There are two listings for Rifter on Deckcheck.net:
The below links are the former links to the decklists from DeckCheck.net. Since the site has been closed, these links are no longer valid; however, I will keep the links here in the off-chance that this individual decides to reopen the site.
In a time where goblins was the deck to beat, many decks evolved to answer it. Among them, Rifter was my personal favorite. Utilizing Lightning Rift alongside the Tempest enchantment Humility, the deck was able to answer aggro decks of all sorts. Onslaught block gave many of the necessary pieces to make this deck valid, mostly in the form of those cards that would give you a trigger when you cycle them.
I. Why Play Rifter?
II. Card Choices
III. Debatable Card Choices
IV. Toolbox Cards
V. Sideboard Suggestions
VI. Sample Decklists
VII. Sample Matchup Analysis
Section I - Why play Rifter?
Rifter was built to demolish aggro. If your metagame is infested with Zoo, Goblins, or just tribal decks in general, Rifter might be a fitting deck. Because of its nature as a control deck made to subdue aggro, this deck can struggle with combo, but this can easily be answered with some main deck and sideboard choices.
The deck can also be fairly cheap to build. Many pieces are under or right around $5; the entire deck can be build fairly easily for under $200 (naturally, it will cost more if you opt for a full set of duals, Moat, etc.)
Edit: Prices have been changing, trending upwards. Enlightened Tutor, Humility, and various potential Tutorable cards have been increasing in price. However, the core of the deck (all Onslaught block pieces) are still quite budget, Swords to Plowshares is a legacy staple, etc.
Section II - Card Choices
Humility – Nearly single-handedly answers nearly all aggro and tribal decks in the format. Goblins, Zoo, Merfolk all rely on hyper-aggressive creatures. Humility brings them all down to size.
Lightning Rift – Namesake of the deck, alongside the cyclers, this card can be incredibly potent. For an additional 1 mana, every cycle both cantrips and shocks.
Enlightened Tutor – Strongly recommended, although not necessarily necessary (sorry if that sounds redundant). Running 3 of these allows you to run fewer of your other lock pieces (Humility, Lightning Rift) and still add consistency, and also allows you to run a toolbox.
Slice and Dice – Mostly used for its cycling effect, this card can really mess with some strategies. Wiping away Silvergill Adepts, goblin tokens and elves, alongside Rift, this card can destroy many decks.
Eternal Dragon – Being able to make a land drop every turn is decent. A recurring way to shoot your opponent or their creatures is pretty damn sweet.
Renewed Faith – Six life for three mana isn’t terrible. Gaining two for two, with a cantrip is solid. This can throw storm players off, helps you dig, and offers another way to shock with Rift.
Swords to Plowshares – The best targeted removal in the game. A natural inclusion for a control deck.
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The Cycle Lands – Cycles for 1, or can be used as a legitimate mana source when necessary.
Section III - Debatable Card Choices
Blood Moon – Strongly recommended. Significantly cripples many Thresh builds, Landstill, Pox, Land.dec, etc. It’s an incredibly strong deck in the metagame.
Orim’s Chant – A simple solution that can be included main deck to help with combo. A well timed chant can also interrupt many decks’ tempo (for example, in response to a Dark Ritual or a Seething Song). Against aggro decks, for an additional W, it can basically act as a Time Walk
Abeyance - See Orim's Chant. I strongly suggest running one or the other main deck, as it makes so many thing so easy. The perk here is that you get a cantrip; the downside is that it's more narrow in it's application. They both do, however, act as a means of guaranteeing your big threats land.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant – One crazy mother. Seriously, this girl can be incredibly powerful. With Humility, her tokens can take on nearly all challengers. Her Angelic Blessing ability lets you fly over your opponents in 95+% of situations, and if you opt to play Moat, it’s a solid way to sneak around that.
Ajani Vengeant - Possible alternative to Elspeth. Can create some tempo, and depending on your build, can make for a rough time for your opponent. The ability to keep legitimate threats tapped down, keeping your opponents off of vital colours, and gaining life in a pinch can all make it worthwhile.
Moat – Crazy expensive, but alongside Humility, creates a nearly impenetrable wall against aggro.
Sensei’s Divining Top – I personally don’t find it necessary, but the card selection can help find the answers you need. I feel that with the cycling that you’ll be doing, and the lack of shuffle effects, as well as a lack of a means to abuse it, there could be better use of slots.
Edit: Just finished going through DeckDB.com and the Rifter thread at MTGTheSource.com to compile a list of all cards ran since 2005 from decklists found on these sites. Full list below:
Abeyance
Ajani Vengeant Akroma's vengeance - Boardwipes like a champ, leaves behind lands and Planeswalkers. Cycles, so it's never a dead card.
Aura of Silence
Blood Moon
Burning Wish - Alternative to ETutor. IMO it's less versatile and a bit more limited in its effects.
Chalice of the Void Clear - A Demistify that Cycles.
Damping Matrix
Decree of Justice Disenchant - What can I even say about this? Really.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Enlightened Tutor
Eternal Dragon Exalted Angel - The only build I've seen this main decked in was using only one Humility. I woudn't recommend in the main, mostly because Humility is just that good. Firespout - Pyroclasm +1. Gets better now that zoo has access to Kird Ape and Nacatl (and to a lesser extent, Loam Lion). Also squashes merfolk, goblins, elves, etc. Gilded Light - Protection from Discard, storm cards like Tendrils of Agony and Brain Freeze, Intuition, burn spells, etc. Cycles in a pinch.
Goblin Assault
Humility Lightning Helix - Removal that gains life.
Lightning Rift Magma Jet - Removal that Filters. I've seen it in a build using Top, and used to run it myself before I was using Enlightened Tutor.
Moat
Oblivion Ring
Orim's chant Orim's Thunder - A bit more expensive than Disenchant, but also 'doubles' as removal.
Pithing Needle
Pulse of the Fields - Life gain. Gotta love it. Pyroclasm - See Firespout. Less damaging, but a bit cheaper. Also hits *all* creatures. Radiant's Judgment - Blows up larger creatures (Tarmogoyf, KotR, etc). Also cycles.
Relic of Progenitus
Renewed Faith
Rune of Protection: Green
Rune of Protection: Red
Runed Halo Scrap - See Clear. A Shatter that cycles.
Seal of Cleansing
Sensei's Divining Top
Slice and Dice Spark Spray - A decent option in a goblins-infested metagame; another option to kill off a turn 1 Lackey. Starstorm - A variable pyroclasm. Costs more, and is instant speed. Cycles as needed.
Story Circle
Swords to Plowshares
Tormod's Crypt Wing Shards - Alternative answer to creatures with protection/shroud. Storm can make Wrath of God - Most efficient board wipe. 4 mana, full-on removal.
Lands:
Ancient Den Arid Mesa - Lets you grab the colour you need. Leaves you slightly susceptable to Stifle, but also offers a bit more versatility. Battlefield Forge - Functions as another Dual Land. Flagstones of Trokair - Helps dodge land destruction. Suggested back when WW with 'Geddon was a threat.
Forgotten Cave Kher Keep - Makes dudes that kill under humility. Kjeldoran Outpost - See Kher Keep. Has the disadvantage of costing you a land (and therefore, you can be 2-for-1ed), but taps for white and the critters are less dead without humility. Kor Haven - Damage prevention. However, with the normal removal spells at our disposal, this seems quite unnecessary.
Plateau Sacred Foundry - See Battlefield Forge. Better as it can be fetched with EDragon
Secluded Steppe
Section IV - Toolbox Cards
Some cards are nice to have, but generally not in multiples. If you opt to run Enlightened Tutor, I’d recommend looking in to these cards.
Engineered Explosives – A simple answer to tokens and lower cost aggro decks, this cards also has many crazy applications:
A recent game I played against TES, my opponent was comboing off, had 7 storm count, an untapped swamp, LED in play, two cards in hand. All I had was EE in play and two untapped lands. He taps his swamp to play Dark Ritual (which would put him up to three black mana, one card in hand and 8 storm). I respond by breaking EE, eating his LED. He revealed his last card in his hand: an Infernal Tutor.
Aura of Silence – Helps deal with Enchantress, Affinity, and can randomly help with storm. The ability to Disenchant at will randomly be useful as well.
Rule of Law – Again, a nice way to help with storm. I’ve found it to be lackluster in the main deck, although depending on your meta, it could prove useful.
Crucible of Worlds – Can be used to counteract land destruction, to play your cycling lands after cycling, or you can opt to change the manabase to better suit crucible, if you so desire.
Oblivion Ring – A tutorable way to remove threats… I think that pretty much explains it.
Tormod’s Crypt, Pithing Needle, Damping Matrix – Metagame choices. I personally run none of these, but some of the decks on deckcheck.net use them. Look at your metagame before throwing these in; make sure to have as few dead cards as possible for your meta as a whole.
Artifacts:
The artifact lands - Lands that you can tutor for in a pinch. It never hurts to have options. Chalice of the Void - Most likely to play at zero to help deal with Storm. 1 interferes with Chant and ETutor, 2 interferes with Abeyance and Rift... just be careful if you opt to use it. Engineered Explosives - I like this is noteworthy, because of its many applications. It helps deal with opposing Chalices, tokens, a plethora of miscellaneous others, just for zero. 1 eats AEther Vial, Mana Elves... well, the list goes on. See also: Ratchet Bomb and Powder Keg Tormod's Crypt - Graveyard hate. Depending on your metagame, it might be worth running main deck. See also: Relic of Progenitus Brittle Effigy - Possible application? I dunno... Emrakul? It's a stretch. I'm really pushing it. Cursed Scroll - Again, a bit of a stretch, but seems humorous with Humility. Again, not at the top of my suggestions, but I thought I'd include it. Dispeller's Capsule - Artifact/Enchantment hate. Pithing Needle - Hello Survival (this statement to be invalidated in six days)
The spellbombs - What, there's ten of them now? 7 can theoretically be used in a straight RW build, and 4 of those can be used to their fullest. However, most of them are junk. Nihil and Origin are the most noteworthy in my eyes, but use your judgment. Relic of Progenitus - Grave hate. See Tormod's Crypt Sensei's Divining Top - Card selection. Can be abused with Enlightened Tutor, Eternal Dragon and fetchlands (if you opt to run them). Defense Grid - Taxes countermagic, and toys around with Solidarity. Ethersworn Canonist - Storm Hate. These matchups, I'm taking out Humility anyway... it works beautifully. Isochron Scepter - I just had to put this one down. Chant Stick is a *****, but if you want to really use it, I'd just suggest looking at the Quinn thread. Null Rod - Affinity? Suck on that! Powder Keg - See Engineered Explosives Ratchet Bomb - See Engineered Explosives Sphere of Resistance - Combo hate. Tsabo's Web - Cantrips and is definitely an interesting answer to Land.dec, etc. Caltrops - It's cute. It works with humility, but it's cute, and that's about it. Crucible of Worlds - Allows for some fun options in your manabase, abusing Fetchlands, Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, grabbing back cycled lands... Trinisphere - Slows ☺☺☺☺ down, works humorously with Wasteland, but ultimately, if you're going down that road, a Staxx variant might suit you better. Thunderstaff - See Caltrops. It's cute, it 'combos' with Humility, but alone, it doesn't do that much, and seems questionable Urza's Armor - See Thunderstaff, except it costs 6.
White Enchantment: Aegis of Honor - Burn. Laugh in the face of burn. Genju of the Fields - It stacks again! Call it a tutorable win condition, life gain... whatever you'd like to call it.
The Circles - Take your pick. It answers Progenitus, so the hydra can suck it! (Really, I'm not bitter at all)
The Runes - See The Circles. Only uses white mana, but also cycles in a pinch. Runed Halo - Potential hate against storm, Ooze, Progenitus, Grindstone, Intuition... it's actually incredibly versatile. Greater Auramancy - Generally not too necessary, just gives your ☺☺☺☺ shroud. Sacred Ground - Pox, Staxx, wasteland, (annihilator, if you can get it out early enough and stall long enough)... strongly suggested, at least as a 1-of in the board. Seal of Cleansing - Tutorable Disenchant. Serenity - Takes a turn, but eats Affinity, Enchantress... Spiritual Focus - Rather invalidates discard strategies. The problem is that after this lands, they're significantly less inclined to try to rape your hand. Warmth - Another humorous answer to burn. I don't hate the idea of it, and once it lands, it does significantly (theoretically) slow them down. Actually, as I'm writing this, I'm trying to find the downside... Wheel of Sun and Moon - Works as grave hate, stops Modular triggers, Persist... Aura Fracture - Works best with Crucible, but is definitely is a fun answer to Enchantress. Aura of Silence - Taxes artifacts/enchantments, plus turns itself into a Disenchant. It seems like a logical inclusion main deck. Divine Presence - Unnecessary, at best. Humility deals better with creatures, and how often do you get hit with fireball in legacy? Ghostly Prison - Moat seems infinitely better. Also, it doesn't stop creatures from attacking your planeswalkers, so beware. Works fine against tribal decks, token swarms, etc, but does nothing against Progenitus, Emrakul, Terravore, Knight of the Reliquary, etc. Karmic Justice - They kill your stuff, this retaliates. Oblivion Ring - Gets rid of: Emrakul, Jace (and any other planeswalker)... well, use your brain. It answers all sorts of ☺☺☺☺. I'd suggest running 1x in the main. Orim's Prayer - See thunderstaff, urza's armor. Rule of Law - See Ethersworn Canonist. Costs one more, and doesn't attack, but redundancy never hurts in this situation. Story Circle - See the Circles. Costs one more and only uses white mana, but you get to choose the colour. Seems more logical than any circle MD, but depending on the metagame, an appropriate Rune seems better. Moat - Turns into a hard lock with Humility, stops goblins, elves, most merfolk, Progenitus, most thresh/counterbalance/new horizons/rock creatures... it's a beast. Reverance - A crappy Moat. Limits their attack, but does nothing against anything... well, decent sized. Does lock with Humility, but isn't nearly as effective as Moat. Ivory Mask - Gives you shroud... That pretty much covers it. Leyline of Sanctity - See Ivory Mask. Has the added benefit of coming free if it's in your opener.
Red Enchantments - I wish I could legitimately justify even half of these Brutal Suppression - Very narrow, but I felt the need to bring this one up, if only for the lulz. Pyrostatic Pillar/Spellshock - Answers storm. It's funny. Scald - ... Solidarity? I dunno, I'm forcing this. Blood Moon - This is probably the most strongly recommended of the red enchantments. It does so much... I will virtually always advocate running at least one in the main and one in the side. Everlasting Torment - Stops life gain... I dunno, I'm forcing it like none other. Magnetic Mountain - Theoretically slows down merfolk, faeries, etc, but they do have answers. I'm not going to advocate this, just post it as a possible 'answer', dependent on your metagame
Sacred Ground – If Geddon Staxx, MBC, or New Horizons are prevalent, this might be a good consideration. Depending on how prevalent, it might be worth putting Main Deck, although it might be a bit of a stretch.
Aura Fracture – A little-known Prophesy card that turns each of your lands into a Demystify. A very solid answer to enchantress, and is pretty much sure to get you a “what the ☺☺☺☺ is this ☺☺☺☺?!” response.
Edit: Just finished going through DeckDB.com and the Rifter thread at MTGTheSource.com to compile a list of all sideboard cards ran since 2005 from decklists found on these sites. Full list below:
Abeyance
Akroma's Vengeance
Aura of Silence
Blood Moon Boil - Goodbye Islands. Boseiju, Who Shelters All - Makes ☺☺☺☺ uncounterable. However, because it only affects Instants and Sorceries, it seems much less
Chalice of the Void
Circle of Protection: Green
Circle of Protection: Red
Damping Matrix Dead // Gone - 1 cc Shock or a 3cc Unsummon.
Disenchant Drought - I just read this. It looks sadistic. Unfortunately, it costs 4 and has an upkeep cost.
Enlightened Tutor
Ethersworn Canonist
Exalted Angel
Gilded Light Glowrider - Functions as a Thorm of Amythyst that beats face. Doesn't work with humility, but if run, you'll probably be siding out Humility for it anyway.
Humility
Isochron Scepter
Ivory Mask Jester's Cap - Suggested against Quinn and storm. I feel that there are better/easier/less mana intensive answers.
Karmic Justice
Lightning Helix
Moat Mogg Salvage - Potentially free Shatter. Mountain Goat - WTF? Seriously, it was in one of the lists, and I still can't figure out why...
Null Rod
Orim's Chant
Orim's Thunder
Pithing Needle
Pulse of the Fields
Pyroblast
Pyroclasm
Pyrostatic Pillar
Red Elemental Blast Reiterate - A reusable Fork.
Relic of Progenitus Replenish - Gives you resiliency to enchantment wipe, although it's nowhere near as good in Rifter as it is in Enchantress.
Reverence Ruination - Catastrophic against so many decks. See Blood Moon
Rule of Law
Rune of Protection: Green
Runed Halo
Sacred Ground
Scald
Seal of Cleansing Second Sunrise - Suggested against 'Geddon effects and the like.
Serenity Silence - See Orim's Chant
Sphere of Law
Thorn of Amethyst
Tormod's Crypt
Trinisphere Urza's Rage - I can only imagine this was a finisher, but this is beyond dated.
Wing Shards
I’ll throw some sample decklists out there, some brief strategies, interesting bits and card choices, etc.
Here's a list from November 2008, piloted by Chrisostomos Tsiaglis to 3rd of 22 players (thanks Bohab for the link!). Some interesting things to note:
Kjeldoran Outpost, - Seems kinda cute with Humility. I actually like the idea of a land that pumps out critters, but I'm turned off by the ability to get two-for-oned for that chance, especially in a format littered with Wasteland. Goblin Assault - Another cute way to abuse Humility. I feel like Elspeth, Knight-Errant is a bit stronger, but that's based on my speculation; no actual testing on my part. I do, however, like that it can be tutored for.
Other notable tutor targets MD: Damping Matrix, Rule of Law and Story Circle.
Another thing to note is that this build is over two years old. New cards have been released and metagames change. Adapt accordingly.
My matchups were as follows:
Affinity (1-0) – Humility is less of a kick in the crotch to them, as Modular Creatures will still come into play with a counter on them, putting them out of range of your Slice and Dice. Ajani + Swords + Rift + Aura all worked together to shut them down. We ended up going to time, although he was at two and I had another cycler in hand, I was just two mana shy before our last turn.
Pox (2-0) – Blood Moon proves its worth. Once that mother lands, a lot of decks will struggle. Crucible + Wasteland helps stall, and Swords should definitely be used to eliminate Bloodghasts. Sideboarding in Graveyard Hate plus additional Blood Moons can make this match a lot easier. Well timed chants in response to Dark Rituals can be hilarious.
TES (2-0) – This matchup should be rough. Fortunately for me, he mulliganed to oblivion both games (six mulligans between two games), but Orim’s Chant main and Abeyance in the board really proved their worth.
Eva Green minus Goyf (0-2) – I was guaranteed top 4, and I got lazy. Chant can be useful when well timed (again, in response to Dark Ritual) but heavy discard can prove annoying (to say the least), and ultimately, I kinda stopped caring
Cut to Top 4 (Myself, Eva Green, Merfolk and TES). I was matched up against TES again.
TES (2-1) – Same general strategy, although there was much less mulliganing. Ethersworn Canonist, Orim’s Chant, Abeyance, and Engineered Explosives all help, and Ajani to keep the proper (necessary) mana sources tapped, Wasteland, etc. can all hurt them significantly. Renewed Faith as a surprise “hey, you need 1 more storm” that can be cast through their Chants can all be crazy against them.
Merfolk (1-0) – Landed Humility, basically won from there. Alongside Blood Moon (to shut down their Wastelands and Mutavaults), the game was made pretty easy. He ended up conceding game two to me, chiefly because he didn't have an appropriate sideboard and so that he could take off.
I’ll try to keep this updated with new results, decklists, cardchoices, etc, but despite my return, there’s always a chance I’ll disappear for a while. If I’ve appeared to disappear for a while, message me on AIM; if I’m on, I’ll answer.
This was because I found the life gain not as effective in games where I had board wiped them with humility and slice and dice, whereas lightning rift is the decks centre piece and having 2 out at once can be even more devestating.
I began finding vengeant slow and not as good as I originally thought so replaced one vengeant with one Elspeth, I currently am seriously thinking of replacing the other with Elspeth, purely for the reasons you said in the suggested cards section, Elspeth's tokens are unstoppable with humility in play. I see that Ajani can keep threats tapped down but find tokens SO much more effective
I've put a little thought into Astral Slide, and the reality is, if you want to use slide, let the deck revolve around it. Slide + Humility is so lackluster. Also, with 3 humility and 3 tutor, and with all the filtering we're doing, it's incredibly likely that you'll find one of the two.
As for the -1 Faith, +1 Rift, it's kinda the same thing as above. With 3 Rifts and 3 Tutors, you've basically got it. While multiples can be nice, a lot of the time, it's not necessary; once you've got a lock, many decks can't recover. As for Renewed Faith, the life gain can be invaluable in some matchups. There's nothing like sitting at 21 and watching your opponent squirm as they realize they've only got the storm to tendrils for 20.
