Im in the same boat as you were mockingbird, and I cant find anything that will explain it to me. Someone please tell me?
Mono is a deprecated term that used to denote an artifact as having an activated ability that included a tap symbol.
EDIT: For example. Mox Sapphire has no tap symbol but its type is Mono Artifact, meaning you have to tap it to use it.
EDIT2: Same with Candelabra of Tawnos which is the card in the primer
Mono is a deprecated term that used to denote an artifact as having an activated ability that included a tap symbol.
EDIT: For example. Mox Sapphire has no tap symbol but its type is Mono Artifact, meaning you have to tap it to use it.
EDIT2: Same with Candelabra of Tawnos which is the card in the primer
Close, but not quite... or at least that's not what my research told me. From what I read, you didn't have to tap it to use a Mono artifact, but rather you only got the effect once per round. I think the only reason that distinction would be important (if it's right) is that Voltaic Key wouldn't make Candelabra usable again before the player's next upkeep.
Edit: ... or looking at some more things, yeah. Mono was used for artifacts to signify Tap as opposed to t.
Close, but not quite... or at least that's not what my research told me. From what I read, you didn't have to tap it to use a Mono artifact, but rather you only got the effect once per round. I think the only reason that distinction would be important (if it's right) is that Voltaic Key wouldn't make Candelabra usable again before the player's next upkeep.
Actually, there is no distinction, since Tournaments follow Oracle Text, and Mono Artifacts have long been errata'ed to be artifacts with activated abilities with [TAP] as an activation cost.
So Voltaic Key, Turnabout and other untap effects will make Candelabra and other Mono Artifacts usable again on the same turn.
Actually, there is no distinction, since Tournaments follow Oracle Text, and Mono Artifacts have long been errata'ed to be artifacts with activated abilities with [TAP] as an activation cost.
So Voltaic Key, Turnabout and other untap effects will make Candelabra and other Mono Artifacts usable again on the same turn.
I know that. I was talking hypothetically before the errata went into effect. If I didn't know, I wouldn't have opened with showing the MTGO version of Candelabra. Also, I wouldn't have legally played Crosis, the Purger for 3U for the 3 days it was legally errata'd through a computer glitch.
In other news, I've been following the Turbo Eldrazi forum on MTGthesource, and Rock Lee (Jeremiah Rudolf) has posted this version of the deck about a week ago:
I'm not entirely sure how much I like this version because Repeal is one of my favorite cards in Locus Loop Deck (New name, just off the top of my head). When a couple of people over there started complaining about the deck's weakness to RUG Delver, I proxied up the missing cards and played my MUD friend, and I found this to be less of a combo-control deck that can go aggro and closer to a Glass Cannon style deck like Modern R/G Tron, which is my modern deck of choice. So I'm at a loss of what to think of the deck at the moment, so I'm sharing it here to see what you guys think here as well.
I think it's about time we start calling the deck by its true name, Turbo Eldrazi. With Thespian's Stage making its way to the main-deck, calling it "12"-post is kind of a misnomer, don't you think?
Will it be possible to change the title of the thread?
Just to add to the primer, I want to discuss each individual "post" land.
Cloudpost is the primary ramp mechanic in Turbo Eldrazi. It enables the deck to play whatever the heck it wants, so long as it's colorless. Coupled with Candelabra of Tawnos, this allows the deck to practically "cheat" the namesake Eldrazi into play much earlier than most people expect.
With the deck hinging majority of its gameplan on this card, Cloudpost is a hot target for Wastelands and other land-destruction. Despite this, Turbo Eldrazi is perfectly functional on as low as 2 copies of this land, so long as you have a decent number of other Locus lands in play. There is no greater satisfaction in Legacy than being able to hard-cast a 10, 11 or 15 cost fatty in as early as turn 4.
If Cloudpost is the deck's enabler, then Glimmerpost is what truly legitimizes the deck. Without it, the deck just plain loses against Aggro strategies. Glimmerpost allows Turbo Eldrazi to gain obscene amounts of life, which prolongs the game, enabling you to reach the end-game. With the possible exception of Burn (if it wasn't obvious before, Turbo Eldrazi HATESPrice of Progress), there is very little an opposing Aggro player can do to you once you've gained 10, 12, or even more life with Glimmerpost.
Vesuva completes the "Post" package, which is peculiar because it isn't a Locus in the purest sense. Often, this is played as a copy of another Locus (typically Glimmerpost against Aggro, Cloudpost otherwise). There are plenty of other applications though:
Copy an opposing problematic Legendary Land to destroy it via the Legendary rule (Examples of note is Gaea's Cradle against Elves, Karakas against control, Eye of Ugin against the mirror)
Copy a basic land to get around hosers like Blood Moon and Back to Basics (Supertypes are copied, meaning Vesuva gains the "Basic" supertype, thus allowing it to dodge such effects)
I think it's about time we start calling the deck by its true name, Turbo Eldrazi. With Thespian's Stage making its way to the main-deck, calling it "12"-post is kind of a misnomer, don't you think?
Will it be possible to change the title of the thread?
I'll add work the information about the individual posts into the deck mixing your information and my information later this week.
About the title... I'm not a fan of calling the deck Turbo Eldrazi. Never liked that name. But I understand that the deck is undergoing changes that affect it on the name basis (I called the latest round of decks 13-Post and am currently testing 16-Post in UG as well as MUD splash gw). I might do 1x-Post, Teen-Post, or Locus Lands/Locus Loop as R&D continues, or I may even relent on Turbo Eldrazi despite the fact I don't like that name. Teen Post is my personal favorite at the moment. For now, I'm going to give it some more time before I change this thread's name.
Also, we need to think through ways to work through Sneaky Show. It's apparently what stopped Jeremiah Rudolf from Top 8'ing in addition to being Austin's loss in the Top 8. They're working it hard on the Source, but I want to know what you guys have to say about them as well.
This is a god-hand requiring 5-6 cards, but still. Post has nothing like this turn 1.
The problem lies in Show and Tell -> Omniscience. Once that happens what do we do? They can do this anytime Turn 1 to 3, before we have a chance to ramp up properly.
Being mono blue their counter magic will generally be a lot stronger than ours.
Yes we can try and win the counter war on the Show and Tell, but if we lose that what do we have as options?
I'm asking whether Venser, Shaper Savant targeting Omniscience will be good enough. What can they do in response? Does Trinisphere need to be considered at that point as another option? Does Cyclonic Rift go in over Repeal main board with the hope to bounce Omniscience?
Omni-tell is actually the easiest variant of the Show and Tell combo to fight against. They can do absolutely nothing against a Venser, Shaper Savant. All of their relevant spells are sorcery-speed, so there is little they can do in response to Venser's ETB effect.
Apart from Venser, Oblivion Stone also does wonders against them. It requires some thinking ahead though to make sure you have enough mana to activate when they show and tell it into play.
For me, I really don't understand why people insist on Omni-tell when Sneak Show is a far more consistent variant. Show and Tell runs more counters, and has the back-up plan of using Sneak Attack when Show and Tell is countered, discarded, or simply just too risky to use.
Omnitell just plain loses if they can't Show and Tell their key cards into play. It's not realistic to hard-cast Omniscience to be quite honest.
Thanks insaney. I'm new to legacy meta and I'm planning on going 12 post. Omni-tell was making my head hurt because I was not sure if Venser would do it by himself.
One question I have about 12 Post itself. Expedition Map is used early game on most lists. Until we get a titan and to supplement Crop Rotation. Is there a reason we don't use Exploration or Explore over Expedition Map?
I feel especially strongly about Exploration over Expedition Map. Why isn't turn 1 Misty/Trop -> Exploration -> Cloudpost one of our best plays? It seems to set up turn 2 and 3 crazily good.
Sorry if I'm asking silly/redundant questions. Like I said, kinda new at this.
Thanks insaney. I'm new to legacy meta and I'm planning on going 12 post. Omni-tell was making my head hurt because I was not sure if Venser would do it by himself.
One question I have about 12 Post itself. Expedition Map is used early game on most lists. Until we get a titan and to supplement Crop Rotation. Is there a reason we don't use Exploration or Explore over Expedition Map?
I feel especially strongly about Exploration over Expedition Map. Why isn't turn 1 Misty/Trop -> Exploration -> Cloudpost one of our best plays? It seems to set up turn 2 and 3 crazily good.
Sorry if I'm asking silly/redundant questions. Like I said, kinda new at this.
It's different for different builds (Obviously)
Exploration and Expedition map have different functions. Map is undervalued as a shuffle effect for brainstorms. With only 4 fetches in most decks, we need the shuffle.
Exploration is a pure ramp card. Map is a tutor for ramp, OR find a utility land or gain some life off glimmerposts.
What if you draw the exploration but no colored mana in your opening 7? Do you keep it? There's a lot of factors between the two.
Omni-tell is actually the easiest variant of the Show and Tell combo to fight against. They can do absolutely nothing against a Venser, Shaper Savant. All of their relevant spells are sorcery-speed, so there is little they can do in response to Venser's ETB effect.
Apart from Venser, Oblivion Stone also does wonders against them. It requires some thinking ahead though to make sure you have enough mana to activate when they show and tell it into play.
For me, I really don't understand why people insist on Omni-tell when Sneak Show is a far more consistent variant. Show and Tell runs more counters, and has the back-up plan of using Sneak Attack when Show and Tell is countered, discarded, or simply just too risky to use.
Omnitell just plain loses if they can't Show and Tell their key cards into play. It's not realistic to hard-cast Omniscience to be quite honest.
OmniTell runs 3 Show and Tell + 4 Burning Wish. That's almost as many cheats as Sneak Show's 4 SnT + 4 Sneak Attack. OmniTell does plain lose if it can't SnT anything, but it's got 7 of those to play with.
Sneak Show does tend to run more protection, but OmniTell tends to run more cantrips and search (excluding Personal Tutor and Burning Wish). Sneak Show also has a problem with killing immediately with Sneak Attack--Griselbrand raises the OHKO odds enormously, but Sneaking a lone Emrakul still doesn't necessarily seal games. (Then again, SnT + Omniscience still needs a third card to have a possibility of killing, but Omni turns more topdecks into potential bombs than Sneak Attack does.)
OmniTell and Sneak Show also flop to different hate. Ensnaring Bridge is significantly better against Sneak Show, while Oblivion Ring is somewhat better against OmniTell.
OmniTell runs 3 Show and Tell + 4 Burning Wish. That's almost as many cheats as Sneak Show's 4 SnT + 4 Sneak Attack. OmniTell does plain lose if it can't SnT anything, but it's got 7 of those to play with.
Sneak Show does tend to run more protection, but OmniTell tends to run more cantrips and search (excluding Personal Tutor and Burning Wish). Sneak Show also has a problem with killing immediately with Sneak Attack--Griselbrand raises the OHKO odds enormously, but Sneaking a lone Emrakul still doesn't necessarily seal games. (Then again, SnT + Omniscience still needs a third card to have a possibility of killing, but Omni turns more topdecks into potential bombs than Sneak Attack does.)
OmniTell and Sneak Show also flop to different hate. Ensnaring Bridge is significantly better against Sneak Show, while Oblivion Ring is somewhat better against OmniTell.
Basically, Omni-Show runs more redundancy (more tutors; burning wish) to protect its combo, while Sneak Attack runs more protection and an alternate win-combo (counters + sneak attack).
Both are still open to disruption for sure. So it is key to the matchup. Unfortunately, Turbo Eldrazi is not favored in the Show and Tell matchups, even when running hate and Venser. It's by no means unwinnable, but it's an uphill battle for sure.
Quick update: I've updated the OP with the Locus lands information.
*****
About Show and Tell (both Omni and Sneak):
The big problem with both of them is that they both are basically running the strategy of 12-Post (drop in big beaters that gain big advantage) without Locus lands, which often gives them a faster clock, but to make that faster clock, they have to trade out inevitability.
Things that one can do to Show and Tell decks:
Pithing Needle: call Griselbrand or Sneak Attack. You could even risk putting it in off their Show and Tell because I think you have the opportunity to name the card they put in before they can use that card's effect (especially risky because if they put in Emrakul, you're toast). It's not the be all, end all, but it will significantly slow them down.
Oblivion Stone: Show and Tell needs non-land permanents to win. This kills those permanents. Watch out for Stifle, but if you have 5, just bring it in with their Show and Tell.
Surgical Extraction: if you can get around Show and Tell #1 (i.e. Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, or Venser, Shaper Savant bounces the card they put in), then try to get rid of all the Show and Tells. The cheapest thing that they try to put in with Show and Tell is Griselbrand, and they cannot get that mana naturally unlike us.
I'm sure there're other things we can do to help even up the match, but those are the things that come to mind at this moment.
How are our Lands and TES match ups? I'm wondering about these two.
TES plays out pretty much like ANT if they have Tendrils main-deck during Game 1. However, new lists of TES are starting to eschew Tendrils for Empty the Warrens, so it makes the matchup a little bit more manageable pre-board, but it is still pretty unfavorable.
Admittedly, I have never tested the Lands matchup, but I would think that Turbo Eldrazi is slightly favored provided Lands has not had a lock set-up. Turbo Eldrazi's inevitability might be too much for Lands to handle, though admittedly, Crucible of Worlds + Wasteland would give you fits.
How are our Lands and TES match ups? I'm wondering about these two.
While I don't know too much about lands because I haven't played against it yet, I have played against cards the deck consistently plays. I conjecture it shouldn't be that hard because their lines of defense (Maze of Ith and Glacial Chasm) do not stop attack triggers, which means that Primeval Titan and Annihilator triggers still happen. Rishadan Port will be an extremely annoying card, but you should be able to work out playing around it without Pithing Needleing it, but it won't hurt if you can bring the game under your control by shutting it down as well. If you play Pithing Needle or Surgical Extraction, be sure to take care of Wasteland because Lands can recycle Wasteland... a lot.
And while I haven't played against TES, you can look at my analysis of ANT to see what there would apply to TES. Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm, and Chalice of the Void tend to be our best Storm breakers, so keep that in mind.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I played a local event this past Sunday with around 70-ish players... didn't finish well, unfortunately... had the bad luck of playing against Goblins who had nuts draws both games, and I lost to Jund in a very closely fought 3-games...
What's cool about this event though is that my 1st Round was a mirror match... who knew?
I won that round on the back of Candelabra of Tawnos. That card is just insane.
I daresay that Candelabra of Tawnos is a non-negotiable component of Turbo Eldrazi. Anyone who can't get their hands on at least 1 of those should look elsewhere for their Legacy deck.
I played a local event this past Sunday with around 70-ish players... didn't finish well, unfortunately... had the bad luck of playing against Goblins who had nuts draws both games, and I lost to Jund in a very closely fought 3-games...
What's cool about this event though is that my 1st Round was a mirror match... who knew?
I won that round on the back of Candelabra of Tawnos. That card is just insane.
Oh dear God, the fact that opposing Locus count towards Post counts complicates things enough.
From the sounds of it though, going X-2 (I assume from the information you give) is actually pretty good. Do you have any more details? Maybe even your list?
I daresay that Candelabra of Tawnos is a non-negotiable component of Turbo Eldrazi. Anyone who can't get their hands on at least 1 of those should look elsewhere for their Legacy deck.
I wouldn't go that far, especially because there are people where that's just not an option. Candelabra accelerates the deck by a tier (it let me drop Primeval Titan, Kozilek, drop and crack an Expedition Map, and then Top all in one move yesterday), but the deck can and does function on its own without Candelabra.
EDIT: I thought that I was having deja vu. Turns out that it is a card-for-card copy of Tony Murata's deck list that won SCG San Diego. Hooray for meticulous record keeping of showings.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
Mono is a deprecated term that used to denote an artifact as having an activated ability that included a tap symbol.
EDIT: For example. Mox Sapphire has no tap symbol but its type is Mono Artifact, meaning you have to tap it to use it.
EDIT2: Same with Candelabra of Tawnos which is the card in the primer
Close, but not quite... or at least that's not what my research told me. From what I read, you didn't have to tap it to use a Mono artifact, but rather you only got the effect once per round. I think the only reason that distinction would be important (if it's right) is that Voltaic Key wouldn't make Candelabra usable again before the player's next upkeep.
Edit: ... or looking at some more things, yeah. Mono was used for artifacts to signify Tap as opposed to t.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Actually, there is no distinction, since Tournaments follow Oracle Text, and Mono Artifacts have long been errata'ed to be artifacts with activated abilities with [TAP] as an activation cost.
So Voltaic Key, Turnabout and other untap effects will make Candelabra and other Mono Artifacts usable again on the same turn.
I know that. I was talking hypothetically before the errata went into effect. If I didn't know, I wouldn't have opened with showing the MTGO version of Candelabra. Also, I wouldn't have legally played Crosis, the Purger for 3U for the 3 days it was legally errata'd through a computer glitch.
In other news, I've been following the Turbo Eldrazi forum on MTGthesource, and Rock Lee (Jeremiah Rudolf) has posted this version of the deck about a week ago:
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Artifacts: 14
4 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Oblivion Stone
Enchantments: 3
3 Exploration
Instants: 4
4 Crop Rotation
Sorceries: 3
3 Show and Tell
4 Flusterstorm
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Spell Pierce
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Chalice of the Void
I'm not entirely sure how much I like this version because Repeal is one of my favorite cards in Locus Loop Deck (New name, just off the top of my head). When a couple of people over there started complaining about the deck's weakness to RUG Delver, I proxied up the missing cards and played my MUD friend, and I found this to be less of a combo-control deck that can go aggro and closer to a Glass Cannon style deck like Modern R/G Tron, which is my modern deck of choice. So I'm at a loss of what to think of the deck at the moment, so I'm sharing it here to see what you guys think here as well.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
1213-Post just made Top 8 at Star City Games Edison, NJ.4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Artifacts: 13
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
4 Oblivion Stone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Instants: 11
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Repeal
Sorceries: 3
3 Show and Tell
3 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Flusterstorm
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Show and Tell
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
This will be added to the Opening Post as well.
Additional Comment:
Jeremiah Rudolf's list from the same tournament:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Primeval Titan
2 Trinket Mage
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Artifacts: 11
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Instants: 11
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Flusterstorm
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Spell Pierce
1 Show and Tell
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
He came in 17th, so I'm going to add it to the Primer as well.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Will it be possible to change the title of the thread?
Cloudpost is the primary ramp mechanic in Turbo Eldrazi. It enables the deck to play whatever the heck it wants, so long as it's colorless. Coupled with Candelabra of Tawnos, this allows the deck to practically "cheat" the namesake Eldrazi into play much earlier than most people expect.
With the deck hinging majority of its gameplan on this card, Cloudpost is a hot target for Wastelands and other land-destruction. Despite this, Turbo Eldrazi is perfectly functional on as low as 2 copies of this land, so long as you have a decent number of other Locus lands in play. There is no greater satisfaction in Legacy than being able to hard-cast a 10, 11 or 15 cost fatty in as early as turn 4.
If Cloudpost is the deck's enabler, then Glimmerpost is what truly legitimizes the deck. Without it, the deck just plain loses against Aggro strategies. Glimmerpost allows Turbo Eldrazi to gain obscene amounts of life, which prolongs the game, enabling you to reach the end-game. With the possible exception of Burn (if it wasn't obvious before, Turbo Eldrazi HATES Price of Progress), there is very little an opposing Aggro player can do to you once you've gained 10, 12, or even more life with Glimmerpost.
Vesuva completes the "Post" package, which is peculiar because it isn't a Locus in the purest sense. Often, this is played as a copy of another Locus (typically Glimmerpost against Aggro, Cloudpost otherwise). There are plenty of other applications though:
Vesuva is the little "Locus" that could. It can be just as important, if not more, than the other Locus Lands.
I'll add work the information about the individual posts into the deck mixing your information and my information later this week.
About the title... I'm not a fan of calling the deck Turbo Eldrazi. Never liked that name. But I understand that the deck is undergoing changes that affect it on the name basis (I called the latest round of decks 13-Post and am currently testing 16-Post in UG as well as MUD splash gw). I might do 1x-Post, Teen-Post, or Locus Lands/Locus Loop as R&D continues, or I may even relent on Turbo Eldrazi despite the fact I don't like that name. Teen Post is my personal favorite at the moment. For now, I'm going to give it some more time before I change this thread's name.
Also, we need to think through ways to work through Sneaky Show. It's apparently what stopped Jeremiah Rudolf from Top 8'ing in addition to being Austin's loss in the Top 8. They're working it hard on the Source, but I want to know what you guys have to say about them as well.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Turn 1: Chrome Mox/Lotus Petal, Ancient Tomb -> Show and Tell -> Omniscience -> Enter the Infinite -> cast all the deck's copies of Emrakul
This is a god-hand requiring 5-6 cards, but still. Post has nothing like this turn 1.
The problem lies in Show and Tell -> Omniscience. Once that happens what do we do? They can do this anytime Turn 1 to 3, before we have a chance to ramp up properly.
Being mono blue their counter magic will generally be a lot stronger than ours.
Yes we can try and win the counter war on the Show and Tell, but if we lose that what do we have as options?
I'm asking whether Venser, Shaper Savant targeting Omniscience will be good enough. What can they do in response? Does Trinisphere need to be considered at that point as another option? Does Cyclonic Rift go in over Repeal main board with the hope to bounce Omniscience?
Apart from Venser, Oblivion Stone also does wonders against them. It requires some thinking ahead though to make sure you have enough mana to activate when they show and tell it into play.
For me, I really don't understand why people insist on Omni-tell when Sneak Show is a far more consistent variant. Show and Tell runs more counters, and has the back-up plan of using Sneak Attack when Show and Tell is countered, discarded, or simply just too risky to use.
Omnitell just plain loses if they can't Show and Tell their key cards into play. It's not realistic to hard-cast Omniscience to be quite honest.
One question I have about 12 Post itself. Expedition Map is used early game on most lists. Until we get a titan and to supplement Crop Rotation. Is there a reason we don't use Exploration or Explore over Expedition Map?
I feel especially strongly about Exploration over Expedition Map. Why isn't turn 1 Misty/Trop -> Exploration -> Cloudpost one of our best plays? It seems to set up turn 2 and 3 crazily good.
Sorry if I'm asking silly/redundant questions. Like I said, kinda new at this.
It's different for different builds (Obviously)
Exploration and Expedition map have different functions. Map is undervalued as a shuffle effect for brainstorms. With only 4 fetches in most decks, we need the shuffle.
Exploration is a pure ramp card. Map is a tutor for ramp, OR find a utility land or gain some life off glimmerposts.
What if you draw the exploration but no colored mana in your opening 7? Do you keep it? There's a lot of factors between the two.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
OmniTell runs 3 Show and Tell + 4 Burning Wish. That's almost as many cheats as Sneak Show's 4 SnT + 4 Sneak Attack. OmniTell does plain lose if it can't SnT anything, but it's got 7 of those to play with.
Sneak Show does tend to run more protection, but OmniTell tends to run more cantrips and search (excluding Personal Tutor and Burning Wish). Sneak Show also has a problem with killing immediately with Sneak Attack--Griselbrand raises the OHKO odds enormously, but Sneaking a lone Emrakul still doesn't necessarily seal games. (Then again, SnT + Omniscience still needs a third card to have a possibility of killing, but Omni turns more topdecks into potential bombs than Sneak Attack does.)
OmniTell and Sneak Show also flop to different hate. Ensnaring Bridge is significantly better against Sneak Show, while Oblivion Ring is somewhat better against OmniTell.
Basically, Omni-Show runs more redundancy (more tutors; burning wish) to protect its combo, while Sneak Attack runs more protection and an alternate win-combo (counters + sneak attack).
Both are still open to disruption for sure. So it is key to the matchup. Unfortunately, Turbo Eldrazi is not favored in the Show and Tell matchups, even when running hate and Venser. It's by no means unwinnable, but it's an uphill battle for sure.
*****
About Show and Tell (both Omni and Sneak):
The big problem with both of them is that they both are basically running the strategy of 12-Post (drop in big beaters that gain big advantage) without Locus lands, which often gives them a faster clock, but to make that faster clock, they have to trade out inevitability.
Things that one can do to Show and Tell decks:
Pithing Needle: call Griselbrand or Sneak Attack. You could even risk putting it in off their Show and Tell because I think you have the opportunity to name the card they put in before they can use that card's effect (especially risky because if they put in Emrakul, you're toast). It's not the be all, end all, but it will significantly slow them down.
Oblivion Stone: Show and Tell needs non-land permanents to win. This kills those permanents. Watch out for Stifle, but if you have 5, just bring it in with their Show and Tell.
Surgical Extraction: if you can get around Show and Tell #1 (i.e. Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, or Venser, Shaper Savant bounces the card they put in), then try to get rid of all the Show and Tells. The cheapest thing that they try to put in with Show and Tell is Griselbrand, and they cannot get that mana naturally unlike us.
I'm sure there're other things we can do to help even up the match, but those are the things that come to mind at this moment.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
TES plays out pretty much like ANT if they have Tendrils main-deck during Game 1. However, new lists of TES are starting to eschew Tendrils for Empty the Warrens, so it makes the matchup a little bit more manageable pre-board, but it is still pretty unfavorable.
Admittedly, I have never tested the Lands matchup, but I would think that Turbo Eldrazi is slightly favored provided Lands has not had a lock set-up. Turbo Eldrazi's inevitability might be too much for Lands to handle, though admittedly, Crucible of Worlds + Wasteland would give you fits.
While I don't know too much about lands because I haven't played against it yet, I have played against cards the deck consistently plays. I conjecture it shouldn't be that hard because their lines of defense (Maze of Ith and Glacial Chasm) do not stop attack triggers, which means that Primeval Titan and Annihilator triggers still happen. Rishadan Port will be an extremely annoying card, but you should be able to work out playing around it without Pithing Needleing it, but it won't hurt if you can bring the game under your control by shutting it down as well. If you play Pithing Needle or Surgical Extraction, be sure to take care of Wasteland because Lands can recycle Wasteland... a lot.
And while I haven't played against TES, you can look at my analysis of ANT to see what there would apply to TES. Mindbreak Trap, Flusterstorm, and Chalice of the Void tend to be our best Storm breakers, so keep that in mind.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
What's cool about this event though is that my 1st Round was a mirror match... who knew?
I won that round on the back of Candelabra of Tawnos. That card is just insane.
I daresay that Candelabra of Tawnos is a non-negotiable component of Turbo Eldrazi. Anyone who can't get their hands on at least 1 of those should look elsewhere for their Legacy deck.
From the sounds of it though, going X-2 (I assume from the information you give) is actually pretty good. Do you have any more details? Maybe even your list?
I wouldn't go that far, especially because there are people where that's just not an option. Candelabra accelerates the deck by a tier (it let me drop Primeval Titan, Kozilek, drop and crack an Expedition Map, and then Top all in one move yesterday), but the deck can and does function on its own without Candelabra.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
Creature(7)
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
2 Oblivion Stone
Instant (11)
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Repeal
Sorcery(3)
3 Show and Tell
3 Flusterstorm
3 Spell Pierce
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Show and Tell
1 Oblivion Stone
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Yes, that's a 61-card main deck.
Matchups were the following:
Round 1: Mirror (2-1)
Round 2: UW Blade Control (2-0)
Round 3: BW Stoneblade (1-1)
Round 4: Junk Maverick (2-1)
Round 5: Goblins (0-2)
Round 6: Jund (1-2)
Round 7: Junk Maverick (2-0)
Ended up at 20th place. Funny how I never fought a single combo matchup.
By far, the MVP's of my sideboard were Spell Pierce and Oblivion Stone for this event.
And a good friend of mine runs High Tide. I'll keep you all updated with how the play testing goes.
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Artifacts: 12
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Instants: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
4 Repeal
Sorceries: 4
4 Show and Tell
4 Flusterstorm
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Elephant Grass
2 Cursed Totem
1 Pithing Needle
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Will be added to the Opening Post.
EDIT: I thought that I was having deja vu. Turns out that it is a card-for-card copy of Tony Murata's deck list that won SCG San Diego. Hooray for meticulous record keeping of showings.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~