I cannot post it now ad I am on mobile, and will be for a few days.....
Will post it asap, both lists I am running are similar, one has wastes, one not. I am mucking about with the sol lands too, not running too many as the deck needs its green and has no moxen unlike Stax lists.
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Neat thanks. I've been looking for another deck that might overlap less with my existing piles so that I have more decks to play with folks who don't yet play legacy, and this one looks fun.
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Legacy: WRDeath and Taxes UWRMiracles UBTezzerator GTrinity GBWRLoam URLandstill
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
There are loads of little synergies.
Main wins- Ttania + orb, beats with big guys, scooping if they get Stacked to 0/1 leaving you with a massive start in mana.
Smokestacks get paid for well by Titana/Thragtusk and even Garruk's tokens.
Garruk interacts with the men for a win (rare), as a man generator with Smokestack and with static orb/winds.
Wall of roots works with Statics/Freyalise.
There are lifegain effects in the deck for the burn match ups- Thragtusk is remarkably playable in this build, interacting nicely with smokestacks of course. Courser works well with stacks in general anyway, providing CA.
All the modes on the Trading Post are relevant, except life in the control matches- from bringing back expired Tanglewires/Zurans, drawing cards off soon to be worthless 'wires or removing Stax you have ramped to 3 before your upkeep, or even feeding a Stack. It is ideal for the deck. I have never incorporated one into any prison shell before- it normally is a very binary card, but not here.
The deck is part Maverick part Stax, but it is the little cards that glue it together.
Gix gets life and allows you to take out troublesome permanents of your own, as well as acting as a friend for Titania. Once you have them under 3 sphere and have a Thrun down you may not want a Static orb or Freyalise Wind effect, for example. Or you may want to ramp a Stack to 3 and then Sac it before it gets to you. It is a MVP
The hardest matches are ones where people cheat big stuff in- Titania can be great if they show and tell Emmy in, as with 4 lands going you get 5/3 dudes back to swing at them. But in general they are rougher than critter matches.
I use the board to cover the deck's weaknesses- pinpoint removal and people cheating big guys in- hence disk x2 and Song of the dryads- for Show and Tell. The elder and Sage and Stacks allow a load of artifact/enchantment hate + general permanent control.
I found the deck has more Stax pieces than my Humility Stax deck, but plays out faster- suddenly swapping into beats.
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I will be giving this a bash this week in a local event- 5 rounds probably.
Really feel it has potential- strong miracles matches, very decent DnT, burn and always a decent shot at S and T matches make it attractive for my meta. Just got to get a way of sneaking a Scryb Ranger into the 75- forests back to hand and untap seem relevant to many other cards in the deck, and flying is always useful, plus the old-infini blocker trick with Dryad A. Worried about reanimation matches a little, feels odd not having access to my beloved Humilities.
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Just finished picking up the rest of the cards and gave it a whirl. Playing against Death and Taxes (green splash for Teeg and Qasali Pridemage) with this deck resulted in some absurdly hateful and very funny board states on both sides. In other words, excellent games of magic.
Fun deck! So far really liking the Master of the Wild Hunt, and would like to fit another GSZ in. I had also forgotten how much fun Tangle Wire really is. Feels like it might need a little more mana (running 12 Forest, 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Wasteland, 4 ESG). I might try a single Chrome Mox or just adding another basic.
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Legacy: WRDeath and Taxes UWRMiracles UBTezzerator GTrinity GBWRLoam URLandstill
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
I have been working at this a bit.
I have introduced fetches and 2 bayou, giving access to abrupt decay and virtue's ruin/dread? of night
As a consequence I have increased coursers. Freyalise's winds have been strong- at one copy I am thinking of a second. I have added the old Scryb ranger for synergy with restrictive aspects of the deck, infin- arbor blocks and the 2 Coursers. 2 Titania seems strong everytime. I have kept a trading post in but am thing of dropping it.
My acceleration is 3 GSZ into Arbor, one Wall of Roots, 3 Ancient Tomb, 1 City of Traitors,1 Chrome Mox, 1 Mystery Mox- i.e. wavering between Chrome and Diamond.
My CA is 2 Courser, 2 Titania, 1 Thragtusk, 2 Sylvan, 1 Master
My restrictive cards
4 Tanglewire
1 Static orb
1 Freyalise's Winds
4 Wastelands
3 Smokestack
4 Chalice
My lifegainers
1 Zuran Orb
1 Thragtusk
2 Courser
1 Claws of Gix
I have dropped a few cards in my ealier lists- Garruk, ESG etc.
The mix is close to the point I am happy with- the other critters are interchangable and provide a variety of control and offense.
The easiest matches are Miracles and control decks generally. D and T and Maverick are decent enough.
Reanimator is hard, but there are decent board aspects to it. S and T is hard to pin down, despite the difficulty of Emrakul. Sometimes the Emmy comes down and cannot attack due to not being lethal and Titania beats on the return swing being lethal. The deck can be controlled though and my critters can eat Sneak attacks at least if they comedown without red available there and then....
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Sadly played two affinity decks, one my own.
Lost both 2-1, each game going with serve. Did lock one out t1, which was fun.
Played elves, drew one each, stealing game one vs a t4 NO into progenitus, with freyalise winds buying time, and some Thragtusk action too. Won G1 via a disgusting Tanglewire with the winds down.......- I was way ahead on permanents thanks to courser.
Thoughts- plenty of promise.
The board needed work, was clear on that previously, though. Abrupt decay in black does not really cover the deck's weaknesses- seems a bit indulgent. Board sweepers are, in fact, needed- Toxic Deluge for example. Ensnaring Bridge should be in the board somewhere. Maze of ith is worth considering too.
In my case more acceleration was required- getting the mox and sol land count right, which I think it now is.
Was not terribly impressed with GSZ, have cut to 2
Was very impressed with Titania- wow it can be obscene.
Freyalise winds was excellent, and probably better than Stack. Have gone to a 2:2 split- bloody hard for any deck to play around, and can be nuts with Twire or Static, and does not effect me that much with Courser to generate free land drops and cards like Wall of Roots.
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Hello there everyone. I have a particular love for Stax decks, and by extension, Stompy decks. Therefore, I was quite struck by this deck concept. I'd like to contribute some of my thoughts. I apoligize in advance if this gets a little long, I tend to ramble.
Initially, I see two seperate concepts here. The first is a Mono-Green Stax list designed to finish the game quickly with giant green creatures. The second is a value oriented mashup of Mono-Green Stompy and Lands.
The first concept looks something like the following:
Obviously, the plan here is to land City of Solitude/Trinisphere and then slam a huge green threat, ideally NO into Progenitus. There's a lot of tuning that could be done here, notably the inclusion/exclusion of utility lands or other different types of tutorable green monsters.
I'm not sure it's as consistent as other stompy lists, but I certainly enjoy the multiple synergies of a deck like this.
In comparison to the above strategy, an ultra-value list might look like the following:
Instead of trying to jam threats as fast as possible, this deck is instead looking to grind an opponent into the ground over time. Ideally this deck would potentially splash Blue as well for Intuition as it's incredibly powerful in a shell like this.
Let me know what you think about either lists. If you'd like an explanation of either style, or of any particular card choice, please let me know.
I am considering this deck again, now I have acquired more Wastelands- of all the decks I have played in the past year this one feels like the one with most unfinished business.
Anyone worked on it recently?
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Well I ran I last night in an 8 man FNM legacy pod......
I played it terribly, but in FNM spirit we were all on unfamiliar decks, so everybody else did too.
I came a nominal 2nd, though going 2-1
I am running chokes in the board (about 3 blue decks in the field max.), and have the usual dudes, Chalices, 3spheres but also a Static and 2 Freyalise Winds, plus Smokestack.
R1 Merfolk on the draw
G1 Mox D resolves, I have my T1 Sylvan Library Dazed (anticipating this), and my next play- my unusual tech- Freyalise wind - Forced.
I resolve a pretty pointless Static Orb [a card I am looking at dropping as its original purpose was for delver matches that I now have a lot more control over].
I manage to get a GSZ and can use it to kill the Jitte opposite via a reclamation sage into play or I can pitch it to a Chrome mox and cast Titania. I chose the latter, and despite Zuran Orb also resolving and some wastelands/Zurans making a whole bunch of 5/3s I manage to lose. Moral- kill the bloody Jitte. The correct play was to kill the Jitte and then go for Titania later, I was not under that much pressure.
G2 3 chokes in to make trinichoke deck. Abrupt in too, Static Out, some marginal dudes out, a T wire out, the lone Smokestack out, Toxic in (or so I thought), E plague in x2 . He actually punts back to me, choosing to take ten of a pair of Thragtusks instead of chumping with an adept. He was hoping to swing for lethal with 2 x TNN and one adept with counter protection, which does nothing as I am holding (pretty obviously) Abrupt Decay. I had actually failed to board in both Deluges, which almosts costs me as I draw the Scooze I thought I had boarded out. I take the game. One of his Forces was questionable pitching a TNN on a Courser, I think it should not have been my game.
G3 I play quite well, and manufacture a situation where E plague is down, 2 lords are gone, guessing TNNs in hand or land, and 2 mutavaults. Sadly I top deck 6 land and 2 moxen straight and lose.
R2 Tezeret affinity 2-0.
G1 I manage to win on the draw- again I feel I am helped by my opponent. I resolve Chalice after his fast thopter/pest start, Tangle x2 ,3 sphere and eventually Courser, Thragtusk. Courser reveals Wickerbough Elder, and my opponent probably seals the win with a poor attack with Ravager.
G2 Mull aggressively after boarding in two Deluges, Needle, Revoker. T1 Revoker on his drum + chalice for 0 really hurts him, t2 3 sphere seals it.
R3
Maverick.
Close game as I resolve good early stuff and indulge in a lot of mana restriction. Titania comes down, he goes for lethal via a pro green reliquary, and I sac my lands to a Zuran, gaining life and a bunch of 5/3s. To be fair without his attack I would have probably won, and would have had to strike that turn but he made it easy for me by tapping out.
G2 I am in total control of as time is called, him chumping to stay alive.
1-0.
My latest list with proposed changes
Well I play it, but have been parfait-ing recently- I get maybe 18-20 Legacy events a year, 12 are FNM. Generally I find this deck harder to pick up and play than a lot of decks as my instincts are invariably critterless.
Tbh the answer to the 2nd question is no.
Late game GSZ is utility and a t2 way of getting past our own t1 chalice to fetch out a DRS. Early its acceleration into Arbor. Between a couple of GSZ and Moxen plus Sol land the acceleration is there.
I use Sylvan/Fetch/Courser synergy on top of GSZ, so I get a fair chunk of card selection utility. I could use more GSZ, but some of the key high impact cards I want to draw are not critters- eg Tower of the Magistrate, Twire, Choke (board), Toxic Deluge (board) or Zuran orb (for comboing to 5/3s).
