A friend and I were recently discussing non-zombie horde themes, and the idea was brought up of using flayer husks and other living weapon cards as the backbone of a modular, ever-growing horde monstrosity.
Back when the idea of this sub-format was first being discussed, I liked the way a couple of posters on the quiet speculation site wrote up mini-AIs for decks that were a bit more complex than the standard zombie bum rush. For instance, someone proposing an Eldrazi swarm wrote up the following rules, to better simulate the their behavior:
Additional Rules for the Eldrazi deck:
- Eldrazi spawn do not attack unless they have power greater than 0.
- Eldrazi spawn must block exactly one unblocked creature if able.
- When a mythic Eldrazi is put into the graveyard, only shuffle Eldrazi spawn back into its library.
- Emrakul is always the bottom card of the horde deck.
I'm hoping to elicit some recommendations both for the horde's composition, power level, and also how the horde should best prioritize its equip distributions. Below is a draft deck list, and some thoughts on its AI. I've excluded mortarpod from the list, as it seems too "smart" for the horde to use. If you can think of good rote behavior involving mortarpod, I'd like to hear it too.
Finally, I'll probably be proxying up a goodly portion this deck, so if you've been dreaming up any new or custom living weapons, please let me know! For example, there are no living weapons that grant trample, first strike, or a whole host of other evergreen abilities.
1. Living Weapon cards count as tokens for the purpose of horde deck flipping; each upkeep, the horde reveals cards from the top of it's "library" until a non-Living Weapon card is revealed. All tokens enter play and all additional spells and creature cards are resolved.
2. 22 poison counters kills the survivors. (removed blightsteel colossus; no current infect creatures in list)
3. The horde does not draw cards from Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur.
4. If any creature in the horde has vigilance, it will block 1:1, any survivor creatures in descending order of highest power.
5. Germ tokens do not go to the graveyard.
6. Before declaring attackers, unattached equipments equip themselves to the horde creature with the highest power. If tied, select one at random, then attach all equipments to them.
7. Equipments will not re-equip themselves to a new creature unless the creature they are currently attached to is either dead, rendered unable to attack, or unable to deal damage (temporal isolation).
8. Batterskull cards do not return themselves to the horde's "hand" unless one has been created temporarily though a survivor initiated bounce effect. Under these circumstances, the Batterskull will only return itself if it does not currently attached to a germ or horror token, or another horde creature.
EDIT 2/8/2012: Finally finished with proxies and collecting living weapons. I have adjusted the main deck composition to better fit the kaijus' various themes (Draco to Nicol Bolas for Destoriyah). Hoping to test this out soon!
Do you think it is powerful enough? I like theme, but Flayer Husk is really weak, you'd need powerful cards to flip to make the deck challenging. Upping 'tokens' may also be a solution if you find same thing.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Well, the intent was that the flayer husk germs would die, leaving the equips. The left over equipments would then exploit the horde's infinite mana to attach themselves en mas to a flipped, evasive horror like devouring strossus and smash the survivor's face in. I suppose I could up the amount of sickleslicers, necropouncers, or skinwings if you still think it doesn't have enough oomph.
Side note, need to come up with a rule for when the equipped horror is hit by a pacifism or similar effect.
I'm thinking of either making custom cards, or casting the 2 batterskulls in the roles of bosses Number 128 and Inferno from FF6. 4 of the necropouncers and/or sickleslicers can be the Left Blade, Right Blade, Rough, and Striker. Mehbe one of the Atma/ultima weapons could be cast as well...
Any advice from horde players on how the "return to hand" clause on batterskull should be handled? Should the horde be able to recall and recast them, esp if they've been disabled from attacking somehow?
Well, the intent was that the flayer husk germs would die, leaving the equips. The left over equipments would then exploit the horde's infinite mana to attach themselves en mas to a flipped, evasive horror like devouring strossus and smash the survivor's face in. I suppose I could up the amount of sickleslicers, necropouncers, or skinwings if you still think it doesn't have enough oomph.
Side note, need to come up with a rule for when the equipped horror is hit by a pacifism or similar effect.
-Dolono
Equipment should probably migrate away from a pacified creature as if it were destroyed.
I'm thinking of either making custom cards, or casting the 2 batterskulls in the roles of bosses Number 128 and Inferno from FF6. 4 of the necropouncers and/or sickleslicers can be the Left Blade, Right Blade, Rough, and Striker. Mehbe one of the Atma/ultima weapons could be cast as well...
Any advice from horde players on how the "return to hand" clause on batterskull should be handled? Should the horde be able to recall and recast them, esp if they've been disabled from attacking somehow?
Thanks!
Seems like you could probably have batterskull be recurred and recast if its germ is destroyed and there's no other possibility to cast.
Alternately, if you want to push the power, you could have it so that Batterskulls in the second main will bounce, create a germ, equip that germ with another equipment, and rebounce until each equipment has its own germ.