Ajani vs. Elspeth is a metagame and/or personal choice. In an aggro heavy meta, I'd totally push for Elspeth, but combo or heavy control filled meta, Ajani is probably the better call. Ultimately it comes down to your play style.
Would you recommend this deck for a relatively underdeveloped meta as well as a developed one? My local playgroup isn't very competitive but I like going to bigger tourneys when given the chance so I'm looking for a deck that can do well in both.
Would you recommend this deck for a relatively underdeveloped meta as well as a developed one? My local playgroup isn't very competitive but I like going to bigger tourneys when given the chance so I'm looking for a deck that can do well in both.
Unlike Dragon Stompy, this deck should be able to perform *at least* fairly well in both underdeveloped and developed metagames. Now, if this "underdeveloped" metagame is predominately dredge and combo, it's not going to be your best call, but if it's mostly aggro and aggro/control, you shouldn't have too much of an issue.
Unlike Dragon Stompy, this deck should be able to perform *at least* fairly well in both underdeveloped and developed metagames. Now, if this "underdeveloped" metagame is predominately dredge and combo, it's not going to be your best call, but if it's mostly aggro and aggro/control, you shouldn't have too much of an issue.
Thanks for the quick feedback, yea the underdeveloped portion is mostly tribal, the most dangerous deck being a competitive level merfolk deck but other then that all are fairly rogue-ish.
This reminds me of the slide/rift deck from the onslaught t2 season
EDIT: my 888 Post!!
Just for the record, I played absolutely no part in this deck's design. I do, however, pilot it, and find it to be hilarious and a strong deck choice for many metagames.
This is a little similar to RiftSlide, although since Affinity is no longer the deck to beat, Astral Slide is no longer as strong of a choice as it once was. During Onslaught/Mirroden, Slide was used alongside Viridian Shaman and Eternal Witness to eat affinity alive. For legacy Astral Slide, visit the legacy archives here.
As mentioned above, Humility is significantly stronger than Astral Slide in most situations. Running Humility also does mean that your creature base has to be limited, but you can also take advantage of that as well (see Slice and DiceDecree of Justice and Elspeth, Knight-Errant). Slide allows you to use creatures with CIP triggers. Ultimately, it comes down to your play style and what your metagame looks like.
while green isn't as strong as it is with a slide strategy, I'd wonder that life from the loam and those cycling lands might not be good enough reason to run it? It's a hella strong CA engine.
On EE blowing up LED and other 0 mana accelerants. I find it to be the most useful when they have only one IMS after ad nauseam and that IMS is a chrome mox because you can put the imprint trigger on the stack and sack EE in response. The situation where you blew LED up with EE was the pilots' fault because if he simply didn't play it until after the dark ritual you lose. Still nice when your opponent misplays though.
Nice primer though. I don't agree with rune of protection over circle of protection despite the runes cycling the downside is when you actually cast them to stall aggro you need white mana to activate them and while we are 2-3 colors total depending on list I prefer the 1 activation cost of circle of protection.
I think you should also mention crucible of worlds as an option for a tutor target because it thins the deck out so well when combined with fetches and works very well against staxxx
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
On EE blowing up LED and other 0 mana accelerants. I find it to be the most useful when they have only one IMS after ad nauseam and that IMS is a chrome mox because you can put the imprint trigger on the stack and sack EE in response. The situation where you blew LED up with EE was the pilots' fault because if he simply didn't play it until after the dark ritual you lose. Still nice when your opponent misplays though.
Nice primer though. I don't agree with rune of protection over circle of protection despite the runes cycling the downside is when you actually cast them to stall aggro you need white mana to activate them and while we are 2-3 colors total depending on list I prefer the 1 activation cost of circle of protection.
I think you should also mention crucible of worlds as an option for a tutor target because it thins the deck out so well when combined with fetches and works very well against staxxx
My opponent actually had not misplayed. He had to drop the LED a turn earlier due to eight cards in hand and missing a win condition in there. I'm actually not sure if holding off on the EE was the right move, but I tend to procrastinate, even in situations like this (for example, classes have been going for a week and I just picked up my books this morning; no lie).
The list running Rune is quite dated. The benefit to running rune is that it's not a dead draw in multiples, and the majority of your lands will likely produce white (mostly plains, plus Eternal Dragon).
As for Crucible... it *is* listed, although not under toolbox, and is in the last decklist provided. It seems like a solid inclusion; it works well both with the cycle lands and fetches (if you do run them, which is definitely worth considering alongside Crucible).
Played in a local tournament today. Ended up getting the first round bye, but otherwise, had a pretty solid day.
Round 2, Eva Green.
Ajani really proved himself here. Ajani hit his ultimate, Blood Moon did its part, and even though all three of my Humility's and all three Rifts got nerfed (his first couple plays involved three Hymn to Tourachs), Ajani eating his lands, coupled with Blood Moon and Swords to Plowshares were able to eat his threats.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 3, Pyromancer's Ascension
Game one was tough; I've got so many dead cards against combo (Humility, Swords to Plowshares, Slice and Dice). Despite the Orim's Chants and EE/Aura of Silence, he was able to push through and get a lethal Grapeshot on me.
Sideboarding was intense. I literally brought in 12 cards against him:
(-3 Humility, -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Blood Moon, -2 Slice and Dice, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Lightning Rift, +3 Abeyance, +3 Abolish, +1 Tormod's Crypt, +1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Enlightened Tutor, +1 Aura Fracture, +1 Rule of Law, +1 Ethersworn Canonist)
Games two and three, basically, I just brought too much stuff in for him to deal with. Relic of Progenitus as a slow way to remove his grave, coupled with Canonist + Aura Fracture basically means that they can't combo out. Well-times Abeyance/Orim's Chant can slow them down significantly.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 4, New Horizons
I've seen this matchup played out before, so I was wary right off the start.
Game one, he had a ☺☺☺☺ hand. Basically, no blue, no way to slow me down, and by turn 4, I had Blood Moon and two Lightning Rifts down. He crumbled pretty hard.
Sideboard, +2 Blood Moon, -1 EE, -1 Aura of Silence
Games two and three, he saw what he needed, and his deck did it right. Basically, Humility got countered, Ajani activations got Stifled, and it was just rough. Terravore got huge off my cycle lands, and it just got overwhelming too quickly.
2-1 (5-3)
Overall, it wasn't a bad day. I wish we had a chance to play for top 4 (Top 4 would have been me, New Horizons, Goblins and TES), but people had to head out, so we effectively split.
A couple thoughts from today:
1. Ajani: I love him. I'm legitimately at a tossup right now as to whether I'd rather have him or Elspeth.
2. Blood Moon: still as strong as I mentioned earlier. A resolved Blood Moon eats so many decks in the format.
i am having a hard time beating burn with this deck and the 4 renewed faith's are good, just not quite enough. Do you dedicate your last three sideboard spots to some burn hate or what?
i am having a hard time beating burn with this deck and the 4 renewed faith's are good, just not quite enough. Do you dedicate your last three sideboard spots to some burn hate or what?
A couple thoughts here:
Aegis of Honor - Effectively redirects any burn spell. Can be grabbed by E-tutor, which is really wonderful. Be sure to keep enough mana open to cover yourself.
Rune of Protection: Red - From the original build, this was really made to answer red. Cycles, so should never be a dead draw. The white activation can randomly screw you, but there should be enough white sources to make that almost negligible.
Story Circle - Answers more than burn. Downside is that it costs 3, and the W activation cost, like with rune, can sometimes be detrimental.
Aegis of Honor - Effectively redirects any burn spell. Can be grabbed by E-tutor, which is really wonderful. Be sure to keep enough mana open to cover yourself.
Rune of Protection: Red - From the original build, this was really made to answer red. Cycles, so should never be a dead draw. The white activation can randomly screw you, but there should be enough white sources to make that almost negligible.
Story Circle - Answers more than burn. Downside is that it costs 3, and the W activation cost, like with rune, can sometimes be detrimental.
I'm building this deck for my aggro/creature heavy meta, mostly because i have most of the parts from a casual Astral Slide deck I had built. And thats what I like about it, is that like enchantress, its almost a toolbox that can answer most decks. I'm just worried about relying on Lightning Rift, Ajani, or Eternal Dragon as wincons
looks like a 2004 Standard deck, which BTW Julian Nuitjen won the MTG World Championships with, BUT that being said, I also liked André Coimbra's Naya deck, doesn't mean I'm gonna make a few adjustments and run it in Legacy...
Get your facts right. Julian Nuitjen did indeed win the 2004 World Championship with a Cycling-based control deck; however, it was G/W Slide. Saying that Slide and Rifter are the same decks because of a few similarities is like saying that UB Reanimator and New Horizons are the same because they all run Force/Daze/Brainstorm/Ponder.
If you do insist on calling these the same deck, calling the modifications "a few changes" is insulting. Here's the total similarities between the two decks:
Eternal Dragon (My current list runs 3, he ran 4) Renewed Faith (Both running 4) Decree of Justice (both running 2) Secluded Steppe (both running 4) Plains (I'm running 8, he ran 6)
Here, there's a total of exactly 19 slots that are identical (including the basics)
As for Naya... There's already a GRW aggro deck. It's called Zoo. Turns out, it performs pretty well.
This deck is not viable in the current meta for MANY reasons, you don't have a sideboard big enough to cover the current tournament meta decks, first of all, your deck has nothing whatsoever vs a Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Jace is good, but it's not unanswerable. Most decks that rely on Jace seem to have very fragile manabases; I like to prey on that.
Evidence? Seriously, heavy countermagic can be rough, and theoretically heavy discard should be bad too, but I haven't experienced as much difficulty as should be expected in that situation.
and it also does terrible vs combos, TES I'm surprised you won, but like you said, one you were lucky and won 2-1, and the other kid had to have a terrible TES to mulligan to like crazy twice, Orim's Chant, Abeyance, etc. only help you so much.
Again, evidence? Granted, game one might be a little rough, depending on draws, but post board, you can bring in everything from Abeyance to Rule of Law, Ethersworn Canonist, Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt (answer to IGG), Blood Moon, etc. The match might look rough on paper, but if you've actually played it (which obviously, you haven't), you'd know that it's not an impossible matchup.
Where's the grave hate? If the opponent puts a Iona, Shield of Emeria how do you deal with it?
Grave hate is typically in the sideboard. I don't like to include a full sideboard; I'll give general ideas, but I like to see people try to make their sideboard work for their metagame. If you're that concerned about Reanimator in your metagame, run more grave hate. If you're really *that* desperate, running a singleton Savannah/Taiga would allow for Wing Snare or Plummet
Again, to everything I said, your answer was "sideboard", well, sideboard is 15 cards, yours will have how many...?
I run 3 Enlightened Tutor main, one in the board, and most of my answers for most threats can be tutored with the aforementioned card. That's the closest to a universal sideboard you'll be able to find.
And your "comparison" to Julian was sad to be the least, you compare a LEGACY DECK with a (at that time) STANDARD T2 DECK, which is obvious that if he had the range of cards you have in Legacy available to him, he would make those obvious or close to, changes to his deck, don't you think it's a "little" similar to have 19 cards the same as a old T2 deck SIMILAR?
Rifter is a metagame deck, the same way that Slide was. The difference is what metagame you're aiming to deal with. Slide was built when Affinity was the deck: Slide reset modular counters, Viridian Shaman ate single creatures, MD Wrath of God and Akroma's Vengeance were basically one-sided board wipes.
Rifter was originally built to fight through a Goblins heavy metagame. Swords to Plowshares answers a turn one Goblin Lackey, Engineered Explosives eats all tokens, Lightning Rift basically kills any goblin, and Humility demolishes anything "tribal" about the deck. The deck has changed since its creation, but still eats aggro alive.
The cards that are similar between the decks are similar for some pretty obvious reasons:
Renewed Faith: both decks were trying to survive in an aggro heavy metagame. It digs, plus helps you hold out until your board wipe hits. Eternal Dragon: A recurring threat, plus a way to trigger your deck's enchantment consistently.
Cycle Lands: Both decks run enchantments that trigger off Cycling. It just makes sense. Decree of Justice: It's an uncounterable win condition. Turns out that's really solid, regardless of what format you're playing.
Plains: You don't really read what I write, do you?
And yes, the current, competitive metagame is HEAVY on the counterspells, HEAVY on the discard, most U or B are. Seriously your deck reminds me a "Rush to Death" with craploads of Orim's Chant, Angel's Grace, Silence, Abeyance, Rule of Law, etc. etc. ok it didn't run Ethersworn Canonist, but as amazing is it may be, the current mana runs so much creature removal spells, Ethersworn cannonist will be out of the board the turn it comes in.
Most decks that run Jace tend to run a fragile mana base? And you like to pray on that? So how exactly are you gonna pray on that with your deck? LOL, you're not using ONE land removal spell, oh wait, Magus of the Moon, but, the last 3 competitive decks i've seen run Jace had mostly basic Islands and Swamps, oh dear..
Maybe it's just because I'm looking at what's considered to be upper tier by both MTGSalvation and MTGTheSource, but it appears that the more competitive decks that use Jace are running 3+ colours, fully justifying that "fragile manabase" statement I made. Blood Moon and Wasteland recursion (via Crucible) is generally good in those situations.
my final opinion, this deck isn't competitive, ain't ever going to be, at most, top casual that can get a couple wins in a Pro tour.
If you'd read the OP (which it's becoming more and more obvious that you haven't), you'll understand that this is a metagame deck. If you're walking into a combo-infested metagame, you're begging to get bent over. If you're unsure of your metagame, this probably isn't the best call, at least until you're comfortable with what's floating around.
If you'd read the OP (which it's becoming more and more obvious that you haven't), you'll understand that this is a metagame deck. If you're walking into a combo-infested metagame, you're begging to get bent over. If you're unsure of your metagame, this probably isn't the best call, at least until you're comfortable with what's floating around.
I agree with this completely. I used to play Rifter many moons ago during the age of Goblins and once the metagame starts changing, you have to change your 75. The deck's advantage is that it preys on the common pitfalls of other decks: overextending threats (both on the board and in the graveyard), multicolor mana bases, reliance on permission to gain board advantage, Storm. Rather than playing a specific strategy, you attempt to negate other strategies with a versatile number of options. It is very obvious how this is done if you look carefully at the deck.
Sideboard has 15 cards, he has to cover Combo (all types of it), Heavy counter, Heavy discard, Affinity (The new, improved Legacy one, not old T2), Grave hate, Artifact hate, POX, 38 lands, etc. etc. etc. etc. WITH 15 CARDS, doesn't matter how well he can draw with Tutor, it's the amount of available slots i'm worried about..
As I've said before, time and time again, Rifter needs to be tailored to the metagame. If I were to take this to a larger event, it would be a different list than if I were playing this in a smaller local event.
More importantly, your constant complaint about how my matchups are, and how I need sideboard hate for everything... have you ever played this deck or seen it played (Hell, or even read through the decklist that I played)? Obviously you haven't, because if you have, you'd know that the hate that I'm running is sufficient for many matchups. For the matchups where I don't have a high to very-high win rate... well, even the tier decks have their weaknesses. If you read any primer in the Proven Competitive section, the matchup analysis for every deck (where it is completed) lists at least one bad matchup. Any deck claiming otherwise is lying; no deck has a favorable matchup against 100% of the field. If there were one, everyone would play it, or play to hate it, which would lead to it not having that dominating power overall.
So you want to talk about the decks I created, again instead of posting something "oh here's 8 diferent cards (that 4x of each are 32) and I build a sideboard with these" I actually spent time BUILDING A SIDEBOARD, with 15 cards, that's them, all there, the RG Aggro Meta is one of perfect example of that, I built that deck from scratch, and it covers everything, that was the point, it's only 4 cards to cover? At least they're there, in a sideboard, built in, even tho it's 4 since Chalice of the Void at 1CC covers most of it, Bind and Pithing Needle cover the very common Loyal Retainers/Iona, Shield of Emeria combo at the moment, the point of RG Aggro Meta, is that the whole deck, is a sideboard.
I'm going to post the same thing I PMed you with, just to prove a point:
You have absolutely no idea how a tutor sideboard works, do you? Let me break the idea down for you:
I run effectively 4x Enlightened Tutor (3 main, one side). Because I'm running Enlightened Tutor, I don't need to run 4-ofs in the board. Here, I can run a bunch of 1-ofs and 2-ofs and still have everything just as effective. In fact, the only cards that I run more than 2 of in the board are instants; everything else can be grabbed with the tutor.
As you can see, I am able to cover many matchups for many different archetypes without using three 4-ofs and a 3-of. By using a bunch of singletons, I can cover my ass much more efficiently/
Claiming that your deck covers everything is a lie. I'm not claiming that my deck covers everything, but because I'm using a ETutor sideboard, the deck is able to cover significantly more of the field. Because I'm running ETutor main, I'm able to include sideboard-esque cards in the main. Additionally as the metagame shifts (either locally, or on a national/global scale), it's not too difficult to change the MD/Sideboard to fit the shift. One of the things I love about playing Rifter is how easily it is to change up a few slots to make performances against X number of decks significantly better.
you don't admit the mistakes you did with this deck, you run your deck into a heavy aggro meta, which is clear it's not the current Legacy's meta, unless you want to play it in your hometown, in any pro tour it gets eaten alive, shall I remind you of your 5 match ups?
What mistakes have I made? I'm currently running this deck in an aggro-heavy metagame. I specifically said in the opening post that the deck will perform best in an aggro-heavy metagame.
POX / TES / TES vs MERFOLK / AFFINITY - 2 Aggro decks, 2 combos and the Archetype so you say? You already have a Archetype and the deck is not even known?
No really, I think it's because some things your deck doesn't have covered, or won't seem to have since you're too busy saying "oh I'll build sideboard later because I have all this awesome cards" (fiction quote), and THAT is your only mistake right now, your sideboard has 15 slots, you'll find out that some things your sideboard WON'T cover, and have to be included in main deck, because they NEED to be there, so when you actually post, a 60 card deck, with a 15 card sideboard, that is supposed to do COMPETITIVELY WELL in the current meta, full of Heavy Discard, Heavy Counter, Pox, etc. you're on the wrong track to make this deck good.
You're sitting here claiming that I need to cover every deck that could ever possibly show up in legacy? As you've been told multiple times, no deck has favorable matchups versus 100% of the field, and no deck/sideboard can possibly cover themselves against every strategy; the format is just too vast. However, what I can do safely is choose decks that are far less likely to show up in my metagame and opt to *not* waste my slots hating them out. For example, right now, there's no Survival by me, so there's no need for me to waste my time putting in additional hate for Vengevine/Iona-Retainers/Necrotic Ooze. Same can be said for Countertop; I'm the only player who ever plays it by me. Chalice Stompy, etc... they're all decks that I don't see by me, so there's no need for me to hate against.
There are also plenty of decks that don't make appearances (or place well) on a larger scale. As times change, the need to include specific hate for certain decks diminishes. You remember when Solidarity was the deck to beat? So even if [Deck A] only has a 20% win rate against [Deck B] (an old popular deck) but at least fairly even matchups against the rest of the field, it's very unlikely that 3/8 matches in a larger event will be against [Deck B]; [Deck A] will likely perform fine overall. It's fine to punt certain matches, given that you can compensate for them in the rest of the field.
Rifter needs to change as the metagame changes. I build my sideboard to fit the needs of the area in which I'm playing, and the same thing can be said for my main deck. Obviously I'm not going to waste my time with Aura of Silence if nothing but Goblins is being played. Hell, if the entire metagame is storm combo, I'm probably going to play something with blue. A good player will shift with the metagame; that's how I play this deck.
Oh wait, Eva Green minus Goyf, so I should say Heavy on the discard with Tombstalker in the end? Nantuko Shade? So in a local tournament the first heavy discard deck you find it's 0-2 for you... So.. Hmmm... I dunno... Maybe something's missing that the tutor didn't cover..?
Here's what I'm reading: "I saw 0-2 and didn't bother to read the match description" Admittedly, I lost that match 0-2, but it was due to lazy plays and tired play mistakes, and had the "I'm already guaranteed in" mentality pushing them. What I didn't post is that the next week, I played the same matchup round 1 and took it 2-0. See, I get lazy when I've got nothing to gain; it's just how I am. It's like, yeah, I can swim a 1:52 at my conference meet, but I've got no real reason to do that in the preliminaries. What matters is that I make it to top8; other than that, it doesn't matter, as long as I come back and compete to my fullest when it really matters (finals for swimming, and top 4 for these tournaments).
The deck isn't dead, it's just not the most common occurrence, which probably helps explain many of your complaints about this deck. I can't recommend that you try it out yourself, but it seems that you've already made up your mind about it.
And you claim that I did nothing to change the deck for the current metagame? Again, you're proving that you don't bother to read the OP.
I plan of continuing to play this deck, and post notes regarding matchups, etc.
More importantly, your constant complaint about how my matchups are, and how I need sideboard hate for everything... have you ever played this deck or seen it played (Hell, or even read through the decklist that I played)? Obviously you haven't, because if you have, you'd know that the hate that I'm running is sufficient for many matchups. For the matchups where I don't have a high to very-high win rate... well, even the tier decks have their weaknesses. If you read any primer in the Proven Competitive section, the matchup analysis for every deck (where it is completed) lists at least one bad matchup. Any deck claiming otherwise is lying; no deck has a favorable matchup against 100% of the field. If there were one, everyone would play it, or play to hate it, which would lead to it not having that dominating power overall.
And you claim that I did nothing to change the deck for the current metagame? Again, you're proving that you don't bother to read the OP.
I plan of continuing to play this deck, and post notes regarding matchups, etc.
I'd appreciate some matchups. As I posted before, I'm building it for an aggro heavy/loam heavy meta. And thanks for the Source link to the deck. Somehow in the hours I spent there, I didnt see it.
I only have TWO things to say about EVERYTHING you said, covering IT ALL, first, I thought developing competitive was worldwide competitive, your "current meta-game" is called casual, you play with your friends in your card shop, what's considered competitive, is decks you can take at worlds, or pro tours, this deck you can't. Point made. For a casual on a heavy-aggro meta-game? Sure... Why not, that and faster decks directed at raping creatures.
Casual is what you play with your friends in your basement. Developing Competitive are what people what to pilot in a legacy event.
If you go back and look at your initial post, its pretty harsh. That may be setting off the mod and poppeleseed a little bit. In addition, your level of hostility has gotten higher and you obviously haven't researched this deck well since it actually as old as Goblins.
The mod isn't looking out for you like your parents are. He's looking out for the forum. He is the mod because he showed he support a healthy forum. That's why someone is a mod. Don't throw around fascism if you don't know what it is.
You only get treated as well as you treat people.
Have you tested against Dredge? I'm currently a Dredge player and I'm curious about how well your hate controls them since I've seen 4 Relic to not be enough to shift a game against me.
You can ban me for all I care, this forum is completely biased, almost like fascism, I realize I'm being kinda extremist when I say this, it's like trying to compare McDonalds with Slavery, but I thought when I signed up we would have a free space to discuss ideas, but the moderators take this way too serious, and take away all the fun from the users, not even the official forums at Wizards are like this... Or half like it to be honest. poppeleseed quotes me, directs something at me, and I'm supposed NOT to answer? Didn't see him get an infraction about posting on my threads but yeah, more fascism like I said. I'm sure you're a fully respected mod around here, or maybe people know you because you "moderate too much", maybe you should learn to moderate yourself, those with power seek to use it, true, but hope you realize that power is not yours to begin with.
"You will stop. And you will stop now" lol what? Not even my parents talked to me like that.
So how many decks do you have that deal with 100% of every meta, rogue decks included? It seems you came here just to put down popple's deck. At first it was okay, with asking questions, but now, you're just here to troll.
this forum is completely biased, almost like fascism, I realize I'm being kinda extremist when I say this, it's like trying to compare McDonalds with Slavery, but I thought when I signed up we would have a free space to discuss ideas,
Keeping you from blindly bashing someone's deck is biased? Ok.
not even the official forums at Wizards are like this... Or half like it to be honest.
Of course. Their's are under managed, desolate, and out of date. Last time I was there, there was a giant flame fest over a Second Sunrise Egg combo deck. Coincidentally, the person(s) starting the flame war acted much in the manner you have.
Didn't see him get an infraction about posting on my threads but yeah,
I don't see any reports from anyone about his posts in your threads. However, I have quite a few about you posting in his. Also, his warnings/infractions are between him and the staff. Yours are just more 'public' cause you keep stepping over the line.
I'm sure you're a fully respected mod around here,
Seeing how the general poster base isn't calling for my head, and seeing how none of the 2010 Legacy mod apps weren't saying 'I'm applying cause Cabal_chan is terrible and I want to replace him"...yes, I like to think I'm at least moderately respected.
//www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3141-[Deck">-RW-Rifter-%28White-Based-Control%29"]Rifter thread at MTGTheSource
There are two listings for Rifter on Deckcheck.net:
I. Why Play Rifter?
II. Card Choices
III. Debatable Card Choices
V. Sideboard Suggestions
VI. Sample Decklists
VII. Sample Matchup Analysis
Section I - Why play Rifter?
The deck can also be fairly cheap to build. Many pieces are under or right around $5; the entire deck can be build fairly easily for under $200 (naturally, it will cost more if you opt for a full set of duals, Moat, etc.)
Lightning Rift – Namesake of the deck, alongside the cyclers, this card can be incredibly potent. For an additional 1 mana, every cycle both cantrips and shocks.
Enlightened Tutor – Strongly recommended, although not necessarily necessary (sorry if that sounds redundant). Running 3 of these allows you to run fewer of your other lock pieces (Humility, Lightning Rift) and still add consistency, and also allows you to run a toolbox.
Slice and Dice – Mostly used for its cycling effect, this card can really mess with some strategies. Wiping away Silvergill Adepts, goblin tokens and elves, alongside Rift, this card can destroy many decks.
Eternal Dragon – Being able to make a land drop every turn is decent. A recurring way to shoot your opponent or their creatures is pretty damn sweet.
Decree of Justice – A pretty solid finisher. Humility allows for even the puny tokens created from this to tackle Progenitus or Emrakul
Renewed Faith – Six life for three mana isn’t terrible. Gaining two for two, with a cantrip is solid. This can throw storm players off, helps you dig, and offers another way to shock with Rift.
Swords to Plowshares – The best targeted removal in the game. A natural inclusion for a control deck.
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The Cycle Lands – Cycles for 1, or can be used as a legitimate mana source when necessary.
Blood Moon – Strongly recommended. Significantly cripples many Thresh builds, Landstill, Pox, Land.dec, etc. It’s an incredibly strong deck in the metagame.
Orim’s Chant – A simple solution that can be included main deck to help with combo. A well timed chant can also interrupt many decks’ tempo (for example, in response to a Dark Ritual or a Seething Song). Against aggro decks, for an additional W, it can basically act as a Time Walk
Abeyance - See Orim's Chant. I strongly suggest running one or the other main deck, as it makes so many thing so easy. The perk here is that you get a cantrip; the downside is that it's more narrow in it's application. They both do, however, act as a means of guaranteeing your big threats land.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant – One crazy mother. Seriously, this girl can be incredibly powerful. With Humility, her tokens can take on nearly all challengers. Her Angelic Blessing ability lets you fly over your opponents in 95+% of situations, and if you opt to play Moat, it’s a solid way to sneak around that.
Ajani Vengeant - Possible alternative to Elspeth. Can create some tempo, and depending on your build, can make for a rough time for your opponent. The ability to keep legitimate threats tapped down, keeping your opponents off of vital colours, and gaining life in a pinch can all make it worthwhile.
Moat – Crazy expensive, but alongside Humility, creates a nearly impenetrable wall against aggro.
Sensei’s Divining Top – I personally don’t find it necessary, but the card selection can help find the answers you need. I feel that with the cycling that you’ll be doing, and the lack of shuffle effects, as well as a lack of a means to abuse it, there could be better use of slots.
Edit: Just finished going through DeckDB.com and the Rifter thread at MTGTheSource.com to compile a list of all cards ran since 2005 from decklists found on these sites. Full list below:
Abeyance
Ajani Vengeant
Akroma's vengeance - Boardwipes like a champ, leaves behind lands and Planeswalkers. Cycles, so it's never a dead card.
Aura of Silence
Blood Moon
Burning Wish - Alternative to ETutor. IMO it's less versatile and a bit more limited in its effects.
Chalice of the Void
Clear - A Demistify that Cycles.
Damping Matrix
Decree of Justice
Disenchant - What can I even say about this? Really.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Enlightened Tutor
Eternal Dragon
Exalted Angel - The only build I've seen this main decked in was using only one Humility. I woudn't recommend in the main, mostly because Humility is just that good.
Firespout - Pyroclasm +1. Gets better now that zoo has access to Kird Ape and Nacatl (and to a lesser extent, Loam Lion). Also squashes merfolk, goblins, elves, etc.
Gilded Light - Protection from Discard, storm cards like Tendrils of Agony and Brain Freeze, Intuition, burn spells, etc. Cycles in a pinch.
Goblin Assault
Humility
Lightning Helix - Removal that gains life.
Lightning Rift
Magma Jet - Removal that Filters. I've seen it in a build using Top, and used to run it myself before I was using Enlightened Tutor.
Moat
Oblivion Ring
Orim's chant
Orim's Thunder - A bit more expensive than Disenchant, but also 'doubles' as removal.
Pithing Needle
Pulse of the Fields - Life gain. Gotta love it.
Pyroclasm - See Firespout. Less damaging, but a bit cheaper. Also hits *all* creatures.
Radiant's Judgment - Blows up larger creatures (Tarmogoyf, KotR, etc). Also cycles.
Relic of Progenitus
Renewed Faith
Rune of Protection: Green
Rune of Protection: Red
Runed Halo
Scrap - See Clear. A Shatter that cycles.
Seal of Cleansing
Sensei's Divining Top
Slice and Dice
Spark Spray - A decent option in a goblins-infested metagame; another option to kill off a turn 1 Lackey.
Starstorm - A variable pyroclasm. Costs more, and is instant speed. Cycles as needed.
Story Circle
Swords to Plowshares
Tormod's Crypt
Wing Shards - Alternative answer to creatures with protection/shroud. Storm can make
Wrath of God - Most efficient board wipe. 4 mana, full-on removal.
Lands:
Ancient Den
Arid Mesa - Lets you grab the colour you need. Leaves you slightly susceptable to Stifle, but also offers a bit more versatility.
Battlefield Forge - Functions as another Dual Land.
Flagstones of Trokair - Helps dodge land destruction. Suggested back when WW with 'Geddon was a threat.
Forgotten Cave
Kher Keep - Makes dudes that kill under humility.
Kjeldoran Outpost - See Kher Keep. Has the disadvantage of costing you a land (and therefore, you can be 2-for-1ed), but taps for white and the critters are less dead without humility.
Kor Haven - Damage prevention. However, with the normal removal spells at our disposal, this seems quite unnecessary.
Plateau
Sacred Foundry - See Battlefield Forge. Better as it can be fetched with EDragon
Secluded Steppe
Rule of Law – Again, a nice way to help with storm. I’ve found it to be lackluster in the main deck, although depending on your meta, it could prove useful.
Crucible of Worlds – Can be used to counteract land destruction, to play your cycling lands after cycling, or you can opt to change the manabase to better suit crucible, if you so desire.
Oblivion Ring – A tutorable way to remove threats… I think that pretty much explains it.
Tormod’s Crypt, Pithing Needle, Damping Matrix – Metagame choices. I personally run none of these, but some of the decks on deckcheck.net use them. Look at your metagame before throwing these in; make sure to have as few dead cards as possible for your meta as a whole.
Warning - This may be a little on the long side.
If you believe I'm missing something, feel free to PM me, or make a suggestion in a post. However, like The Phantom Mullet, if you make a suggestion thinking you're being all original and/or insightful and it's already here, posting this 'new suggestion' gives me the right to rip on you to no end.
Artifacts:
The artifact lands - Lands that you can tutor for in a pinch. It never hurts to have options.
Chalice of the Void - Most likely to play at zero to help deal with Storm. 1 interferes with Chant and ETutor, 2 interferes with Abeyance and Rift... just be careful if you opt to use it.
Engineered Explosives - I like this is noteworthy, because of its many applications. It helps deal with opposing Chalices, tokens, a plethora of miscellaneous others, just for zero. 1 eats AEther Vial, Mana Elves... well, the list goes on. See also: Ratchet Bomb and Powder Keg
Tormod's Crypt - Graveyard hate. Depending on your metagame, it might be worth running main deck. See also: Relic of Progenitus
Brittle Effigy - Possible application? I dunno... Emrakul? It's a stretch. I'm really pushing it.
Cursed Scroll - Again, a bit of a stretch, but seems humorous with Humility. Again, not at the top of my suggestions, but I thought I'd include it.
Dispeller's Capsule - Artifact/Enchantment hate.
Pithing Needle - Hello Survival (this statement to be invalidated in six days)
The spellbombs - What, there's ten of them now? 7 can theoretically be used in a straight RW build, and 4 of those can be used to their fullest. However, most of them are junk. Nihil and Origin are the most noteworthy in my eyes, but use your judgment.
Relic of Progenitus - Grave hate. See Tormod's Crypt
Sensei's Divining Top - Card selection. Can be abused with Enlightened Tutor, Eternal Dragon and fetchlands (if you opt to run them).
Defense Grid - Taxes countermagic, and toys around with Solidarity.
Ethersworn Canonist - Storm Hate. These matchups, I'm taking out Humility anyway... it works beautifully.
Isochron Scepter - I just had to put this one down. Chant Stick is a *****, but if you want to really use it, I'd just suggest looking at the Quinn thread.
Null Rod - Affinity? Suck on that!
Powder Keg - See Engineered Explosives
Ratchet Bomb - See Engineered Explosives
Sphere of Resistance - Combo hate.
Tsabo's Web - Cantrips and is definitely an interesting answer to Land.dec, etc.
Caltrops - It's cute. It works with humility, but it's cute, and that's about it.
Crucible of Worlds - Allows for some fun options in your manabase, abusing Fetchlands, Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, grabbing back cycled lands...
Trinisphere - Slows ☺☺☺☺ down, works humorously with Wasteland, but ultimately, if you're going down that road, a Staxx variant might suit you better.
Thunderstaff - See Caltrops. It's cute, it 'combos' with Humility, but alone, it doesn't do that much, and seems questionable
Urza's Armor - See Thunderstaff, except it costs 6.
White Enchantment:
Aegis of Honor - Burn. Laugh in the face of burn.
Genju of the Fields - It stacks again! Call it a tutorable win condition, life gain... whatever you'd like to call it.
The Circles - Take your pick. It answers Progenitus, so the hydra can suck it! (Really, I'm not bitter at all)
The Runes - See The Circles. Only uses white mana, but also cycles in a pinch.
Runed Halo - Potential hate against storm, Ooze, Progenitus, Grindstone, Intuition... it's actually incredibly versatile.
Greater Auramancy - Generally not too necessary, just gives your ☺☺☺☺ shroud.
Sacred Ground - Pox, Staxx, wasteland, (annihilator, if you can get it out early enough and stall long enough)... strongly suggested, at least as a 1-of in the board.
Seal of Cleansing - Tutorable Disenchant.
Serenity - Takes a turn, but eats Affinity, Enchantress...
Spiritual Focus - Rather invalidates discard strategies. The problem is that after this lands, they're significantly less inclined to try to rape your hand.
Warmth - Another humorous answer to burn. I don't hate the idea of it, and once it lands, it does significantly (theoretically) slow them down. Actually, as I'm writing this, I'm trying to find the downside...
Wheel of Sun and Moon - Works as grave hate, stops Modular triggers, Persist...
Aura Fracture - Works best with Crucible, but is definitely is a fun answer to Enchantress.
Aura of Silence - Taxes artifacts/enchantments, plus turns itself into a Disenchant. It seems like a logical inclusion main deck.
Divine Presence - Unnecessary, at best. Humility deals better with creatures, and how often do you get hit with fireball in legacy?
Ghostly Prison - Moat seems infinitely better. Also, it doesn't stop creatures from attacking your planeswalkers, so beware. Works fine against tribal decks, token swarms, etc, but does nothing against Progenitus, Emrakul, Terravore, Knight of the Reliquary, etc.
Karmic Justice - They kill your stuff, this retaliates.
Oblivion Ring - Gets rid of: Emrakul, Jace (and any other planeswalker)... well, use your brain. It answers all sorts of ☺☺☺☺. I'd suggest running 1x in the main.
Orim's Prayer - See thunderstaff, urza's armor.
Rule of Law - See Ethersworn Canonist. Costs one more, and doesn't attack, but redundancy never hurts in this situation.
Story Circle - See the Circles. Costs one more and only uses white mana, but you get to choose the colour. Seems more logical than any circle MD, but depending on the metagame, an appropriate Rune seems better.
Moat - Turns into a hard lock with Humility, stops goblins, elves, most merfolk, Progenitus, most thresh/counterbalance/new horizons/rock creatures... it's a beast.
Reverance - A crappy Moat. Limits their attack, but does nothing against anything... well, decent sized. Does lock with Humility, but isn't nearly as effective as Moat.
Ivory Mask - Gives you shroud... That pretty much covers it.
Leyline of Sanctity - See Ivory Mask. Has the added benefit of coming free if it's in your opener.
Red Enchantments - I wish I could legitimately justify even half of these
Brutal Suppression - Very narrow, but I felt the need to bring this one up, if only for the lulz.
Pyrostatic Pillar/Spellshock - Answers storm. It's funny.
Scald - ... Solidarity? I dunno, I'm forcing this.
Blood Moon - This is probably the most strongly recommended of the red enchantments. It does so much... I will virtually always advocate running at least one in the main and one in the side.
Everlasting Torment - Stops life gain... I dunno, I'm forcing it like none other.
Magnetic Mountain - Theoretically slows down merfolk, faeries, etc, but they do have answers. I'm not going to advocate this, just post it as a possible 'answer', dependent on your metagame
Sacred Ground – If Geddon Staxx, MBC, or New Horizons are prevalent, this might be a good consideration. Depending on how prevalent, it might be worth putting Main Deck, although it might be a bit of a stretch.
Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast – Answers blue.
Abeyance – Compliments Orim’s Chant, cantrips, and just randomly can win games.
Tormod’s Crypt/Relic of Progenitus – Graveyard hate. It’s just a good idea to have some hate, somewhere in the sideboard.
Aura Fracture – A little-known Prophesy card that turns each of your lands into a Demystify. A very solid answer to enchantress, and is pretty much sure to get you a “what the ☺☺☺☺ is this ☺☺☺☺?!” response.
Edit: Just finished going through DeckDB.com and the Rifter thread at MTGTheSource.com to compile a list of all sideboard cards ran since 2005 from decklists found on these sites. Full list below:
Abeyance
Akroma's Vengeance
Aura of Silence
Blood Moon
Boil - Goodbye Islands.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - Makes ☺☺☺☺ uncounterable. However, because it only affects Instants and Sorceries, it seems much less
Chalice of the Void
Circle of Protection: Green
Circle of Protection: Red
Damping Matrix
Dead // Gone - 1 cc Shock or a 3cc Unsummon.
Disenchant
Drought - I just read this. It looks sadistic. Unfortunately, it costs 4 and has an upkeep cost.
Enlightened Tutor
Ethersworn Canonist
Exalted Angel
Gilded Light
Glowrider - Functions as a Thorm of Amythyst that beats face. Doesn't work with humility, but if run, you'll probably be siding out Humility for it anyway.
Humility
Isochron Scepter
Ivory Mask
Jester's Cap - Suggested against Quinn and storm. I feel that there are better/easier/less mana intensive answers.
Karmic Justice
Lightning Helix
Moat
Mogg Salvage - Potentially free Shatter.
Mountain Goat - WTF? Seriously, it was in one of the lists, and I still can't figure out why...
Null Rod
Orim's Chant
Orim's Thunder
Pithing Needle
Pulse of the Fields
Pyroblast
Pyroclasm
Pyrostatic Pillar
Red Elemental Blast
Reiterate - A reusable Fork.
Relic of Progenitus
Replenish - Gives you resiliency to enchantment wipe, although it's nowhere near as good in Rifter as it is in Enchantress.
Reverence
Ruination - Catastrophic against so many decks. See Blood Moon
Rule of Law
Rune of Protection: Green
Runed Halo
Sacred Ground
Scald
Seal of Cleansing
Second Sunrise - Suggested against 'Geddon effects and the like.
Serenity
Silence - See Orim's Chant
Sphere of Law
Thorn of Amethyst
Tormod's Crypt
Trinisphere
Urza's Rage - I can only imagine this was a finisher, but this is beyond dated.
Wing Shards
***********Burning Wish*****************
Akroma's Vengeance
Cleanfall
Cleansing Meditation
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Justice
Divine Offering
Hammer of Bogardan
Meltdown
Pyroclasm
Ruination
Shatterstorm
Wrath of God
For additional sideboard help, visit Xanth’s Primer for Legacy Sideboarding and Sideboard Material here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=134453
Kjeldoran Outpost, - Seems kinda cute with Humility. I actually like the idea of a land that pumps out critters, but I'm turned off by the ability to get two-for-oned for that chance, especially in a format littered with Wasteland.
Goblin Assault - Another cute way to abuse Humility. I feel like Elspeth, Knight-Errant is a bit stronger, but that's based on my speculation; no actual testing on my part. I do, however, like that it can be tutored for.
Other notable tutor targets MD: Damping Matrix, Rule of Law and Story Circle.
Another thing to note is that this build is over two years old. New cards have been released and metagames change. Adapt accordingly.
3 Eternal Dragon
Sorcery - 7
2 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Decree of Justice
1 Pyroclasm
1 Slice and Dice
Instant - 12
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Renewed Faith
1 Starstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
Artifact - 2
1 Damping Matrix
1 Pithing Needle
Enchantment -12
1 Aura of Silence
1 Goblin Assault
4 Humility
3 Lightning Rift
1 Moat
1 Rule of Law
1 Story Circle
1 Battlefield Forge
4 Forgotten Cave
1 Kjeldoran Outpost
4 Mountain
8 Plains
3 Plateau
4 Secluded Steppe
1 Akroma's Vengeance
3 Damping Matrix
1 Ivory Mask
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Reiterate
2 Rule of Law
1 Sacred Ground
1 Seal of Cleansing
And here’s a deck that I piloted this past weekend to first place in a local tournament (12 people):
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Aura of Silence
1 Blood Moon
3 Humility
3 Lightning Rift
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Orim’s Chant
4 Renewed Faith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Decree of Justice
2 Slice and Dice
4 Forgotten Cave
2 Mountain
8 Plains
4 Secluded Steppe
1 Taiga
2 Wasteland
My matchups were as follows:
Affinity (1-0) – Humility is less of a kick in the crotch to them, as Modular Creatures will still come into play with a counter on them, putting them out of range of your Slice and Dice. Ajani + Swords + Rift + Aura all worked together to shut them down. We ended up going to time, although he was at two and I had another cycler in hand, I was just two mana shy before our last turn.
Pox (2-0) – Blood Moon proves its worth. Once that mother lands, a lot of decks will struggle. Crucible + Wasteland helps stall, and Swords should definitely be used to eliminate Bloodghasts. Sideboarding in Graveyard Hate plus additional Blood Moons can make this match a lot easier. Well timed chants in response to Dark Rituals can be hilarious.
TES (2-0) – This matchup should be rough. Fortunately for me, he mulliganed to oblivion both games (six mulligans between two games), but Orim’s Chant main and Abeyance in the board really proved their worth.
Eva Green minus Goyf (0-2) – I was guaranteed top 4, and I got lazy. Chant can be useful when well timed (again, in response to Dark Ritual) but heavy discard can prove annoying (to say the least), and ultimately, I kinda stopped caring
Cut to Top 4 (Myself, Eva Green, Merfolk and TES). I was matched up against TES again.
TES (2-1) – Same general strategy, although there was much less mulliganing. Ethersworn Canonist, Orim’s Chant, Abeyance, and Engineered Explosives all help, and Ajani to keep the proper (necessary) mana sources tapped, Wasteland, etc. can all hurt them significantly. Renewed Faith as a surprise “hey, you need 1 more storm” that can be cast through their Chants can all be crazy against them.
Merfolk (1-0) – Landed Humility, basically won from there. Alongside Blood Moon (to shut down their Wastelands and Mutavaults), the game was made pretty easy. He ended up conceding game two to me, chiefly because he didn't have an appropriate sideboard and so that he could take off.
I’ll try to keep this updated with new results, decklists, cardchoices, etc, but despite my return, there’s always a chance I’ll disappear for a while. If I’ve appeared to disappear for a while, message me on AIM; if I’m on, I’ll answer.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
I've put a little thought into Astral Slide, and the reality is, if you want to use slide, let the deck revolve around it. Slide + Humility is so lackluster. Also, with 3 humility and 3 tutor, and with all the filtering we're doing, it's incredibly likely that you'll find one of the two.
As for the -1 Faith, +1 Rift, it's kinda the same thing as above. With 3 Rifts and 3 Tutors, you've basically got it. While multiples can be nice, a lot of the time, it's not necessary; once you've got a lock, many decks can't recover. As for Renewed Faith, the life gain can be invaluable in some matchups. There's nothing like sitting at 21 and watching your opponent squirm as they realize they've only got the storm to tendrils for 20.
Ajani vs. Elspeth is a metagame and/or personal choice. In an aggro heavy meta, I'd totally push for Elspeth, but combo or heavy control filled meta, Ajani is probably the better call. Ultimately it comes down to your play style.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Unlike Dragon Stompy, this deck should be able to perform *at least* fairly well in both underdeveloped and developed metagames. Now, if this "underdeveloped" metagame is predominately dredge and combo, it's not going to be your best call, but if it's mostly aggro and aggro/control, you shouldn't have too much of an issue.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Thanks for the quick feedback, yea the underdeveloped portion is mostly tribal, the most dangerous deck being a competitive level merfolk deck but other then that all are fairly rogue-ish.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
This reminds me of the slide/rift deck from the onslaught t2 season
EDIT: my 888 Post!!
Legacy Competitive
BUReanimatorUB
RUSneaky ShowUR(Dismantled)
GBUReanimatorUBG(Retired)
(Pre-Mystical Tutor Banning)
{RIP:July 1, 2010}
Legacy Casual
UWBag Of TricksWU
GWEnchantressWG(Budget/In construction)
WSoul SistersW
Legacy Casual - Retired
UBT.E.S. - The EGG-pic StormBU
BGrave ExistenceB
Sig by Me =)
Just for the record, I played absolutely no part in this deck's design. I do, however, pilot it, and find it to be hilarious and a strong deck choice for many metagames.
This is a little similar to RiftSlide, although since Affinity is no longer the deck to beat, Astral Slide is no longer as strong of a choice as it once was. During Onslaught/Mirroden, Slide was used alongside Viridian Shaman and Eternal Witness to eat affinity alive. For legacy Astral Slide, visit the legacy archives here.
As mentioned above, Humility is significantly stronger than Astral Slide in most situations. Running Humility also does mean that your creature base has to be limited, but you can also take advantage of that as well (see Slice and Dice Decree of Justice and Elspeth, Knight-Errant). Slide allows you to use creatures with CIP triggers. Ultimately, it comes down to your play style and what your metagame looks like.
Edit: 'Grats on 888!
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Nice primer though. I don't agree with rune of protection over circle of protection despite the runes cycling the downside is when you actually cast them to stall aggro you need white mana to activate them and while we are 2-3 colors total depending on list I prefer the 1 activation cost of circle of protection.
I think you should also mention crucible of worlds as an option for a tutor target because it thins the deck out so well when combined with fetches and works very well against staxxx
Currently Playing:
Retired
My opponent actually had not misplayed. He had to drop the LED a turn earlier due to eight cards in hand and missing a win condition in there. I'm actually not sure if holding off on the EE was the right move, but I tend to procrastinate, even in situations like this (for example, classes have been going for a week and I just picked up my books this morning; no lie).
The list running Rune is quite dated. The benefit to running rune is that it's not a dead draw in multiples, and the majority of your lands will likely produce white (mostly plains, plus Eternal Dragon).
As for Crucible... it *is* listed, although not under toolbox, and is in the last decklist provided. It seems like a solid inclusion; it works well both with the cycle lands and fetches (if you do run them, which is definitely worth considering alongside Crucible).
******************************************************
Played in a local tournament today. Ended up getting the first round bye, but otherwise, had a pretty solid day.
Round 2, Eva Green.
Ajani really proved himself here. Ajani hit his ultimate, Blood Moon did its part, and even though all three of my Humility's and all three Rifts got nerfed (his first couple plays involved three Hymn to Tourachs), Ajani eating his lands, coupled with Blood Moon and Swords to Plowshares were able to eat his threats.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 3, Pyromancer's Ascension
Game one was tough; I've got so many dead cards against combo (Humility, Swords to Plowshares, Slice and Dice). Despite the Orim's Chants and EE/Aura of Silence, he was able to push through and get a lethal Grapeshot on me.
Sideboarding was intense. I literally brought in 12 cards against him:
(-3 Humility, -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Blood Moon, -2 Slice and Dice, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Lightning Rift, +3 Abeyance, +3 Abolish, +1 Tormod's Crypt, +1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Enlightened Tutor, +1 Aura Fracture, +1 Rule of Law, +1 Ethersworn Canonist)
Games two and three, basically, I just brought too much stuff in for him to deal with. Relic of Progenitus as a slow way to remove his grave, coupled with Canonist + Aura Fracture basically means that they can't combo out. Well-times Abeyance/Orim's Chant can slow them down significantly.
2-0 (4-1)
Round 4, New Horizons
I've seen this matchup played out before, so I was wary right off the start.
Game one, he had a ☺☺☺☺ hand. Basically, no blue, no way to slow me down, and by turn 4, I had Blood Moon and two Lightning Rifts down. He crumbled pretty hard.
Sideboard, +2 Blood Moon, -1 EE, -1 Aura of Silence
Games two and three, he saw what he needed, and his deck did it right. Basically, Humility got countered, Ajani activations got Stifled, and it was just rough. Terravore got huge off my cycle lands, and it just got overwhelming too quickly.
2-1 (5-3)
Overall, it wasn't a bad day. I wish we had a chance to play for top 4 (Top 4 would have been me, New Horizons, Goblins and TES), but people had to head out, so we effectively split.
A couple thoughts from today:
1. Ajani: I love him. I'm legitimately at a tossup right now as to whether I'd rather have him or Elspeth.
2. Blood Moon: still as strong as I mentioned earlier. A resolved Blood Moon eats so many decks in the format.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
A couple thoughts here:
Aegis of Honor - Effectively redirects any burn spell. Can be grabbed by E-tutor, which is really wonderful. Be sure to keep enough mana open to cover yourself.
Rune of Protection: Red - From the original build, this was really made to answer red. Cycles, so should never be a dead draw. The white activation can randomly screw you, but there should be enough white sources to make that almost negligible.
Story Circle - Answers more than burn. Downside is that it costs 3, and the W activation cost, like with rune, can sometimes be detrimental.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
I'm building this deck for my aggro/creature heavy meta, mostly because i have most of the parts from a casual Astral Slide deck I had built. And thats what I like about it, is that like enchantress, its almost a toolbox that can answer most decks. I'm just worried about relying on Lightning Rift, Ajani, or Eternal Dragon as wincons
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Get your facts right. Julian Nuitjen did indeed win the 2004 World Championship with a Cycling-based control deck; however, it was G/W Slide. Saying that Slide and Rifter are the same decks because of a few similarities is like saying that UB Reanimator and New Horizons are the same because they all run Force/Daze/Brainstorm/Ponder.
If you do insist on calling these the same deck, calling the modifications "a few changes" is insulting. Here's the total similarities between the two decks:
Eternal Dragon (My current list runs 3, he ran 4)
Renewed Faith (Both running 4)
Decree of Justice (both running 2)
Secluded Steppe (both running 4)
Plains (I'm running 8, he ran 6)
Here, there's a total of exactly 19 slots that are identical (including the basics)
As for Naya... There's already a GRW aggro deck. It's called Zoo. Turns out, it performs pretty well.
Jace is good, but it's not unanswerable. Most decks that rely on Jace seem to have very fragile manabases; I like to prey on that.
Evidence? Seriously, heavy countermagic can be rough, and theoretically heavy discard should be bad too, but I haven't experienced as much difficulty as should be expected in that situation.
Again, evidence? Granted, game one might be a little rough, depending on draws, but post board, you can bring in everything from Abeyance to Rule of Law, Ethersworn Canonist, Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt (answer to IGG), Blood Moon, etc. The match might look rough on paper, but if you've actually played it (which obviously, you haven't), you'd know that it's not an impossible matchup.
Grave hate is typically in the sideboard. I don't like to include a full sideboard; I'll give general ideas, but I like to see people try to make their sideboard work for their metagame. If you're that concerned about Reanimator in your metagame, run more grave hate. If you're really *that* desperate, running a singleton Savannah/Taiga would allow for Wing Snare or Plummet
I've PMed you regarding this. If you don't like the deck, feel free to leave.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
I run 3 Enlightened Tutor main, one in the board, and most of my answers for most threats can be tutored with the aforementioned card. That's the closest to a universal sideboard you'll be able to find.
Rifter is a metagame deck, the same way that Slide was. The difference is what metagame you're aiming to deal with. Slide was built when Affinity was the deck: Slide reset modular counters, Viridian Shaman ate single creatures, MD Wrath of God and Akroma's Vengeance were basically one-sided board wipes.
Rifter was originally built to fight through a Goblins heavy metagame. Swords to Plowshares answers a turn one Goblin Lackey, Engineered Explosives eats all tokens, Lightning Rift basically kills any goblin, and Humility demolishes anything "tribal" about the deck. The deck has changed since its creation, but still eats aggro alive.
The cards that are similar between the decks are similar for some pretty obvious reasons:
Renewed Faith: both decks were trying to survive in an aggro heavy metagame. It digs, plus helps you hold out until your board wipe hits.
Eternal Dragon: A recurring threat, plus a way to trigger your deck's enchantment consistently.
Cycle Lands: Both decks run enchantments that trigger off Cycling. It just makes sense.
Decree of Justice: It's an uncounterable win condition. Turns out that's really solid, regardless of what format you're playing.
Plains: You don't really read what I write, do you?
I see nothing in common.
So you bring up one deck as a means of saying that the entire archetype is worthless? Watch, I can do that too:
RG Aggro Meta: OMG! What do you do against Dredge? Relic in the board? Wow, 4 slots? Like they won't be bringing in all sorts of hate against that
Elves Storm: Whatever do you do against Staxx? Chalice, Trinisphere... Wow, it sounds worthless.
U/W Force Trap Control: Seriously?
Countertop: 3-4 Colours
Bant: 3 Colours
Deedstill: 3-4 Colours
Maybe it's just because I'm looking at what's considered to be upper tier by both MTGSalvation and MTGTheSource, but it appears that the more competitive decks that use Jace are running 3+ colours, fully justifying that "fragile manabase" statement I made. Blood Moon and Wasteland recursion (via Crucible) is generally good in those situations.
If you'd read the OP (which it's becoming more and more obvious that you haven't), you'll understand that this is a metagame deck. If you're walking into a combo-infested metagame, you're begging to get bent over. If you're unsure of your metagame, this probably isn't the best call, at least until you're comfortable with what's floating around.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
I agree with this completely. I used to play Rifter many moons ago during the age of Goblins and once the metagame starts changing, you have to change your 75. The deck's advantage is that it preys on the common pitfalls of other decks: overextending threats (both on the board and in the graveyard), multicolor mana bases, reliance on permission to gain board advantage, Storm. Rather than playing a specific strategy, you attempt to negate other strategies with a versatile number of options. It is very obvious how this is done if you look carefully at the deck.
Fábio Gaspar, I was under the impression you were going to stop posting in this thread.
poppeleseed, don't encourage him.
It's been a rough week. It's like people want me to hand red cards out. Don't.
Edit: Thread has been reopened. Behave.
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
As I've said before, time and time again, Rifter needs to be tailored to the metagame. If I were to take this to a larger event, it would be a different list than if I were playing this in a smaller local event.
More importantly, your constant complaint about how my matchups are, and how I need sideboard hate for everything... have you ever played this deck or seen it played (Hell, or even read through the decklist that I played)? Obviously you haven't, because if you have, you'd know that the hate that I'm running is sufficient for many matchups. For the matchups where I don't have a high to very-high win rate... well, even the tier decks have their weaknesses. If you read any primer in the Proven Competitive section, the matchup analysis for every deck (where it is completed) lists at least one bad matchup. Any deck claiming otherwise is lying; no deck has a favorable matchup against 100% of the field. If there were one, everyone would play it, or play to hate it, which would lead to it not having that dominating power overall.
I'm going to post the same thing I PMed you with, just to prove a point:
I run effectively 4x Enlightened Tutor (3 main, one side). Because I'm running Enlightened Tutor, I don't need to run 4-ofs in the board. Here, I can run a bunch of 1-ofs and 2-ofs and still have everything just as effective. In fact, the only cards that I run more than 2 of in the board are instants; everything else can be grabbed with the tutor.
My current sideboard is as follows:
1 Aegis of Honor
3 Abeyance
3 Abolish
1 Aura Fracture
2 Blood Moon
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rule of Law
1 Tormod's Crypt
As you can see, I am able to cover many matchups for many different archetypes without using three 4-ofs and a 3-of. By using a bunch of singletons, I can cover my ass much more efficiently/
Claiming that your deck covers everything is a lie. I'm not claiming that my deck covers everything, but because I'm using a ETutor sideboard, the deck is able to cover significantly more of the field. Because I'm running ETutor main, I'm able to include sideboard-esque cards in the main. Additionally as the metagame shifts (either locally, or on a national/global scale), it's not too difficult to change the MD/Sideboard to fit the shift. One of the things I love about playing Rifter is how easily it is to change up a few slots to make performances against X number of decks significantly better.
What mistakes have I made? I'm currently running this deck in an aggro-heavy metagame. I specifically said in the opening post that the deck will perform best in an aggro-heavy metagame.
Just because you haven't heard of it, //www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3141-[Deck">-RW-Rifter-%28White-Based-Control%29"]doesn't mean that it hasn't been around for ages.
You're sitting here claiming that I need to cover every deck that could ever possibly show up in legacy? As you've been told multiple times, no deck has favorable matchups versus 100% of the field, and no deck/sideboard can possibly cover themselves against every strategy; the format is just too vast. However, what I can do safely is choose decks that are far less likely to show up in my metagame and opt to *not* waste my slots hating them out. For example, right now, there's no Survival by me, so there's no need for me to waste my time putting in additional hate for Vengevine/Iona-Retainers/Necrotic Ooze. Same can be said for Countertop; I'm the only player who ever plays it by me. Chalice Stompy, etc... they're all decks that I don't see by me, so there's no need for me to hate against.
There are also plenty of decks that don't make appearances (or place well) on a larger scale. As times change, the need to include specific hate for certain decks diminishes. You remember when Solidarity was the deck to beat? So even if [Deck A] only has a 20% win rate against [Deck B] (an old popular deck) but at least fairly even matchups against the rest of the field, it's very unlikely that 3/8 matches in a larger event will be against [Deck B]; [Deck A] will likely perform fine overall. It's fine to punt certain matches, given that you can compensate for them in the rest of the field.
Rifter needs to change as the metagame changes. I build my sideboard to fit the needs of the area in which I'm playing, and the same thing can be said for my main deck. Obviously I'm not going to waste my time with Aura of Silence if nothing but Goblins is being played. Hell, if the entire metagame is storm combo, I'm probably going to play something with blue. A good player will shift with the metagame; that's how I play this deck.
Here's what I'm reading: "I saw 0-2 and didn't bother to read the match description" Admittedly, I lost that match 0-2, but it was due to lazy plays and tired play mistakes, and had the "I'm already guaranteed in" mentality pushing them. What I didn't post is that the next week, I played the same matchup round 1 and took it 2-0. See, I get lazy when I've got nothing to gain; it's just how I am. It's like, yeah, I can swim a 1:52 at my conference meet, but I've got no real reason to do that in the preliminaries. What matters is that I make it to top8; other than that, it doesn't matter, as long as I come back and compete to my fullest when it really matters (finals for swimming, and top 4 for these tournaments).
Thank you for admitting what I had been assuming since you started posting here. Try reading the full opening post of this primer, or the //www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3141-[Deck">-RW-Rifter-%28White-Based-Control%29"]Rifter thread on MTGTheSource. It'll help answer most of your questions, so you don't have to spam this thread with uneducated questions and outrageous claims
The deck isn't dead, it's just not the most common occurrence, which probably helps explain many of your complaints about this deck. I can't recommend that you try it out yourself, but it seems that you've already made up your mind about it.
And you claim that I did nothing to change the deck for the current metagame? Again, you're proving that you don't bother to read the OP.
I plan of continuing to play this deck, and post notes regarding matchups, etc.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
I'd appreciate some matchups. As I posted before, I'm building it for an aggro heavy/loam heavy meta. And thanks for the Source link to the deck. Somehow in the hours I spent there, I didnt see it.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Casual is what you play with your friends in your basement. Developing Competitive are what people what to pilot in a legacy event.
If you go back and look at your initial post, its pretty harsh. That may be setting off the mod and poppeleseed a little bit. In addition, your level of hostility has gotten higher and you obviously haven't researched this deck well since it actually as old as Goblins.
The mod isn't looking out for you like your parents are. He's looking out for the forum. He is the mod because he showed he support a healthy forum. That's why someone is a mod. Don't throw around fascism if you don't know what it is.
You only get treated as well as you treat people.
Have you tested against Dredge? I'm currently a Dredge player and I'm curious about how well your hate controls them since I've seen 4 Relic to not be enough to shift a game against me.
So how many decks do you have that deal with 100% of every meta, rogue decks included? It seems you came here just to put down popple's deck. At first it was okay, with asking questions, but now, you're just here to troll.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Or you could just stop posting.
Keeping you from blindly bashing someone's deck is biased? Ok.
Fun = constantly trying to derail someone's thread when you explicitly said you wouldn't? Gee, sorry I'm taking that away from you.
Of course. Their's are under managed, desolate, and out of date. Last time I was there, there was a giant flame fest over a Second Sunrise Egg combo deck. Coincidentally, the person(s) starting the flame war acted much in the manner you have.
You said you wouldn't. That means you lied.
I don't see any reports from anyone about his posts in your threads. However, I have quite a few about you posting in his. Also, his warnings/infractions are between him and the staff. Yours are just more 'public' cause you keep stepping over the line.
Seeing how the general poster base isn't calling for my head, and seeing how none of the 2010 Legacy mod apps weren't saying 'I'm applying cause Cabal_chan is terrible and I want to replace him"...yes, I like to think I'm at least moderately respected.
Perhaps I moderate much more actively than prior Legacy mods. However, you seem to be the only person having such a problem with it right now.
Maybe you should learn to moderate yourself. As mentioned above, I think I'm doing a decent job right now.
I can't make you act mature. But I can keep you from spilling immaturity all over..
(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
Thanks to Numotflame96 for avatar and sig!
At first I hurped, then I durped.
LOL, I got banned cause I'm a Pirate, yar the pirate life is for me!