Quote from looshkin »So I am trying to put together a commander deck that doesn't have a pre-built in wincon. I am trying to borrow cards from my opponents to come up with a way to win on the fly each game. I think this could be a fun challenge and it would make the game a little different each time I get to play.
Quote from looshkin »thanks for the reply. Volrath seems pretty sweet and he is in my favorite colors.
Quote from Cranky »I'd definitely recommend against group hug, it is generally seen as a fairly obnoxious playstyle and when you add that to the fact that the average player becomes irrationally livid when you take their stuff you're going to get hated out of games extremely quickly. Taking someone else's cards is probably EDH cardinal sin no.1, above MLD even. Like, no joke, the only reason Expropriate is playable is the fact that people would rather give you an extra turn than one of their permanents so 90% of the time it reads 'Take 4 extra turns' for 1 less mana than Time Stretch.
If you're going to make an annoying deck you're either going to want to make it control-heavy to counteract all the hate, or build something innocuously durdley in order to shake off some heat.
Like... 'Oops, all Clones' Sakashima with a few Control Magic effects is probably fine, since copying isn't frowned upon and the deck generally won't be able to do anything better than catch up to the player in the lead.
Quote from Cranky »
1) Steal-your-***** decks are only really playable in weaker metas where it will garner salt, otherwise they're just a joke.
Quote from Cranky » I can't begin to fathom your point of view so I guess we'll agree to disagree. Back to the thread then?
Quote from Cranky »I have a clearer picture now of the fact that our ideas of what qualifies as powerful are incredibly different. Good to know moving forward I guess. Now stop derailing lol.
Quote from FunkyDragon »Quote from looshkin »So I am trying to put together a commander deck that doesn't have a pre-built in wincon. I am trying to borrow cards from my opponents to come up with a way to win on the fly each game. I think this could be a fun challenge and it would make the game a little different each time I get to play.Quote from looshkin »thanks for the reply. Volrath seems pretty sweet and he is in my favorite colors. If you go with Volrath, it can be a lot of fun. Green for ramp, blue and black for copy, control, and recursion. You can avoid some of the more standard inclusions to make sure it "doesn't have a pre-built in wincon" (obnoxious things like Blighted Agent and Needle Specter), but you would want to consider some of the others that enable you to copy what your opponents are running. One amazing benefit of the all-clones type decks is that you're not just copying one player. Sometimes you copy one thing from Player A and something else from Player B, and suddenly you have a combo or the most powerful board. Or you can simply enjoy having a bigger version of their creature. And once they know you're all clones and copy, they sometimes have to adjust what they play so you don't get a copy.
Here are some fun recommendations for the deck:
Faerie Artisans - You get all their ETBs. And occasionally something really spicy.
Experiment Kraj - Seriously, get all the abilities. Also place counters for Volrath.
The Mimeoplasm - Get what they had, only bigger.
Tetzimoc, Primal Death - Keep it in the hand to place counters for Volrath to copy creatures. Cast it if you need to level the board a bit. Nice and versatile.
Evil Twin - Their creature, but also able to kill their creature.
You can also look here: https://edhrec.com/commanders/volrath-the-shapestealer-clones-theme
Quote from Cranky »Oh obviously meta-dependency is a thing, but I was thinking:
1) Steal-your-***** decks are only really playable in weaker metas where it will garner salt, otherwise they're just a joke. I made the assumption that OP is in the former given what he's trying to build, but I guess he could just be looking to make a joke deck. Care to chime in, Looshkin?
2) Expropriate is only really playable in metas where people choose time, everywhere else people eventually realize its bad and take it out. My statement about Expropriate was predicated on my assumption in point 1.
Either way, my point about group hug stands because hate for group hug is universal lol. You're essentially turning a 4-player game of EDH into a 3-player game of Planechase, and most people would rather gouge their eyes out than endure a game of kingmaker with an extra layer of kingmaker on top.
Quote from FunkyDragon »Saw the update with the partial list. I would recommend adding Mirage Mirror and possibly Mimic Vat as cards that fit your theme of using the opponents' stuff without having cards that are a wincon by themselves.
Also, it looks like your list is entirely creatures. Do you plan to add a complement of copy spells? Stuff like Narset's Reversal and Twincast? These can offer great utility (ramp/removal) or outright win the game if the opponent plays the right spell.
Quote from looshkin »also is there any special lands worth putting in the list to support the idea?