Right after seeing the spoiler, I decided to quickly throw together a list of what I might want in a Kykar deck.
I'm currently over 100 cards, and it needs some refinement. I know there are some things that probably def need to go, and probably some stuff I missed that should def be here. I just wanted to share the quick list I threw together to maybe get some conversation going, people's creative juices going, etc.
Feel free to suggest adds or cuts, or completely different approaches, or just tell me I'm crazy. Whatever's good.
EDIT: I just realized that the list I posted before was somehow completely missing the creatures section, so that's there now. Also made some swaps, trimmed some fat, etc. It's down to 100 cards now.
In general I think Kykar is going to reward large generic mana requirements so stuff like memory lapse/arcane denial/ertai's meddling/delay will likely be better than counterspell for ex.
Ephara is a very difficult to remove outlet that turns your commander's ability into "make a token, draw a card" - I think it's probably strong enough even at 4 mana that it's worth playing. She's rarely getting removed and you'll probably wind up with 10+ cards on it in a game.
All that said I think you're on the right track and the deck looks really fun
As Foretold is a sweet card too, especially with lots of cheap stuff to play at instant speed.
I think before a lot of the other stuff you listed, I'd probably look at stuff like Impulse, Anticipate, etc, but I think our heads are in more or less the same place.
As Foretold is a sweet card too, especially with lots of cheap stuff to play at instant speed.
I think before a lot of the other stuff you listed, I'd probably look at stuff like Impulse, Anticipate, etc, but I think our heads are in more or less the same place.
lol, I don't want to get into a big old argument about arcane denial but specifically in this deck you can cast it for U, which is a gigantic upgrade over counterspell which really constrains your mana.
Really I would run almost any of the XB counterspells before counterspell for this reason.
You're not wrong about spells with generic mana costs (or R in their costs) being potentially more useful, though that depends on how frequently I'm going to be able to keep Kykar on the table and make spirits. Shouldn't be too hard to pull off much of the time, but the spells have to actually be good to be worth the swap.
Arcane Denial, Delay, and Ertai's Meddling are great cards in a combo deck. You don't care about the downsides because you're winning the game on the spot. That's not the case here. Negate, Unwind, and Supreme Will are all cards I'd play before them. But again, we're more or less on the same page, I think.
Updated the list after some changes and cuts. It's down to 100 now, and also I realized that I somehow failed to include the Creatures section in the list I'd posted previously, so that's there now.
Besides the obvious things like Time Spiral style effects, which may be getting a bit too good for a 75% build. I would look at Impact Tremors, Aria of Flame, and Aetherflux Reservoir as finishers. In addition, if you wanted to go a bit more Creature-lite Proteus Staff and Divergent Transformations would be fine cards to include for the ability to use the spirits to pull out your few creatures.
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My List of Current Decks: -Modern- WMartyrProcB BBurnR -Commander-
I was actually considering Time Spiral. There's a good chance that one makes it in. It'd be a pretty solid card here.
Aetherflux Reservoir was in the first draft but got cut. Impact Tremors is/was on my short list for options, so that may still come in at some point.
Aria of Flame, though. That could be a sweet idea. Completely forgot that thing got printed. Might need to find a spot for it.
There's obvious potential to the Proteus Staff and Divergent Transformations plan, with the only creatures being a couple of Eldrazi titans or something. It's possible the list may turn in that direction at some point, but for right now I don't think it's what I'm going for.
Treachery and Time Spiral are both very good in this deck for sure. Free cards, and with your fairly cheap stuff.
I think I'd prioritize spiral over windfall unless you're intending to abuse the yard somehow. With no mizzix's mastery or spelltwine that doesn't seem to be the case offhand.
I think I'd prioritize spiral over windfall unless you're intending to abuse the yard somehow. With no mizzix's mastery or spelltwine that doesn't seem to be the case offhand.
That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking. I might even swap out Wheel of Fortune for a Day's Undoing (because I'm not willing to spend thousands of dollars on a Timetwister). The downside of ending the turn isn't as big of a deal with a large number of instants, and it gets even better whenever I happen to draw Teferi, Time Raveler.
