MTG Salvation

With the set release of Guilds of Ravnica I noticed a LOT of additional payoff cards for spellcast. I had previously built Jori En but I found that I wasn't happy with the amount of payoff cards for spellcasting at the time. Since then we have gotten a LOT more toys and I find the payoff to be a lot better now.

What does this do? The basic concept here is to play cards that generate free value when you cast an instant or sorcery spell like say Electrostatic Field or Talrand, Sky Summoner. Once those cards are in play I plan to chain cheap cantrip spells to cycle through my deck and trigger for a TON of free value from cards that care about me casting these cheap spells.

Why Jori En? To be honest, there are a ton of options on who to run as a commander in UR for a spellcast commander. Most of the other options cost more mana and seem more commander centric I guess is my answer. What I like about Jori En is that she has somewhat of a smaller threat profile and she makes the deck run smoother but is not required to play and or do well. She greases the wheels and lets the deck run smoother but is not so integral that the deck can't run without her. Sometimes when your deck is heavy on cantrips the worst thing that can happen is just drawing into lands and or non cantrip spells because they can run you out of steam. Having Jori En on hand helps smooth over some of that issue and lets some of these cards that literally just replace themselves to generate some additional card draw. Having a cheaper commander who comes in sooner also helps me keep my curve lower and makes the necessity of running a heavier ramp package less important than some of the 6 mana commander options.

75% - I intentionally avoid infinite combos and mass land disruption effects as a general approach to how I play magic. This deck is fairly optimized beyond that with the one exception that I have tried tuning down the number of extra turns for this deck. I think that Time Warp effects are incredibly powerful and synergistic with this build but I have chosen to omit many of them due to the general feel and experience of my meta when I cast them.

Been playing this for a few weeks and I wanted to shift the curve down a bit and bolster some of the cheaper effects that care about spellcast as well as my ability to cheap spellcast.

DECK CHANGES:

• Spellseeker -> Thermo-Alchemist Spellseeker was ok but I mostly found myself just tutoring for spot removal with it. The cost to toolbox felt a little high considering my density of spells and types of spells doesn't seem like it varied that much. In the end I felt like mostly the only different spell was cyclonic rift and while I like tutoring for that I could probably just as easily do that with Muddle the Mixture. I have been impressed with the performance of Electrostatic Field so I want to double down and see if going deeper works out for me.
• Chrome Mox -> Cackling Counterpart I have a number of cards that care about spellcast that are really nice to double down on. The fact that this is a spell is really nice too as it lets me go deeper on my spellcast matter effects while triggering them. I haven't flashed it back yet but it seems like something I want to toy with and see how it plays.
• Sensei's Divining Top -> Rite of Replication top is good for the commander but for everything else I was doing here it felt clunky and slow. I am playing around with clones and what ones to play but I like the versatility as well as the fact that rite is a sorcery. I think for this deck as it stands my intention is mostly not kicking it but who knows, we will see how it goes. Unlike Cackling Counterpart, I can target opponents creatures with this one. It is possible I might also play with the idea of Stolen Identity depending on how these things work out but ultimately this deck isn't really built to attack so the high cost + hope to repeatedly connect seems a little sketchy but its probably about as viable as Sword of the Animist / Dowsing Dagger which I am currently testing.
• Isochron Scepter -> Sword of the Animist Isochron is cool and all, I just found myself feeling like it was slowing me down. Getting more lands into play should ideally help me chain more things. I also really love Sword with 3 drop commanders and turning into a 3/4 creature should give me some options to not die on attacking.
• Torpor Orb -> Firebrand Archer torpor is great when it works out, I just didn't feel like I cared enough to artifact toolbox and I also felt like I am moving fast enough that this card being not really on theme felt slow to me. Electrostatic Field has been doing good work for me so I want to go deeper and see how it goes for me.
• As Foretold -> Dowsing Dagger the enchantment has felt slow to spin up. I like how the dagger can likely give me back most of the mana investment of playing it the same turn. I like at least testing and trying out Dowsing with 3 mana commanders.
• Metallurgic Summonings -> Magus of the Future I kept feeling like Metallurgic Summonings felt slow given the tokens don't fly and its such a pain in the ass to keep track of the different sized tokens. In the end, it felt like overpaying for Young Pyromancer given the consistency of this deck. Future Sight was REALLY good the one time I got it in that I probably drew 5+ cards a turn off of being able to play from my topdeck with this deck. I want to get more testing in with Future Sight effects given that this deck is mostly all gas.
• Swarm Intelligence -> Primal Amulet the cost to play these expensive enchantments felt too slow considering too often I was only left with the option to tap out for them. Primal Amulet is interesting in that it costs a lot less to cast so I could possibly multi task it. Cost reducing spells is not irrelevant and this deck should be able to flip it fairly quickly and turn it into ramp + value.
• Fumble -> Pact of Negation fumble felt a little weak as of right now. If I played against more equipment / auras it would probably be different but right now too often I was faced with the equipment I was seeing being hexproof / shroud equip. Pact seems helpful for this deck even though I am staying with a low counter magic plan I like having an emergency counter now and then.
• Ancestral Vision -> Frantic Search Vision is wayyyyyyyyyyy too slow. It felt like bad Treasure Cruise too often so I think I will be happy to be rid of it. Frantic Search should be helpful in moving cards stuck in my hand and the untap is interesting in light of some of the new transform land adds like Dowsing Dagger and Primal Amulet.
• Aether Gale -> Sorcerous Sight Gale has been a little awkward for me a few times now. Ultimately I think I am just happier to have Wash Out in a lot of cases in case someone dumps a bunch of tokens or something. Essentially ever 1 mana cantrip has been incredible for me so lets add more. I like how political I can be with the hand peeks as I can make other players wary of each other if I want to reveal info.
• Baral's Expertise -> Ray of Erasure less slow sorcery spells and more cantrips please.
• Kher Keep -> Gemstone Caverns this deck is mana hungry and it has a lot to do constantly with the mana. Caverns seems like what this deck wants. The keep has been slow when I have seen it and colorless mana is a pain here.

