Hulk Rebirth is a deck that use Natural Order to find Protean Hulk and do a kill combo with it. Progenitus is backup if the combo somehow fizzles. Obviously, combing out consistently and early is important, so the deck uses four of both Natural Order and Pattern of Rebirth, as well as many ways to kill your Hulk.
Hulk Rebirth is robust and flexible as a deck. Undisrupted, it’s a pretty consistent turn three killer. Cards like Cabal Therapy, which is also good for getting your combo off, and Xantid Swarm, the deck can also very easily break through the walls of countermagic featured in a lot of modern legacy decks. Hulk Rebirth is also surprisingly resilient against graveyeard hate and very consistent even when attacked by discard spells. In fact, when you play Hulk Rebirth, it’s easy to be in a position where a lot of draws will win you the game on the spot. Very often, Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, and Academy Rector feel like four mana win-the-game spells. When you have seven mana available, something that you can regularly reach on turn 3 to 5 with all the mana accelerants the deck has, you can also win on the spot with a topdecked Protean Hulk. At eight mana, you can even Green Sun’s Zenith directly into the Hulk. At this point, it’s a real nightmare for a slow control deck unable to present a fast clock, as they are assured to run out of counter-magic before you’ll run out of treats.
The main goal of the deck is to get a Protean Hulk into play, which as mentioned above is generally via Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth. You then kill it in some way with one of the many sac-outlets at your disposal. From that point, you normally win at instant speed: the Hulk’s triggered ability gets you a Body Double (who comes into play as a copy of Protean Hulk) and a Viscera Seer or a Carrion Feeder. You sacrifice your Body Double into the black creature to get a new Hulk trigger and search for Reveillark and Mogg Fanatic. Fanatic pings the opponent for one, then you sacrifice Reveillark into the Seer/Feeder to get back Fanatic and Body Double. This time, Body Double comes into play as a copy of Reveillark. You ping again with Fanatic and then sacrifice your new Reveillark to get back... Mogg Fanatic and Body Double again! From that point it’s an infinite loop.
When one sac-outlet is missing to complete the main combo, the deck also feature the more traditional target for Natural Order: Progenitus. A bit slow compared to the fast kill Hulk can provide, the big Hydra is still enough to get the job done in a lot of situations (and you can get it into play as fast as turn 2 with some help from Ancient Tomb or Tinder Wall). It’s the solid B plan. Remember that both Natural Order and Pattern of Rebirth can got you Progenitus when needed.
Finally, try to not forget every opportunity to turn yours creatures sideways, because when all else fails, the little damage that your various 1/1's can do can add up. I have won games with this deck attacking with Dryads Arbor under Standstill against an unlucky opponent who do not find a Wasteland or Factories. I also won a couple of games with a 5/5 or 6/6 Carrion Feeder or with Reveillark or Protean Hulk attacks... I even vividly remember a game I won with a Xantid Swarm attack under Humility. So, do not forget your attack phases, you never know.
Take note it’s a 61 cards list. If you absolutely want to reduce the list to 60, the most reasonable choice is to cut a Pattern of Rebirth, but I dislike the idea of not playing a full playset. Cutting a Gitaxian Probe is lame, as the card took almost no real place in the deck and is generally amazing, particularly in game 1. Cutting a Bird is also a possibility, but I’ll not recommend it as Birds of Paradise is generally your best turn 1 play. All the rest is untouchable in my opinion.
Deck Dissection
After a lot of testing and games with the deck, I’m convinced that the actual land count is optimal. You really want to be able to make your land drops and you're in good shape if you do for at least 3 turns. 21 land with four Probes guaranty that you’ll do it in most games.
Another crucial thing is to be able to generate green mana on turn one. Unless you mulligan to 5 or less or you are sure your opponent is not playing Wasteland/Sword to Plowshare/Lightning Bolt, never keep an hand with Dryad Arbor as your only green source. This is the reason why I think the total count of fetchlands + Forest + Bayou + Savannah can’t go under 14.
As everyone knows, the fetchlands (3 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Wooded Foothills, 2 Misty Rainforest, 2 Windswepth Heath) are amazing. They get you your critical green mana sources, including those that produce multiple colors of mana and Dryad Arbor. This flexibility and the natural immunity they provide to Wasteland explains why I choose to play nine even if it exposes you at the little risk of running out of targets in the deck. Playing a mix like that (3-2-2-2) is optimal against Pithing Needle and Extirpate. These are niche cases, but it is something to think about.
3 Bayou – This is generally the default target of the first fetchland you crack on the play. Black is the second colour of the deck, and 3 Bayou guarantee you you’ll never run out of them.
1 Savannah – White is needed to cast only 2 cards main deck (Academy Rector and Reveillark) but you want to be able to do it when you need – particularly the Rector. Just remember you only have one, so do not expose your Savannah to enemy Wastelands without a good reason.
2 Dryad Arbor – Awful cards to draw, amazing cards to have in the deck. Those Dryads do very important things to make the deck work properly: they can be fetched and they allow you to use Green Sun’s Zenith as Llanowar Elves. Once in play they have so much utility, it’s hard to believe: they are targets for Pattern of Rebirth, food for Natural Order or flashbacked Cabal Therapy, chump blocker, they can kill a Goblin Lackey or a Dark Confidant (or even, in pair, a Gadock Teeg), they raise the count for Gaea’s Cradle, they get sacrificed into Phyrexian Tower, or to Viscera Seer when you dig for a game winning top deck. Two Dryad Arbor is the right count: you’ll sometimes be sad that you aren't running three, because those little Dryad get killed very easily, but three would be a nightmare for starting hands.
3 Ancient Tomb – These provide a lot of explosiveness on early turns. They give you a realistic chance of casting Natural Order for Progenitus on turn 2, as well as helping you to play all your key spells a turn faster. Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, Green Sun’s Zenith and Academy Rector all benefit from this. Three is the right number, because you are generally happy to see one Tomb, but typically do not want to see a second one.
1 Gaea’s Cradle – In many ways, it’s your fourth Ancient Tomb, with the added bonuses of providing green mana and in crazy quantities at no life payment, but also with the disadvantage of giving just one or zero mana on occasion . You’ll appreciate the ability to fetch out a Dryad Arbor when you have Cradle in hand or in play. Take note that Cradle can allow Turn two-win, a feat that Hulk Rebirth is generally unable to achieve without the Slaughter Pacts from the sideboard (Turn 1: Forest, Birds; Turn 2: Cabal Therapy, Tinder Wall, Cradle for GG, sac Tinder Wall for RR, Natural Order). I play only one Cradle because it’s less consistent than Tomb to provide two mana (obviously, there is also the legendary rule).
1 Phyrexian Tower – A versatile land: you can tap it for 1 colorless or use it as a two-mana land at the cost of one creature. But the main reason to play the Tower is as an additional (and sometime crucial) sac-outlet.
I know this big list of singletons turns some heads, and makes my list look a bit like one from Vintage, but all those numbers and names make sense.
4 Birds of Paradise – Most of the time, this is your best turn one play. You are always happy with a Birds in your starting seven. These Mana Birds generally allow you to have access to 3 or 4 mana on turn 2.
2 Tinder Wall, 1 Wild Cantor – These three creatures are needed in the deck to be able to hardcast a Reveillark or a Body Double from your hand after you sacked Protean Hulk. They also play the role of mana accelerators and are excellent targets for Pattern of Rebirth. Remember that sacking Tinder Wall for RR or Wild Cantor is a mana ability (and don't use the stack) so you can sacrifice your Wall with a Pattern on it even when your opponent targets the enchantment with a Krosan Grip. Also note that Tinder Wall is able to block a significant number of creatures (Lackey, Teeg, Confident...). Do not forget the Tinder Wall’s second ability! Rarely useful, but those 2 point of damage on a blocked creature can sometime win you the game if the creature in question is Gaddock Teeg or Tidehollow Sculler.
1 Wall of Roots – Another mana accelerator that doubles as an excellent blocker. You sometimes need your Wall of Roots to cast a Pattern of Rebirth against an opponent holding a Pyrokinesis, a Fireblast, or simply a Lightning Bolt.
1 Carrion Feeder, 1 Viscera Seer – Combo pieces that you fetch when you sac Hulk. These also help you to go off. Each one has it's own specific advantages. Feeder can become very big and laugh at your enemy’s Leyline of Sanctity or Pithing Needle naming Mogg Fanatic. Seer can block and allow you to dig for a top deck if you are in the posture of do-or-die. Playing two with two different names give you a sort of immunity against Pithing Needle’s effects as well.
1 Starved Rusalka – As long as Wizard doesn't print a green Carrion Feeder, this will be a necessary evil. Starved Rusalka is a very bad creature, but having it in the deck turns all your Green Sun’s Zenith in potentials sac-outlets.
1 Xantid Swarm – In a combo deck playing 4 Green’s Sun Zenith, against a metagame where 60% to 80% of the decks are playing 4 Force of Will (and often a lot of other counters), there is no question that Xantid Swarm is a must. But Xantid Swarm is not only good against counters: the little insect allows you to play Pattern of Rebirth without fear of removal and makes your opponents who bring Extirpate from sideboard look stupid. Finally, as a green creature, Xantid Swarm can be sacked for Natural Order...
1 Fauna Shaman – You need Fauna Shaman in those situations when there is no Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth or Academy Rector in your hand. Thanks to mana accelerator, Green Sun’s Zenith can get her in play on turn 2. Fauna Shaman can get you a sac outlet and an Academy Rector to combo off or a lot of other things.
1 Academy Rector – With a Feeder or a Seer, Rector allow you to combo out instantly, so it’s like your ninth four mana “I win” card. He can also come into play as a result of the Hulk’s trigger to allow you some shenanigan to get around hate pieces (more about this in the section on strategies).
2 Protean Hulk, 1 Body Double, 1 Reveillark, 1 Mogg Fanatic – The combo engine. They are not as dead of cards as it may seam. Mogg Fanatic from a Birds or a Tinder Wall can kill some annoying creatures pre-combo. You’ll be surprise how often you’ll be able to hard cast a Protean Hulk, sometime as early as turn 3. Reveillark can be a good blocker/beater who bring back some creatures you need to win. Even Body Double can be useful pre-combo, if you have the chance of having a Birds or your Wild Cantor to cast it.
1 Progenitus – A great plan B, enough to get you the game in a lot of situations. The sad thing about running it is, as everybody know, the possibility of drawing it. There are a few ways to get rid of him in your hand (Cabal Therapy on yourself, Fauna Shaman) that most of the time you just need to forget about it and try the main combo.
4 Natural Order – The main “I win” card. Resolving a Natural Order is the main goal of the deck, and when you succeed, it’s normally good game.
4 Pattern of Rebirth – Natural Order number 5 to 8. They assure the consistency of the deck. Just be aware of the removal in opponents hand before playing them (playing this against an untapped plain is a risky shot) and be sure you can sac the target immediately after, without letting priority go. Note that Pattern can fetch any creature, not just green ones (something that rarely matters, but still).
4 Cabal Therapy – A Therapy is a good disruption weapon doubled in combo piece for the deck. Sweet to have in hand, very sweet to have in grave. Turn one, against an Island, you almost always name Force of Will. Latter in the game, the same Therapy can get rid of another Force of Will to allow you to cast Natural Order into Progenitus, or it will permit you to go off instantly. The best hands always include this + Natural Order.
4 Gitaxian Probe – Another sweet card. Played on turn 1, the information Probe give you permit you to organize your strategy for the game: do you need to play around a Daze? Around a Spell Snare? Later, at almost no cost, Probe allow you to know if you can cast Natural Order right now or if you need to Zenith for Xantid Swarm or use a Therapy from the grave first. By the way, the synergy with Therapy is awesome and can be back breaking for the opponent if he holds more than one copy of the same card in hand.
4 Green Sun’s Zenith – Awesome card, never play less than 4 of it. X=0 brings you a Dryad Arbor. X=1 can put into play a Xantid Swarm around Mental Misstep (so sweet to see the face of the Fish player who failed to use his Force of Will against your GSZ – oups, too late...). It can also offer you a 2 mana boost for the next turn (Tinder Wall) or the missing sac outlet (Rusalka). If you lack a combo piece, X=2 get you Fauna Shaman. Late game, you’ll even find yourself casting it for 8 mana to get an instant win with Protean Hulk. In fact, GSZ gives you so much flexibility and options, it’s sometimes very hard to play it optimally.
Not Good Enough for Main Deck
These are the cards that just weren't good enough or didn't make the cut.
Qasali Pridemage – I tried it main deck for awhile, but quickly made the decision that game 1, he just did not do enough to justify running him, even as a singleton target for Zenith.
Taiga – I used to play 1 Taiga during a time where there was also 4 Tinder Wall in the deck (as the Taiga can be used to cast Mogg Fanatic and to pay for Tinder Wall’s second ability). With only two Tinder Wall now, I can’t justify the Taiga anymore, and the ninth fetchland took it’s place.
Sylvan Library – A close call. Sylvan Library is a very good card that almost always will win you the game shortly after you play it. It’s just hard to fit it in the deck. For GP Providence, I cut the fourth Pattern to squeeze one main deck. I’m still undecided about it, feel free to try it. For now, I choose to not play it main deck because it’s nice to turn opposing Spell Snares into dead cards.
Swamp – Some people suggest it, but I really believe that 14 turn 1 green sources is the minimum to avoid too much mulligan. Swamp would take the place of an Ancient Tomb, and I wouldn't like having only 2 of them.
Sideboard
I'm always tinkering with the Sideboard. My actual 15 is this:
4 Carpet of Flowers – As long as we are in a meta filled with blie, I’ll play a full playset of these. The more mana the deck can generate, the better it works. Carpets can turn all your Green Sun’s Zenith into instants wins. With two of them and a Tinder Wall, it’s even possible to hardcast a Progenitus!
4 Slaughter Pact – You side these in against any deck that can play Gadock Teeg, one of the worst enemies of the deck. You would also use it against a lot of things like Meddling Mage, Iona, Aven Mindcensor, Painter’s Servant, and many others. Even when the hate bears don’t show up, the Pacts accelerate your deck significantly by providing a way to kill Protean Hulk for no mana (turn 2 Natural Order + Slaughter Pact is a very fast kill). This why I also side in the full playset of Pacts against Storm Combo.
1 Qasali Pridemage – Very important sideboard card. You should almost always bring it in if you think opponent is bringing in the grave-hate. With Pridemage in the deck, you can use Zenith to get rid of problematic artifacts and enchantments. Prime examples includ Leyline of the Void, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt, but there are many others. The best part of it is that you can bring the Pridemage alongside Academy Rector as a result of Hulk’s trigger. That way, you can break a Crypt or a Relic before going off via your Rector, virtually ignoring the first hate piece in play.
2 Krosan Grip – When Counterbalance was largely played, this was a must. Still good against various deck and needed in a lot of situations.
2 Xantid Swarm – Obviously, you side this in this against anything running Force of Wills. I used to play only 2 in my 75 (1 main, 1 side) but I’m going to test a third because the situation where I can’t Zenith for Swarm anymore actually came around.
2 Sylvan Library – Bring them against decks playing a strong discard suit (Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize, ect) and against slow control decks, where paying life does not matter a lot. Even with an empty hand, Library generally wins you the game a few turns after landing.
Vexing Shusher – I decided against running him after testing with him, because it costs too much mana to use him effectively.
Thoughtseize – I used to play few of them for a long time, but they were not as good as they seemed.
How to Side
The most difficult part of sideboarding is not to choosing what to bring in, but what to take out. You do not want to reduce too much of the combo. Never cut a Green Sun’s Zenith (always cut Birds instead) or a Cabal Therapy (too good!). Always keep both Tinder Wall to be able to hard cast a Reveillark or Body Double as you sac Hulk. What you can cut:
- Against blue matchups, bring in 4 Carpet of Flowers. You can then cut few Birds and lands (not green lands: I'm talking about Tombs, Tower, or Cradle). If your opponent plays no Wasteland or other mana denial, you can probably cut 4 or 5 mana sources (otherwise, you probably can still cut up to 3 mana source to bring the Carpets).
- Against non blue deck you can normally take out Xantid Swarm.
- Against decks that cannot deal or race a 10/10 with protection from everything, you can put yourself on the “Progenitus plan” and take out 1 Protean Hulk, 1 Starved Rusalka, 1 Seer or Feeder (not both!), 1 Academy Rector
- Against fast combo decks, you can take out the “slow cards”: Rusalka, Progenitus, Academy Rector, Wall of Roots, 1 Dryad Arbor (keep 1), Fauna Shaman;
- You can generally cut 1 or 2 Pattern of Rebirth without too much problem (but I don’t recommend cutting two against Hymn to Tourach decks)
- The 4 Gitaxian Probes main can be seen as a flexible spot where you can put cards post board without weakening the combo or losing options. You can almost always cut 1 to 4 Gitaxian Probe to make room for sideboards cards.
- Against fast aggro deck, when those 2 life lost can matter, it’s in fact probably a good idea to cut 2 to 4 Probes. In some matchup, when you need to enter a lot of cards, it’s often okay to cut some probes.
Important Strategies
Except against fastest combo you are generally the aggressor. Your line of play must always put you in position to win or to have a good shot at winning next turn or the next. Birds almost always comes out on the first turn when possible.
Counting Your Sac Outlets
Your main sac outlets are Cabal Therapy in grave, Viscera Seer, and Carrion Feeder. Phyrexian Tower, Starved Rusalka, and Natural Order are other ones you’ll find yourself using from time to time.
Each Therapy in grave is a precious resource, as they can act to get rid of a Force in hand late game or, when you keep them in grave, they count as sac outlet, but remember you can use each of them only once.
How to Play Against Blue Mages
Blues matchups are almost always the most skill testing matches, but for a combo deck, Hulk Rebirth is very capable of beating blue and far from being resource less.
Each blue decks are different animal but they generally share in common one powerful card, Force of Will.
Your main tools to beat Force of Will decks are Cabal Therapy and Green Sun’s Zenith for Xantid Swarm and, to a lesser extend, Gitaxian Probe, allowing you to see if the way is free or if you have to wait a bit before going off. Another tool is the simple redundancy you have by running 4 Natural Order, 4 Pattern of Rebirth, 1 Academy Rector, 4 Green Sun’s Zenith and 2 Protean Hulk. They just can’t counter them all!
Playing Against/Around Mental Misstep
If you have seen the Mental Misstep, or are uncertain they have one in hand, your best game plan is to use up less important 1-drops first. For example, if you have 2 sac outlets (Feeder and Seer), but only 1 Birds of Paradise, you will play a Feeder/Seer first to get try and get the Misstep out, and then play your Birds + your second sac outlet. In the reverse, if you are mana flooded, you’ll throw in your 1-drop mana source first in hope to get rid of Misstep and then get your crucial 1 drop pass.
Another possibility when you have a GSZ is simply to skip your first turn and then, on turn 2, to Zenith for Xantid Swarm (if you have an Ancient Tomb, you can even do that around Daze or around Spell Snare). You can then, on turn 3, play all your 1-drops without fear (and often win on turn 4).
I tend to play Gitaxian Probe immediately on the opening. The information it provides will tell you which cards you are going to want play, and the card drawing permits you to know exactly what your tools to do it are. But there is also some merits to wait with a Probe for the turn you go off, to be sure the way is free, if your hand is good enough without the cantrip.
How To Combo Around Removal
Pre-combo, creature removals can be anoying as losing mana dude can slow you down and losing a Xantid Swarm can be very bad. But when you go off, you are normaly able to always sac you creature at instant speed at any moment, so one removal spell can't stop you.
Always keep priority when Protean Hulk came into play and sac it immediatly. Opponent have no room to anwser. You then get Academy Rector + Viscera Seer + Carrion Feeder + all Dryads Arbor still in the deck. From that point, Rector get you a Pattern of Rebirth for a second Hulk and you can still go off, even if opponent hold a removal spell. Unless you are sure your opponent has nothing in hand, it's always safer to combo out that way when possible.
Playing Against Hate
Sometimes opponents will bring a lot of hate to fight our combo game 2. Do not forget the big 10/10 Hydra, often a nice way to win against a lot of hate...
Against 1 Crypt or Relic, you can generally go off easily if you already have a Seer or Feeder in play. Fetch 1 Academy Rector + 1 Qasali Pridemage as result of the first Hulk’s trigger. Use the Pridemage to destroy the artifact, then sac Rector to go off again.
Stifle, Extirpate – If you see these cards in the opponent's hand (via Therapy or Probe) or think opponent has a good chance of holding one of them, it’s probably better to try to win via Progenitus, if you are not able to get rid of them via Therapy or to attack with Swarm before going off.
How To Combo With Pieces in Hand
Having a Reveillark, a Body Double or a Mogg Fanatic in hand generally does not stop you from using the combo. Use the Hulk’s trigger to get Wild Cantor+2 Tinder Wall to hard cast the combo piece you hold, and from there, you can continue to go off.
Matchup Analysis
Any Show and Tell Variants or Hypergenesis Cascade: Complete Blow-Out
Once you know what your opponent is playing, you can mulligan properly and you almost can’t lose. Just let them resolve Show and Tell or Hypergenesis and win from it.
Dredge: Very Favourable
Try to always have a creature that can sac itself (or better, that can sac others) in play, as fast as possible. Remove their Bridge from Bellow in response to the trigger. Without bridges Dredge is slowed enough that you’ll be able to race it.
Merfolk: Very Favourable (Mono-Blue) to Favourable (Splash)
Before Misstep, the deck used to be a complete blow-out in favour of Hulk Rebirth. Playing no Brainstorm, Merfolk can’t hide their Force of Wills from our Cabal Therapy. With no removal in the mono-colored version, Xantid Swarm will often spell good game for Folk. Finally, you play 8 spells that they must all counter... with only 4 counters. Sure, there is Daze, but you can generally play around it.
Since the advent Mental Misstep, the matchup got a little better for the blue tribe, but it’s still a highly favourable matchup. The main bad thing is the fact they can now protect their Force of Will from our Therapy. This will often oblige us to re-use a Therapy from grave to get rid of the free counter, sometimes meaning we have no more sac outlets and need to take the Progenitus road.
Slow Control Decks (MUC, Landstill, etc): Favourable to Even
A lot of things make these matchups good for us. First, slower control decks tend to use playsets of Spell Snare, a card we are almost immune to. Also, in a long game, you have a good chance to reach 7 or 8 mana, with probably at least 1 Therapy in grave. At this point, you have so many topdecks that can just win you the game.
Just be sure not to overextend yourself, because these decks generally pact some form of mass removal. The best way not to is to play only one Xantid Swarm at a time.
Aggro Decks (Goblins, Zoo): Favourable
Do not underestimate these matchups. Sometimes, they can destroy your creatures and put you in an awkward position. Wall of Roots is an important card against Red aggro decks, not only to block attackers, but also as a Pattern of Rebirth target that can survive Pyrokinesis and Fireblast. Against Zoo or GW Maverick, do not forget your Slaughter Pacts from the sideboard to get rid of Gadock Teeg.
Team America: Slightly Unfavourable
What makes this matchup difficult is the combination of mana-denial, counter-magic and hand disruption. Basically, everything that makes this deck what it is. Post sideboard, Carpet of Flowers can help a lot and a resolved Sylvan Library is awesome.
Counterbalance/Top: Unfavourable
We can beat Force of Will. We can endure some Sword to Plowshares. We can recover from mass removal. We can play around an active Counterbalance/Top. But when all those are smacked into one deck, it’s very hard to even struggle.
Faster Combo: Very Unfavourable
ANT, TES, Charbeltcher... those combo decks are at least 1 turn faster than we are. Post sideboard, bringing in 4 Slaughter Pacts give us a better chance of racing them.
Anyway, that is my deck! I hope you enjoyed the read. I want to thanks a lot bone_doc for his amazing job on this primer. Thanks also to Arnnaria and Piet.
If there are any spelling or formatting errors, please contact me or bone_doc. Formatted and edited by bone_doc.
Nice to see that the primer is up and running!
I love the play style of this deck and I feel that protean hulk is just such a potent comboing machine but as I brought up previously I have two questions for this deck:
1. What happens when you draw into the stuff that you wanna search for? I guess this is the case with most combo decks that work like this, but can this deck win if you draw both a progenitus and a protean hulk? I mean I know in the primer it addresses that you can ramp to 6 mana, but I don't see that as very easy to do. If it is something that is obvious that I am missing and not a magical Christmas land scenario, then I apologize for missing it.
2. What happens when someone paths your dude? It seems like everything would come to a standstill at this point. Of course feeder and seer take care of this problem, but there are only 2 in the deck. I don't wanna suggest running mental missteps, as I think it is bad for this deck in particular, but what is the plan?
Also on a final comment for this deck: why not cut fauna shaman from the above list? It seems like it would be too slow to be useful in speeding up the combo, plus with only 1 in the deck it doesn't seem to have that much utility if the match goes into the late game.
Overall though, I like the deck and do think that it has the potential to be a contender.
I'm exited to test and build it!
1. What happens when you draw into the stuff that you wanna search for? I guess this is the case with most combo decks that work like this, but can this deck win if you draw both a progenitus and a protean hulk? I mean I know that it says you can accelerate into them
As AdamP did say, with 2 Protean Hulk + 1 Progenitus in the deck, it's very unlikly to not be able to get at least one of those with NO or Pattern.
Another possible play with 2 Hulk in hand is this (with one Cabal Therapy and one Pattern of Rebirth on a creature you can sacrifice):
1. Cabal Therapy yourself naming Protean Hulk
2. Get Body Double via Pattern of Rebirth
3. Body Double copy Protean Hulk. Flashback therapy to sac it
4. The Hulk trigger get you Academy Rector + Mogg Fanatic + Carrion Feeder
5. Sac the Rector to get another Pattern of Rebirth
6. The final Pattern get you Reveillark - infinite damage combo.
2. What happens when someone paths your dude? It seems like everything would come to a standstill at this point. Of course feeder and seer take care of this problem, but there are only 2 in the deck. I don't wanna suggest running mental missteps, as I think it is bad for this deck in particular, but what is the plan?
Sure, pre-combo creature removal can be an anoying as losing mana dude can slow you down and losing a Xantid Swarm can be very bad. But when you go off, you are normaly able to always sac you creature at instant speed at any moment, so removal can't stop you.
Always keep priority when Protean Hulk came into play and sac it immediatly. Opponent have no room to anwser. You then get Body Double + Seer or Feeder and from that point there is no way to stop you with Path to Exile or Sword to Plowshare as you can always sacrifice your creatures at instant speed.
why not cut fauna shaman from the above list? It seems like it would be too slow to be useful in speeding up the combo, plus with only 1 in the deck it doesn't seem to have that much utility if the match goes into the late game.
Fauna Shaman is not there to speed up the combo and I know it's slow compared to Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth. The reason to play 1 Fauna Shaman is to be able to Green Sun's Zenith for her when you have no Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth in hand. In fact, if you playtest a lot you'll realise that Fauna Shaman is in fact a very frequent target of GSZ.
Sure, pre-combo creature removal can be an anoying as losing mana dude can slow you down and losing a Xantid Swarm can be very bad. But when you go off, you are normaly able to always sac you creature at instant speed at any moment, so removal can't stop you.
Always keep priority when Protean Hulk came into play and sac it immediatly. Opponent have no room to anwser. You then get Body Double + Seer or Feeder and from that point there is no way to stop you with Path to Exile or Sword to Plowshare as you can always sacrifice your creatures at instant speed.
Fauna Shaman is not there to speed up the combo and I know it's slow compared to Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth. The reason to play 1 Fauna Shaman is to be able to Green Sun's Zenith for her when you have no Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth in hand. In fact, if you playtest a lot you'll realise that Fauna Shaman is in fact a very frequent target of GSZ.
Ahhh... nice.
It's good to have the creator of this deck so close to the forums in order to answer any questions about it and I appreciate the responses from everyone else as well.
Anyway as I said previously I haven't gotten to play test this build much at all really (just been goldfishing a few games since I heard about it) but when I do I'm sure that I'll figure out the more intricate workings of the deck.
I'll keep posted about any concerns I run across, but the list really does look pretty tight!
Anyways all in all I'll have to see if pattern of rebirth seems too greedy with no protection. Trying to enchant a dude only to have it pathed or removed was what I was most worried about, but like I said I'll test against some other known legacy decks.
I think that you have to protect your plays with Pattern, either by checking with Probe or by ripping away removal/permission with Therapy.
Very nice deck; I'm between building this and Melira combo for a robust combo deck that is MM resilient. One of my primary interests in this is that I have most of the cards and I'd essentially need to shell out for duals. How important are traditional duals? Is life total an issue to the point I can't run shocklands?
Is Scarland Thrinax a possibility? Its a GSZ target sac outlet.
What if they Plow your Sac Outlet in response to Body Double triggering in the grave as Reveillark?
Sac Mogg Fanatic. Viscera Seer sacs a Body Double that is Reveillark. Body Double hits the grave, Rev ability triggers. In response to the trigger they Plow your Sac Outlet (Seer or Feeder).
EDIT: Sadly, I think this current combo loses to removal if your opponent is smart.
There are four solutions to this:
1. Attack with Xantid Swarm before going off.
2. Cabal Therapy exists.
3. Gitaxian Probe exists.
4. Just get another sac outlet. Phyrexian Tower in play and Cabal Therapy in your Graveyard will also work.
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Legacy Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
1. Attack with Xantid Swarm before going off.
2. Cabal Therapy exists.
3. Gitaxian Probe exists.
4. Just get another sac outlet. Phyrexian Tower in play and Cabal Therapy in your Graveyard will also work.
Couldn't you also sac your sac outlet to itself so it goes to your graveyard instead of exiled then return it with the Reveillark?
Couldn't you also sac your sac outlet to itself so it goes to your graveyard instead of exiled then return it with the Reveillark?
Wow. Easier solution. I did not even notice this.
In response to the Swords to Plowshares, sacrifice the sac outlet to itself.
It goes to the Graveyard.
Reveillark triggers, returning Body Double and your sac outlet.
Body Double copies Reveillark.
Sacrifice Body Double to the sac outlet.
Infinite combo yet again.
This combo is even more resilient than I thought it was.
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Legacy Currently playing:
Merfolk
EDH Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
I play a previous version of the deck of xantid (with green wish instead of Green sun zenith) since few month and I can confirm that this deck is really strong. The most annoying thing is to explain the combo every match... The first time I played it in tournament a made 1 draw by explaining the combo during 10 minutes to a beginner. At the end of the day a wasn't sure how the deck was working because of how many stupid question I answered.
In my mind the wall of roots can go out to go to 60 cards.
The next out for me would be 1 pattern but I'm not sure because it's a "part" of the combo even though there are few "double" sac outlet witch work with it.
^ Yeah I'll go with the above as true. Actually, sometimes I feel like it's harder for me (as the pilot) to do as Xantid said and make optimal plays with the deck. One thing that I am finding out though that is savage tech is definitely the Gitaxian Probes with the Cabal Therapies. They destroy opposing hands that would present a larger overall threat to our strategy.
However I understand that while No-ing our guys is the A plan, Proclaiming can be a 2 for 1. I guess what I'm trying to say is that most times I am finding proclamation is worse post board. If the opponent has enough removal, they usually will leave mana up to disrupt the combo. Anyway it might just be me, but I am finding zoo-like decks to be a hard match-up. However, luckily in the current meta with mental misstep this is not a huge portion of the metagame.
Anyways just thought that I'd share my insight on how the deck was playing. Still don't really wanna take out procs in game 2 because I don't know if there's any better sideboard stuff, but I'll try to get a handle on it.
I thought this too. Actually doesn't work if your opponent casts Plow at the right moment.
If they cast Plow in response to Reveillark's ability triggering in the grave, you will have already chosen the targets for its ability (Body Double and Mogg Fanatic) so the opportunity to sac your sac outlet to itself and target it with the Reveillark ability has passed.
If you have something like a Cabal Therapy in grave, you can also just sac your guy and get the other sac outlet on the next run-through.
Once the combo go off, the deck is extremly resilient. If you know how to play it, you almost can't lose after Hulk trigger. As I told in the primer, Academy Rector is a star to combo through hate or removal. I guess I did'nt gave enough explanation.
This is the right line of play to combo around 1 removal spell:
1. Hulk's trigger resolve: get 1 Academy Rector + Viscera Seer + Carrion Feeder + all Dryads Arbor still in the deck (total cmc=6);
2. Sac Rector to Feeder (at this point opponent need 2 sword to mess with you);
3. Get Pattern of Rebirth with the Rector trigger and put it on a Dryad Arbor (this do not target and opponent have no opprtunity to break you);
4. Sac Dryad Arbor, Pattern trigger, get your second Hulk (or a Body Double copying Hulk in grave);
5. From there, you can get Reveillark + Mogg Fanatic. With only 1 removal spell there is no way to stop you.
Against crypt or relic, simply get Rector + Qasali Pridemage from Hulk trigger, break the artifact with Pridemage and then combo off from Rector. Take note that this only work with Feeder or Seer on play, through.
Against Leyline of the Void, you need to GSZ for Pridemage before going anywere, except that you can simply cast NO for Progenitus.
Against Extirpate or Stifle: this time there is no out - you must attack with Xantid Swarm first or use Cabal Therapy. Or use Progenitus...
Never forget the Progenitus B plan. As opponent side-in lot of grave hate or keep lot of removal in hand, he weaken is deck and strategy. On your side, you'll win a lot of game (more often game 2 or 3) with your 10/10...
Anyways all in all I'll have to see if pattern of rebirth seems too greedy with no protection. Trying to enchant a dude only to have it pathed or removed was what I was most worried about, but like I said I'll test against some other known legacy decks.
I also want to adress this. The point is true: a remove spell on the target of pattern of rebirth is a painful 2-for-1. Try to avoid casting Pattern against an untapped Plain unless you can attack with a Swarm first or see opponent's hand with a Therapy or a Probe.
But in the course of a real game, this do not matter a lot because opponents tend to use removal on your creature before you cast Pattern. It's a risky shot to not sword a Birds of Paradise that will permit you to get to 4 mana and cast Natural Order.
In my mind the wall of roots can go out to go to 60 cards.
Do not underestimate him. Sure the deck can work properly without Wall of Roots, but it's very useful to have at least 1 copy. Against Zoo or Goblin, it's often your prime GSZ target. As a blocker against a 4/5 Goyf he can also give you a few crucial turns. If you cut it main, at least put one copy in the side for aggro matchups.
Please do not double post. Use the edit button if you need to add content to your post in the future.
3) Grab Viscera Seer, Carrion Feeder, Reveillark, AND Body Double targeting Protean Hulk.
4) Sac Body Double to grab Mogg Fanatic + 5 power worth of other stuff (with "5 power of other stuff"... could there be a side option to counter Extirpate/Relic/etc?)
You seem to think that protean hulk grabs creatures with total power 6 or less. It grabs creatures with total CMC 6 or less, so getting body double AND rev as you suggest in step 3 is inpossible.
The way to dodge a single removal spell is to get Academy rector, viscera seer and carion feeder as well as the dryad arbors left in the deck. Sac the rector, get a pattern that is put into play and dosen't target (as it's put into play by the rector's ability) and you are good to go. Of course that plan COULD fail to an engineered explosives @1 or a double removal. Don't get all too worried about unwinable scenarios. They happen, but if you play smart you should be alright in most cases.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
For instance, I top 4ed a small legacy event with a pyromancer ascension combo deck last week...
A modification I would like to try out is to swap a fetchland, a bayou and a savanna for a trio of cities of brass. I would also like the deck creator's opinion on that matter. I proxied-up and goldfished the deck a couple times and found out that at moments, holding a body double or a fanatic can be troublesome although casting it could possibly make things better. Tinder wall's removal ability is also nice to activate in the face of hate bears, which can be very annoying.
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
A modification I would like to try out is to swap a fetchland, a bayou and a savanna for a trio of cities of brass. I would also like the deck creator's opinion on that matter. I proxied-up and goldfished the deck a couple times and found out that at moments, holding a body double or a fanatic can be troublesome although casting it could possibly make things better.
I don't recommand to cut the Savannah, because you'll lose access to white mana with your fetchlands. Also, your proposition will mean you only have 5 targets for 8 fetchlands, and only 3 that give you mana immediatly.
What you can do for sure is to cut 1 fetchland for 1 Taiga, giving you access to red mana for Tinder Wall activation and casting Mogg Fanatic. I did run a list with 8 fetchlands, 3 Bayou, 1 Savannah, 1 Taiga, 1 Forest during couple of months and it's ok.
Casting Body Double pre-combo matter less often and remember that if needed, you can still do it with Birds of Paradise, Wild Cantor, GSZ for Birds / Cantor and Carpet of Flowers from sideboard. I do not recommand to run Tropical Island because it's nice to be able to block Merfolks.
I'll sure consider that. For whatever reason I proxied up a version that had 2 savannas, and I considered reducing to 2 bayous and 1 savanna, not to a savanna-less version. Anyway it's simply proxying...
Do you ever come to tournaments in Québec City?
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Awesome primer man. I have the cards to sleeve this one up, I can't wait to try it out.
So you definitely would not recommend cutting down to 60? I'd cut a Probe because I feel it isn't a guaranteed free card because of the things like Chalice kicking around but it looks to work way too well with Cabal Therapy to consider going down to 3. I don't like the idea of not playing a full playset of Pattern of Rebirth either because it's one of the combo pieces, or cutting anything that's quick mana or mana acceleration (Ancient Tomb, Birds, etc.) Nothing else I can cut to get this thing down to 60 comfortably? Playing it as lean as possible always seems to work out better than not.
@ Xwt: If you proxied a version with 2 Savannah, you can certanly cut 1 for 1 Taiga. If you finnaly go with 3 City of Brass, tell me how it's doing for you. And for the other question, I did not play in Québec City until now but I'll try to go for the next 1K tournement at L'Imaginaire. And you? Any chance to see you in Montreal for the Canadian Magic Tour next weekend?
@ Stinky-Dinkins: For now, I'm playing 61 cards main and it's working well. As the list is very tight, it's hard to cut anything. The deck also work with 3 Pattern of Rebirth and if you absolutly want to go to 60, I'll recommand to cut 1 Pattern. After all, you only need 1 Pattern or Natural Order to win. But after testing, I finnaly choose to keep 4 Pattern (61 cards) because:
- It's good against Hymn to tourach decks
- Sideboarding is easier when you can cut 1 Pattern
- Against Show and Tell decks, you want 4 Pattern
For instance, I top 4ed a small legacy event with a pyromancer ascension combo deck last week...
A modification I would like to try out is to swap a fetchland, a bayou and a savanna for a trio of cities of brass. I would also like the deck creator's opinion on that matter. I proxied-up and goldfished the deck a couple times and found out that at moments, holding a body double or a fanatic can be troublesome although casting it could possibly make things better. Tinder wall's removal ability is also nice to activate in the face of hate bears, which can be very annoying.
Isn't this the perpose f Cantor and Tinder Wall? Grab them off the hulk trigger that would vet whatever is stuck n then hardcast it.
I actually am using Death Cultist over Mog since Cultist is castible, but I see no functional difference. I'm really liking this deck a ton due to it's resiliency and near-immunity to counterspells
EDIT: on resistance to StP. If you run a second Revellark you got it.
Have: sac outlet, Hulk.
Sac Hulk, fetch Body Double and sac outlet.
Sac Body Double, fetch Revillark and sac outlet
Sac Revillark, choose Body Double [ this will ETB as a Hulk[ (this is where traditional weakness is)
Sac Double, grab Revillark and Mogg Fanatic/Death Cultist.
Sac Mog, Revillark targeting Body Double and Mogg Fanatic
Not only does this give you 3 sac outlets (assuming you start with one), but if someone tries to disrupt you in the weak-spot, just sac to itself, and grab a sac outlet instead of Mogg Fanatic, then combo off by doing the Body Double as Hulk one more time. I think that 2 Revillarks let you go off through a Leyline of Sanctity too, and posdibly a Leyline of the void. I'm going to work on that.
Not sure if it's worth it to put the extra Revillark in there but it does make you immune.
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Primer - Hulk Rebirth
General Description
Hulk Rebirth is a deck that use Natural Order to find Protean Hulk and do a kill combo with it. Progenitus is backup if the combo somehow fizzles. Obviously, combing out consistently and early is important, so the deck uses four of both Natural Order and Pattern of Rebirth, as well as many ways to kill your Hulk.
Hulk Rebirth is robust and flexible as a deck. Undisrupted, it’s a pretty consistent turn three killer. Cards like Cabal Therapy, which is also good for getting your combo off, and Xantid Swarm, the deck can also very easily break through the walls of countermagic featured in a lot of modern legacy decks. Hulk Rebirth is also surprisingly resilient against graveyeard hate and very consistent even when attacked by discard spells. In fact, when you play Hulk Rebirth, it’s easy to be in a position where a lot of draws will win you the game on the spot. Very often, Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, and Academy Rector feel like four mana win-the-game spells. When you have seven mana available, something that you can regularly reach on turn 3 to 5 with all the mana accelerants the deck has, you can also win on the spot with a topdecked Protean Hulk. At eight mana, you can even Green Sun’s Zenith directly into the Hulk. At this point, it’s a real nightmare for a slow control deck unable to present a fast clock, as they are assured to run out of counter-magic before you’ll run out of treats.
The main goal of the deck is to get a Protean Hulk into play, which as mentioned above is generally via Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth. You then kill it in some way with one of the many sac-outlets at your disposal. From that point, you normally win at instant speed: the Hulk’s triggered ability gets you a Body Double (who comes into play as a copy of Protean Hulk) and a Viscera Seer or a Carrion Feeder. You sacrifice your Body Double into the black creature to get a new Hulk trigger and search for Reveillark and Mogg Fanatic. Fanatic pings the opponent for one, then you sacrifice Reveillark into the Seer/Feeder to get back Fanatic and Body Double. This time, Body Double comes into play as a copy of Reveillark. You ping again with Fanatic and then sacrifice your new Reveillark to get back... Mogg Fanatic and Body Double again! From that point it’s an infinite loop.
The basic game plan is generally this:
Turn 1: Mana acceleration. Ex: Birds of Paradise or GSZ into Dryad Arbor
Turn 2: Disruption. Ex: Cabal Therapy or GSZ into Xantid Swarm
Turn 3: Kill. Ex:Natural Order & Pattern of Rebirth
When one sac-outlet is missing to complete the main combo, the deck also feature the more traditional target for Natural Order: Progenitus. A bit slow compared to the fast kill Hulk can provide, the big Hydra is still enough to get the job done in a lot of situations (and you can get it into play as fast as turn 2 with some help from Ancient Tomb or Tinder Wall). It’s the solid B plan. Remember that both Natural Order and Pattern of Rebirth can got you Progenitus when needed.
Finally, try to not forget every opportunity to turn yours creatures sideways, because when all else fails, the little damage that your various 1/1's can do can add up. I have won games with this deck attacking with Dryads Arbor under Standstill against an unlucky opponent who do not find a Wasteland or Factories. I also won a couple of games with a 5/5 or 6/6 Carrion Feeder or with Reveillark or Protean Hulk attacks... I even vividly remember a game I won with a Xantid Swarm attack under Humility. So, do not forget your attack phases, you never know.
The Deck
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Tinder Wall
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Viscera Seer
1 Starved Rusalka
1 Wild Cantor
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Wall of Roots
1 Academy Rector
1 Body Double
1 Reveillark
2 Protean Hulk
1 Progenitus
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pattern of Rebirth
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
Lands (21)
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Gaea’s Cradle
Take note it’s a 61 cards list. If you absolutely want to reduce the list to 60, the most reasonable choice is to cut a Pattern of Rebirth, but I dislike the idea of not playing a full playset. Cutting a Gitaxian Probe is lame, as the card took almost no real place in the deck and is generally amazing, particularly in game 1. Cutting a Bird is also a possibility, but I’ll not recommend it as Birds of Paradise is generally your best turn 1 play. All the rest is untouchable in my opinion.
Deck Dissection
Another crucial thing is to be able to generate green mana on turn one. Unless you mulligan to 5 or less or you are sure your opponent is not playing Wasteland/Sword to Plowshare/Lightning Bolt, never keep an hand with Dryad Arbor as your only green source. This is the reason why I think the total count of fetchlands + Forest + Bayou + Savannah can’t go under 14.
As everyone knows, the fetchlands (3 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Wooded Foothills, 2 Misty Rainforest, 2 Windswepth Heath) are amazing. They get you your critical green mana sources, including those that produce multiple colors of mana and Dryad Arbor. This flexibility and the natural immunity they provide to Wasteland explains why I choose to play nine even if it exposes you at the little risk of running out of targets in the deck. Playing a mix like that (3-2-2-2) is optimal against Pithing Needle and Extirpate. These are niche cases, but it is something to think about.
1 Forest – Essential. You know, Wasteland is a card in this format (and also Back to Basics, Magus of the Moon, Path to Exile...)
3 Bayou – This is generally the default target of the first fetchland you crack on the play. Black is the second colour of the deck, and 3 Bayou guarantee you you’ll never run out of them.
1 Savannah – White is needed to cast only 2 cards main deck (Academy Rector and Reveillark) but you want to be able to do it when you need – particularly the Rector. Just remember you only have one, so do not expose your Savannah to enemy Wastelands without a good reason.
2 Dryad Arbor – Awful cards to draw, amazing cards to have in the deck. Those Dryads do very important things to make the deck work properly: they can be fetched and they allow you to use Green Sun’s Zenith as Llanowar Elves. Once in play they have so much utility, it’s hard to believe: they are targets for Pattern of Rebirth, food for Natural Order or flashbacked Cabal Therapy, chump blocker, they can kill a Goblin Lackey or a Dark Confidant (or even, in pair, a Gadock Teeg), they raise the count for Gaea’s Cradle, they get sacrificed into Phyrexian Tower, or to Viscera Seer when you dig for a game winning top deck. Two Dryad Arbor is the right count: you’ll sometimes be sad that you aren't running three, because those little Dryad get killed very easily, but three would be a nightmare for starting hands.
3 Ancient Tomb – These provide a lot of explosiveness on early turns. They give you a realistic chance of casting Natural Order for Progenitus on turn 2, as well as helping you to play all your key spells a turn faster. Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, Green Sun’s Zenith and Academy Rector all benefit from this. Three is the right number, because you are generally happy to see one Tomb, but typically do not want to see a second one.
1 Gaea’s Cradle – In many ways, it’s your fourth Ancient Tomb, with the added bonuses of providing green mana and in crazy quantities at no life payment, but also with the disadvantage of giving just one or zero mana on occasion . You’ll appreciate the ability to fetch out a Dryad Arbor when you have Cradle in hand or in play. Take note that Cradle can allow Turn two-win, a feat that Hulk Rebirth is generally unable to achieve without the Slaughter Pacts from the sideboard (Turn 1: Forest, Birds; Turn 2: Cabal Therapy, Tinder Wall, Cradle for GG, sac Tinder Wall for RR, Natural Order). I play only one Cradle because it’s less consistent than Tomb to provide two mana (obviously, there is also the legendary rule).
1 Phyrexian Tower – A versatile land: you can tap it for 1 colorless or use it as a two-mana land at the cost of one creature. But the main reason to play the Tower is as an additional (and sometime crucial) sac-outlet.
I know this big list of singletons turns some heads, and makes my list look a bit like one from Vintage, but all those numbers and names make sense.
4 Birds of Paradise – Most of the time, this is your best turn one play. You are always happy with a Birds in your starting seven. These Mana Birds generally allow you to have access to 3 or 4 mana on turn 2.
2 Tinder Wall, 1 Wild Cantor – These three creatures are needed in the deck to be able to hardcast a Reveillark or a Body Double from your hand after you sacked Protean Hulk. They also play the role of mana accelerators and are excellent targets for Pattern of Rebirth. Remember that sacking Tinder Wall for RR or Wild Cantor is a mana ability (and don't use the stack) so you can sacrifice your Wall with a Pattern on it even when your opponent targets the enchantment with a Krosan Grip. Also note that Tinder Wall is able to block a significant number of creatures (Lackey, Teeg, Confident...). Do not forget the Tinder Wall’s second ability! Rarely useful, but those 2 point of damage on a blocked creature can sometime win you the game if the creature in question is Gaddock Teeg or Tidehollow Sculler.
1 Wall of Roots – Another mana accelerator that doubles as an excellent blocker. You sometimes need your Wall of Roots to cast a Pattern of Rebirth against an opponent holding a Pyrokinesis, a Fireblast, or simply a Lightning Bolt.
1 Carrion Feeder, 1 Viscera Seer – Combo pieces that you fetch when you sac Hulk. These also help you to go off. Each one has it's own specific advantages. Feeder can become very big and laugh at your enemy’s Leyline of Sanctity or Pithing Needle naming Mogg Fanatic. Seer can block and allow you to dig for a top deck if you are in the posture of do-or-die. Playing two with two different names give you a sort of immunity against Pithing Needle’s effects as well.
1 Starved Rusalka – As long as Wizard doesn't print a green Carrion Feeder, this will be a necessary evil. Starved Rusalka is a very bad creature, but having it in the deck turns all your Green Sun’s Zenith in potentials sac-outlets.
1 Xantid Swarm – In a combo deck playing 4 Green’s Sun Zenith, against a metagame where 60% to 80% of the decks are playing 4 Force of Will (and often a lot of other counters), there is no question that Xantid Swarm is a must. But Xantid Swarm is not only good against counters: the little insect allows you to play Pattern of Rebirth without fear of removal and makes your opponents who bring Extirpate from sideboard look stupid. Finally, as a green creature, Xantid Swarm can be sacked for Natural Order...
1 Fauna Shaman – You need Fauna Shaman in those situations when there is no Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth or Academy Rector in your hand. Thanks to mana accelerator, Green Sun’s Zenith can get her in play on turn 2. Fauna Shaman can get you a sac outlet and an Academy Rector to combo off or a lot of other things.
1 Academy Rector – With a Feeder or a Seer, Rector allow you to combo out instantly, so it’s like your ninth four mana “I win” card. He can also come into play as a result of the Hulk’s trigger to allow you some shenanigan to get around hate pieces (more about this in the section on strategies).
2 Protean Hulk, 1 Body Double, 1 Reveillark, 1 Mogg Fanatic – The combo engine. They are not as dead of cards as it may seam. Mogg Fanatic from a Birds or a Tinder Wall can kill some annoying creatures pre-combo. You’ll be surprise how often you’ll be able to hard cast a Protean Hulk, sometime as early as turn 3. Reveillark can be a good blocker/beater who bring back some creatures you need to win. Even Body Double can be useful pre-combo, if you have the chance of having a Birds or your Wild Cantor to cast it.
1 Progenitus – A great plan B, enough to get you the game in a lot of situations. The sad thing about running it is, as everybody know, the possibility of drawing it. There are a few ways to get rid of him in your hand (Cabal Therapy on yourself, Fauna Shaman) that most of the time you just need to forget about it and try the main combo.
4 Pattern of Rebirth – Natural Order number 5 to 8. They assure the consistency of the deck. Just be aware of the removal in opponents hand before playing them (playing this against an untapped plain is a risky shot) and be sure you can sac the target immediately after, without letting priority go. Note that Pattern can fetch any creature, not just green ones (something that rarely matters, but still).
4 Cabal Therapy – A Therapy is a good disruption weapon doubled in combo piece for the deck. Sweet to have in hand, very sweet to have in grave. Turn one, against an Island, you almost always name Force of Will. Latter in the game, the same Therapy can get rid of another Force of Will to allow you to cast Natural Order into Progenitus, or it will permit you to go off instantly. The best hands always include this + Natural Order.
4 Gitaxian Probe – Another sweet card. Played on turn 1, the information Probe give you permit you to organize your strategy for the game: do you need to play around a Daze? Around a Spell Snare? Later, at almost no cost, Probe allow you to know if you can cast Natural Order right now or if you need to Zenith for Xantid Swarm or use a Therapy from the grave first. By the way, the synergy with Therapy is awesome and can be back breaking for the opponent if he holds more than one copy of the same card in hand.
4 Green Sun’s Zenith – Awesome card, never play less than 4 of it. X=0 brings you a Dryad Arbor. X=1 can put into play a Xantid Swarm around Mental Misstep (so sweet to see the face of the Fish player who failed to use his Force of Will against your GSZ – oups, too late...). It can also offer you a 2 mana boost for the next turn (Tinder Wall) or the missing sac outlet (Rusalka). If you lack a combo piece, X=2 get you Fauna Shaman. Late game, you’ll even find yourself casting it for 8 mana to get an instant win with Protean Hulk. In fact, GSZ gives you so much flexibility and options, it’s sometimes very hard to play it optimally.
Not Good Enough for Main Deck
These are the cards that just weren't good enough or didn't make the cut.
Qasali Pridemage – I tried it main deck for awhile, but quickly made the decision that game 1, he just did not do enough to justify running him, even as a singleton target for Zenith.
Taiga – I used to play 1 Taiga during a time where there was also 4 Tinder Wall in the deck (as the Taiga can be used to cast Mogg Fanatic and to pay for Tinder Wall’s second ability). With only two Tinder Wall now, I can’t justify the Taiga anymore, and the ninth fetchland took it’s place.
Sylvan Library – A close call. Sylvan Library is a very good card that almost always will win you the game shortly after you play it. It’s just hard to fit it in the deck. For GP Providence, I cut the fourth Pattern to squeeze one main deck. I’m still undecided about it, feel free to try it. For now, I choose to not play it main deck because it’s nice to turn opposing Spell Snares into dead cards.
Swamp – Some people suggest it, but I really believe that 14 turn 1 green sources is the minimum to avoid too much mulligan. Swamp would take the place of an Ancient Tomb, and I wouldn't like having only 2 of them.
Sideboard
I'm always tinkering with the Sideboard. My actual 15 is this:
4 Slaughter Pact
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Krosan Grip
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Sylvan Library
4 Carpet of Flowers – As long as we are in a meta filled with blie, I’ll play a full playset of these. The more mana the deck can generate, the better it works. Carpets can turn all your Green Sun’s Zenith into instants wins. With two of them and a Tinder Wall, it’s even possible to hardcast a Progenitus!
4 Slaughter Pact – You side these in against any deck that can play Gadock Teeg, one of the worst enemies of the deck. You would also use it against a lot of things like Meddling Mage, Iona, Aven Mindcensor, Painter’s Servant, and many others. Even when the hate bears don’t show up, the Pacts accelerate your deck significantly by providing a way to kill Protean Hulk for no mana (turn 2 Natural Order + Slaughter Pact is a very fast kill). This why I also side in the full playset of Pacts against Storm Combo.
1 Qasali Pridemage – Very important sideboard card. You should almost always bring it in if you think opponent is bringing in the grave-hate. With Pridemage in the deck, you can use Zenith to get rid of problematic artifacts and enchantments. Prime examples includ Leyline of the Void, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt, but there are many others. The best part of it is that you can bring the Pridemage alongside Academy Rector as a result of Hulk’s trigger. That way, you can break a Crypt or a Relic before going off via your Rector, virtually ignoring the first hate piece in play.
2 Krosan Grip – When Counterbalance was largely played, this was a must. Still good against various deck and needed in a lot of situations.
2 Xantid Swarm – Obviously, you side this in this against anything running Force of Wills. I used to play only 2 in my 75 (1 main, 1 side) but I’m going to test a third because the situation where I can’t Zenith for Swarm anymore actually came around.
2 Sylvan Library – Bring them against decks playing a strong discard suit (Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize, ect) and against slow control decks, where paying life does not matter a lot. Even with an empty hand, Library generally wins you the game a few turns after landing.
Other Cards to Consider for Sideboard
City of Solitude – Dodge Mental Misstep and Spell Snare, stop Crypt, Relic, Faerie Macabre, Top, ect, ect, ect
Vexing Shusher – I decided against running him after testing with him, because it costs too much mana to use him effectively.
Thoughtseize – I used to play few of them for a long time, but they were not as good as they seemed.
How to Side
The most difficult part of sideboarding is not to choosing what to bring in, but what to take out. You do not want to reduce too much of the combo. Never cut a Green Sun’s Zenith (always cut Birds instead) or a Cabal Therapy (too good!). Always keep both Tinder Wall to be able to hard cast a Reveillark or Body Double as you sac Hulk. What you can cut:
- Against blue matchups, bring in 4 Carpet of Flowers. You can then cut few Birds and lands (not green lands: I'm talking about Tombs, Tower, or Cradle). If your opponent plays no Wasteland or other mana denial, you can probably cut 4 or 5 mana sources (otherwise, you probably can still cut up to 3 mana source to bring the Carpets).
- Against non blue deck you can normally take out Xantid Swarm.
- Against decks that cannot deal or race a 10/10 with protection from everything, you can put yourself on the “Progenitus plan” and take out 1 Protean Hulk, 1 Starved Rusalka, 1 Seer or Feeder (not both!), 1 Academy Rector
- Against fast combo decks, you can take out the “slow cards”: Rusalka, Progenitus, Academy Rector, Wall of Roots, 1 Dryad Arbor (keep 1), Fauna Shaman;
- You can generally cut 1 or 2 Pattern of Rebirth without too much problem (but I don’t recommend cutting two against Hymn to Tourach decks)
- The 4 Gitaxian Probes main can be seen as a flexible spot where you can put cards post board without weakening the combo or losing options. You can almost always cut 1 to 4 Gitaxian Probe to make room for sideboards cards.
- Against fast aggro deck, when those 2 life lost can matter, it’s in fact probably a good idea to cut 2 to 4 Probes. In some matchup, when you need to enter a lot of cards, it’s often okay to cut some probes.
Important Strategies
Except against fastest combo you are generally the aggressor. Your line of play must always put you in position to win or to have a good shot at winning next turn or the next. Birds almost always comes out on the first turn when possible.
Counting Your Sac Outlets
Your main sac outlets are Cabal Therapy in grave, Viscera Seer, and Carrion Feeder. Phyrexian Tower, Starved Rusalka, and Natural Order are other ones you’ll find yourself using from time to time.
With Feeder or Seer in play, resolving Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, or Academy Rector generally means instant win.
Each Therapy in grave is a precious resource, as they can act to get rid of a Force in hand late game or, when you keep them in grave, they count as sac outlet, but remember you can use each of them only once.
How to Play Against Blue Mages
Blues matchups are almost always the most skill testing matches, but for a combo deck, Hulk Rebirth is very capable of beating blue and far from being resource less.
Each blue decks are different animal but they generally share in common one powerful card, Force of Will.
Your main tools to beat Force of Will decks are Cabal Therapy and Green Sun’s Zenith for Xantid Swarm and, to a lesser extend, Gitaxian Probe, allowing you to see if the way is free or if you have to wait a bit before going off. Another tool is the simple redundancy you have by running 4 Natural Order, 4 Pattern of Rebirth, 1 Academy Rector, 4 Green Sun’s Zenith and 2 Protean Hulk. They just can’t counter them all!
Playing Against/Around Mental Misstep
If you have seen the Mental Misstep, or are uncertain they have one in hand, your best game plan is to use up less important 1-drops first. For example, if you have 2 sac outlets (Feeder and Seer), but only 1 Birds of Paradise, you will play a Feeder/Seer first to get try and get the Misstep out, and then play your Birds + your second sac outlet. In the reverse, if you are mana flooded, you’ll throw in your 1-drop mana source first in hope to get rid of Misstep and then get your crucial 1 drop pass.
Another possibility when you have a GSZ is simply to skip your first turn and then, on turn 2, to Zenith for Xantid Swarm (if you have an Ancient Tomb, you can even do that around Daze or around Spell Snare). You can then, on turn 3, play all your 1-drops without fear (and often win on turn 4).
I tend to play Gitaxian Probe immediately on the opening. The information it provides will tell you which cards you are going to want play, and the card drawing permits you to know exactly what your tools to do it are. But there is also some merits to wait with a Probe for the turn you go off, to be sure the way is free, if your hand is good enough without the cantrip.
How To Combo Around Removal
Pre-combo, creature removals can be anoying as losing mana dude can slow you down and losing a Xantid Swarm can be very bad. But when you go off, you are normaly able to always sac you creature at instant speed at any moment, so one removal spell can't stop you.
Always keep priority when Protean Hulk came into play and sac it immediatly. Opponent have no room to anwser. You then get Academy Rector + Viscera Seer + Carrion Feeder + all Dryads Arbor still in the deck. From that point, Rector get you a Pattern of Rebirth for a second Hulk and you can still go off, even if opponent hold a removal spell. Unless you are sure your opponent has nothing in hand, it's always safer to combo out that way when possible.
Playing Against Hate
Sometimes opponents will bring a lot of hate to fight our combo game 2. Do not forget the big 10/10 Hydra, often a nice way to win against a lot of hate...
Grave Hate – Always bring in your 1 Pridemage if you think there is a chance you’ll see Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus or Leyline of the Void.
Against 1 Crypt or Relic, you can generally go off easily if you already have a Seer or Feeder in play. Fetch 1 Academy Rector + 1 Qasali Pridemage as result of the first Hulk’s trigger. Use the Pridemage to destroy the artifact, then sac Rector to go off again.
Stifle, Extirpate – If you see these cards in the opponent's hand (via Therapy or Probe) or think opponent has a good chance of holding one of them, it’s probably better to try to win via Progenitus, if you are not able to get rid of them via Therapy or to attack with Swarm before going off.
How To Combo With Pieces in Hand
Having a Reveillark, a Body Double or a Mogg Fanatic in hand generally does not stop you from using the combo. Use the Hulk’s trigger to get Wild Cantor+2 Tinder Wall to hard cast the combo piece you hold, and from there, you can continue to go off.
Matchup Analysis
Any Show and Tell Variants or Hypergenesis Cascade: Complete Blow-Out
Once you know what your opponent is playing, you can mulligan properly and you almost can’t lose. Just let them resolve Show and Tell or Hypergenesis and win from it.
Dredge: Very Favourable
Try to always have a creature that can sac itself (or better, that can sac others) in play, as fast as possible. Remove their Bridge from Bellow in response to the trigger. Without bridges Dredge is slowed enough that you’ll be able to race it.
Merfolk: Very Favourable (Mono-Blue) to Favourable (Splash)
Before Misstep, the deck used to be a complete blow-out in favour of Hulk Rebirth. Playing no Brainstorm, Merfolk can’t hide their Force of Wills from our Cabal Therapy. With no removal in the mono-colored version, Xantid Swarm will often spell good game for Folk. Finally, you play 8 spells that they must all counter... with only 4 counters. Sure, there is Daze, but you can generally play around it.
Since the advent Mental Misstep, the matchup got a little better for the blue tribe, but it’s still a highly favourable matchup. The main bad thing is the fact they can now protect their Force of Will from our Therapy. This will often oblige us to re-use a Therapy from grave to get rid of the free counter, sometimes meaning we have no more sac outlets and need to take the Progenitus road.
Slow Control Decks (MUC, Landstill, etc): Favourable to Even
A lot of things make these matchups good for us. First, slower control decks tend to use playsets of Spell Snare, a card we are almost immune to. Also, in a long game, you have a good chance to reach 7 or 8 mana, with probably at least 1 Therapy in grave. At this point, you have so many topdecks that can just win you the game.
Just be sure not to overextend yourself, because these decks generally pact some form of mass removal. The best way not to is to play only one Xantid Swarm at a time.
Aggro Decks (Goblins, Zoo): Favourable
Do not underestimate these matchups. Sometimes, they can destroy your creatures and put you in an awkward position. Wall of Roots is an important card against Red aggro decks, not only to block attackers, but also as a Pattern of Rebirth target that can survive Pyrokinesis and Fireblast. Against Zoo or GW Maverick, do not forget your Slaughter Pacts from the sideboard to get rid of Gadock Teeg.
Team America: Slightly Unfavourable
What makes this matchup difficult is the combination of mana-denial, counter-magic and hand disruption. Basically, everything that makes this deck what it is. Post sideboard, Carpet of Flowers can help a lot and a resolved Sylvan Library is awesome.
Counterbalance/Top: Unfavourable
We can beat Force of Will. We can endure some Sword to Plowshares. We can recover from mass removal. We can play around an active Counterbalance/Top. But when all those are smacked into one deck, it’s very hard to even struggle.
Faster Combo: Very Unfavourable
ANT, TES, Charbeltcher... those combo decks are at least 1 turn faster than we are. Post sideboard, bringing in 4 Slaughter Pacts give us a better chance of racing them.
Anyway, that is my deck! I hope you enjoyed the read. I want to thanks a lot bone_doc for his amazing job on this primer. Thanks also to Arnnaria and Piet.
If there are any spelling or formatting errors, please contact me or bone_doc. Formatted and edited by bone_doc.
I love the play style of this deck and I feel that protean hulk is just such a potent comboing machine but as I brought up previously I have two questions for this deck:
1. What happens when you draw into the stuff that you wanna search for? I guess this is the case with most combo decks that work like this, but can this deck win if you draw both a progenitus and a protean hulk? I mean I know in the primer it addresses that you can ramp to 6 mana, but I don't see that as very easy to do. If it is something that is obvious that I am missing and not a magical Christmas land scenario, then I apologize for missing it.
2. What happens when someone paths your dude? It seems like everything would come to a standstill at this point. Of course feeder and seer take care of this problem, but there are only 2 in the deck. I don't wanna suggest running mental missteps, as I think it is bad for this deck in particular, but what is the plan?
Also on a final comment for this deck: why not cut fauna shaman from the above list? It seems like it would be too slow to be useful in speeding up the combo, plus with only 1 in the deck it doesn't seem to have that much utility if the match goes into the late game.
Overall though, I like the deck and do think that it has the potential to be a contender.
I'm exited to test and build it!
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
Another possible play with 2 Hulk in hand is this (with one Cabal Therapy and one Pattern of Rebirth on a creature you can sacrifice):
1. Cabal Therapy yourself naming Protean Hulk
2. Get Body Double via Pattern of Rebirth
3. Body Double copy Protean Hulk. Flashback therapy to sac it
4. The Hulk trigger get you Academy Rector + Mogg Fanatic + Carrion Feeder
5. Sac the Rector to get another Pattern of Rebirth
6. The final Pattern get you Reveillark - infinite damage combo.
Sure, pre-combo creature removal can be an anoying as losing mana dude can slow you down and losing a Xantid Swarm can be very bad. But when you go off, you are normaly able to always sac you creature at instant speed at any moment, so removal can't stop you.
Always keep priority when Protean Hulk came into play and sac it immediatly. Opponent have no room to anwser. You then get Body Double + Seer or Feeder and from that point there is no way to stop you with Path to Exile or Sword to Plowshare as you can always sacrifice your creatures at instant speed.
Fauna Shaman is not there to speed up the combo and I know it's slow compared to Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth. The reason to play 1 Fauna Shaman is to be able to Green Sun's Zenith for her when you have no Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth in hand. In fact, if you playtest a lot you'll realise that Fauna Shaman is in fact a very frequent target of GSZ.
Ahhh... nice.
It's good to have the creator of this deck so close to the forums in order to answer any questions about it and I appreciate the responses from everyone else as well.
Anyway as I said previously I haven't gotten to play test this build much at all really (just been goldfishing a few games since I heard about it) but when I do I'm sure that I'll figure out the more intricate workings of the deck.
I'll keep posted about any concerns I run across, but the list really does look pretty tight!
Anyways all in all I'll have to see if pattern of rebirth seems too greedy with no protection. Trying to enchant a dude only to have it pathed or removed was what I was most worried about, but like I said I'll test against some other known legacy decks.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
Very nice deck; I'm between building this and Melira combo for a robust combo deck that is MM resilient. One of my primary interests in this is that I have most of the cards and I'd essentially need to shell out for duals. How important are traditional duals? Is life total an issue to the point I can't run shocklands?
Is Scarland Thrinax a possibility? Its a GSZ target sac outlet.
There are four solutions to this:
1. Attack with Xantid Swarm before going off.
2. Cabal Therapy exists.
3. Gitaxian Probe exists.
4. Just get another sac outlet. Phyrexian Tower in play and Cabal Therapy in your Graveyard will also work.
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Couldn't you also sac your sac outlet to itself so it goes to your graveyard instead of exiled then return it with the Reveillark?
Wow. Easier solution. I did not even notice this.
In response to the Swords to Plowshares, sacrifice the sac outlet to itself.
It goes to the Graveyard.
Reveillark triggers, returning Body Double and your sac outlet.
Body Double copies Reveillark.
Sacrifice Body Double to the sac outlet.
Infinite combo yet again.
This combo is even more resilient than I thought it was.
Currently playing:
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EDH
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^ Yeah I'll go with the above as true. Actually, sometimes I feel like it's harder for me (as the pilot) to do as Xantid said and make optimal plays with the deck. One thing that I am finding out though that is savage tech is definitely the Gitaxian Probes with the Cabal Therapies. They destroy opposing hands that would present a larger overall threat to our strategy.
However I understand that while No-ing our guys is the A plan, Proclaiming can be a 2 for 1. I guess what I'm trying to say is that most times I am finding proclamation is worse post board. If the opponent has enough removal, they usually will leave mana up to disrupt the combo. Anyway it might just be me, but I am finding zoo-like decks to be a hard match-up. However, luckily in the current meta with mental misstep this is not a huge portion of the metagame.
Anyways just thought that I'd share my insight on how the deck was playing. Still don't really wanna take out procs in game 2 because I don't know if there's any better sideboard stuff, but I'll try to get a handle on it.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
If you have something like a Cabal Therapy in grave, you can also just sac your guy and get the other sac outlet on the next run-through.
This is the right line of play to combo around 1 removal spell:
1. Hulk's trigger resolve: get 1 Academy Rector + Viscera Seer + Carrion Feeder + all Dryads Arbor still in the deck (total cmc=6);
2. Sac Rector to Feeder (at this point opponent need 2 sword to mess with you);
3. Get Pattern of Rebirth with the Rector trigger and put it on a Dryad Arbor (this do not target and opponent have no opprtunity to break you);
4. Sac Dryad Arbor, Pattern trigger, get your second Hulk (or a Body Double copying Hulk in grave);
5. From there, you can get Reveillark + Mogg Fanatic. With only 1 removal spell there is no way to stop you.
Against crypt or relic, simply get Rector + Qasali Pridemage from Hulk trigger, break the artifact with Pridemage and then combo off from Rector. Take note that this only work with Feeder or Seer on play, through.
Against Leyline of the Void, you need to GSZ for Pridemage before going anywere, except that you can simply cast NO for Progenitus.
Against Extirpate or Stifle: this time there is no out - you must attack with Xantid Swarm first or use Cabal Therapy. Or use Progenitus...
Never forget the Progenitus B plan. As opponent side-in lot of grave hate or keep lot of removal in hand, he weaken is deck and strategy. On your side, you'll win a lot of game (more often game 2 or 3) with your 10/10...
But in the course of a real game, this do not matter a lot because opponents tend to use removal on your creature before you cast Pattern. It's a risky shot to not sword a Birds of Paradise that will permit you to get to 4 mana and cast Natural Order.
Do not underestimate him. Sure the deck can work properly without Wall of Roots, but it's very useful to have at least 1 copy. Against Zoo or Goblin, it's often your prime GSZ target. As a blocker against a 4/5 Goyf he can also give you a few crucial turns. If you cut it main, at least put one copy in the side for aggro matchups.
Please do not double post. Use the edit button if you need to add content to your post in the future.
You seem to think that protean hulk grabs creatures with total power 6 or less. It grabs creatures with total CMC 6 or less, so getting body double AND rev as you suggest in step 3 is inpossible.
The way to dodge a single removal spell is to get Academy rector, viscera seer and carion feeder as well as the dryad arbors left in the deck. Sac the rector, get a pattern that is put into play and dosen't target (as it's put into play by the rector's ability) and you are good to go. Of course that plan COULD fail to an engineered explosives @1 or a double removal. Don't get all too worried about unwinable scenarios. They happen, but if you play smart you should be alright in most cases.
Yeah, there have been many FAR more fragile combos that have seen play.
A modification I would like to try out is to swap a fetchland, a bayou and a savanna for a trio of cities of brass. I would also like the deck creator's opinion on that matter. I proxied-up and goldfished the deck a couple times and found out that at moments, holding a body double or a fanatic can be troublesome although casting it could possibly make things better. Tinder wall's removal ability is also nice to activate in the face of hate bears, which can be very annoying.
I don't recommand to cut the Savannah, because you'll lose access to white mana with your fetchlands. Also, your proposition will mean you only have 5 targets for 8 fetchlands, and only 3 that give you mana immediatly.
What you can do for sure is to cut 1 fetchland for 1 Taiga, giving you access to red mana for Tinder Wall activation and casting Mogg Fanatic. I did run a list with 8 fetchlands, 3 Bayou, 1 Savannah, 1 Taiga, 1 Forest during couple of months and it's ok.
Casting Body Double pre-combo matter less often and remember that if needed, you can still do it with Birds of Paradise, Wild Cantor, GSZ for Birds / Cantor and Carpet of Flowers from sideboard. I do not recommand to run Tropical Island because it's nice to be able to block Merfolks.
Do you ever come to tournaments in Québec City?
So you definitely would not recommend cutting down to 60? I'd cut a Probe because I feel it isn't a guaranteed free card because of the things like Chalice kicking around but it looks to work way too well with Cabal Therapy to consider going down to 3. I don't like the idea of not playing a full playset of Pattern of Rebirth either because it's one of the combo pieces, or cutting anything that's quick mana or mana acceleration (Ancient Tomb, Birds, etc.) Nothing else I can cut to get this thing down to 60 comfortably? Playing it as lean as possible always seems to work out better than not.
@ Stinky-Dinkins: For now, I'm playing 61 cards main and it's working well. As the list is very tight, it's hard to cut anything. The deck also work with 3 Pattern of Rebirth and if you absolutly want to go to 60, I'll recommand to cut 1 Pattern. After all, you only need 1 Pattern or Natural Order to win. But after testing, I finnaly choose to keep 4 Pattern (61 cards) because:
- It's good against Hymn to tourach decks
- Sideboarding is easier when you can cut 1 Pattern
- Against Show and Tell decks, you want 4 Pattern
Isn't this the perpose f Cantor and Tinder Wall? Grab them off the hulk trigger that would vet whatever is stuck n then hardcast it.
I actually am using Death Cultist over Mog since Cultist is castible, but I see no functional difference. I'm really liking this deck a ton due to it's resiliency and near-immunity to counterspells
EDIT: on resistance to StP. If you run a second Revellark you got it.
Have: sac outlet, Hulk.
Sac Hulk, fetch Body Double and sac outlet.
Sac Body Double, fetch Revillark and sac outlet
Sac Revillark, choose Body Double [ this will ETB as a Hulk[ (this is where traditional weakness is)
Sac Double, grab Revillark and Mogg Fanatic/Death Cultist.
Sac Mog, Revillark targeting Body Double and Mogg Fanatic
Not only does this give you 3 sac outlets (assuming you start with one), but if someone tries to disrupt you in the weak-spot, just sac to itself, and grab a sac outlet instead of Mogg Fanatic, then combo off by doing the Body Double as Hulk one more time. I think that 2 Revillarks let you go off through a Leyline of Sanctity too, and posdibly a Leyline of the void. I'm going to work on that.
Not sure if it's worth it to put the extra Revillark in there but it does make you immune.
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If so, then Mogg Fanatic. If not, then Death Cultist.
Also, what happens when you draw one or two of your bulky combo pieces (i.e. Body Double, Reveillark, both Protean Hulks)?
Currently playing:
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EDH
Currently playing:
:symb::symu::symw: Sharuum, the Hegemon
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