Quote from toctheyounger77 »I'm building Grixis superfriends atm, so it's nice to see someone else playing around with this too.
How is Bolas at the helm?
I'm assuming you don't have a copy of Rings of Brighthearth? Or just don't want to run it because it's grossly strong?
What about Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain in here? I'm building with a lot of rocks, personally - I've got Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge, Saheeli Rai and Tezzeret the Seeker in my mix, so it makes sense to lean into that a little. That being said, with walkers being historic she's a pretty decent draw engine that could pull some weight here.
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer seems like it could be here too - every walker you play gives you a chump blocker, and her second ability is pure shenanigan material for ramp or utility.
How has The Eldest Reborn worked out for you? Works well with proliferate obviously, does it have enough impact to consider or is it a purely flavour inclusion?
I don't have a list up as of yet, I've still got lots of stuff to pick up from the LGS, as well as a couple of higher cost walkers I'd like to add (Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God and Will Kenrith are the big tickets), but I'm pretty keen to get some feedback as to how Grixis superfriends plays as a general archetype.
One thing I really find interesting, and it kind of fits with the Bolas theme, is waiting to wrath the board. That is, giving up some walkers or letting them get attacked in order to get more use out of wraths. Rather than just always trying to keep the board clear to tick up walkers, you can allow for them to take hits (and some to die) to turn the tides in your favor later on.
Quote from toctheyounger77 »Grixis is usually brutal enough to hopefully avoid the grind, at any rate. Vial Smasher immediately puts the table on a clock anyway, so there's that
That's an interesting observation. I'd always assumed you fort out as hard as you can, but this almost sounds a lot more strategic than that. I'm really looking forward to some playtime in this area, sounds like fun. Thanks again for your thoughts!
I agree that Vial Smasher, alone, can kind of help with that feeling of the game grinding to a halt. No matter what other partner you go with, I think Vial Smasher is a great choice.
As to your comment about trying to fort out hard: that honestly might be the "right" way to run this type of deck. I do have War Tax and Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs that help deflect attacks by creating Propaganda effects, but I purposely stayed away from doing too much in that space (though Grixis doesn't have much anyway that would help Walkers). That is because I don't really want the games to become these things where I sit and durdle while everyone does nothing against me. Granted, some inclusions are mostly for creature tokens to help protect walkers, but the game still "works" for everyone where they still attack, try to get through defenses, and there is a lot of back and forth. It is possible that it still isn't as fun for everyone since there is still a pretty high focus on walkers, but I haven't gotten that impression from my group.
Quote from toctheyounger77 »Sounds like the deck is playing out nicely, all things considered. I got my list together - very much a work in progress, but if you want to compare notes feel free to here.
I’m surprised Jace, Architect of Thought isn’t pulling weight. His ultimate is something my deck would very much like to take advantage of, purely as a way to play blowout spells and get some extra damage from Vial Smasher here and there. That being said, I get that his first two abilities are a little bland. I like the pseudo-FoF for a way to fill our yard with things to resurrect. Command the Dreadhorde and such play nicely into it.
Regarding Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast, how would Saheeli the Gifted suit as a replacement? Her thopters have a bit more value than a ground-bound defender, and her 2nd ability gives you a big boost to your curve if you’re able to lean into it. My deck is very much for artifact laden than yours, but that’s not hard to tweak, especially if you’re casting non-creature spells with Saheeli, Sublime Artificer on board.
In terms of considerations for my build, you’ve got a lot of walkers here I can’t afford, but there’s a couple I could consider for my list. How have Ob Nixilis Reignited, Ral, Izzet Viceroy and Nicol Bolas, the Deceiver worked out? They seem pretty versatile, and I like that Nixilis has a non-conditional creature destruction on him. Ral seems built for a more spellslinger build though, I wonder whether his original iteration would be preferable. I can’t afford a copy, but also wondering how Liliana, the last Hope has worked out thus far? Her emblem is nuts, but I’ve always wondered how well she scales to this format outside of that.
I guess that is my issue; his ultimate is great and is one of the bigger reasons I put him in here, but I don't care for the other two abilities. And, generally, if I am using him at all it is for the mini-FoF which gets him further from the ultimate anyway. I think I have other, better, forms of card draw that he isn't needed for that. I accept that it might be a mistake to put him on the chopping block (and I am not cutting him yet) but maybe as I play with him more I will see if anything skews him to one side or the other
Ob is pretty decent for the versatility. I did get him down in the game I was playing last night and he "just" drew me cards, but being able to deal with a threat is important as well. I almost got his emblem off but I won with the Bolas ultimates first
Ral is pretty good card advantage (and also works with Command the Dreadhorde) but his minus is something I don't think I will generally use. His ultimate is pretty sweet and drew me a lot of cards and dealt with a lot of threats. I think he is worth keeping in the deck. I have 19 spells that trigger the emblem and that seemed to be enough for the game last night to get a lot of use out of him. I looked at his original card and wasn't all that impressed. I think for the 1 mana more, the new Ral is a lot better. The original is another that would basically revolve around his ultimate and even that isn't guaranteed to be that great and will likely be tough to even get to.
I was actually really close to including Nicol Bolas, the Deceiver in my list of cards above as ones that might get cut. His plus is basically useless. It is +3 so after 3 turns I can ultimate but even his ultimate is kind of underwhelming compared to everything else. His minus is probably the best ability. The main issue is that he is just mediocre I feel and mostly because he is 8 mana. The main reason I have not looked at cutting him yet is because he is still a Bolas. But I may decide that isn't important enough and end up cutting him.
Liliana is a honestly a bit tough to evaluate. Her first two abilities are kind of terrible (her second is borderline useless) but her ultimate just wins games. The problem is that she takes 5 turns to get to that ultimate so a lot of resources are needed to ensure that happens. She only kind of protects herself, but against 3 other people, someone is going to get an attack in at her. Her main appeal is being 3 mana so she comes down early which potentially allows for the ability to get to her ultimate before opponents have a good board but you are looking at turn 8 in general for that and I just can't see a situation where turn 8 rolls by and nobody has attacked into her or killed her yet without a lot of focus on keeping her alive. I don't think she is worth it but I have been close to her ultimate a couple times so it is hard to just outright cut her.