I am also toying with the idea of Quiet Speculation (4 flashback spells in the list) and Sword of Feast and Famine as potential inclusions here. The sword brings up the question of how often could I connect based on its evasions or possibly having a flyer but with some of the new lands not to mention how color intensive a lot of our casts are. Its also appealing from the standpoint of playing a spellcast enabler first main and then untapping my mana into being able to use it. Quiet Speculation given that I care about spellcasts, its cheap to cast, and the cards with flashback I still care about not to mention the number of resources it can give me.

How has Arclight Phoenix been working for you? The body doesn't feel all that relevant in EDH and you're not using it for sac fodder or anything, which is usually where self recurring creatures shine. Is it primarily blocking?

Quote from Weebo »

How has Arclight Phoenix been working for you? The body doesn't feel all that relevant in EDH and you're not using it for sac fodder or anything, which is usually where self recurring creatures shine. Is it primarily blocking?

I primarily use it to block but this deck is REALLY good at bringing it back. I probably don't need it here to be totally honest but I think its just such a cool design that I wanted to play it lol. Its ability to threaten planeswalkers has actually been very relevant so far as I have seen a few decks that try to wrath into a planeswalker for a turn of free use. The random assorted draw / discard and mill effects have also been really good for it as I had a game the other day where I did a Brainstorm into Thought Scour and set up to rez him from a mill trigger which felt REALLY sweet.

Right now, I would say I am reasonably happy with it in the times I have seen it. I could probably go a bit deeper into draw + discard effects to make it even better and honestly discarding excess lands does need to happen to some degree in the mid to late game. I would say that so far I have been fairly happy with it but my testing is far from conclusive. I have only played something like 3-4 games with this deck so far but I think I have seen it twice and its been fairly good when you can avoid actually casting it.

That's fair. Pressuring walkers does seem like a good use of it if very meta dependent.

I'm likely to put something like this together soon but in my case it's mostly because of Bonus Round and Thousand-Year Storm. It's about time for my biannual "annoy the group by playing solitaire" spellslinger deck.

Quote from Weebo »

That's fair. Pressuring walkers does seem like a good use of it if very meta dependent.

I'm likely to put something like this together soon but in my case it's mostly because of Bonus Round and Thousand-Year Storm. It's about time for my biannual "annoy the group by playing solitaire" spellslinger deck.

I myself came back to this deck due to the new guilds of ravnica cards. My first iteration I was trying to push more value from those type of cards as well as the expensive enchantments that would duplicate cards but eventually I shifted more towards increasing the number of spells cast especially from effects like Future Sight because they trigger the things that care about spellcast more frequently rather than getting more value out of the cast themselves.