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So, I'm looking to get into Legacy from EDH. I've always enjoyed grindy, attrition-based decks that slowly build up resources while stripping away opponents' resources before going over the top with something big and splashy and this deck seems like I really good fit for me. I also have a decent number of the cards for it already, so it helps me stay relatively budget. However, ABU Duals are not happening right now, so I'm thinking about going with an older Mono-Green look.
What are some tips you folks have for a guy looking to dive into Legacy with this lovely, hateful beast? What are match-ups I should be aware of? Anything I should know about piloting the deck? How big of a deal is the black splash? It's to even up some of the deck's rough match-ups, right? How much of the deck changes with the switch from G/b to Mono-Green? Just the lands and black cards? Anything and everything is welcomed and appreciated. =)
For what it's worth, my initial post is a mono green list. You will have to sift through the ideas I was toying with at the time I posted that if you follow it. We do have songs of the dryad and beast within to use if we need those effects without a splash.
Beyond that it's fairly straight forward; soft lock and then a speedy finish is the goal, but it can go grindy if that doesn't fall into place. Natural order into something can end games to. As a side note I would suggest something other then progenitus, worldspine with perhaps, just to avoid having your target stuck in your hand unless you have a discard outlet like masticore.
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For me Tower works against batterskull, which is important as I use 2 Freyalise Winds over Choke main, as my meta is a classic Euro meta- less blue, more maverick and d n t.
It does not hurt to include it.
As a mono G list I would just be happy, but I wanted access to Toxic Deluge post board, and Abrupt decay to tip Miracles.
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I usually just want to see a hand that does something as long as I know what that something is. It helps with decisions; if your hand looks aggro you play it aggro, if it's prison play it prison. That changes game 2 when you have more info and know what you need to do to win, but reasonable I feel is what most decks should be looking for anyway.
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Prior information is key if you can get it.
I always assume chalice for one is ideal vs most decks and will blind lay it.
I always assume a bit of disruption/or acceleration is needed.
If my first play is t3 I reckon most decks will punish you, it is legacy after all. So I am looking to do something t1/2. Does not really matter what unless you know for sure what they are. If they are on storm or such like then hard mull to chalice/3sphere or t wire+ acceleration for it t2/ or t1 sylvan library (still risky with the last 2), but with fairer decks either element is a viable gameplan.
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Well it depends on how much like Chalice Stompy you want the deck, and how much like Stax. As I want the deck to be a Chalice Stompy deck with a Stasis/Stax element (Tanglewire/Freyalise Winds), so adding a cc to four cc spells is a no no. But in a different build without a Stax or Winds type card at 4cc I could see myself main decking it. I could handle taking T wire to 4, perhaps.
As a Humility Stax player myself and a Soldier Stompy player I wanted something that was neither. It actually plays out like Maverick Stasis Stax for me.
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Hey guys. So, I've had relative success with my budget Mono Green Prison deck which I wrote a short primer for last year. The link can be found here. After toying around with the non-budget builds here in the Trinity Green thread I'm feeling I might be on to something.
It's my inkling that mixing elements of both decks together might be the route to go. One thing I'm not liking about Trinity Green is the mana base. Ancient Tomb just straight up hurts you and City of Traitors is not all that dependable. Since we're running green I'm not seeing that it is necessary to go the Sol Land route. We are running green after all. There are two main reason to run Sol Lands, one is for Chalice and two is for if you are running colors such as white that don't have access to ramp.
I am proposing a new mana engine and with this engine you literally have to run a different lock mechanism. It requires a lot of one drops which you obviously cannot run if you are playing with Chalice. The engine is more dependable but the question is: Is it worth it at the loss of Chalice? Both have their pros and cons.
This lock mechanism is dope! First you get Root Maze which you simply cannot run with Chalice. Root Maze single handedly destroys most combo. It also wrecks decks running fetch lands which is about 85-90% of the competitive decks in the meta. Combine this with Winter Orb and you've slowed your opponent to a crawl. This being said like Chalice + Sol Lands you can still drop major turn one threats. Root Maze turn one is crazy, especially followed up with a turn two Sphere of Resistance / Winter Orb.
The mana engine I propose is Arbor Elf plus Wild Growth / Utopia Sprawl. With Green Sun's Zenith, getting this together is not a problem. This is more dependable than Sol Lands and it is NUTS combined with Winter Orb. Once again you don't get Chalice but is that okay? You really do get a nice lock with Root Maze and Winter Orb. Both of which are nuts on their own. Often, this engine you get a turn two Lodestone Golem. The ramp far exceeds Sol Lands and doesn't punish you half as much.
Not totally sold on everything especially the beatz, but the lock mechanisms and mana engine are crazy good.
Masticore is crazy here btw. In particular against D&T and Elves. I cannot express how good he is here in this deck. In particular with the mana / ramp engine. A double Wild Growthed Forest with an Arbor Elf in play shuts down so many weenies. I'm considering adding a third one.
Leatherback Baloth I'm not totally sold on but he has a huge body for three mana. I really want to run Goyfs here but there are not enough cards that go to the graveyard to fuel him. There are a really limited number of sorceries (4), no instants and no fetch lands (because of Root Maze).
Sylvan Safekeeper is crazy here. With Winter Orb and Root Maze out you will notice that you have a ton of lands but they are all tapped with the exception of your Wild Growthed land that you continue to untap under Winter Orb. These lands are perfect for pitching to Safekeeper. I really want to run Titania, Protector of Argoth. Maybe I should add one for synergies.
Thoughts on going this route? I've had really good match ups with D&T.
Cool idea! I have always loved Winter Orb and combining it with the Arbor Elf/Wild Growth devotion-to-green mana engine seems hilarious and awesome.
-1 Dryad Arbor? I can see wanting to Zenith for it sometimes, but drawing it seems bad. It's both slower and more vulnerable than Basic Forest. You're not going to Wild Growth a land that can be Wasted or Lightning Bolted... And it's not like you're running heavy on lands to spare. Also, I'd be terrified to have 2 Dryad Arbor out vs UR Delver only to see them eat Forked Bolt FTfaceplam.
Titania costs 6 under Lodestone and/or Sphere (or more likely 7 when you Zenith for the singleton), which sounds awkward. Also, lands won't be hitting your GY unless you've already Zenithed for Safekeeper. Seems both slow and win-more. Would be amazing if you had more land sacrifice-related things. Otherwise, there are cool things at lower cc. Like Thrun, the Last Troll.
Sphere of Resistance main seems awkward with a lot of other things you want to do, since Root Maze and Winter Orb also restrict your mana and you only really have the Wild Growth engine to compensate. Also, sphere makes your Lodestones and big Zeniths cost even more. Do you find you have the mana for that? I wonder if playing more 3sphere main would be better and then boarding in Spheres (or Thorn of Amethyst) against fast decks.
City of Solitude SB? It's a staple from Green Chalice Stompy and Green Stax, but maybe too hard to cast without Sol mana? Just a thought.
Good point on Dryad Arbor. Definitely cutting one for another Forest.
Yeah, Thrun is tempting. Maybe as a one of. I do actually really like the Leatherback Baloths. I notice that I can afford them at 3 mana and often I feel that if they were another creature such as a four drop I wouldn't have the mana for them. I should probably cut a Baloth to add in Thrun.
I think you are spot on with running 4x Trinishphere and cutting Sphere of Resistance entirely. I do like that I can pitch duplicates to Masticore. This is also true of extra Winter Orbs and Root Mazes. EDIT: I just have been testing the Trinispheres and they are not all that good with all of the one drops in the deck. If I drop a turn two 3Sphere it makes it difficult for me to cast future Wild Growths, etc... The deck was actually works quite nice with Sphere of Resistance.
Am I running the right creature set and am I running enough heavy beatsticks? What about running a werewolf token engine by cutting both Masticores for 2x Master of the Wild Hunt and cutting the 4 Leatherback Baloth for 4x Mayor of Avabruck? I haven't tested Mayor of Avabruck, my hope is that with Root Maze and Winter Orb my opponent shouldn't be casting too many spells thus helping him transform. Or is that just trying to squeeze too many combos into the deck? I do have Green Sun's Zenith to help set it up and I do really like Mayor's casting cost. He's 1 cheaper than Baloth, I just don't know how effective he is as I've never tested him in anything. The Baloth / Masticore set up is better right?
Just a note to say that I have been running Thought-Knot Seer in my build and love it.
Ramping into it is very strong via Sol lands, cities or Mox/GSZ arbor, or DRS so that it consistently hits t2 a reasonable percentage of the time, and always by t3. It solves some issues (Mirran Crusader, interaction vs key cards).
It is not GSZ-able but still offers a lot.
You could argue that its a kop out, making the deck more like an Eldrazi-chalice build, but the fact of the matter is those builds are hugely successful, fast but narrow. By being green (and a hint of black) we get access to a toolbox, life and CA from Thragtusk, Abrupt Decay for counterbalances, DRS and cards like Titania for pseudo wastelocks and 5/3s, making it feel like a different deck, way more grindy. The ability to throw in a card like smokestack or freyalise winds can make the deck grind out over a long period, and don't need to be present in huge amounts to do so.
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Yeah, I'd actually really like to see your list as well drmarkb.
BTW, I've managed to tune my Winter Orb build. I'd like to see the newer more updated Sol Lands builds so that I can test them and see which style is better. Not totally sold that the Winter Orb route is better but I've had really good results with my new build. It just wrecks most combo and D&T match ups have been decent. New changes include cutting Tanglewire, Trinisphere and Jitte for more efficient bombs and I'm really liking it.
Often, I'll get some explosive opening hands such as Forest, Arbor Elf, Root Maze, Natural Order, Elvish Spirit Guide, Wild Growth. Turn one play a Forest, pitch ESG casting Wild Growth, tap Growthed Forest, cast Root Maze then Arbor Elf and pass the turn. Your opponent won't really get a turn but rather a tapped land drop due to Root Maze. Turn two, tap Growthed Forest, untap with Arbor Elf, tap it again Natural Order for Progenitus and follow up with Winter Orb or Sphere of Resistance. Game over. Here's my current list.
What is your current build drmarkb, can you share it with us?
Sure, I am not able to do it now (work) but can show it in full later.
My control elements main deck are chalices, tanglewires (ala AIR or X-stompy decks), some green toolbox stuff off GSZ (a la maverick), a smokestack main and one side(a la stax), wastelands (a la everything) and some wasteland recursion via Titanias (a la....this deck) and a Freyalise' winds (a la this deck), and 3 TKS (a la Eldrazi), abrupt decays.
I can generate some fast mana via the usual sources- DRS x1, GSZ arbor, wall or of roots, scryb r, Moxen, sol lands.
The rest of the deck sort of builds itself- generic dudes for value, abrupt decays.
I will post a full list tomorrow - after work I am FNM-ing (Legacy as it happens, not sure what I am playing, it will depend on what people want to borrow off me and how knackered I am)
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Will post it asap, both lists I am running are similar, one has wastes, one not. I am mucking about with the sol lands too, not running too many as the deck needs its green and has no moxen unlike Stax lists.
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
1 City of traitors
4 wasteland
12 Forest (experimenting with a Forsaken City)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Elven Spirit Guide
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Chalice of the void
4 Tanglewire
2 Static orb
3 Trinisphere
3 Smokestack
1 Freyalise Winds
1 Claws of Gix
1 Wall of Roots
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thrun, the last troll
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
2 Thragtusk
1 Garruk wildspeaker
1 Sylvan library
1 Trading post
2 Titania, Protector of Argoth
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Choke
2 Dismember
1 Gut shot
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Cursed totem
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Nevinyrral's disk
1 spare slot- noxious revival, wheel no 4 etc.
There are loads of little synergies.
Main wins- Ttania + orb, beats with big guys, scooping if they get Stacked to 0/1 leaving you with a massive start in mana.
Smokestacks get paid for well by Titana/Thragtusk and even Garruk's tokens.
Garruk interacts with the men for a win (rare), as a man generator with Smokestack and with static orb/winds.
Wall of roots works with Statics/Freyalise.
There are lifegain effects in the deck for the burn match ups- Thragtusk is remarkably playable in this build, interacting nicely with smokestacks of course. Courser works well with stacks in general anyway, providing CA.
All the modes on the Trading Post are relevant, except life in the control matches- from bringing back expired Tanglewires/Zurans, drawing cards off soon to be worthless 'wires or removing Stax you have ramped to 3 before your upkeep, or even feeding a Stack. It is ideal for the deck. I have never incorporated one into any prison shell before- it normally is a very binary card, but not here.
The deck is part Maverick part Stax, but it is the little cards that glue it together.
Gix gets life and allows you to take out troublesome permanents of your own, as well as acting as a friend for Titania. Once you have them under 3 sphere and have a Thrun down you may not want a Static orb or Freyalise Wind effect, for example. Or you may want to ramp a Stack to 3 and then Sac it before it gets to you. It is a MVP
The hardest matches are ones where people cheat big stuff in- Titania can be great if they show and tell Emmy in, as with 4 lands going you get 5/3 dudes back to swing at them. But in general they are rougher than critter matches.
I use the board to cover the deck's weaknesses- pinpoint removal and people cheating big guys in- hence disk x2 and Song of the dryads- for Show and Tell. The elder and Sage and Stacks allow a load of artifact/enchantment hate + general permanent control.
I found the deck has more Stax pieces than my Humility Stax deck, but plays out faster- suddenly swapping into beats.
Really feel it has potential- strong miracles matches, very decent DnT, burn and always a decent shot at S and T matches make it attractive for my meta. Just got to get a way of sneaking a Scryb Ranger into the 75- forests back to hand and untap seem relevant to many other cards in the deck, and flying is always useful, plus the old-infini blocker trick with Dryad A. Worried about reanimation matches a little, feels odd not having access to my beloved Humilities.
Fun deck! So far really liking the Master of the Wild Hunt, and would like to fit another GSZ in. I had also forgotten how much fun Tangle Wire really is. Feels like it might need a little more mana (running 12 Forest, 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Wasteland, 4 ESG). I might try a single Chrome Mox or just adding another basic.
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
I have introduced fetches and 2 bayou, giving access to abrupt decay and virtue's ruin/dread? of night
As a consequence I have increased coursers. Freyalise's winds have been strong- at one copy I am thinking of a second. I have added the old Scryb ranger for synergy with restrictive aspects of the deck, infin- arbor blocks and the 2 Coursers. 2 Titania seems strong everytime. I have kept a trading post in but am thing of dropping it.
My acceleration is 3 GSZ into Arbor, one Wall of Roots, 3 Ancient Tomb, 1 City of Traitors,1 Chrome Mox, 1 Mystery Mox- i.e. wavering between Chrome and Diamond.
My CA is 2 Courser, 2 Titania, 1 Thragtusk, 2 Sylvan, 1 Master
My restrictive cards
4 Tanglewire
1 Static orb
1 Freyalise's Winds
4 Wastelands
3 Smokestack
4 Chalice
My lifegainers
1 Zuran Orb
1 Thragtusk
2 Courser
1 Claws of Gix
I have dropped a few cards in my ealier lists- Garruk, ESG etc.
The mix is close to the point I am happy with- the other critters are interchangable and provide a variety of control and offense.
The easiest matches are Miracles and control decks generally. D and T and Maverick are decent enough.
Reanimator is hard, but there are decent board aspects to it. S and T is hard to pin down, despite the difficulty of Emrakul. Sometimes the Emmy comes down and cannot attack due to not being lethal and Titania beats on the return swing being lethal. The deck can be controlled though and my critters can eat Sneak attacks at least if they comedown without red available there and then....
Sadly played two affinity decks, one my own.
Lost both 2-1, each game going with serve. Did lock one out t1, which was fun.
Played elves, drew one each, stealing game one vs a t4 NO into progenitus, with freyalise winds buying time, and some Thragtusk action too. Won G1 via a disgusting Tanglewire with the winds down.......- I was way ahead on permanents thanks to courser.
Thoughts- plenty of promise.
The board needed work, was clear on that previously, though. Abrupt decay in black does not really cover the deck's weaknesses- seems a bit indulgent. Board sweepers are, in fact, needed- Toxic Deluge for example. Ensnaring Bridge should be in the board somewhere. Maze of ith is worth considering too.
In my case more acceleration was required- getting the mox and sol land count right, which I think it now is.
Was not terribly impressed with GSZ, have cut to 2
Was very impressed with Titania- wow it can be obscene.
Freyalise winds was excellent, and probably better than Stack. Have gone to a 2:2 split- bloody hard for any deck to play around, and can be nuts with Twire or Static, and does not effect me that much with Courser to generate free land drops and cards like Wall of Roots.
Initially, I see two seperate concepts here. The first is a Mono-Green Stax list designed to finish the game quickly with giant green creatures. The second is a value oriented mashup of Mono-Green Stompy and Lands.
The first concept looks something like the following:
4x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors
3x Wasteland
6x Forest
6x Green/X Fetchlands
2x Dryad Arbor
Ramp(12)
4x Mox Diamond
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
4x City of Solitude
2x Crucible of Worlds
Finishers and Value Creatures(12)
4x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Primeval Titan
1x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Scavenging Ooze
Obviously, the plan here is to land City of Solitude/Trinisphere and then slam a huge green threat, ideally NO into Progenitus. There's a lot of tuning that could be done here, notably the inclusion/exclusion of utility lands or other different types of tutorable green monsters.
I'm not sure it's as consistent as other stompy lists, but I certainly enjoy the multiple synergies of a deck like this.
In comparison to the above strategy, an ultra-value list might look like the following:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Wasteland
2x Forest
2x Taiga
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Green/X Fetchlands
2x Tranquil Thicket
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Mox Diamond
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact Elements(9)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
2x Crucible of Worlds
Value Elements(7)
4x Life from the Loam
3x Punishing Fire
2x Primeval Titan
2x Thragtusk
2x Oracle of Mul Daya
2x Eternal Witness
1x Scavenging Ooze
Instead of trying to jam threats as fast as possible, this deck is instead looking to grind an opponent into the ground over time. Ideally this deck would potentially splash Blue as well for Intuition as it's incredibly powerful in a shell like this.
Let me know what you think about either lists. If you'd like an explanation of either style, or of any particular card choice, please let me know.
Anyone worked on it recently?
I played it terribly, but in FNM spirit we were all on unfamiliar decks, so everybody else did too.
I came a nominal 2nd, though going 2-1
I am running chokes in the board (about 3 blue decks in the field max.), and have the usual dudes, Chalices, 3spheres but also a Static and 2 Freyalise Winds, plus Smokestack.
R1 Merfolk on the draw
G1 Mox D resolves, I have my T1 Sylvan Library Dazed (anticipating this), and my next play- my unusual tech- Freyalise wind - Forced.
I resolve a pretty pointless Static Orb [a card I am looking at dropping as its original purpose was for delver matches that I now have a lot more control over].
I manage to get a GSZ and can use it to kill the Jitte opposite via a reclamation sage into play or I can pitch it to a Chrome mox and cast Titania. I chose the latter, and despite Zuran Orb also resolving and some wastelands/Zurans making a whole bunch of 5/3s I manage to lose. Moral- kill the bloody Jitte. The correct play was to kill the Jitte and then go for Titania later, I was not under that much pressure.
G2 3 chokes in to make trinichoke deck. Abrupt in too, Static Out, some marginal dudes out, a T wire out, the lone Smokestack out, Toxic in (or so I thought), E plague in x2 . He actually punts back to me, choosing to take ten of a pair of Thragtusks instead of chumping with an adept. He was hoping to swing for lethal with 2 x TNN and one adept with counter protection, which does nothing as I am holding (pretty obviously) Abrupt Decay. I had actually failed to board in both Deluges, which almosts costs me as I draw the Scooze I thought I had boarded out. I take the game. One of his Forces was questionable pitching a TNN on a Courser, I think it should not have been my game.
G3 I play quite well, and manufacture a situation where E plague is down, 2 lords are gone, guessing TNNs in hand or land, and 2 mutavaults. Sadly I top deck 6 land and 2 moxen straight and lose.
R2 Tezeret affinity 2-0.
G1 I manage to win on the draw- again I feel I am helped by my opponent. I resolve Chalice after his fast thopter/pest start, Tangle x2 ,3 sphere and eventually Courser, Thragtusk. Courser reveals Wickerbough Elder, and my opponent probably seals the win with a poor attack with Ravager.
G2 Mull aggressively after boarding in two Deluges, Needle, Revoker. T1 Revoker on his drum + chalice for 0 really hurts him, t2 3 sphere seals it.
R3
Maverick.
Close game as I resolve good early stuff and indulge in a lot of mana restriction. Titania comes down, he goes for lethal via a pro green reliquary, and I sac my lands to a Zuran, gaining life and a bunch of 5/3s. To be fair without his attack I would have probably won, and would have had to strike that turn but he made it easy for me by tapping out.
G2 I am in total control of as time is called, him chumping to stay alive.
1-0.
