Hey guys. I am trying to do a budget mono black discard deck. I've got this deck right now, but I need some ideas to some good (and cheap xD) upgrades.
I prefer Shimian Specter to Guul Draz Specter; you will do enough damage with Shrieking Affliction, the rack and with your creatures, I still wouldn't play more than two or three copies of these. Personally I wouldn't play either
Hymn to Tourach always four copies, more if your deck is a discard deck.
The problem is this kind of deck is the lost of cards advantage, I think it would better if you put three or four copies of Phyrexian Arena, and there are cheap.
Liliana's Caress it good, but I think in this kind of deck your priority is discard fast, when you play Liliana's Caress the opponent has no card in his hand and some creatures on the board, then your problem will be destroy or remove these creatures; for that I see it's very important play Ensnaring Bridge, if not, you opponent will attack while you rule out his hand.
Blackmail is very good in this kind of deck, I think better than thoughtseize, because your creatures make do you opponent discard a card, but not a random, for that your opponent always will keep in hand his best card; and if your deck running well, your opponent never keep more than three card in his hand.
Sorry for my English
Shimian Specter is really better than Guul Draz Specter. Do you suggest to remove this Specter and put what? More discard spells?
Thanks god I've got 3 Ensnaring Bridge from my old cards. I'll test it out.
I have good experiences with Blackmail, I use in the second or in the third turn, when the opponent's hand has 4 or less cards. Thoughtseize is very expensive for me, not a budget card, unfortunately.
I don't know why you are playing all these specters and have not maxed out on your Hypnotic specter. Hes the best specter style creature in the game. If you play any number, play 4.
Also, Duress is among the 4 best discard spells ever printed (Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Hymn to Tourach being the other 3). I would also play 4 duress before you ever play something like Despise or Blackmail or funeral charm.
Finally, this may just be the style you want the deck to fit (and that is perfectly fine) but this deck seems like it is being pulled in 2 different directions. You are playing slow mono black control cards like Ensaring Bridge and Shrieking Affliction, but you are also playing midrange/aggro cards like the specters. I feel like you need to streamline your deck more, pick one or the other as far as strategies go.
I don't know why you are playing all these specters and have not maxed out on your Hypnotic specter. Hes the best specter style creature in the game. If you play any number, play 4.
Also, Duress is among the 4 best discard spells ever printed (Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Hymn to Tourach being the other 3). I would also play 4 duress before you ever play something like Despise or Blackmail or funeral charm.
Finally, this may just be the style you want the deck to fit (and that is perfectly fine) but this deck seems like it is being pulled in 2 different directions. You are playing slow mono black control cards like Ensaring Bridge and Shrieking Affliction, but you are also playing midrange/aggro cards like the specters. I feel like you need to streamline your deck more, pick one or the other as far as strategies go.
Feel free to ask me more questions if you need to.
You're right about those specters. I don't really like the 4 mana specters and the Hypnotic is the best, but Liliana's Specter is not bad in my opinion, it's a 2/1 flying creature with instant discard. Anyway, I'll test 4 Hypnotic Specter.
About Despise, Blackmail and Funeral Charm, the downside of Duress is not able to discard creature, so I'm trying just one. Blackmail, in my opinion, is a good card when you can't afford Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek. And the last one, Funeral Charm is cheap (1 mana), can kill 1/1 creatures (Great against elves and other combo 1/1 creatures) and makes the opponent discard a card. It's not bad at all, for me it's a budget versatile discard card.
The streamline I'm trying to follow is use some specters and creatures to help the hand disruption (Augur of Skulls is a good example, 1/1 body and when you sacrifice it, less two cards in the opponent's hand), using Liliana's Caress and The Rack to help on damage until Nyxathid comes to end the game.
The super budget section is probably where you want to look. There is a mono black control list that you may find interesting. I would post the list, but my internet is acting up.
As far as your previous post goes. You are running black, which has more removal than any other color in the game. If you are worried about creatures just kill them. It's okay if you can't afford thoughtseize or IoK, but I really can't stress the power of duress enough. Also, if Nyxathid is your finisher you probably want to play more copies. I might even say a full 4. You have no searches or draw manipulation, so you want to make sure you get him every game.
The super budget section is probably where you want to look. There is a mono black control list that you may find interesting. I would post the list, but my internet is acting up.
As far as your previous post goes. You are running black, which has more removal than any other color in the game. If you are worried about creatures just kill them. It's okay if you can't afford thoughtseize or IoK, but I really can't stress the power of duress enough. Also, if Nyxathid is your finisher you probably want to play more copies. I might even say a full 4. You have no searches or draw manipulation, so you want to make sure you get him every game.
The deck you said seems to be very good. Here is the list:
Sorin Markov has great abilities, good for control and can reduce the opponent's life to 10. But it cost 6 mana. Isn't better use Shriek Affliction? You can also drop The Rack, and both cards together can give 6 damage per turn, both are 1 mana cost.
The deck already runs the rack, and I don't really think it needs more than 4 of that particular ability. Sorin is better than affliction because he has more than one ability. He can kill creatures with his +2, and, his -3 means you can hasten your clock more so than you otherwise would be able to, and his ulti can straight up win you the game depending on the situation. The 6 mana doesn't really mean too much here, since you games will be going on for so long that you will almost certainly make the land drops in time to use him.
Maybe you just really like the creatures..I get that. It just seems like you would be better served running a budget pox deck rather than this. It is really really inexpensive and actually can work quite well. I'm on my phone so linking threads is beyond this old guys abilities but maybe spooky or somebody else can show you over to a pox thread.
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Possible cards
Smallpox - ?
Nezumi Shortfang - ?
Vampire Nighthawk - ?
Not budget cards
Liliana of the Veil - ?
Bad cards
Quest for the Nihil Stone - ?
Shimian Specter is really better than Guul Draz Specter. Do you suggest to remove this Specter and put what? More discard spells?
Thanks god I've got 3 Ensnaring Bridge from my old cards. I'll test it out.
I have good experiences with Blackmail, I use in the second or in the third turn, when the opponent's hand has 4 or less cards. Thoughtseize is very expensive for me, not a budget card, unfortunately.
4 Augur of Skulls
3 Hypnotic Specter
2 Liliana's Specter
3 Funeral Charm
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Victim of Night
4 Dark Ritual
1 Despise
1 Duress
2 Cry of Contrition
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Blackmail
2 Liliana's Caress
4 The Rack
2 Shrieking Affliction
3 Ensarning Bridge
17 Swamp
Also, Duress is among the 4 best discard spells ever printed (Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Hymn to Tourach being the other 3). I would also play 4 duress before you ever play something like Despise or Blackmail or funeral charm.
Finally, this may just be the style you want the deck to fit (and that is perfectly fine) but this deck seems like it is being pulled in 2 different directions. You are playing slow mono black control cards like Ensaring Bridge and Shrieking Affliction, but you are also playing midrange/aggro cards like the specters. I feel like you need to streamline your deck more, pick one or the other as far as strategies go.
You can check out this thread for some ideas...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10572951
Feel free to ask me more questions if you need to.
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You're right about those specters. I don't really like the 4 mana specters and the Hypnotic is the best, but Liliana's Specter is not bad in my opinion, it's a 2/1 flying creature with instant discard. Anyway, I'll test 4 Hypnotic Specter.
About Despise, Blackmail and Funeral Charm, the downside of Duress is not able to discard creature, so I'm trying just one. Blackmail, in my opinion, is a good card when you can't afford Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek. And the last one, Funeral Charm is cheap (1 mana), can kill 1/1 creatures (Great against elves and other combo 1/1 creatures) and makes the opponent discard a card. It's not bad at all, for me it's a budget versatile discard card.
The streamline I'm trying to follow is use some specters and creatures to help the hand disruption (Augur of Skulls is a good example, 1/1 body and when you sacrifice it, less two cards in the opponent's hand), using Liliana's Caress and The Rack to help on damage until Nyxathid comes to end the game.
1 Creakwood Liege
2 Nether Spirit
2 Tombstalker
Planeswalkers [4]
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Bitterblossom
4 Contamination
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Duress
2 Geth's Verdict
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Mutilate
The only problem is: How to make it budget? Liliana, Kozilek and Bitterblossom are expensive. Liliana is almost impossible to substitute (imo).
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=462444
The super budget section is probably where you want to look. There is a mono black control list that you may find interesting. I would post the list, but my internet is acting up.
As far as your previous post goes. You are running black, which has more removal than any other color in the game. If you are worried about creatures just kill them. It's okay if you can't afford thoughtseize or IoK, but I really can't stress the power of duress enough. Also, if Nyxathid is your finisher you probably want to play more copies. I might even say a full 4. You have no searches or draw manipulation, so you want to make sure you get him every game.
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The deck you said seems to be very good. Here is the list:
1 Darkblast
4 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Mutilate
3 Null Brooch
2 Smother
4 The Rack
3 Sorin Markov
22 Swamp
Sorin Markov has great abilities, good for control and can reduce the opponent's life to 10. But it cost 6 mana. Isn't better use Shriek Affliction? You can also drop The Rack, and both cards together can give 6 damage per turn, both are 1 mana cost.
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Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
Special thanks to Bornnover for the banner used in those articles.