Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
I like emeria angel. that tends towards a more mono white list, however.
Yamikiri, what would you suggest for a non budget version? Wastelands? Original Duals? Fetches? Force of will and friends? I have all of those options and more but to be entirely honest with you, in less than 100% tier 1 metas, I found the list I was playing more effective for my playstyle than the one that might concentrate on disruption. Sure, I was a dog to combo, but aggro and control strategies I never feared.
This is easily going to be the longest post I've ever written on here. Bear with me.
Yamikiri, I wouldn't mind helping you figure out a non-budget list. I myself am building a budget list right now but I'm definitely seeing some competitive potential here and wouldn't mind sinking some money into this deck in the future. The reason I haven't already done so is because I first like to see if an idea is viable, and second, I've recently put a lot of money into my Four Horsemen deck and need to hold off on spending a lot on MtG for awhile.
So that said, if, by also working on a non-budget list along with the budget list, the moderators would like to move this thread to developing, I am totally okay with that.
If you were to go that route, my first thought would be to run fetches and Brainstorm. Running fetches would make Emeria Angel more enticing, as well. Force of Will also couldn't hurt. Although, even if I was to build a more non-budget list myself, I'm not sure if I would include it. It really depends on what your vision is for the deck. If you keep the mana curve low enough, Aether Vial might not be a bad choice, though MM has hurt that card's usefulness somewhat.
Right now, the most current list on here draws parallels with Zoo, IMHO. Zoo overwhelms the opponent with small, powerful creatures and burn. This deck is just a hair slower in the first few turns and doesn't pack any burn, but has a better late game, creatures that fly and some additional protection against basic aggro in the form of Island Sanctuary.
If you want this deck to be more aggro-control like Merfolk, then FoW fits right in. I'd bench more on Blue and consider some of Weltkrieg's suggestions like the Spiketail critters and Keeper of the Nine Gales. All of those guys help aggravate your opponent. Aven Mindcensor is great too.
It's important to consider your meta. In my meta, I see some Elves, Burn, and White Weenie but I also see a lot of Tier 1 like Dredge, Hive Mind, U/W Stoneblade, Merfolk, Zoo, Sneak and Tell, High Tides, CounterTop, Landstill, ANT, Bant control...
My theory for this deck has been this. If I can out pace most other aggro decks, then I'm good against them and probably fast enough against a lot of control decks. That just leaves the combo decks to deal with which is not typically an aggro deck's forte. However, with creature based combo decks like Dredge, we have a potential first game win with Island Sanctuary and if you're running Stonecloaker, you're just that much better off. If it's not a creature based combo, it probably is stopped by Leyline of Sanctity and chances are it uses some form of tutoring and is slowed by Aven Mindcensor as well.
Now, going backwards through the posts, I want to devote some time to weltkrieg's response.
Point well taken. I like your thinking when it comes to bouncing a creature. Like I alluded to above, I don't want to shoot the curve of the deck up too high and kill the speed but I'm going to swap Cloudreach Cavalry out for Stonecloaker and give him a go. I'm also going to up Augury up to four, dropping one Preordain.
It's funny that you mention Celestial Crusader. I was looking at him earlier and wondering about him. I think I'm also going to drop the Honor of the Pure for a couple of him. The only downside is he pumps our opponent's Knight of the Reliquary or white weenies. Sanctuary, PtE, and StP should deal with that though.
Hussar has been testing well and I think he needs to be a 4-of in this list. I haven't had any problems with drawing more than I need. Keep in mind though, my mana curve is lower than your list and I also often have a Sanctuary out which means I'm only drawing one card per turn even with Hussar.
As for counterspells, FoW is great but... even when I've had the money to drop on them, I've just not been able to do it. I love MtG but $250 for a playset of one card is a little beyond what I'm willing to fork out.
Mental Misstep seems unnecessary in here. All of our creatures are out of MM's range which means our opponent's Misstep isn't that great against us. Also, Misstep has definitely slowed the format down. People are still playing 1 CMC cards but they're not as key to their deck.
Spell Snare hits a lot these days but one of my personal faves is Spell Pierce which I'm not opposed to running. I've got a set of Misdirection as well. Not as good as FoW but still a good counter, IMHO.
Kira's great but I don't have any of her and she's a bit expensive for me right now. I was thinking about her though. She might be worth looking into for this deck
Weltkrieg, I don't think it'd hurt to explore a more control-oriented version of this deck. Would you be interested in helping me put a list like that together? You definitely seem to have a good working knowledge of the control cards that would be good in here and I'm curious to see how you would throw a list like that together.
PS: What about Mana Maze against some combo and blue control? It would slow us down but we can get around this somewhat with guys like Pride of the Clouds.
The simple truth of is that pride of the clouds and sky hussar give you a nearly unstoppable late game, at least I've found that to be the case when I've played them (I love that, btw!) So many people underestimate forecast as a mechanic.
Mana maze? Interesting, Does squat to affinity, but does mess a lot with storm combo..I mean a LOT.
Other points well taken. In my case, I'll work on a recursive control type list. It'll be slow, but the late game flying beatdown should be downright mean. I will make both a budget and a non budget list for consideration, but not at the moment.
I don't think I would waste my time with battle screech. It's just too slow. Emeria angel can quite quickly get out of hand with something like this. I think I would much prefer that one myself.
As far as island sanctuary goes, you might try combining it with Humility along with your ascension, even though that is another deck entirely. At that point, you're pretty well attack proof.
For a control list, as promised, I've been brainstorming some. I'm going to just stick to birds for now. It looks like it's going to pretty well encompass blue and white for sure. Keeper of the nine gales looks necessary. However, I'm not entirely sure I should stick to just blue/white. I like your list as it stands, very much. Blue/white seems to need something extra. there are some very nice cards that can help, not the least of which is in green for birds of paradise. The reason I also suggest green is for a bit of mana acceleration because one of the birds I would really like to run costs 6 to drop. Admittedly, it's a very late game drop, but it can quickly get out of hand. Crookclaw elder is that card. You also get flurry of wings which is one I've been dying to try out in an aggro meta for a while. I'm not sure it's good enough, but one of these vs. an aggro deck like goblins or merfolk can quite possibly turn the tide in your favor.
Otherwise, I'm not sure how to make it work entirely. As an aggro control with a birds/flying theme, the decks already discussed will work well with island sanctuary. At this point, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a terrible idea to include a couple of opposition. It's going to be very slow to develop board position. A bird that fits well is raven familiar, but costs 3, which is when we need to be dropping keeper. At the same time, it works well with seaside haven, which loves to sacrifice squadron hawk and welkin hawk. I'm also entirely sure that a deck based around this needs something akin to an unstoppable or at least efficient late game bird engine. That is pretty well emeria angel, which wants fetchlands, which again points to green/white/blue. More fetches=better, here. so maybe a very very rough starting point for a creature based blue/white non budget list would be:
Now this is admittedly a terrible initial list. I don't know if the counters are right. I've tried to give plenty of basics in order to minimize wastelands effects. Counterspell could be daze/mental misstep/spell pierce, etc. One advantage to this deck is that there are exactly 8 mental misstep targets in it. Neither one is usually critical, as it opts for board control (opposition/keeper). This may even be a start for a counter top list, as much as I hate that combination. Also, it could probably use a good lord effect to pump out of volcanic fallout range, or maybe just some good reanimation. Perhaps Celestial Gatekeeper has a home here, I don't know. This list is pure theory craft and would require extensive playtesting. If I can get MWS up and running, Perhaps I can test with someone here.
Thanks! I appreciate the comment. Stormscape Familiar seems like a must to me. I agree with weltkrieg on Battle Screech. I think it's too costly for what it does. Spectral Procession seems like a better alternative. Gravitational Shift is interesting but also seems a bit expensive. Celestial Crusader instead? It doesn't do anything to non-fliers but it's a sweet card.
Luminarch Ascension is an interesting card. There's definitely some potential synergy between it and Sanctuary. I think including it would require definite changes to the deck to make it fit. You need ways to protect it, especially since it takes four turns to come online. Island Sanctuary doesn't seem like it would be enough to hold the fort down in this case. Again, I agree with weltkrieg. Humility seems like it'd be a great addition to a deck like that.
Weltkrieg, I like your ideas for a aggro control build. I definitely think it would be worth splashing for green. Flurry of Wings is a powerful card that almost makes green worth it by itself, IMHO. It might just be me because I'm a fan of keeping a lower mana curve but Crookclaw Elder is way too expensive for what he does. Your fave card, Sky Hussar, seems way better but I understand he's anti-synergistic with Keeper. Why not Sawtooth Loon then? Sawtooth Loon has synergies with Keeper and lets you pull off all the bounce tricks you talked about previously. He doesn't necessarily net you extra cards but he does let you cycle through your deck for what you need.
Opposition is a great choice, I think. I had forgotten about that card. It could really aggravate your opponent and if you explode with birds in the late game, Opposition basically seals their fate unless they can remove it.
I don't like Raven Familiar, to be honest. He's pretty weak as a creature and not really worth paying the echo cost, in my opinion. Granted the turn he's in play, he can be tapped with Keeper to do fun stuff but other than that, he's pretty much a weaker, more expensive Impulse. Why not Spire Owl instead? You're running enough fetches to keep him from walling you up and if you run Loon, you can either bounce him with the Loon or the Keeper to reuse.
Emeria Angel is easily your winner. I think she's great and really believe she could make this deck. If you ran green and Birds of Paradise, between them and Stormscape Familiar, you'd be able to drop Emeria pretty early in the game. Plus, she potentially makes Flurry of Wings that much more powerful.
Oh! I totally forgot about Seaside Haven! I might run a few in my list. Finally, I thought I'd say that I've play tested with a couple Celestial Gatekeeper in an earlier list and wasn't a fan but it might fit in your list better.
Anyways, I don't have MWS but am seriously considering purchasing it within the next few days. If you're looking for someone else to play test with, I'd be glad to help. =)
Quote from "weltkrieg" »
I like your list as it stands, very much.
Hey, I really appreciate that. I'm seriously honored. I'm hoping to run it in a local tourney soon. So far my work schedule just hasn't permitted it and that's partially the reason why I'm considering MWS. Anyways, I might make a couple small changes but overall I definitely think the list is only going to get better after I can run it in a tournament or play test it online. I need to see how it will hold up against the multitudes of decks out there.
Can't wait to see how it does! Hopefully it surprises a few people. =)
Battle Screech has the same CMC as Emeria Angel/Sawtooth Loon and usually Stormscape Familiar helps get them out a turn earlier. The Angel and Battle Screech combined tend to make a lot of tokens in my experience. Spectral Procession is a great card as well, but is really hard to splash, ecspecially when relying on Stormscape Familiar. Graviational Shift is at the top of the mana curve, but it sometimes basically says "I win" when I play it. I've won against a Treefolk deck with 2 copies Raking Canopy thanks to it. It generally keeps opponent's threats at bay.
That being said, my deck is pretty slow to get started. I've considered making it more of an aggro deck, but it was originally intended as a control deck, and I guess I'll try and develop more in that area.
Madcat, as it stands, one thing you're misinterpreting about my list. It's not an aggro control list, as that sort of lists usually relies on tempo to win. This is more like squirrel opposition from a long time ago which relied on squirrel token generation with opposition to completely lock down an opponents board. This list is control, no two ways about it, especially with keeper in there as 3 of.
The reason I would rather run raven familiar over an impulse are myriad, but the one that matters is: It's a weaker impulse, but it is a creature weaker impulse. One that taps things with opposition, gets bounced by keeper before it's echo triggers, or just sacrifices to seaside haven. In essence, you can abuse it. This deck does function as a control deck, yes, but it's mostly at sorcery speed with only enough counters to protect itself early from verifiable threats (in essence, you don't want to counter that brainstorm or card draw, you only want to counter the board wipe, the game ending threat you cant' deal with, etc.). Currently, it's not even in the list. However, I will be testing it as a 2 of to see if it warrants a slot.
For spire owl/sage owl, well, I actually used to run them in my list. The 4 card rearrange was very rarely useful and there was always still stuff that I definitely didn't want to see. If it had actually put one in my hand, maybe. The simple truth was that the raw card draw of the hussars in my list were beyond excellent and that was what replaced those early owls. There are one or two draw a card, discard a card 2 drop birds I might consider, but for now, no. Once augury owl got printed, though, I will run those, because the ability to get rid of the chaff is definitely a much better help.
edit: checked through my collection today. I only have one raven familiar and 2 keepers of the nine gales. I'm not sure whether to proxy it or just go for it otherwise. The other cards I have in spades.
Oh yeah man, I was definitely trying to look at your list as an aggro control deck. I think I am on the same wave length now, though. Have you had a chance to test it out at all?
Two keepers seems a little low for such a key card but since you've got them, you might as well give it a shot with two and see how it goes.
I'm thinking that with a deck that's easily able to bounce permanents, there's got to be stuff with nice CIP abilities that could be abused. It's been mentioned before and it's also not a bird but Spellstutter Sprite might be nice here. Like a reusable Daze or better if more than one is out. Or maybe something like Sunblast Angel? Gilded Drake feels like it could really be abused here.
Not to turn your list into a copy of mine but you could even consider running Island Sanctuary to stall a few turns, bouncing it so you can still draw. Or even better, you could use Solitary Confinement.
That said, these suggestions are more just to get the ideas flowing than they may necessarily be viable or in line with the goal of the deck. I'm just trying to think out of the box a bit.
Anyways, I had a chance to test my list against Merfolk and was pleased with the results! Here's what I used:
The list still felt quick and solid despite the greater number of higher CMC fliers. I shoehorned Mana Maze in to see how I'd like it but never got a chance to use it. In fact, I didn't even end up using Island Sanctuary, although it was a good card to bait out counter spells. I never let them keep their Lord of Atlantis in play so that was probably a smart call. Anyways, fact of the matter is that I was generally faster than Merfolk and I think that's what won me games. Pride of the Clouds really pulled a lot of weight.
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Force of Will is kind of like duct tape. Stick it in a deck and it will fix all your problems.
What would a game of Magic between Harry Potter and Voldemort look like?
In my legacy version of this deck, I run Seaside Haven with Soulcatchers' Aerie with Thrummingbird and Ajani, along with the typical bird targets. Swords or the Jitte are a nice touch, and Oblivion Ring and Path/Swords are good for removal. I think you've hit on the typical SB targets. I think Moat trumps Island Sanctuary, but the Santuary is a good budget option. A mistveil plains is also very nice in connection with Squadron Hawks to get you creatures back, and a Karakas can also help with problem legends.
for now, everything has to be a bird to maximize synergy. This deck has precious few ways to abuse that fact, so I must keep that a consideration, even if there are other stronger cards to use, such as I suggested for you. To abuse keeper, though, you need birds and birds alone. Emeria angel only gets the nod because with such a setup, it can generate ridiculous amounts of them.
In my legacy version of this deck, I run Seaside Haven with Soulcatchers' Aerie with Thrummingbird and Ajani, along with the typical bird targets. Swords or the Jitte are a nice touch, and Oblivion Ring and Path/Swords are good for removal. I think you've hit on the typical SB targets. I think Moat trumps Island Sanctuary, but the Santuary is a good budget option. A mistveil plains is also very nice in connection with Squadron Hawks to get you creatures back, and a Karakas can also help with problem legends.
Seaside Haven is definitely a land I will be throwing into my list. I just have to order a few. I considered Thrummingbird and Soulcatcher's Aerie but opted not to include them. Nice synergy between them, though.
Yeah, Moat is nice but probably won't ever be in my budget range. =P Karakas on the other hand is a card I might be able to acquire in the future. It sure would help against Emmy.
Quote from "weltkrieg" »
for now, everything has to be a bird to maximize synergy. This deck has precious few ways to abuse that fact, so I must keep that a consideration, even if there are other stronger cards to use, such as I suggested for you. To abuse keeper, though, you need birds and birds alone. Emeria angel only gets the nod because with such a setup, it can generate ridiculous amounts of them.
Hmm, yeah that does limit the options you have. I honestly think it has a lot of potential as is, though.
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Force of Will is kind of like duct tape. Stick it in a deck and it will fix all your problems.
What would a game of Magic between Harry Potter and Voldemort look like?
Seaside Haven is definitely a land I will be throwing into my list. I just have to order a few. I considered Thrummingbird and Soulcatcher's Aerie but opted not to include them. Nice synergy between them, though.
Yeah, Moat is nice but probably won't ever be in my budget range. =P Karakas on the other hand is a card I might be able to acquire in the future. It sure would help against Emmy.
Seaside haven is a waste in your list, madcat. It doesn't tap for colored mana, has "waste me' written all over it, costs you 7 mana to draw a card that doesn't cost you a card IE, use the forecast on pride of the clouds and then W/U Sacrifice it. On top of that, A very large chunk of your list isn't birds. You were saying my crookclaw elder was bad? not so much. At least mine could get explosive. Stick to the hussars, they're best for you.
For me, on the other hand, I have a list full of birds including some that i absolutely love to sacrifice. ie, Welkin Hawk loves to be sacrificed. I don't care if I off a squawk or two, and if I have an emeria angel online, well, I'm just wasting tokens I don't care about. On top of that, my list isn't mana intensive like your list. Once I get my birds online, I usually just go for activated abilities and hold back until I can eventually win.
True and your points are solid. I spaced on Seaside's requirement to sacrifice a bird and was thinking it was any flier. If it did work that way, I was thinking of running it as a one or two-of to use any spare mana for saccing a creature that was about to die anyways. Three potentially unused lands on a bird that's about to die isn't too steep a cost, in my opinion. It's situational, I know but figured it was worth testing. That said, it only works on birds and I agree, it wouldn't be that great. I'm def not dropping the Hussars. Don't worry because I realize they are key to the way the deck works. If not for them, Island Sanctuary wouldn't be good here and the whole deck would have to be redesigned, IMHO.
But to get to the point I really want to make. I hesitate often to say any card is bad because it can be surprising to see how others use cards and make them perform in their decks. When I make suggestions, I merely share my thoughts to hopefully help others think about their decks from new angles. I do share from my perspective how I imagine a deck being built, fully knowing the creator often has different ideas in mind and might not use any of my suggestions.
So when I offered up that I felt Crookclaw Elder is expensive for what he does, I was not attacking your ideas nor your competency as a deck builder, nor your ability to use him effectively in your deck. In fact, I greatly respect your opinion and your expertise with MTG. He is costly at 6 CMC but in a control deck you can usually drag the game out long enough to make use of something like that. His cost does not rule him out of being competitive in a deck. If he fits your play style and your deck, I say go for it man. Just in case you might have interpreted it from what I've said previously, I wasn't bashing you or anything for your suggestions. I seriously do like your control list.
i wasn't suggesting that you were insulting me, I was only using it as something to compare with in a past post. In fact, if I do make a bird/ramp list, then I most likely will use crookclaw elder as I really appreciate mass repeatable card draw (for example, just how obnoxious is that with flurry of wings..synergy is killer!) even if it's only 1 creature I can fetch to do it. For now, I am attempting to test the blue/white list. We'll see how it does. I may have to have an experienced landstill player or similar pilot it over me because I generally prefer sorcery speed you-know-it's-coming-and-still-can't-stop-it decks.
Good to hear. Wanted to make sure everything was chill and I'm glad it is. =)
Haven't posted for awhile because I have spent the last few days deck testing on Cockatrice. Tier 1 decks are definitely an uphill battle for the birds mostly because the deck ramps up more slowly, but against everything else I've had pretty good success. I didn't like the way a few things were working out in my previous list so I've changed it slightly:
In my deck testing I've really found that I'm often only attacking with one bird per turn, either because I'm tapping a few to draw cards with Hussar or leaving a few as blockers when I don't have Sanctuary out. And because my previous list just wasn't dishing out damage quite quickly enough, I opted to bring in Aven Squire and Ardent Plea to help with this. Ardent Plea is great in my opinion because it often nets you a bird or Sanctuary in the process and is still quite cheap to cast.
PtE was dropped to 3 and moved to the SB in place of O-Ring. I realized I really needed some maindeck removal that could deal with anything. Meddling Mage is in there as a two-of to prevent my opponent's from dropping key cards that can tip the game in their favor.
Cards I've considered and tried in the past few days include Siren's Call which was interesting but not completely necessary in a lot of situations and an alternate protection engine through the use of Meekstone and Plumes of Peace which, in some ways, I liked better than Sanctuary because Sanctuary is card disadvantage in a very brutal sense. Hussar helps greatly but sometimes I don't have two creatures out (or in hand) and Hussar in hand when I need to drop Island Sanctuary to survive. That's when it is rough.
I suspect meekstone would work better in my opposition build. I can't believe I hadn't considered it for testing earlier. I'll have a looksee at it later. Unfortunately, no results worth reporting yet. I've got a long way to go!
Hmm, Glory is interesting card. I don't really have a good way of getting it into my graveyard except for casting him and then having him die and his casting cost is a bit expensive. However, his effect in the graveyard is awesome, and it's a plus that he has flying as that fits with the deck quite well. All in all, I don't think he's quite right for this list in particular but he's worth keeping in mind if other cards in the deck end up being changed.
I've spent more time play testing and have gone back to using an older list, essentially:
Honestly, after all the play testing and experimenting I've done this just feels like the best list. It fits my play style the best, I believe. There are other solid options for a list like this and it really just comes down to how you pilot the deck and what you want it to do. Meddling Mage and Honor of the Pure are the most adjustable cards in this list. It's easy to pull them out and throw something else in without wrecking the deck.
Like, weltkrieg, I ended up determining that only 3x Sky Hussar are really necessary and I also feel that way about Stormscape Familiar.
Cloudreach Cavalry is a debatable card too and other players may prefer to run something else. In all honesty, though, I love him. He's been a great performer for me as he sets up a strong clock against my opponent that demands an answer. This forces my opponent to either use up removal on Cloudreach or another bird on the field in order to negate his effect. However, if they nuke the bird, I'm nearly always able to drop another next turn and attack with Cloudreach for 3 anyways. Mass removal is really the only point at which he can be a drawback to the deck.
At this point, I just need to find a consistent way to protect Island Sanctuary post SB. Overall, the deck performs quite solidly for the price, though. With a higher budget, there are a few changes I would make to the deck. It's been mentioned before but I think Umezawa's Jitte would be excellent here. Probably the most significant thing which hinders the deck is the mana base. Fetches would be great for preventing getting color screwed.
Finally, there is one more variation to this deck I've yet to try but haven't so far. I'd like to see how a variation with Thrummingbird, Soulcatcher and Soul Catchers' Aerie would run. I could see that building up quite quickly. I still like the list above a lot but I will give a Thrummingbird list a shot to see how it does
I just wanted to say that you inspired me to build a bird deck and I've been using the Soulcatcher package you described. Maybe it's just me, but Thrummingbird hasn't felt incredibly helpful to me... just letting my birds die seems to work well enough. I've found that Soulcatcher gets insta-killed fairly often, which is ok because he usually ends of fueling my other birds through Soulcatchers' Aerie.
Aven Mindcensor looks really cool and I'm gonna try him right away haha. I can't wait to see the look on my opponents faces when they can only look at the top 4 cards.
Also, what made you take out Reconnaissance? It seems like it would provide a bunch of fun combat tricks for only a single white mana.
Aven Mindcensor looks really cool and I'm gonna try him right away haha. I can't wait to see the look on my opponents faces when they can only look at the top 4 cards.
Also, what made you take out Reconnaissance? It seems like it would provide a bunch of fun combat tricks for only a single white mana.
Aven Mindcensor is great and at his best when you are playing in a developed meta where a lot of the decks are using fetch lands. Any time your opponent cracks a fetch for a land he'll end up searching only the top four cards of his library. You do have to understand this won't completely cripple your opponent as Mindcensor comes online turn 3 at the earliest and your opponent will already have a few lands by then. But seriously, for the chance of messing with your opponent's tempo, he's definitely worth running a few.
Reconnaissance is an amazing card but it doesn't really fit in my list for a few reasons. In the early Angry Bird lists running Reconnaissance, the enchantment mainly served to give my birds pseudo-vigilance so they could swing in for damage and still be able to chump block my opponent's creatures on their turn. In the Legacy format, flying creatures are rare which means Reconnaissance really isn't too useful beyond giving your birds vigilance. But don't get me wrong, an enchantment that gives all your birds vigilance for one is quite powerful. Here's the issue, though. Generally, birds are small and when you chump block you are not trading one-for-one with your opponent's creatures. Instead, you're losing a creature while theirs lives on which means you've really only delayed the inevitable damage by a turn.
... Unless, of course, you can drop birds into play continuously each turn, which is what I used Squadron Hawk and Welkin Hawk for. They helped me keep a hand filled with birds even when I was pitching so many to my opponent's creatures. The problem is, birds have summoning sickness just like any other creature and I was often having to chump them before getting a chance to attack with them. That's when you know the board has shifted in your opponent's favor. At this point, you have to have game changers in your deck that can stop this trend.
That's where Soulcatcher and Soulcatchers' Aerie come into play. They can help grow your birds to a frightening size quite quickly and that, of course can help alleviate the chump blocking problem. However, a smart player will know to save his removal for those two cards as they can really be the game changers.
Anyways, to finally answer your question, I decided to side skirt the whole issue mentioned above by running Island Sanctuary instead. Once Sanctuary comes online, I'm usually only losing birds to removal because so few Legacy decks run fliers other than stuff like Vendilion Clique which is pretty easy to deal with. With Sanctuary, Reconnaissance isn't really necessary because no decks use fliers to make use of Reconnaissance's combat shenanigans, nor do I need to give my birds vigilance because they generally don't need to block at this point. In this case, I'd rather run more birds in place of Reconnaissance.
Quote from Fakeinit »
Do you ever cast Pride of the Clouds or is he purely used for forecast?
Definitely. He's really the big hitter in the deck. In fact, I'd have to say I drop him more often than I use his forecast ability. But it really depends on the deck your playing against and what situation you're in. If you've got Sanctuary down and your opponent is playing a slower deck filled with control, his forecast ability is great. It lets you "hunker down" and play a slower, more protective game if need be. Forecast is awesome because it's basically uncounterable except by things like Stifle.
Quote from Fakeinit »
How do you feel about your nonbirds? Would you suggest straying away from an all bird theme?
I like them but not all are completely necessary. I've already talked about Cloudreach Cavalry in the past and why I like him so much. Pride of the Clouds is a beast and Sky Hussar is really what makes Island Sanctuary so playable in this deck. He gives great card advantage and card advantage wins games. Pride and Sky Hussar are really the two that I would not pull from this deck.
Stonecloaker is one you might love or hate. He lets you bounce your Augury Owl back to your hand to be used again which is a nice trick and he can also snipe cards out of your opponent's graveyard if and when the need arises. If you're including him just to deal with graveyard stuff then he's a bit too expensive for that, IMHO, but he comes with a decent-sized body and flash makes him great in a pinch.
Looks like Innistrad might have at least one new bird card that's worth looking at for this deck. Mindshrieker.
It's a 1/1 Bird for one colorless, one blue with this cool ability:
Quote from MTG Salvation Innistrad Spoiler »
2: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. Mindshrieker gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is that card's converted mana cost.
It has the situational potential to mess up tutors, Ponder, Brainstorm, etc. And of course, it's also a potentially awesome hitter. It'll suck when you mill a land off the top, tho, so I could see some reliability issues with it.
Anyone have any thoughts?
EDIT: Also, while this would entail building something completely different than Angry Birds, I've also been exploring the idea of putting together a different deck that still makes use of the Sky Hussar/Island Sanctuary engine. I'll share if I come up with anything significant.
Reconnaissance is an amazing card but it doesn't really fit in my list for a few reasons. In the early Angry Bird lists running Reconnaissance, the enchantment mainly served to give my birds pseudo-haste so they could swing in for damage and still be able to chump block my opponent's creatures on their turn. In the Legacy format, flying creatures are rare which means Reconnaissance really isn't too useful beyond giving your birds haste. But don't get me wrong, an enchantment that gives all your birds haste for one is quite powerful. Here's the issue, though. Generally, birds are small and when you chump block you are not trading one-for-one with your opponent's creatures. Instead, you're losing a creature while theirs lives on which means you've really only delayed the inevitable damage by a turn.
You keep saying, "haste," but I can't help but believe you mean "vigilance."
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"It's actually quite simple, but since you've only recently begun to walk upright, it may take some time to explain."
—Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Yamikiri, what would you suggest for a non budget version? Wastelands? Original Duals? Fetches? Force of will and friends? I have all of those options and more but to be entirely honest with you, in less than 100% tier 1 metas, I found the list I was playing more effective for my playstyle than the one that might concentrate on disruption. Sure, I was a dog to combo, but aggro and control strategies I never feared.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Yamikiri, I wouldn't mind helping you figure out a non-budget list. I myself am building a budget list right now but I'm definitely seeing some competitive potential here and wouldn't mind sinking some money into this deck in the future. The reason I haven't already done so is because I first like to see if an idea is viable, and second, I've recently put a lot of money into my Four Horsemen deck and need to hold off on spending a lot on MtG for awhile.
So that said, if, by also working on a non-budget list along with the budget list, the moderators would like to move this thread to developing, I am totally okay with that.
If you were to go that route, my first thought would be to run fetches and Brainstorm. Running fetches would make Emeria Angel more enticing, as well. Force of Will also couldn't hurt. Although, even if I was to build a more non-budget list myself, I'm not sure if I would include it. It really depends on what your vision is for the deck. If you keep the mana curve low enough, Aether Vial might not be a bad choice, though MM has hurt that card's usefulness somewhat.
Right now, the most current list on here draws parallels with Zoo, IMHO. Zoo overwhelms the opponent with small, powerful creatures and burn. This deck is just a hair slower in the first few turns and doesn't pack any burn, but has a better late game, creatures that fly and some additional protection against basic aggro in the form of Island Sanctuary.
If you want this deck to be more aggro-control like Merfolk, then FoW fits right in. I'd bench more on Blue and consider some of Weltkrieg's suggestions like the Spiketail critters and Keeper of the Nine Gales. All of those guys help aggravate your opponent. Aven Mindcensor is great too.
It's important to consider your meta. In my meta, I see some Elves, Burn, and White Weenie but I also see a lot of Tier 1 like Dredge, Hive Mind, U/W Stoneblade, Merfolk, Zoo, Sneak and Tell, High Tides, CounterTop, Landstill, ANT, Bant control...
My theory for this deck has been this. If I can out pace most other aggro decks, then I'm good against them and probably fast enough against a lot of control decks. That just leaves the combo decks to deal with which is not typically an aggro deck's forte. However, with creature based combo decks like Dredge, we have a potential first game win with Island Sanctuary and if you're running Stonecloaker, you're just that much better off. If it's not a creature based combo, it probably is stopped by Leyline of Sanctity and chances are it uses some form of tutoring and is slowed by Aven Mindcensor as well.
Now, going backwards through the posts, I want to devote some time to weltkrieg's response.
Point well taken. I like your thinking when it comes to bouncing a creature. Like I alluded to above, I don't want to shoot the curve of the deck up too high and kill the speed but I'm going to swap Cloudreach Cavalry out for Stonecloaker and give him a go. I'm also going to up Augury up to four, dropping one Preordain.
It's funny that you mention Celestial Crusader. I was looking at him earlier and wondering about him. I think I'm also going to drop the Honor of the Pure for a couple of him. The only downside is he pumps our opponent's Knight of the Reliquary or white weenies. Sanctuary, PtE, and StP should deal with that though.
Hussar has been testing well and I think he needs to be a 4-of in this list. I haven't had any problems with drawing more than I need. Keep in mind though, my mana curve is lower than your list and I also often have a Sanctuary out which means I'm only drawing one card per turn even with Hussar.
As for counterspells, FoW is great but... even when I've had the money to drop on them, I've just not been able to do it. I love MtG but $250 for a playset of one card is a little beyond what I'm willing to fork out.
Mental Misstep seems unnecessary in here. All of our creatures are out of MM's range which means our opponent's Misstep isn't that great against us. Also, Misstep has definitely slowed the format down. People are still playing 1 CMC cards but they're not as key to their deck.
Spell Snare hits a lot these days but one of my personal faves is Spell Pierce which I'm not opposed to running. I've got a set of Misdirection as well. Not as good as FoW but still a good counter, IMHO.
