some weird decisions. In a recent game, I determined that my kill was just a single brain freeze (no USZ needed) but that my opponent was likely stocked on countermagic and was waiting for the wish to counter. I chose to ignore all the ways to combo deeper in my DTT's 7 and instead grabbed double Remand because I had lethal storm and enough mana to cast wish with double remand to save it from countermagic and I knew I had no snapcasters or other wishes left in my deck, so this wish had to be it. The flipside of this "play the full deck" mentality is that you should be very cognizant on what you are bottoming from DTT and Impulse. You very easily can know the bottom 15-20 cards of your deck, so if you're getting low, you should already be able to know what the next Impulse or Brainstorm is going to find, and this make the difference in a lot of potential lines of play.
EDIT: One final interaction that you should be aware of is that DTT and Impulse both are very reliable ways to "clear your brainstorm" in mid-combo. It's okay that you're effectively seeing less cards off that given impulse or DTT, because chances are that the two lands (or whatever else the chaff was) being exchanged for spells was likely worth it.
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I think that the second High Tide is very useful if you're going into full engine mode and is crucial if going off on low lands. That being said, I've liked remand for its versatility in navigating the stack and for its ability in the early game to really rob tempo from decks now that the format seems to so often revolve around tapping out for 2CMC threats. The side benefit of being brutally punishing for anyone trying to resolve something expensive is huge (because we'd rather them attempt it twice). Countering a flashbacked spell like Cabal Therapy or Past in Flames for sweet value is sorta relevant, but rather fringe.
Lastly, while snapcaster does share the ability to cheat stormcount with it, I have preferred remand in this function due to it being easier to re-storm over something like an emrakul trigger.
All that aside, I think it's worth pointing out that you're running only a single snapcaster more than me despite running 0 Remand to my 3, so I'm curious if you're still cold on Remand if you aren't comparing it directly to snapcaster?
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It doesn't quite work the way you want. Because each brain freeze copy resolves separately, there is the opportunity for triggered abilities and casting spells in between each of them resolving. As soon as one brain freeze flips emrakul, the emrakul trigger is put on the stack to resolve or be responded to.
Now, with that in mind, Emrakul is still not the end of the world, it just makes our lives a little harder. In general, Blue Sun's Zenith is not going to be effective/reliable for killing Sneak Show because we don't normally generate the same obscene amounts of mana as Spiral Tide. Instead, we need to combo a bit harder than normal. When you go for the kill, you're going to want a lethal storm count, brain freeze, cunning wish, and any of Snapcaster mage, Cunning wish, or Remand.
First, aim your brain freeze at the opponent and have them start resolving one brain freeze at a time (this is technically the way it's always supposed to be done, but most of the time you can shortcut it verses other decks because nobody has any effects that matter from the milling). I recommend using a die to count down each storm copy resolving. When one of the freezes hits emrakul, you're going to have them pause. At this point, you need to make a judgment call. If they had an anomalous draw, you may have them low enough in their deck to shortcut by wishing for USZ and making them draw the amount left in the deck. If not, you should wish for Surgical Extraction and exile all of their emrakuls. At this point, you can either:
With very weird draws, you can also just remand and recast your brain freeze in response to each emrakul trigger and then kill them with all their emrakuls in their yard with triggers trapped on the stack (this does involve eventually wishing for USZ though).
So it's definitely a bit more work to kill sneak show, but you should be able to do it even without generating the ~50 mana for a straight USZ kill.
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4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
Cantrips
4 Opt
4 Impulse
4 Brainstorm
3 Dig Through Time
4 Meditate
3 Flusterstorm
3 Force of Will
Utility
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cunning Wish
Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
11 Island
1 Pact of Negation
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
2 Brain Freeze
1 Snap
1 Rebuild
1 Wipe Away
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Turnabout
1 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
3 Vendilion Clique
The changes I plan on making are as follows:
Sideboard: -1 Brain Freeze, +1 ?
Maindeck: I'd like to find a way to squeeze in the 4th force of will
Goldfishing I've gotten fairly fast at the actions of going through the combo, and usually can kill with a blue sun's for 50+ with no problems. Going to put this together on cockatrice and start testing there as well, but I don't really expect people to play along when they figure out what I'm up to
In any case, my biggest questions at the moment are a) If there are any cards that can be shaved for a 4th force of will, b) what to add to the sideboard over the second brain freeze, and c) the sideboard plan for reanimator.
In terms of sideboarding, I've talked to Feline, and she said from her experience with this version of the deck, she's still usually going -1 high tide post board to wish for in case of a surgical, and apparently the vendilion cliques come in in almost every matchup, usually at the expense of flusterstorms if they aren't relevant, or a few 1-ofs like a single impulse. She also brings in blue sun's zenith, as getting a wish surgicalled would be bad, and she has no problem getting 50+ mana. This is why I want to cut the second brain freeze, as it was supposed to be brought in in case of surgical on the wishes. She did also say that she's played a lot more with spiral tide than this though, so it's possible she hasn't figured it all out quite as well as she knows that deck (though I still value her opinion far above my own). Other than impulse I'm also curious as to other peoples thoughts as what to cut to bring in cliques. I think Feline mentioned snap, but that would be the one area where I think I have a different opinion than hers, as I've found snap quite helpful in a lot of my lines for re-using snapcaster mages or untapping enough to cantrip into more high tides before I reset (to net extra mana).
I think that's about it for now, excited to provide feedback as I start testing, and hopefully learn a lot from this thread. Also, apparently another guy at my LGS is building this, I really don't want to run into the mirror. Seems like a nightmare.
TL;DR What is the sideboard plan for reanimator? I've talked to a friend about it and we aren't quite sure as to several aspects, like whether or not wish for surgical is too slow, or if wipe away comes in.
Edit: Also would like some tips for playing against UWR countertop, seems like a real rough matchup between counterbalance, pyroblast and force of will.
Double edit: What do you guys think about misdirection as a trump to counter wars? Eg high tide, force of will, something else, pyroblast, make their pyroblast target their force. Or make a thoughtseize target them or something.
The second Brain Freeze is primarily there to SB in if you fear an extraction effect on your wishes.
Vs. reanimator, your wishable extraction is nice, and remember you don't really have to start comboing until you're facing lethal. Reanimator aims to start going for the kill on turn 3. You can sometimes successfully combo off with 3 Islands. If you can disrupt for a couple of turns, you should be alright. Disruption can come from your counter suite, Vendilion Clique, or even 3 SB'd Leyline of the Void in their place.
Remember that your sideboard plan is to keep most of your wishes accessible, and bring in the 2nd Brain Freeze to beat Extirpate effects on your wishes. Feline didn't get too much time on camera, but what I feel from her list is that you're only swapping 3-4 SB cards per match -- I could be wrong on that, but it looks feasible.
If you're going to shave a card for the 4th FoW, I'd pick Dig Through Time #3, or run the 18 land package.
I am curious about the not comboing until facing lethal part, because if at all possible I feel like it's better to go off before they draw 7-14 cards looking for force of wills. My main problem there is that at that point, wishing for an extraction might be too late if they've already gone for it, so I'm wondering if it isn't better to bring it in to have the chance of drawing it.
Not trying to just disagree with everything you said, mind you, just trying to figure this all out.
Leyline is answerable with a bounce spell. Most commonly this means cunning wish for the bounce spell first, but depending on your build or SB plan, this might be with part of you normal non-wish suite for the game. I also haven't seen a non-enchantress deck packing Leyline in quite some time, so you probably do not need to worry overly much about it.
The biggest thing I would say about the deck is practice the living daylights out of it. I was accustomed to piloting Spiral Tide and a variety of stack-intensive decks before picking this up, and I still was very out of my element in the early testing.
The first issue was time. To put it in perspective: While I wouldn't say I'm a fast player, I am accustomed to finishing all 15 timed rounds at GPs without going to time. My first tournament with this deck saw half of my rounds go to time (I only had one draw in those matches, but I would argue that going into turns at all is not excusable). Some of this was the decision trees when comboing; some of it was opponents being a second slower on each decision when they have priority due to unfamiliarity with the match-up, and some of it was the overload of relevant interaction and options provided by the deck -- you pretty much always have a potential response, and the concept of a "turn" is radically different with this deck compared to "normal" decks.
The second issue is the nature of the gameplay itself. As I mentioned, you pretty much always have a potential response. This means that you need to get into the mental state where you think of the stack as your primary mode of interaction. Yes, you can counter their spell with Force or something similar, but you can also "counter" it by ending the game before it resolves. You might also decide to just combo off in response because if they try to stop you, that Misdirection in your hand becomes the 2-for-2 dream scenario instead of just a 1-for-2 FoW substitute. Realizing that you can go off under pressure with as little as High Tide + Impulse in hand is also something that takes getting used to -- especially grasping what constitutes "pressure" enough to necessitate such a gutsy combo.
If I may, do you have a build in mind? Some of the other advice is very build dependent. (For example, my 17 land build requires extremely aggressive cantrip use to hit land drops -- this means utterly ignoring "good cards" and "combo pieces" in early cantrip decisions, where as other builds will not need to use cantrips in quite the same way early on, but will also have to adjust the weight they place on things like Meditate later on).
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We have a fair bit of Emrakul in our meta so I'm going to be doing a lot of mill and extract in order to Blue Sun for game afterwards, or mill them if I have enough storm count. Problem with this deck from what I can tell is it doesn't normally generate storm and mana, especially mana, the way Spiral Tide does.
