So, at the moment I am making a custom game mode(or format if you want to call it that) and I need a bit of info.
The Format comes from my Deep-seated dislike of the fact that commander is a singleton.
Now, i know that there are reasons for commander to be a singleton. Otherwise Combo decks would be running 4X demonic tutor with their combo Pieces.
So, i came up with the Basic Premise of this mode.
You have up to three "Commanders" (same rules as in EDH, elaborated on further)(1 supreme commander and two lesser. Lesser commanders have to be in the color identity of the Supreme Commander)(i'm going to make a list of legal Commanders, With both Legendary Creatures and Plansewalkers)
Each Commander has a "Fortress" That serves as their Command Zone. When you cast the commander, you get the fortress as well. (examples would be Bolas's Citadel for Bolas, Planar Bridge for Tezzeret)(Commander tax would be raised to 3 mana or more due to this)
80 cards instead of 100
you attack your opponents Fortress's instead of your opponent. Each Fortress has 15 health. Knocking out all three of your opponents fortress's and then hitting them eliminates them. (If you gain or lose life that would be specifically targeted at you in other format's is instead dealt to a fortress of your choice. Your opponents can only attack your Fortress's if the Corresponding Commander is not on the Field.
I would look at all Legal cards (More on that later) and Sort them into 4 Groups. Each of these Groups represents how many Cards with that name you can have in your deck. This would allow Decks that rely of Specific Irreplaceable cards (Like DreadHorde Invasion for amass) to function, while allowing me to keep Combo Decks in check. All legendary Cards would all be in the 1 card only section, as well as any tutors.
So what does this have to do with the info i need? well, I've Decided to make only the Bolas Arc Legal for this game mode. This narrows down the Options Considerably without Strangling Diversity (I hope). So what I am asking is if anyone see's any cards that should be placed in the lower Allowed amounts, or banned altogether. I will be excluding core 2019 from the list since most of its legends are from the past, and therefor wouldn't have any card's to serve as Fortress's
For reference the Sets in the bolas saga are:
Kaladesh
Ather Revolt
Amonkhet
Hour of Devastation
Ixalan
Rivals of Ixalan
Dominaria
Guilds of Ravnica
Ravnica Allegiance
War of the spark
Any Innate problems with the format can also be addressed in this post.
Thank you in advance.
So I don't really have suggestions for the particular card counts, but I have a few basic issues with the format. I'll list out some thoughts. But even before that I think the format sounds really epic and could be really cool.
Thought 1) It's true that the singleton element should never be changed in Commander, but I believe the reason it's like that is different than preventing combos per se. Preventing combos was just a good sideeffect that has improved the health of the format significantly over how bad it could be. Initially it was probably intended to increase variance as much as possible, since so much deckbuilding was about optimization; remember that what makes this format particularly interesting isn't its singleton but its usage of commanders, its vast health stockpiles slowing the game down, and so on, founded back in Legends where combos just weren't as much as a thing. But this isn't really relevant for you, I just wanted to bring it up.
Thought 2) The deck construction rules are already quite complicated, infact moreso than Commander; figuring out multicard tracking in addition to that adds a lot of complexity to the deckbuilding that I'm not sure is benefitial for the format's spread. However as a format just between you and friends, it sounds really amazing; and in that case I'd just let people do 4-ofs, and then you can agree on bans communally. Especially with the restrictions you've noted, everything should be fine. What really pushes Commmander to combo is solely the starting life, by the way, and you seemingly plan to increase it by 5 (if 45 total). I'm not sure how the cumulative addition+loss of "commander" permanents translates into making it more or less combo friendly.
I will keep Variance in mind when issuing the card Restrictions, an example is how i am going to nerf Lava coil to two copies since it does its job better than most over Removal cards.
also, after looking over your comment i realized that 4 groups was confusing so i decided to simplify things
group 1: 4 cards (90% of cards)
group 2: 2 cards (cards that overshadow other cards)
group 3: 1 card (Legendaries)
The problem with that is that lava coil is an uncommon, which would warrant 3 copies, while Dreadhorde Invasion (An Amass necessity) is a rare, which would only warrant 2
i will try to make the lists not to long, keeping most cards in the 4 of
Also I'm a little confused why Lava Coil is a problem? Yes, it's a good removal spell, but it's not overpowered, it's quite fair. In general, fair answers are not the thing to restrict in order to make a format good. In the sets listed, the only other red cards that can exile (a reasonably important ability when there are several graveyard strategies present) are Magma Spray, Puncturing Blow and Scorchmark. In a slow format, Magma Spray and Scorchmark are really bad, and Puncturing Blow is a slow, expensive removal spell; in general, you want your format's answers to be cheaper than its threats. This is actually one of the larger problems of the sets of the Bolas Arc, removal was quite underpowered for a lot of it, and Wizards admitted it wasn't good design.
I understand that you want variance in deckbuilding, but I'm not sure taking out general tools because they're better than other cards is the solution. You're already at a minimum deck size of 80 cards, the red player has to add other cards to fill the removal quota anyways, Lava Coil is a single target spell in a multiplayer format (and is therefore overshadowed by mass removal by a long shot), and with the larger minimum deck size red already has problems with drawing its cards that would be answering graveyard decks. And red's already general weak in multiplayer, and you're talking about structuring the rules in such a way that you can up the access to high value cards such as Dreadhorde Invasion at the cost of restricting a general purpose removal spell! Think of how the two interact; Lava Coil would remove the Amass token only once, and only if it's a 4/4 or less, and then the opponent will get their zombie back the very next turn. In a multiplayer format, this is crucially more powerful for the amass player.
Sorry, I need to kick the habit of thinking like its a 1v1. In a multiplayer format, yes, Lava coil is fine. I was just a bit sick of seeing it every single game.
so yeah, 2 card will likely be more for cards that are oppressive.
The card itself isn't a problem, rather the fact that almost no one plays anything else right now. The only other card that I've seen is Chandra's Triumph in Decks running Chandra. The Card itself is perfectly fine.
I have to ask, plays anything else right now in what exactly? I see it very rarely in Standard, and it's definitely not prevalent in Commander. Lightning Strike is much more common.
Really? because in the last 20 Standard games I've played, all of them where my opponent had red in their deck had lava coil in those decks. The only other removal card I've seen is the aforementioned Chandra's Truimph. In commander though i can agree, i don't see it at all.
I'm not going to nerf it though, since this is a multiplayer format. That was an error on my part.
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The Format comes from my Deep-seated dislike of the fact that commander is a singleton.
Now, i know that there are reasons for commander to be a singleton. Otherwise Combo decks would be running 4X demonic tutor with their combo Pieces.
So, i came up with the Basic Premise of this mode.
For reference the Sets in the bolas saga are:
Thank you in advance.
Thought 1) It's true that the singleton element should never be changed in Commander, but I believe the reason it's like that is different than preventing combos per se. Preventing combos was just a good sideeffect that has improved the health of the format significantly over how bad it could be. Initially it was probably intended to increase variance as much as possible, since so much deckbuilding was about optimization; remember that what makes this format particularly interesting isn't its singleton but its usage of commanders, its vast health stockpiles slowing the game down, and so on, founded back in Legends where combos just weren't as much as a thing. But this isn't really relevant for you, I just wanted to bring it up.
Thought 2) The deck construction rules are already quite complicated, infact moreso than Commander; figuring out multicard tracking in addition to that adds a lot of complexity to the deckbuilding that I'm not sure is benefitial for the format's spread. However as a format just between you and friends, it sounds really amazing; and in that case I'd just let people do 4-ofs, and then you can agree on bans communally. Especially with the restrictions you've noted, everything should be fine. What really pushes Commmander to combo is solely the starting life, by the way, and you seemingly plan to increase it by 5 (if 45 total). I'm not sure how the cumulative addition+loss of "commander" permanents translates into making it more or less combo friendly.
also, after looking over your comment i realized that 4 groups was confusing so i decided to simplify things
group 1: 4 cards (90% of cards)
group 2: 2 cards (cards that overshadow other cards)
group 3: 1 card (Legendaries)
does this make it better?
i will try to make the lists not to long, keeping most cards in the 4 of
I understand that you want variance in deckbuilding, but I'm not sure taking out general tools because they're better than other cards is the solution. You're already at a minimum deck size of 80 cards, the red player has to add other cards to fill the removal quota anyways, Lava Coil is a single target spell in a multiplayer format (and is therefore overshadowed by mass removal by a long shot), and with the larger minimum deck size red already has problems with drawing its cards that would be answering graveyard decks. And red's already general weak in multiplayer, and you're talking about structuring the rules in such a way that you can up the access to high value cards such as Dreadhorde Invasion at the cost of restricting a general purpose removal spell! Think of how the two interact; Lava Coil would remove the Amass token only once, and only if it's a 4/4 or less, and then the opponent will get their zombie back the very next turn. In a multiplayer format, this is crucially more powerful for the amass player.
so yeah, 2 card will likely be more for cards that are oppressive.
I'm not going to nerf it though, since this is a multiplayer format. That was an error on my part.