I also definitely like Silence, Orim's Chant and Abeyance. Rootwater Thief is intriguing. =)
Kira's great but I don't have any of her and she's a bit expensive for me right now. I was thinking about her though. She might be worth looking into for this deck
Weltkrieg, I don't think it'd hurt to explore a more control-oriented version of this deck. Would you be interested in helping me put a list like that together? You definitely seem to have a good working knowledge of the control cards that would be good in here and I'm curious to see how you would throw a list like that together.
PS: What about Mana Maze against some combo and blue control? It would slow us down but we can get around this somewhat with guys like Pride of the Clouds.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Mana maze? Interesting, Does squat to affinity, but does mess a lot with storm combo..I mean a LOT.
Other points well taken. In my case, I'll work on a recursive control type list. It'll be slow, but the late game flying beatdown should be downright mean. I will make both a budget and a non budget list for consideration, but not at the moment.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Edit: Island Sanctuary seems like it'd be great with Luminarch Ascension
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
As far as island sanctuary goes, you might try combining it with Humility along with your ascension, even though that is another deck entirely. At that point, you're pretty well attack proof.
For a control list, as promised, I've been brainstorming some. I'm going to just stick to birds for now. It looks like it's going to pretty well encompass blue and white for sure. Keeper of the nine gales looks necessary. However, I'm not entirely sure I should stick to just blue/white. I like your list as it stands, very much. Blue/white seems to need something extra. there are some very nice cards that can help, not the least of which is in green for birds of paradise. The reason I also suggest green is for a bit of mana acceleration because one of the birds I would really like to run costs 6 to drop. Admittedly, it's a very late game drop, but it can quickly get out of hand. Crookclaw elder is that card. You also get flurry of wings which is one I've been dying to try out in an aggro meta for a while. I'm not sure it's good enough, but one of these vs. an aggro deck like goblins or merfolk can quite possibly turn the tide in your favor.
Otherwise, I'm not sure how to make it work entirely. As an aggro control with a birds/flying theme, the decks already discussed will work well with island sanctuary. At this point, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a terrible idea to include a couple of opposition. It's going to be very slow to develop board position. A bird that fits well is raven familiar, but costs 3, which is when we need to be dropping keeper. At the same time, it works well with seaside haven, which loves to sacrifice squadron hawk and welkin hawk. I'm also entirely sure that a deck based around this needs something akin to an unstoppable or at least efficient late game bird engine. That is pretty well emeria angel, which wants fetchlands, which again points to green/white/blue. More fetches=better, here. so maybe a very very rough starting point for a creature based blue/white non budget list would be:
4 Stormscape familiar
4 Augury Owl
4 Squadron hawk
4 Welkin Hawk
3 keeper of the nine gales
2 emeria angel
3 Opposition
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
Land Base
3 Seaside Haven
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept heath
4 Tundra
3 Island
3 Plains
Now this is admittedly a terrible initial list. I don't know if the counters are right. I've tried to give plenty of basics in order to minimize wastelands effects. Counterspell could be daze/mental misstep/spell pierce, etc. One advantage to this deck is that there are exactly 8 mental misstep targets in it. Neither one is usually critical, as it opts for board control (opposition/keeper). This may even be a start for a counter top list, as much as I hate that combination. Also, it could probably use a good lord effect to pump out of volcanic fallout range, or maybe just some good reanimation. Perhaps Celestial Gatekeeper has a home here, I don't know. This list is pure theory craft and would require extensive playtesting. If I can get MWS up and running, Perhaps I can test with someone here.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Thanks! I appreciate the comment. Stormscape Familiar seems like a must to me. I agree with weltkrieg on Battle Screech. I think it's too costly for what it does. Spectral Procession seems like a better alternative. Gravitational Shift is interesting but also seems a bit expensive. Celestial Crusader instead? It doesn't do anything to non-fliers but it's a sweet card.
Luminarch Ascension is an interesting card. There's definitely some potential synergy between it and Sanctuary. I think including it would require definite changes to the deck to make it fit. You need ways to protect it, especially since it takes four turns to come online. Island Sanctuary doesn't seem like it would be enough to hold the fort down in this case. Again, I agree with weltkrieg. Humility seems like it'd be a great addition to a deck like that.
Weltkrieg, I like your ideas for a aggro control build. I definitely think it would be worth splashing for green. Flurry of Wings is a powerful card that almost makes green worth it by itself, IMHO. It might just be me because I'm a fan of keeping a lower mana curve but Crookclaw Elder is way too expensive for what he does. Your fave card, Sky Hussar, seems way better but I understand he's anti-synergistic with Keeper. Why not Sawtooth Loon then? Sawtooth Loon has synergies with Keeper and lets you pull off all the bounce tricks you talked about previously. He doesn't necessarily net you extra cards but he does let you cycle through your deck for what you need.
Opposition is a great choice, I think. I had forgotten about that card. It could really aggravate your opponent and if you explode with birds in the late game, Opposition basically seals their fate unless they can remove it.
I don't like Raven Familiar, to be honest. He's pretty weak as a creature and not really worth paying the echo cost, in my opinion. Granted the turn he's in play, he can be tapped with Keeper to do fun stuff but other than that, he's pretty much a weaker, more expensive Impulse. Why not Spire Owl instead? You're running enough fetches to keep him from walling you up and if you run Loon, you can either bounce him with the Loon or the Keeper to reuse.
Emeria Angel is easily your winner. I think she's great and really believe she could make this deck. If you ran green and Birds of Paradise, between them and Stormscape Familiar, you'd be able to drop Emeria pretty early in the game. Plus, she potentially makes Flurry of Wings that much more powerful.
Oh! I totally forgot about Seaside Haven! I might run a few in my list. Finally, I thought I'd say that I've play tested with a couple Celestial Gatekeeper in an earlier list and wasn't a fan but it might fit in your list better.
Anyways, I don't have MWS but am seriously considering purchasing it within the next few days. If you're looking for someone else to play test with, I'd be glad to help. =)
Hey, I really appreciate that. I'm seriously honored. I'm hoping to run it in a local tourney soon. So far my work schedule just hasn't permitted it and that's partially the reason why I'm considering MWS. Anyways, I might make a couple small changes but overall I definitely think the list is only going to get better after I can run it in a tournament or play test it online. I need to see how it will hold up against the multitudes of decks out there.
Can't wait to see how it does! Hopefully it surprises a few people. =)
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
That being said, my deck is pretty slow to get started. I've considered making it more of an aggro deck, but it was originally intended as a control deck, and I guess I'll try and develop more in that area.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
The reason I would rather run raven familiar over an impulse are myriad, but the one that matters is: It's a weaker impulse, but it is a creature weaker impulse. One that taps things with opposition, gets bounced by keeper before it's echo triggers, or just sacrifices to seaside haven. In essence, you can abuse it. This deck does function as a control deck, yes, but it's mostly at sorcery speed with only enough counters to protect itself early from verifiable threats (in essence, you don't want to counter that brainstorm or card draw, you only want to counter the board wipe, the game ending threat you cant' deal with, etc.). Currently, it's not even in the list. However, I will be testing it as a 2 of to see if it warrants a slot.
For spire owl/sage owl, well, I actually used to run them in my list. The 4 card rearrange was very rarely useful and there was always still stuff that I definitely didn't want to see. If it had actually put one in my hand, maybe. The simple truth was that the raw card draw of the hussars in my list were beyond excellent and that was what replaced those early owls. There are one or two draw a card, discard a card 2 drop birds I might consider, but for now, no. Once augury owl got printed, though, I will run those, because the ability to get rid of the chaff is definitely a much better help.
edit: checked through my collection today. I only have one raven familiar and 2 keepers of the nine gales. I'm not sure whether to proxy it or just go for it otherwise. The other cards I have in spades.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Two keepers seems a little low for such a key card but since you've got them, you might as well give it a shot with two and see how it goes.
I'm thinking that with a deck that's easily able to bounce permanents, there's got to be stuff with nice CIP abilities that could be abused. It's been mentioned before and it's also not a bird but Spellstutter Sprite might be nice here. Like a reusable Daze or better if more than one is out. Or maybe something like Sunblast Angel? Gilded Drake feels like it could really be abused here.
Not to turn your list into a copy of mine but you could even consider running Island Sanctuary to stall a few turns, bouncing it so you can still draw. Or even better, you could use Solitary Confinement.
That said, these suggestions are more just to get the ideas flowing than they may necessarily be viable or in line with the goal of the deck. I'm just trying to think out of the box a bit.
Anyways, I had a chance to test my list against Merfolk and was pleased with the results! Here's what I used:
4x Augury Owl
2x Celestial Crusader
4x Pride of the Clouds
4x Sky Hussar
4x Squadron Hawk
3x Stonecloaker
4x Stormscape Familiar
2x Preordain
Land (19)
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Island
11x Plains
Enchantment (6)
4x Island Sanctuary
2x Mana Maze
Instant (8)
4x Path to Exile
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Aven Mindcensor
4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Leyline of Sanctity
The list still felt quick and solid despite the greater number of higher CMC fliers. I shoehorned Mana Maze in to see how I'd like it but never got a chance to use it. In fact, I didn't even end up using Island Sanctuary, although it was a good card to bait out counter spells. I never let them keep their Lord of Atlantis in play so that was probably a smart call. Anyways, fact of the matter is that I was generally faster than Merfolk and I think that's what won me games. Pride of the Clouds really pulled a lot of weight.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Seaside Haven is definitely a land I will be throwing into my list. I just have to order a few. I considered Thrummingbird and Soulcatcher's Aerie but opted not to include them. Nice synergy between them, though.
Yeah, Moat is nice but probably won't ever be in my budget range. =P Karakas on the other hand is a card I might be able to acquire in the future. It sure would help against Emmy.
Hmm, yeah that does limit the options you have. I honestly think it has a lot of potential as is, though.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Seaside haven is a waste in your list, madcat. It doesn't tap for colored mana, has "waste me' written all over it, costs you 7 mana to draw a card that doesn't cost you a card IE, use the forecast on pride of the clouds and then W/U Sacrifice it. On top of that, A very large chunk of your list isn't birds. You were saying my crookclaw elder was bad? not so much. At least mine could get explosive. Stick to the hussars, they're best for you.
For me, on the other hand, I have a list full of birds including some that i absolutely love to sacrifice. ie, Welkin Hawk loves to be sacrificed. I don't care if I off a squawk or two, and if I have an emeria angel online, well, I'm just wasting tokens I don't care about. On top of that, my list isn't mana intensive like your list. Once I get my birds online, I usually just go for activated abilities and hold back until I can eventually win.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
But to get to the point I really want to make. I hesitate often to say any card is bad because it can be surprising to see how others use cards and make them perform in their decks. When I make suggestions, I merely share my thoughts to hopefully help others think about their decks from new angles. I do share from my perspective how I imagine a deck being built, fully knowing the creator often has different ideas in mind and might not use any of my suggestions.
So when I offered up that I felt Crookclaw Elder is expensive for what he does, I was not attacking your ideas nor your competency as a deck builder, nor your ability to use him effectively in your deck. In fact, I greatly respect your opinion and your expertise with MTG. He is costly at 6 CMC but in a control deck you can usually drag the game out long enough to make use of something like that. His cost does not rule him out of being competitive in a deck. If he fits your play style and your deck, I say go for it man. Just in case you might have interpreted it from what I've said previously, I wasn't bashing you or anything for your suggestions. I seriously do like your control list.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Haven't posted for awhile because I have spent the last few days deck testing on Cockatrice. Tier 1 decks are definitely an uphill battle for the birds mostly because the deck ramps up more slowly, but against everything else I've had pretty good success. I didn't like the way a few things were working out in my previous list so I've changed it slightly:
4x Augury Owl
3x Aven Squire
2x Meddling Mage
4x Pride of the Clouds
4x Sky Hussar
4x Squadron Hawk
4x Stormscape Familiar
4x Swords to Plowshares
Enchantment (10)
3x Ardent Plea
4x Island Sanctuary
3x Oblivion Ring
Land (19)
4x Glacial Fortress
5x Island
10x Plains
2x Preordain
In my deck testing I've really found that I'm often only attacking with one bird per turn, either because I'm tapping a few to draw cards with Hussar or leaving a few as blockers when I don't have Sanctuary out. And because my previous list just wasn't dishing out damage quite quickly enough, I opted to bring in Aven Squire and Ardent Plea to help with this. Ardent Plea is great in my opinion because it often nets you a bird or Sanctuary in the process and is still quite cheap to cast.
PtE was dropped to 3 and moved to the SB in place of O-Ring. I realized I really needed some maindeck removal that could deal with anything. Meddling Mage is in there as a two-of to prevent my opponent's from dropping key cards that can tip the game in their favor.
Cards I've considered and tried in the past few days include Siren's Call which was interesting but not completely necessary in a lot of situations and an alternate protection engine through the use of Meekstone and Plumes of Peace which, in some ways, I liked better than Sanctuary because Sanctuary is card disadvantage in a very brutal sense. Hussar helps greatly but sometimes I don't have two creatures out (or in hand) and Hussar in hand when I need to drop Island Sanctuary to survive. That's when it is rough.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
This card has saved me so many times it's not even funny. (in the GY, obv)
:2mana::symw: is very doable.
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I've spent more time play testing and have gone back to using an older list, essentially:
4x Augury Owl
3x Aven Mindcensor
4x Cloudreach Cavalry
2x Meddling Mage
4x Pride of the Clouds
3x Sky Hussar
4x Squadron Hawk
2x Stonecloaker
3x Stormscape Familiar
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Island
10x Plains
Enchantment (6)
2x Honor of the Pure
4x Island Sanctuary
3x Path to Exile
4x Swords to Plowshares
Honestly, after all the play testing and experimenting I've done this just feels like the best list. It fits my play style the best, I believe. There are other solid options for a list like this and it really just comes down to how you pilot the deck and what you want it to do. Meddling Mage and Honor of the Pure are the most adjustable cards in this list. It's easy to pull them out and throw something else in without wrecking the deck.
Like, weltkrieg, I ended up determining that only 3x Sky Hussar are really necessary and I also feel that way about Stormscape Familiar.
Cloudreach Cavalry is a debatable card too and other players may prefer to run something else. In all honesty, though, I love him. He's been a great performer for me as he sets up a strong clock against my opponent that demands an answer. This forces my opponent to either use up removal on Cloudreach or another bird on the field in order to negate his effect. However, if they nuke the bird, I'm nearly always able to drop another next turn and attack with Cloudreach for 3 anyways. Mass removal is really the only point at which he can be a drawback to the deck.
At this point, I just need to find a consistent way to protect Island Sanctuary post SB. Overall, the deck performs quite solidly for the price, though. With a higher budget, there are a few changes I would make to the deck. It's been mentioned before but I think Umezawa's Jitte would be excellent here. Probably the most significant thing which hinders the deck is the mana base. Fetches would be great for preventing getting color screwed.
Finally, there is one more variation to this deck I've yet to try but haven't so far. I'd like to see how a variation with Thrummingbird, Soulcatcher and Soul Catchers' Aerie would run. I could see that building up quite quickly. I still like the list above a lot but I will give a Thrummingbird list a shot to see how it does
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Aven Mindcensor looks really cool and I'm gonna try him right away haha. I can't wait to see the look on my opponents faces when they can only look at the top 4 cards.
Also, what made you take out Reconnaissance? It seems like it would provide a bunch of fun combat tricks for only a single white mana.
Do you ever cast Pride of the Clouds or is he purely used for forecast?
How do you feel about your nonbirds? Would you suggest straying away from an all bird theme?
Thank you! and sorry for all the questions.
Aven Mindcensor is great and at his best when you are playing in a developed meta where a lot of the decks are using fetch lands. Any time your opponent cracks a fetch for a land he'll end up searching only the top four cards of his library. You do have to understand this won't completely cripple your opponent as Mindcensor comes online turn 3 at the earliest and your opponent will already have a few lands by then. But seriously, for the chance of messing with your opponent's tempo, he's definitely worth running a few.
Reconnaissance is an amazing card but it doesn't really fit in my list for a few reasons. In the early Angry Bird lists running Reconnaissance, the enchantment mainly served to give my birds pseudo-vigilance so they could swing in for damage and still be able to chump block my opponent's creatures on their turn. In the Legacy format, flying creatures are rare which means Reconnaissance really isn't too useful beyond giving your birds vigilance. But don't get me wrong, an enchantment that gives all your birds vigilance for one is quite powerful. Here's the issue, though. Generally, birds are small and when you chump block you are not trading one-for-one with your opponent's creatures. Instead, you're losing a creature while theirs lives on which means you've really only delayed the inevitable damage by a turn.
... Unless, of course, you can drop birds into play continuously each turn, which is what I used Squadron Hawk and Welkin Hawk for. They helped me keep a hand filled with birds even when I was pitching so many to my opponent's creatures. The problem is, birds have summoning sickness just like any other creature and I was often having to chump them before getting a chance to attack with them. That's when you know the board has shifted in your opponent's favor. At this point, you have to have game changers in your deck that can stop this trend.
That's where Soulcatcher and Soulcatchers' Aerie come into play. They can help grow your birds to a frightening size quite quickly and that, of course can help alleviate the chump blocking problem. However, a smart player will know to save his removal for those two cards as they can really be the game changers.
Anyways, to finally answer your question, I decided to side skirt the whole issue mentioned above by running Island Sanctuary instead. Once Sanctuary comes online, I'm usually only losing birds to removal because so few Legacy decks run fliers other than stuff like Vendilion Clique which is pretty easy to deal with. With Sanctuary, Reconnaissance isn't really necessary because no decks use fliers to make use of Reconnaissance's combat shenanigans, nor do I need to give my birds vigilance because they generally don't need to block at this point. In this case, I'd rather run more birds in place of Reconnaissance.
Definitely. He's really the big hitter in the deck. In fact, I'd have to say I drop him more often than I use his forecast ability. But it really depends on the deck your playing against and what situation you're in. If you've got Sanctuary down and your opponent is playing a slower deck filled with control, his forecast ability is great. It lets you "hunker down" and play a slower, more protective game if need be. Forecast is awesome because it's basically uncounterable except by things like Stifle.
I like them but not all are completely necessary. I've already talked about Cloudreach Cavalry in the past and why I like him so much. Pride of the Clouds is a beast and Sky Hussar is really what makes Island Sanctuary so playable in this deck. He gives great card advantage and card advantage wins games. Pride and Sky Hussar are really the two that I would not pull from this deck.
Stonecloaker is one you might love or hate. He lets you bounce your Augury Owl back to your hand to be used again which is a nice trick and he can also snipe cards out of your opponent's graveyard if and when the need arises. If you're including him just to deal with graveyard stuff then he's a bit too expensive for that, IMHO, but he comes with a decent-sized body and flash makes him great in a pinch.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
It's a 1/1 Bird for one colorless, one blue with this cool ability:
It has the situational potential to mess up tutors, Ponder, Brainstorm, etc. And of course, it's also a potentially awesome hitter. It'll suck when you mill a land off the top, tho, so I could see some reliability issues with it.
Anyone have any thoughts?
EDIT: Also, while this would entail building something completely different than Angry Birds, I've also been exploring the idea of putting together a different deck that still makes use of the Sky Hussar/Island Sanctuary engine. I'll share if I come up with anything significant.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
You keep saying, "haste," but I can't help but believe you mean "vigilance."
—Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB