Okay, now that is done let's look at what we have here. Sea monsters deck okay I have
seen a few versions of this.
Now my first thought is that you have too many sea monsters and not enough ramp you don't want to end up with 6-9 drops in hand with only a few lands. I'd pick out only the best sea monsters than push most of the deck into ramp.
I'm not sure if you're going to be able to leverage this better in your deck or the rest of the table, but dictate of karametra COULD be good, but it's very risky.
I'm also wondering; how would you like your deck to win? do you go like, aggro the table with sea monsters? It might be worth looking into finding some number of trample enablers, so you don't get chump blocked all day.
Dunharrow is absolutely right about your mana base. Enemy color pairs generally get the shaft when it comes to dual lands, but there are still enough solid options out there that you should be able to run at least half a dozen. In addition to his suggestions, I'd get a Simic Guildgate and a Thornwood Falls.
It would also help to list your main goal(s)/theme(s) for the deck. It sounds like you want to play sea monsters? Better get some cheap ramp spells to be able to afford them all. Make sure that they all check two very important boxes: 3cc or less so they can come out before your sea monsters do, and try not to make them mana dorks, because creatures can't be used right away like lands and they die a lot. Because your commander is technically a "land" sometimes, you can probably get away with creatures that untap lands. For example, Sakura-Tribe Elder and Wood Elves are essentials, Voyaging Satyr is fine given your commander, and Quirion Elves are bad bordering on unplayable.
And, as usual, it's easier to suggest cards to add than cards to cut, so I'll do the latter:
- Naturalize: in spite of its cost, this is a bit too underwhelming for a format that lets you play all the giant sea monsters. For one more mana, Krosan Grip is much stronger, and Beast Within is more flexible. For the same cost, Deglamer and Unravel the Aether can deal with Theros Gods.
- Dragon Throne of Tarkir: This costs nine mana to get paid off, is easily disrupted by removing either the equipment or the body it's attached to, and only really works well if you have a lot of smaller bodies to take advantage of the bonus (instead you have a few big bodies).
- Prismatic Lens: You're only two colors, so the second line is mostly irrelevant, and you're green, so you have better ways to ramp.
- Hedron Archive: I'm all for the flexibility of cashing in your rock for two cards, but at four mana you'd always rather cast your commander, and for one less mana, you could just play Simic Locket. Also, green decks should never run artifact ramp.
- Sphere of the Suns: See above.
- Soul's Majesty and Rush of Knowledge: The former is especially bad because it doesn't work if someone else removes the target. Both are bad because you need to have an actual creature in play to make them work, and your commander doesn't always count, and creatures die a lot.
I have an Arixmethes Sea Monster tribal deck that has become one of my favorite decks, and is surprisingly resilient. At first it was a very slow and clunky deck, but as I identified better what it was trying to do as a deck and tightened up those synergies, it's become one of my more powerful ones. I will share all the tips and tricks i've learned along the way in developing that deck in hopes you can glean some good info for your own.
I identified three main things that my Arixmethes deck needed or cared about:
Slowing down my opponents and/or speeding up my own ramp so i have time to cast the big CMC sea monsters
Cards with counters on them
Evasion/Actually hitting with the big beaters and not being chump blocked (Nothing feels worse than having Arixmethes awaken from his slumber only to get chumped by 1/1 tokens every round until he gets removed)
The biggest problem with this tactic, I found, is that often you hit your own mana rocks or mana dorks and slow yourself down. But with access to green, this isn't that big a problem. I replaced all of my ramp with spells/effects that put a land into play, avoiding bounce setbacks. The only artifact ramp worth running in this is Sol Ring, Mana Vault, and Mana Crypt as those are all mana rocks that actually give you advantage if you bounce them.
Cards with Counters: Clockspinning is a must have for this deck. Remove 2 counters from Arixmethes for 1 mana at instant speed, or 4 from him for 5 mana at instant speed is brutal and can catch your opponents off guard. The great thing is that the card also interacts with Deep-sea Kraken, Quest for Ula's Temple, and Kiora, the Crashing Wave. I would also consider adding Thing in the Ice to your deck, as it fits both theme, adds more bounce effects, and can synergize with token removal. Slightly off-theme but a great synergy here would also be Hex Parasite to speed up your counter removal. In my deck, i also found Dark Depths to be a thematic addition that also interacts with my counter removal synergies, adding it and [/c]Thespian Stage[/c] as a combo wincon that has won me several games.
Gearseeker Serpent - 7 CMC for a 5/6 is a heavy price, 13 if you want him unblockable. As stated before, Thassa can make anything unblockable for 5 mana (cast and activation) and is indestructible herself.
Fleet Swallower - Your deck doesn't care about milling and can't take advantage of it. It can't even be used as a wincon because fleet swallower will never mill out your opponent, it will always give you diminishing returns. 7 cmc for a 6/6 isn't great, and he still gets hit by Whelming Wave and Slinn Voda.
