Hello friends! My wife wanted a new tribal deck starring Nath, utilizing our new Demonic Tutor in a way that felt like it'd lead to some different play patterns and not be too samey. The trial run of the deck went...poorly, and I fear in trying to be a Discard Combo Deck AND an Elf Tribal deck it's doing badly at both. In her first few games, the deck ended up getting stuck on lands after her commander died a few times, and the deck just fizzled after a boardwipe or two. Help is appreciated!
Here's a list of our Maybeboard - cards we own that almost made the cut - and the "Not in the Cards" list - stuff we've attempted to obtain that sadly is currently unobtainable due to budget or local market issues.
I'm also able and open to adding generic ramp and removal (Kodama's Reach, Sakura-tribe Elder, Doomblade, etc), and will note that my wife intentionally and specifically wants to eschew any discard spell that also hits her and isn't already in the deck - Delirium Skeins, Bottomless Pit, and Necrogen Mists were intentionally cut.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
GB does value best, however the current list seems to be focused on token swarms.
I think that if you were to put good value cards over some swarm cards, your deck would be better than if you were to do the opposite.
Cards you mentioned:
Unobtained: Sadistic Hypnotist - is a combo with Nath to discard all opponents' hands and put a bunch of tokens. Make sure your meta is OK with this card first, and if it is prepare to start winning games. Craterhoof Behemoth - the ultimate wincon in this deck, especially when you fetch it with Green Sun's Zenith or Tooth and Nail. Speaking of which, GSZ is a green staple. Torment of Hailfire - you have a TON of ways to generate mana in this deck and this seems like the ultimate way to utilize it. Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - not too exciting, but solid.
I'm not sure if I'd bother with the rest of them.
Cards that seem amazing in your deck that you didn't mention: Death Cloud - you'll want to cast this card with your commander out. Your opponents will discard their hand and sacrifice their entire board, while you'll get an army of tokens to finish the game. Again, make sure your meta is OK with this card. Skullclamp - WHY IS THIS CARD NOT HERE????? Must have. This card is the reason you run symmetrical discard outlets. Opponents' discards turn into tokens which you then convert into more cards for you. Necropotence - oppressive. This card will win games on its own. Beastmaster Ascension - another 1 card powerhouse. Earthcraft - probably out of your budget but still worth mentioning. One of the best for this deck. On a budget Cryptolith Rite does much of the same. Phyrexian Arena - just solid card draw. Chord of Calling - I know you don't want your deck to be too linear, but this card is just too good not to run here. Mind Slash - get rid of whatever you want from your opponents' cards as long as you have black mana. Seems strong. Regal Force, and maybe even Shamanic Revelation Painful Quandry Liliana, Heretical Healer seems very strong when she flips here. Nullmage Shepherd - it's an elf and it uses your tokens to kill stuff. Solid.
GB does value best, however the current list seems to be focused on token swarms.
I think that if you were to put good value cards over some swarm cards, your deck would be better than if you were to do the opposite.
Cards you mentioned:
Unobtained: Sadistic Hypnotist - is a combo with Nath to discard all opponents' hands and put a bunch of tokens. Make sure your meta is OK with this card first, and if it is prepare to start winning games. Craterhoof Behemoth - the ultimate wincon in this deck, especially when you fetch it with Green Sun's Zenith or Tooth and Nail. Speaking of which, GSZ is a green staple. Torment of Hailfire - you have a TON of ways to generate mana in this deck and this seems like the ultimate way to utilize it. Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - not too exciting, but solid.
I'm not sure if I'd bother with the rest of them.
Cards that seem amazing in your deck that you didn't mention: Death Cloud - you'll want to cast this card with your commander out. Your opponents will discard their hand and sacrifice their entire board, while you'll get an army of tokens to finish the game. Again, make sure your meta is OK with this card. Skullclamp - WHY IS THIS CARD NOT HERE????? Must have. This card is the reason you run symmetrical discard outlets. Opponents' discards turn into tokens which you then convert into more cards for you. Necropotence - oppressive. This card will win games on its own. Beastmaster Ascension - another 1 card powerhouse. Earthcraft - probably out of your budget but still worth mentioning. One of the best for this deck. On a budget Cryptolith Rite does much of the same. Phyrexian Arena - just solid card draw. Chord of Calling - I know you don't want your deck to be too linear, but this card is just too good not to run here. Mind Slash - get rid of whatever you want from your opponents' cards as long as you have black mana. Seems strong. Regal Force, and maybe even Shamanic Revelation Painful Quandry Liliana, Heretical Healer seems very strong when she flips here. Nullmage Shepherd - it's an elf and it uses your tokens to kill stuff. Solid.
