And if you need some help proposing a deck, take a peek at your groups' competitive level, and make a list; just briefly go over the rules and say something like "You have to try a game to really understand it; you'll love it, though; I'd bet a Garruk on it!"
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb: Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
And if you need some help proposing a deck, take a peek at your groups' competitive level, and make a list; just briefly go over the rules and say something like "You have to try a game to really understand it; you'll love it, though; I'd bet a Garruk on it!"
I know everything there is to know about all the users on MTGS. You can never escape........
Naw, at the bottom of the main forum page is "birthdays today" and your name was on it.
Yea, my group is casual-esque...... but im lucky in the fact that they don't care about power level. There content with the ban list and don't question it. I'd say "Just play" is the best way to describe my group
Yea, my group is casual-esque...... but im lucky in the fact that they don't care about power level. There content with the ban list and don't question it. I'd say "Just play" is the best way to describe my group
I would recommend looking at the section in my primer where I talk about looking at cards on the fly, and if they're over-powered (i.e. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite) or under-powered (i.e. Terror), exiling the card and drawing a replacement; it solves most problems
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb: Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
So I've been glancing at mono blue generals that would fit my theme for hero decks (must be humanoid, etc.). I'm having a heck of a time picking though. All of the options that I've found:
So I've been glancing at mono blue generals that would fit my theme for hero decks (must be humanoid, etc.). I'm having a heck of a time picking though. Just a couple of the ones I've found (would list more, but my break at work is almost over):
Braids should just be a grouphug-styled deck with tons-o'-fatties, automatons, and, probably most importantly against the Horde, counter magicks.
Yeah there isn't a downside to using Braids haha. I'm just wondering if she's a tad too powerful. I mean, yes I'm pumping a lot of strength into my horde, but isn't getting a free (insert big creature or artifact here) on turn 5 a tad strong? Imagine getting a Darksteel Colossus on turn 5 for example (I am not putting indestructible guys in my hero decks, but you get the idea). Or what if the Lovisa Coldeyes deck gets a big beater out (and since it's turn 5, cast Lovisa herself for big damage)? I don't doubt Braids power, I just don't think that she is a tad strong to be a general. Maybe as part of the 100 since it won't pop up so often, but as the general it's consistently strong. Thoughts?
Post above updated with all possibilities for mono blue generals.
Yeah there isn't a downside to using Braids haha. I'm just wondering if she's a tad too powerful. I mean, yes I'm pumping a lot of strength into my horde, but isn't getting a free (insert big creature or artifact here) on turn 5 a tad strong? Imagine getting a Darksteel Colossus on turn 5 for example (I am not putting indestructible guys in my hero decks, but you get the idea). Or what if the Lovisa Coldeyes deck gets a big beater out (and since it's turn 5, cast Lovisa herself for big damage)? I don't doubt Braids power, I just don't think that she is a tad strong to be a general. Maybe as part of the 100 since it won't pop up so often, but as the general it's consistently strong. Thoughts?
Post above updated with all possibilities for mono blue generals.
As moxious told me earlier, the horde ideas that he talks about are meant to go up against strong decks. If heroes always win, then ramp up the hordes power level. A good horde game should be overwhelming odds with the heroes squeeking out a victory in my mind. A little more flavorful than most see it, but I like close games.
As moxious told me earlier, the horde ideas that he talks about are meant to go up against strong decks. If heroes always win, then ramp up the hordes power level. A good horde game should be overwhelming odds with the heroes squeeking out a victory in my mind. A little more flavorful than most see it, but I like close games.
Yes it's meant to be a format where the horde wins lots and the heroes have to squeak out wins. Maybe I'm just undervaluing the horde's strength as I'm (planning on) playing a strong list as well (with no colour restrictions so it's even more nuts). Sadly all I have right now is theory and no data, so everything is a guess right now. Thusfar I've made the hero decks decent and the horde strong, so I likely am undervaluing the power of the horde. At the very worst, I can always make a deck with Braid's as the general and just change it if it winds up too strong (I'm also trying to balance the hero decks so one isn't super overpowered while the others are medium).
