Whats is Crimson Wisps used for? Just giving our general haste?
Wisps was originally used as a way to give Krosan Restorer haste so you didn't have to wait a turn to untap with it so you could combo. Making it a 3-4 card combo instead of a 2-3 card combo. While at the same time cycling for an off color mana or giving CoA surprise haste to swing ftw with general damage. If you're not running Restorer/Freed combo, it's probably not worth it though.
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Had one game now where I got to play Oblivion Strike. It got rid of an Avacyn, Angel of Hope that was about to royally screw my day, so so far it's been worth it already. I mean sure there's Unmake and Scour from Existence, but the low color requirement makes this a good in between option if your meta is high on indestructibles.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I slightly changed my list.
In: Holdout Settlement, Oblivion Strike, and Pulse of Murasa.
Out: Island, Scour from Existence, and Rewind.
Trading removals was easy, I'm ready to earlier threats now, I guess.
That rainbow land will have to prove its value or else the Island comes back
I dislike too much counterspells (mainly in multiplayer) so now I have 7, enough for me, I guess. These and tutors should suffice given commander nukes. So trading a Counterspell effect for a Regrowth one is pretty fair IMO.
Will test when I have time but I'm excited about these cards, mainly Pulse of Murasa. It brings me back mainly the commander or sometimes a transmute dork which I can reuse (synergy!), and gain life in the process.
I want to build this on mtgo, but I was wondering if it's possible to put your general in the graveyerd. Is there some way to do that?
If your commander would be put in the graveyard, it is your choice to let it go there, or to send it to the Command Zone as a replacement effect. In our case, you have to let Child of Alara go to the graveyard to get the board wipe trigger.
You can't just send it to the graveyard because you feel like it, though. You need to kill it with something like Terminate, or sac it with something like Sidisi's Faithful.
I want to build this on mtgo, but I was wondering if it's possible to put your general in the graveyerd. Is there some way to do that?
You click on your commander similar to how you would if you were activating an abillity of him. This opens a menu. One of the lines in the menu will say something like: put your commander in the command zone not in the graveyard. Click on that. It will close down the menu and you are done. You can verify that you did it correctly by clicking on him again and the line should say something like: put your commander in the graveyard not the command zone
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
I want to build this on mtgo, but I was wondering if it's possible to put your general in the graveyerd. Is there some way to do that?
You click on your commander similar to how you would if you were activating an abillity of him. This opens a menu. One of the lines in the menu will say something like: put your commander in the command zone not in the graveyard. Click on that. It will close down the menu and you are done. You can verify that you did it correctly by clicking on him again and the line should say something like: put your commander in the graveyard not the command zone
That was the exact information I was looking for Reaper, thank you! Sorry I wasn't more clear d0su.
A question about your deck list d0su, I managed to put it together on mtgo, but I am short Red Elemental Blast. Is Blue Elemental Blast an alright replacement?
Hey guys, just wanted to get some input on Deprive. I'm running the Cloud of Faeries list with a decent number of ETB effect lands and this card seems to be a sweet way to re-up on these while also being another counterspell. Didn't know if anyone else has had much experience with it or would recommend it.
I still run both. There's no cheaper way to blow up child at instant speed, and they oppose decks with blue which are probably the only ones you might lose to anyway.
I kinda like Deprive with Mortuary Mire and friends in our list now. It also adds utility to Merchant Scroll. It definitely merits testing IMO - let us know how it works out! I might even try to make room for it in my list.
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As I mentioned before, I'm going to add in Deprive, probably overRewind. I'm also considering adding Reap and Sow, Azorius Chancery, and some of the other ETB lands. Very open to suggestions on how to make room. I've always wanted this deck to move towards a more land-centric theme, and the pieces that are necessary for that to be a reality are starting to finally come to fruition.
Pieces of the Puzzle
2U
Sorcery
Reveal the top five cards of your library. Put up to two instant and/or sorcery cards from among them into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.
And yes, it's a common. I think it's very workable in this deck, given the deck mostly focussing on non-permanent stuff anyway.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Mulch-type cards are unpredictable. No list I've seen runs more than 40 instants + sorceries. So best case, 2/5 of the deck are viable targets. The hypergeometric distribution is then as follows:
more than 2 inst+sorc: 31%
exactly 2: 35%
exactly 1: 27%
0: 7%
As far as CA goes, you'll only beat Divination one third of the time and you'll be worse than Divination about as often. At points in the game where you value business over lands though, Pieces of the Puzzle has the edge on Divination. All in all, I wouldn't say it quite measures up to the power of Read the Bones or Compulsive Research at the same mana cost, but is comparable in power to Forbidden Alchemy. Graveyard-centric builds may want this and Alchemy both.
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I found this one and thought it'd be a good card in my Azorius Tiny Leaders deck, replacing Uncovered Clues.
This card deserves to be tested here also but we must have in mind there's about 60 non-land slots to work here, and digging should have a limited space here otherwise you'll be eventually short of business cards. Pieces of the Puzzle is a sorcery and searches for some types of cards only, but it searches up to 2 of these cards. On paper I think it's weaker than Forbidden Alchemy (not to mention the awesome Foresee) but it's worth to test, yes.
It's funny which cards are staples for us... every time a set is released we discuss only commons. I love it!
Is having Trinket Mage in the list a mistake without the artifact lands? As it stands, the only targets are the Spellbombs, Map and Bauble.
Also, a lot of the comments say that Treasure Cruise is bad because of the graveyard recursion theme of the deck. How have you found the card to perform?
Treasure Cruise is one of the best draw spells in the deck. You ideally use it as pseudo-recursion for CoA to get it back into the command zone and cast it for 7. Since this reduces the cost of TC by 1, you only go -1 on the net mana, effectively splicing a Raise Dead effect unto your TC! You can usually afford to exile at least 3 more cards, making TC read: 3U - draw three cards and put CoA in the command zone. Not even Foresee comes close to that kind of power at 4 mana, and TC can be cheaper still, late game.
Trinket Mage, like all tutors, are only worth running if the targets are worth paying extra for. As a rule of thumb, I want my tutors to ideally get me a) a sac outlet, b) a recursion spell and c) some utility or combo piece. Trinket Mage CAN get Expedition Map, which can get things like this, but at that point you're paying 6 extra mana rather than three. So in this deck, other narrow tutors like Expedition Map and Vedalken Aethermage are better than Trinket Mage because they can get bread and butter cards (like Mortuary Mire and Sidisi's Faithful, respectively) immediately. Artifact lands do not make TM worth it either, because paying 3 mana extra for a worse basic land is still a much worse deal than Expedition Map.
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Since Trinket Mage cannot do any of the things you mentioned in the list d0su posted above, what would you replace it with? Also from the above list, I don't understand Grim Harvest being better than Disturbed Burial. They both have the same cmc to cycle, except burial doesn't have the drawback of the potential to not have the mana to recover when another one of your creatures dies unexpectedly so you lose the spell for the rest of the game and can't use your Archaeomancer type etb effects to get it back.
I personally run those four you mention along with Evolution Charm, Reclaim, Reaping the Graves, Dutiful Return and Macabre Waltz, so no, I would say those four you mention alone are definitely not enough graveyard recursion. I'm always happiest to see Disturbed Burial, of course, but all of those pieces offer their own advantages that make them work. You simply cannot rely on getting your Disturbed Burial every game, after all.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Since Trinket Mage cannot do any of the things you mentioned in the list d0su posted above, what would you replace it with? Also from the above list, I don't understand Grim Harvest being better than Disturbed Burial. They both have the same cmc to cycle, except burial doesn't have the drawback of the potential to not have the mana to recover when another one of your creatures dies unexpectedly so you lose the spell for the rest of the game and can't use your Archaeomancer type etb effects to get it back.
I just noticed an error in my decklist you posted. I no longer play Ghostly Flicker. I know it is a powerful card overall, but I found that the setup it took was generally at odds with what my version of the deck was trying to accomplish.
Instead, I am playing Soul Manipulation again for the time being, which gives me 6 direct recursion effects, including Reclaim and those you posted. I am also playing 7 other cards that can directly tutor for one of those if needed, plus some cards that can exile CoA from the graveyard, plus the standard cantrip and library manipulation package. I find I have no trouble recurring CoA enough times to give me an opening to jam the combo.
I have also been considering cutting Rolling Thunder. I don't remember the last time it was uniquely useful.
These are the creature recursion effects I currently run:
Cadaver Imp: The most effective 3 CMC target for when you have Ghostly Flicker + recursion wizard. Probably not worth running without. Shade's Form: The best of the "False Demise" type enchantments since it increases your kill speed. And it's flexible since it can steal opp creature when you already have a recursion spell. Breath of Life: The best Dimir House Guard target, almost as cheap as Shade's Form with fewer timing restrictions. Treasure Cruise: See explanation on previous page. Evolution Charm: Like Mortuary Mire, this is more or less a land slot, so it's basically a free recursion slot. Grim Harvest: You need one engine type card. I prefer this over Reaping the Graves and Disturbed Burial, but you can use whichever. Soul Manipulation: Very good value for mana and it tutors with Merchant Scroll. Also flexible. Undying Evil: The best 1 CMC recursion and it makes Shade's Form look expensive. However, there is a timing restriction. Mortuary Mire: Turns all your land tutors into recursion spells.
