Miracles was not healthy and Countertop was at a similar powerlevel of Oath/Survival before they got banned. I do believe Top should had been ban when Burn started to use Top. I started to used top in burn 2 years ago.
Having played when Survival was legal (shortly before its ban) and having played consistently since, no it was not. Not even close. Survival was banned because top8's started packing 24+ copies of it, Survival decks started winning event after event without fail, and the best decks in the format were *all* variants of Survival. You had Vengevine Survival, Survivelves, Retainers Survival, Necrotic Ooze Survival, Maverick Surival, etc. Miracles' prominence was nowhere near that, and while Sensei's Top showed up a little in other decks, they're mostly fringe decks like 12post, Painter, Nic Fit, or a random one-of in an ANT list or similar. For your talk of Top in Burn, of the top-32ing lists from the past 2 months, a single list runs a single Top, so I'm calling BS on that being a determining factor.
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Miracles was not healthy and Countertop was at a similar powerlevel of Oath/Survival before they got banned. I do believe Top should had been ban when Burn started to use Top. I started to used top in burn 2 years ago.
Having played when Survival was legal (shortly before its ban) and having played consistently since, no it was not. Not even close. Survival was banned because top8's started packing 24+ copies of it, Survival decks started winning event after event without fail, and the best decks in the format were *all* variants of Survival. You had Vengevine Survival, Survivelves, Retainers Survival, Necrotic Ooze Survival, Maverick Surival, etc. Miracles' prominence was nowhere near that, and while Sensei's Top showed up a little in other decks, they're mostly fringe decks like 12post, Painter, Nic Fit, or a random one-of in an ANT list or similar. For your talk of Top in Burn, of the top-32ing lists from the past 2 months, a single list runs a single Top, so I'm calling BS on that being a determining factor.
Sure Surival/Oath/Countertop are not equals. I'm not and never was saying they were equals. I'm talking about the powerlevel in the current format.
Also the card ban is Sensei's Divining Top and the ban seemed to hit other decks besides counterbalance/miracles. The presence of top in legacy was similar to the presence of Mental Misstep.
Sucks yes... but if it was ok to ban Mental Misstep because of numbers than I don't see anything stopping a Sensei's Divining Top ban.
Sure Surival/Oath/Countertop are not equals. I'm not and never was saying they were equals. I'm talking about the powerlevel in the current format.
Also the card ban is Sensei's Divining Top and the ban seemed to hit other decks besides counterbalance/miracles. The presence of top in legacy was similar to the presence of Mental Misstep.
Sucks yes... but if it was ok to ban Mental Misstep because of numbers than I don't see anything stopping a Sensei's Divining Top ban.
Except again, Top wasn't *anything like* Mental Misstep. Mental Misstep was in practically EVERY SINGLE DECK at the time of its banning, because the only way to keep your one mana spells from getting Misstepped was to pack your own. Decks like Zoo and Goblins were running it as a way to make their own spells resolve. About the only decks who didn't pack 4 copies in their 75 were decks that didn't run 1 mana spells at all (like Stompy variants) and Dredge. It was not uncommon to see top8's with 28-32 Mental Missteps in them.
Meanwhile, we've had top 8's with 0 tops, and I think the maximum penetration of top in a major event top8 was something like 14.
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But 2 of the 4 cards you want unbanned (Earthcraft and Survival) are on the Reserved List.
I'm not following.
Your 4th point above was "Ban the Reserve List". So, you want to Unban Survival and Earthcraft and then immediately ban them again for being on the Reserve List. Unless of course you were talking about the list literally. That is, you want the list gone. But, since it has been brought up before, the assumption of your requests was that you wanted cards on the Reserve List banned (which is how I read it too) so things like the Duals would be banned. If you wanted the list gone, don't phrase it as you want the list itself "banned".
Except again, Top wasn't *anything like* Mental Misstep. Mental Misstep was in practically EVERY SINGLE DECK at the time of its banning, because the only way to keep your one mana spells from getting Misstepped was to pack your own. Decks like Zoo and Goblins were running it as a way to make their own spells resolve. About the only decks who didn't pack 4 copies in their 75 were decks that didn't run 1 mana spells at all (like Stompy variants) and Dredge. It was not uncommon to see top8's with 28-32 Mental Missteps in them.
Meanwhile, we've had top 8's with 0 tops, and I think the maximum penetration of top in a major event top8 was something like 14.
Meanwhile, a good number of magic players with non-counterbalance & non-miracle decks are *****ING ABOUT THE LOSS OF TOP....
But 2 of the 4 cards you want unbanned (Earthcraft and Survival) are on the Reserved List.
I'm not following.
Your 4th point above was "Ban the Reserve List". So, you want to Unban Survival and Earthcraft and then immediately ban them again for being on the Reserve List. Unless of course you were talking about the list literally. That is, you want the list gone. But, since it has been brought up before, the assumption of your requests was that you wanted cards on the Reserve List banned (which is how I read it too) so things like the Duals would be banned. If you wanted the list gone, don't phrase it as you want the list itself "banned".
Yeah, basically this. I read your post as "ban all cards on the Reserved List" when half of the cards you noted as wanting to unban are cards that are on the Reserved List.
Your 4th point above was "Ban the Reserve List". So, you want to Unban Survival and Earthcraft and then immediately ban them again for being on the Reserve List. Unless of course you were talking about the list literally. That is, you want the list gone. But, since it has been brought up before, the assumption of your requests was that you wanted cards on the Reserve List banned (which is how I read it too) so things like the Duals would be banned. If you wanted the list gone, don't phrase it as you want the list itself "banned".
Of course I don't want to ban the cards on the Reserved List from Legacy. It was a cheeky way of saying, "Abolish the Reserved List", following the phraseology of the previous items on the list.
Ban it. Exile it. Remove it from the game. Banish it. What have you.
Your 4th point above was "Ban the Reserve List". So, you want to Unban Survival and Earthcraft and then immediately ban them again for being on the Reserve List. Unless of course you were talking about the list literally. That is, you want the list gone. But, since it has been brought up before, the assumption of your requests was that you wanted cards on the Reserve List banned (which is how I read it too) so things like the Duals would be banned. If you wanted the list gone, don't phrase it as you want the list itself "banned".
Of course I don't want to ban the cards on the Reserved List from Legacy. It was a cheeky way of saying, "Abolish the Reserved List", following the phraseology of the previous items on the list.
Ban it. Exile it. Remove it from the game. Banish it. What have you.
Even if wizards removed the reserve list, they still have to make the cards. Removing the reserve list is not going to drop the value of magic cards. Card shops are not going to say. "Damn wizards just dropped the reserve list, I guess the Underground Sea is now worth 50 dollars."
Also please note that when wizards reprint magic cards they are black border... therefore I have doubts a reprinted black border underground sea is going to be cheaper then a 300 dollar Revised Edition one. Do you know how many players want an English black border Underground Sea without spending 3,000 dollars for a beta?
I think it better for cardshops to make their own tournament legal proxies and rent them out to players that want awesome tournament decks without spending an arm and a leg. Heck, I wouldn't mind renting a black lotus proxy for 5 dollars for the day, if I could use the card in all the tournaments for that day.
Even if wizards removed the reserve list, they still have to make the cards. Removing the reserve list is not going to drop the value of magic cards. Card shops are not going to say. "Damn wizards just dropped the reserve list, I guess the Underground Sea is now worth 50 dollars."
I'm not sure removal of the Reserved List followed by zero reprints is a danger about which we need to be warned.
Even if wizards removed the reserve list, they still have to make the cards. Removing the reserve list is not going to drop the value of magic cards. Card shops are not going to say. "Damn wizards just dropped the reserve list, I guess the Underground Sea is now worth 50 dollars."
I'm not sure removal of the Reserved List followed by zero reprints is a danger about which we need to be warned.
Basically some believe if wizards remove the reserve list tag the value of the magic cards will instantly drop. (I think we've been around the game long enough to know that will never happen)
The reserve list is wizards saying "Sorry but we don't have to deal with card because of the reserve list - end statement." Therefore, they are not going to remove the reserve list because it's better for them to hide behind the reserve list.
I do believe cardshops should use rent-able proxies in their tournaments. This was an idea floating around when vintage was called type 1. I do think it's realistic move.
Miracles was not healthy and Countertop was at a similar powerlevel of Oath/Survival before they got banned. I do believe Top should had been ban when Burn started to use Top. I started to used top in burn 2 years ago.
Having played when Survival was legal (shortly before its ban) and having played consistently since, no it was not. Not even close. Survival was banned because top8's started packing 24+ copies of it, Survival decks started winning event after event without fail, and the best decks in the format were *all* variants of Survival. You had Vengevine Survival, Survivelves, Retainers Survival, Necrotic Ooze Survival, Maverick Surival, etc. Miracles' prominence was nowhere near that, and while Sensei's Top showed up a little in other decks, they're mostly fringe decks like 12post, Painter, Nic Fit, or a random one-of in an ANT list or similar. For your talk of Top in Burn, of the top-32ing lists from the past 2 months, a single list runs a single Top, so I'm calling BS on that being a determining factor.
Sure Surival/Oath/Countertop are not equals. I'm not and never was saying they were equals. I'm talking about the powerlevel in the current format.
Also the card ban is Sensei's Divining Top and the ban seemed to hit other decks besides counterbalance/miracles. The presence of top in legacy was similar to the presence of Mental Misstep.
Sucks yes... but if it was ok to ban Mental Misstep because of numbers than I don't see anything stopping a Sensei's Divining Top ban.
Top presence wasn't close to the presence of mental misstep.
Except again, Top wasn't *anything like* Mental Misstep. Mental Misstep was in practically EVERY SINGLE DECK at the time of its banning, because the only way to keep your one mana spells from getting Misstepped was to pack your own. Decks like Zoo and Goblins were running it as a way to make their own spells resolve. About the only decks who didn't pack 4 copies in their 75 were decks that didn't run 1 mana spells at all (like Stompy variants) and Dredge. It was not uncommon to see top8's with 28-32 Mental Missteps in them.
Meanwhile, we've had top 8's with 0 tops, and I think the maximum penetration of top in a major event top8 was something like 14.
Meanwhile, a good number of magic players with non-counterbalance & non-miracle decks are *****ING ABOUT THE LOSS OF TOP....
Yours is a poor argument for a lot of reasons, but for the sake of brevity, I think you need to consider that not all (perhaps not most) of the people sad over the loss of top actually played top.
For example, while I kept miracles built (the punishing variant), it's not losing that deck that bothers me about this ban. I am bothered in part for the reasons elaborated by Wildfire above, but also because I consider Miracles to have been the best case scenario for the format's best deck. It was a very skill-intensive control deck that was eminently attackable on many axes. It had a relatively small market share, compared to other formats' best decks. And lastly, it gave a breathing space for clunkier quirky decks. Miracles was slow and tuned to beat fast, low-to-the-ground decks. Aluren, Cloudpost, and 4C Loam owed a large part of their tournament resumés to the force of miracles in slowing down the format (in addition to each of them crushing miracles themselves).
I am sad to see miracles go because it was a fun match-up for me. It emphasized a slow but high-power game with high emphasis on hidden information and careful maneuvering. I'm worried that the new "best deck" ascendant will be something harder to attack from multiple angles (Lands) and perhaps too fast (Elves), or just boring for me (Delver or 4C Leovold). Note that these aren't decks that I necessarily dislike (for example: I own and enjoy playing Lands), but rather they are decks that I feel would make for an unhealthy "best deck" for the format.
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Yours is a poor argument for a lot of reasons, but for the sake of brevity, I think you need to consider that not all (perhaps not most) of the people sad over the loss of top actually played top.
Oh... and you're assuming that I never played top. I've played top and I defended and supported top for years. But that's before wizards created this new mechanic called Miracles.
Seriously, I believe Brainstorm should be the card banned because of the interaction with Miracles/Delver, but we know wizards won't ban brainstorm - so Top is thrown under the bus. I guess you should be happy that brainstorm was not banned.
Unban top and make a new tournament rule: If a match goes to time +5 turn, the deck running top loses
Fringe decks with top are happy(ish), good miracle players are happy, slow miracle player will finally need to learn how to play their deck properly
win-win-win
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"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Unban top and make a new tournament rule: If a match goes to time +5 turn, the deck running top loses
Fringe decks with top are happy(ish), good miracle players are happy, slow miracle player will finally need to learn how to play their deck properly
win-win-win
What happens when non-Miracles decks try to stall against Miracles for the free win?
Gah. It's beginning to seem like maybe the collateral damage from this ban might outweigh the benefits. I wonder how many decks will adjust and how many will just wither and die.
I hope the meta doesn't go to *****.
I agree that this ban seems shortsighted. The meta was healthy, all things considered. Miracles was the best deck in the format, but only made up 15% of the format, so it wasn't like it was overwhelmingly the best deck. Meanwhile there was an absolutely huge number of decks with 2-7% of the meta - 4c/Grixis Delver, Death and Taxes, Eldrazi, UR Delver, Infect, Dragon Stompy, Shardless BUG, Leovold Control, Aggro Loam, Stoneblade, Show and Tell, Storm, Reanimator, Elves, Food Chain, Turbo Depths, and Aluren. Many of these came into being or gained prominence recently, showing that the meta was capable of evolving despite being overall stable. The meta was close to 33/33/33 split between Aggro/Tempo, Midrange/Control, and Combo. Blazing-fast combo decks were basically non-existent, as all of the top combo decks compromised speed for the reliability of being able to go toe-to-toe with Miracles in a longer game, leading to the average game-length for the format being something like 5.5 turns.
So why throw this away? Miracles' meta percentage over the past few months (15%) has been within 1 percentage point of its entire 2016 presence (14%), w which was only 2% up from its entire 2015 presence (12%). So the format hasn't gotten appreciably more centralized around Miracles. Recent major events have seen as many as 3 Miracles in the top 8 (EE17), but as few as 0 (EW16), so it's not like it's been consistently hogging the spotlight. Sure, there's the "Miracles Players Tend to Go to Time" issue, but that's been a known issue for literally the existence of Top. Why is it suddenly now a problem? (Also, I would posit that the solution to this problem is to be more aggressive in handing down slow play warnings to players who end up going to time in 2 or more matches in a tournament. I've played dozens of rounds of Miracles at tournaments and have literally never gone to time, it's not hard unless you're *trying* to stall.)
Aaron Forsythe recently stated on Twitter that community feedback is the catalyst for B&R. I'm guessing enough people were complaining about the time issue that it pushed SDT over the 'top', since apparently Miracles has held a stable metagame percentage for quite awhile.
I'm just getting into Legacy and the stable yet extremely diverse metagame was one of my reasons for doing so. As you said, with Miracles on 'top', a lot of interesting decks were able to flourish that may not be viable without it. We'll see how it shakes out but I'm definitely not very optimistic.
On the plus side, Legacy doesn't mean dick to Wizards as far as sales goes, so they could always unban Top (and they might if they get enough negative feedback about the ban) without the usual dollar signs giving them pause.
Unban top and make a new tournament rule: If a match goes to time +5 turn, the deck running top loses
Fringe decks with top are happy(ish), good miracle players are happy, slow miracle player will finally need to learn how to play their deck properly
win-win-win
What happens when non-Miracles decks try to stall against Miracles for the free win?
Oh it's still a bad situation for miracle... but it's better than losing your deck
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"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Unban top and make a new tournament rule: If a match goes to time +5 turn, the deck running top loses
Fringe decks with top are happy(ish), good miracle players are happy, slow miracle player will finally need to learn how to play their deck properly
win-win-win
Why not have a stop clock like in Chess...
Don't kid yourself. Top was banned because of the interaction of Miracles.
Unban top and make a new tournament rule: If a match goes to time +5 turn, the deck running top loses
Fringe decks with top are happy(ish), good miracle players are happy, slow miracle player will finally need to learn how to play their deck properly
win-win-win
Why not have a stop clock like in Chess...
Don't kid yourself. Top was banned because of the interaction of Miracles.
That was what I was thinking. Stopclock like when playing online is a good answer to slow decks.
Good luck. Some players love burning the clock, especially when they know they are going to loose.
I remember one time I called a judge on a player, for a delay of game. The player was spending almost 5 minutes shuffling my deck. Judge told him to get on with it and that was it. He received no penalty... Meanwhile that player took 6 minute out of our game time.
I'm happy to see the damn thing go. I think they're stupid, and the only fun I ever had with them was taking them out of the opponent's deck with extirpate. Counterspell should not be a permanent. Yes, Legacy is competitive, but it's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. Watching some kid fiddle with his top and go 'ummmm' for 10 minutes every time you try to play a card is not fun. Only being able to play lands is not fun. One time I had nothing but an inkmoth nexus, a pendelhaven, and a wasteland and I won the game against a top/counterbalance lock. It felt really good. Miracles had gotten to be almost 15% of the meta. Everybody hates Miracles, even people who play Miracles. It's WoTC's job to keep the game fresh and challenging, and they're doing a good job for a change. Let's see if they can fix D&T next.
I'm happy to see the damn thing go. I think they're stupid, and the only fun I ever had with them was taking them out of the opponent's deck with extirpate. Counterspell should not be a permanent.
And this was why - for years - I was advocating to unban Mana Drain. Now that top is ban and counterblance has no lock - I drop my support for unbaning Mana Drain.
I always hear that argument of "Chess clock this", "Chess clock that".
In real life it is not possible, as simple as it is, as long as the stack exists. Just go through an average turn, how often does the Priority change between your Upkeep and the Clean up step?
In the end, you would slam more on that darn clock than actually playing the game.
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StaffHaving played when Survival was legal (shortly before its ban) and having played consistently since, no it was not. Not even close. Survival was banned because top8's started packing 24+ copies of it, Survival decks started winning event after event without fail, and the best decks in the format were *all* variants of Survival. You had Vengevine Survival, Survivelves, Retainers Survival, Necrotic Ooze Survival, Maverick Surival, etc. Miracles' prominence was nowhere near that, and while Sensei's Top showed up a little in other decks, they're mostly fringe decks like 12post, Painter, Nic Fit, or a random one-of in an ANT list or similar. For your talk of Top in Burn, of the top-32ing lists from the past 2 months, a single list runs a single Top, so I'm calling BS on that being a determining factor.
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Sure Surival/Oath/Countertop are not equals. I'm not and never was saying they were equals. I'm talking about the powerlevel in the current format.
Also the card ban is Sensei's Divining Top and the ban seemed to hit other decks besides counterbalance/miracles. The presence of top in legacy was similar to the presence of Mental Misstep.
Sucks yes... but if it was ok to ban Mental Misstep because of numbers than I don't see anything stopping a Sensei's Divining Top ban.
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StaffExcept again, Top wasn't *anything like* Mental Misstep. Mental Misstep was in practically EVERY SINGLE DECK at the time of its banning, because the only way to keep your one mana spells from getting Misstepped was to pack your own. Decks like Zoo and Goblins were running it as a way to make their own spells resolve. About the only decks who didn't pack 4 copies in their 75 were decks that didn't run 1 mana spells at all (like Stompy variants) and Dredge. It was not uncommon to see top8's with 28-32 Mental Missteps in them.
Meanwhile, we've had top 8's with 0 tops, and I think the maximum penetration of top in a major event top8 was something like 14.
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I'm not following.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Meanwhile, a good number of magic players with non-counterbalance & non-miracle decks are *****ING ABOUT THE LOSS OF TOP....
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What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
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Of course I don't want to ban the cards on the Reserved List from Legacy. It was a cheeky way of saying, "Abolish the Reserved List", following the phraseology of the previous items on the list.
Ban it. Exile it. Remove it from the game. Banish it. What have you.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Even if wizards removed the reserve list, they still have to make the cards. Removing the reserve list is not going to drop the value of magic cards. Card shops are not going to say. "Damn wizards just dropped the reserve list, I guess the Underground Sea is now worth 50 dollars."
Also please note that when wizards reprint magic cards they are black border... therefore I have doubts a reprinted black border underground sea is going to be cheaper then a 300 dollar Revised Edition one. Do you know how many players want an English black border Underground Sea without spending 3,000 dollars for a beta?
I think it better for cardshops to make their own tournament legal proxies and rent them out to players that want awesome tournament decks without spending an arm and a leg. Heck, I wouldn't mind renting a black lotus proxy for 5 dollars for the day, if I could use the card in all the tournaments for that day.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I'm not sure removal of the Reserved List followed by zero reprints is a danger about which we need to be warned.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Basically some believe if wizards remove the reserve list tag the value of the magic cards will instantly drop. (I think we've been around the game long enough to know that will never happen)
The reserve list is wizards saying "Sorry but we don't have to deal with card because of the reserve list - end statement." Therefore, they are not going to remove the reserve list because it's better for them to hide behind the reserve list.
I do believe cardshops should use rent-able proxies in their tournaments. This was an idea floating around when vintage was called type 1. I do think it's realistic move.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Top presence wasn't close to the presence of mental misstep.
For example, while I kept miracles built (the punishing variant), it's not losing that deck that bothers me about this ban. I am bothered in part for the reasons elaborated by Wildfire above, but also because I consider Miracles to have been the best case scenario for the format's best deck. It was a very skill-intensive control deck that was eminently attackable on many axes. It had a relatively small market share, compared to other formats' best decks. And lastly, it gave a breathing space for clunkier quirky decks. Miracles was slow and tuned to beat fast, low-to-the-ground decks. Aluren, Cloudpost, and 4C Loam owed a large part of their tournament resumés to the force of miracles in slowing down the format (in addition to each of them crushing miracles themselves).
I am sad to see miracles go because it was a fun match-up for me. It emphasized a slow but high-power game with high emphasis on hidden information and careful maneuvering. I'm worried that the new "best deck" ascendant will be something harder to attack from multiple angles (Lands) and perhaps too fast (Elves), or just boring for me (Delver or 4C Leovold). Note that these aren't decks that I necessarily dislike (for example: I own and enjoy playing Lands), but rather they are decks that I feel would make for an unhealthy "best deck" for the format.
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Oh... and you're assuming that I never played top. I've played top and I defended and supported top for years. But that's before wizards created this new mechanic called Miracles.
Seriously, I believe Brainstorm should be the card banned because of the interaction with Miracles/Delver, but we know wizards won't ban brainstorm - so Top is thrown under the bus. I guess you should be happy that brainstorm was not banned.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
If a match goes to time +5 turn, the deck running top loses
Fringe decks with top are happy(ish), good miracle players are happy, slow miracle player will finally need to learn how to play their deck properly
win-win-win
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
What happens when non-Miracles decks try to stall against Miracles for the free win?
Aaron Forsythe recently stated on Twitter that community feedback is the catalyst for B&R. I'm guessing enough people were complaining about the time issue that it pushed SDT over the 'top', since apparently Miracles has held a stable metagame percentage for quite awhile.
I'm just getting into Legacy and the stable yet extremely diverse metagame was one of my reasons for doing so. As you said, with Miracles on 'top', a lot of interesting decks were able to flourish that may not be viable without it. We'll see how it shakes out but I'm definitely not very optimistic.
On the plus side, Legacy doesn't mean dick to Wizards as far as sales goes, so they could always unban Top (and they might if they get enough negative feedback about the ban) without the usual dollar signs giving them pause.
Oh it's still a bad situation for miracle... but it's better than losing your deck
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Why not have a stop clock like in Chess...
Don't kid yourself. Top was banned because of the interaction of Miracles.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Good luck. Some players love burning the clock, especially when they know they are going to loose.
I remember one time I called a judge on a player, for a delay of game. The player was spending almost 5 minutes shuffling my deck. Judge told him to get on with it and that was it. He received no penalty... Meanwhile that player took 6 minute out of our game time.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
And this was why - for years - I was advocating to unban Mana Drain. Now that top is ban and counterblance has no lock - I drop my support for unbaning Mana Drain.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
In real life it is not possible, as simple as it is, as long as the stack exists. Just go through an average turn, how often does the Priority change between your Upkeep and the Clean up step?
In the end, you would slam more on that darn clock than actually playing the game.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)