Yeah, I like Day's a lot in this deck. I also like that it and time spiral function essentially as one sided grave hate since you don't care about the yard much (and most of what you are putting back in is pure gasoline).
I really like the core of this list, but what is your primary win condition? It looks like you have the ability to produce a lot of tokens and make a lot of mana, but I don’t see many outlets for the mana production. Would Jeskai Ascendancy and Anger work in this list to pump the team and give haste? Something like Faithless Looting would give you another way to pitch Anger. If you include ascendancy and looting then Echo of Eons becomes pretty good too.
Looking forward to hear feedback and see how your list evolves.
I finally got a chance to play a few games with this list.
Definitely does make a lot of tokens. And a lot of mana. With the massive amount of draw in the deck, I very rarely felt like I was making more mana than I knew what to do with. That mostly only happened with Smothering Tithe on the table, because that card is bonkers. I did throw in a Comet Storm as an easy win con for when I have a ton of mana, that can be found off of either Spellseeker or Mystical Tutor, and can be cast solely off spirits if necessary.
Also, with the mass of tokens I was making, I decided I wanted a little more support for them, so I threw in an Intangible Virtue and a Divine Visitation. Made a few more changes to the deck too, to remove some stuff I was underwhelmed by or to fix some holes.
You're right about them being basically free whenever I've got Kykar on the table, but I found that after the first game people started to realize I shouldn't be allowed to keep Kykar on the table. Without Kykar on the table, they're very low impact cards. I may squeeze one or two of the better ones in at some point, I dunno.
Yeh, this general really only has two routes
1) play control and use Kykar as a finisher (either enabling a combo of just beats), which means playing mostly good cards that may synergize with him
2) play degenerate rush combo of some kind
If you're going the first route you need to be playing good cards or else you're gonna get stuck with Kykar on 3 casts and a hand full of crimson wisps and warlord's fury.
Every draft of this deck I built was like 75% blue as a result
Lastly, Feather, the Redeemed will work well if you focus on including cantrips which target your own creatures. Insane card draw and token production.
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Right after seeing the spoiler, I decided to quickly throw together a list of what I might want in a Kykar deck.
I'm currently over 100 cards, and it needs some refinement. I know there are some things that probably def need to go, and probably some stuff I missed that should def be here. I just wanted to share the quick list I threw together to maybe get some conversation going, people's creative juices going, etc.
Feel free to suggest adds or cuts, or completely different approaches, or just tell me I'm crazy. Whatever's good.
EDIT: I just realized that the list I posted before was somehow completely missing the creatures section, so that's there now. Also made some swaps, trimmed some fat, etc. It's down to 100 cards now.
1 Kykar, Wind's Fury
Lands (34)
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Mystic Monastery
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Prismatic Vista
1 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Prairie Stream
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Fiery Islet
1 Sunbaked Canyon
1 Strip Mine
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Plains
4 Island
1 Mountain
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Spellseeker
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Ephara, God of the Polis
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
1 Docent of Perfection
Instants (27)
1 Brainstorm
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Opt
1 Path to Exile
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tithe
1 Battle Hymn
1 Azorius Charm
1 Boros Charm
1 Comet Storm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dramatic Reversal
1 Expansion // Explosion
1 Mana Drain
1 Negate
1 Remand
1 Counterflux
1 Disallow
1 Force of Negation
1 Generous Gift
1 Jeskai Charm
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Wear // Tear
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dig Through Time
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Vandalblast
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Winds of Abandon
1 Council's Judgment
1 Time Spiral
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Treasure Cruise
Artifacts (12)
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Azorius Signet
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Izzet Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Talisman of Creativity
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Sunforger
Enchantments (5)
1 Mystic Remora
1 Intangible Virtue
1 Rhystic Study
1 Smothering Tithe
1 Divine Visitation
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Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
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Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
In general I think Kykar is going to reward large generic mana requirements so stuff like memory lapse/arcane denial/ertai's meddling/delay will likely be better than counterspell for ex.
Ephara is a very difficult to remove outlet that turns your commander's ability into "make a token, draw a card" - I think it's probably strong enough even at 4 mana that it's worth playing. She's rarely getting removed and you'll probably wind up with 10+ cards on it in a game.
All that said I think you're on the right track and the deck looks really fun
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Ephara, God of the Polis is sweet. You're absolutely right about her pairing well with Kykar, and of course that means she pairs well with the others as well.
As Foretold is a sweet card too, especially with lots of cheap stuff to play at instant speed.
I think before a lot of the other stuff you listed, I'd probably look at stuff like Impulse, Anticipate, etc, but I think our heads are in more or less the same place.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
lol, I don't want to get into a big old argument about arcane denial but specifically in this deck you can cast it for U, which is a gigantic upgrade over counterspell which really constrains your mana.
Really I would run almost any of the XB counterspells before counterspell for this reason.
The amount of flexiblity you get by being able to pass the turn with UU and 2 spirits and potentially have two counterspells is absurd.
Re: Impulse
I think my eyes glossed over it and assumed it was there. Anticipate I don't like as well, feels worse than Portent / Looting to me.
Edit: May also want to consider future sight for the infinite draw with top.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Arcane Denial, Delay, and Ertai's Meddling are great cards in a combo deck. You don't care about the downsides because you're winning the game on the spot. That's not the case here. Negate, Unwind, and Supreme Will are all cards I'd play before them. But again, we're more or less on the same page, I think.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
Aetherflux Reservoir was in the first draft but got cut. Impact Tremors is/was on my short list for options, so that may still come in at some point.
Aria of Flame, though. That could be a sweet idea. Completely forgot that thing got printed. Might need to find a spot for it.
There's obvious potential to the Proteus Staff and Divergent Transformations plan, with the only creatures being a couple of Eldrazi titans or something. It's possible the list may turn in that direction at some point, but for right now I don't think it's what I'm going for.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
I think I'd prioritize spiral over windfall unless you're intending to abuse the yard somehow. With no mizzix's mastery or spelltwine that doesn't seem to be the case offhand.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
Looking forward to hear feedback and see how your list evolves.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
crash through, crimson wisps, dragon mantle, expedite, overmaster, renegade tactics, and warlord’s fury would all work for this purpose and effectively lower the amount of cards in your deck, promoting consistency.
Definitely does make a lot of tokens. And a lot of mana. With the massive amount of draw in the deck, I very rarely felt like I was making more mana than I knew what to do with. That mostly only happened with Smothering Tithe on the table, because that card is bonkers. I did throw in a Comet Storm as an easy win con for when I have a ton of mana, that can be found off of either Spellseeker or Mystical Tutor, and can be cast solely off spirits if necessary.
Also, with the mass of tokens I was making, I decided I wanted a little more support for them, so I threw in an Intangible Virtue and a Divine Visitation. Made a few more changes to the deck too, to remove some stuff I was underwhelmed by or to fix some holes.
You're right about them being basically free whenever I've got Kykar on the table, but I found that after the first game people started to realize I shouldn't be allowed to keep Kykar on the table. Without Kykar on the table, they're very low impact cards. I may squeeze one or two of the better ones in at some point, I dunno.
---
Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
---
Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
1) play control and use Kykar as a finisher (either enabling a combo of just beats), which means playing mostly good cards that may synergize with him
2) play degenerate rush combo of some kind
If you're going the first route you need to be playing good cards or else you're gonna get stuck with Kykar on 3 casts and a hand full of crimson wisps and warlord's fury.
Every draft of this deck I built was like 75% blue as a result
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
What're your thoughts on Guttersnipe, Electrostatic field, Firebrand Archer, and Thermo-Alchemist? Along with Purphoros, God of the Forge/ Impact Tremors they can mow opponents down just burning through your cantrips.
Lastly, Feather, the Redeemed will work well if you focus on including cantrips which target your own creatures. Insane card draw and token production.