WHO is still entering this format at these prices? :|
Let's be real here, basically no one is. This is completely unsustainable and Legacy is very very quickly heading to join Vintage.
That's not true at all, the format is growing more now than it ever has. This also happens to be why we are seeing the price increases. SCG attendance is evident of this, but at a local level its increasing too. Withing a 3hr drive radius, just in 2014 two stores starting doing regular Duel for 40 Dual events, which DEMAND an attendance of at least 150 people to even break even and at my LGS monthly 1k, every month there are about 3-5 people who are attending their first legacy tournament.
I think one thing that could help budget players a lot is getting friends to pool cards and/or just borrowing cards from legacy vets. I'd gladly lend out a set of duals/wastes/etc I am not using that day if it means another person is playing legacy.
If this appreciation continues, and you don't have the money in-hand to buy the staples you know you'll need, the conventional wisdom of saving up rather than financing on credit from a bank (albeit not using CC long-term and paying the bill in full with an installment loan at lower interest after getting 1-2 months free float + cash-rebate on CC) simply will no longer apply. Better to pay interest than to save for a few months and have to pay triple for the cards.
WHO is still entering this format at these prices? :|
Let's be real here, basically no one is. This is completely unsustainable and Legacy is very very quickly heading to join Vintage.
That's not true at all, the format is growing more now than it ever has. This also happens to be why we are seeing the price increases. SCG attendance is evident of this, but at a local level its increasing too. Withing a 3hr drive radius, just in 2014 two stores starting doing regular Duel for 40 Dual events, which DEMAND an attendance of at least 150 people to even break even and at my LGS monthly 1k, every month there are about 3-5 people who are attending their first legacy tournament.
I think one thing that could help budget players a lot is getting friends to pool cards and/or just borrowing cards from legacy vets. I'd gladly lend out a set of duals/wastes/etc I am not using that day if it means another person is playing legacy.
Ok, so it's growing near you, but with a ever dwindling supply of cards, Legacy is in a bubble, it will pop, sooner than i bet any person is expecting. I'm glad my store does Proxy tournies (Next one if for a Tabernacle of Pendervale)
I really like Legacy but it's not going to stick around, it can't with these prices and a ever decreasing supply of must have cards.
Ok, so it's growing near you, but with a ever dwindling supply of cards, Legacy is in a bubble, it will pop, sooner than i bet any person is expecting. I'm glad my store does Proxy tournies (Next one if for a Tabernacle of Pendervale)
I really like Legacy but it's not going to stick around, it can't with these prices and a ever decreasing supply of must have cards.
Where exactly are you drawing your assumption from that Legacy is in a bubble? Also, even if it were, what do you think would happen if it were to "pop"? Last I heard, tons of people "would join Legacy if only it didn't cost so much." People keep trying to sell the idea that if Legacy prices were to drop (which I don't even see happening), the format would just die. Newsflash: most Legacy players are playing Legacy because they like playing Legacy. Why would I suddenly cease to enjoy Legacy if *gasp* my duals plummeted to...the price they were a few years ago?
The thing is, people keep trying to sell this idea that Legacy is in a bubble and that said bubble will kill it. How? These are not subprime mortgages. I don't owe the bank hundreds of thousands of dollars. The play value of my duals is literally unrelated to the price it is selling for online.
Ok, so it's growing near you, but with a ever dwindling supply of cards, Legacy is in a bubble, it will pop, sooner than i bet any person is expecting. I'm glad my store does Proxy tournies (Next one if for a Tabernacle of Pendervale)
I really like Legacy but it's not going to stick around, it can't with these prices and a ever decreasing supply of must have cards.
Its not just growing near me though, its growing everywhere. Look at the attendance of SCG, GP, BoM, etneral weekend etc. Its ever increasing. Legacy has a ceiling of the number of players that can play reserved list cards, but it is not a bubble. There is no "popping" that will happen. Will it stop, or greatly slow in its growing at some point? Yes, it has to unless the reserved list policy changes or everyone plays budget decks. But the demand for legacy is huge for every player that sells out, another 2 buy in. Eventually, that ratio will just get decreased to a 1 to 1 ratio.
Modern prices aren't that far off legacy's and if you haven't noticed so any "popping" that could happen in legacy seems equally likely to happen with modern seeing that WotC reprints have had basicallyno effecton theprices.
Legacy is growing, and like someone said, so many people want to get in but cant quite afford it. If for some reason prices dropped, they would get all bought up.
Modern prices aren't that far off legacy's and if you haven't noticed so any "popping" that could happen in legacy seems equally likely to happen with modern seeing that WotC reprints have had basicallyno effecton theprices.
Modern Masters doesn't compare to normal sets though, they said all along it was a small print run. Look at Thoughtseize for a better example - that was $70 before Theros, now you can get the new copies for less than $20.
If Legacy card prices do drop, it will only be temporary. All the people who have been wanting to get into Legacy will take the chance to buy in, and then the upward trend starts over again. It's just a question of how much it drops before a lot of people decide to buy.
Modern Masters doesn't compare to normal sets though, they said all along it was a small print run. Look at Thoughtseize for a better example - that was $70 before Theros, now you can get the new copies for less than $20.
True, my point is, for all WotC promises and (small) efforts to reprint staples, thoughtseize and shocklands are they only card they have lowered in price effectively with reprints since the announcement of modern. And its been what 3(?) years since moderns conception? Some other cards like path, finks, jtms, etc they kind of stopped the price creep, but did not really do anything for reducing the price.
Modern Masters doesn't compare to normal sets though, they said all along it was a small print run. Look at Thoughtseize for a better example - that was $70 before Theros, now you can get the new copies for less than $20.
True, my point is, for all WotC promises and (small) efforts to reprint staples, thoughtseize and shocklands are they only card they have lowered in price effectively with reprints since the announcement of modern. And its been what 3(?) years since moderns conception? Some other cards like path, finks, jtms, etc they kind of stopped the price creep, but did not really do anything for reducing the price.
That's a fair point, but they also work on new sets 2-3 years ahead of time, and the prices have only started getting out of hand pretty recently. With only a set every three months plus one or two misc. products a year they can't exactly put new copies out on the market quick enough to respond to price spikes. Even if the idea of just sticking a reprint into next month's set was something WotC would consider, there's still the matter of putting too many powerful Modern staples into Standard at once.
The best option is probably stuff like Remand in the new Duel Deck, but again there's only one of those a year and they can't predict what's going to spike by the time it goes on sale. As of today that Remand was selling for $10 compared to the original at 18.
That's a fair point, but they also work on new sets 2-3 years ahead of time, and the prices have only started getting out of hand pretty recently. With only a set every three months plus one or two misc. products a year they can't exactly put new copies out on the market quick enough to respond to price spikes. Even if the idea of just sticking a reprint into next month's set was something WotC would consider, there's still the matter of putting too many powerful Modern staples into Standard at once.
The best option is probably stuff like Remand in the new Duel Deck, but again there's only one of those a year and they can't predict what's going to spike by the time it goes on sale. As of today that Remand was selling for $10 compared to the original at 18.
This is exactly the issue. They are always going to be 2-3 years behind on reprints, and they have demonstrated that they will take a very conservative approach to reprints for the standard issue you described, but also just cause they don't want "upset people" who already own the cards. So I don't see any reason to believe that future reprints WotC does will have greater effects than reprints they have already done.
Personally I'm struggling to find decently priced Wastelands and Stoneforge Mystics. How has Goyf shot up to $200 in the last 2 months? It was still at $120 in January. I'm trying to break into the format, but I really have to budget myself, I can only spend so much each month.
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Undeground Sea went to $250 a few weeks back, and Volcanic Island just jumped to $300 this past week. I'm scared to check the prices of other blue duals. Wastelands are over $100 now.
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Personally I'm struggling to find decently priced Wastelands and Stoneforge Mystics. How has Goyf shot up to $200 in the last 2 months? It was still at $120 in January. I'm trying to break into the format, but I really have to budget myself, I can only spend so much each month.
IMHO, I think legacy price increases are only a problem for casual fans of the format. If you treat legacy as a serious almost stock-like investment i.e. pro players and collectors, then sky high prices make a lot of sense. Despite the constant ripping of the reserved list, it actually reinforces a good reminder, that casual fans should not buy legacy cards for fun or just the game (w/o expecting to spend serious $). As a casual modern player I wish the legacy prices were cheaper but since its so expensive I never have 2 worry about buying bits and pieces of legacy decks.
Excluding casual players from playing whether intentionally or unintentionally due to cost sounds pretty elitist IMHO. Do you want no one to play with?
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Excluding casual players from playing whether intentionally or unintentionally due to cost sounds pretty elitist IMHO. Do you want no one to play with?
Unintentional exclusion is not elitism. Intentional exclusion certainly is. If you're trying to argue that everyone who simply would like to play Legacy should have the same economic opportunity to do so, then you've gone off the deep end my friend. I would love to own a Rolex, but I can't afford one. Does the simple notion that I would like one mean that the Rolex dealer network should allow me to purchase one for the price of a Timex? Ludicrous argument, right?
Let's be real here, basically no one is. This is completely unsustainable and Legacy is very very quickly heading to join Vintage.
That's not true at all, the format is growing more now than it ever has. This also happens to be why we are seeing the price increases. SCG attendance is evident of this, but at a local level its increasing too. Withing a 3hr drive radius, just in 2014 two stores starting doing regular Duel for 40 Dual events, which DEMAND an attendance of at least 150 people to even break even and at my LGS monthly 1k, every month there are about 3-5 people who are attending their first legacy tournament.
I think one thing that could help budget players a lot is getting friends to pool cards and/or just borrowing cards from legacy vets. I'd gladly lend out a set of duals/wastes/etc I am not using that day if it means another person is playing legacy.
WTF I was just thinking of buying two last night too and they were like 12 dollars....
I am actually a bit pissed now. At least I have two.
Edit- Looking at SCG they are out of stock at on NM at 29.99 I think they rose their prices.
Edit - Again how I am supposed to save up for cards when they do this....
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Ok, so it's growing near you, but with a ever dwindling supply of cards, Legacy is in a bubble, it will pop, sooner than i bet any person is expecting. I'm glad my store does Proxy tournies (Next one if for a Tabernacle of Pendervale)
I really like Legacy but it's not going to stick around, it can't with these prices and a ever decreasing supply of must have cards.
Where exactly are you drawing your assumption from that Legacy is in a bubble? Also, even if it were, what do you think would happen if it were to "pop"? Last I heard, tons of people "would join Legacy if only it didn't cost so much." People keep trying to sell the idea that if Legacy prices were to drop (which I don't even see happening), the format would just die. Newsflash: most Legacy players are playing Legacy because they like playing Legacy. Why would I suddenly cease to enjoy Legacy if *gasp* my duals plummeted to...the price they were a few years ago?
The thing is, people keep trying to sell this idea that Legacy is in a bubble and that said bubble will kill it. How? These are not subprime mortgages. I don't owe the bank hundreds of thousands of dollars. The play value of my duals is literally unrelated to the price it is selling for online.
Its not just growing near me though, its growing everywhere. Look at the attendance of SCG, GP, BoM, etneral weekend etc. Its ever increasing. Legacy has a ceiling of the number of players that can play reserved list cards, but it is not a bubble. There is no "popping" that will happen. Will it stop, or greatly slow in its growing at some point? Yes, it has to unless the reserved list policy changes or everyone plays budget decks. But the demand for legacy is huge for every player that sells out, another 2 buy in. Eventually, that ratio will just get decreased to a 1 to 1 ratio.
Modern prices aren't that far off legacy's and if you haven't noticed so any "popping" that could happen in legacy seems equally likely to happen with modern seeing that WotC reprints have had basically no effect on the prices.
Modern Masters doesn't compare to normal sets though, they said all along it was a small print run. Look at Thoughtseize for a better example - that was $70 before Theros, now you can get the new copies for less than $20.
If Legacy card prices do drop, it will only be temporary. All the people who have been wanting to get into Legacy will take the chance to buy in, and then the upward trend starts over again. It's just a question of how much it drops before a lot of people decide to buy.
True, my point is, for all WotC promises and (small) efforts to reprint staples, thoughtseize and shocklands are they only card they have lowered in price effectively with reprints since the announcement of modern. And its been what 3(?) years since moderns conception? Some other cards like path, finks, jtms, etc they kind of stopped the price creep, but did not really do anything for reducing the price.
And, there goes my hope of building MUD in Legacy (though Wasteland and City of Traitors are expensive enough that that was little more than a dream).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That's a fair point, but they also work on new sets 2-3 years ahead of time, and the prices have only started getting out of hand pretty recently. With only a set every three months plus one or two misc. products a year they can't exactly put new copies out on the market quick enough to respond to price spikes. Even if the idea of just sticking a reprint into next month's set was something WotC would consider, there's still the matter of putting too many powerful Modern staples into Standard at once.
The best option is probably stuff like Remand in the new Duel Deck, but again there's only one of those a year and they can't predict what's going to spike by the time it goes on sale. As of today that Remand was selling for $10 compared to the original at 18.
This is exactly the issue. They are always going to be 2-3 years behind on reprints, and they have demonstrated that they will take a very conservative approach to reprints for the standard issue you described, but also just cause they don't want "upset people" who already own the cards. So I don't see any reason to believe that future reprints WotC does will have greater effects than reprints they have already done.
and modern has already reached or past some legacy decks. $1000-1200 for a few decks....
edit- what cards just spiked?
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Goyf has shot up because of Modern.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Vintage staples would argue otherwise though.
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Unintentional exclusion is not elitism. Intentional exclusion certainly is. If you're trying to argue that everyone who simply would like to play Legacy should have the same economic opportunity to do so, then you've gone off the deep end my friend. I would love to own a Rolex, but I can't afford one. Does the simple notion that I would like one mean that the Rolex dealer network should allow me to purchase one for the price of a Timex? Ludicrous argument, right?