Quote from cyberium_neo »Here is the link from Barrebhabib on calculating ratio/chance of drawing certain cards in your deck: http://www.unseelie.org/cgi-bin/cardco.cgi?deck=90&target=25&hand=6
Given Krav, the Unredeemed and Sephara, Sky's Blade, how do you feel about cards like Emeria Angel/c] that could generate flyers? Resplendent Angel is cheap and aggressive enough to go into this deck while providing support for Regna, the Redeemer. I believe Aurelia, the Warleader would untap Angel of Condemnation and Glorybringer after you exert them?
Quote from 3drinks »
Hmmm. So I opted for the Krav/Regna package as they tutour each other and are found off the commander, while being not terribly over costed for the effect and a good sac outlet to help move through the deck. They also function just fine on their own without any further support. It was like a perfect storm thing. I'm not sure Emeria Angel is enough high iMPACT for the ninety-nine here (though angel of invention might be). I really don't think there's enough lifelink to proc resplendent angel consistently, although I did consider it pretty hard in the initial build. And if we're not gonna proc it, then it's just a 3/3 for three, which I'd rather have Emancipation Angel at that point since it resets our commander and is found off the commander.
While it's true Aurelia untaps exerted guys, is this a relevant thing? Or is it just win more? Typically I'm using Angel to blink Kaalia in fact I've never exerted it ever, and while Glorybringer would do a sweet impression of everyone's favourite red four drop, I question the validity of running a six drop to make our great five drop better than it already is, which is already pretty good. That said it does make for a better combat which speeds up our clock exponentially, and unlike in the original Kaalia, it both triggers off the first attack, and doesn't burn through our cards in hand. I think I'd like a swords package before I go in on Aurelia though.
I'd like to use Firemane Avenger too. I'm not sure how often battalion can proc, but I think this is just enough to stay under the radar and generating free Helixes is always pretty grand.
edit: Whoops, i missed the part about Sephara. I'm not even sure the deck wants her, tbh, but she is an Avacyn that can be alt casted in a deck that doesn't actually have a cheat mechanism, which isn't nothing. And she preorders for under $2 so if it doesn't work out with her, we can '86 her easy enough. Worth noting we have a fair amount of vigilance going on too, so we have a great < combat, post-combat here's a 7/7 lifelink that protects our whole board plan.
Quote from 3drinks »I'm right there with you that his threat suite is suspect, as well as his count being high. And there's too many high drops when it's not guaranteed you will see a cheat mechanism.
Still, that list is a valuable case study to examine.
Quote from cyberium_neo »Quote from 3drinks »I'm right there with you that his threat suite is suspect, as well as his count being high. And there's too many high drops when it's not guaranteed you will see a cheat mechanism.
Still, that list is a valuable case study to examine.
I've been testing Kaalia as a "draw spell" in command zone that benefits from blinks, much like Niv #4. If the deck's curve is low enough, one could play it like a Mardu aggro, then cast Kaalia to regain your hand and still have enough mana to drop threats right after. Scroll Rack (in your deck already) works quite well with Kaalia similar to Land Tax (Mardu has never been quick on lands).
What do you think of Astral Slide/Astral Drift in Kaalia? I mentioned in my thread that some lists I saw has a discard/cycling theme using Angel of the God-Pharaoh, Winged Shepherd, Eternal Dragon, and Archfiend of Ifnir, uses blink on Kaalia and other ETB creatures being the main attraction, playing political and handling offensive creatures being next.
Quote from 3drinks »Although perhaps Mortuary is a missed gem since we can stack the triggers post wrath with Kaalia on top, draw her, cast for three and get three threats.
Quote from 3drinks »
Land Tax is a good call but I don't think we have enough basics for it? I'm on six, and that feels like an upper limit since I need to fix.
Do we really have enough good cyclers? We have to play threats as well, and a lot of these guys look really bad to cast. I suppose it would allow us to use Hollow One and maybe parlay into a sort of modern living end deck (keep scroll racking it on top until we could demonic dread or bituminous blast into it)? I feel like this is getting away from the deck itself though, but I may be mis-evaluating here.
Quote from 3drinks »
What do we think of the aggressive cost echo creatures? Herald of Serra, Lightning Dragon? And I suspect Radiant, Archangel may be stronger here than I wrote her off to be (surely it's better than Angelic Overseer in most cases).
Quote from cyberium_neo »How effective are Malfegor, Butcher of the Horde, Herald of Torment, and Master of the Feast? Malfy I can see its application via Kaalia's fetch, would Master of the Feast be a little to convenient for opponents? The other two are cheap beaters, I wonder if that's enough to warrant a spot.
Quote from RowanKeltizar »I really like what you are doing here 3drinks! I'm writing up a more in depth response, but I just wanted to point out that Embodiment of Agonies could be a really efficient beater. It definitely fits more into my list because of the higher density of discard effects, but even for yours I think I would choose it over some of the other beaters you have. Herald of Torment particularly feels like it doesn't have enough impact. The combination of flying and deathtouch stand out as being strong. Reminiscent of Vampire Nighthawk.
Quote from 3drinks »The 2 for 1 of Herald of Torment's bestow effect. He makes something huge then when you wipe or otherwise spot kill the creature it's enchanting, you still have a 3/3 flyer which demands another answer. Or on it's own, it's still a body you can easily cast on it's own, which is a pretty great spot to have.
Quote from 3drinks »I think Rakdos 2.0 is a bit of a trap, he plays better as commander than in the ninety-nine. When I tested him out in original Kaalia where I could get around his cast requirement, I found him underwhelming as he does not reduce coloured costs. At best, yes, I did resolve a Razaketh for just BBB, but that felt like his real hard ceiling. He's much stronger when he's deploying Wurmcoils and Ulamogs for 0. Without him, I'm still going to struggle to get to my six plus drops, and that's why I always aire on the side of caution with respect and care to my mana curve.
Quote from 3drinks »We have eight legendaries that would turn on Mox Amber, and seven of those eight are four plus cmc. I don't believe this to be consistent enough at all to justify that mox.
Quote from RowanKeltizar »I could see this having more of an impact in 1v1 commander, but in mutliplayer I still feel that Herald lacks the power we are looking for. 2 for 1 isn't good enough in my experience. We can agree to disagree on that one I suppose Smile
Quote from RowanKeltizar »I think one difference between Kaalia 1.0 and 2.0 is that we will have a much higher concentration of ADD in the deck with Zenith Seeker. At least we should if we are interested in making the most of her ability. We should have multiple ADD in our hand at any given time. In theory, Rakdos should allow us to play two 4-6cmc creatures in the same turn more reliably. Kaalia fills our hand, and Rakdos helps those ADD get onto the battlefield. If we are able to deal 4 damage to someone, instead of paying 7RRWW for Stormbreath Dragon and Sunblast Angel we are just paying RRWW allowing us to get those creatures out on the same turn. And I still feel that 6cmc creatures should be the exception to the rule. 5cmc and lower being the sweet spot. I agree that Rakdos can lend a false sense of security and we should still be leery of anything 6 cmc and over. Rakdos is there for a chance of increased efficiency, not to cheat huge creatures into play.
Quote from RowanKeltizar »I feel that Kaalia alone justifies the mox. She is cheap and doesn't draw hate. She should stay in play. If she gets removed, we get another trigger. For a zero cost ramp (especially one of the cheaper ones), i think the risk is worth it. Again, this is probably something that needs to be tested.
Quote from RowanKeltizar »Next, I would like to voice a few things I've been mulling over in my head:
Thematically, I strongly feel that this iteration of Kaalia demands a solid ETB theme to fully optimize the deck. Kaalia, Zenith Seeker by herself is actually pretty weak. You get one trigger off her, and you might be lucky to dig up 2 or at best 3 ADD. Because we are running the more efficiently costed ADD (and we can't reliably cheat them into play), none of these hits are going to be game winning. By themselves, they are good value but not enough to win. You need to consistently field smaller threats to build up to a win. And what happens when someone board wipes? Without proper support that can be devastating even with Kaalia's trigger. We can just keep digging up threats but we need to be prepared for that inevitability. For these reasons I think we need to maximize and abuse these smaller creatures to their fullest potential. That's where ETB support cards come in. To get an ETB trigger we either need to cast, blink, or reanimate. I will post my revised list soon, but this is the primary theme of the deck. Creatures entering the battlefield. Furthermore, I think we especially need reliable ways to trigger our commander's ability as many times as possible. Aside from blink, that means being able to sacrifice her and recast her from our command zone. While this gets more and more expensive, it does work. Victimize, Diabolic Intent and perhaps Ravenous Demon or Demonic Taskmaster might help fill this role.
Second, I think we should address the Worldgorger Dragon combo. Unlike with Kaalia 1.0, Kaalia 2.0 and Worldgorger Dragon can win us the game, allowing us to put all of our ADD into our hand with infinite mana at our disposal. If we don't have a game winning ETB ability already in play, that should be easy enough to make happen. You can also just cast something like Aurelia's Fury using the infinite mana. I think you could bring this list into cEDH territory if you wished, just building around this combo. But I think you and I both don't want to go that route. However, I am not opposed to at least having the combo in the deck and maindecking a few support cards for it because it is on theme. I guess I'd just like to hear an explanation for why you aren't using it because I think it can enable a consistent win and it combos directly with our commander.
Third, I've been thinking about what darrenhabib said in my thread about the land destruction package (it's like "holding a gun to your head") and after thinking it through I generally agree. I predict that things like Winter Orb, Armageddon, etc... will end up backfiring. Mostly because we aren't running a reliable way to circumvent mana costs like we did with Kaalia 1.0. We also aren't necessarily running any high cost ADD that can win the game on their own once in play. But we still need some lockdown, and I think an alternative lockdown strategy that actually has a lot of synergy with Zenith Seeker is global discard and hand hate, especially if we ourselves are running a reanimation package. I don't yet know exactly what this looks like but cards like Sire of Insanity are what I'm talking about.
Quote from RowanKeltizar »Some individual card possibilities: