Well I guess I'll do a very brief history here as it will probably make some card choices a bit clearer and show how this isn't tuned yet. There are still some remanents of earlier ideas.
So brief history. I had this idea for a combo of young Frankenstein and burning reanimator. I didn't like the all in push of burning and wanted the young pyro game plan with the dega colours because of what it adds. I was envisioning a YP deck that could reanimate and storm. Once I realized I was forcing a lot of bad cards and still trying to be all ini cut wish and the storm idea with it. This immediately made the deck stronger and allowed me to focus more on entomb options. The following is close to what I top 8'ed with today with some minor changes.
I wanted deathmark in my board and forgot to make that change for the tournament. Also I built the deck heavy black/red with the intention of playing blood moon. I feel the correct plan is to have an enlightened tutor package in the board which would aid in the recurring nightmare plan I was hoping for.
Questions and comments appreciated.
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This is just evil. It takes on different aspects of multiple high-level decks. I would probably take this to a tournament, changing a bit to match my style a bit more.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
That it does. Somehow I was winning the attrition war against junk depths with 1 land.
I will say that the SFM + equipment package is one of the strengths of this over the grixis build. Instead of siding into more pressure you are able to simply make weaker creatures more threatening.
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I had considered fatigue but honestly just wanted more burn spells. Not that I expected to ever entomb for it, but it is 2 spells otherwise.
Inferno Titan is surprisingly devastating and a fast clock. It's castable as well. Being fairly removal light it helps that most creatures have a toughness of 1 or 2. I think death and taxes highlights the choice fairly well too. Elsh norn is a board wipe there but loses to karakas. Also sometimes the life can't be paid. I think that should highlight the main reasons for it.
Faithless looting. I don't want to entomb for it. It really just needs to filter cards that aren't useful. Originally I was playing 4 with the goal of playing a squee. I suspect its clear the route I ended up going.
Lingering souls. I agree. I just wanted to play it. I originally had it in the main as a way to generate some threats since I felt very light there. Also flyers with equipment felt attractive. But in the end I do agree that it should be anything else.
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Not at all actually, although it depends is the real answer. Elesh norn is a viable cut for example, but in the end there are really only 3 bad bob reveals. 3 of 60, Those are still good odds at missing. I also play bob alongside FoW.
The draw to burn was that it goes to the face. I wanted more burn in the deck and firebolt was the space saving compromise since it is 2 spells as I will never entomb for it. Dark blast had crossed my mind, but like I was saying, I like that burn can go to the face.
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Cleaned up the mana base a little. Trying vindicate in the main in place of some poor flashback choices. Also going to try out the e tutor idea in the board. Should be playing this, Friday. Hopefully I'll get some more game feedback on the ideal path to take.
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I ended up winning the tournament yesterday. The mana base fix was a welcome change and easily the most notable. Not losing to price of progress and wasteland was great and the extra land seemed to make a difference. Sideboard changes also seemed improved. The enlightened tutor plan did seem fine. Goblin bombardment seemed solid actually. I didn't not play recurring nightmare at all so still unsure of it.
Opponent wise it was odd, but telling. I faced 2 red decks. Naturally the slower one was easier, but the faster one seemed to need Iona. This is of note as it basically confirms my combo matchup. I know I can beat these kinds decks but they seem to need a specific roll out. This will probably make me adjust the sideboard again.
Ajani Vengeant has been found so I can try it out. I've heard a few people over the years express how powerful this card seems and yet those same players will not touch the card. Well I have deck with its colours ready to go and seemingly desiring it. I am suspecting that a game where I don't want liliana is a game I want ajani.
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I feel like I have gotten to the point where the deck is feeling tight and the "*" is a highlight of that. Looting is easily better for working on a plan where batterskull is just good. Also I listed a short board as those cards seem to be the for sure ones. It has also been through the last few games that dark confidant seems to be a wasted slot. I do still want orim's chant or silence available even as a mise.
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Very original idea! What a breath of fresh air in a Forum that I've found very stale for a while. I'm looking forward to further developments!
My only criticisms are that I find 18 lands a bit light, and that I'm surprised Batterskull was relegated to SB. I feel like I'd sooner remove a piece of removal than take it out. This is my initial point of view, however; I haven't actually tried the deck yet.
Goblin bombardment was actually in the sideboard as a 1 of. I liked that it took advantage of the tokens and was a way for me to play "one more burn spell" that I was after. Even the games I did have it in felt like win more.
Batterskull has become a theoretical choice right now. Jitte fulfills the role of many cards and is also very castable. With that in mind batterskull is a bad top deck when I don't have a SFM. It may even be right to make it another jitte. In the end having batterskull sit in my hand and be uncastable with no way to return it to my deck has brought this decision on.
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I love vindicate. I find the draw to vindicate is that it can hit land. Elesh norn can win games on its own just as Iona can. Both lose to karakas. Within this deck the versatility is more important then being uncounterable. That said it can support 2 decays easily as is.
As an aside I am debating the merit of loam and retrace spells as board options.
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It's not that it's clunky, it's more that I don't think it's necessary game one. I had rip in my own board so I'm not really worried about it. I actually considered the possibility of cutting the reanimation package for that very combo. That combo isn't very broken especially compared to the reanimator plan so it seemed more beneficial to board into a fairer deck with better answers.
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I totally love the idea. Some time ago I was tinkering with a deck along similar lines - more reanimator/grave-oriented one, though. I will post it here, maybe someone will find it somehow helpful.
Here I try to utilize the tokens to the fullest with the help of Dread Returns, Elesh and Anger.
Again, the direction is a bit different, but I think there are similarities.
Your build reminds me of young Frankenstein since it is grixis. The draw to this idea for me is that the deck can do "broken things" game 1 and ignore the graveyard completely game 2. It really is hard for other decks to deal with the broken/fair gameplan.
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Another first place finish with the deck. This time I faced a variety of decks: tezzerator, burn, elves, TES, and belcher with my only loss being against first round tezzerator due to no action being drawn. I have other deck ideas I want to pursue still but I am just really loving this deck.
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I actually feel the SFM plan helps play alongside YP. In the grixis build there is a need to side into more creatures and play the fairer tempo plan. So while I lose on cantrips I gain on already having that grindier creature plan in the main which frees up board space. I also feel that the small equipment package helps turn tokens and other "lesser" creatures into legitimate threats.
I will fully acknowledge a more off the top play without out blue, but it also makes the deck proactive. You are the aggressor searching for the appropriate plan to win. The off the top approach also lends itself to playing good cards as a way to mitigate a bad top deck.
Much like chalice of the void I ignore rip. I still want it in my board. It affects the deck if you want it to.
Abrupt decay was considered, but it also doesn't stop me from losing to a karakas or moat or other such card. That is why I opted for an actual catch all. As you correctly pointed out it's a fair deck that can have broken plays. Also I would suggest that the addition of decay and cutting of white raises the question of "why not play castlevania?"
The transformational board isn't cheeky. It's also what young Frankenstein does since it is a tempo deck with a reanimator package. I can do the same here and in fact do. It is the games that I am playing that are shaping my board though. There haven't been many holes yet so it is quite open. Even on that front I had cut liliana this Friday for a third looting and return of batterskull.
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I can ignore rip though as I am main deck transformational already and can ignore it completely game 2-3 if desired. Rip is really only hindering the reanimation plan and that's minimized. DRS can still effectively wear equipment.
This isn't tempo at all otherwise I would have a reason to run wasteland right there.
Could I counter argue that bolt kills an opposing DRS if I don't have decay in hand? Otherwise it seems you are just saying every deck has at least one bad matchup.
In the end I'm still tinkering anyway. I really wanted lily and even considered ajani vengeant. At this point I'm just going to keep jamming the deck. It has vastly improved from the first iteration so something right is happening.
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Got third. I guess losing to consecutive marit lages will do that. Sideboard seems to be getting better. And just as a highlight for me was this run: hand has a lot going on, but the YP plan seems to take the most advantage of it. YP gets dealt with so we look to the SFM plan which got countered. Proceed to take it home with entomb and reanimate. It was a great feeling to have so many levels of attack. And more so for my sake:
Wurmcoil was never sided in. Casualties was worth the slot. Bobs only sided in once and I died before they activated. Feel like I need some middle ground between e tutor plan and "good stuff"
May as well ask it here as well:
Iona vs sire of insanity, which one and why?
In my head I think I can justify cutting Iona for sire since it should act as a theoretical Iona for all colours, the downside it loses to top decks and has no evasion.
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Won another tourny with this. Little disappointed that I lost to consecutive top decks from an omni-tell player. Moving forward however I think I may play this again tomorrow. I think this will be the sideboard.
Well I suppose it's official, leylines on the chopping block. I feel like in the end I only wanted them against storm and glass cannon decks and I feel that space can be better utilized. Looks like I may have been right in the beginning, enlightened tutor tool box activate. I think making it a little more deadguy ale like post board is the plan.
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So brief history. I had this idea for a combo of young Frankenstein and burning reanimator. I didn't like the all in push of burning and wanted the young pyro game plan with the dega colours because of what it adds. I was envisioning a YP deck that could reanimate and storm. Once I realized I was forcing a lot of bad cards and still trying to be all ini cut wish and the storm idea with it. This immediately made the deck stronger and allowed me to focus more on entomb options. The following is close to what I top 8'ed with today with some minor changes.
4 deathrite shaman
1 bloodghast
1 grave Titan
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
1 inferno Titan
2 stoneforge mystic
1 firebolt
1 faithless looting
3 liliana of the veil
4 entomb
4 cabal therapy
4 gitaxian probe
4 reanimate
4 lightning bolt
1 dread return
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
4 bloodstained mire
3 marsh flats
2 scrubland
2 swamp
1 taiga
1 bayou
1 plateau
Bad Board
2 vindicate
1 wurmcoil engine
3 lightning helix
3 dark confidant
3 leyline of sanctity
1 Iona, shield of emeria
1 ancient grudge
1 lingering souls
I wanted deathmark in my board and forgot to make that change for the tournament. Also I built the deck heavy black/red with the intention of playing blood moon. I feel the correct plan is to have an enlightened tutor package in the board which would aid in the recurring nightmare plan I was hoping for.
Questions and comments appreciated.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
I will say that the SFM + equipment package is one of the strengths of this over the grixis build. Instead of siding into more pressure you are able to simply make weaker creatures more threatening.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Inferno Titan is surprisingly devastating and a fast clock. It's castable as well. Being fairly removal light it helps that most creatures have a toughness of 1 or 2. I think death and taxes highlights the choice fairly well too. Elsh norn is a board wipe there but loses to karakas. Also sometimes the life can't be paid. I think that should highlight the main reasons for it.
Faithless looting. I don't want to entomb for it. It really just needs to filter cards that aren't useful. Originally I was playing 4 with the goal of playing a squee. I suspect its clear the route I ended up going.
Lingering souls. I agree. I just wanted to play it. I originally had it in the main as a way to generate some threats since I felt very light there. Also flyers with equipment felt attractive. But in the end I do agree that it should be anything else.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I think Firebolt is simply too expensive, and there isn't much that Lightning Bolt cannot already handle. I too would suggest Crippling Fatigue or Darkblast over Firebolt. I feel that the potential to Entomb for Crippling Fatigue/Darkblast may be more valuable than the extra two points of burn.
The draw to burn was that it goes to the face. I wanted more burn in the deck and firebolt was the space saving compromise since it is 2 spells as I will never entomb for it. Dark blast had crossed my mind, but like I was saying, I like that burn can go to the face.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Opponent wise it was odd, but telling. I faced 2 red decks. Naturally the slower one was easier, but the faster one seemed to need Iona. This is of note as it basically confirms my combo matchup. I know I can beat these kinds decks but they seem to need a specific roll out. This will probably make me adjust the sideboard again.
Ajani Vengeant has been found so I can try it out. I've heard a few people over the years express how powerful this card seems and yet those same players will not touch the card. Well I have deck with its colours ready to go and seemingly desiring it. I am suspecting that a game where I don't want liliana is a game I want ajani.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
4 young pyromancer
2 stoneforge mystic
1 elesh norn
1 grave Titan
1 bloodghast
4 gitaxian probe
4 cabal therapy
4 entomb
4 reanimate
4 lightning bolt
3 vindicate
1 dread return
1 umezawa's jitte
2 faithless looting *
2 liliana of the veil
4 badlands
3 marsh flats
1 bayou
2 scrubland
1 plateau
1 plains
1 swamp
1 mountain
3 leyline of the void
1 ancient grudge
1 Iona
1 pithing needle
1 batterskull *
I feel like I have gotten to the point where the deck is feeling tight and the "*" is a highlight of that. Looting is easily better for working on a plan where batterskull is just good. Also I listed a short board as those cards seem to be the for sure ones. It has also been through the last few games that dark confidant seems to be a wasted slot. I do still want orim's chant or silence available even as a mise.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Very original idea! What a breath of fresh air in a Forum that I've found very stale for a while. I'm looking forward to further developments!
My only criticisms are that I find 18 lands a bit light, and that I'm surprised Batterskull was relegated to SB. I feel like I'd sooner remove a piece of removal than take it out. This is my initial point of view, however; I haven't actually tried the deck yet.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Batterskull has become a theoretical choice right now. Jitte fulfills the role of many cards and is also very castable. With that in mind batterskull is a bad top deck when I don't have a SFM. It may even be right to make it another jitte. In the end having batterskull sit in my hand and be uncastable with no way to return it to my deck has brought this decision on.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
As an aside I am debating the merit of loam and retrace spells as board options.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
4 Bloodghast
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Anger
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells:28
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Reanimate
1 Quiet Speculation
1 Intuition
3 Dack Fyden
2 Dread Return
3 Badlands
1 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
Here I try to utilize the tokens to the fullest with the help of Dread Returns, Elesh and Anger.
Again, the direction is a bit different, but I think there are similarities.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
-1 bloodghast, +1 stoneforge
-2 vindicate, -1 dread return, +3 Swords to plowshares
put a 4th swords to plowshares in the board
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I will fully acknowledge a more off the top play without out blue, but it also makes the deck proactive. You are the aggressor searching for the appropriate plan to win. The off the top approach also lends itself to playing good cards as a way to mitigate a bad top deck.
Much like chalice of the void I ignore rip. I still want it in my board. It affects the deck if you want it to.
Abrupt decay was considered, but it also doesn't stop me from losing to a karakas or moat or other such card. That is why I opted for an actual catch all. As you correctly pointed out it's a fair deck that can have broken plays. Also I would suggest that the addition of decay and cutting of white raises the question of "why not play castlevania?"
The transformational board isn't cheeky. It's also what young Frankenstein does since it is a tempo deck with a reanimator package. I can do the same here and in fact do. It is the games that I am playing that are shaping my board though. There haven't been many holes yet so it is quite open. Even on that front I had cut liliana this Friday for a third looting and return of batterskull.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
This isn't tempo at all otherwise I would have a reason to run wasteland right there.
Could I counter argue that bolt kills an opposing DRS if I don't have decay in hand? Otherwise it seems you are just saying every deck has at least one bad matchup.
In the end I'm still tinkering anyway. I really wanted lily and even considered ajani vengeant. At this point I'm just going to keep jamming the deck. It has vastly improved from the first iteration so something right is happening.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
3 lightning helix
3 dark confidant
1 Iona
1 wurmcoil engine
1 inferno Titan
1 dark blast
1 marsh casualties
1 ancient grudge
Wurmcoil was never sided in. Casualties was worth the slot. Bobs only sided in once and I died before they activated. Feel like I need some middle ground between e tutor plan and "good stuff"
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Iona vs sire of insanity, which one and why?
In my head I think I can justify cutting Iona for sire since it should act as a theoretical Iona for all colours, the downside it loses to top decks and has no evasion.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
3 lightning helix
1 Iona
1 ancient grudge
1 marsh casualties
2 leyline of sanctity
2 swords to plowshares
1 inferno titan
1 rest in peace
Vindicate continues to be amazing.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord