I think that we have a lot longer before Legacy starts to suffer the same problems as Vintage:
These are just numbers pulled off the web, I don't know how accurate these are, but for the sake of this post lets assume these are vaguely right.
Alpha: 2.6 million
Beta: 7.3 million
Unlimited: 40 million
Revised: 500 million
If we assume that duals (which isn't necessarily the case for all decks, but a good example) are the bottleneck that people need to go through, we have a lot longer to go before we start running into vintage prices for cards.
Also, keep in mind that no matter how high the prices go there will still be a much bigger player base for Legacy because of the number of staple cards that were printed. Just because the cards get more expensive doesn't mean that there are fewer players, It just means that it's more expensive to start playing Legacy. I don't see any reason why the player base would shrink other than attrition of existing cards.
If the dual lands go up up up one should play with ravnica dual lands. Sure they dont work as well, but damn they still do the job. I am sure there are more candelabras than 3000, Just think of all the playsets roaching in boxes because the owner does not play magic nor has the inkling that he has a money maker there. Legacy might actually go down if those former players would either sell thier collections or start playing again. I cant stand the thought of stuff like that roaching in boxes. Kinda like when i see an old classic car the owner just lets it roach in the sun and does nothing to fix it up or sell it to someone who will fix it up!
cuz i think there are two versions of judge promo wasteland?
i want a judge promo version of force of will
Wasteland isn't on the reserved list (and neither is Force of Will), so printing it as a promo doesn't violate any rules.
However... previously, there was a loophole which allowed reserved-list cards to be reprinted as promos or in FTV sets; last year a change to the policy closed that loophole. Wizards now says that cards on the reserved list will never be reprinted again, ever, in any form or for any reason.
If the dual lands go up up up one should play with ravnica dual lands. Sure they dont work as well, but damn they still do the job. I am sure there are more candelabras than 3000, Just think of all the playsets roaching in boxes because the owner does not play magic nor has the inkling that he has a money maker there. Legacy might actually go down if those former players would either sell thier collections or start playing again. I cant stand the thought of stuff like that roaching in boxes. Kinda like when i see an old classic car the owner just lets it roach in the sun and does nothing to fix it up or sell it to someone who will fix it up!
Playing Ravnica duals is just asking to lose. Maybe as a 1 or 2-of if you can't buy that last dual you need, but just try playing a dual heavy deck with them.
I agree on a lot of thoughts in this thread and I just have to express my anger with the reserved list. The land base is already skyrocketing and wizards dont feel like reperinting any of the key lands.
My logic is - if wizards sells goods they make profit. If a player purchases goods on the secondary market Wizards does not make profit. So if the point of support existing/new players + making profit doesnt appeal to wizards as a company, they should either ban the lands or make a damn good functional printing of a an alternative.
Playing Ravnica duals is just asking to lose. Maybe as a 1 or 2-of if you can't buy that last dual you need, but just try playing a dual heavy deck with them.
You can't.
Agreed, I played MTGO and used ravnica duals and it was a horrible experience.
I still can't see why Wizards so forcefully maintains the Reserved List. I can understand that there were rocky times years back, but most people agree that the list itself is degenerative to the health of the eternal formats. Truth be told, even if they give a hoot to the collectors that stockpile playsets of duals, complete sets of the Beta, and the guys holding a playset of Black Lotus in their bank vaults, why is it not a good marketing endeavor to wither release staples in controlled bursts so that the format could support the booms we've been having and to help diminish the absurd price bursts of recent? The worst part of the whole issue with the staples is that we have to compete with hoarders, Vintage, Commander, and casual players in a single market for the same products at a fixed volume set years back when the game was just beginning, which is absurd with how many play it now. Ok, done with that rant
Seriously though, who wants the reserved list anymore? I'm not speaking of flooding the market with a massive amount of stock so that the game becomes worthless, but who wants to drop a new computers / TV worth of money for a deck?
There is a small contingent of players who this move would initially effect. Their collections would lose about 20-30% of their value assuming a mass reprint of everything. Then, as the format continues it's growth, their cards will be worth as much and more than before.
What keeps WotC from reprinting them is a combination of gutless executives and the knowledge that if they give people these cards, they'll have little reason to buy packs from the new set, when they can just cherry pick a few singles each year. Just my thoughts.
There is a small contingent of players who this move would initially effect. Their collections would lose about 20-30% of their value assuming a mass reprint of everything. Then, as the format continues it's growth, their cards will be worth as much and more than before.
What keeps WotC from reprinting them is a combination of gutless executives and the knowledge that if they give people these cards, they'll have little reason to buy packs from the new set, when they can just cherry pick a few singles each year. Just my thoughts.
I disagree completely. how would reprinting these cards affect people's decision to buy new sets? There are more people playing standard than there are legacy.
Actually, WOTC actually would profit from reprinting duals. Something say like in a FTV sets.
The true reason is that WOTC wants to focus on standard because legacy doesn't really force people to get new cards every 6 months. Standard does. Many people playing standard already feel that Legacy is unfair.
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Decks
UUU - Go Go Gadget Ninjitsu! (casual) GGG - Beatdown Elves (casual) (G/R)(G/R)(G/R) - Progenitus/Elfball (legacy) BBB - Crucible Pox (legacy) (B/G)(B/G)(B/G) - Eva Green (legacy)
I disagree completely. how would reprinting these cards affect people's decision to buy new sets? There are more people playing standard than there are legacy.
Actually, WOTC actually would profit from reprinting duals. Something say like in a FTV sets.
The true reason is that WOTC wants to focus on standard because legacy doesn't really force people to get new cards every 6 months. Standard does. Many people playing standard already feel that Legacy is unfair.
WotC does not make profit on the FTV series.
The print run is so small, and the B&M stores are able to buy them from WotC or suppliers at the cost that would make them see profit from MSRP. However we all know they don't sell them at MSRP.
But WotC does not see this kick back, the B&M stores do. They do not make money on these sets. Same with Judge promos.
The reason WotC focuses on Standard is because they playtest for it with the new set. They playtest Limited, Standard, Block and Extended, which was one of the main reasons Extended changed, because there were so many interactions they were tired of handing out bannings to a format they "supported". Another reason they focused on Standard was FNM, as more people play FNM than they do on the Pro Tour.
And your right, Legacy does not turn over product like Standard does. They are a business first and foremost, and Standard is what gets the product moving.
Stores do a disservice to players when they yank the MSRP of products up but WotC does make money off of them otherwise they wouldn't keep releasing them. They wouldn't keep printing a product at a loss.
FTV wouldn't put enough copies in circulation to allow enough people to get them. Also, jerkoff B&M's along with starcity would sell the FTV singles near original prices just like they did with the last FTV relics.
People will always play t2 in more numbers than any eternal format because the cards pools are infinitesimally smaller and the sheer volume of coverage, strategy, and tournaments are geared towards it. That being said, legacy could grow and WotC could easily make money off of it. What the legacy open series has shown is that people will play both formats on a weekend and enjoy both formats. Yes, you will have exclusive players to both but if you keep prices in check and have good card availability this becomes almost a non-issue. Maybe they want card scarcity though, after all they did create mythic rarity. Who's to say that they really don't want prices and demand to go up as more and more powerful standard cards make it into legacy. This means more and more legacy players by new cards. Even if they are eternal only players dealers by more new product to sell singles which means eternal players are giving WotC money.
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Grats, here is your cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
Actually, WOTC actually would profit from reprinting duals. Something say like in a FTV sets.
Wow. FTV: Dual Lands. One foil version of each of all the original ten dual lands... 4xFTV: Dual Lands=foil playset of each. Would be AWESOME. Older copies would lose a little value, but production of new, pimped-out dual lands would help increase availability, thereby increasing the playability of what has become THE competitive eternal format. Unfortunately, WOTC wont do this- too scared of pissing off the rich collectors, and too powerless to keep Brick and Mortar stores from imposing a triple-digit mark-up.
I'd camp out at Walmart waiting for that to come out Wizards would definitely see some profits just due to the fact that they sell cardboard at $30 (I'd be willing to drop $100 each if that's what they wanted to charge) or whatever a pop. They'd have to commission new artworks so they wouldn't owe royalties to the previous artists, but it would be an easy process. The main issues I see for the company is that they can't break the reprint policy and still seem like a solid company, which is sadly why it won't happen any time soon. I do truly feel that Wizards shouldn't care about the investors, as whoever decides to invest money into a card game really needs to reevaluate their financial plans, but whatever
FTV wouldn't put enough copies in circulation to allow enough people to get them. Also, jerkoff B&M's along with starcity would sell the FTV singles near original prices just like they did with the last FTV relics.
Very true and a lot of players felt hurt by the massive reprinting of Sol Ring in commander.
FTV wouldn't put enough copies in circulation to allow enough people to get them. Also, jerkoff B&M's along with starcity would sell the FTV singles near original prices just like they did with the last FTV relics.
ya sure...just look at mox diamond, sol ring and berserk.
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Mox Diamond was a perfect example of that. While some more copies got out they were immediately being sold for the same if not higher than the original which didn't help anyone really. Also, there weren't that many copies to begin with from those sets. Add to this that B&M's along with online dealers were hiking the MSRP up to astronomical rates. WotC actually isn't powerless to stop this. The same way they can demand products not be sold until certain days or things displayed in certain parts of a store or a certain fashion they can contractually impose a set MSRP for special products. Let's be clear there's a mark up no matter what and WotC can quell that for these items that they actually want people to have. Is any really big retailer, B&M, or online dealer really gone pass on the product of a lifetime because they can't gouge?
EDH players should've been happy about the printing of Sol Ring and others since many didn't have those cards. I have like 3 or 4 Sol Rings from way back when in like nm condition and it doesn't bother me 1 bit they were reprinted. I just wish I could use it in legacy.
On a sidenote, I was actually able to find out through a little internet research that WotC patent on MTG expires in 2015. What this means is that anyone could then make MTG cards. Granted they could fight for the copyrights for mana and tap symbols here in the states but what's to stop a foreign manufacturer from producing identical magic cards with symbols and such and then selling them via the internet? No reprints is begging for them to get there toes stepped on in the worse way starting in 2015. I could definitely see a Chinese company making revised copy duals and other RL goodies with them ending up here in the U.S. Without a patent you can't actually call them fake cards as they are open for printing now. The only thing would be if a company here in the states did it which would make it difficult for them to make a card with all the symbols and back face type. However, this could all be fought in court as their 20 year patent would be up and the copyright courts may not feel they need to grant them exclusivity on the symbols and such anymore. All I know if they should really be thinking about how they could end up alienating a large group of players and how a separate tournament scene could spring up where card availability isn't an issue because of more reasonably priced reprints from foreign countries.
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Grats, here is your cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
Mox Diamond was a perfect example of that. While some more copies got out they were immediately being sold for the same if not higher than the original which didn't help anyone really.
Wizards wasn't trying to drive the secondary market value of the card down, which means that FTV worked as planned. Now if they were going to keep printing a few to release to the market steadily over time, then it would drive the values down slowly yet steadily, as we need right now. A slow price drops let those that value their cad at only money can leave, but those that are willing to take a slight loss can continue to use them forever. That sound like Legacy to me, a format where we can consistently expect the cards we need to be reasonably priced, while still holding the entertainment value it always had. We're still playing a card game here, and I never joined this game to invest anything but enjoyment into it. I don't want my few dual lands to be worth $500 each if I can't tap them for mana
If the dual lands go up up up one should play with ravnica dual lands. Sure they dont work as well, but damn they still do the job. I am sure there are more candelabras than 3000, Just think of all the playsets roaching in boxes because the owner does not play magic nor has the inkling that he has a money maker there. Legacy might actually go down if those former players would either sell thier collections or start playing again. I cant stand the thought of stuff like that roaching in boxes. Kinda like when i see an old classic car the owner just lets it roach in the sun and does nothing to fix it up or sell it to someone who will fix it up!
Rav duals work in modern which seems to be a slower format, but in legacy where turns 1-4 are crucial to the course of the game, having to cip tapped, or pay 2 life would be way too critical.
The duals are pricey, but not impossibly so yet. It's what you'd expect to pay for cards like them. It does suck when i want to switch decks for my meta because the duals will hurt me until i get the rest of the ones i need. I've got about 12, and 30-32 would cover most decks i want to build so until i get those 20 duals, it will make or break what decks i can play in the meantime.
Personally the duals and onslaught fetches are the cards i feel need to be reprinted, moreso on the former as the latter are still very obtainable for anyone serious with legacy. I'm all for them keeping their promise with the reserved list (As they've stated they can't do much about it now) if only the dual lands were to come off.
To elaborate on the duals as well and their prices, after the spike in february they've been mostly stable. SCG raised their buy prices again but before GP Providence dropped each dual back down 10 bucks and haven't raised them since, so there's clearly a fine line right now on what the market is paying for any given one, and what stores are able to buy them for while still being able to get their premium in resale value. This also means we're not seeing a huge shortage yet like vintage cards. There's enough in circulation that the buy/sell prices aren't insane yet. Only sea has even truly cracked $100. Tundra and Trops are close in retail, but both can be gotten for $80 or less on ebay.
Wizards wasn't trying to drive the secondary market value of the card down, which means that FTV worked as planned. Now if they were going to keep printing a few to release to the market steadily over time, then it would drive the values down slowly yet steadily, as we need right now. A slow price drops let those that value their cad at only money can leave, but those that are willing to take a slight loss can continue to use them forever. That sound like Legacy to me, a format where we can consistently expect the cards we need to be reasonably priced, while still holding the entertainment value it always had. We're still playing a card game here, and I never joined this game to invest anything but enjoyment into it. I don't want my few dual lands to be worth $500 each if I can't tap them for mana
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying they were attempting to drive the price down. I was stating that FTV situations inherently drive the price up if not maintain it because not enough copies are not printed to lower the value of the others. Hence, it would be an improper solution to quelling the price on cards such as duals, fow, wasteland and other legacy cards.
I completely agree that when I was 14 the last thing on my mind was buying magic cards for profit. At this point standard is actually the best place for speculation and reselling of purchased format cards to make money for your legacy habit. Even then, I'm not in it to make money for a personal investment. It's only for the purpose of buying more cards and I'd still like cards to be reasonably priced. I believe this to be one of the greatest games invented and the more people that learn to play it the better but cost prohibition is inherently against being able to spread the game to more people. This is why a robust reprint and a better distribution of power level between card rarities is necessary for the health of the game.
Edit: I have yet to see those other 2 duals going for less than 80 anywhere unless you happen to find a really beat condition one. Again the fetches, duals, fow, and a few key sorceries, enchantments and lands like ith, karakas, wasteland and tabernacle are the major culprits. For decks like enchantress, lands, and other fringe strategies to be truly viable on a regular basis and to more people card availability and price have to go up for the former and down for the latter. I can't even understand at this point why there hasn't been a larger special decks reprint set of FOW and or the onslaught fetches. I can see how the Onslaught or other named fetches with the same colors will bring WotC in a fortune for another set which is probably why they haven't reprinted them yet. As for wasteland and fow there's no reason not to have done this yet as obviously they won't put them in any t2 rotation because of their power level.
Legacy does not turn over product like Standard does. They are a business first and foremost, and Standard is what gets the product moving.
This is completely true but they have to be aware of the sheer number of people who would jump at the chance to buy up any Legacy-based products. If they released some kind of FTV set, or better yet just some kind of paper "Masters Edition" (like they have on MTGO) which was just non-standard-legal booster packs that could contain FoW's, Wastelands, etc. (non-reserve list stuff) they wouldn't be able to print enough of it. They'd literally make a fortune it would sell out everywhere.
On a sidenote, I was actually able to find out through a little internet research that WotC patent on MTG expires in 2015. What this means is that anyone could then make MTG cards. Granted they could fight for the copyrights for mana and tap symbols here in the states but what's to stop a foreign manufacturer from producing identical magic cards with symbols and such and then selling them via the internet? No reprints is begging for them to get there toes stepped on in the worse way starting in 2015. I could definitely see a Chinese company making revised copy duals and other RL goodies with them ending up here in the U.S. Without a patent you can't actually call them fake cards as they are open for printing now. The only thing would be if a company here in the states did it which would make it difficult for them to make a card with all the symbols and back face type. However, this could all be fought in court as their 20 year patent would be up and the copyright courts may not feel they need to grant them exclusivity on the symbols and such anymore. All I know if they should really be thinking about how they could end up alienating a large group of players and how a separate tournament scene could spring up where card availability isn't an issue because of more reasonably priced reprints from foreign countries.
I think you need to do more research before you say completely inaccurate things like this. There's a big difference between a patent (which in this case is probably around core concepts/rules/etc. of a CCG) and copyright which would apply to a ton of stuff on a card (art, text, etc.). Even factoring that out, I don't see how "you can't actually call them fake cards" applies here. The financial value of a lot of cards is determined based upon what WotC deems legal in tournaments. Just because proxies (which would basically be what these are) would be allowed to be printed and sold (again, ignoring copyright), doesn't mean WotC is forced to allow those cards to be legal. Sure, other places could make them legal in their own tournaments, but that's basically the exact same scenario with proxy cards in general even in today's world.
Underground Sea - 140
Tundra - 110
Tropical Island - 110
Volcanic Island - 90
These are up 20-30 dollars from 2 months ago.
I have no idea what keeps pushing up prices on things like duals, FOW etc since legacy events are so damn rare, and to think back in the day I played all those cards and they were worth five bucks each
I have no idea what keeps pushing up prices on things like duals, FOW etc since legacy events are so damn rare, and to think back in the day I played all those cards and they were worth five bucks each
the starcity open tournaments spamming alone drives the legacy staples. ppl clearly know legacy has became this popular mainly cause of them.
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These are just numbers pulled off the web, I don't know how accurate these are, but for the sake of this post lets assume these are vaguely right.
Alpha: 2.6 million
Beta: 7.3 million
Unlimited: 40 million
Revised: 500 million
If we assume that duals (which isn't necessarily the case for all decks, but a good example) are the bottleneck that people need to go through, we have a lot longer to go before we start running into vintage prices for cards.
Also, keep in mind that no matter how high the prices go there will still be a much bigger player base for Legacy because of the number of staple cards that were printed. Just because the cards get more expensive doesn't mean that there are fewer players, It just means that it's more expensive to start playing Legacy. I don't see any reason why the player base would shrink other than attrition of existing cards.
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cuz i think there are two versions of judge promo wasteland?
i want a judge promo version of force of will
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Wasteland isn't on the reserved list (and neither is Force of Will), so printing it as a promo doesn't violate any rules.
However... previously, there was a loophole which allowed reserved-list cards to be reprinted as promos or in FTV sets; last year a change to the policy closed that loophole. Wizards now says that cards on the reserved list will never be reprinted again, ever, in any form or for any reason.
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Playing Ravnica duals is just asking to lose. Maybe as a 1 or 2-of if you can't buy that last dual you need, but just try playing a dual heavy deck with them.
You can't.
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My logic is - if wizards sells goods they make profit. If a player purchases goods on the secondary market Wizards does not make profit. So if the point of support existing/new players + making profit doesnt appeal to wizards as a company, they should either ban the lands or make a damn good functional printing of a an alternative.
Agreed, I played MTGO and used ravnica duals and it was a horrible experience.
There is a small contingent of players who this move would initially effect. Their collections would lose about 20-30% of their value assuming a mass reprint of everything. Then, as the format continues it's growth, their cards will be worth as much and more than before.
What keeps WotC from reprinting them is a combination of gutless executives and the knowledge that if they give people these cards, they'll have little reason to buy packs from the new set, when they can just cherry pick a few singles each year. Just my thoughts.
I disagree completely. how would reprinting these cards affect people's decision to buy new sets? There are more people playing standard than there are legacy.
Actually, WOTC actually would profit from reprinting duals. Something say like in a FTV sets.
The true reason is that WOTC wants to focus on standard because legacy doesn't really force people to get new cards every 6 months. Standard does. Many people playing standard already feel that Legacy is unfair.
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WotC does not make profit on the FTV series.
The print run is so small, and the B&M stores are able to buy them from WotC or suppliers at the cost that would make them see profit from MSRP. However we all know they don't sell them at MSRP.
But WotC does not see this kick back, the B&M stores do. They do not make money on these sets. Same with Judge promos.
The reason WotC focuses on Standard is because they playtest for it with the new set. They playtest Limited, Standard, Block and Extended, which was one of the main reasons Extended changed, because there were so many interactions they were tired of handing out bannings to a format they "supported". Another reason they focused on Standard was FNM, as more people play FNM than they do on the Pro Tour.
And your right, Legacy does not turn over product like Standard does. They are a business first and foremost, and Standard is what gets the product moving.
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FTV wouldn't put enough copies in circulation to allow enough people to get them. Also, jerkoff B&M's along with starcity would sell the FTV singles near original prices just like they did with the last FTV relics.
People will always play t2 in more numbers than any eternal format because the cards pools are infinitesimally smaller and the sheer volume of coverage, strategy, and tournaments are geared towards it. That being said, legacy could grow and WotC could easily make money off of it. What the legacy open series has shown is that people will play both formats on a weekend and enjoy both formats. Yes, you will have exclusive players to both but if you keep prices in check and have good card availability this becomes almost a non-issue. Maybe they want card scarcity though, after all they did create mythic rarity. Who's to say that they really don't want prices and demand to go up as more and more powerful standard cards make it into legacy. This means more and more legacy players by new cards. Even if they are eternal only players dealers by more new product to sell singles which means eternal players are giving WotC money.
Wow. FTV: Dual Lands. One foil version of each of all the original ten dual lands... 4xFTV: Dual Lands=foil playset of each. Would be AWESOME. Older copies would lose a little value, but production of new, pimped-out dual lands would help increase availability, thereby increasing the playability of what has become THE competitive eternal format. Unfortunately, WOTC wont do this- too scared of pissing off the rich collectors, and too powerless to keep Brick and Mortar stores from imposing a triple-digit mark-up.
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Standard:
:symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)
Legacy:
:symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
:symr:/:symg:/:symw: Zoo
:symg:/:symw:/:symr: Maverick
Commander:
:symg:/:symb:/:symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Very true and a lot of players felt hurt by the massive reprinting of Sol Ring in commander.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
ya sure...just look at mox diamond, sol ring and berserk.
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EDH players should've been happy about the printing of Sol Ring and others since many didn't have those cards. I have like 3 or 4 Sol Rings from way back when in like nm condition and it doesn't bother me 1 bit they were reprinted. I just wish I could use it in legacy.
On a sidenote, I was actually able to find out through a little internet research that WotC patent on MTG expires in 2015. What this means is that anyone could then make MTG cards. Granted they could fight for the copyrights for mana and tap symbols here in the states but what's to stop a foreign manufacturer from producing identical magic cards with symbols and such and then selling them via the internet? No reprints is begging for them to get there toes stepped on in the worse way starting in 2015. I could definitely see a Chinese company making revised copy duals and other RL goodies with them ending up here in the U.S. Without a patent you can't actually call them fake cards as they are open for printing now. The only thing would be if a company here in the states did it which would make it difficult for them to make a card with all the symbols and back face type. However, this could all be fought in court as their 20 year patent would be up and the copyright courts may not feel they need to grant them exclusivity on the symbols and such anymore. All I know if they should really be thinking about how they could end up alienating a large group of players and how a separate tournament scene could spring up where card availability isn't an issue because of more reasonably priced reprints from foreign countries.
Wizards wasn't trying to drive the secondary market value of the card down, which means that FTV worked as planned. Now if they were going to keep printing a few to release to the market steadily over time, then it would drive the values down slowly yet steadily, as we need right now. A slow price drops let those that value their cad at only money can leave, but those that are willing to take a slight loss can continue to use them forever. That sound like Legacy to me, a format where we can consistently expect the cards we need to be reasonably priced, while still holding the entertainment value it always had. We're still playing a card game here, and I never joined this game to invest anything but enjoyment into it. I don't want my few dual lands to be worth $500 each if I can't tap them for mana
Standard:
:symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)
Legacy:
:symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
:symr:/:symg:/:symw: Zoo
:symg:/:symw:/:symr: Maverick
Commander:
:symg:/:symb:/:symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Rav duals work in modern which seems to be a slower format, but in legacy where turns 1-4 are crucial to the course of the game, having to cip tapped, or pay 2 life would be way too critical.
The duals are pricey, but not impossibly so yet. It's what you'd expect to pay for cards like them. It does suck when i want to switch decks for my meta because the duals will hurt me until i get the rest of the ones i need. I've got about 12, and 30-32 would cover most decks i want to build so until i get those 20 duals, it will make or break what decks i can play in the meantime.
Personally the duals and onslaught fetches are the cards i feel need to be reprinted, moreso on the former as the latter are still very obtainable for anyone serious with legacy. I'm all for them keeping their promise with the reserved list (As they've stated they can't do much about it now) if only the dual lands were to come off.
To elaborate on the duals as well and their prices, after the spike in february they've been mostly stable. SCG raised their buy prices again but before GP Providence dropped each dual back down 10 bucks and haven't raised them since, so there's clearly a fine line right now on what the market is paying for any given one, and what stores are able to buy them for while still being able to get their premium in resale value. This also means we're not seeing a huge shortage yet like vintage cards. There's enough in circulation that the buy/sell prices aren't insane yet. Only sea has even truly cracked $100. Tundra and Trops are close in retail, but both can be gotten for $80 or less on ebay.
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying they were attempting to drive the price down. I was stating that FTV situations inherently drive the price up if not maintain it because not enough copies are not printed to lower the value of the others. Hence, it would be an improper solution to quelling the price on cards such as duals, fow, wasteland and other legacy cards.
I completely agree that when I was 14 the last thing on my mind was buying magic cards for profit. At this point standard is actually the best place for speculation and reselling of purchased format cards to make money for your legacy habit. Even then, I'm not in it to make money for a personal investment. It's only for the purpose of buying more cards and I'd still like cards to be reasonably priced. I believe this to be one of the greatest games invented and the more people that learn to play it the better but cost prohibition is inherently against being able to spread the game to more people. This is why a robust reprint and a better distribution of power level between card rarities is necessary for the health of the game.
Edit: I have yet to see those other 2 duals going for less than 80 anywhere unless you happen to find a really beat condition one. Again the fetches, duals, fow, and a few key sorceries, enchantments and lands like ith, karakas, wasteland and tabernacle are the major culprits. For decks like enchantress, lands, and other fringe strategies to be truly viable on a regular basis and to more people card availability and price have to go up for the former and down for the latter. I can't even understand at this point why there hasn't been a larger special decks reprint set of FOW and or the onslaught fetches. I can see how the Onslaught or other named fetches with the same colors will bring WotC in a fortune for another set which is probably why they haven't reprinted them yet. As for wasteland and fow there's no reason not to have done this yet as obviously they won't put them in any t2 rotation because of their power level.
This is completely true but they have to be aware of the sheer number of people who would jump at the chance to buy up any Legacy-based products. If they released some kind of FTV set, or better yet just some kind of paper "Masters Edition" (like they have on MTGO) which was just non-standard-legal booster packs that could contain FoW's, Wastelands, etc. (non-reserve list stuff) they wouldn't be able to print enough of it. They'd literally make a fortune it would sell out everywhere.
Not sure what the delay is to be honest.
Underground Sea - 140
Tundra - 110
Tropical Island - 110
Volcanic Island - 90
These are up 20-30 dollars from 2 months ago.
I think you need to do more research before you say completely inaccurate things like this. There's a big difference between a patent (which in this case is probably around core concepts/rules/etc. of a CCG) and copyright which would apply to a ton of stuff on a card (art, text, etc.). Even factoring that out, I don't see how "you can't actually call them fake cards" applies here. The financial value of a lot of cards is determined based upon what WotC deems legal in tournaments. Just because proxies (which would basically be what these are) would be allowed to be printed and sold (again, ignoring copyright), doesn't mean WotC is forced to allow those cards to be legal. Sure, other places could make them legal in their own tournaments, but that's basically the exact same scenario with proxy cards in general even in today's world.
I have no idea what keeps pushing up prices on things like duals, FOW etc since legacy events are so damn rare, and to think back in the day I played all those cards and they were worth five bucks each
the starcity open tournaments spamming alone drives the legacy staples. ppl clearly know legacy has became this popular mainly cause of them.
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