It does but it is rather clunky at 3 CMC. Dead is not horribly mana intensive if you think about it. Even on turn 3, It is B to recur it or Feeder and 2 to recur Sculler. Not only that but it is another Zombie to turn on Gravecrawler
It does but it is rather clunky at 3 CMC. Dead is not horribly mana intensive if you think about it. Even on turn 3, It is B to recur it or Feeder and 2 to recur Sculler. Not only that but it is another Zombie to turn on Gravecrawler
I have to disagree, Dead is actually horrible mana intensive. The turn you cast Dead it eats up BB, if he dies (either by choice or not) its a B to return to your HAND then you need BB to redeploy. If you getting a zombie back you need to have X open to return the selected zombie in your yard, if you have one which basically locks your lands down which in a 19/20 land deck can be a big deal. In addition this takes up turns to recurs things which takes away from advancing the rest of your board. I like dead in some metas, but its really a three drop card to me, and at three I want Heretical Healer, as its easy to turn on, reanimates my donkeys, creates a zombie upon flipping, has an ultimate that is game winning and is disruption, it basically synergizes with the deck perfectly at the same functional mana-cost. The one thing dead has going for it here is that if you have several you can curve him out on two, but if you dropping dead on two I feel that you probably had a weak hand to begin with.
It does but it is rather clunky at 3 CMC. Dead is not horribly mana intensive if you think about it. Even on turn 3, It is B to recur it or Feeder and 2 to recur Sculler. Not only that but it is another Zombie to turn on Gravecrawler
I have to disagree, Dead is actually horrible mana intensive. The turn you cast Dead it eats up BB, if he dies (either by choice or not) its a B to return to your HAND then you need BB to redeploy. If you getting a zombie back you need to have X open to return the selected zombie in your yard, if you have one which basically locks your lands down which in a 19/20 land deck can be a big deal. In addition this takes up turns to recurs things which takes away from advancing the rest of your board. I like dead in some metas, but its really a three drop card to me, and at three I want Heretical Healer, as its easy to turn on, reanimates my donkeys, creates a zombie upon flipping, has an ultimate that is game winning and is disruption, it basically synergizes with the deck perfectly at the same functional mana-cost. The one thing dead has going for it here is that if you have several you can curve him out on two, but if you dropping dead on two I feel that you probably had a weak hand to begin with.
Liliana dies to just as much removal as Dead does and does not protect itself in any way. Dead is an enabler and a faster enabler at that. Liliana by herself does nothing to enable the deck. I tested her out as both a 2 and 3 of when she was released and found her unimpressive. I felt like tapping out turn 3 was a trap and this deck never really wants to get above 4 mana tops. On top of that when she transformed and the plus was relevant, she seemed win more because I really already had the cards I wanted out of my hand by then and the recursion was nice but I already had a much better board than my opponent. I feel like Dead is a turn 3 drop after you have dropped Sculler or bombardment and from there you have tempo unless you get grave hated.
Also @MD: The only benefit I see in Colossus is that you can get into a situation where you can machine gun Gravecrawler with bombardment and net tokens. His p/t is irrelevant and frankly we could do better for reach at 3 CMC than him. Dead I see as a 3-4 of because it protects Sculler and more importantly Feeder to push that last little bit of damage. I haven't had time to test him but I will do so in the near future. You are also not taking into consideration that if you have multiples, it is 2 back into play.
Relentless Dead seems to be a lategame card, and Diregraf colossus will mostly be 3/3 or greater when he hits the board. Great advantage is that both can block and Collossus also works as Bridge from below. Both enable Gravecrawler and with Relentless dead you could get back anything like Carrion Feeder to reset the game maybe.
So my deck wouldn't have a white splash alltogether:
I just posted this on the source but I want to get some more opinions on this idea.
Does anyone think Grim Flayer could have a place in this deck? It wouldn't be too hard to get delerium on line with the bridges, he puts stuff we want in the graveyard and helps with the top of our deck, he can beat down pretty well, and he plays nice with bob for the decks that run him.
@MD.Ghost
Diregraf can be very good in the deck ech zombie cast you make brings another creature down. But at the cost of 3 mana its very mana inefficient. But with gravecrawler it gets very dangerous soon.
Relentless dead as 1 of with entomb is a thing I don't understand. How do you get relentless back if you entomb him. His ability only works if he dies...
The thing with the forest is to be always able to cast decay because it is my only way to remove anithing. Counterbalance online kills the deck so i need decay. Still with a forest you can still use blood moon and decay and with all the fetches you get it if you want.
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
[quote from="Xoddy »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro-tempo/179834-primer-the-walking-dead-zombardment?comment=699"]I like the list a lot, and I will try it out (although not able to before next month :-()
Prized Amalgam i don't think Amalgam is good enough. Sadly his design is way to save (thanks Wizards...), but afterall you don't need blue for it, it can comeback without Mana and you still have Deathrites or Paradise or you try a Grixis Brew with Dack Fayden for endless Looting!
[quote from="Heskatet »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro-tempo/179834-primer-the-walking-dead-zombardment?comment=701"]
Im courious if this could work or work better than the other versions. Bridge from Below is flexslot more or less.
@Build, i would not play the Forest. With only 3 colors i would play a 3rd Swamp and 2 Blood Moons at Side, your opponent would never expect this card at Walking Dead and it kills Shardless, Lands, 12Post and helps vs Eldrazi.
Keep the Bridge if you run Entomb - Bridge is very good if you can respond (someone shots down your Deathrite or you face a non-Terminus Sweeper etc.) with Entomb-Bridge or you simply get Bombardment/Feeder online and spam Zombie Token.
Since i am not sold on Relentless Dead i would only try it as a 1off in your build (you still have 3 Entombs for it!), so you get 2 slots: one is for the 4th Deathrite, this card (while sadly not a Zombie) is a 1 Mana Planeswalker so never play less than 4 here. The 2nd slot would be 1 Rotting Rats because it works with Looting, you can return it (Entomb) to get Crawler back, you can discard Bloodghast, Therapy and more importanly Bridge/Pharaoh with it etc. You can also go over the edge and play Scourge of Nel Toth over Relentless or Colossus.
I actually like the idea of Kommand. It gets rid of artifact gravehate, returns Sculler/Feeder or throws 2 to the dome. It is a good tool box and all for 3 mana. Marauder I am not sold on. So X player sacs a creature? You are paying 2B for Innocent Blood with a 2/2 body. I am good
The deck did well , i won matches against belcher , bug delver , miracles, d&t , burn. I lost against eldrazi , omnitell and another burn.
I just need something good against eldrazi...
I made a list mostly in Mardu colors dropping green as drs is mainly the only reason to splash I have yet to make a sideboard tell me what you guys think would appreciate any feedback you guys had.
Does anyone have plans on bringing this archetype back after DRS ban
I was thinking along a similar vein when I heard DRS was banned, though I was mostly wondering if the deck would want to try out stitcher's supplier as a substitute 1-drop to fill the yard and allow Gravecrawler recursion.
I've only really played the deck in like 3 tournaments so I don't have a lot of insight, but I'm interested in the way you are trying to shift the deck to more of a token sac deck rather than zombie recursion. I do wonder if Grave Pact is going to be too expensive with only 19 lands, while many decks that topped out at 3-drops had 20 lands and DRS ; I guess prioritizing lands on all your faithless lootings might be enough to make up for it.
I hope you will follow up on how it plays when you try it out, and you make me realize contamination will probably be a lot better now that people don't have DRS to make G/W for enchantment removal. I should probably pick some up.
The mana base and some of the cards like bolt are sorta being changed around. I have been fiddling with running blue to run cantrips to add some consistancy to the deck and not rely soly on top deck and only splashing red for bombardment. but I have mostly been centering the lists around hidden stock pile.
This deck is not very good. It is too narrow and does not have answers in format to things that will break it. Spot removal is a killer and it runs out of gas quickly. It also has a very hard time getting around gravehate and has no answer for RIP or Grafdiggers Cage
there are plenty of ways to deal with both of those cards, Wear//tear and a few others, and my list while not truely zombardment relies less on gy as carrion feeder/ gravecrawler
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Doesn't Liliana, Heretical Healer allow access to feeder and sculler in addition to deathrite as well?
I have to disagree, Dead is actually horrible mana intensive. The turn you cast Dead it eats up BB, if he dies (either by choice or not) its a B to return to your HAND then you need BB to redeploy. If you getting a zombie back you need to have X open to return the selected zombie in your yard, if you have one which basically locks your lands down which in a 19/20 land deck can be a big deal. In addition this takes up turns to recurs things which takes away from advancing the rest of your board. I like dead in some metas, but its really a three drop card to me, and at three I want Heretical Healer, as its easy to turn on, reanimates my donkeys, creates a zombie upon flipping, has an ultimate that is game winning and is disruption, it basically synergizes with the deck perfectly at the same functional mana-cost. The one thing dead has going for it here is that if you have several you can curve him out on two, but if you dropping dead on two I feel that you probably had a weak hand to begin with.
Liliana dies to just as much removal as Dead does and does not protect itself in any way. Dead is an enabler and a faster enabler at that. Liliana by herself does nothing to enable the deck. I tested her out as both a 2 and 3 of when she was released and found her unimpressive. I felt like tapping out turn 3 was a trap and this deck never really wants to get above 4 mana tops. On top of that when she transformed and the plus was relevant, she seemed win more because I really already had the cards I wanted out of my hand by then and the recursion was nice but I already had a much better board than my opponent. I feel like Dead is a turn 3 drop after you have dropped Sculler or bombardment and from there you have tempo unless you get grave hated.
Do you really want to go into a 4th color?
Also @MD: The only benefit I see in Colossus is that you can get into a situation where you can machine gun Gravecrawler with bombardment and net tokens. His p/t is irrelevant and frankly we could do better for reach at 3 CMC than him. Dead I see as a 3-4 of because it protects Sculler and more importantly Feeder to push that last little bit of damage. I haven't had time to test him but I will do so in the near future. You are also not taking into consideration that if you have multiples, it is 2 back into play.
So my deck wouldn't have a white splash alltogether:
3x Thoughtseize
3x Deathrite Shaman
4x Gravecrawler
4x Bloodghast
4x Carrion Feeder
2x Diregraf Collossus
3x Relentless Dead
2x Goblin Bombardment
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Entomb
1x Darkblast
4x Faithless Looting
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1x Vengeful Pharaoh
1x Bridge from Below
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Badlands
2x Bayou
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Undiscovered Paradise
Im courious if this could work or work better than the other versions. Bridge from Below is flexslot more or less.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Does anyone think Grim Flayer could have a place in this deck? It wouldn't be too hard to get delerium on line with the bridges, he puts stuff we want in the graveyard and helps with the top of our deck, he can beat down pretty well, and he plays nice with bob for the decks that run him.
Diregraf can be very good in the deck ech zombie cast you make brings another creature down. But at the cost of 3 mana its very mana inefficient. But with gravecrawler it gets very dangerous soon.
Relentless dead as 1 of with entomb is a thing I don't understand. How do you get relentless back if you entomb him. His ability only works if he dies...
The thing with the forest is to be always able to cast decay because it is my only way to remove anithing. Counterbalance online kills the deck so i need decay. Still with a forest you can still use blood moon and decay and with all the fetches you get it if you want.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I actually like the idea of Kommand. It gets rid of artifact gravehate, returns Sculler/Feeder or throws 2 to the dome. It is a good tool box and all for 3 mana. Marauder I am not sold on. So X player sacs a creature? You are paying 2B for Innocent Blood with a 2/2 body. I am good
Last weekend i tried out a different list without bloodghast in a tournament here in brazil, there was 30 players.
21 lands
8 fetch lands
3 badlands
2 scrubland
2 cavern of souls
4 swamp
1 unholy grotto
1 bayou
24 creatures
3 bob
3 carrion feeder
4 gravecrawler
4 relentless dead
4 tidehollow sculler
4 deathrite shaman
2 fleshbag marauder
15 Other spells
3 faithless looting
3 swords to plowshares
3 cabal therapy
3 thoughtseize
3 goblin bombardment
1 kolaghan's command
sb
2 surgical extraction
2 abrupt decay
2 krosan grip
2 thalia
2 pitting needle
1 null rod
1 bitterblossom
1 deathmark
1 contamination
1 ethersworn canonist
The deck did well , i won matches against belcher , bug delver , miracles, d&t , burn. I lost against eldrazi , omnitell and another burn.
I just need something good against eldrazi...
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Blood Artist
4 Bloodghast
2 Dark Confidant
2 Bitterblossom
1 Contamination
1 Goblin Bombardment
2 Grave Pact
4 Hidden Stockpile
1 Terminate
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plateau
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Verdant Catacombs
I was thinking along a similar vein when I heard DRS was banned, though I was mostly wondering if the deck would want to try out stitcher's supplier as a substitute 1-drop to fill the yard and allow Gravecrawler recursion.
I've only really played the deck in like 3 tournaments so I don't have a lot of insight, but I'm interested in the way you are trying to shift the deck to more of a token sac deck rather than zombie recursion. I do wonder if Grave Pact is going to be too expensive with only 19 lands, while many decks that topped out at 3-drops had 20 lands and DRS ; I guess prioritizing lands on all your faithless lootings might be enough to make up for it.
I hope you will follow up on how it plays when you try it out, and you make me realize contamination will probably be a lot better now that people don't have DRS to make G/W for enchantment removal. I should probably pick some up.