Thinking of something not listed here? I'm open to any and all such suggestions except: Worldgorger Dragon- I'm not interested in these crazy shenanigans Akroma, Angel of Wrath or Spirit of the Night- I don't run reanimate so the only card I could bring these back with in my deck is exhume (1/3 of my reanimation spells)
Any combination of big number meat in hopes of fueling one fat Sutured Ghoul- I would rather have fun and be flexible
If you could give dragons haste somehow, then nichol bolas would be my choice number one. He's also cheap to acquire with the time spiral time shifted reprint. Hitting with him even once is a ton of damage and a wrecked hand for the opponent. However, the only cheap way I know to do it in mono black is corpse dance or shallow grave.
Been there done that Obould, that is how I have gotten this list to where I have. It's not so much that I'm looking for creatures that I've missed (though suggestions are always welcome), but with the list I've presented and 8 slots to fill... how would you fill them?
Nicol Bolas would be fantastic with haste, but would I be sacrificing too much consistency if I had to add Anger, Tainted Peak, and Rocky Tar Pit just to ensure it all happens? Would it all be worth it considering my other fatties?
If you can splash blue mana, I think the classic Deep Spawn (6/6 trample, bins more fatties for you, shroud) might actually be worth it. Or if you can access green mana, Silvos might be. With red mana, Bloodfire Colossus is an amazing reusable board wipe. So it depends on whether you want a monoblack manabase or may have access to other colors too.
In a monoblack list (no splash mana) without Reanimate (i.e. where losing life to high casting cost doesn't matter, but pro-black and power does), my top 8 would be:
Avatar gets the nod over Visara because +1 power means a faster clock, especially with Animate Dead shrinking things. I think the main reason Visara saw play over Avatar was being able to lose 2 less life to Reanimate to get a functionally similar creature. Otherwise, both have evasion and kill things.
Brimstone is Akroma/Spirit of the Night without the pro-black, or at least the closest thing. You usually want 1 Akroma-type hasty creature so you can go into race mode if you really need to.
Reanimate is only good with post 8th edition beasts in my opinion. The only creature of note with Lifelink is Phantom Nishoba, with any other creature I think it is simply too much life to forfeit just to save 1 mana. If only they had made Griselbrand a little sooner... :-(
No splashing, even for Deep Spawn, that's part of the fun with this challenge!
Here is an update of my current top 8: Avatar of Hope- an invaluable blocker against multiple creatures (a situation I often find myself in) Multani, Maro-Sorcerer- Pure power, especially in the early game, plus he can't be targeted Phantom Nishoba- Read the text, speaks for itself Reya Dawnbringer- A must for an old school reanimator in my opinion Symbiotic Wurm- Go ahead and try to remove this beast! Thorn Elemental- 7 points of guaranteed damage, yes please Verdant Force- A great answer to Pacifism Visara the Dreadful- I still prefer her to Avatar of Woe, I felt it was important to have at least 3 flyers
I used to play Reanimator quite often before 8th was printed, and I always packed 4 Reanimate. I believe even when the deck was tier 1 in Extended (2002-ish, pre-Modern era), the deck packed 4 Reanimate (and 4 Vampiric Tutor! lots of life loss!). This was way before Griselbrand or anything like it. And even in the modern era but years before Griselbrand was printed, when Reanimator was a top deck in Legacy (Mystical Tutor was legal), it rolled with 4 Reanimate.
The thing is, it's not just saving 1 mana. It's often saving 1 turn. 1 extra turn with a dangerous fatty or utility creature is a big deal. Or getting to both Reanimate AND Duress them first is a big deal. Animate Dead is not only slower but gives -1 power slowing down your clock, opens up additional vulnerability to enchantment removal (even a Shroud creature can die to spot removal if they just remove the Animate Dead!), and stops you from playing pro-black guys like Akroma (who is an easy top 8 otherwise).
I get that people, particularly casual players, don't like the idea of losing life. And especially if you're just playing kitchen table magic, there may not be a rush to "go off" quickly so paying an extra 1 and waiting a turn to save some life is OK. Not liking it is fine. But the idea that Reanimate was bad before Griselbrand is proven wrong by tons of top-tier tournament-winning Reanimator decks of the past...
Flyers are good. And Visara is good in general. I just hate slapping Animate Dead on Visara. A 4/5 is a 5-turn clock. A 5/5 Avatar of Woe is at least a 4-turn clock, less awful. Waiting 5 turns after playing a 2cc reanimate spell? Aggro decks can ignore the flyer and outrace you on the ground. At that point you're basically forced to use Visara for the board control ability and wait to bin another fatty before actually attacking.
That's why I went with Brimstone Dragon. 3rd flyer, and with haste it makes a nice clock.
I'll admit that I am primarily a kitchen table player, but I would like the deck to be the best that it can be (within my parameters) all the same. Having said that, why is Animate Dead worse than Necromancy in your opinion? If you are going to lecture on the value of a 1 mana cost difference for more than 1/3 of my life total, why is it worse to lose -1/0 at the expense of 1 extra mana? Or are you proposing that I only run 4x Exhume and 4x Reanimate for reanimation?
8 Reanimator spells is probably enough. Even just 4 gives you a pretty good chance of seeing one in your opening hand and most of the time, you don't want more than two. Since the idea is "ultra fast fatty" you probably don't want to see too many of them over the course of a game.
UPDATE:
These are the 8 best pre 8th edition creatures that I have found, 4 from the ground and 4 from the sky. Avatar of Hope- an invaluable blocker against multiple creatures (a situation I often find myself in) Avatar of Woe- A creature assassin with another form of evasion Multani, Maro-Sorcerer- Pure power, especially in the early game, plus he can't be targeted Phantom Nishoba- Read the text, speaks for itself Reya Dawnbringer- A must for an old school reanimator in my opinion Rorix Bladewing- A hasty threat from the sky, not limited by black reanimation enchantments like Akroma, Angel of Wrath or Spirit of the Night Symbiotic Wurm- Go ahead and try to remove this beast! Thorn Elemental- 7 points of guaranteed damage, yes please!
I'll admit that I am primarily a kitchen table player, but I would like the deck to be the best that it can be (within my parameters) all the same. Having said that, why is Animate Dead worse than Necromancy in your opinion? If you are going to lecture on the value of a 1 mana cost difference for more than 1/3 of my life total, why is it worse to lose -1/0 at the expense of 1 extra mana? Or are you proposing that I only run 4x Exhume and 4x Reanimate for reanimation?
Who said anything about Necromancy?
I'm saying Animate Dead is worse than Reanimate, not that it is worse than Necromancy.
Oh, I just saw the linked thread. You're running 12 reanimation spells with 4 Necromancy? That's too many. Most lists run just 8, although they also have cantrips. Without cantrips, it doesn't hurt to have redundancy, but you don't need more than 10 effects.
e.g. 4 Reanimate + 4 Exhume + 2 Animate Dead, or 4 Exhume + 3 Reanimate + 3 Animate Dead.
If only running 8, people usually go 4 Reanimate + 4 Exhume unless there is some specific reason why your deck needs a different configuration (e.g. Worldgorger Dragon or need for instant-speed stuff like Shallow Grave)
I don't love Animate Dead, but you are right in that the -1 power is better than paying the extra mana cost for Necromancy. Competitive decks have not run Necromancy since better options were printed (or unless they're going Hulk combo).
The lack of cantrips is an obstacle that I'm trying to compensate for with extra reanimation spells and my 4 tutors. Instead of 4 Necromancy I'm going to try 1 Reanimate 1 Necromancy 1 Victimize and 1 Jet Medallion. Best of all, this will shift my balance from 4 sorceries to 8 enchantments to 6 sorceries to 5 enchantments and thus give me reasonable cause to swap Rorix Bladewing for the creature everyone is clamoring for with this deck... Akroma, Angel of Wrath!
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http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/691588-budget-old-school-legacy-reanimator-mono-black
Long story short, I want to run 8 creatures in my reanimator. Please let me know the best PRE 8th Edition creatures to run in my deck.
Here is a list of the contenders I have gathered so far:
Avatar of Hope
Avatar of Might
Avatar of Woe
Aven Fateshaper
Crater Hellion
Crosis, the Purger
Dragon Mage
Fungal Shambler
hypnox
Laquatus's Champion
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Penumbra Wurm
Petradon
Phantom Nishoba
Reya Dawnbringer
Rorix Bladewing
Scion of Darkness
Sutured Ghoul
Symbiotic Wurm
Thorn Elemental
Verdant Force
Visara the Dreadful
Volrath the Fallen
Thinking of something not listed here? I'm open to any and all such suggestions except:
Worldgorger Dragon- I'm not interested in these crazy shenanigans
Akroma, Angel of Wrath or Spirit of the Night- I don't run reanimate so the only card I could bring these back with in my deck is exhume (1/3 of my reanimation spells)
Any combination of big number meat in hopes of fueling one fat Sutured Ghoul- I would rather have fun and be flexible
Who's in your top 8?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Nicol Bolas would be fantastic with haste, but would I be sacrificing too much consistency if I had to add Anger, Tainted Peak, and Rocky Tar Pit just to ensure it all happens? Would it all be worth it considering my other fatties?
Visara the dreadful
Akroma, angel of wrath
Multani, maro sorceror
Reya dawnbringer
Thats the 8 I would run. Verdant force is just such a beating
Commander decks
Nekusar, Trostani, Horde of notions, Merieke ri beret, Talruum, Sidesi, Shattergang brothers, Shirei, Deretti, Azusa, Sigurda, Geist of st. Traft, Bw enchantments[/spoiler]
-And others under construction
Here is my current top 8:
Crosis, the Purger
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Penumbra Wurm
Phantom Nishoba
Reya Dawnbringer
Symbiotic Wurm
Verdant Force
Visara the Dreadful
5 control creatures and 3 very useful flyers...
Other creatures to consider:
If you can splash blue mana, I think the classic Deep Spawn (6/6 trample, bins more fatties for you, shroud) might actually be worth it. Or if you can access green mana, Silvos might be. With red mana, Bloodfire Colossus is an amazing reusable board wipe. So it depends on whether you want a monoblack manabase or may have access to other colors too.
In a monoblack list (no splash mana) without Reanimate (i.e. where losing life to high casting cost doesn't matter, but pro-black and power does), my top 8 would be:
Avatar gets the nod over Visara because +1 power means a faster clock, especially with Animate Dead shrinking things. I think the main reason Visara saw play over Avatar was being able to lose 2 less life to Reanimate to get a functionally similar creature. Otherwise, both have evasion and kill things.
Brimstone is Akroma/Spirit of the Night without the pro-black, or at least the closest thing. You usually want 1 Akroma-type hasty creature so you can go into race mode if you really need to.
No splashing, even for Deep Spawn, that's part of the fun with this challenge!
Here is an update of my current top 8:
Avatar of Hope- an invaluable blocker against multiple creatures (a situation I often find myself in)
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer- Pure power, especially in the early game, plus he can't be targeted
Phantom Nishoba- Read the text, speaks for itself
Reya Dawnbringer- A must for an old school reanimator in my opinion
Symbiotic Wurm- Go ahead and try to remove this beast!
Thorn Elemental- 7 points of guaranteed damage, yes please
Verdant Force- A great answer to Pacifism
Visara the Dreadful- I still prefer her to Avatar of Woe, I felt it was important to have at least 3 flyers
The thing is, it's not just saving 1 mana. It's often saving 1 turn. 1 extra turn with a dangerous fatty or utility creature is a big deal. Or getting to both Reanimate AND Duress them first is a big deal. Animate Dead is not only slower but gives -1 power slowing down your clock, opens up additional vulnerability to enchantment removal (even a Shroud creature can die to spot removal if they just remove the Animate Dead!), and stops you from playing pro-black guys like Akroma (who is an easy top 8 otherwise).
I get that people, particularly casual players, don't like the idea of losing life. And especially if you're just playing kitchen table magic, there may not be a rush to "go off" quickly so paying an extra 1 and waiting a turn to save some life is OK. Not liking it is fine. But the idea that Reanimate was bad before Griselbrand is proven wrong by tons of top-tier tournament-winning Reanimator decks of the past...
Flyers are good. And Visara is good in general. I just hate slapping Animate Dead on Visara. A 4/5 is a 5-turn clock. A 5/5 Avatar of Woe is at least a 4-turn clock, less awful. Waiting 5 turns after playing a 2cc reanimate spell? Aggro decks can ignore the flyer and outrace you on the ground. At that point you're basically forced to use Visara for the board control ability and wait to bin another fatty before actually attacking.
That's why I went with Brimstone Dragon. 3rd flyer, and with haste it makes a nice clock.
I'll admit that I am primarily a kitchen table player, but I would like the deck to be the best that it can be (within my parameters) all the same. Having said that, why is Animate Dead worse than Necromancy in your opinion? If you are going to lecture on the value of a 1 mana cost difference for more than 1/3 of my life total, why is it worse to lose -1/0 at the expense of 1 extra mana? Or are you proposing that I only run 4x Exhume and 4x Reanimate for reanimation?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
These are the 8 best pre 8th edition creatures that I have found, 4 from the ground and 4 from the sky.
Avatar of Hope- an invaluable blocker against multiple creatures (a situation I often find myself in)
Avatar of Woe- A creature assassin with another form of evasion
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer- Pure power, especially in the early game, plus he can't be targeted
Phantom Nishoba- Read the text, speaks for itself
Reya Dawnbringer- A must for an old school reanimator in my opinion
Rorix Bladewing- A hasty threat from the sky, not limited by black reanimation enchantments like Akroma, Angel of Wrath or Spirit of the Night
Symbiotic Wurm- Go ahead and try to remove this beast!
Thorn Elemental- 7 points of guaranteed damage, yes please!
Who said anything about Necromancy?
I'm saying Animate Dead is worse than Reanimate, not that it is worse than Necromancy.
e.g. 4 Reanimate + 4 Exhume + 2 Animate Dead, or 4 Exhume + 3 Reanimate + 3 Animate Dead.
If only running 8, people usually go 4 Reanimate + 4 Exhume unless there is some specific reason why your deck needs a different configuration (e.g. Worldgorger Dragon or need for instant-speed stuff like Shallow Grave)
I don't love Animate Dead, but you are right in that the -1 power is better than paying the extra mana cost for Necromancy. Competitive decks have not run Necromancy since better options were printed (or unless they're going Hulk combo).