In addition I have 12 tutors to find the above cards and 3 recursion that get back inst/sorc or anything. Add it up and 25% of the deck can be recursion, if needed. That gives consistency and still great flexibility since only a handfull of that is dedicated more or less exclusively for CoA recursion.
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Wisps was originally used as a way to give Krosan Restorer haste so you didn't have to wait a turn to untap with it so you could combo. Making it a 3-4 card combo instead of a 2-3 card combo. While at the same time cycling for an off color mana or giving CoA surprise haste to swing ftw with general damage. If you're not running Restorer/Freed combo, it's probably not worth it though.
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Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
In: Holdout Settlement, Oblivion Strike, and Pulse of Murasa.
Out: Island, Scour from Existence, and Rewind.
Trading removals was easy, I'm ready to earlier threats now, I guess.
That rainbow land will have to prove its value or else the Island comes back
I dislike too much counterspells (mainly in multiplayer) so now I have 7, enough for me, I guess. These and tutors should suffice given commander nukes. So trading a Counterspell effect for a Regrowth one is pretty fair IMO.
Will test when I have time but I'm excited about these cards, mainly Pulse of Murasa. It brings me back mainly the commander or sometimes a transmute dork which I can reuse (synergy!), and gain life in the process.
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
You can't just send it to the graveyard because you feel like it, though. You need to kill it with something like Terminate, or sac it with something like Sidisi's Faithful.
Does that answer your question?
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You click on your commander similar to how you would if you were activating an abillity of him. This opens a menu. One of the lines in the menu will say something like: put your commander in the command zone not in the graveyard. Click on that. It will close down the menu and you are done. You can verify that you did it correctly by clicking on him again and the line should say something like: put your commander in the graveyard not the command zone
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A question about your deck list d0su, I managed to put it together on mtgo, but I am short Red Elemental Blast. Is Blue Elemental Blast an alright replacement?
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
I completely forgot that Pyroblast was a card!! Thank you for the suggestion sir!
Actually some old lists ran both bur it's too defensive for my taste.
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
CURRENT DECKS
WUBRG Child of Alara, Pauper Dreamcrusher GRBUW | BGU Muldrotha, Dreamcrusher REDUX UGB | WUB Dreamcrusher Pt. III: Nevinyrral's Disco BUW
I can see the merit of running both. I like it because you can blow up child with it if necessary.
I kinda like Deprive with Mortuary Mire and friends in our list now. It also adds utility to Merchant Scroll. It definitely merits testing IMO - let us know how it works out! I might even try to make room for it in my list.
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1 Child of Alara
Creatures (16)
1 Sidisi's Faithful
1 Spore Frog
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Vedalken Aethermage
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Tilling Treefolk
1 Archaeomancer
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Mulldrifter
Sorceries (12)
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Distrubed Burial
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Cultivate
1 Far Wanderings
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Mind Extraction
1 Read the Bones
1 Deep Analysis
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
1 Dizzy Spell
1 Reclaim
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Altar's Reap
1 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Grim Harvest
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Perilous Research
1 Shred Memory
1 Terminate
1 Capsize
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Perplex
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Reaping the Graves
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Rewind
1 Scour from Existence
Artifacts (4)
1 Expedition Map
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Command Tower
1 Opal Palace
1 Rupture Spire
1 Transguild Promenade
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Barren Moor
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Halimar Depths
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Strip Mine
1 Plains
7 Island
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Forest
As I mentioned before, I'm going to add in Deprive, probably overRewind. I'm also considering adding Reap and Sow, Azorius Chancery, and some of the other ETB lands. Very open to suggestions on how to make room. I've always wanted this deck to move towards a more land-centric theme, and the pieces that are necessary for that to be a reality are starting to finally come to fruition.
CURRENT DECKS
WUBRG Child of Alara, Pauper Dreamcrusher GRBUW | BGU Muldrotha, Dreamcrusher REDUX UGB | WUB Dreamcrusher Pt. III: Nevinyrral's Disco BUW
Pieces of the Puzzle
2U
Sorcery
Reveal the top five cards of your library. Put up to two instant and/or sorcery cards from among them into your hand and the rest into your graveyard.
And yes, it's a common. I think it's very workable in this deck, given the deck mostly focussing on non-permanent stuff anyway.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
more than 2 inst+sorc: 31%
exactly 2: 35%
exactly 1: 27%
0: 7%
As far as CA goes, you'll only beat Divination one third of the time and you'll be worse than Divination about as often. At points in the game where you value business over lands though, Pieces of the Puzzle has the edge on Divination. All in all, I wouldn't say it quite measures up to the power of Read the Bones or Compulsive Research at the same mana cost, but is comparable in power to Forbidden Alchemy. Graveyard-centric builds may want this and Alchemy both.
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This card deserves to be tested here also but we must have in mind there's about 60 non-land slots to work here, and digging should have a limited space here otherwise you'll be eventually short of business cards.
Pieces of the Puzzle is a sorcery and searches for some types of cards only, but it searches up to 2 of these cards. On paper I think it's weaker than Forbidden Alchemy (not to mention the awesome Foresee) but it's worth to test, yes.
It's funny which cards are staples for us... every time a set is released we discuss only commons. I love it!
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
Also, a lot of the comments say that Treasure Cruise is bad because of the graveyard recursion theme of the deck. How have you found the card to perform?
1 Child of Alara
Creatures (17)
1 Sidisi's Faithful
1 Spore Frog
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Tilling Treefolk
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Krosan Restorer
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Trinket Mage
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Mulldrifter
1 Archaeomancer
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Mnemonic Wall
Countermagic (9)
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Arcane Denial
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Counterspell
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Dream Fracture
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Perplex
1 Overrule
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Shred Memory
1 Tragic Slip
1 Devour Flesh
1 Terminate
1 Rend Flesh
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Capsize
Other Bombs and Misc (7)
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Mind Extraction
1 Grim Harvest
1 Reaping the Graves
1 Crimson Wisps
1 Freed from the Real
1 Rolling Thunder
Other Library Manipulation (9)
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Reclaim
1 Dizzy Spell
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Rhystic Study
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Treasure Cruise
Other Nonland Mana (6)
1 Expedition Map
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Far Wanderings
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Halimar Depths
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Strip Mine
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Command Tower
1 Opal Palace
1 Transguild Promenade
1 Rupture Spire
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Bant Panorama
1 Esper Panorama
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Barren Moor
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Secluded Steppe
8 Island
5 Swamp
6 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Plains
Trinket Mage, like all tutors, are only worth running if the targets are worth paying extra for. As a rule of thumb, I want my tutors to ideally get me a) a sac outlet, b) a recursion spell and c) some utility or combo piece. Trinket Mage CAN get Expedition Map, which can get things like this, but at that point you're paying 6 extra mana rather than three. So in this deck, other narrow tutors like Expedition Map and Vedalken Aethermage are better than Trinket Mage because they can get bread and butter cards (like Mortuary Mire and Sidisi's Faithful, respectively) immediately. Artifact lands do not make TM worth it either, because paying 3 mana extra for a worse basic land is still a much worse deal than Expedition Map.
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Is Cadaver Imp, Grim Harvest, Reaping the Graves and Mortuary Mire enough graveyard recursion for this deck to work consistently?
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Instead, I am playing Soul Manipulation again for the time being, which gives me 6 direct recursion effects, including Reclaim and those you posted. I am also playing 7 other cards that can directly tutor for one of those if needed, plus some cards that can exile CoA from the graveyard, plus the standard cantrip and library manipulation package. I find I have no trouble recurring CoA enough times to give me an opening to jam the combo.
I have also been considering cutting Rolling Thunder. I don't remember the last time it was uniquely useful.
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Cadaver Imp: The most effective 3 CMC target for when you have Ghostly Flicker + recursion wizard. Probably not worth running without.
Shade's Form: The best of the "False Demise" type enchantments since it increases your kill speed. And it's flexible since it can steal opp creature when you already have a recursion spell.
Breath of Life: The best Dimir House Guard target, almost as cheap as Shade's Form with fewer timing restrictions.
Treasure Cruise: See explanation on previous page.
Evolution Charm: Like Mortuary Mire, this is more or less a land slot, so it's basically a free recursion slot.
Grim Harvest: You need one engine type card. I prefer this over Reaping the Graves and Disturbed Burial, but you can use whichever.
Soul Manipulation: Very good value for mana and it tutors with Merchant Scroll. Also flexible.
Undying Evil: The best 1 CMC recursion and it makes Shade's Form look expensive. However, there is a timing restriction.
Mortuary Mire: Turns all your land tutors into recursion spells.
In addition I have 12 tutors to find the above cards and 3 recursion that get back inst/sorc or anything. Add it up and 25% of the deck can be recursion, if needed. That gives consistency and still great flexibility since only a handfull of that is dedicated more or less exclusively for CoA recursion.
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