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Alternately, if you want to push the power, you could have it so that Batterskulls in the second main will bounce, create a germ, equip that germ with another equipment, and rebounce until each equipment has its own germ.
That's a cool idea, although, aesthetically, I'm more attracted to smaller numbers of creatures acquiring huge collections of germ-less equipments, even though this is a less optimal strategy.
Thanks for the input on the pacified creature clause!
One thing that I am concerned about is that there are a lot of dedicated hate cards that could be run against this deck. Anything that affects black creatures hits most things here (though the same is true for Zombie Hordes), but you can also blank most of the stack with cards like Null Rod, March of the Machines, Titania's Song, Damping Matrix, etc. Shatterstorm effects also wipe out the tokens, making them additional wraths for anyone who wants to run them.
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Out of the list of cards you mentioned, the only ones I'd be concerned about horde-castration-wise would be the Null Rod and Dampening Matrix, which I've actually never actually seen used in an edh game before (other than myself with DM). The others I've also never seen due, I assume, to the narrowness of their effects. At worst, titania's song and march of the machines just convert the equipment horde into a zombie horde.
Besides, most hordes I think, due to the way they place tokens on the board, are pretty wrath resilient. It;s accounting for effects like unequiping via artifact protection, and reusable fog effects, and pacifisms that I;m more worried about.
If you're looking for a few non-creature threats to add to your horde, here are some I use (for my zombie horde):
Dark Suspicions - If the players have a hand, it's going to hurt Gratuitous Violence - Make your hard-hitting creatures hit harder. Even the 1/1's become a bigger threat Bottomless Pit - I'm a fan of this as players don't get to pick the discard. Can really mess up a combo or get rid of an answer card that a player was saving. Grave Pact - A great card for any horde, it makes the players think twice about blocking that 1/1. Plague Wind - Great board-wipe that only hits your opponents. Helps the horde get through with an attack (eapecially if the players are playing defensively). Praetor's Counsel - Less effective here than in normal hordes, a great card if you find lots of artifact destruction in your area. If there is little to no artifact destruction and your normal creatures don't die too much, then don't bother with this.
if you see me playing edh on modo I am always running badcards.dec http://offcolorcast.com For people that wanted a second EDH podcast to listen to each week.
God, I hate baby Godzilla. Maybe I'll swap out one of the archangels for Minilla as a joke.
Haha yeah baby godzilla is pretty much the worst thing on earth
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if you see me playing edh on modo I am always running badcards.dec http://offcolorcast.com For people that wanted a second EDH podcast to listen to each week.
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A friend and I were recently discussing non-zombie horde themes, and the idea was brought up of using flayer husks and other living weapon cards as the backbone of a modular, ever-growing horde monstrosity.
Back when the idea of this sub-format was first being discussed, I liked the way a couple of posters on the quiet speculation site wrote up mini-AIs for decks that were a bit more complex than the standard zombie bum rush. For instance, someone proposing an Eldrazi swarm wrote up the following rules, to better simulate the their behavior:
Additional Rules for the Eldrazi deck:
- Eldrazi spawn do not attack unless they have power greater than 0.
- Eldrazi spawn must block exactly one unblocked creature if able.
- When a mythic Eldrazi is put into the graveyard, only shuffle Eldrazi spawn back into its library.
- Emrakul is always the bottom card of the horde deck.
I'm hoping to elicit some recommendations both for the horde's composition, power level, and also how the horde should best prioritize its equip distributions. Below is a draft deck list, and some thoughts on its AI. I've excluded mortarpod from the list, as it seems too "smart" for the horde to use. If you can think of good rote behavior involving mortarpod, I'd like to hear it too.
Finally, I'll probably be proxying up a goodly portion this deck, so if you've been dreaming up any new or custom living weapons, please let me know! For example, there are no living weapons that grant trample, first strike, or a whole host of other evergreen abilities.
Thanks!
Dolono
"Tokens" 68
3 Batterskull
3 Bonehoard
30 Flayer Husk
8 Necropouncer
8 Sickleslicer
8 Skinwing
8 Strandwalker
"Main Deck"
1 Avatar of Slaughter - Gigan
1 Borborygmos - Godzilla
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Chancellor of the Annex - Rodan
1 Dread - Megalon
1 Chancellor of the Tangle - Biollante
1 Cosmic Horror - Space Godzilla
1 Culling Sun
1 Destructive Flow
1 Devouring Strossus - Ghidorah
1 Empyrial Archangel - Mothra
1 Excruciator - Baragon
1 Firestorm Hellkite - Battra
1 Garruk's Companion - Minilla
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - Controller of Planet X
1 Massacre Wurm - Hedorah
1 Nicol Bolas - Destoroyah
4 Phyrexian Rebirth
1 Phyrexian Tyranny
1 Primal Rage
1 Silver Seraph - Gamera
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind - Mecha Godzilla
1 Teeka's Dragon - Kaiser Ghidorah
1 Thunder Dragon - Varan
1 Vorapede - Mothra Larva
1 Vorapede - Battra Larva
1 Wildfire
2 Wurmcoil Engine (AKA Wurmspiralmaschine!)
Horde Rules and Extra Behaviors
1. Living Weapon cards count as tokens for the purpose of horde deck flipping; each upkeep, the horde reveals cards from the top of it's "library" until a non-Living Weapon card is revealed. All tokens enter play and all additional spells and creature cards are resolved.
2. 22 poison counters kills the survivors. (removed blightsteel colossus; no current infect creatures in list)
3. The horde does not draw cards from Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur.
4. If any creature in the horde has vigilance, it will block 1:1, any survivor creatures in descending order of highest power.
5. Germ tokens do not go to the graveyard.
6. Before declaring attackers, unattached equipments equip themselves to the horde creature with the highest power. If tied, select one at random, then attach all equipments to them.
7. Equipments will not re-equip themselves to a new creature unless the creature they are currently attached to is either dead, rendered unable to attack, or unable to deal damage (temporal isolation).
8. Batterskull cards do not return themselves to the horde's "hand" unless one has been created temporarily though a survivor initiated bounce effect. Under these circumstances, the Batterskull will only return itself if it does not currently attached to a germ or horror token, or another horde creature.
EDIT 2/8/2012: Finally finished with proxies and collecting living weapons. I have adjusted the main deck composition to better fit the kaijus' various themes (Draco to Nicol Bolas for Destoriyah). Hoping to test this out soon!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Side note, need to come up with a rule for when the equipped horror is hit by a pacifism or similar effect.
-Dolono
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Any advice from horde players on how the "return to hand" clause on batterskull should be handled? Should the horde be able to recall and recast them, esp if they've been disabled from attacking somehow?
Thanks!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Equipment should probably migrate away from a pacified creature as if it were destroyed.
Seems like you could probably have batterskull be recurred and recast if its germ is destroyed and there's no other possibility to cast.
Alternately, if you want to push the power, you could have it so that Batterskulls in the second main will bounce, create a germ, equip that germ with another equipment, and rebounce until each equipment has its own germ.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
That's a cool idea, although, aesthetically, I'm more attracted to smaller numbers of creatures acquiring huge collections of germ-less equipments, even though this is a less optimal strategy.
Thanks for the input on the pacified creature clause!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Out of the list of cards you mentioned, the only ones I'd be concerned about horde-castration-wise would be the Null Rod and Dampening Matrix, which I've actually never actually seen used in an edh game before (other than myself with DM). The others I've also never seen due, I assume, to the narrowness of their effects. At worst, titania's song and march of the machines just convert the equipment horde into a zombie horde.
Besides, most hordes I think, due to the way they place tokens on the board, are pretty wrath resilient. It;s accounting for effects like unequiping via artifact protection, and reusable fog effects, and pacifisms that I;m more worried about.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Dark Suspicions - If the players have a hand, it's going to hurt
Gratuitous Violence - Make your hard-hitting creatures hit harder. Even the 1/1's become a bigger threat
Bottomless Pit - I'm a fan of this as players don't get to pick the discard. Can really mess up a combo or get rid of an answer card that a player was saving.
Grave Pact - A great card for any horde, it makes the players think twice about blocking that 1/1.
Plague Wind - Great board-wipe that only hits your opponents. Helps the horde get through with an attack (eapecially if the players are playing defensively).
Praetor's Counsel - Less effective here than in normal hordes, a great card if you find lots of artifact destruction in your area. If there is little to no artifact destruction and your normal creatures don't die too much, then don't bother with this.
I love huge tracts of tokens during the horde's draw, so I increased the token count to 68/100.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Inside the spoiler are some of my current thoughts.
Thanks!
-Dolono
1 Chancellor of the Annex - Rodan
1 Chancellor of the Dross - Megalon
1 Chancellor of the Forge - Baragon
1 Chancellor of the Tangle - King Kong
1 Cosmic Horror - Space Godzilla
1 Darksteel Colossus - Mechagodzilla
1 Devouring Strossus - King Ghidorah
1 Draco - Destoroyah
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - Gamera
2 Indomitable Archangel - Mothra
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - Controller of Planet X
1 Massacre Wurm - Hedora
1 Teeka's Dragon - Mecha-King Ghidorah
1 Urabrask the Hidden - Varan
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger - Godzilla
4 Wurmcoil Engine - Mothra Larva
a couple different lists of kaiju
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kaiju
http://godzilla.wikia.com/wiki/Kaiju
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
http://offcolorcast.com For people that wanted a second EDH podcast to listen to each week.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Haha yeah baby godzilla is pretty much the worst thing on earth
http://offcolorcast.com For people that wanted a second EDH podcast to listen to each week.