Yeah there isn't a downside to using Braids haha. I'm just wondering if she's a tad too powerful. I mean, yes I'm pumping a lot of strength into my horde, but isn't getting a free (insert big creature or artifact here) on turn 5 a tad strong? Imagine getting a Darksteel Colossus on turn 5 for example (I am not putting indestructible guys in my hero decks, but you get the idea).
Well, the thing about Braids is you don't build HER deck with fatties; making her ONLY good in larger groups. Maybe if someone plays with her, the Survivors have individual life totals, and everyone has to keep her alive to reap her benefits?
As moxious told me earlier, the horde ideas that he talks about are meant to go up against strong decks. If heroes always win, then ramp up the hordes power level. A good horde game should be overwhelming odds with the heroes squeeking out a victory in my mind. A little more flavorful than most see it, but I like close games.
My version of Horde may be playing 3x Plague Winds, so well-put on upping the Threat Level.
Yes it's meant to be a format where the horde wins lots and the heroes have to squeak out wins. Maybe I'm just undervaluing the horde's strength as I'm (planning on) playing a strong list as well (with no colour restrictions so it's even more nuts). Sadly all I have right now is theory and no data, so everything is a guess right now. Thusfar I've made the hero decks decent and the horde strong, so I likely am undervaluing the power of the horde. At the very worst, I can always make a deck with Braid's as the general and just change it if it winds up too strong (I'm also trying to balance the hero decks so one isn't super overpowered while the others are medium).
If you're using Braids, which I strongly encourage, take my suggestion to heart; try it out for a few games.
As moxious told me earlier, the horde ideas that he talks about are meant to go up against strong decks. If heroes always win, then ramp up the hordes power level. A good horde game should be overwhelming odds with the heroes squeeking out a victory in my mind. A little more flavorful than most see it, but I like close games.
Played some Horde Magic last night, and we had a situation where it started off slow (we had an extra player, so we did 5 players @ 80 life and a 100 card Horde deck, 1 card milled for every 2 damage), but at one point the Horde hit 13 zombies followed by a Damnation. 26 life definitely hurt, but Chain Reaction cleaned that up only to flip into a Plague Wind a couple turns later. Everything was looking good (meaning it was a tight game - the deck was functioning brilliantly), until we eventually hit the Horde for ~60 damage, which milled the rest of the library.
I think we need a lot more discard effects, as we had a couple turns early where we were all drawing a lot of cards. I have 2 copies of Delirium Skeins and 2 Unnerve, but all of them got milled throughout the game (one on a 2 damage swing which caused a 1 card mill that happened to be a Delirium Skeins... we all cheered).
Death Baron also proved to be one hell of an adversary... until he ate a Go for the Throat. I'm considering 4 of them for more of a threat, and maybe 2 Undead Warchief total.
We're shooting for a mono-black, completely decisionless build - here is what I'm looking at as our final first build:
What are your thoughts on Tormod's Crypt/Nihil Spellbomb against the Horde? My friend playing Glissa basically drew it in his opening hand and we kept it open until Army of the Damned hit the graveyard. It also managed to mop up all Moan of the Unhallowed in there as well, making the game seem too predictable and easy to beat.
Maelstrom Pulse and Sever the Bloodline seemed way too powerful as well. I'm all for survival, but these just made us laugh at the Horde. As mentioned in the rules, hoser-type cards like these would gain "Cycling 0", which is what we were also thinking of doing for Planeswalkers since Tezzeret sat there and untapped artifacts all game long. How far do you all go with this rule?
Totally necessary for my Horde. I run Living Death, Living End, Army of the Damned (flashing back immediately to leave 26 zombies on the board), and Yawgmoth's Will. If there isn't a way to deal with the graveyard at instant speed it can be game over a lot of times.
Maelstrom Pulse and Sever the Bloodline seemed way too powerful as well. I'm all for survival, but these just made us laugh at the Horde. As mentioned in the rules, hoser-type cards like these would gain "Cycling 0", which is what we were also thinking of doing for Planeswalkers since Tezzeret sat there and untapped artifacts all game long. How far do you all go with this rule?