I think that direction is fine I just noticed that Future Sight gave me a really ridiculous amount of spellcasts in a turn rotation. Given all the cheap spells its easy to cast one from hand if you get stuck with lands on top or something expensive.

I think there are a lot of options on how to do this. I think I need to do more testing because there are sooooooooooooo many cool cantrips as well as cards to enable them.

Really interested in this deck. I've been playing around with a Jori-En deck for awhile now but never could get it where I wanted. This list is a huge help, especially since it looks like you ditched a lot of expensive cards for cards I already own! Gonna keep my eye on this...

How do you think this deck would perform if Niv-Mizzet 3.0 was at the helm? Iv'e toyed with the idea of "Cantrip Tribal", but I am a little scared to try it lol.

I honestly think Niv would give the deck too much attention. Nobody cares about Jori in my experience, which gives you plenty of time to vomit cantrips.

Quote from LikeACircus »

How do you think this deck would perform if Niv-Mizzet 3.0 was at the helm? Iv'e toyed with the idea of "Cantrip Tribal", but I am a little scared to try it lol.

I considered that myself at first but I think there are a few issues with that as well as different directions I would go with deckbuilding. Niv 3.0 has a big problem which is that its a 6 mana commander who screams answer me. Everyone should be after killing your commander and on top of that being 6 very color intensive mana makes it kind of hard to recast it much. Mana stones are a little harder to support as well being the very color intensive mana that Niv takes it means that you cant use things like Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Thran Dynamo to ramp into casting the commander either.

If you wan't to compare the commanders in a vacuum its true that Niv Mizzet is a lot more powerful but there is the question of how much slower you get to your commander and how much less often you probably stick your commander with Niv. If I were going the direction of Niv as a commander I would probably run a lot more free counter magic, flash options to cast the commander off of, and probably need to have a more interactive deck as a whole.

Quote from SafetyValve »

I honestly think Niv would give the deck too much attention. Nobody cares about Jori in my experience, which gives you plenty of time to vomit cantrips.

That has also been my experience with Jori En. I haven't played with Niv 3.0 but I think you are fairly accurate as if I ever see Niv 3.0 as the commander I am going to formulate every way of smashing them to death I can come up with.

I had a few thoughts and wanted to make a few changes to reflect.

• Fog Bank -> The Locust God I like fog bank but it doesn't really have much synergy with this deck and what its doing. Its a good defensive measure but the spot removal I have has been doing fairly well and I also feel like I shifted this deck to be a lot more proactive of late which makes for a non synergy defensive measure like fog bank feel a little more awkward. Locust God seems interesting in that a lot of our spells draw extra cards so it should give me some good tokens. Its a little slower Murmuring Mystic which triggers less frequently on my spellcast but more often naturally given my cards per turn drawn as well as my commander's triggered ability so I think it might actually make a similar number of tokens while being a little slower to cast and a little more robust vs removal.
• Gilded Lotus -> Sword of Feast and Famine I am not entirely sure where this is going to land but given both plays essentially cost five mana and sword has an immediate return of 5+ mana where as guilded is always 3. It has pros in that it might give me more mana in a turn than the lotus but it also is dependant on me connecting in a deck that isn't super creature focused. My commander not having any evasion does raise some questions but pro black / green is a really good evasion so mostly my thought here is I need to bring it in and test it. If I see it having problems then I can always revert or try something else out.
• Mission Briefing -> Force of Will I gave it some more thought and really it felt like I wasn't going to be happy paying UU to recast a 1 mana cantrip spell so Mission Briefing seemed a little awkward in this deck. Its probably still good with several of the answers but for now I am going to cut it and put it back into the maybe list. I like having some no mana emergency counterspells in the list and I own a Force of Will so I guess I might as well play it.
• Recurring Insight -> Karn's Temporal Sundering I think the power draw is a good effect but I wasn't happy tapping out to just draw heavy. I think that extra turns are realistically completely over powered and seem amazing here I am just trying to avoid packing a ton of them into my list and then recover / recasting them as its an extremely annoying tactic. Karn's is kind of cool in that its dirt cheap money wise and for one more mana it has a nonland boomerang effect that I think is well worth tagging onto the effect. My list isn't so fast that paying one more for Karn's over something like Temporal Manipulation seems like that big of a deal and my only misgiving between the two is if you are eating a counterspell then its relevant to have payed one less mana.

I guess these changes might be a small bump up in the mana cost of the deck. Some of these cards are coming in for my own testing and I think that Sword of Feast and Famine is going to vary in its mileage a lot based on the meta its played in with a deck like this that doesn't have natural evasion on the commander. Having a few emergency counterspells seems helpful though as I was so mana hungry for this deck that I was having a hard time in a lot of turns keeping mana left. I should be able to get some testing in with this deck this week so hopefully I can get around to testing some of these new cards given how much of this deck has turned over since I last played it.

I also realized my counts were off slightly in the above list and shifted the landbase down to 33 lands from 34 cutting a mountain. I really do need to do more testing as I might still be a bit high on how many lands I am running given the number of cheap cantrips I am running. I had miscounted my sorcery count to be one less than it was.

How does this deck perform in a meta full of boardwipes and creature removal? I did a bit of goldfishing and while I like how the deck plays out in general, it seems like finishing off opponents is tough if your creatures don't stick. Would you throw in a combo win, more control, or something else? Sentinel Tower?

Also, I understand several reasons not to include it in this deck, but not having Thousand-Year Storm in a deck full of cantrips just doesn't feel right to me. I'd try to cram it in just for the principle, even if it put a huge target on my head and/or got removed immediately.

Quote from thomeyis »

How does this deck perform in a meta full of boardwipes and creature removal? I did a bit of goldfishing and while I like how the deck plays out in general, it seems like finishing off opponents is tough if your creatures don't stick. Would you throw in a combo win, more control, or something else? Sentinel Tower?

Also, I understand several reasons not to include it in this deck, but not having Thousand-Year Storm in a deck full of cantrips just doesn't feel right to me. I'd try to cram it in just for the principle, even if it put a huge target on my head and/or got removed immediately.

I don't think the deck is terrible vs sweepers as a lot of the creatures do a lot of work without much commitment to the board. That said, this is a deck that wins via sticking creatures long enough to do things generally. Some simple fixes that come to mind for me would be to run Darksteel Plate and possibly some artifact tutors like Whir of Invention. It would be a small package that would probably help against a lot of sweepers and removal at the cost of being a little off theme. Sentinel Tower seems probably fine and I wan't to test it at some point but its not felt pressing enough that its made my list yet. I ordered a copy to have one on hand but I am not sure if it does enough yet to justify running as of yet. Its use as removal seems fine but its reach at killing players seems inferior to most of the Firebrand Archer effects. Depending on how many utility commanders and utilty creatures you see in your meta I could see reasons to push Sentinel Tower to a higher priority but I think a lot of these same thoughts might just lead you to running Keranos, God of Storms in your list. I think Keranos is also a fair pick and the only reason I am not running him is because 5 mana no immediate impact feels like more of a long game / control style of card where as I am trying to move a little faster and with more synergy in my list right now. Keranos, God of Storms would however possibly play well if you are worried about a long drawn out removal heavy game though.

EDIT: Going deeper on extra turns like Temporal Manipulation and Capture of Jingzhou would also be a great way to give you more reach against removal heavy metas. I kind of try to avoid going too deep in extra turns because I am aware of how unfun it can be when they start getting chained together excessively. Cards that enable flash such as Winding Canyons, Leyline of Anticipation, and Vedalken Orrery could also give you a leg up against sweepers and help towards when to pull the trigger on some of this.

Thousand-Year Storm I had it in an early build but I cut it because in several ways it felt like a worse Swarm Intelligence. The first instant / sorcery you cast is not copied, the second one is, and at the third spellcast you break even with Swarm Intelligence meaning its the 4th+ spellcast in a turn where you get the payoff that makes it more relevant. My other issue with this card is that it only counds previous instant / sorcery cards so if you cast a creature and then an instant sorcery you don't get to count the non instant / sorcery casts. It felt kind of demanding before you get payoff from it. Through getting more testing in I realized that the Future Sight effects were often cheaper to cast and if I untapped with those effects in play I often was having turns of casting the top 5 cards of my library which turned into really good card advantage in that I wasn't needing to play them myself. The other thing to mention about the Future Sight effects was that normally you encounter issues where you run into a land after playing a land but with so many cantrips its often that I had a cantrip in hand that let me push past that issue.

I got to play this deck for two games last night. I ended up winning both of them. The first game I managed to play Docent of Perfection and at the end of that turn rotation I flipped it and copied it with Cackling Counterpart. From there I Time Warped and then the turn after I overloaded Mizzix's Mastery for the game. Game two I played a bunch of threats who all got answered and finally stuck The Locust God who made something like 30 tokens in 3 turns for me. Firebrand Archer + Electrostatic Field + Cackling Counterpart copying Field got me a lot of reach and I went deep on Past in Flames over two turns to close it out with those enablers.

As of right now I don't have a lot I am thinking about changing. I will probably drop Time Warp though not because it wasn't good but honestly there were a lot of feels bad experiences when I used it. If I wanted to go more competitive I would probably run more of them but for now I would rather make my playgroup less upset with me so I think for now I will go down to just Karn's Temporal Sundering. Rite of Replication was a little so so but I want to test it a little further. I think I am going to cut Mystical Tutor as crazy as that sounds because really the only viable things it tutors are extra turns or Cyclonic Rift and I don't like being more annoying on that front. Its card disadvantage and I just don't feel like I have the selection in this deck that I want to run it right now.

I am going to mull a few things over and get back on changes later but the deck is doing very well right now. I still think possibly cutting into the lands a little further for more cheap spells might happen but I need to look at counts a bit more first.

Really cool deck idea! Did you consider using cards such as High Tide and some red rituals to increase the ability to chain spells on a round or your available mana is more than enough?

Quote from vandertroll »

Really cool deck idea! Did you consider using cards such as High Tide and some red rituals to increase the ability to chain spells on a round or your available mana is more than enough?

Its something I have considered a few times but ultimately I decided to run a few of the equipment to see how they perform. Having extra mana every turn seems like it might pay out more than having one big turn but it depends on how you want to work and how quickly you are losing the enablers for the spellcasting. I think its a card I would be totally willing to test at some point but I think there is also a question of how many things can you pull off casting in a turn to make it viable. The fact that it doesn't draw a card itself and wants to create a single turn where you cast a bunch of things makes me think that you would want to be casting an enabler and following it up with several cards or possibly going deep on something like Past in Flames.

I am also not really sure how much I want or need the emergency counterspells. I have some concern that I won't have them in hand when I need them or that I draw them and they are something that sits in my hand for several turns without being cast. I will keep playing them for now but its something I need to watch a bit more. If I played against more opposing combo decks its something I would probably feel a bit stronger about them.

So I'm thinking about trying this build with Adeliz, the Cinder Wind as the commander. Jori-En is great but lacks a win condition. Adeliz trades draw for a reliable wincon, and I feel like is still pretty low threat?

Quote from SafetyValve »

So I'm thinking about trying this build with Adeliz, the Cinder Wind as the commander. Jori-En is great but lacks a win condition. Adeliz trades draw for a reliable wincon, and I feel like is still pretty low threat?

Thats probably fine. I don't know to what extent you might want to change the list though if you want to play it as a voltron commander or just do some damage with your commander. I have personally really liked the extra draw from Jori En. Lots of the payoff for casting spells are my wincons and I really have not had issues closing games out with my build. If you do change the commander though you should probably question how much focus you want on killing with the commander and how much damage and token making you want to do.

This weekend I picked up a 3 player game and had the fun of Possibility Storm shortly off of curve which stuck all game. It was incredible to cast a 1 mana instant on my opponents turns and pick up an extra draw on each of their turns that I had an instant with Jori En. Possibility Storm continues to over perform for me and it has been more or less incredible every time I have stuck it for any amount of time. The fact that I cast spells twice even with random results doubles the spellcasts / mana I spend. I managed to get and flip a Primal Amulet / Primal Wellspring with the Possibility Storm in play and start casting spells through the storm due to the Primal Wellspring copying them.

Primal Amulet has been better than I had suspected. I had my doubts due to the cost reduction not being very good but the fact that when I flip it I get mana ramp and free resources its really been better than I had expected. I have half a mind to consider a Whir of Invention package again given that I have liked Primal Amulet so much.

I played another game with the deck last night and won with it. The deck is looking really good right now. I think for now I am going to work on cutting all of the extra turns. I totally acknowledge that they are amazing but the feels bad is kind of high for them every time I cast them which leads me to often not cast them if I have a halfway decent setup. The deck is winning a lot for me right now and if I felt like I needed a bump in the deck's performance I would run them and or maybe go further into running them. For now though I think I want to cut back on them.

I managed to spin up and flip an early Primal Amulet last night. Magus of the Future gave me a bunch of extra draw and reach. I managed to stick and use it for several turns which I spun up around turn turn and keep all game. The Locust God and 2x cast Treasure Cruise to make a heap of blockers to defend for me. My opponents killed and grave hated that out before I could untap with it. The next turn I played Niv-Mizzet, Parun and used a few spells to burn down a bunch of tokens and evasive creatures.

The game ended when I played Guttersnipe, Electrostatic Field, and Firebrand Archer in a turn. Guttersnipe got killed immediately and then I cast 2x copies of Cackling Counterpart on Electrostatic Field thanks to Primal Wellspring and chained a bunch of spells until my opponents died.

I will probably drum up a few changes coming up and cut the extra turns from the list. Like I said, this is more because they are sort of feel bad for me. I think they are very good for the deck but I don't enjoy playing them.

I had initially built an UR (non infitie combo) spellslinger deck with Niv Mizzet, Parun as my commander, but After reading this topic i decided to drop in Jori En, Ruin Diver i had laying around as the number one for yesterdays games. In the same effort i dropped the mana curve while maintaining my land count a little high to Ensure my wincon's come online in an ordinary fashion.

I have to say, thank you for the idea! Jori En, Ruin Diver provides so much value over the course of the game, drawing me tons of cards all while staying under the radar long enough for the table to realize it's too late, slinging multiple spells and a turn and refueling every time.
Besides this, i can still swap my commander for either Niv Mizzet, Parun or The Locust, making this a deck of many faces.

From the 4 games we played (3 and 4 player tables) i won 3 with the following list in a meta of: Marchesa, the black rose, Edgar Markov, Kaalia of the Vast, Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Animar, Soul of Elements and Aminatou, the Fateshifter !



I've had a lot of fun with it!
MVP's were Jori En, Ruin Diver herself, both Niv's, any token producer or pinger in general and the win-conditions, especially: Thousand-Year Storm, Primal Amulet, Khorvath's Fury and Expansion // Explosion. The combinations of these only multiplies their strengths. Great cards.
Honorable mention: The Locust God together with Skullclamp is just so nasty!

I really didn't like the looting effects in this deck (or in EDH/Commander in general). What is your oppinion on Faithless Looting and Frantic Search. Discarding feels bad most of the time unless i'm sure i can reuse the spell i ditch.

Quote from SmauG »

I had initially built an UR (non infitie combo) spellslinger deck with Niv Mizzet, Parun as my commander, but After reading this topic i decided to drop in Jori En, Ruin Diver i had laying around as the number one for yesterdays games. In the same effort i dropped the mana curve while maintaining my land count a little high to Ensure my wincon's come online in an ordinary fashion.

I have to say, thank you for the idea! Jori En, Ruin Diver provides so much value over the course of the game, drawing me tons of cards all while staying under the radar long enough for the table to realize it's too late, slinging multiple spells and a turn and refueling every time.
Besides this, i can still swap my commander for either Niv Mizzet, Parun or The Locust, making this a deck of many faces.

From the 4 games we played (3 and 4 player tables) i won 3 with the following list in a meta of: Marchesa, the black rose, Edgar Markov, Kaalia of the Vast, Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Animar, Soul of Elements and Aminatou, the Fateshifter !

ISBPathfinder's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Commander 1 Jori En, Ruin Diver 12 Island 7 Mountain 1 Command Tower 1 Scalding Tarn 1 Polluted Delta 1 Flooded Strand 1 Wooded Foothills 1 Arid Mesa 1 Seat of the Synod 1 Great Furnace 1 Lonely Sandbar 1 Forgotten Cave 1 Steam Vents 1 Shivan Reef 1 Cascade Bluffs 1 Sulfur Falls 1 Temple of Epiphany 1 Izzet Boilerworks 1 Riptide Laboratory 1 Reliquary Tower 1 Terrain Generator Creatures 1 Snapcaster Mage 1 Baral, Chief of Compliance 1 Goblin Electromancer 1 Young Pyromancer 1 Firebrand Archer 1 Electrostatic Field 1 Chasm Skulker 1 Guttersnipe 1 Trinket Mage 1 Murmuring Mystic 1 Talrand, Sky Summoner 1 Docent of Perfection 1 Psychosis Crawler 1 Arjun, The Shifting Flame 1 Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind 1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun 1 The Locust God	Sorcery 1 Faithless Looting 1 Preordain 1 Ponder 1 Serum Visions 1 Past in Flames 1 Khorvath's Fury 1 Brass's Bounty Instant 1 Brainstorm 1 Opt 1 Lightning Bolt 1 Lightning Strike 1 Arcane Denial 1 Radical Idea 1 Expansion // Explosion 1 Mission Briefing 1 Chaos Warp 1 Wizard's Lightning 1 Electrolyze 1 Frantic Search 1 Dream Fracture 1 Comet Storm 1 Stroke of Genius 1 Chemister's Insight 1 Fateful Showdown 1 Commit // Memory 1 Cryptic Command 1 Mystic Confluence 1 Spell Swindle 1 Cyclonic Rift	Artifact 1 Elixir of Immortality 1 Skullclamp 1 Expedition Map 1 Sky Diamond 1 Fire Diamond 1 Coldsteel Heart 1 Izzet Signet 1 Primal Amulet 1 Gilded Lotus Enchantment 1 Rhystic Study 1 Propaganda 1 Ever-Watching Threshold 1 Leyline of Anticipation 1 Mindmoil 1 Thousand-Year Storm

I've had a lot of fun with it!
MVP's were Jori En, Ruin Diver herself, both Niv's, any token producer or pinger in general and the win-conditions, especially: Thousand-Year Storm, Primal Amulet, Khorvath's Fury and Expansion // Explosion. The combinations of these only multiplies their strengths. Great cards.
Honorable mention: The Locust God together with Skullclamp is just so nasty!

I really didn't like the looting effects in this deck (or in EDH/Commander in general). What is your oppinion on Faithless Looting and Frantic Search. Discarding feels bad most of the time unless i'm sure i can reuse the spell i ditch.

Looks fun. I would suggest in general still pulling the curve down a bit more yet and if you do that I think the delve draw cards would be a strong addition. As it is right now the cost reducers pull a little more work in your current list but I would try to bolster your 1-2 mana spells which I think will speed it up a bit and let you hit the gas when you play a spell enabler effect more.

DECK CHANGES:

• Unsubstantiate -> Echoing Truth I like the concept of Unsubstantiate but I found it to be a little more awkward in execution than I would like. I find that its hard for me to have it up as a Remand effect very often and the fact that it only bounces creatures can make it a little awkward. I like the potential to interact with tokens with Echoing Truth (unless they have a sac outlet) and the fact that it can bounce nonland permanents makes it feel a little more versatile for me.
• Time Warp -> Savor the Moment trying to be less annoying to my playgroup. I like that Savor the Moment draws me another card, gives sort of haste, lets me play another land, but doesn't stack attacks. Reducing the cost lets me play it a bit sooner with most of the upsides of what I want from it and later on it doesn't break the game in half as bad. It seems like it should be worth testing out at the least.
• Karn's Temporal Sundering -> Firemind's Research trying to trim back my extra turns. The enchantment isn't crazy but what I like about it is the versatility and its cheap casting cost. Paying two for either effect does seem a little expensive but I suspect for the removal it should still be fairly good and in a pinch the draw could be useful. I want to test the card out at least. The ability to chain spells has been fairly good for this deck so far.
• Dowsing Dagger -> Walking Atlas the draw has been good enough in this deck thus far. I seem to often get a bit bottlenecked on lands in my hand though.

I plan to do a bit more testing with the other equipment. I don't really have a good conclusion thus far on them. I also am considering if I want to cut one of the one drop artifact shatter cards as they have felt a little questionable of late. I can think of a few times now where I have drawn into multiple artifact shatters and not really needed them. I would probably still keep one of them but I have been fairly happy with the addition of Abrade so far and the versatility of that card over the option to try to value shatter.

Thanks for the reply! The deck was fun enough to play to warant tweaking further!

On the topic of Unsubstantiate like effects, the card is very good and i have been considering and Into the Roil and Blink of an Eye to keep on theme. At one time i had Venser, Shaper Savant in the deck as it functions so well with the wizards toolbox side of my deck as repeatable interaction. In the end it got cut for something more straightforward and cheaper.

As to your last comment about shatter effects.
I had my eyes on Molten Frame and Smash as they both serve double purpose in the deck.


I'd still like to know how you feel about the looting effects. Are they really worth it? I've had hands where i wanted the draw, but really didn't want to discard

Quote from SmauG »

Thanks for the reply! The deck was fun enough to play to warant tweaking further!

On the topic of Unsubstantiate like effects, the card is very good and i have been considering and Into the Roil and Blink of an Eye to keep on theme. At one time i had Venser, Shaper Savant in the deck as it functions so well with the wizards toolbox side of my deck as repeatable interaction. In the end it got cut for something more straightforward and cheaper.

As to your last comment about shatter effects.
I had my eyes on Molten Frame and Smash as they both serve double purpose in the deck.


I'd still like to know how you feel about the looting effects. Are they really worth it? I've had hands where i wanted the draw, but really didn't want to discard

I also really enjoy how Venser, Shaper Savant plays but ultimately he fits better in a draw go style of deck. The fact that Unsubstantiate is only able to bounce creatures if it doesn't hit a spell on the stack has been problematic for me which is part of why I did the change I did. I think additional bounce disruption can still be very strong as it breaks up important interactions, combos, and attacks potentially. This said, I have on occasion run into issues where I hit too much disruption effects and not enough draw. Its also important to have enough spells for the spellcast enable effects.

Shatter effects - I am going to let them ride for now but I more just wanted to mention I am keeping an eye on them. Its possible I might consider just shifting one to a bounce effect for a more diverse interaction / tempo stall.

Looting - Frantic Search has been fantastic essentially every time I have cast it thus far. I played it this weekend on turn 4 after playing my commander turn 3 and managed to bin Arclight Phoenix and Pact of Negation and follow that up with rezing the Phoenix. I can think of a few other times where I cast it with Primal Wellspring or untapped the wellspring with it which have been really sweet. I have often found times where I end up drawing multiple interaction cards that I don't need in a situation or too many lands so I have found the looting to be really good so far. I might end up bringing Izzet Charm back into the list at some point.

I think I cut a land in my paper list for Chart a Course as well. I will see if I can verify and update the list but I thought I would mention it for now.

Pushing a few more changes I wanted to do. I had some time to sit on a few of these ideas and they just seem like I will be making some changes so I am hesitant to keep sitting and waiting on them.

• Rite of Replication -> Wayfarer's Bauble really, I just don't see a situation where I plan to kick rite which has made it a little more awkward. I keep telling myself that it will be more useful than Cackling Counterpart in that it can target opponents creatures but I keep targeting my own so far. The only thing I can think of where I would prefer Rite would be if I drew one of these early game and there was some sort of Solemn Simulacrum or something for me to target. I like the option of wayfarer's due to its cheap cost to cast and I can keep up mana as optional instant casts or I can pop it. Its also nice in opening hands in that I have time to play and pop it before my commander which might enable me to turn 3 cast a cantrip behind my commander. Plus, ramping land is fairly safe since I don't really play against MLD.
• Pact of Negation -> Izzet Charm I think the pact cost is a little steep. I have favored Force of Will because my draw power has been fairly good and the deck is SUPER blue heavy but that doesn't seem to extend to Pact as well. I like the versatility of Izzet Charm and I wanted to come back and test it again. I think I might have had it in a very early build but I have been enjoying the filter effects a bit more of late. Its versatility seems handy to return to.
• 1 Island -> Chart a Course I checked and I had in fact cut a land for chart. The lands I need in this deck seem to be less because of the abundance of draw and filter.
• Vandalblast -> Chain of Vapor I found the mass artifact shatters to not be as important so far in my testing here. This deck can move very fast and value shatters just haven't seemed to be as important as having relivant interaction that functions at the right time. I like the idea of Chain of Vapor due to how versatile its targeting is and the curve of this deck is mostly solid so I am not too worried about someone throwing it back at me.

I guess that's all I have for now. The deck has been SUPER solid so far. I haven't gotten to test it yet since my last changes due to some winter weather but I am excited to have less extra turns just due to the general feels bad vibe I was getting from them.

Curiosity seems like it would be really good with your pingers. Maybe run additional similar cards for redundancy as well.

Also Forbid, seems like you might have enough cards to fuel that.