I ran Phantasmal Image, and they're great. You can copy Nemesis, you can copy a lord, you can vial in as Emrakul or Griselbrand or whatever Reanimator drops in, you can copy Stoneforge to grab a Jitte, and so forth.
Coralhelm is nice though because the deck is otherwise short of things that can answer flying creatures.
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I think most of the issues people have with this card would be fixed if they simply changed the text from "As" to "When". If it was a when ability it would go on the stack and you could Stifle it or respond with removal. Really wonder why Wizards didn't make it a when.
Red could use some love. Hell, its needed some Eternal love since what, Grim Lavamancer? Lightning Bolt?
The biggest "recent" Red cards I can think of that had a reasonable impact on Eternal are Past In Flames and Faithless Looting. They're powerful cards, but they're also limited in what decks they can go into. Krenko is decent, but he only works in Goblins.
But yeah, Red, in terms of general utility cards, hasn't really gotten anything big for Legacy in quite a while. Though, to be fair, Lightning Bolt is so astoundingly good they're never going to print anything better than it.
I think most of the issues people have with this card would be fixed if they simply changed the text from "As" to "When". If it was a when ability it would go on the stack and you could Stifle it or respond with removal. Really wonder why Wizards didn't make it a when.
Because of that reason. They didn't want you basically "cheating" the card by doing that. It's similar to how Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle say "As," to make it so the opponent can't just activate it in response to them naming what it is.
Honestly, the better way to fix it would've simply been to have it only activate in a game where you have multiple opponents. Seriously, rewrite it like this:
"As True-Name Nemesis enters the battlefield, choose a player if you have two or more opponents.
True-Name Nemesis has protection from the chosen player."
Problem solved, and it keeps its functionality in multiplayer games.
1. Add more Golgari Charm to sideboard
2. ?????
3. PROFIT!!!
I'm trying roughly the same thing with 3 Toxic Deluge maindeck in a Toxic Junk deck I brewed up, and no, a resolved Deluge that kills a True-Name Nemesis does not always seal the game against Nemesis decks. I once killed a Nemesis and a Delver on Cockatrice with a resolved Deluge (it didn't kill any of my guys, so it was a blowout), then got two Nemeses to the face later and lost to them. If one Deluge doesn't cut it, then you will need a lot of Golgari Charms to contain Nemesis consistently.
That's funny, I was thinking the exact same thing.
What's better than 4 TNN, 8 TNN!........ woo?
That reminds me of all the times I faced off in Cockatrice against Nemesis-Phantasmal Image decks. Some of them were janky (Impluse maindeck, mono-blue), but fair decks basically lose to multiple Nemeses.
I'm trying roughly the same thing with 3 Toxic Deluge maindeck in a Toxic Junk deck I brewed up, and no, a resolved Deluge that kills a True-Name Nemesis does not always seal the game against Nemesis decks. I once killed a Nemesis and a Delver on Cockatrice with a resolved Deluge (it didn't kill any of my guys, so it was a blowout), then got two Nemeses to the face later and lost to them. If one Deluge doesn't cut it, then you will need a lot of Golgari Charms to contain Nemesis consistently.
That reminds me of all the times I faced off in Cockatrice against Nemesis-Phantasmal Image decks. Some of them were janky (Impluse maindeck, mono-blue), but fair decks basically lose to multiple Nemeses.
Have you tried zealous persecution? It has implications against elves, goblins, TNN, and sometimes delvers.
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
I think most of the issues people have with this card would be fixed if they simply changed the text from "As" to "When". If it was a when ability it would go on the stack and you could Stifle it or respond with removal. Really wonder why Wizards didn't make it a when.
Because god forbid some 1 damage burn spell could kill a 3 drop. It's the same reason revoker/needle, meddling mage, iona, teferi's moat, etc. etc. all say as they come into play. Because they want them to have their intended effect as they resolve and WotC doesn't change things that aren't broken in their eyes.
That merfolk list is wrong. The only way you can make that list worse is if you remove more silvergill adepts (adept is the best card in the deck or at least it was before they printed tarmofolk. Now it draws you towards tarmofolk too if you lack it. Vial at 3 and TNN in hand? Nice playing you fair deck.)
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
That reminds me of abrupt decay and DRS, just saying.
/flashback
The thing is those cards created new archtypes, it irrates me that TNN hurts alot of ground we've made in making legacy a more diverse format with fair and unfair options available. The card is also something that wotc says they hate: uninteractive. Blue doesn't need more hard to deal with threats in this format, it boggles my mind wotc decieded blue is the color of resilient threats.
I don't know whether the card is ban worthy of not, but I don't like it. Most of the players I know seem to think it's dumb. I hope it gets banned.
My guess is that the format will warp because of this, and warp a lot. TNN was everywhere at SCG: Providence yesterday. It's very difficult for a fair deck to keep up with it, TNN just obviates so many strategies that used to be incredibly important.
There are plenty of viable answers for TNN, from equipment, to board removal, to edicts and coming back around - full circle to blue to Llawan, Cephalid Empress. It's definitely a strong card, but I think the meta in general is capable of adapting to it efficiently.
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Certainly, I'm not saying the metagame that will result when TNN has settled in won't be recognizable as Legacy, nor even that it won't be as fun as the one now.
It will, however, look very different. Certainly not Mental Misstep-level different, but wildly different from what was even a month ago. Not much of what was true about fair deck matchups then is left standing.
Maybe when the dust settles there will be a place in the meta for prison decks! If combo takes a hit as the meta fills up with fair decks packing blue...
Maybe when the dust settles there will be a place in the meta for prison decks! If combo takes a hit as the meta fills up with fair decks packing blue...
The thing is, Combo decks are great AGAINST Nemesis, because what do they care for a 3-power 3-drop with no relevant abilities?
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As a Goblin player, I'm extremely dismayed by the card. People keep saying, "Just race it", but with the number of Patriot Delver decks springing up (especially in our Meta), a lot of times you can't race it because you can't keep anything on the board. And with a T1 or T2 Delver, you're going to lose the race.
I would be irritated with this card if it were non-blue; at least then you would have to splash blue to pack counterspells to protect it. By being blue, you can almost guarantee they'll have counterspells for whatever removal you have.
With this card, if you're playing a fair deck, it really seems like the options are "Board in enough hate against this one card that you can't function against any other deck", or "Play a different deck". Lovely.
Rather than complain about TNN, which is legitimately a tough card to deal with for a lot of decks, I'd like to have some discussion of reasonable answers for him that are good enough to at least consider running in the board. Preferably, mono-color answers, but multi-color answers work too.
There are probably others, those are just off the top of my head.
card is good, no doubt of that. Some of the above cards are conditional (discard, ect) and some don't really make the legacy cut despite being good cards. Others, on the other hand, are format staples in a ton of decks. TNN is far from unanswerable. And while he's annoying, and yeah, I agree kind of a dumb card, he is NOT going to break the format, or make fair decks "unplayable."
Fair decks are playable in a format with turn 1 emrakuls, TES, belcher, ANT. TNN shouldn't be killing you before turn 5, and if he does, he was win-more anyway.
And I'm not a TNN player, by the way. I play maverick (which has few answers, especially in GW), and Pox (which has literally 20 answers main-deck, and half the time doesn't let you get to 3 lands anyway).
Decks packing 4x TNN will discover that creature combat is largely handled and load up on combo hate. I see TNN as a straight-up power grab for blue.
And this is my problem with the card. Blue, of all things. Delver and Snapcaster were somewhat understandable in the color....but this guy takes "hyper efficient blue guy" to the next level, with absolutely no need to be there whatsoever.
I'm all for Pox coming back. Pox is a cool, weird deck with a lot of roots and hardcore fans. I'm just disappointed TNN is the price we have to pay for that to happen. The card is just awful.
It's strange, I've never felt such distaste for a legal card, and never thought I would.
I'm all for Pox coming back. Pox is a cool, weird deck with a lot of roots and hardcore fans. I'm just disappointed TNN is the price we have to pay for that to happen. The card is just awful.
It's strange, I've never felt such distaste for a legal card, and never thought I would.
it is kind of awful.
My honest prediction is that TNN will be everywhere for a while, and then it will fade away. One of the reasons is because TNN only belongs in fair decks, and as has been said, TNN is only good against fair decks... so the mirror match would be a terrible thing... the more the card shows up, the fewer other people will want to play it, and it will be somewhat self-defeating.
Rather than complain about TNN, which is legitimately a tough card to deal with for a lot of decks, I'd like to have some discussion of reasonable answers for him that are good enough to at least consider running in the board. Preferably, mono-color answers, but multi-color answers work too.
Eh, TNN is still a creature and very vulnerable to anti-creature strategies already run in legacy.
I mean, I don't see how this is as much/more of a "fair deck hoser" than batterskull is/was.
The thing is a lot of the effects that deal with TNN are extremely narrow and are pretty bad against anything else, as apposed to Batterskull where artifact removal is actually good against quite a lot of decks in the format so you should be running it anyways. Plus there are some colors where the answers are pretty horrible or nonexistent, and even in the colors that have answers for TNN, some of them are just horrible to play in creature decks such as the various Black and White sweepers.
Really the only cards that are any good in the creature decks are Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution as the other cards can kill you own creatures which is counter productive. And really the best way of dealing with TNN is to be proactive with discard or reactive with counter magic.
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Yeah, the deck is Lord-tastic...
He just vials in two lords and a TNN and it's basically game.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
That's funny, I was thinking the exact same thing.
What's better than 4 TNN, 8 TNN!........ woo?
Coralhelm is nice though because the deck is otherwise short of things that can answer flying creatures.
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RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
The biggest "recent" Red cards I can think of that had a reasonable impact on Eternal are Past In Flames and Faithless Looting. They're powerful cards, but they're also limited in what decks they can go into. Krenko is decent, but he only works in Goblins.
But yeah, Red, in terms of general utility cards, hasn't really gotten anything big for Legacy in quite a while. Though, to be fair, Lightning Bolt is so astoundingly good they're never going to print anything better than it.
Because of that reason. They didn't want you basically "cheating" the card by doing that. It's similar to how Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle say "As," to make it so the opponent can't just activate it in response to them naming what it is.
Honestly, the better way to fix it would've simply been to have it only activate in a game where you have multiple opponents. Seriously, rewrite it like this:
"As True-Name Nemesis enters the battlefield, choose a player if you have two or more opponents.
True-Name Nemesis has protection from the chosen player."
Problem solved, and it keeps its functionality in multiplayer games.
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Tiny Leaders Overlord
I'm trying roughly the same thing with 3 Toxic Deluge maindeck in a Toxic Junk deck I brewed up, and no, a resolved Deluge that kills a True-Name Nemesis does not always seal the game against Nemesis decks. I once killed a Nemesis and a Delver on Cockatrice with a resolved Deluge (it didn't kill any of my guys, so it was a blowout), then got two Nemeses to the face later and lost to them. If one Deluge doesn't cut it, then you will need a lot of Golgari Charms to contain Nemesis consistently.
That reminds me of all the times I faced off in Cockatrice against Nemesis-Phantasmal Image decks. Some of them were janky (Impluse maindeck, mono-blue), but fair decks basically lose to multiple Nemeses.
Have you tried zealous persecution? It has implications against elves, goblins, TNN, and sometimes delvers.
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Mythic rares are fine.
Because god forbid some 1 damage burn spell could kill a 3 drop. It's the same reason revoker/needle, meddling mage, iona, teferi's moat, etc. etc. all say as they come into play. Because they want them to have their intended effect as they resolve and WotC doesn't change things that aren't broken in their eyes.
That merfolk list is wrong. The only way you can make that list worse is if you remove more silvergill adepts (adept is the best card in the deck or at least it was before they printed tarmofolk. Now it draws you towards tarmofolk too if you lack it. Vial at 3 and TNN in hand? Nice playing you fair deck.)
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The thing is those cards created new archtypes, it irrates me that TNN hurts alot of ground we've made in making legacy a more diverse format with fair and unfair options available. The card is also something that wotc says they hate: uninteractive. Blue doesn't need more hard to deal with threats in this format, it boggles my mind wotc decieded blue is the color of resilient threats.
My guess is that the format will warp because of this, and warp a lot. TNN was everywhere at SCG: Providence yesterday. It's very difficult for a fair deck to keep up with it, TNN just obviates so many strategies that used to be incredibly important.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
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It will, however, look very different. Certainly not Mental Misstep-level different, but wildly different from what was even a month ago. Not much of what was true about fair deck matchups then is left standing.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
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RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
The thing is, Combo decks are great AGAINST Nemesis, because what do they care for a 3-power 3-drop with no relevant abilities?
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Decks packing 4x TNN will discover that creature combat is largely handled and load up on combo hate. I see TNN as a straight-up power grab for blue.
I would be irritated with this card if it were non-blue; at least then you would have to splash blue to pack counterspells to protect it. By being blue, you can almost guarantee they'll have counterspells for whatever removal you have.
With this card, if you're playing a fair deck, it really seems like the options are "Board in enough hate against this one card that you can't function against any other deck", or "Play a different deck". Lovely.
so far, I have:
zealous persecution
golgari charm
massacre
infest
toxic deluge
black sun's zenith
supreme verdict
damnation
wrath of god
runed halo (tutorable with enlightened tutor, by the way)
edict effects (liliana of the veil, smallpox, innocent blood)
engineered explosives
ratchet bomb
pernicious deed
engineered plague
nausea
shrivel
terminus
breaking point (for a burn deck or maybe goblins)
nevermore
force of will
daze
counterspell
thoughtseize
inquisition of kozilek
cabal therapy
There are probably others, those are just off the top of my head.
card is good, no doubt of that. Some of the above cards are conditional (discard, ect) and some don't really make the legacy cut despite being good cards. Others, on the other hand, are format staples in a ton of decks. TNN is far from unanswerable. And while he's annoying, and yeah, I agree kind of a dumb card, he is NOT going to break the format, or make fair decks "unplayable."
Fair decks are playable in a format with turn 1 emrakuls, TES, belcher, ANT. TNN shouldn't be killing you before turn 5, and if he does, he was win-more anyway.
And I'm not a TNN player, by the way. I play maverick (which has few answers, especially in GW), and Pox (which has literally 20 answers main-deck, and half the time doesn't let you get to 3 lands anyway).
And this is my problem with the card. Blue, of all things. Delver and Snapcaster were somewhat understandable in the color....but this guy takes "hyper efficient blue guy" to the next level, with absolutely no need to be there whatsoever.
It's strange, I've never felt such distaste for a legal card, and never thought I would.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
it is kind of awful.
My honest prediction is that TNN will be everywhere for a while, and then it will fade away. One of the reasons is because TNN only belongs in fair decks, and as has been said, TNN is only good against fair decks... so the mirror match would be a terrible thing... the more the card shows up, the fewer other people will want to play it, and it will be somewhat self-defeating.
Eh, TNN is still a creature and very vulnerable to anti-creature strategies already run in legacy.
All creatures are equals in the eyes of Humility. Any global board wipe effect ruins him and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Night of Soul's Betrayal also laughs in this rogue's face.
I mean, I don't see how this is as much/more of a "fair deck hoser" than batterskull is/was.
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The thing is a lot of the effects that deal with TNN are extremely narrow and are pretty bad against anything else, as apposed to Batterskull where artifact removal is actually good against quite a lot of decks in the format so you should be running it anyways. Plus there are some colors where the answers are pretty horrible or nonexistent, and even in the colors that have answers for TNN, some of them are just horrible to play in creature decks such as the various Black and White sweepers.
Really the only cards that are any good in the creature decks are Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution as the other cards can kill you own creatures which is counter productive. And really the best way of dealing with TNN is to be proactive with discard or reactive with counter magic.