Planeswalkers get attacked first, they are like a timewarp for horde, or it gets too out of control.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Well, the thing about Braids is you don't build HER deck with fatties; making her ONLY good in larger groups. Maybe if someone plays with her, the Survivors have individual life totals, and everyone has to keep her alive to reap her benefits?
My version of Horde may be playing 3x Plague Winds, so well-put on upping the Threat Level.
If you're using Braids, which I strongly encourage, take my suggestion to heart; try it out for a few games.
Hmm, interesting. What would you suggest as a theme for the deck then? I'm not too familiar with "group hug" cards in mono blue. I only know the colourless ones such as Howling Mine and Font of Mythos (and I only know those). Would a deck such as this want to play lots of targeted draw so the other players get to draw from her? In other words, make her "class" like a convoy that sits in the back helping out but doing no real fighting?
I'm planning on between 2-4 Plague Wind for my build.
I think we need a lot more discard effects, as we had a couple turns early where we were all drawing a lot of cards. I have 2 copies of Delirium Skeins and 2 Unnerve, but all of them got milled throughout the game (one on a 2 damage swing which caused a 1 card mill that happened to be a Delirium Skeins... we all cheered).
Death Baron also proved to be one hell of an adversary... until he ate a Go for the Throat. I'm considering 4 of them for more of a threat, and maybe 2 Undead Warchief total.
For discard I'm running 4 Delirium Skeins. I'd rather have the larger discard (than unnerve) to punish the heroes just that little bit more. I don't plan on running more than that though as I'd rather push the creature presence. As for Death Baron, I'm currently going to run 2 in my build (mostly due to the fact I only own two haha). My build still isn't finalized (cards need to arrive in the mail already...), but I'm thinking I'll have between 2-4 Undead Warchief. These guys just lay on the hurt as long as there are any number of zombies.
Totally necessary for my Horde. I run Living Death, Living End, Army of the Damned (flashing back immediately to leave 26 zombies on the board), and Yawgmoth's Will. If there isn't a way to deal with the graveyard at instant speed it can be game over a lot of times.
I guess my question was kind of silly, in that it really is reliant on what is in the Horde deck. Ours, for instance, doesn't have Yawgmoth's Will, so the threat of a flashbacked Army of the Damned isn't as horrifying as landing that Yawgmoth's Will late game with a fully-stocked graveyard - that has got to be the worst thing ever.
Planeswalkers get attacked first, they are like a timewarp for horde, or it gets too out of control.
Meh. At that point a Planeswalker seems like a creature that has to block, which makes them a lot less useful than they would be normally, although a Liliana/Tezzeret would be another tutor if nothing else... Maybe a "cycle at your own discretion" sort of thing.
For discard I'm running 4 Delirium Skeins. I'd rather have the larger discard (than unnerve) to punish the heroes just that little bit more. I don't plan on running more than that though as I'd rather push the creature presence. As for Death Baron, I'm currently going to run 2 in my build (mostly due to the fact I only own two haha). My build still isn't finalized (cards need to arrive in the mail already...), but I'm thinking I'll have between 2-4 Undead Warchief. These guys just lay on the hurt as long as there are any number of zombies.
From what we saw last night, 4 Death Barons and 4 Undead Warchiefs make the deck a lot more threatening (which is probably why I run 4 of each in my actual zombie deck). I think the punishment thing is right on, and even though we didn't hit either Skeins or Unnerve, I'll look to switch that to 4 Delirium Skeins.
Meh. At that point a Planeswalker seems like a creature that has to block, which makes them a lot less useful than they would be normally, although a Liliana/Tezzeret would be another tutor if nothing else... Maybe a "cycle at your own discretion" sort of thing.
The thing is that keeping planeswalkers out is generally a huge advantage to the heroes. If I'm able to keep that Jace, the Mind Sculptor for more than the one turn, the card advantage and ability to filter what I need is outrageous. By getting the horde to always attack walkers first, it prevents these out of control situations from happening. If the heroes really want to keep a strong walker out, they must pay the price and have a good defensive position first. Keeping that Karn Liberated or Liliana Vess out needs to require effort rather than be an automatic continuous advantage.