So here's my question.
When I attempt to go off an hit an Emrakul, at that point in time I Cunning Wish for Surgical as Emrakul hits the yard and the return to library trigger is on the stack, and remove the Emrakuls. At this point in time, the cards in the graveyard still go back into the library, correct? After they do, I continue the Brain Freeze storm trigger, if any are left and then continue "going off" until I either have enough mana to Blue Sun for game or enough Storm to Snapcaster Brain Freeze out of the graveyard.
Just want to make sure I have the play sequence down right and I'm not missing anything.
Also, how tough are the Emrakul matchups? They are obviously more difficult to storm through. How much more? Are these generally bad matchups or not too bad? With Spiral Tide there is almost always enough mana to just make them draw their whole deck right off the bat.
Thanks for any info you can give me on this.
Against sneak and show I don't like our odds as they are faster than us and have way more powerful cards as well as emrakuls being a pain sometimes with their built in brainfreeze protection. Against 12post I like the matchup as they run maybe 3 eldrazi but if we get enough time we can reasonably blue sun them for lethal without ever needing a brain freeze since snapcasting high tide is a very big mana game whereas prior to snapcaster generating the 50+ mana to blue sun them for lethal was difficult without a lot of lands now we can reasonably do it with 4-5 with snapcaster on high tide making this deck just as good for generating large amounts of mana in comparison to spiral tide since reset costs 2 and can net some ridiculous amounts of mana with 2+ tides active. Just be wary of crop rotation for bojuka bog to eat your graveyard and always respond to crop rotation and not the bojuka bog trigger as we have answers to crop rotation aplenty but typically no one runs stifle/trickbind.
Currently Playing:
Retired
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
2 Remand
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Brain Freeze
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
9 Island
1 Gut Shot
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Wipe Away
1 Repeal
1 Echoing Truth
1 Misdirection
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Meditate
2 Turnabout
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Brain Freeze
A few comments on the list:
I'm experimenting with the mainboard Freeze on the urgings of a friend. I'm not super thrilled that it's in place of a third remand, but unfortunately remand is one of the flex spots in here. The sideboard slot this frees up is currently occupied by the last copy of Flusterstorm, but that's also up for debate (I've been considering Polymorphist's Jest and Spell Snare in that spot specifically)
Pearl Lake Ancient is mostly the result of theory-crafting to reduce the volatility of the Miracles match-up. Miracles has been a positive match-up anyway, but the margins are thin enough that I do not trust them to hold up when the deck is being piloted by a specialist. This is meant to give us a trump card, but I do not have sufficient testing with it to say if it is worth it.
I'm on Stroke of Genius over USZ right now because I've found I'm almost certainly dead if I cast it and it doesn't connect, but on the chance I can't hit with it and am still live, I'd rather have it in the yard to snapcaster back than in the deck. This difference is so miniscule that I do not think there's much of a real difference in practice, but I figured I'd at least explain it. Run whichever of USZ/Stroke that you like and don't stress over which it is.
My more stock list prior to the brain freeze tweak is this:
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Remand
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
9 Island
1 Gut Shot
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Wipe Away
1 Repeal
1 Echoing Truth
1 Misdirection
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Meditate
2 Turnabout
1 Stroke of Genius
2 Brain Freeze
Lastly, this is the slightly older version shown in the OP
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
3 Remand
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 High Tide
4 Reset
2 Snap
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
9 Island
1 Gut Shot
1 Snap
1 Wipe Away
1 Repeal
1 Echoing Truth
1 Misdirection
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Meditate
2 Turnabout
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Brain Freeze
I think what you'll notice is that I'm pretty comfortable with most of the card selections in my build and have been mostly tweaking a card here and there rather than going through huge sweeping changes with each iteration. I would say the biggest thing I'm still considering is the Vendilion Clique sideboard plan used by Feline. I've shied away due to a general aversion to introducing so many "dead" hits when comboing, but there are certainly situations when they would be good.
EDIT: @LBS: did you see this post? I think it addresses the emrakul issue you're wondering about, but if not, I can try to clear up anything it leaves wanting.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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In general, you'd like to have spare mana at all times to keep yourself at maximum maneuverability with stuff like remand. The truth however is that you'll often find yourself in situations where you may need to combo off with very slim or no margins. This means that you will typically need to determine what you can afford to play around -- if you can't beat something, you need to play like they don't have it (be careful not to dismiss something as "can't beat" too easily though). I've combo'd out before where I at no point was vulnerable to double spell pierce, and I've also combo'd out with no ability to beat even a single daze -- it all depends on what you can afford at that game state.
Kensai, when is the tournament you're preparing for? I might be able to help you test on trice -- shoot me a PM and we can try to set up a time.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules