Death Cultist vs Mogg Fannatic:
The reason why I prefer Mogg Fanatic is when you draw it before combo. When you are able to cast it (via Birds / Tinder Wall / Wild Cantor) Fanatic can kill a lot of creatures like Lackey, Confident, Grim Lavamancer, Noble Hierarch, etc. Death Cultist is easier to cast pre-combo, but almost useless.
Post combo, there is almost no difference but Fanatic is a little bit better if opponent have for instance a Leyline of Sanctity: Fanatic can kill all his creatures then you can attack with a 100/100 Carrion Feeder.
About running a second Reveillark:
I don't think it worth it. The list is already very tight and really, you don't need a second lark. As said before, you can go off around a removal spell by getting first Academy Rector + Viscera Seer + Carrion Feeder + Dryad Arbor.
Having Body Double or Reveillark in hand:
Once you sac Hulk, get Wild Cantor + 2 Tinder Wall and hard cast the one you have in hand. This is the basic idea. Sure there is situations where 1 Cantor or 1 Tinder Wall is already in grave. Seriously, there is a lot of combinations of creatures you can grab from Hulk trigger that will permit you to still win. Exemple, with Reveillark in hand and 1 Tinder Wall in grave:
1. Grab Rector + Feeder + Wild Cantor + all Dryads Arbor
2. Rector for Pattern, for second Protean Hulk
3. Tinder Wall + Body Double copying Tinder Wall in grave
4. Hardcast Reveillark. You do not have Mogg Fanatic but you still have an infinite loop to sac for Feeder and can get back all your creatures at instant speed. You'll normally win next turn, attacking with your big zombie.
2 Protean Hulk in hand:
Obviously, you can still win via Progenitus, or you can ramp your mana to 7 to hardcast Hulk. You can also use Fauna Shaman or Cabal Therapy to drop Hulk in grave and get a Body Double (possibly via Pattern of Rebirth) and win from it.
You can still win off the main combo with one in hand.
Body Double:
Hulk fetches 2 Feeder, 2 Timber Wall, Wild Cantor, and Mogg.
Hardcast Body, sac to feeder, fetch Revallark and some 1 cmc thing.
Win.
Revallark:
Hulk fetches Feeder and Body Double
Sac Body Double to Feeder, fetching 2 Feeder, Wild Cantor, 2 Tinder, Mogg
Hardcast Revallark, win.
Sorry, I misread the question.
To Xantid: I have been looking at the deck list and I would combo off slightly differently than you say in the OP in the standard situation:
Cast NO, get Hulk. Hulk dies.
Grab Rector, Dryads Arbor, 2 Feeder, and Mogg.
Rector grabs Pattern, grab second Hulk.
Hulk grabs Body Double, ... Same as usual.
Cast NO, get Hulk. Hulk dies.
Grab Rector, Dryads Arbor, 2 Feeder, and Mogg.
Rector grabs Pattern, grab second Hulk.
Hulk grabs Body Double, ... Same as usual.
This method gives you 3 sac dudes instead of 1
That's good except your first Hulk trigger can't get you Mogg Fanatic: Rector is cmc 4, so you just got Rector + Feeder + Seer (+Dryads). You got Mogg Fanatic from the second Hulk's trigger (with Body Double).
It's better to combo out that way if you are in a situation where opponent can still play a removal spell. But most of the time, at the point you go off, you know the way is free: you often have played a Therapy the same turn or you just attacked with Xantid Swarm or opponent is tapped out. As I already said, most of the time opponent will spend removal on your Birds / Dryad Arbor / Xantid Swarm before you go off. If not, you're right, go off that way. I will add this in the Primer under "Important Strategies".
That's good except your first Hulk trigger can't get you Mogg Fanatic: Rector is cmc 4, so you just got Rector + Feeder + Seer (+Dryads). You got Mogg Fanatic from the second Hulk's trigger (with Body Double).
It's better to combo out that way if you are in a situation where opponent can still play a removal spell. But most of the time, at the point you go off, you know the way is free: you often have played a Therapy the same turn or you just attacked with Xantid Swarm or opponent is tapped out. As I already said, most of the time opponent will spend removal on your Birds / Dryad Arbor / Xantid Swarm before you go off. If not, you're right, go off that way. I will add this in the Primer under "Important Strategies".
Ah, good catch. That was a typo. Yes, I recognize you will often know you can go off without fear... But this way hasn't been specifically addressed (as far as I saw) as a legitimate way to go off in general, even though it is strictly superior (so why not be in the habit to just always do it this way?). I think you mentioned it to get around removal when you have a key card in your hand, but I think it's worth pointing out as a safer way to go off in general.
So I played this deck to a 7-2 finish at SCG: Baltimore. Tiebrakers kept me out of the top 16, I came in 18th.
The deck is strong, resiliant, and ridiculously fun. With minimal playtesting, it was able to just wreck people.
I played only 60 cards, becuase I couldn't get my hands on a Starved Rusalka. I definitly wish I could have, but it didn't matter all that often. I also played a second Forest instead of the Gaea's Cradle, but that's probably incorrect as well. For the sideboard, I did make a slight adjustment and squeezed in 3 Leyline of Sanctity by cutting the Krosan Grips and 1 Sylvan Library. The leyline's were pretty good, letting me steal a game against a TES player (I did lose that match), and also against an ANT player (who literally scooped up his cards and filled out the match slip in response to the turn 0 Leyline).
One thing I will note is that cutting the Grips left me basically dead to Humility. I did lose a game to it, but I'm not sure I would have had them sided in at the point based on what I saw in game 1, and I managed to take down game 3.
Fauna Shaman was not a card I was particularly happy with on the day. I almost never wanted it, and the few times I had it it was unimpressive. I'm not sure how needed it is or if I'll regret it if I cut it, but just putting it out there.
I beat Goblins twice to start the day. I lost 1 game to poor mulligan decisions, but otherwise it was Progenitus beatdowns.
Next round I played an Enlightened Tutor Counterbalance deck. I was able to combo off game 1 becuase he had no idea what I was doing. Game 2 he was able to disrupt me and get Humility down before I could combo off and managed to acquire thopter sword combo before I could get there with 1/1. Game 3 I was able to combo off pretty quickly, thanks to Xantid Swarm.
Round 4 was Merfolk. A Cabal Therapy ensured the way was clear, so it was combo city. Game 2 he had to make tough mulligan decisions, and they didn't work out for him. Although we talked after the match and I think they were the right decisions. The all counter/no pressure hand wasn't going to beat me and neither was the several dudes with no counters.
Round 5 was Storm. He got there game 1. It was close. Had he not Orim's chanted me the turn before he went off, I would have. Game 2 a Leyline bought me a few turns and I was able to do what I do. Game 3 I kept a 6 card hand that I shouldn't have and I lost.
Round 6 was NO RUG. I'm not particularly happy with my mulligan decisions in this match, as I think I kept a hand I shouldn't have in game 1. He had enough disruption, to get there. Game 2 was pretty close, as his Clique taking away my needed Cabal Therapy drew me into Cabal Therapy. Unfortunately, I didn't have a black source and the next turn I drew... another Cabal Therapy. Sad Face.
Round 7 was Dredge. A turn 1 probe tells me I shouldn't therapy so I play carrion feeder instead. He would have had a turn 2 kill but I ate 3 of his bridges in response so he only got to attack for 3 instead of 30. His Ichorids did not race my progenitus. Game 2 he kept a hand that was going to rely on Breakthrough finding him goodies. My turn 1 probe-therapy took 2 of them, and left him helpless.
Round 8 was ANT. All his turn 1 duress could take was Cabal Therapy, and since he didn't go off on turn 2, I hardcast Hulk on turn 3 and went off. My 6 card hand in game 2 had Leyline, and he just signed the match slip after I put it into play.
Round 9 was Stoneforge control. Getting to see a hand light on countermagic and no mystic was nice. I went off the turn before his Ancestral Visions could draw him into anything. Game 2 was all about double cabal therapy. I took his batterskull and left him virtually helpless. He had enough disruption to keep me from going off, but only barely. I beat down with random dudes then eventually got Progenitus.
The deck is really quite good. I think if I had more then 3 games of practice before the turnament (and wasn't missing an important card), I could have made some better decisions (particularly about mulligans) and gotten a better result. The deck is fun and resiliant. Very nice Primer gave me lots of info to help too.
So I played this deck to a 7-2 finish at SCG: Baltimore. Tiebrakers kept me out of the top 16, I came in 18th.
Congratulation for your good result, very well played. It’s a bit sad you didn’t do top 16 but still, 7-2 is nice.
For the sideboard, I did make a slight adjustment and squeezed in 3 Leyline of Sanctity by cutting the Krosan Grips and 1 Sylvan Library. The leyline's were pretty good, letting me steal a game against a TES player (I did lose that match), and also against an ANT player (who literally scooped up his cards and filled out the match slip in response to the turn 0 Leyline).
Storm is an awful matchup. It’s bad luck to get paired against them 2 times, but you can be happy that you did 1-1 on this matchup. Your Leyline of Sanctity was a good call. When there was more storm in the meta, I used to play 2 Null Rod in side. Null Rod on the field slow down storm enough to race them, and Null Rod is also useful against a ton of decks (Affinity, Painter’s, Countertop Thopter, etc). I guess Leyline of Sanctity is also a good choice.
Round 7 was Dredge. A turn 1 probe tells me I shouldn't therapy so I play carrion feeder instead. He would have had a turn 2 kill but I ate 3 of his bridges in response so he only got to attack for 3 instead of 30. His Ichorids did not race my progenitus. Game 2 he kept a hand that was going to rely on Breakthrough finding him goodies. My turn 1 probe-therapy took 2 of them, and left him helpless.
Nicely done against Dredge. Removing Birdges in grave is key in the matchup. As long as you have a creature that can sac itself on the field, you are in good shape.
Fauna Shaman was not a card I was particularly happy with on the day. I almost never wanted it, and the few times I had it it was unimpressive. I'm not sure how needed it is or if I'll regret it if I cut it, but just putting it out there.
As long as you did draw your Natural Order and Pattern of Rebirth with regularity, I understand that Fauna Shaman can feel slow and sometime clunky. But I assure you she is a necessity for the consistency of the deck. When you didn’t draw a combo piece, a Green Sun’s Zenith for Fauna Shaman is there to win you the game. Against any slow deck, an unanswered Fauna Shaman will win the game in few turns.
Round 6 was NO RUG. I'm not particularly happy with my mulligan decisions in this match, as I think I kept a hand I shouldn't have in game 1. He had enough disruption, to get there. Game 2 was pretty close, as his Clique taking away my needed Cabal Therapy drew me into Cabal Therapy. Unfortunately, I didn't have a black source and the next turn I drew... another Cabal Therapy. Sad Face.
If it’s your first tournament with the deck, there is no reason to be ashamed. You did 3-1 against Force of Will decks, an overall nice result. In fact, 7-2 in a tournement where you was paired against storm 2 times is really good.
Very happy that you did so well with the deck, wish you’ll have other success with it!
Ok, I just had an amazing idea: Putrid Imp. This card is FAR better than the "grab 2 Tinder Wall and Wild Cantor and hard-cast" strategy, as it is uncounterable. I've run through the combo and it will work for any card stuck in your hand.
Sac Hulk, fetch Feeder, Imp, Rector, and Dryads Arbor
Sac Rector, put Pattern on a Dryad, sac, grab Hulk
Discard whatever is in your hand
If you had Body Double, then sac Hulk for Reveillark and Mogg, then combo off
If you had Reveillark, grab Double and Mogg, then combo off
We can keep Tinders for ramp if we wish, but I think Cantor should definitely be dropped for Imp.
Putrid imp will work in almost any situation, that's true. But I can see one exception: if you got both Reveillark + Body Double in hand. Unlikekly I know, but this happen some times. With my build you can get Rector + Feeder + Mogg Fanatic, then Hulk from Rector, then 2 Tinder Wall + Wild Cantor + 1 Wall of Roots (and another thing for 1 cmc), then hard cast Reveillark, sac it to get back 1 Cantor + 1 Tinder Wall and you only need 1 more mana to be able to cast Body Double immediatly (or you can just pass the turn with Rector + Feeder + Fanatic and win next turn). With Putrid Imp you can be screw in that situation.
Tinder Wall + Wild Cantor are useful as mana accelerators but also as targets for Pattern of Rebirth. But it's true that Wild Cantor is not an awesome card to draw pre-combo. I just do not think that drawing Putrid Imp pre-combo will be any better. Sure, I can see case where Putrid Imp will be useful pre-combo: you can use it to re-shuffle Progenitus, you can use it to discard a Therapy and flashback it for zero mana, and you can use it to discard Protean Hulk before hardcasting a Body Double and go off that way. But let face it, most of the time Putrid Imp will be a death card. At least Cantor accel you a bit and double as a good target for Pattern.
Another reason to keep Cantor in the deck is for the corner case scenario when you need a White or Blue mana immediatly and you do not have a Birds or a Savannah but you have GSZ. You can spend 2 for GSZ to get Cantor and, let say, cast a Reveillark, an Academy Rector or a Body Double.
Do not worry too much about the danger of opponent countering an hardcasted Body Double or Reveillark once the combo go off. If opponent have a counter, he will use it to counter Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth in the first place, he will not keep it in case you have a combo piece in hand.
Anyway, if you test Putid Imp, repport us how it did for you.
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature. - Maximillian Cohen.
Sure I am. But I'm not sure who you are. Any chance that I see you this weekend in the Canadian Magic Tour?
Back on the topic, I'll play sunday in a big tournement here at Montreal and I am thinking about putting some grave-hate in the side. Dredge never was a problem because the plan of removing Bridges from opponent grave is working well, but the new reanimators decks can be a pain. I tested Extirpate and Leyline of the Void recently because we have one reanimator player in the local meta and I have trouble to beat Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
What do you think is best for sideboard against reanimator? I can take out 1 Carpet of Flowers, 1 Krosan Grip and 1 Slaughter Pact for 3 hate cards. Or can I just hope to dodge the matchup?
Faerie Macabre? Useful because it can't be countered or Krosan Gripped or Null Rodded like Tormod's Crypt can be.
It's a shame Reveillark targets, because Body Double doesn't technically target (I believe.) So you could almost get away with Ground Seal, but you can't obviously because of Reveillark.
Imp is amazing. The ability to return Progen to the deck, or toss things stuck in hand, or just discard therapies, is amazing. There is no way I'm taking him put, though I really wish he was green :/ even still, I grab him when I combo off and often use him with Theropy
I would think you would want to leave in your slaughter pacts. After all, they are good against the reanimator targets that cause you trouble - Elesh and Jin-Gitax.
Realistically, if your going to bring in hate, Extirpate is the way to go. A good reanimator player can play around most everything else. That said, its not crippling in a lot of ways. You could also bring in the new commander card that eats the graveyard. Sure, its slow and wont disrupt their speedy hands, but thats what Cabal Therapy should be doing for you.
Ok, further testing says Putrid Imp is a boss. Just not sure if Cantor is the right card to cut. Right now I'm thinking cutting one of the following:
Cantor
Tinder Wall
Rusalka
Wall of Roots
Cantor and Tinder are great rampers and, as felix mentioned, in corner cases Putrid isnt enough (ie you got BOTH Body and Reveillark in hard). Wall of roots looks like an easy cut, but I have found the ability to cast it and make mana off it to be the difference between wining and losing before. Wall of Roots is also strong vs Aggro. One will sometimes have to GSZ for Rusalka to get a sac outlet.
I think Cantor is the right spot, but it makes me uneasy. I think I would prefer to replace Wall of Roots, but I have not been able to test with Imp for Roots vs Aggro enough times to be sure. What are you guys' thoughts? I definitely want to play with Imp.
PS: How insane would it be to trade Rusalka+Wall of Root for a feeder and an Imp...?
If you absolutly want to enter Putrid Imp, I think the best is to cut 1 Pattern of Rebirth. The deck is working well with 4 NO + 3 Pattern as you often have more than 1 NO/Pattern in hand and you just need to resolve 1 to win. Another option is to cut 1 Probe. I would not touch anything else.
If you absolutly want to enter Putrid Imp, I think the best is to cut 1 Pattern of Rebirth. The deck is working well with 4 NO + 3 Pattern as you often have more than 1 NO/Pattern in hand and you just need to resolve 1 to win. Another option is to cut 1 Probe. I would not touch anything else.
Congrats on getting 3rd at SCG Pittsburgh. It would be awesome if you could write up some quick thoughts for us Felix. I see that you made some changes to the mainboard and sideboard.
If you are thinking of using Putrid Imp, I would go with Tireless Tribe instead. It is a bit more difficult to cast, but seems like a better choice to me. You can pump the toughness and use it to block. An extra card in hand can make it bolt proof.
I mainly wanted to address the point of timing out. This is really key any time explaining to your opponent is the issue. As soon as you see your opponent is confused, kindly suggest that a judge would be a better person to ask. Remind him that you may not be the most reliable source. Call the judge and explain the combo in front of the judge. If there are any questions, the judge can answer it more authoritatively and possibly more succinctly.
Most importantly, the judge can grant a time extension. Any time a judge call takes over a minute, the judge is supposed to grant an extension. Make sure you ask for it at the time, because they don't get granted retroactively. Sure, you might not need it if you just comboed on T2 of game 1 and the judge call took 3 minutes. But, then you might. Better safe than sorry.
Main deck I played the same list of this primer (check the opening post of this thread). For the sideboard, I did cut 2 Krosan Grip as it's not needed that much now that Counterbalance is not played. Leyline of Sanctity took their place for Storm and B/W (discard) marchups.
@argyris: I played near 300 sanctioned matches with this deck. Until now, I got only 1 unintentional draw and this have nothing to do with my opponent not understanding the combo. So I don't think that's really matter.
Good luck with the deck, Wildchild, and repport your results with it.
The banning of Misstep will have some positive and some negative effects on the deck. The fact that opponents do not have anymore this easy way to counter Therapy, Birds, Xantid Swarm and Carpet of Flowers is nice, but the resurgence of fast combo decks can be problematic. For that reason, Leyline of Sanctity can be a good choice for sideboard now. I see Null Rod as another possibility as this hurt both storm and Sensei's Divining Top decks.
The reason why I prefer Mogg Fanatic is when you draw it before combo. When you are able to cast it (via Birds / Tinder Wall / Wild Cantor) Fanatic can kill a lot of creatures like Lackey, Confident, Grim Lavamancer, Noble Hierarch, etc. Death Cultist is easier to cast pre-combo, but almost useless.
Post combo, there is almost no difference but Fanatic is a little bit better if opponent have for instance a Leyline of Sanctity: Fanatic can kill all his creatures then you can attack with a 100/100 Carrion Feeder.
About running a second Reveillark:
I don't think it worth it. The list is already very tight and really, you don't need a second lark. As said before, you can go off around a removal spell by getting first Academy Rector + Viscera Seer + Carrion Feeder + Dryad Arbor.
Having Body Double or Reveillark in hand:
Once you sac Hulk, get Wild Cantor + 2 Tinder Wall and hard cast the one you have in hand. This is the basic idea. Sure there is situations where 1 Cantor or 1 Tinder Wall is already in grave. Seriously, there is a lot of combinations of creatures you can grab from Hulk trigger that will permit you to still win. Exemple, with Reveillark in hand and 1 Tinder Wall in grave:
1. Grab Rector + Feeder + Wild Cantor + all Dryads Arbor
2. Rector for Pattern, for second Protean Hulk
3. Tinder Wall + Body Double copying Tinder Wall in grave
4. Hardcast Reveillark. You do not have Mogg Fanatic but you still have an infinite loop to sac for Feeder and can get back all your creatures at instant speed. You'll normally win next turn, attacking with your big zombie.
2 Protean Hulk in hand:
Obviously, you can still win via Progenitus, or you can ramp your mana to 7 to hardcast Hulk. You can also use Fauna Shaman or Cabal Therapy to drop Hulk in grave and get a Body Double (possibly via Pattern of Rebirth) and win from it.
Body Double:
Hulk fetches 2 Feeder, 2 Timber Wall, Wild Cantor, and Mogg.
Hardcast Body, sac to feeder, fetch Revallark and some 1 cmc thing.
Win.
Revallark:
Hulk fetches Feeder and Body Double
Sac Body Double to Feeder, fetching 2 Feeder, Wild Cantor, 2 Tinder, Mogg
Hardcast Revallark, win.
Sorry, I misread the question.
To Xantid: I have been looking at the deck list and I would combo off slightly differently than you say in the OP in the standard situation:
Cast NO, get Hulk. Hulk dies.
Grab Rector, Dryads Arbor, 2 Feeder, and Mogg.
Rector grabs Pattern, grab second Hulk.
Hulk grabs Body Double, ... Same as usual.
This method gives you 3 sac dudes instead of 1
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BGR Punishing Nic Fit
That's good except your first Hulk trigger can't get you Mogg Fanatic: Rector is cmc 4, so you just got Rector + Feeder + Seer (+Dryads). You got Mogg Fanatic from the second Hulk's trigger (with Body Double).
It's better to combo out that way if you are in a situation where opponent can still play a removal spell. But most of the time, at the point you go off, you know the way is free: you often have played a Therapy the same turn or you just attacked with Xantid Swarm or opponent is tapped out. As I already said, most of the time opponent will spend removal on your Birds / Dryad Arbor / Xantid Swarm before you go off. If not, you're right, go off that way. I will add this in the Primer under "Important Strategies".
Ah, good catch. That was a typo. Yes, I recognize you will often know you can go off without fear... But this way hasn't been specifically addressed (as far as I saw) as a legitimate way to go off in general, even though it is strictly superior (so why not be in the habit to just always do it this way?). I think you mentioned it to get around removal when you have a key card in your hand, but I think it's worth pointing out as a safer way to go off in general.
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Currently Playing:
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BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
The deck is strong, resiliant, and ridiculously fun. With minimal playtesting, it was able to just wreck people.
I played only 60 cards, becuase I couldn't get my hands on a Starved Rusalka. I definitly wish I could have, but it didn't matter all that often. I also played a second Forest instead of the Gaea's Cradle, but that's probably incorrect as well. For the sideboard, I did make a slight adjustment and squeezed in 3 Leyline of Sanctity by cutting the Krosan Grips and 1 Sylvan Library. The leyline's were pretty good, letting me steal a game against a TES player (I did lose that match), and also against an ANT player (who literally scooped up his cards and filled out the match slip in response to the turn 0 Leyline).
One thing I will note is that cutting the Grips left me basically dead to Humility. I did lose a game to it, but I'm not sure I would have had them sided in at the point based on what I saw in game 1, and I managed to take down game 3.
Fauna Shaman was not a card I was particularly happy with on the day. I almost never wanted it, and the few times I had it it was unimpressive. I'm not sure how needed it is or if I'll regret it if I cut it, but just putting it out there.
I beat Goblins twice to start the day. I lost 1 game to poor mulligan decisions, but otherwise it was Progenitus beatdowns.
Next round I played an Enlightened Tutor Counterbalance deck. I was able to combo off game 1 becuase he had no idea what I was doing. Game 2 he was able to disrupt me and get Humility down before I could combo off and managed to acquire thopter sword combo before I could get there with 1/1. Game 3 I was able to combo off pretty quickly, thanks to Xantid Swarm.
Round 4 was Merfolk. A Cabal Therapy ensured the way was clear, so it was combo city. Game 2 he had to make tough mulligan decisions, and they didn't work out for him. Although we talked after the match and I think they were the right decisions. The all counter/no pressure hand wasn't going to beat me and neither was the several dudes with no counters.
Round 5 was Storm. He got there game 1. It was close. Had he not Orim's chanted me the turn before he went off, I would have. Game 2 a Leyline bought me a few turns and I was able to do what I do. Game 3 I kept a 6 card hand that I shouldn't have and I lost.
Round 6 was NO RUG. I'm not particularly happy with my mulligan decisions in this match, as I think I kept a hand I shouldn't have in game 1. He had enough disruption, to get there. Game 2 was pretty close, as his Clique taking away my needed Cabal Therapy drew me into Cabal Therapy. Unfortunately, I didn't have a black source and the next turn I drew... another Cabal Therapy. Sad Face.
Round 7 was Dredge. A turn 1 probe tells me I shouldn't therapy so I play carrion feeder instead. He would have had a turn 2 kill but I ate 3 of his bridges in response so he only got to attack for 3 instead of 30. His Ichorids did not race my progenitus. Game 2 he kept a hand that was going to rely on Breakthrough finding him goodies. My turn 1 probe-therapy took 2 of them, and left him helpless.
Round 8 was ANT. All his turn 1 duress could take was Cabal Therapy, and since he didn't go off on turn 2, I hardcast Hulk on turn 3 and went off. My 6 card hand in game 2 had Leyline, and he just signed the match slip after I put it into play.
Round 9 was Stoneforge control. Getting to see a hand light on countermagic and no mystic was nice. I went off the turn before his Ancestral Visions could draw him into anything. Game 2 was all about double cabal therapy. I took his batterskull and left him virtually helpless. He had enough disruption to keep me from going off, but only barely. I beat down with random dudes then eventually got Progenitus.
The deck is really quite good. I think if I had more then 3 games of practice before the turnament (and wasn't missing an important card), I could have made some better decisions (particularly about mulligans) and gotten a better result. The deck is fun and resiliant. Very nice Primer gave me lots of info to help too.
Congratulation for your good result, very well played. It’s a bit sad you didn’t do top 16 but still, 7-2 is nice.
Storm is an awful matchup. It’s bad luck to get paired against them 2 times, but you can be happy that you did 1-1 on this matchup. Your Leyline of Sanctity was a good call. When there was more storm in the meta, I used to play 2 Null Rod in side. Null Rod on the field slow down storm enough to race them, and Null Rod is also useful against a ton of decks (Affinity, Painter’s, Countertop Thopter, etc). I guess Leyline of Sanctity is also a good choice.
Nicely done against Dredge. Removing Birdges in grave is key in the matchup. As long as you have a creature that can sac itself on the field, you are in good shape.
As long as you did draw your Natural Order and Pattern of Rebirth with regularity, I understand that Fauna Shaman can feel slow and sometime clunky. But I assure you she is a necessity for the consistency of the deck. When you didn’t draw a combo piece, a Green Sun’s Zenith for Fauna Shaman is there to win you the game. Against any slow deck, an unanswered Fauna Shaman will win the game in few turns.
If it’s your first tournament with the deck, there is no reason to be ashamed. You did 3-1 against Force of Will decks, an overall nice result. In fact, 7-2 in a tournement where you was paired against storm 2 times is really good.
Very happy that you did so well with the deck, wish you’ll have other success with it!
Sac Hulk, fetch Feeder, Imp, Rector, and Dryads Arbor
Sac Rector, put Pattern on a Dryad, sac, grab Hulk
Discard whatever is in your hand
If you had Body Double, then sac Hulk for Reveillark and Mogg, then combo off
If you had Reveillark, grab Double and Mogg, then combo off
We can keep Tinders for ramp if we wish, but I think Cantor should definitely be dropped for Imp.
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Currently Playing:
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BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Tinder Wall + Wild Cantor are useful as mana accelerators but also as targets for Pattern of Rebirth. But it's true that Wild Cantor is not an awesome card to draw pre-combo. I just do not think that drawing Putrid Imp pre-combo will be any better. Sure, I can see case where Putrid Imp will be useful pre-combo: you can use it to re-shuffle Progenitus, you can use it to discard a Therapy and flashback it for zero mana, and you can use it to discard Protean Hulk before hardcasting a Body Double and go off that way. But let face it, most of the time Putrid Imp will be a death card. At least Cantor accel you a bit and double as a good target for Pattern.
Another reason to keep Cantor in the deck is for the corner case scenario when you need a White or Blue mana immediatly and you do not have a Birds or a Savannah but you have GSZ. You can spend 2 for GSZ to get Cantor and, let say, cast a Reveillark, an Academy Rector or a Body Double.
Do not worry too much about the danger of opponent countering an hardcasted Body Double or Reveillark once the combo go off. If opponent have a counter, he will use it to counter Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth in the first place, he will not keep it in case you have a combo piece in hand.
Anyway, if you test Putid Imp, repport us how it did for you.
Are you Félix?
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
Sure I am. But I'm not sure who you are. Any chance that I see you this weekend in the Canadian Magic Tour?
Back on the topic, I'll play sunday in a big tournement here at Montreal and I am thinking about putting some grave-hate in the side. Dredge never was a problem because the plan of removing Bridges from opponent grave is working well, but the new reanimators decks can be a pain. I tested Extirpate and Leyline of the Void recently because we have one reanimator player in the local meta and I have trouble to beat Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
What do you think is best for sideboard against reanimator? I can take out 1 Carpet of Flowers, 1 Krosan Grip and 1 Slaughter Pact for 3 hate cards. Or can I just hope to dodge the matchup?
It's a shame Reveillark targets, because Body Double doesn't technically target (I believe.) So you could almost get away with Ground Seal, but you can't obviously because of Reveillark.
Imp is amazing. The ability to return Progen to the deck, or toss things stuck in hand, or just discard therapies, is amazing. There is no way I'm taking him put, though I really wish he was green :/ even still, I grab him when I combo off and often use him with Theropy
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Realistically, if your going to bring in hate, Extirpate is the way to go. A good reanimator player can play around most everything else. That said, its not crippling in a lot of ways. You could also bring in the new commander card that eats the graveyard. Sure, its slow and wont disrupt their speedy hands, but thats what Cabal Therapy should be doing for you.
Cantor
Tinder Wall
Rusalka
Wall of Roots
Cantor and Tinder are great rampers and, as felix mentioned, in corner cases Putrid isnt enough (ie you got BOTH Body and Reveillark in hard). Wall of roots looks like an easy cut, but I have found the ability to cast it and make mana off it to be the difference between wining and losing before. Wall of Roots is also strong vs Aggro. One will sometimes have to GSZ for Rusalka to get a sac outlet.
I think Cantor is the right spot, but it makes me uneasy. I think I would prefer to replace Wall of Roots, but I have not been able to test with Imp for Roots vs Aggro enough times to be sure. What are you guys' thoughts? I definitely want to play with Imp.
PS: How insane would it be to trade Rusalka+Wall of Root for a feeder and an Imp...?
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
I'll test it down a pattern then
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/16204884
I mainly wanted to address the point of timing out. This is really key any time explaining to your opponent is the issue. As soon as you see your opponent is confused, kindly suggest that a judge would be a better person to ask. Remind him that you may not be the most reliable source. Call the judge and explain the combo in front of the judge. If there are any questions, the judge can answer it more authoritatively and possibly more succinctly.
Most importantly, the judge can grant a time extension. Any time a judge call takes over a minute, the judge is supposed to grant an extension. Make sure you ask for it at the time, because they don't get granted retroactively. Sure, you might not need it if you just comboed on T2 of game 1 and the judge call took 3 minutes. But, then you might. Better safe than sorry.
Main deck I played the same list of this primer (check the opening post of this thread). For the sideboard, I did cut 2 Krosan Grip as it's not needed that much now that Counterbalance is not played. Leyline of Sanctity took their place for Storm and B/W (discard) marchups.
@argyris: I played near 300 sanctioned matches with this deck. Until now, I got only 1 unintentional draw and this have nothing to do with my opponent not understanding the combo. So I don't think that's really matter.
Edit - For those interested, there is a link to my SCG Pittsburg Tournament report:
http://manatalks.com/blog/2011/08/scg-legacy-open-pittsburgh-from-rogue-to-riches/
I don't understand why this thread isn't sticky'd yet...
Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
MY SALES THREAD!
The banning of Misstep will have some positive and some negative effects on the deck. The fact that opponents do not have anymore this easy way to counter Therapy, Birds, Xantid Swarm and Carpet of Flowers is nice, but the resurgence of fast combo decks can be problematic. For that reason, Leyline of Sanctity can be a good choice for sideboard now. I see Null Rod as another possibility as this hurt both storm and Sensei's Divining Top decks.