because humility is a character defining ability, its affect hits before proctor can do anything, simply because proctor must have resolved and been on the field in order to try and activate his ability. i think i answered this right...
I'm not sure if this is right, but creatures that come into play after Humility has entered the battlefield have no abilities. This means creatures that have "When this creature..." (Stern Proctor) will lose that ability from Humility as they enter the battlefield, but creatures with "As this creature..." (Meddlin' Mage) still allow you to name a card.
I'm not sure if this is right, but creatures that come into play after Humility has entered the battlefield have no abilities. This means creatures that have "When this creature..." (Stern Proctor) will lose that ability from Humility as they enter the battlefield, but creatures with "As this creature..." (Meddlin' Mage) still allow you to name a card.
This is correct, triggered abilities on "Comes into play" effects don't work with Humility. There is no rules-legitimate way for a creature to get rid of Humility. I suggest a Ray of Revelation main if it's that big of a deal in your meta. As a 1-of.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
Ok, so does the Ooze combo make proctor useless then? Cause it now only has a use against grave hate after sideboard. Or does it have more uses?
Usually you fetch Stern Proctor with Worldly Tutor or Elamdari's Call to protect yourself against hate. Damping Matrix and Pithing Needle are two examples I can readily think of. Thorn of Amethyst would also be unpleasant.
Yeah, I know that. But they only have that hate after sideboarding. So I'm thinking about removing it from main and putting it in sideboard. The only pre-sideboard artifact or enchantment threat I could think of is countertop.
Solitary Confinement and Ground Seal are two cards you want to be able to answer in case you don't have permission.
Is adding stiflenought to the deck cause any issues in how it plays for good or bad?
As I look at what few lists that do/did run it, I'm thinking there might be some issues of combos conflicting space wise, but nothing serious jumps out at me. (But I can't shake the feeling i'm over looking something.)
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Is adding stiflenought to the deck cause any issues in how it plays for good or bad?
As I look at what few lists that do/did run it, I'm thinking there might be some issues of combos conflicting space wise, but nothing serious jumps out at me. (But I can't shake the feeling i'm over looking something.)
well, it would certainly limit the space in the deck. you would probably end up removing cantrips and searches, which would make the deck much slower. any protection you would have would want to be kept, but the deck would be so much less consistent and much easier to disrupt. i doubt it would work, but you can try it if you want.
'With the cards that are out there right now it is flavorly more common to know a spell that DESTROYS AN ENTIRE PLANE OF EXISTANCE than one that summons a snake that chills near lotus flowers...'
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
and I too love how it avoids the combat step. Frickin holy day could ruin your day... (or anything simmilar)
QUESTION: could you then throw a cursecatcher to force spike any counters away? or would the ooze's ability not work because it isnt cursecatcher???
so explain to me how it works?.. cause if you dread return the Ooze the dragons breath will not trigger since he is not a 6 cmc creature, or am i missing something?
so the only avaliable way of giving him haste that i see is either Anger or the discard a card route posted before.
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Then if you're using Anger, you need Volcanic island on the table, and you become even more vulnerable to wasteland, thus dropping haste from your guys. So it should be strike force what's best out. But Discarding card at random could cause you to lose your protection from removal on critical moment.
if your ooze is on the field you will no longer need any protection. ooze will go off at instant speed, so swords to plowshares and anything similar is useless. any counterspells etc. would have been used on your nomads en kor and cephalid illusionist anyways. if ooze hits, they have nothing and anything in your hand is useless.
if your ooze is on the field you will no longer need any protection. ooze will go off at instant speed, so swords to plowshares and anything similar is useless. any counterspells etc. would have been used on your nomads en kor and cephalid illusionist anyways. if ooze hits, they have nothing and anything in your hand is useless.
Having not played the deck yet, by the time Ooze would hit, would you even have any cards in hand after getting your combo pieces together and protecting it, etc.?
Then if you're using Anger, you need Volcanic island on the table, and you become even more vulnerable to wasteland, thus dropping haste from your guys. So it should be strike force what's best out. But Discarding card at random could cause you to lose your protection from removal on critical moment.
No, you always hit with Therapy first to check their hand. Its the same as Dredge; you see if they can remove Iona before you put it into play. You should never walk into removal or permission since you should be able to cast Therapy from your yard. Even if they do attempt to remove your Ooze, you can pitch another card to give it haste again.
You only need 2 cards in the combo, so normally, you would still have 2-3 cards left in the best case. If you have no cards consistently, then this whole concept is futile.
maybe slipping in a deep analysis would be of some benefit, it would address the idea of not having enough cards in hand when trying to combo.
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maybe slipping in a deep analysis would be of some benefit, it would address the idea of not having enough cards in hand when trying to combo.
No i dont think so.. i mean if you put just 1 the chances of you having it on the bottom of the library are slim but still .. thus having you not to be able to play it, also you most likely wont have mana to play it cuse yoou will want to play orims chant or you played the en kor or cephallid.. and the 3 damage may be bad for us..
I still think Anger is the best choice but that forces us to play with the fetchland/dual route = EXPENSIVE
The thing is that i really dont believe we NEED to get rid of the attack phase, i mean yeah a fog can ☺☺☺☺ us up but who plays that? and havent we already pack orims chant, cabal therapy, force of will against all that?
I think we should be more concerned in dealing with Stax since a chalice of the void or a trinisphere ☺☺☺☺s us a lot harder..
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true true, yeah I forgot about dragon's breath having the 6cc thingy... I would just rather use the pestermite combo then. Im thinking about packing three-four therapy's in case they have multipul fow/daze etc... and FoW shouldnt even be in here! Thats totally not budget! I'm ok with the orim's chant//spell pierce//daze thing and shocklands... I just wouldnt call having a 200$ playset of FoW in a deck budget
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'With the cards that are out there right now it is flavorly more common to know a spell that DESTROYS AN ENTIRE PLANE OF EXISTANCE than one that summons a snake that chills near lotus flowers...'
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
true true, yeah I forgot about dragon's breath having the 6cc thingy... I would just rather use the pestermite combo then. Im thinking about packing three-four therapy's in case they have multipul fow/daze etc... and FoW shouldnt even be in here! Thats totally not budget! I'm ok with the orim's chant//spell pierce//daze thing and shocklands... I just wouldnt call having a 200$ playset of FoW in a deck budget
No one said this was a budget deck. This isn't the casual forum. FoW provides extra protection and allows you remove obnoxious cards like Trinisphere, Chalice, Moat and others.
well, 2 decks listed are budget decks anyways... not having fow or duals in them. and who said budget= non-competitive? thats the whole reason I like CB, its not sucky for a cheap build and it doesnt auto lose to hate like dredge. pact is almost better than fow in this deck imo. as you dont have to pitch to it; just go off on your combo and win
'With the cards that are out there right now it is flavorly more common to know a spell that DESTROYS AN ENTIRE PLANE OF EXISTANCE than one that summons a snake that chills near lotus flowers...'
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
No i dont think so.. i mean if you put just 1 the chances of you having it on the bottom of the library are slim but still .. thus having you not to be able to play it, also you most likely wont have mana to play it cuse yoou will want to play orims chant or you played the en kor or cephallid.. and the 3 damage may be bad for us..
I still think Anger is the best choice but that forces us to play with the fetchland/dual route = EXPENSIVE
The thing is that i really dont believe we NEED to get rid of the attack phase, i mean yeah a fog can ☺☺☺☺ us up but who plays that? and havent we already pack orims chant, cabal therapy, force of will against all that?
I think we should be more concerned in dealing with Stax since a chalice of the void or a trinisphere ☺☺☺☺s us a lot harder..
using a combo like the ooze one allows us to do more than just skip the combat phase, it allows the combo to go off at instant speed, which eliminates swords to plowshares and path to exile as a threat. beyond that, it also eliminates moat, peacekeeper and the like from halting us as well. fog is a non-issue. things like trini and chalice are easily bounced by proctor and echoing truth, thats why they are mainboard.
using a combo like the ooze one allows us to do more than just skip the combat phase, it allows the combo to go off at instant speed, which eliminates swords to plowshares and path to exile as a threat. beyond that, it also eliminates moat, peacekeeper and the like from halting us as well. fog is a non-issue. things like trini and chalice are easily bounced by proctor and echoing truth, thats why they are mainboard.
Yeah dont get me wrong, instant speed kill is awesome but i just dont think it is really necessary, since a swords, path, moat are really why orims chant or FOw or Pact are for unless im missing something, a ray of revelation would also help, an ancient grudge also but the thing here is that a turn one 1cmc chalice ☺☺☺☺s us cause we cant play worldly tutor, nomads en kor, cabal therapy, aether vial or even brainstorm if we run it, and trinisphere slows us a lot, we can still play but paying 3 mana for a lotus petal or chrome mox, or a tutor or a therapy or dread return can give any deck all the time to beat us.
So i would worry more about that, so far i think kiki-hussar and or ghoul-lord are the ways to go, but packing 4 therapies, orimschant(silence) and pact, fow, daze or something else.
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Yeah dont get me wrong, instant speed kill is awesome but i just dont think it is really necessary, since a swords, path, moat are really why orims chant or FOw or Pact are for unless im missing something, a ray of revelation would also help, an ancient grudge also but the thing here is that a turn one 1cmc chalice ☺☺☺☺s us cause we cant play worldly tutor, nomads en kor, cabal therapy, aether vial or even brainstorm if we run it, and trinisphere slows us a lot, we can still play but paying 3 mana for a lotus petal or chrome mox, or a tutor or a therapy or dread return can give any deck all the time to beat us.
So i would worry more about that, so far i think kiki-hussar and or ghoul-lord are the ways to go, but packing 4 therapies, orimschant(silence) and pact, fow, daze or something else.
i can see what you are saying however for the most part i think we can all agree that staxx isnt even a common enough deck for us to worry about it this much. Hell, ive only EVER seen 1 staxx actually played in a tournament ive been to, and it was my brothers.
beyond that, ancient grudge would not work on a 1 cmc chalice because we would be playing it for 1 green, unless you meant that we would draw into it and then reuse it.
also, i think 4 therapy is a bit much. i already have a hard time fitting things into the deck, finding 2 more slots for something that really only needs the 2 it already has, or MAYBE 3, is kinda iffy.
Well ancient grudge even though you will be paying 1 green to cast it (flashback cost) it has a converted mana cost of 2. so multiples in sb would be very versatile.
And i agree that stax is not a common deck i was just saying that i would consider worryng more about it than changing the kill package to make it at instant speed.
By the way i wouldnt really run Fow here, the pact seems better and i would at least use 3 therapies, cause if i draw one having that extra card discarded has given me so much games as in.
Cabal naming fow.. if nothing is there ok i see what i need to discard wih the flashback later, if they have fow or swords or whatever yippieee..
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don't forget ghostly prison or propoganda... (for those against using attack phase.)
but chalice 1 isn't that what a stern proctor is for game 1?
eldamiris call or living wish (2cc) tutors that answer up for when your building to go off.
wait to build up mana to drop proctor then hopefully combo out same turn. other wise wait to drop proctor. (if available cabal therapy it away if you can).
------------------------------
Correct me if i'm wrong about the whole instant speed situation that people with ooze are describing.....
the advantage i'm seeing is ooze is on the table and you have cards available to discard to give it haste, do you just wait for them to try and add a spell to the stack, discard giving ooze haste above there play on the stack then follow that up with comboing out?
or are you describing something else by saying instant speed?
just trying to make sure i'm on the same page.
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don't forget ghostly prison or propoganda... (for those against using attack phase.)
but chalice 1 isn't that what a stern proctor is for game 1?
eldamiris call or living wish (2cc) tutors that answer up for when your building to go off.
wait to build up mana to drop proctor then hopefully combo out same turn. other wise wait to drop proctor. (if available cabal therapy it away if you can).
------------------------------
Correct me if i'm wrong about the whole instant speed situation that people with ooze are describing.....
the advantage i'm seeing is ooze is on the table and you have cards available to discard to give it haste, do you just wait for them to try and add a spell to the stack, discard giving ooze haste above there play on the stack then follow that up with comboing out?
or are you describing something else by saying instant speed?
just trying to make sure i'm on the same page.
as far as the instant speed stuff goes, basically what we are saying is that after you get ooze on the field they cannot prevent you from winning by using swords or something similar simply because if they target ooze you respond to the targeting by continuing to combo out.
thats where I'm coming from! FoW<pact in this situation b/c the only time you need to use it is when you a re about to when.
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'With the cards that are out there right now it is flavorly more common to know a spell that DESTROYS AN ENTIRE PLANE OF EXISTANCE than one that summons a snake that chills near lotus flowers...'
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
thats where I'm coming from! FoW<pact in this situation b/c the only time you need to use it is when you a re about to when.
my view on the pact vs FoW argument.
FoW generates card disadvantage and forces you to carry more blue spells in your deck than you may want, however! FoW also allows you to survive potentially game ending plays by your opponent. sure, the main reason we play pact or FoW is to protect OUR combo, however, FoW allows us to not only protect our combo, but keep our opponent from doing anything potentially game ending, like cheating progenitus into play and then chump blocking ghoul, or casting charbelcher on turn 1 and killing us.
its all based on preference, pact requires less conditions to play, makes room in the deck and serves the same purpose as FoW
FoW can protect us from lethal plays as well as protect our combo.
i play pact because i cant afford force of will and i like not having card advantage. but i can tell you there are certainly situations in which having FoW instead of pact would have been nice.
I'm not sure if this is right, but creatures that come into play after Humility has entered the battlefield have no abilities. This means creatures that have "When this creature..." (Stern Proctor) will lose that ability from Humility as they enter the battlefield, but creatures with "As this creature..." (Meddlin' Mage) still allow you to name a card.
This is correct, triggered abilities on "Comes into play" effects don't work with Humility. There is no rules-legitimate way for a creature to get rid of Humility. I suggest a Ray of Revelation main if it's that big of a deal in your meta. As a 1-of.
Usually you fetch Stern Proctor with Worldly Tutor or Elamdari's Call to protect yourself against hate. Damping Matrix and Pithing Needle are two examples I can readily think of. Thorn of Amethyst would also be unpleasant.
Solitary Confinement and Ground Seal are two cards you want to be able to answer in case you don't have permission.
As I look at what few lists that do/did run it, I'm thinking there might be some issues of combos conflicting space wise, but nothing serious jumps out at me. (But I can't shake the feeling i'm over looking something.)
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well, it would certainly limit the space in the deck. you would probably end up removing cantrips and searches, which would make the deck much slower. any protection you would have would want to be kept, but the deck would be so much less consistent and much easier to disrupt. i doubt it would work, but you can try it if you want.
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1x Kiki Jiki
1x Necrotic Ooze
1X Mogg Fanatic
1x Dragonbreath
...there, necro//haste issue solved, voila!
and I too love how it avoids the combat step. Frickin holy day could ruin your day... (or anything simmilar)
QUESTION: could you then throw a cursecatcher to force spike any counters away? or would the ooze's ability not work because it isnt cursecatcher???
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
and i didn't even do that on purpose...weird huh?
so explain to me how it works?.. cause if you dread return the Ooze the dragons breath will not trigger since he is not a 6 cmc creature, or am i missing something?
so the only avaliable way of giving him haste that i see is either Anger or the discard a card route posted before.
currently playing
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Anger or Strike Force are the best outs.
if your ooze is on the field you will no longer need any protection. ooze will go off at instant speed, so swords to plowshares and anything similar is useless. any counterspells etc. would have been used on your nomads en kor and cephalid illusionist anyways. if ooze hits, they have nothing and anything in your hand is useless.
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Having not played the deck yet, by the time Ooze would hit, would you even have any cards in hand after getting your combo pieces together and protecting it, etc.?
No, you always hit with Therapy first to check their hand. Its the same as Dredge; you see if they can remove Iona before you put it into play. You should never walk into removal or permission since you should be able to cast Therapy from your yard. Even if they do attempt to remove your Ooze, you can pitch another card to give it haste again.
You only need 2 cards in the combo, so normally, you would still have 2-3 cards left in the best case. If you have no cards consistently, then this whole concept is futile.
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No i dont think so.. i mean if you put just 1 the chances of you having it on the bottom of the library are slim but still .. thus having you not to be able to play it, also you most likely wont have mana to play it cuse yoou will want to play orims chant or you played the en kor or cephallid.. and the 3 damage may be bad for us..
I still think Anger is the best choice but that forces us to play with the fetchland/dual route = EXPENSIVE
The thing is that i really dont believe we NEED to get rid of the attack phase, i mean yeah a fog can ☺☺☺☺ us up but who plays that? and havent we already pack orims chant, cabal therapy, force of will against all that?
I think we should be more concerned in dealing with Stax since a chalice of the void or a trinisphere ☺☺☺☺s us a lot harder..
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
and i didn't even do that on purpose...weird huh?
No one said this was a budget deck. This isn't the casual forum. FoW provides extra protection and allows you remove obnoxious cards like Trinisphere, Chalice, Moat and others.
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
and i didn't even do that on purpose...weird huh?
using a combo like the ooze one allows us to do more than just skip the combat phase, it allows the combo to go off at instant speed, which eliminates swords to plowshares and path to exile as a threat. beyond that, it also eliminates moat, peacekeeper and the like from halting us as well. fog is a non-issue. things like trini and chalice are easily bounced by proctor and echoing truth, thats why they are mainboard.
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Yeah dont get me wrong, instant speed kill is awesome but i just dont think it is really necessary, since a swords, path, moat are really why orims chant or FOw or Pact are for unless im missing something, a ray of revelation would also help, an ancient grudge also but the thing here is that a turn one 1cmc chalice ☺☺☺☺s us cause we cant play worldly tutor, nomads en kor, cabal therapy, aether vial or even brainstorm if we run it, and trinisphere slows us a lot, we can still play but paying 3 mana for a lotus petal or chrome mox, or a tutor or a therapy or dread return can give any deck all the time to beat us.
So i would worry more about that, so far i think kiki-hussar and or ghoul-lord are the ways to go, but packing 4 therapies, orimschant(silence) and pact, fow, daze or something else.
currently playing
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i can see what you are saying however for the most part i think we can all agree that staxx isnt even a common enough deck for us to worry about it this much. Hell, ive only EVER seen 1 staxx actually played in a tournament ive been to, and it was my brothers.
beyond that, ancient grudge would not work on a 1 cmc chalice because we would be playing it for 1 green, unless you meant that we would draw into it and then reuse it.
also, i think 4 therapy is a bit much. i already have a hard time fitting things into the deck, finding 2 more slots for something that really only needs the 2 it already has, or MAYBE 3, is kinda iffy.
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And i agree that stax is not a common deck i was just saying that i would consider worryng more about it than changing the kill package to make it at instant speed.
By the way i wouldnt really run Fow here, the pact seems better and i would at least use 3 therapies, cause if i draw one having that extra card discarded has given me so much games as in.
Cabal naming fow.. if nothing is there ok i see what i need to discard wih the flashback later, if they have fow or swords or whatever yippieee..
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
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but chalice 1 isn't that what a stern proctor is for game 1?
eldamiris call or living wish (2cc) tutors that answer up for when your building to go off.
wait to build up mana to drop proctor then hopefully combo out same turn. other wise wait to drop proctor. (if available cabal therapy it away if you can).
------------------------------
Correct me if i'm wrong about the whole instant speed situation that people with ooze are describing.....
the advantage i'm seeing is ooze is on the table and you have cards available to discard to give it haste, do you just wait for them to try and add a spell to the stack, discard giving ooze haste above there play on the stack then follow that up with comboing out?
or are you describing something else by saying instant speed?
just trying to make sure i'm on the same page.
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as far as the instant speed stuff goes, basically what we are saying is that after you get ooze on the field they cannot prevent you from winning by using swords or something similar simply because if they target ooze you respond to the targeting by continuing to combo out.
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thats where I'm coming from! FoW<pact in this situation b/c the only time you need to use it is when you a re about to when.
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
and i didn't even do that on purpose...weird huh?
my view on the pact vs FoW argument.
FoW generates card disadvantage and forces you to carry more blue spells in your deck than you may want, however! FoW also allows you to survive potentially game ending plays by your opponent. sure, the main reason we play pact or FoW is to protect OUR combo, however, FoW allows us to not only protect our combo, but keep our opponent from doing anything potentially game ending, like cheating progenitus into play and then chump blocking ghoul, or casting charbelcher on turn 1 and killing us.
its all based on preference, pact requires less conditions to play, makes room in the deck and serves the same purpose as FoW
FoW can protect us from lethal plays as well as protect our combo.
i play pact because i cant afford force of will and i like not having card advantage. but i can tell you there are certainly situations in which having FoW instead of pact would have been nice.
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