Frantic Search - Doesn't give you card advantage. Thassa can scry for you if you need it. If you need filtering, cards like Preordain or Opt are far better.
Elder Deep-Fiend - I ran him originally in my deck, but found 8 CMC was too expensive for a 5/6, and leaving that much mana up to flash him in was usually a huge tipoff to opponents.
Lorthos, the Tidemaker - ALWAYS ended up being a dead draw for me, either being too expensive early game, or not impactful enough compared to other cards in hand late game
The hard truth is that sea monster tribal is never going to be very good. The number of payoffs is close to zero, and the ones that exist are highly questionable. On top of that, slamming expensive beaters with few other relevant abilities is a terrible strategy in commander just in general, and most of your sea monsters are very weak cards. That's not to say you can't tune it, but don't expect the world from it.
Arixmethes itself is a very strong card, though. If you want some ideas for making a good arixmethes deck, you can take a look at the one in my sig.
But assuming you're sticking to your sea monster tribal guns...
Anyone suggesting 3-mana ramp spells is just flatly wrong. Arixmethes is a guaranteed 4 mana ramp spell, so you should plan your curve around that, which means packing in 2-mana ramp spells or mana rocks - fellwar stone, rampant growth, nature's lore, three visits (if you can afford it), farseek, the guys that untap lands and cost 2 (which you're already including - they're excellent), etc. Running a 3 mana ramp spell is basically losing an entire turn in your ramp plan for marginal upside. You should be playing 2-mana ramp on turn 2 (assuming you didn't draw fast mana) into arixmethes on turn 3 and then playing business spells on turn 4. I'd aim for at least 10-15 2-mana ramp spells.
Frantic Search - Doesn't give you card advantage. Thassa can scry for you if you need it. If you need filtering, cards like Preordain or Opt are far better.
Frantic search is a ritual in arixmethes (provided you have arixmethes out). It's more than just a filtering spell. Also it doesn't just "not give you card advantage" (neither does preordain or opt), it gives you card disadvantage (also like a ritual).
Anyway not 100% sure it should be in, but it's stronger here than most decks.
I’d add Thassa, God of the Sea. He will filter your draws, but more importantly, will give all your sea monsters evasion. I have a sea monster deck with Thassa as a commander, and it’s decent.
Frantic search is a ritual in arixmethes (provided you have arixmethes out). It's more than just a filtering spell. Also it doesn't just "not give you card advantage" (neither does preordain or opt), it gives you card disadvantage (also like a ritual).
Aye, sorry I wasn't as specifically clear in what I meant there. I know none of those give card advantage, I was just assuming he's either including Frantic Search mistakenly as a 'draw' spell, or using it for filtering. I was offering alternatives that at least draw to replace themselves if he preferred the filtering, although i'd suggest going for straight draw in this.
And as far as Sea Monster tribal, it CAN be done effectively. Sure, by going with any theme you're knowingly hobbling your build options. I didn't expect mine to be anything to call home about, but it's actually become one of my stronger decks after much tuning. It's not competitive, but I've had mine consistently win in casual multiplayer.
And as far as Sea Monster tribal, it CAN be done effectively. Sure, by going with any theme you're knowingly hobbling your build options. I didn't expect mine to be anything to call home about, but it's actually become one of my stronger decks after much tuning. It's not competitive, but I've had mine consistently win in casual multiplayer.
Kinda depends on what you call a theme, but a "theme" like goblin tribal for krenko obviously doesn't weaken your deck at all, because there are good payoffs (most notably krenko himself). Whereas for sea monsters there's only a couple payoffs and they're all quite bad.
I mean, if it's the flavor that you like, then you should build what makes you happy, but I wouldn't call sea monster tribal a strategy, per se. It's something akin to building a deck where all the cards have the same artist, or something like that.
Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle
1 Nimbus Swimmer
1 Whisperer of the Wilds
1 Quirion Elves
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Beastcaller Savant
1 Drover of the Mighty
1 Fierce Empath
1 Kiora's Follower
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Tatyova, Benthic Druid
1 Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma
1 Kederekt Leviathan
1 Scrapdiver Serpent
1 Stormsurge Kraken
1 Elder Deep-Fiend
1 Gearseeker Serpent
1 Striped Riverwinder
1 Tidal Kraken
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Deep-Sea Kraken
1 Trench Gorger
1 Shipbreaker Kraken
1 Kraken of the Straits
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Scourge of Fleets
1 Aethersquall Ancient
1 Fleet Swallower
1 Benthic Behemoth
1 Lorthos, the Tidemaker
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Tromokratis
1 Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep
1 Grozoth
1 Breaching Leviathan
1 Pemmin's Aura
1 Freed from the Real
1 Quest for Ula's Temple
1 Colossal Majesty
1 Archetype of Imagination
14 Island
13 Forest
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Bant Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Warped Landscape
1 Woodland Stream
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Sphere of the Suns
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Simic Signet
1 Dragon Throne of Tarkir
1 Hedron Archive
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Rewind
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Naturalize
1 Negate
1 Engulf the Shore
1 Unwind
1 Frantic Search
1 Far Wanderings
1 Edge of Autumn
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Whelming Wave
1 Rush of Knowledge
1 Displacement Wave
1 Traverse the Outlands
1 Broken Bond
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Nimbus Swimmer
1 Whisperer of the Wilds
1 Quirion Elves
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Beastcaller Savant
1 Drover of the Mighty
1 Fierce Empath
1 Kiora's Follower
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Tatyova, Benthic Druid
1 Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma
1 Kederekt Leviathan
1 Scrapdiver Serpent
1 Stormsurge Kraken
1 Elder Deep-Fiend
1 Gearseeker Serpent
1 Striped Riverwinder
1 Tidal Kraken
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Deep-Sea Kraken
1 Trench Gorger
1 Shipbreaker Kraken
1 Kraken of the Straits
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Scourge of Fleets
1 Aethersquall Ancient
1 Fleet Swallower
1 Benthic Behemoth
1 Lorthos, the Tidemaker
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Tromokratis
1 Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep
1 Grozoth
1 Breaching Leviathan
1 Pemmin's Aura
1 Freed from the Real
1 Quest for Ula's Temple
1 Colossal Majesty
1 Archetype of Imagination
Lands
14 Island
13 Forest
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Bant Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Warped Landscape
1 Woodland Stream
Artifacts
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Sphere of the Suns
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Simic Signet
1 Dragon Throne of Tarkir
1 Hedron Archive
1 Inkwell Leviathan
Instants
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Rewind
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Naturalize
1 Negate
1 Engulf the Shore
1 Unwind
1 Frantic Search
1 Far Wanderings
1 Edge of Autumn
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Whelming Wave
1 Rush of Knowledge
1 Displacement Wave
1 Traverse the Outlands
1 Broken Bond
Planeswalker
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Okay, now that is done let's look at what we have here. Sea monsters deck okay I have
seen a few versions of this.
Now my first thought is that you have too many sea monsters and not enough ramp you don't want to end up with 6-9 drops in hand with only a few lands. I'd pick out only the best sea monsters than push most of the deck into ramp.
I would also like a few ways to cheat the sea monsters into play, Quicksilver Amulet and Thran Temporal Gateway, Belbe's Portal.
I would remove cards that are situational that need a sea monster in play to work and focus on getting a sea monster in play as your first goal.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
you have 35 lands + 4-5 mana ramping in the form of artefacts, and a couple more as instants and sorceries. I don't think that's enough. stuff like growth spiral, urban evolution, cultivate, kodama's reach, nature's lore could be good, as could cards like magus of the candelabra.
I'm not sure if you're going to be able to leverage this better in your deck or the rest of the table, but dictate of karametra COULD be good, but it's very risky.
I'm also wondering; how would you like your deck to win? do you go like, aggro the table with sea monsters? It might be worth looking into finding some number of trample enablers, so you don't get chump blocked all day.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Why is there no Sol Ring?
Also, you have too many basic lands. Ash Barrens, Hinterland Harbor, Yavimaya Coast and Botanical Sanctum are great pick ups.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
It would also help to list your main goal(s)/theme(s) for the deck. It sounds like you want to play sea monsters? Better get some cheap ramp spells to be able to afford them all. Make sure that they all check two very important boxes: 3cc or less so they can come out before your sea monsters do, and try not to make them mana dorks, because creatures can't be used right away like lands and they die a lot. Because your commander is technically a "land" sometimes, you can probably get away with creatures that untap lands. For example, Sakura-Tribe Elder and Wood Elves are essentials, Voyaging Satyr is fine given your commander, and Quirion Elves are bad bordering on unplayable.
And, as usual, it's easier to suggest cards to add than cards to cut, so I'll do the latter:
- Naturalize: in spite of its cost, this is a bit too underwhelming for a format that lets you play all the giant sea monsters. For one more mana, Krosan Grip is much stronger, and Beast Within is more flexible. For the same cost, Deglamer and Unravel the Aether can deal with Theros Gods.
- Dragon Throne of Tarkir: This costs nine mana to get paid off, is easily disrupted by removing either the equipment or the body it's attached to, and only really works well if you have a lot of smaller bodies to take advantage of the bonus (instead you have a few big bodies).
- Prismatic Lens: You're only two colors, so the second line is mostly irrelevant, and you're green, so you have better ways to ramp.
- Hedron Archive: I'm all for the flexibility of cashing in your rock for two cards, but at four mana you'd always rather cast your commander, and for one less mana, you could just play Simic Locket. Also, green decks should never run artifact ramp.
- Sphere of the Suns: See above.
- Soul's Majesty and Rush of Knowledge: The former is especially bad because it doesn't work if someone else removes the target. Both are bad because you need to have an actual creature in play to make them work, and your commander doesn't always count, and creatures die a lot.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I identified three main things that my Arixmethes deck needed or cared about:
Slowing down your opponent:
You have a small package that does this with Breaching Leviathan, Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep, Whelming Wave, Displacement Wave, and Engulf the Shore, as well as the control aspects of Rewind, Unwind, and Negate. First, I would consider swapping out the counters for ones that can ramp you and help cast out your big CMC's, such as Plasm Capture, Counterlash, Mana Drain, Scattering Stroke, or Spell Swindle. Depending on what i sideboard, I run 2 to 4 of these in my deck at any one time. I would also run around 4-8 of the wide-hitting/repeatable bounce effects, and include cards such as Equilibrium, Cyclonic Rift, Scourge of Fleets, Capsize, Cryptic Command, Mystic Confluence, or River's Rebuke.
The biggest problem with this tactic, I found, is that often you hit your own mana rocks or mana dorks and slow yourself down. But with access to green, this isn't that big a problem. I replaced all of my ramp with spells/effects that put a land into play, avoiding bounce setbacks. The only artifact ramp worth running in this is Sol Ring, Mana Vault, and Mana Crypt as those are all mana rocks that actually give you advantage if you bounce them.
Cards with Counters:
Clockspinning is a must have for this deck. Remove 2 counters from Arixmethes for 1 mana at instant speed, or 4 from him for 5 mana at instant speed is brutal and can catch your opponents off guard. The great thing is that the card also interacts with Deep-sea Kraken, Quest for Ula's Temple, and Kiora, the Crashing Wave. I would also consider adding Thing in the Ice to your deck, as it fits both theme, adds more bounce effects, and can synergize with token removal. Slightly off-theme but a great synergy here would also be Hex Parasite to speed up your counter removal. In my deck, i also found Dark Depths to be a thematic addition that also interacts with my counter removal synergies, adding it and [/c]Thespian Stage[/c] as a combo wincon that has won me several games.
Evasion:
You have some evasion with cards like Rogue's Passage, Gearseeker Serpent, Scrapdiver Serpent, Tidal Kraken, Kraken of the Straits, Stormtide Leviathan, and Archetype of Imagination. I would replace the expensive to use Gearseeker and Scrapdiver with Thassa, God of the Sea as a much easier to cast solution that can target your own commander. Islandwalk creatures are great inclusion, and can easily be enabled with your Stormtide Leviathan or a Quicksilver Fountain (Which will also slow down your opponents). Deepchannel Mentor is also a must-have. Tempest Caller can also tap down everything to allow a big final push.
Cards I would cut:
Arixmethes itself is a very strong card, though. If you want some ideas for making a good arixmethes deck, you can take a look at the one in my sig.
But assuming you're sticking to your sea monster tribal guns...
Anyone suggesting 3-mana ramp spells is just flatly wrong. Arixmethes is a guaranteed 4 mana ramp spell, so you should plan your curve around that, which means packing in 2-mana ramp spells or mana rocks - fellwar stone, rampant growth, nature's lore, three visits (if you can afford it), farseek, the guys that untap lands and cost 2 (which you're already including - they're excellent), etc. Running a 3 mana ramp spell is basically losing an entire turn in your ramp plan for marginal upside. You should be playing 2-mana ramp on turn 2 (assuming you didn't draw fast mana) into arixmethes on turn 3 and then playing business spells on turn 4. I'd aim for at least 10-15 2-mana ramp spells. Frantic search is a ritual in arixmethes (provided you have arixmethes out). It's more than just a filtering spell. Also it doesn't just "not give you card advantage" (neither does preordain or opt), it gives you card disadvantage (also like a ritual).
Anyway not 100% sure it should be in, but it's stronger here than most decks.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsAye, sorry I wasn't as specifically clear in what I meant there. I know none of those give card advantage, I was just assuming he's either including Frantic Search mistakenly as a 'draw' spell, or using it for filtering. I was offering alternatives that at least draw to replace themselves if he preferred the filtering, although i'd suggest going for straight draw in this.
And as far as Sea Monster tribal, it CAN be done effectively. Sure, by going with any theme you're knowingly hobbling your build options. I didn't expect mine to be anything to call home about, but it's actually become one of my stronger decks after much tuning. It's not competitive, but I've had mine consistently win in casual multiplayer.
I mean, if it's the flavor that you like, then you should build what makes you happy, but I wouldn't call sea monster tribal a strategy, per se. It's something akin to building a deck where all the cards have the same artist, or something like that.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6