TBH, everyone so far has gone to the extreme the format can go. Make no mistake, I've tried the Narset + Windfall thing, its just as misery inducing as you'd expect, but lets apply this same logic to our beloved EDH and assume everyone runs Flash Hulk and Shimmer Zur builds right?
This is absolutely has to be treated casually or else it would just be "solved" by playing U/X Planeswalker with severe lockdown. Interesting to note though, Black got two 1cmc removal spells for 'Walkers in WAR that work well to hammer these strategies using broken spell + PW combos in the zone.
I did consider running Cyclonic Rift in here but didn't want to spend an extra $20 on a card that I already run in two EDH / Commander decks, mainly being Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow. Stasis would've been too evil so I kept it out for obvious reasons. With Sol Ring banned I needed to be a bit more creative with my mana rocks, hopefully the one's I chose should suffice.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I would love to use all Planeswalkers as Commanders but I don't like this format the following reasons:
- Small library and lifes is exactly what I avoid when playing commander, so I find a bad idea to make this format similar to the regular ones. Already I'm in trouble to know what to cut because 100 cards limit are not enough for me, and the highest is the variance with cards the most fresher and more fun are the games imho.
- the signature spell is a bad idea due to the abuses you are allowed to do in sinergy with your general
- Having the choice to play only with a Planeswalkers and only against others planeswalkers feels terribly boring and limiting. The ideal would be to make both choices available, in order to have a much higher variance of decks and games.
- I don't like banlists where fast mana is banned. One of the main reasons I play EDH, as a Timmy player, is that I want to have the chance to make big flashy junk viable in both a casual and competitive envinroment.
So no, this format is not for me.
- the signature spell is a bad idea due to the abuses you are allowed to do in sinergy with your general
(Synergy not sinergy)
I agree with the signature spell. But not that it grants synergy, (Though it does) I feel the signature spell can actually break the game completely, there are lists of Oathbreaker combos that make the game unfun. I mean I feel this has more staying power than Brawl (Since it is an eternal format, and created by fans, not wotC) But at the same time, it might not well if people go for the "dick moves" and try to build oppressive combinations. I have already found over a dozen broken combos. Both from searching and experimentation. I bet with a bit more effort I can find even more broken combos which really hurts this format. You have to make sure your playgroup is the type who are playing for fun and not to win. (I know the difference, i have two decks, one for fun (Dragons) and one to win (Jhoira))
You have to make sure your playgroup is the type who are playing for fun and not to win.
I have fun where the most things are allowed but this format have so many limits compared to regular EDH, that I might just house rule the real Commander instead of referring to this "watered down" version, if my interest is just to play any PW as generals.
You have to make sure your playgroup is the type who are playing for fun and not to win.
I have fun where the most things are allowed but this format have so many limits compared to regular EDH, that I might just house rule the real Commander instead of referring to this "watered down" version, if my interest is just to play any PW as generals.
Well I want to try to apply the signature spell idea to regular commander, just as a variant. Maybe a game or two a night I can con convince people to give it a shot. (Chances are it would lead to most people playing T&N so I would have to find a small banlist that is easy to uphold, where the signature spell can still be fun. (As they would be taking an instant or sorcery form their deck. So it help their commander, while not being too broken (Hopefully)
I did something similar with something i called a Trump card They did an effect that could not be countered and set your life total to 10 (Could not play the spell unless you had more than 10 life) It could have been a fog, or a wheel, getting a big creature. They did not use the stack and could be played at any time so long as you had 11 or more life) It actually was fun. (And once you played the card it was gone, you only had one chance, even if you gain life to be above 10 again you cannot play the trump card a second time.)
I plan to try again, but make a few sets of the cards so people could choose their trump card and people could have the same one.
i don't understand why some of the cards are on the banlist:
painter's servant? recurring nightmare? really? they're pretty tame in normal EDH as it is.. I suspect that they just started from the EDH banlist as a start, and then just added stuff to it.
And er... before anyone actually breaks it, put reset, early harvest, possibly even rude awakening on a watchlist. even a single mana-doubler in play can get quite out of hand fast. Also possibly bubbling muck.
but yea, i'm reserving judgement before i knock off a couple of games of it though. I've got somewhat low expectations though.
You have to make sure your playgroup is the type who are playing for fun and not to win.
I have fun where the most things are allowed but this format have so many limits compared to regular EDH, that I might just house rule the real Commander instead of referring to this "watered down" version, if my interest is just to play any PW as generals.
Well I want to try to apply the signature spell idea to regular commander, just as a variant. Maybe a game or two a night I can con convince people to give it a shot. (Chances are it would lead to most people playing T&N so I would have to find a small banlist that is easy to uphold, where the signature spell can still be fun. (As they would be taking an instant or sorcery form their deck. So it help their commander, while not being too broken (Hopefully)
I did something similar with something i called a Trump card They did an effect that could not be countered and set your life total to 10 (Could not play the spell unless you had more than 10 life) It could have been a fog, or a wheel, getting a big creature. They did not use the stack and could be played at any time so long as you had 11 or more life) It actually was fun. (And once you played the card it was gone, you only had one chance, even if you gain life to be above 10 again you cannot play the trump card a second time.)
I plan to try again, but make a few sets of the cards so people could choose their trump card and people could have the same one.
That has nothing to do of what I was talking about in the phrase you quoted above. I was specifically talking about the limits of the format (low life, low deck size, only PW as general, bad banlist etc.) and that's why I said that at that point I will just house rule the main EDH format to allow PW as generals (which is making only 1 additional house rule of the official format) instead of adding 4-5 different type of house rules for a home-made variant of said official format.
You have to make sure your playgroup is the type who are playing for fun and not to win.
I have fun where the most things are allowed but this format have so many limits compared to regular EDH, that I might just house rule the real Commander instead of referring to this "watered down" version, if my interest is just to play any PW as generals.
Well I want to try to apply the signature spell idea to regular commander, just as a variant. Maybe a game or two a night I can con convince people to give it a shot. (Chances are it would lead to most people playing T&N so I would have to find a small banlist that is easy to uphold, where the signature spell can still be fun. (As they would be taking an instant or sorcery form their deck. So it help their commander, while not being too broken (Hopefully)
I did something similar with something i called a Trump card They did an effect that could not be countered and set your life total to 10 (Could not play the spell unless you had more than 10 life) It could have been a fog, or a wheel, getting a big creature. They did not use the stack and could be played at any time so long as you had 11 or more life) It actually was fun. (And once you played the card it was gone, you only had one chance, even if you gain life to be above 10 again you cannot play the trump card a second time.)
I plan to try again, but make a few sets of the cards so people could choose their trump card and people could have the same one.
That has nothing to do of what I was talking about in the phrase you quoted above. I was specifically talking about the limits of the format (low life, low deck size, only PW as general, bad banlist etc.) and that's why I said that at that point I will just house rule the main EDH format to allow PW as generals (which is making only 1 additional house rule of the official format) instead of adding 4-5 different type of house rules for a home-made variant of said official format.
Sorry went on a tangent.
Yea House ruling PWs would be a fair change but at the same time, they can still be just as broken. Nicol bolas superfriends can still be oppressive.
they can still be just as broken. Nicol bolas superfriends can still be oppressive.
Yeah they can be surely broken if somebody wanna break them but certainly not as broken as in the Oathbreaker format. Because without the multiple recurring of the broken signature spells always available, games will have a higher variance, less repetitive, and therefore, less chances to be degenerate and brokens in the same boring way. And so, a better gameplay. Not perfect, but better.
Anyway, I believe that basically every planeswalker -except maybe Sorin Markov and very few others- no matter how oppressive, is perfectly manageable in a multiplayer and political environment.
I understand why it is there but I feel the Partner Planseswalkers getting 2 of the spells seems a tad on the overpowered side.
6 mana is a lot in Oathbreaker, especially in colors that have to rely on artifacts or rituals to ramp. In my experience with Oathbreaker the Kenrith Twins are actually pretty low tier. YMMV.
Anytime I try to brew a new deck for Oathbreaker it always feels as though there aren't enough Planeswalkers with loyalty abilities that synergize well with other Instants and / or Sorceries as the Signature Spell where I often feel like I'm stuck having to go with a tribal theme around a specific creature type and play Aggro. If my Oathbreaker is Garruk Wildspeaker I run Beasts, Sarkhan I run Dragons, Elspeth with Soldiers, and the list goes on. Lord Windgrace does have synergy with Crop Rotation as his Signature Spell, as does Jace Beleren with Show and Tell as his Signature Spell. So maybe I'm not looking hard enough while browsing through other Planeswalkers and Instants / Sorceries to try to center a strategy toward.
Planeswalkers seem to have the least amount of power creep compared to Legendary Creatures which could explain my dilemma when brewing for Oathbreaker. Superfriends only appears to be more broken in EDH / Commander due to having 40 extra cards / 20 extra life where as the 60 card deck limit in Oathbreaker seems to hinder it's consistency from focusing less on the Oathbreaker itself. In other words, you can easily get away with not having to cast your Commander in a regular EDH / Commander game compared to being required to cast your Oathbreaker due to the significance of the Signature Spell you're running. Can a Oathbreaker deck function without having to rely on either the Oathbreaker and / or Signature Spell?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Seeing the busted mana banned is a huge draw at least.
The banlist has some serious flaws but they get this right. When you combine the removal of the most egregious fast mana with having lower life totals it seems like the format won't be as defined by ramp -> bomb or combo strategies. Magic at its core is defined by 20 life, and as EDH demonstrates, strange things happen when you twist and warp that rule. I like that the philosophy of the format takes that into consideration.
To anyone who actually plays, how aggressive is the format? With lower life totals and lots of juicy planeswalkers to attack, it seems like there will be lots and lots of creatures entering the red zone. I prefer to play creature-light control decks (as evidenced by my earlier quickie decklist) and was worried that I would just get run over by other decks packing lots of creatures.
i don't understand why some of the cards are on the banlist:
painter's servant? recurring nightmare? really? they're pretty tame in normal EDH as it is.. I suspect that they just started from the EDH banlist as a start, and then just added stuff to it.
And er... before anyone actually breaks it, put reset, early harvest, possibly even rude awakening on a watchlist. even a single mana-doubler in play can get quite out of hand fast. Also possibly bubbling muck.
but yea, i'm reserving judgement before i knock off a couple of games of it though. I've got somewhat low expectations though.
Those cards were already banned in edh. Seems hard for them to be pretty tame if they are not legal to play??
Those cards were already banned in edh. Seems hard for them to be pretty tame if they are not legal to play??
True, but the EDH banlist is good only for that specifically EDH envinroment. Or maybe is simply wrong in some place. That's why French, Leviathan and MTGO Commander all got a different banlist from the traditional one.
For example, I will never understand the sense of the banning of Painter Servant. Yes, is a combo with Iona or Grindstone, but in EDH there are billions of way to end the game with only 2 cards and the Servant alone is not an oppressive threat and can be perfectly played in casual ways. Not to mention that Mycosinth Lattice gives the exact same troubles and even larger game-ending combo to exploit than Servant and that is a legal card.
Those cards were already banned in edh. Seems hard for them to be pretty tame if they are not legal to play??
True, but the EDH banlist is good only for that specifically EDH envinroment. Or maybe is simply wrong in some place. That's why French, Leviathan and MTGO Commander all got a different banlist from the traditional one.
For example, I will never understand the sense of the banning of Painter Servant. Yes, is a combo with Iona or Grindstone, but in EDH there are billions of way to end the game with only 2 cards and the Servant alone is not an oppressive threat and can be perfectly played in casual ways. Not to mention that Mycosinth Lattice gives the exact same troubles and even larger game-ending combo to exploit than Servant and that is a legal card.
I agree with this. I feel pannter ashould unbanned and instead ban iiona and grindstone.
But the ban list discussion should be in the banlist discussion forum.
i just meant that i can see having reset or some other untap all lands instant as the commander-spell + some number of lands/mana-doubler is a pretty sure-fire way to net infinite mana.
I like the idea of a 20 life format, though I'd actually wanna see some sort of errata to the rules to remove 'player elimination' from the game. Maybe something like when the first player gets killed from the game, at the end of that turn, the player with the highest life total wins (or something like that). this way, the table actually has reason to help the player who's going to lose AND remove the annoying waiting part of the 'game' (my favourite deck is famous for killing itself really quickly, so i do this a lot).