From what we saw last night, 4 Death Barons and 4 Undead Warchiefs make the deck a lot more threatening (which is probably why I run 4 of each in my actual zombie deck). I think the punishment thing is right on, and even though we didn't hit either Skeins or Unnerve, I'll look to switch that to 4 Delirium Skeins.
I lucked out in that a guy at my FNM has two Death Baron lying around. I'll be getting these in the next couple of weeks so I'll be able to add them to my horde. I'm definitely a fan of discard in the horde. One has to press the attack to try and mill the troublesome cards out, but then you can be hit with a big counter-attack just as easily. Not only that, but if you're playing around Plague Wind, Delirium Skeins can come and wreck your day. The opposite is true in that if you play around Delirium Skeins, Plague Wind can come and wreck your day. All the pain that can be sent the heroes way is a great way to make the heroes cooperate and find a game plan to avoid these situations.
On a different note, I've been thinking about who I could use for UR in the future as a hero. The two I've been deciding on are Nin, the Pain Artist and Jhoira of the Ghitu.
Jhoira seems to be an "all-in" type deck (summoner class maybe?) that has great ability to make some of her creatures dodge removal (while suspended). The pros are that she can cheat in big dudes easily and she can also put in benefitial artifacts and whatnot. The cons are that she's very slow (her first possible creature (via effect) if no mana accel happens is turn 8. She's also very suceptable to Plague Wind, though she is great at avoiding Delirium Skeins thanks to her effect.
Nin seems to be a decent group commander. She takes a more back-seat role that can help her allies draw cards. She seems more like the medic from Team Fortress 2 in that she'll help you and wreck your enemies if necessary. A big pro is drawing for you and your allies. Another pro is that she can take out a zombie if the situation calls for it. A con is that her mana is often tied up for her effect rather than casting other cards. She seems a tad weak for combat situations unless she's allowing the zombies to draw cards.
So what do you all think? I have an idea how the Jhoira deck would be built, but I have no clue how I'd build the Nin deck. So if you choose Nin (or just want to give ideas), please provide idea(s) for her deck.
If you missed it in my list, Dark Suspicions is one card I'm on the fence about. On one hand, early game it will just destroy the heroes life total. Late game it could just sit there doing nothing. The odds of having a blue player with draw effects is certainly decent though, in which case this enchantment alone hits for loads of damage. Let me know what you all think.
I have 1 card that I'd like to fit in, but can't seem to do it. Does anybody have suggestions as to what to switch (if at all) and why?
I'm aware that the Sutured Ghoul would be the exact opposite of what an Empty the Catacombs (and others) deck would want, but if it was made the "boss monster" of the deck... That being said, a simple bounce spell wrecks him. (Now that I think of it, he's a horrible idea)
I've also thought about putting Phyrexian Crusader in. Anybody have thoughts on this? I can't help but think 4 of these guys would just help wreck face. The pro red saves him from the "sniper" deck, the pro white stops damage absorbers, and the first strike allows weakening of strong blockers pretty well guaranteed. I think they'd be worth it. Anybody else consider them?
Also, as I'm not limiting myself to mono-black, does anybody have any suggestions of non-black (I know lots of black cards due to the standard mono-black theme being used by others) cards that could improve this deck?
I've also thought about putting Phyrexian Crusader in. Anybody have thoughts on this? I can't help but think 4 of these guys would just help wreck face. The pro red saves him from the "sniper" deck, the pro white stops damage absorbers, and the first strike allows weakening of strong blockers pretty well guaranteed. I think they'd be worth it. Anybody else consider them?
I run 2 of them, 3 Scourge Servant, and I think 2 Toxic Nim. Infect adds such a weird dynamic though. Sometimes I am relieved that it's ~just~ 3 poison counters and others it's instant death.
So thanks to a buddy of mine, I've found a great card to add to horde decks. What's better than Yawgmoth's Will? How about Praetor's Counsel! With this, you don't need to worry about any of your cards being exiled if they hit the grave (from Yawgmoth's Will), which would mess up Time Reversal. Same effect in the sense that you get everything back, but no draw-back. I'm thinking that this is a home-run in the horde and plan on making room for one (I'm thinking of taking out one of the Noxious Ghoul's for it). Since I'm not limiting myself to black only, what are your thoughts? Should I keep the Noxious Ghoul and drop something else?
Not much in terms of changes, but the 8 lords make it mean. It either loses due to over control on the survivors part (usually when my buddy plays Glissa), or it stomps us dead.
Also, saw an idea for a "Final Boss", and thought I would present our own idea, which is similar but a little different:
1. When the Boss comes into play, the Horde graveyard is exiled. (We were also thinking about having all token creatures exiled as well, to give it more of a hero-only feel, although token decks would be no good at that point)
2. The Boss has HP, represented in the power/toughness box. The Boss cannot "lose life", but it can be dealt combat and non-combat damage. The Boss loses once its HP is reduced to 0.
3. During each of the Boss' turns, it rolls a six-sided die. A roll of 2 or 4 is a miss for the Boss, and a roll of 6 is a re-roll. Any other number is represented as an activated ability on the Boss card.
4. The Boss is not a "Permanent", it cannot be targeted by any spells, nor can it have its activated abilities targeted. (Although a Boss may have a type, it does not affect things like Soulless One)
5. During the survivors turn, the Boss cannot be attacked by more than 5 creatures at once.
6. While the Boss is in play, players cannot take extra phases (i.e. Aggravated Assault) or extra turns (i.e. Time Walk). (We were also thinking about not allowing tutoring while the Boss is in play)
These rules and the Boss itself haven't been tested yet. We'll be getting together at some point this week to play, so we'll test it out and I'll get back to everyone. I have high hopes for it, and I can't wait to try it out.
Also, Happy Birthday Moxious One
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyAnd if you need some help proposing a deck, take a peek at your groups' competitive level, and make a list; just briefly go over the rules and say something like "You have to try a game to really understand it; you'll love it, though; I'd bet a Garruk on it!"
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I know everything there is to know about all the users on MTGS. You can never escape........
Yea, my group is casual-esque...... but im lucky in the fact that they don't care about power level. There content with the ban list and don't question it. I'd say "Just play" is the best way to describe my group
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU-
I would recommend looking at the section in my primer where I talk about looking at cards on the fly, and if they're over-powered (i.e. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite) or under-powered (i.e. Terror), exiling the card and drawing a replacement; it solves most problems
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Ambassador Laquatus (It's a way to incorporate mill into fighting the horde. Seems like a mono blue way of messing with the zombies)
Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Blue loves drawing cards)
Barrin, Master Wizard (Bounce isn't too impressive, but it can keep threats off the table)
Braids, Conjurer Adept (I'm thinking too powerful against the horde)
Ertai, Wizard Adept (Yes it's a counter each turn, but until later turns in the game it's all the blue player will get to do. Seems fair as the non-token card will likely get countered every time)
Hakim, Loreweaver
Heidar, Rimewind Master (Yes bounce isn't that good in horde, but if you bounce the right card it can save you)
Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
Ixidor, Reality Sculptor
Kaho, Minamo Historian
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Rayne, Academy Chancellor
Sakashima The Impostor
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir (Being able to keep counter magic open and if you don't need to counter than instead flash in a threat seems good)
Uyo, Silent Prophet
I think Braids, Conjurer Adept seems well. If im not mistaken, there is no downside.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyEDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Yeah there isn't a downside to using Braids haha. I'm just wondering if she's a tad too powerful. I mean, yes I'm pumping a lot of strength into my horde, but isn't getting a free (insert big creature or artifact here) on turn 5 a tad strong? Imagine getting a Darksteel Colossus on turn 5 for example (I am not putting indestructible guys in my hero decks, but you get the idea). Or what if the Lovisa Coldeyes deck gets a big beater out (and since it's turn 5, cast Lovisa herself for big damage)? I don't doubt Braids power, I just don't think that she is a tad strong to be a general. Maybe as part of the 100 since it won't pop up so often, but as the general it's consistently strong. Thoughts?
Post above updated with all possibilities for mono blue generals.