My latest list with proposed changes
5 Forest
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 verdent catacombs
2 wooded foothills
1 tower of the magistrate
1 dryad arbor
2 bayou
2 mox diamond
2 chrome mox (under discussion regarding mox split )
1 zuran orb
2 green sun's zenith
2 sylvan library
1 abrupt decay
4 chalice of the void
4 tangle wire
3 trinisphere
2 freyalise's winds
1 smokestack
1 wall of roots
1 scavenging ooze
2 courser of kruphix
1 reclamation sage
1 wickerbough elder
1 master of the wild hunt
2 titania, protector of argoth
2 thragtusk
1 pithing needle
1 abrupt decay
2 toxic deluge
2 virtue's ruin
2 engineered plague
3 choke
2 phyrexian revoker
1 grafdigger's cage
1 smoketack (can be swapped for more specific meta cards)
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Tbh the answer to the 2nd question is no.
Late game GSZ is utility and a t2 way of getting past our own t1 chalice to fetch out a DRS. Early its acceleration into Arbor. Between a couple of GSZ and Moxen plus Sol land the acceleration is there.
I use Sylvan/Fetch/Courser synergy on top of GSZ, so I get a fair chunk of card selection utility. I could use more GSZ, but some of the key high impact cards I want to draw are not critters- eg Tower of the Magistrate, Twire, Choke (board), Toxic Deluge (board) or Zuran orb (for comboing to 5/3s).
What are some tips you folks have for a guy looking to dive into Legacy with this lovely, hateful beast? What are match-ups I should be aware of? Anything I should know about piloting the deck? How big of a deal is the black splash? It's to even up some of the deck's rough match-ups, right? How much of the deck changes with the switch from G/b to Mono-Green? Just the lands and black cards? Anything and everything is welcomed and appreciated. =)
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
Beyond that it's fairly straight forward; soft lock and then a speedy finish is the goal, but it can go grindy if that doesn't fall into place. Natural order into something can end games to. As a side note I would suggest something other then progenitus, worldspine with perhaps, just to avoid having your target stuck in your hand unless you have a discard outlet like masticore.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
It does not hurt to include it.
As a mono G list I would just be happy, but I wanted access to Toxic Deluge post board, and Abrupt decay to tip Miracles.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I always assume chalice for one is ideal vs most decks and will blind lay it.
I always assume a bit of disruption/or acceleration is needed.
If my first play is t3 I reckon most decks will punish you, it is legacy after all. So I am looking to do something t1/2. Does not really matter what unless you know for sure what they are. If they are on storm or such like then hard mull to chalice/3sphere or t wire+ acceleration for it t2/ or t1 sylvan library (still risky with the last 2), but with fairer decks either element is a viable gameplan.
As a Humility Stax player myself and a Soldier Stompy player I wanted something that was neither. It actually plays out like Maverick Stasis Stax for me.
It's my inkling that mixing elements of both decks together might be the route to go. One thing I'm not liking about Trinity Green is the mana base. Ancient Tomb just straight up hurts you and City of Traitors is not all that dependable. Since we're running green I'm not seeing that it is necessary to go the Sol Land route. We are running green after all. There are two main reason to run Sol Lands, one is for Chalice and two is for if you are running colors such as white that don't have access to ramp.
I am proposing a new mana engine and with this engine you literally have to run a different lock mechanism. It requires a lot of one drops which you obviously cannot run if you are playing with Chalice. The engine is more dependable but the question is: Is it worth it at the loss of Chalice? Both have their pros and cons.
This lock mechanism is dope! First you get Root Maze which you simply cannot run with Chalice. Root Maze single handedly destroys most combo. It also wrecks decks running fetch lands which is about 85-90% of the competitive decks in the meta. Combine this with Winter Orb and you've slowed your opponent to a crawl. This being said like Chalice + Sol Lands you can still drop major turn one threats. Root Maze turn one is crazy, especially followed up with a turn two Sphere of Resistance / Winter Orb.
The mana engine I propose is Arbor Elf plus Wild Growth / Utopia Sprawl. With Green Sun's Zenith, getting this together is not a problem. This is more dependable than Sol Lands and it is NUTS combined with Winter Orb. Once again you don't get Chalice but is that okay? You really do get a nice lock with Root Maze and Winter Orb. Both of which are nuts on their own. Often, this engine you get a turn two Lodestone Golem. The ramp far exceeds Sol Lands and doesn't punish you half as much.
Here's my untuned build:
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Leatherback Baloth
2x Masticore
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Umezawa's Jitte
Lock Mechanisms:
4x Winter Orb
4x Root Maze
2x Trinisphere
2x Sphere of Resistance
2x Tangle Wire
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
2x Arbor Elf
3x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
Land:
2x Dryad Arbor
12x Forest
Not totally sold on everything especially the beatz, but the lock mechanisms and mana engine are crazy good.
Masticore is crazy here btw. In particular against D&T and Elves. I cannot express how good he is here in this deck. In particular with the mana / ramp engine. A double Wild Growthed Forest with an Arbor Elf in play shuts down so many weenies. I'm considering adding a third one.
Leatherback Baloth I'm not totally sold on but he has a huge body for three mana. I really want to run Goyfs here but there are not enough cards that go to the graveyard to fuel him. There are a really limited number of sorceries (4), no instants and no fetch lands (because of Root Maze).
Sylvan Safekeeper is crazy here. With Winter Orb and Root Maze out you will notice that you have a ton of lands but they are all tapped with the exception of your Wild Growthed land that you continue to untap under Winter Orb. These lands are perfect for pitching to Safekeeper. I really want to run Titania, Protector of Argoth. Maybe I should add one for synergies.
Thoughts on going this route? I've had really good match ups with D&T.
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
-1 Dryad Arbor? I can see wanting to Zenith for it sometimes, but drawing it seems bad. It's both slower and more vulnerable than Basic Forest. You're not going to Wild Growth a land that can be Wasted or Lightning Bolted... And it's not like you're running heavy on lands to spare. Also, I'd be terrified to have 2 Dryad Arbor out vs UR Delver only to see them eat Forked Bolt FTfaceplam.
Titania costs 6 under Lodestone and/or Sphere (or more likely 7 when you Zenith for the singleton), which sounds awkward. Also, lands won't be hitting your GY unless you've already Zenithed for Safekeeper. Seems both slow and win-more. Would be amazing if you had more land sacrifice-related things. Otherwise, there are cool things at lower cc. Like Thrun, the Last Troll.
Sphere of Resistance main seems awkward with a lot of other things you want to do, since Root Maze and Winter Orb also restrict your mana and you only really have the Wild Growth engine to compensate. Also, sphere makes your Lodestones and big Zeniths cost even more. Do you find you have the mana for that? I wonder if playing more 3sphere main would be better and then boarding in Spheres (or Thorn of Amethyst) against fast decks.
City of Solitude SB? It's a staple from Green Chalice Stompy and Green Stax, but maybe too hard to cast without Sol mana? Just a thought.
Good point on Dryad Arbor. Definitely cutting one for another Forest.
Yeah, Thrun is tempting. Maybe as a one of. I do actually really like the Leatherback Baloths. I notice that I can afford them at 3 mana and often I feel that if they were another creature such as a four drop I wouldn't have the mana for them. I should probably cut a Baloth to add in Thrun.
I think you are spot on with running 4x Trinishphere and cutting Sphere of Resistance entirely. I do like that I can pitch duplicates to Masticore. This is also true of extra Winter Orbs and Root Mazes. EDIT: I just have been testing the Trinispheres and they are not all that good with all of the one drops in the deck. If I drop a turn two 3Sphere it makes it difficult for me to cast future Wild Growths, etc... The deck was actually works quite nice with Sphere of Resistance.
Am I running the right creature set and am I running enough heavy beatsticks? What about running a werewolf token engine by cutting both Masticores for 2x Master of the Wild Hunt and cutting the 4 Leatherback Baloth for 4x Mayor of Avabruck? I haven't tested Mayor of Avabruck, my hope is that with Root Maze and Winter Orb my opponent shouldn't be casting too many spells thus helping him transform. Or is that just trying to squeeze too many combos into the deck? I do have Green Sun's Zenith to help set it up and I do really like Mayor's casting cost. He's 1 cheaper than Baloth, I just don't know how effective he is as I've never tested him in anything. The Baloth / Masticore set up is better right?
EDIT:
Also, is Sol Lands + Chalice better?
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
Ramping into it is very strong via Sol lands, cities or Mox/GSZ arbor, or DRS so that it consistently hits t2 a reasonable percentage of the time, and always by t3. It solves some issues (Mirran Crusader, interaction vs key cards).
It is not GSZ-able but still offers a lot.
You could argue that its a kop out, making the deck more like an Eldrazi-chalice build, but the fact of the matter is those builds are hugely successful, fast but narrow. By being green (and a hint of black) we get access to a toolbox, life and CA from Thragtusk, Abrupt Decay for counterbalances, DRS and cards like Titania for pseudo wastelocks and 5/3s, making it feel like a different deck, way more grindy. The ability to throw in a card like smokestack or freyalise winds can make the deck grind out over a long period, and don't need to be present in huge amounts to do so.
BTW, I've managed to tune my Winter Orb build. I'd like to see the newer more updated Sol Lands builds so that I can test them and see which style is better. Not totally sold that the Winter Orb route is better but I've had really good results with my new build. It just wrecks most combo and D&T match ups have been decent. New changes include cutting Tanglewire, Trinisphere and Jitte for more efficient bombs and I'm really liking it.
Often, I'll get some explosive opening hands such as Forest, Arbor Elf, Root Maze, Natural Order, Elvish Spirit Guide, Wild Growth. Turn one play a Forest, pitch ESG casting Wild Growth, tap Growthed Forest, cast Root Maze then Arbor Elf and pass the turn. Your opponent won't really get a turn but rather a tapped land drop due to Root Maze. Turn two, tap Growthed Forest, untap with Arbor Elf, tap it again Natural Order for Progenitus and follow up with Winter Orb or Sphere of Resistance. Game over. Here's my current list.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Leatherback Baloth
2x Lodestone Golem
2x Masticore
1x Progenitus
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Natural Order
Disruption: 12
4x Root Maze
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Winter Orb
Mana / Ramp:
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
1x Dryad Arbor
12x Forest
Currently Playing:
Burning Reanimator
Eldrazi and Taxes
Bug Threshold
Enchantress
Dead Guy Ale
Combo Zombies
Pyromancer Pox
Sure, I am not able to do it now (work) but can show it in full later.
My control elements main deck are chalices, tanglewires (ala AIR or X-stompy decks), some green toolbox stuff off GSZ (a la maverick), a smokestack main and one side(a la stax), wastelands (a la everything) and some wasteland recursion via Titanias (a la....this deck) and a Freyalise' winds (a la this deck), and 3 TKS (a la Eldrazi), abrupt decays.
I can generate some fast mana via the usual sources- DRS x1, GSZ arbor, wall or of roots, scryb r, Moxen, sol lands.
The rest of the deck sort of builds itself- generic dudes for value, abrupt decays.
I will post a full list tomorrow - after work I am FNM-ing (Legacy as it happens, not sure what I am playing, it will depend on what people want to borrow off me and how knackered I am)