Is this format still somewhat mouldable still? or is it pretty much set in stone? some people in my playgroup has suddenly gotten really into this, so on the off-chance this sticks (unlike tiny leaders etc), i wanna make sure the rules are discussed/challenged enough that it's a significant step up from EDH.
Just to add some clarity on what constitutes as "strong/consistent enough to be potentially banned in Oathbreaker", here's the 4 things one of their RC members have said are on the watch list.
1) Remaining fast mana rocks (Mox Diamond etc). This is to address the topic of consistency with their philosophy on fast mana, but also to close the gap between the "haves and have nots". Considering how easy Sol Ring is to access compared to a Mox Diamond for most players, I get the point here. Especially when one of the strongest archetypes is artifact storm with Saheeli or Tezzeret.
2) Mana Severance. If you've seen the Jace, Wielder of Mysteries + 58 Islands meme deck, you'll get why this is being considered. The deck isn't 100% overpowered, but it sets up an annoying dynamic of "kill this player before turn 6, now play the actual game." There are faster decks, there are stronger and more resilient decks, but there are no decks that come with the 100% certainty of winning of turn 6 without interaction.
3) The Elderspell. Although the pairing with new Bolas is very strong, this has been seen as an antithesis of the format. You're playing to use PWs as your commander with some cool synergies, this is bringing a full stop to that with the likelihood of a free ultimate out of it for 2 mana.
4) Narset, Parter of Veils. We're all familiar with this, but even the "fairer" decks that put something like a Force of Will in their signature slot still pack all the Windfall effects she abuses. Decks that sneak her into the 58 will also create a slog to overcome. Absolutely a chore to play against, even if it doesn't always win.
Other than that, there's a worrying tendency for players to just slap a board wipe in the command zone that is likely one sided (Sarkhan, Fireblood with Magmaquake, Ugin, the Ineffable with All Is Dust). Not sure what they could do to address that, it doesn't seem creative or interesting and creates a few stalls where no one plays anything once it is online.
They have also stated that "banned as Oathbreaker/Signature Spell" is very unlikely to be a thing vs an all out ban.
Black also got The elderspell, which can allow nicol bolas, dragon-god to win games.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/huatlis-hatebears/
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Sleep
Creatures (10)
1 Thrummingbird
1 Guildpact Informant
1 Flux Channeler
1 Viral Drake
1 Hunted Phantasm
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Niblis of Frost
1 Mischievous Quanar
1 Guardian of Tazeem
1 Frost Titan
Instants (8)
1 Clockspinning
1 Steady Progress
1 Fuel for the Cause
1 Reality Spasm
1 Turnabout
1 Ensnare
1 Mind Games
1 Icy Blast
1 Contentious Plan
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Theft of Dreams
1 Borrowing 100,000 Arrows
Artifact (10)
1 Sky Diamond
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Eye of Ramos
1 Mind Stone
1 Hedron Archive
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Expedition Map
1 Thought Vessel
1 Venser's Journal
Enchantment (4)
1 Frozen Aether
1 Opposition
1 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Dream Tides
13 Island
1 Coral Atoll
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Remote Isle
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Terrain Generator
1 Karn's Bastion
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
EDIT: Sol Ring is banned. I like this format.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
- Small library and lifes is exactly what I avoid when playing commander, so I find a bad idea to make this format similar to the regular ones. Already I'm in trouble to know what to cut because 100 cards limit are not enough for me, and the highest is the variance with cards the most fresher and more fun are the games imho.
- the signature spell is a bad idea due to the abuses you are allowed to do in sinergy with your general
- Having the choice to play only with a Planeswalkers and only against others planeswalkers feels terribly boring and limiting. The ideal would be to make both choices available, in order to have a much higher variance of decks and games.
- I don't like banlists where fast mana is banned. One of the main reasons I play EDH, as a Timmy player, is that I want to have the chance to make big flashy junk viable in both a casual and competitive envinroment.
So no, this format is not for me.
1 Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God
1 Deliver Unto Evil
Lands: 25
1 Ash Barrens
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Command Tower
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Graven Cairns
4 Island
1 Mana Confluence
2 Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Dimir Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
Sorceries: 12
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Crux of Fate
1 Damnation
1 Dark Petition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Hour of Devastation
1 Languish
1 Painful Truths
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Read the Bones
1 The Elderspell
1 Bedevil
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterflux
1 Counterspell
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Disallow
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbid
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Negate
1 Pull from Tomorrow
1 Supreme Will
1 Terminate
1 Vampiric Tutor
30(!) mana sources is probably excessive, maybe cut the Talismans and a land for another counter, wipe, and card draw spell.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
(Synergy not sinergy)
I agree with the signature spell. But not that it grants synergy, (Though it does) I feel the signature spell can actually break the game completely, there are lists of Oathbreaker combos that make the game unfun. I mean I feel this has more staying power than Brawl (Since it is an eternal format, and created by fans, not wotC) But at the same time, it might not well if people go for the "dick moves" and try to build oppressive combinations. I have already found over a dozen broken combos. Both from searching and experimentation. I bet with a bit more effort I can find even more broken combos which really hurts this format. You have to make sure your playgroup is the type who are playing for fun and not to win. (I know the difference, i have two decks, one for fun (Dragons) and one to win (Jhoira))
I have fun where the most things are allowed but this format have so many limits compared to regular EDH, that I might just house rule the real Commander instead of referring to this "watered down" version, if my interest is just to play any PW as generals.
Well I want to try to apply the signature spell idea to regular commander, just as a variant. Maybe a game or two a night I can con convince people to give it a shot. (Chances are it would lead to most people playing T&N so I would have to find a small banlist that is easy to uphold, where the signature spell can still be fun. (As they would be taking an instant or sorcery form their deck. So it help their commander, while not being too broken (Hopefully)
I did something similar with something i called a Trump card They did an effect that could not be countered and set your life total to 10 (Could not play the spell unless you had more than 10 life) It could have been a fog, or a wheel, getting a big creature. They did not use the stack and could be played at any time so long as you had 11 or more life) It actually was fun. (And once you played the card it was gone, you only had one chance, even if you gain life to be above 10 again you cannot play the trump card a second time.)
I plan to try again, but make a few sets of the cards so people could choose their trump card and people could have the same one.
painter's servant? recurring nightmare? really? they're pretty tame in normal EDH as it is.. I suspect that they just started from the EDH banlist as a start, and then just added stuff to it.
And er... before anyone actually breaks it, put reset, early harvest, possibly even rude awakening on a watchlist. even a single mana-doubler in play can get quite out of hand fast. Also possibly bubbling muck.
but yea, i'm reserving judgement before i knock off a couple of games of it though. I've got somewhat low expectations though.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
That has nothing to do of what I was talking about in the phrase you quoted above. I was specifically talking about the limits of the format (low life, low deck size, only PW as general, bad banlist etc.) and that's why I said that at that point I will just house rule the main EDH format to allow PW as generals (which is making only 1 additional house rule of the official format) instead of adding 4-5 different type of house rules for a home-made variant of said official format.
Sorry went on a tangent.
Yea House ruling PWs would be a fair change but at the same time, they can still be just as broken. Nicol bolas superfriends can still be oppressive.
Yeah they can be surely broken if somebody wanna break them but certainly not as broken as in the Oathbreaker format. Because without the multiple recurring of the broken signature spells always available, games will have a higher variance, less repetitive, and therefore, less chances to be degenerate and brokens in the same boring way. And so, a better gameplay. Not perfect, but better.
Anyway, I believe that basically every planeswalker -except maybe Sorin Markov and very few others- no matter how oppressive, is perfectly manageable in a multiplayer and political environment.
6 mana is a lot in Oathbreaker, especially in colors that have to rely on artifacts or rituals to ramp. In my experience with Oathbreaker the Kenrith Twins are actually pretty low tier. YMMV.
Planeswalkers seem to have the least amount of power creep compared to Legendary Creatures which could explain my dilemma when brewing for Oathbreaker. Superfriends only appears to be more broken in EDH / Commander due to having 40 extra cards / 20 extra life where as the 60 card deck limit in Oathbreaker seems to hinder it's consistency from focusing less on the Oathbreaker itself. In other words, you can easily get away with not having to cast your Commander in a regular EDH / Commander game compared to being required to cast your Oathbreaker due to the significance of the Signature Spell you're running. Can a Oathbreaker deck function without having to rely on either the Oathbreaker and / or Signature Spell?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Seeing the busted mana banned is a huge draw at least.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
To anyone who actually plays, how aggressive is the format? With lower life totals and lots of juicy planeswalkers to attack, it seems like there will be lots and lots of creatures entering the red zone. I prefer to play creature-light control decks (as evidenced by my earlier quickie decklist) and was worried that I would just get run over by other decks packing lots of creatures.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Those cards were already banned in edh. Seems hard for them to be pretty tame if they are not legal to play??
True, but the EDH banlist is good only for that specifically EDH envinroment. Or maybe is simply wrong in some place. That's why French, Leviathan and MTGO Commander all got a different banlist from the traditional one.
For example, I will never understand the sense of the banning of Painter Servant. Yes, is a combo with Iona or Grindstone, but in EDH there are billions of way to end the game with only 2 cards and the Servant alone is not an oppressive threat and can be perfectly played in casual ways. Not to mention that Mycosinth Lattice gives the exact same troubles and even larger game-ending combo to exploit than Servant and that is a legal card.
I agree with this. I feel pannter ashould unbanned and instead ban iiona and grindstone.
But the ban list discussion should be in the banlist discussion forum.
I like the idea of a 20 life format, though I'd actually wanna see some sort of errata to the rules to remove 'player elimination' from the game. Maybe something like when the first player gets killed from the game, at the end of that turn, the player with the highest life total wins (or something like that). this way, the table actually has reason to help the player who's going to lose AND remove the annoying waiting part of the 'game' (my favourite deck is famous for killing itself really quickly, so i do this a lot).
Is this format still somewhat mouldable still? or is it pretty much set in stone? some people in my playgroup has suddenly gotten really into this, so on the off-chance this sticks (unlike tiny leaders etc), i wanna make sure the rules are discussed/challenged enough that it's a significant step up from EDH.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
1) Remaining fast mana rocks (Mox Diamond etc). This is to address the topic of consistency with their philosophy on fast mana, but also to close the gap between the "haves and have nots". Considering how easy Sol Ring is to access compared to a Mox Diamond for most players, I get the point here. Especially when one of the strongest archetypes is artifact storm with Saheeli or Tezzeret.
2) Mana Severance. If you've seen the Jace, Wielder of Mysteries + 58 Islands meme deck, you'll get why this is being considered. The deck isn't 100% overpowered, but it sets up an annoying dynamic of "kill this player before turn 6, now play the actual game." There are faster decks, there are stronger and more resilient decks, but there are no decks that come with the 100% certainty of winning of turn 6 without interaction.
3) The Elderspell. Although the pairing with new Bolas is very strong, this has been seen as an antithesis of the format. You're playing to use PWs as your commander with some cool synergies, this is bringing a full stop to that with the likelihood of a free ultimate out of it for 2 mana.
4) Narset, Parter of Veils. We're all familiar with this, but even the "fairer" decks that put something like a Force of Will in their signature slot still pack all the Windfall effects she abuses. Decks that sneak her into the 58 will also create a slog to overcome. Absolutely a chore to play against, even if it doesn't always win.
Other than that, there's a worrying tendency for players to just slap a board wipe in the command zone that is likely one sided (Sarkhan, Fireblood with Magmaquake, Ugin, the Ineffable with All Is Dust). Not sure what they could do to address that, it doesn't seem creative or interesting and creates a few stalls where no one plays anything once it is online.
They have also stated that "banned as Oathbreaker/Signature Spell" is very unlikely to be a thing vs an all out ban.
what happens if you use a split or fuse card like Invert // Invent or Turn // Burn as signature spells?
what happens with a card like Summoning Trap that says "you may pay 0 rather than pay the cost" do you still pay the tax?
i think this might be the same as the previous question but if a card has an alternative cost like Earthen Arms awaken cost do you pay tax on that?