People who play with proxies don't value the cards, and thus the game enough for me to want to play with them. There seems to be a correlation between # of proxies and the quality of the player, and thus the games that come from them.
Save of course people who do own the cards, expensive cards, and don't like swapping them between multiple decks (ie in commander mostly).
Well that is a ridiculous statement. You have to realize that there are people who cannot afford to own $250+ cards because their situation doesn't allow it. These kind of statements are elitist and the along with the Reserved List, will lead to the decline of the format.
Proxies are perfectly fine so long as they are in place of expensive or hard to find cards, and the person is working towards acquiring the cards. Proxies allow people to try out the format and builds the player base. I understand not allowing proxies in a GP or large tournament, because WotC is a business, but proxies should be allowed in LGSs.
I don't care if someone uses proxies in testing or casual play. Why should I care, I too am just happy to be playing Legacy with as many people as possible. However, at sanctioned tournaments I do like the enforcement of legal cards.
Testing on Trice is no different then using proxies, but other then people whinging on players leaving after game 1, no one complains about using non sanctioned software.
It's silly to say if you don't own the card, you aren't serious about the game. Considering how many people would probably like to play, but cannot afford 3k for a good deck.
when i got back into playing magic (quit in mirrodin, got back in innistrad when my friends began to play) they told me about proxies and I was like WTF is that, no way I'm playing against a piece of paper, and still till today I don't like it.
But, to be honest, I'm grateful to have a good income and have the luxury of buying whatever staples I want, and I recognize tons of people really like Magic in general but can't afford some of the cards (specially here in Argentina, they are super expensive), and I don't like playing against sub-optimal decks in general, because it givez you a bad scanning on how your deck truly performs. I tolerate proxies as long as I can feel the proxy user will eventually save money (or at least try) to buy the card. What I don't like is proxying in excess, because it's disgusting to play against 100 hundred cards faced down with sharpied paper on them.
We have a pretty relaxed attitude towards proxies in our group. But there are some "unwritten rules".
When testing some new deck. - You are either playtesting a new deck, or planning on aquiring the cards (no rush, as long as you're trying).
Cards are in other decks. - This is of course allowed, you shouldn't have to switch cards around just to play or test.
You should have proper proxies. - No sharpies on pieces of paper, you'll get mocked if the proxies are very bad.
Proxies are a usefull tool. I am a poor student, so I have some proxied decks that I am slowly completing. Those that I don't like after playtesting, I take apart. I don't have proxied decks that I have no intention of completing.
I also can't afford several of some expensive commander cards, so I own 1 and proxy for the rest. Though I try to vary my commander decks a bit, no need to play the same cards in them all just because it's the most powerful. Unfortunately, some cards are too good and unique (sylvan library as a random example)
While I do not use them, I have no problem with them in general. Two people in my regular group use proxies. One of them uses proxies when she has ordered the cards and is just waiting for them to show up or is testing how a card plays. The other guy uses them only to see if he likes the card. In all cases of proxies in my group they are used then the player has every intention of buying the actual cards.
The problem with proxied tournaments is that the proxy players, if left unchecked, simply proxy up the 'best deck' and play it against what are usually sub-optimal builds.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
I have a savage collection. Until recently I trotted my expensive cards out with reckless abandon whenever I felt like it. But I have "lost" about 10 dual lands over the last 20 years. I can't say for sure that they were stolen. Or lost. Or what. But I will say that expensive cards have a way of disappearing if you use them enough no matter how careful you are. I simply cannot afford to replace them anymore. I will happily buy lots of inkjet cartridges instead.
But take pride in your proxies, friends. I know a fellow who has up to two card names crossed out and a third crammed in on the bottom of basic lands. I know another who writes nearly, but not entirely unintelligible phrases on card backs to tell him what a card is, but it does nothing for anyone else. Jason, my old friend, if you are reading this, having to translate "g/w" and "dive top" into card text really limits everyone else's immersion into the game. A third person actually has "Swamp" printed large and clear on Disowned Ancestor in the same deck with actual swamps acting as proxies for something else.
If you arent using pretty ones like this, then no. No proxies. That being said I have printed plenty of decks off of that site and they are wonderful for casual, playtesting, and getting new people into the mtg/legacy scene. I introduced so many people to magic with The Gate its not even funny.
As many of already stated, I think proxies (of decent or higher quality) are perfectly fine in all manners except sanctioned competitive tournaments.
As far as those that take offense to people using proxies in casual or unsanctioned games(with the exception of poor quality, sharpie scribbled proxies), I think it is a tad bit asinine to be against it simply for the reasoning that you had to pay for the cards and they didn't. The value of the card and the comfort of owning the actual card should be enough. If you are here to play a game of magic, and the opponent has good quality proxies, then it shouldn't matter if they are real or not. It shouldn't have any affect on either you or your opponent's enjoyment of the game. Getting beat by a proxy deck is no different than getting beat by a $5000 legacy deck.
Also, for those of us that aren't made of money or have wealthy parents feeding our hobbies (which I am positive is a fairly sizable chunk of the MTG population), proxying is the only logical way of testing a deck out in real life without spending insane amounts of money for cardboard that you may decide you don't even like using.
In sanctioned events, proxies should be a very rare thing because they're only issued by the HJ to represent a card that's been damaged during play in this event.
In EDH & testing, I have no problem with it if they're testing a deck change or are proxying to avoid moving cards between decks. I very much prefer good looking proxies so that I don't have to be looking across the table & asking "Is that 5 of Spades a Stoneforge this game or a Tundra?"
In any format, if they're not going to buy the cards & just want to proxy a $$$ deck, screw them. They need to put some effort into it.
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I have proxied 6 different legacy decks that I'm not planning to ever actually buy. the proxies are printed with a laser printer and as long as you don't take them out of the sleeve look pretty much identical to the real thing. I play these proxy decks against each other together with friends, making us able to play a format that would normally not be accessible to us. I've occasionally played against people with actual decks with my proxies, of course telling them beforehand that I'm proxying; they're always more than happy just to be able to play their deck.
Proxies should always be immediately clear of what cards they represent, if people have to ask what it is then it's already wrong. And of course, I would never try to play these cards at a sanctioned event; as soon as prizes are on the line, having made the actual investment should be a requirement
People who play with proxies don't value the cards, and thus the game enough for me to want to play with them. There seems to be a correlation between # of proxies and the quality of the player, and thus the games that come from them.
Save of course people who do own the cards, expensive cards, and don't like swapping them between multiple decks (ie in commander mostly).
Well that is a ridiculous statement. You have to realize that there are people who cannot afford to own $250+ cards because their situation doesn't allow it. These kind of statements are elitist and the along with the Reserved List, will lead to the decline of the format.
Proxies are perfectly fine so long as they are in place of expensive or hard to find cards, and the person is working towards acquiring the cards. Proxies allow people to try out the format and builds the player base. I understand not allowing proxies in a GP or large tournament, because WotC is a business, but proxies should be allowed in LGSs.
So WOTC when it comes to large tournaments and GPs is a business, but your game store isn't? Both support a community and supply access to cards, space, and charge money to play and have prize support. You can't be serious that an LGS should let their players say 'yeah I'm never buying this card from you, but I'm going to try and win more money than my entry fee using it--also the card is fake.'
Maybe if an LGS had a rental policy, but we all know why that wouldn't work out.
My opinion on the quality of games with proxied/non-proxie players is elitist, but I dont think that everyone is entitled to have everything they want, and that those that work for it appreciate it more. Sorry if I'm arguing with someone who isn't old enough to understand that yet. (can't see age on the internet)
So WOTC when it comes to large tournaments and GPs is a business, but your game store isn't? Both support a community and supply access to cards, space, and charge money to play and have prize support. You can't be serious that an LGS should let their players say 'yeah I'm never buying this card from you, but I'm going to try and win more money than my entry fee using it--also the card is fake.'
Maybe if an LGS had a rental policy, but we all know why that wouldn't work out.
My opinion on the quality of games with proxied/non-proxie players is elitist, but I dont think that everyone is entitled to have everything they want, and that those that work for it appreciate it more. Sorry if I'm arguing with someone who isn't old enough to understand that yet. (can't see age on the internet)
Im not a huge defender of regular proxy tournaments, but your position is just absurd and ignorant.
Having more expendable money is not in any way connected to working harder for it. You'd have to be pretty sheltered to think that it is.
And from a business perspective, unlike WOTC a LGS has no expectation that you'll buy a card from them specifically. Especially since most small LGS's dont have tons of super rare eternal cards in stock anyway. If they need to make more money off a tournament they can just raise the entry fee to compensate themselves.
Absurd and ignorant is such an exaggerated characterization of what I said. Originally, I mean to say that the quality of play with games involving proxies is far lower in my experience than without proxy. Its just my experience, and my logic is that people with the proxies are much less dedicated to the specific deck they're piloting. I *think* its because people who own a single real deck master it, but a lot of proxiers flit around...maybe they commit and the play experience and talent with the deck goes up when they settle on one (and hopefully end up owning it). Thats that fully articulated idea, sorry if it still doesn't jive.
You're correct that LGS dont expect people to buy all their cards at the place they play at (would be ideal for shop owners, but yeah right). Proxies though, devalue the idea of a collectable card game--which is impossible for Wizards to endorse in any way (from their point of view, and I agree with it). Even that Vintage draft they did--they didn't print or proxy anything. I think the reserved list sucks, but I'm not really going to argue about what Wizards should do about it, I want cards in peoples hands and access to eternal staples for all too.
I don't think proxies should be anything but tools (to test drive cards before purchasing at home), not in shops or any sanctioned event--ever. Everything else justifying otherwise, just seems like rationalization.
I own everything I need for my legacy deck except dual lands, wastlands, and goyfs. The other ~$1,000 or so I own.
When people let me proxy the cards I don't, we get to play legacy together. When they don't, we don't play legacy together. It's really as simple as that.
I have no intention at this time of buying those cards, as the amount of use out of them isn't enough to justify the cost. So I regularly use proxies of ~10 expensive cards I don't want to buy because I own the rest of the expensive cards for the deck and want to play it. I don't see a problem with it.
As for proxy tournaments, sure why not? They can't be Wizards sanctioned I don't think, but if people want to run them let them do it. Really doesn't matter either way.
I own everything I need for my legacy deck except dual lands, wastlands, and goyfs. The other ~$1,000 or so I own.
When people let me proxy the cards I don't, we get to play legacy together. When they don't, we don't play legacy together. It's really as simple as that.
I have no intention at this time of buying those cards, as the amount of use out of them isn't enough to justify the cost. So I regularly use proxies of ~10 expensive cards I don't want to buy because I own the rest of the expensive cards for the deck and want to play it. I don't see a problem with it.
As for proxy tournaments, sure why not? They can't be Wizards sanctioned I don't think, but if people want to run them let them do it. Really doesn't matter either way.
Are you talking about casual games or tournament events in which you use proxies?
Casual. Some guys still don't want you to use proxies when playing casually.
The poll is far too black and white so I won't vote, but here are my thoughts. They break down by constructed format.
Vintage: Unsanctioned events with up to 10 proxies with the ability to buy an additional 5 is typically fine. I wouldn't be sad to see those allowable numbers go down. I only ever have to proxy power, and for my tastes that sometimes means just 3 cards (Emerald, Jet, Lotus). Although, I just remembered I've also proxied Time Vault. And I'm fine with unlimited proxying for the purposes of testing with teammates and/or friends.
Legacy: No proxies in any event where I'm using a DCI number. Unlimited proxies when testing.
Modern: See Legacy, but add in that if I'm doing a pick-up game at an LGS I'll want to be alerted beforehand whether it's someone's "test" deck with proxies.
Standard: See Modern.
EDH: No proxies. There are simply far too many options available.
Proxies are a joke in tournament play. If you can't afford to buy the cardboard, don't bother playing. This is an expensive hobby and it shouldn't be accessible without some monetary commitment. Depending on format, that can be more or less.
I'm a fan of unlimited proxies in vintage tournaments despite being fully powered now and being able to conceivably play an entire 75 proxy free. Not in any other format though at least when it comes to tournaments. In casual play I couldn't care less if you use proxies or not because a sharpied underground sea is the same as a revised underground sea when no money is on the line.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
My only concern with proxies was with entrance fees. Unlimited proxies and you pay more then the person who is playing without any. I find it increases the prize pool while encouraging those that play to eventually own the cards. And since that additional cost goes towards prize it makes that achieveable.
Beyond that slight grievance, I'm pro-proxy
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
At my LGS just about all our play groups, (legacy, standard, EDH) have the same idea about proxies. They're allowed, but there's the expectation that if you're proxing something you should be able acquire it with relative ease at some point or another, either through buying outright, or you have sufficient trade value and card power to trade for the cards. It's a little unfair to most play groups if you're playing 5c good stuff in EDH and proxied up all the dual lands, fetch lands, and some other $100+ cards when you're collection is strictly standard and you don't plan to pursue the cards.
Also with my friends playing legacy, we've moved from EDH and standard as our mainly played format, to modern, and now we're moving to legacy for more stability and an overall better experience. As one can imagine with little value in our collection it's hard to move to legacy, so we play proxied, but we're actively trading and acquiring other cards to trade for staples and dual lands.
Also the proxies can't be sharpied over a land. At least spend the time on printed color proxies I hate playing against a proxied tiny leaders deck with sharpied lands and being like 'whats that, what's this, who's that...'
In legacy and vintage, I'd say that proxying a portion of the deck is fine. I really just care about getting a chance to play some Eternal formats for once. In standard and modern, I'd say no proxies whatsoever. (Maybe for more expensive cards in Modern like Goyf or Clique)
My local FNM doesn't allow proxies (like all FNMs should) so I don't use them. I try to either build within my limits, or assemble the cards I need to build a previously tested deck. I usually only use proxies when doing a gauntlet for legacy, or playing against one of the eternal players at our LGS. I'd say that if you're going to use a proxy legacy or vintage deck, no proxies of cards above $20-50 in value. Proxying those Wastelands and Underground Seas that you plan to buy is okay, but proxying a Delver or a Brainstorm is just...ugh.
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Current Decks Built: URGAnimar Combo (Duel EDH)URG UBRThraximundar Control (Duel EDH)UBR
Building: WGBogles (Modern)WG BROlivia, Mobilized for Shenanigans (Duel EDH)BR RGRadha Land Destruction (Duel EDH)RG
As long as the proxies are good. If a card looks the same and plays the same as the real thing what does it matter to the game, there's no difference. All i care about is if people can play the game. That said I like real cards.
The local store that I used to play at (I don't have the time or money to play currently) had a rule for modern (possibly for legacy as well, can't remember well) that was 5 cents extra for each proxy in the deck, so it's a lot cheaper than buying the card and if you're trying new decks out could be nice or if you were just getting into the format to test high dollar cards, but would deter from someone proxying massive amounts of their deck, especially if they're planning on playing the deck for a decent amount of time.
You should be able to pay to proxy your deck , have the coin enter a prize pool, so that anyone who wants to drop $20 occasionally to play MTG and proxy much of their deck or change and play different decks occasionally can, and then everyone benefits from people doing this. I could proxy for instance a Mana Crypt to play Vintage, and it'd make sense to do this financially since I'd have to play over 100 times to make up the difference in cost, but I would also buy Mana Crypt just because I like collecting cards, and if I won a prize pool of proxy money from other people, yes I would use the store credit to do guess what? buy magic cards. so I don't see what the problem of proxies is. it drives collector demand. it makes the format more enticing for new people to play. it benefits everyone.
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Proxies are perfectly fine so long as they are in place of expensive or hard to find cards, and the person is working towards acquiring the cards. Proxies allow people to try out the format and builds the player base. I understand not allowing proxies in a GP or large tournament, because WotC is a business, but proxies should be allowed in LGSs.
Testing on Trice is no different then using proxies, but other then people whinging on players leaving after game 1, no one complains about using non sanctioned software.
It's silly to say if you don't own the card, you aren't serious about the game. Considering how many people would probably like to play, but cannot afford 3k for a good deck.
But, to be honest, I'm grateful to have a good income and have the luxury of buying whatever staples I want, and I recognize tons of people really like Magic in general but can't afford some of the cards (specially here in Argentina, they are super expensive), and I don't like playing against sub-optimal decks in general, because it givez you a bad scanning on how your deck truly performs. I tolerate proxies as long as I can feel the proxy user will eventually save money (or at least try) to buy the card. What I don't like is proxying in excess, because it's disgusting to play against 100 hundred cards faced down with sharpied paper on them.
When testing some new deck. - You are either playtesting a new deck, or planning on aquiring the cards (no rush, as long as you're trying).
Cards are in other decks. - This is of course allowed, you shouldn't have to switch cards around just to play or test.
You should have proper proxies. - No sharpies on pieces of paper, you'll get mocked if the proxies are very bad.
Proxies are a usefull tool. I am a poor student, so I have some proxied decks that I am slowly completing. Those that I don't like after playtesting, I take apart. I don't have proxied decks that I have no intention of completing.
I also can't afford several of some expensive commander cards, so I own 1 and proxy for the rest. Though I try to vary my commander decks a bit, no need to play the same cards in them all just because it's the most powerful. Unfortunately, some cards are too good and unique (sylvan library as a random example)
I have a savage collection. Until recently I trotted my expensive cards out with reckless abandon whenever I felt like it. But I have "lost" about 10 dual lands over the last 20 years. I can't say for sure that they were stolen. Or lost. Or what. But I will say that expensive cards have a way of disappearing if you use them enough no matter how careful you are. I simply cannot afford to replace them anymore. I will happily buy lots of inkjet cartridges instead.
But take pride in your proxies, friends. I know a fellow who has up to two card names crossed out and a third crammed in on the bottom of basic lands. I know another who writes nearly, but not entirely unintelligible phrases on card backs to tell him what a card is, but it does nothing for anyone else. Jason, my old friend, if you are reading this, having to translate "g/w" and "dive top" into card text really limits everyone else's immersion into the game. A third person actually has "Swamp" printed large and clear on Disowned Ancestor in the same deck with actual swamps acting as proxies for something else.
If you arent using pretty ones like this, then no. No proxies. That being said I have printed plenty of decks off of that site and they are wonderful for casual, playtesting, and getting new people into the mtg/legacy scene. I introduced so many people to magic with The Gate its not even funny.
As far as those that take offense to people using proxies in casual or unsanctioned games(with the exception of poor quality, sharpie scribbled proxies), I think it is a tad bit asinine to be against it simply for the reasoning that you had to pay for the cards and they didn't. The value of the card and the comfort of owning the actual card should be enough. If you are here to play a game of magic, and the opponent has good quality proxies, then it shouldn't matter if they are real or not. It shouldn't have any affect on either you or your opponent's enjoyment of the game. Getting beat by a proxy deck is no different than getting beat by a $5000 legacy deck.
Also, for those of us that aren't made of money or have wealthy parents feeding our hobbies (which I am positive is a fairly sizable chunk of the MTG population), proxying is the only logical way of testing a deck out in real life without spending insane amounts of money for cardboard that you may decide you don't even like using.
In EDH & testing, I have no problem with it if they're testing a deck change or are proxying to avoid moving cards between decks. I very much prefer good looking proxies so that I don't have to be looking across the table & asking "Is that 5 of Spades a Stoneforge this game or a Tundra?"
In any format, if they're not going to buy the cards & just want to proxy a $$$ deck, screw them. They need to put some effort into it.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
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Proxies should always be immediately clear of what cards they represent, if people have to ask what it is then it's already wrong. And of course, I would never try to play these cards at a sanctioned event; as soon as prizes are on the line, having made the actual investment should be a requirement
So WOTC when it comes to large tournaments and GPs is a business, but your game store isn't? Both support a community and supply access to cards, space, and charge money to play and have prize support. You can't be serious that an LGS should let their players say 'yeah I'm never buying this card from you, but I'm going to try and win more money than my entry fee using it--also the card is fake.'
Maybe if an LGS had a rental policy, but we all know why that wouldn't work out.
My opinion on the quality of games with proxied/non-proxie players is elitist, but I dont think that everyone is entitled to have everything they want, and that those that work for it appreciate it more. Sorry if I'm arguing with someone who isn't old enough to understand that yet. (can't see age on the internet)
Im not a huge defender of regular proxy tournaments, but your position is just absurd and ignorant.
Having more expendable money is not in any way connected to working harder for it. You'd have to be pretty sheltered to think that it is.
And from a business perspective, unlike WOTC a LGS has no expectation that you'll buy a card from them specifically. Especially since most small LGS's dont have tons of super rare eternal cards in stock anyway. If they need to make more money off a tournament they can just raise the entry fee to compensate themselves.
You're correct that LGS dont expect people to buy all their cards at the place they play at (would be ideal for shop owners, but yeah right). Proxies though, devalue the idea of a collectable card game--which is impossible for Wizards to endorse in any way (from their point of view, and I agree with it). Even that Vintage draft they did--they didn't print or proxy anything. I think the reserved list sucks, but I'm not really going to argue about what Wizards should do about it, I want cards in peoples hands and access to eternal staples for all too.
I don't think proxies should be anything but tools (to test drive cards before purchasing at home), not in shops or any sanctioned event--ever. Everything else justifying otherwise, just seems like rationalization.
When people let me proxy the cards I don't, we get to play legacy together. When they don't, we don't play legacy together. It's really as simple as that.
I have no intention at this time of buying those cards, as the amount of use out of them isn't enough to justify the cost. So I regularly use proxies of ~10 expensive cards I don't want to buy because I own the rest of the expensive cards for the deck and want to play it. I don't see a problem with it.
As for proxy tournaments, sure why not? They can't be Wizards sanctioned I don't think, but if people want to run them let them do it. Really doesn't matter either way.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Casual. Some guys still don't want you to use proxies when playing casually.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Vintage: Unsanctioned events with up to 10 proxies with the ability to buy an additional 5 is typically fine. I wouldn't be sad to see those allowable numbers go down. I only ever have to proxy power, and for my tastes that sometimes means just 3 cards (Emerald, Jet, Lotus). Although, I just remembered I've also proxied Time Vault. And I'm fine with unlimited proxying for the purposes of testing with teammates and/or friends.
Legacy: No proxies in any event where I'm using a DCI number. Unlimited proxies when testing.
Modern: See Legacy, but add in that if I'm doing a pick-up game at an LGS I'll want to be alerted beforehand whether it's someone's "test" deck with proxies.
Standard: See Modern.
EDH: No proxies. There are simply far too many options available.
Block: Don't play it so no thoughts.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Casual? Why not, who cares.
My Kamigawa cube.
My Mirage Cube
Currently Playing:
Retired
Beyond that slight grievance, I'm pro-proxy
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Also with my friends playing legacy, we've moved from EDH and standard as our mainly played format, to modern, and now we're moving to legacy for more stability and an overall better experience. As one can imagine with little value in our collection it's hard to move to legacy, so we play proxied, but we're actively trading and acquiring other cards to trade for staples and dual lands.
Also the proxies can't be sharpied over a land. At least spend the time on printed color proxies I hate playing against a proxied tiny leaders deck with sharpied lands and being like 'whats that, what's this, who's that...'
My local FNM doesn't allow proxies (like all FNMs should) so I don't use them. I try to either build within my limits, or assemble the cards I need to build a previously tested deck. I usually only use proxies when doing a gauntlet for legacy, or playing against one of the eternal players at our LGS. I'd say that if you're going to use a proxy legacy or vintage deck, no proxies of cards above $20-50 in value. Proxying those Wastelands and Underground Seas that you plan to buy is okay, but proxying a Delver or a Brainstorm is just...ugh.
Built:
URGAnimar Combo (Duel EDH)URG
UBRThraximundar Control (Duel EDH)UBR
Building:
WGBogles (Modern)WG
BROlivia, Mobilized for Shenanigans (Duel EDH)BR
RGRadha Land Destruction (Duel EDH)RG