Lys Alana Scarblade and Golgari Charm were definitely among the underperformers of our playtest so I'll cut them first. I'll also take a long cold look at Hivemaster (since it lacks tribal synergy) and Archers and Vanquisher (since they're "just stats" in a swarm deck). Calling out Overwhelming Stampede and Akroma's Memorial was smart too - the dream was to dump four+ counters on something with Immaculate Magistrate and then go ham with Stampede giving everyone +6/+6 or something, but in practice that's far too silly and inconsistent. You are probably right that Eldrazi Monument is better as a way to protect the swarm while Beastmaster Ascension will provide more devastating punch as a finisher card...I hope we have a spare.
Skullclamp is also a huge oversight, and will be added in immediately.
The idea behind Horn of Greed, Rites of Flourishing, Temple Bell, and Howling Mine was to have a way to fill opposing hands so that they had more to lose but I think in practice running all four is total overkill, with Rites and Mine being particularly bad. Bell is nice because you can activate it on an opponent's end step and then immediately take the card with Nath but Mine and Rites are probably going to backfire spectacularly more often than they succeed in netting a few extra tokens.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
You never want to give your opponents cards. It's cool that you get tokens when they discard, but it doesn't have to happen all the time. The thing is that you want them to be in topdeck mode until you find your finishers to kill with the tokens you do have.
Otherwise, you're just giving them more odds to draw something that kills your board state.
EDIT: The only card which I would consider keeping would be Temple Bell, since I accept your game plan for it.
5 Nath of the Gilt-leaf
Creatures: 32
1 Arbor Elf
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Essence Warden
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Quirion Ranger
2 Bramblewood Paragon
2 Priest of Titania
2 Wellwisher
2 Wirewood Hivemaster
2 Wren's Run Vanquisher
3 Elvish Archdruid
3 Elvish Champion
3 Elvish Harbinger
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Imperious Perfect
3 Jagged-Scar Archers
3 Lys Alana Scarblade
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Shaman of the Pack
3 Timberwatch Elf
3 Wood Elves
4 Beast Whisperer
4 Chameleon Colossus
4 Golgari Findbroker
4 Immaculate Magistrate
4 Lys Alana Huntmaster
4 Wirewood Channeler
5 Bloodgift Demon
5 Gilt-leaf Winnower
1 Sol Ring
2 Howling Mine
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Swiftfoot Boots
3 Horn of Greed
3 Temple Bell
4 Geth's Grimoire
5 Vanquisher's Banner
7 Akroma's Memorial
Enchantments: 8
1 Bloodchief Ascension
2 Waste Not
3 Fecundity
3 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
3 Megrim
3 Rites of Flourishing
5 Larceny
6 Mana Reflection
Instants and Sorceries: 15
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Go for the Throat
2 Golgari Charm
2 Sign in Blood
3 Dark Deal
3 Dismember
3 Eyeblight's Ending
4 Elvish Promenade
3 Putrefy
4 Syphon Mind
4 Unnerve
5 Wretched Confluence
5 Overwhelming Stampede
6 Exsanguinate
6 Profane Command
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Geir Reach Sanitarium
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Command Tower
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Golgari Rot-farm
1 Gilt-leaf Palace
1 High Market
14 Forest
10 Swamp
Here's a list of our Maybeboard - cards we own that almost made the cut - and the "Not in the Cards" list - stuff we've attempted to obtain that sadly is currently unobtainable due to budget or local market issues.
1 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Mentor
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Korozda Guildmage
3 Marwyn, the Nurterer
4 Masked Admirers
3 Eternal Witness
4 Fell Specter
8 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
3 Read the Bones
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Harmonize
5 Coat of Arms
5 Hurricane
1 Joraga Warcaller
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
5 Sadistic Hypnotist
8 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Liliana's Caress
3 Liliana of the Veil
5 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
5 Liliana Vess
5 Memory Jar
7 Torment of Hailfire
I'm also able and open to adding generic ramp and removal (Kodama's Reach, Sakura-tribe Elder, Doomblade, etc), and will note that my wife intentionally and specifically wants to eschew any discard spell that also hits her and isn't already in the deck - Delirium Skeins, Bottomless Pit, and Necrogen Mists were intentionally cut.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I think that if you were to put good value cards over some swarm cards, your deck would be better than if you were to do the opposite.
Cards you mentioned:
Unobtained:
Sadistic Hypnotist - is a combo with Nath to discard all opponents' hands and put a bunch of tokens. Make sure your meta is OK with this card first, and if it is prepare to start winning games.
Craterhoof Behemoth - the ultimate wincon in this deck, especially when you fetch it with Green Sun's Zenith or Tooth and Nail. Speaking of which, GSZ is a green staple.
Torment of Hailfire - you have a TON of ways to generate mana in this deck and this seems like the ultimate way to utilize it.
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - not too exciting, but solid.
I'm not sure if I'd bother with the rest of them.
Obtainable:
Eternal Witness - green staple.
Ezuri, Renegade Leader - the second best wincon in the deck and an all around great card for you.
Heritage Druid
Elvish Visionary - at the very least, it's a solid placeholder.
Marwyn, the Nurturer - this guy seems amazing in this deck.
Cards that seem amazing in your deck that you didn't mention:
Death Cloud - you'll want to cast this card with your commander out. Your opponents will discard their hand and sacrifice their entire board, while you'll get an army of tokens to finish the game. Again, make sure your meta is OK with this card.
Skullclamp - WHY IS THIS CARD NOT HERE????? Must have. This card is the reason you run symmetrical discard outlets. Opponents' discards turn into tokens which you then convert into more cards for you.
Necropotence - oppressive. This card will win games on its own.
Beastmaster Ascension - another 1 card powerhouse.
Earthcraft - probably out of your budget but still worth mentioning. One of the best for this deck. On a budget Cryptolith Rite does much of the same.
Phyrexian Arena - just solid card draw.
Chord of Calling - I know you don't want your deck to be too linear, but this card is just too good not to run here.
Mind Slash - get rid of whatever you want from your opponents' cards as long as you have black mana. Seems strong.
Regal Force, and maybe even Shamanic Revelation
Painful Quandry
Liliana, Heretical Healer seems very strong when she flips here.
Nullmage Shepherd - it's an elf and it uses your tokens to kill stuff. Solid.
Experimental:
Lifecrafter's Bestiary
Mindblade Render - your tokens are warriors. This card means that you can ping your opponents to get cards.
Driven // Despair
Several cards that strike me as weak:
What does Quirion Ranger do for you?
Wirewood Hivemaster
Wren's Run Vanquisher
Jagged-Scar Archers
Lys Alana Scarblade
Shaman of the Pack
Timberwatch Elf
Lys Alana Huntmaster
Temple Bell
Horn of Greed
Akroma's Memorial - amazing card but fares best with fat creatures, not with tons of tokens. Perhaps Eldrazi Monument suits you better.
Overwhelming Stampede - again, fits fatter creatures more than creatures swarms. Ezuri has an Overrun ability, so you'll want to run him.
Rites of Flourishing
Golgari Charm - just bad here.
Exsanguinate - amazing EDH card, but I don't feel like this is what you want to do.
Profane Command - it's a viable card, but personally I'm not a fan.
Howling Mine
Thanks so much! This is hugely helpful.
Lys Alana Scarblade and Golgari Charm were definitely among the underperformers of our playtest so I'll cut them first. I'll also take a long cold look at Hivemaster (since it lacks tribal synergy) and Archers and Vanquisher (since they're "just stats" in a swarm deck). Calling out Overwhelming Stampede and Akroma's Memorial was smart too - the dream was to dump four+ counters on something with Immaculate Magistrate and then go ham with Stampede giving everyone +6/+6 or something, but in practice that's far too silly and inconsistent. You are probably right that Eldrazi Monument is better as a way to protect the swarm while Beastmaster Ascension will provide more devastating punch as a finisher card...I hope we have a spare.
Skullclamp is also a huge oversight, and will be added in immediately.
The idea behind Horn of Greed, Rites of Flourishing, Temple Bell, and Howling Mine was to have a way to fill opposing hands so that they had more to lose but I think in practice running all four is total overkill, with Rites and Mine being particularly bad. Bell is nice because you can activate it on an opponent's end step and then immediately take the card with Nath but Mine and Rites are probably going to backfire spectacularly more often than they succeed in netting a few extra tokens.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Otherwise, you're just giving them more odds to draw something that kills your board state.
EDIT: The only card which I would consider keeping would be Temple Bell, since I accept your game plan for it.