As moxious told me earlier, the horde ideas that he talks about are meant to go up against strong decks. If heroes always win, then ramp up the hordes power level. A good horde game should be overwhelming odds with the heroes squeeking out a victory in my mind. A little more flavorful than most see it, but I like close games.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyYes it's meant to be a format where the horde wins lots and the heroes have to squeak out wins. Maybe I'm just undervaluing the horde's strength as I'm (planning on) playing a strong list as well (with no colour restrictions so it's even more nuts). Sadly all I have right now is theory and no data, so everything is a guess right now. Thusfar I've made the hero decks decent and the horde strong, so I likely am undervaluing the power of the horde. At the very worst, I can always make a deck with Braid's as the general and just change it if it winds up too strong (I'm also trying to balance the hero decks so one isn't super overpowered while the others are medium).
Well, the thing about Braids is you don't build HER deck with fatties; making her ONLY good in larger groups. Maybe if someone plays with her, the Survivors have individual life totals, and everyone has to keep her alive to reap her benefits?
My version of Horde may be playing 3x Plague Winds, so well-put on upping the Threat Level.
If you're using Braids, which I strongly encourage, take my suggestion to heart; try it out for a few games.
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Played some Horde Magic last night, and we had a situation where it started off slow (we had an extra player, so we did 5 players @ 80 life and a 100 card Horde deck, 1 card milled for every 2 damage), but at one point the Horde hit 13 zombies followed by a Damnation. 26 life definitely hurt, but Chain Reaction cleaned that up only to flip into a Plague Wind a couple turns later. Everything was looking good (meaning it was a tight game - the deck was functioning brilliantly), until we eventually hit the Horde for ~60 damage, which milled the rest of the library.
I think we need a lot more discard effects, as we had a couple turns early where we were all drawing a lot of cards. I have 2 copies of Delirium Skeins and 2 Unnerve, but all of them got milled throughout the game (one on a 2 damage swing which caused a 1 card mill that happened to be a Delirium Skeins... we all cheered).
Death Baron also proved to be one hell of an adversary... until he ate a Go for the Throat. I'm considering 4 of them for more of a threat, and maybe 2 Undead Warchief total.
We're shooting for a mono-black, completely decisionless build - here is what I'm looking at as our final first build:
70 Zombie Tokens
5 Zombie Giant Tokens
Non-Token Zombies (11)
4 Death Baron
2 Undead Warchief
4 Cackling Fiend
1 Grave Titan
1 Damnation
1 Living Death
1 Plague Wind
Other Spells (11)
4 Moan of the Unhallowed
1 Army of the Damned
1 Call to the Grave
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
2 Delirium Skeins
2 Unnerve
What are your thoughts on Tormod's Crypt/Nihil Spellbomb against the Horde? My friend playing Glissa basically drew it in his opening hand and we kept it open until Army of the Damned hit the graveyard. It also managed to mop up all Moan of the Unhallowed in there as well, making the game seem too predictable and easy to beat.
Maelstrom Pulse and Sever the Bloodline seemed way too powerful as well. I'm all for survival, but these just made us laugh at the Horde. As mentioned in the rules, hoser-type cards like these would gain "Cycling 0", which is what we were also thinking of doing for Planeswalkers since Tezzeret sat there and untapped artifacts all game long. How far do you all go with this rule?
WUBR Breya, Thopter Sculptor
WBR Kaalia, Harbinger of the Apocalypse
WBR Edgar Markov, Bloodline Progenitor
BGW Karador, Reanimator King
GWU Jenara, Asuran Enchantress
URG Riku, Omniscient Wizard
UBG Tasigur, Mind Grinder
UB Grimgrin, Combo-Stitched
GW Rhys, Gilt-Leaf Warrior
B Drana, Defiant Bloodchief
U Baral, Lord of Counterspells
G Azusa, Seeking the Horizon
W Kemba, Kha of the White Sun
C Ulamog, the Mana Glutton
Totally necessary for my Horde. I run Living Death, Living End, Army of the Damned (flashing back immediately to leave 26 zombies on the board), and Yawgmoth's Will. If there isn't a way to deal with the graveyard at instant speed it can be game over a lot of times.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Planeswalkers get attacked first, they are like a timewarp for horde, or it gets too out of control.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Hmm, interesting. What would you suggest as a theme for the deck then? I'm not too familiar with "group hug" cards in mono blue. I only know the colourless ones such as Howling Mine and Font of Mythos (and I only know those). Would a deck such as this want to play lots of targeted draw so the other players get to draw from her? In other words, make her "class" like a convoy that sits in the back helping out but doing no real fighting?
I'm planning on between 2-4 Plague Wind for my build.
For discard I'm running 4 Delirium Skeins. I'd rather have the larger discard (than unnerve) to punish the heroes just that little bit more. I don't plan on running more than that though as I'd rather push the creature presence. As for Death Baron, I'm currently going to run 2 in my build (mostly due to the fact I only own two haha). My build still isn't finalized (cards need to arrive in the mail already...), but I'm thinking I'll have between 2-4 Undead Warchief. These guys just lay on the hurt as long as there are any number of zombies.
I guess my question was kind of silly, in that it really is reliant on what is in the Horde deck. Ours, for instance, doesn't have Yawgmoth's Will, so the threat of a flashbacked Army of the Damned isn't as horrifying as landing that Yawgmoth's Will late game with a fully-stocked graveyard - that has got to be the worst thing ever.
Meh. At that point a Planeswalker seems like a creature that has to block, which makes them a lot less useful than they would be normally, although a Liliana/Tezzeret would be another tutor if nothing else... Maybe a "cycle at your own discretion" sort of thing.
From what we saw last night, 4 Death Barons and 4 Undead Warchiefs make the deck a lot more threatening (which is probably why I run 4 of each in my actual zombie deck). I think the punishment thing is right on, and even though we didn't hit either Skeins or Unnerve, I'll look to switch that to 4 Delirium Skeins.
WUBR Breya, Thopter Sculptor
WBR Kaalia, Harbinger of the Apocalypse
WBR Edgar Markov, Bloodline Progenitor
BGW Karador, Reanimator King
GWU Jenara, Asuran Enchantress
URG Riku, Omniscient Wizard
UBG Tasigur, Mind Grinder
UB Grimgrin, Combo-Stitched
GW Rhys, Gilt-Leaf Warrior
B Drana, Defiant Bloodchief
U Baral, Lord of Counterspells
G Azusa, Seeking the Horizon
W Kemba, Kha of the White Sun
C Ulamog, the Mana Glutton
The thing is that keeping planeswalkers out is generally a huge advantage to the heroes. If I'm able to keep that Jace, the Mind Sculptor for more than the one turn, the card advantage and ability to filter what I need is outrageous. By getting the horde to always attack walkers first, it prevents these out of control situations from happening. If the heroes really want to keep a strong walker out, they must pay the price and have a good defensive position first. Keeping that Karn Liberated or Liliana Vess out needs to require effort rather than be an automatic continuous advantage.
I lucked out in that a guy at my FNM has two Death Baron lying around. I'll be getting these in the next couple of weeks so I'll be able to add them to my horde. I'm definitely a fan of discard in the horde. One has to press the attack to try and mill the troublesome cards out, but then you can be hit with a big counter-attack just as easily. Not only that, but if you're playing around Plague Wind, Delirium Skeins can come and wreck your day. The opposite is true in that if you play around Delirium Skeins, Plague Wind can come and wreck your day. All the pain that can be sent the heroes way is a great way to make the heroes cooperate and find a game plan to avoid these situations.
On a different note, I've been thinking about who I could use for UR in the future as a hero. The two I've been deciding on are Nin, the Pain Artist and Jhoira of the Ghitu.
The word is hysterical. Not horrifying. I found that whenever the Horde absolutely curb stomps us - which it does a lot - we love it the same.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
True story.
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
50 Zombie Token
15 Zombie Giant Token
Creatures
4 Noxious Ghoul
2 Undead Warchief
4 Soulless One
1 Phage the Untouchable
2 Death Baron
4 Vengeful Dead
1 Army of the Damned
1 Parallel Lives
1 Doubling Season
Bring the Pain
1 Dark Suspicions
3 Delirium Skeins
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Grave Pact
1 Intimidation
1 Forsaken Wastes
1 Time Reversal
1 Twilight's Call
1 Living Death
1 Empty the Catacombs
Kill Them All
2 Plague Wind
If you missed it in my list, Dark Suspicions is one card I'm on the fence about. On one hand, early game it will just destroy the heroes life total. Late game it could just sit there doing nothing. The odds of having a blue player with draw effects is certainly decent though, in which case this enchantment alone hits for loads of damage. Let me know what you all think.
I have 1 card that I'd like to fit in, but can't seem to do it. Does anybody have suggestions as to what to switch (if at all) and why?
I'm aware that the Sutured Ghoul would be the exact opposite of what an Empty the Catacombs (and others) deck would want, but if it was made the "boss monster" of the deck... That being said, a simple bounce spell wrecks him.(Now that I think of it, he's a horrible idea)I've also thought about putting Phyrexian Crusader in. Anybody have thoughts on this? I can't help but think 4 of these guys would just help wreck face. The pro red saves him from the "sniper" deck, the pro white stops damage absorbers, and the first strike allows weakening of strong blockers pretty well guaranteed. I think they'd be worth it. Anybody else consider them?
Also, as I'm not limiting myself to mono-black, does anybody have any suggestions of non-black (I know lots of black cards due to the standard mono-black theme being used by others) cards that could improve this deck?
I run 2 of them, 3 Scourge Servant, and I think 2 Toxic Nim. Infect adds such a weird dynamic though. Sometimes I am relieved that it's ~just~ 3 poison counters and others it's instant death.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
EDH:
:symb::symb::symb: The Horde! :symb::symb::symb:
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Dralnu- Dimir Snap!
:symwu::symur::symrw: Zedruu the Greathearted :symrw::symur::symwu:
:symwu::symub::symwb: Zur the Enchanter :symwb::symub::symwu:
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
70 Zombie Tokens
5 Zombie Giant Tokens
Non-Token Zombies (12)
4 Death Baron
4 Undead Warchief
2 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Soulless One
3 Plague Wind
1 Living Death
Other Spells (9)
4 Moan of the Unhallowed
1 Army of the Damned
1 Call to the Grave
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
2 Delirium Skeins
Not much in terms of changes, but the 8 lords make it mean. It either loses due to over control on the survivors part (usually when my buddy plays Glissa), or it stomps us dead.
Also, saw an idea for a "Final Boss", and thought I would present our own idea, which is similar but a little different:
1. When the Boss comes into play, the Horde graveyard is exiled. (We were also thinking about having all token creatures exiled as well, to give it more of a hero-only feel, although token decks would be no good at that point)
2. The Boss has HP, represented in the power/toughness box. The Boss cannot "lose life", but it can be dealt combat and non-combat damage. The Boss loses once its HP is reduced to 0.
3. During each of the Boss' turns, it rolls a six-sided die. A roll of 2 or 4 is a miss for the Boss, and a roll of 6 is a re-roll. Any other number is represented as an activated ability on the Boss card.
4. The Boss is not a "Permanent", it cannot be targeted by any spells, nor can it have its activated abilities targeted. (Although a Boss may have a type, it does not affect things like Soulless One)
5. During the survivors turn, the Boss cannot be attacked by more than 5 creatures at once.
6. While the Boss is in play, players cannot take extra phases (i.e. Aggravated Assault) or extra turns (i.e. Time Walk). (We were also thinking about not allowing tutoring while the Boss is in play)
These rules and the Boss itself haven't been tested yet. We'll be getting together at some point this week to play, so we'll test it out and I'll get back to everyone. I have high hopes for it, and I can't wait to try it out.
Thoughts? Suggestions on making it better?
WUBR Breya, Thopter Sculptor
WBR Kaalia, Harbinger of the Apocalypse
WBR Edgar Markov, Bloodline Progenitor
BGW Karador, Reanimator King
GWU Jenara, Asuran Enchantress
URG Riku, Omniscient Wizard
UBG Tasigur, Mind Grinder
UB Grimgrin, Combo-Stitched
GW Rhys, Gilt-Leaf Warrior
B Drana, Defiant Bloodchief
U Baral, Lord of Counterspells
G Azusa, Seeking the Horizon
W Kemba, Kha of the White Sun
C Ulamog, the Mana Glutton
I like where you're going with it but I believe you have too many arbitrary rules.