Yes. I took a lead from Benjameenbear's list. I realized that while I could play out many creatures, sometimes my board would get over developed compared to opponent's. Tons of cheap cantrip creatures, but no creatures in the 'yard to get out some respectable 4/4's. Sacrifice outlets seemed like the natural answer. My deck runs a ton of 2 and 3 drops I would rather have in the 'yard than on the board as 1/1s and such.
Also, I've been pairing up sac. outlets with other relevant abilities. I just traded a Ashnod's Altar for altar of dementia for instance. (I previously accidentally called this Phyrexian altar in a previous post.) I wanted the redundancy of another ramp card vs. the less useful mill card.
The thing is, I only really consider soldevie adnate and Ashnod's altar as my true sac. outlets, as that is mainly what they are used for. The other cards are in for other reasons mostly, but having them do double duty as potential sac. outlets only makes them that much stronger.
I've been considering Grafted wargear as another sac. outlet. This control deck can be really slow to get the damage rolling. Wargear makes all of my 1/1's more significant, and provides less flexible sac. outlet. It just buffs a tiny creature until the god comes out. Then use it to sac. the cards you need into the graveyard. (Example: You have Mulldrifter and the god out. Attach wargear to drifter, get in for 5, attach wargear to the next non-token creature you wish to "externalize.") Or you need to remove a blocker so you can swing in. Attach it to Chupacabra, then attach it to something else. Externalize chupacabra to remove blocker, get in for mucho damage. There are sometimes when commander damage becomes relevant in my deck too. This makes swinging in with the god a 3 turn game ending proposition instead of 5 turns of damage.
The possibility of using a discard creature, sac. it, "externalize" it for 2 discard from an opponent is nasty too. I've done that before late game when opponents are low on cards and crushed their dreams of winning
Not much I can really add to that, other than I remember asking about the Grafted Wargear a while back on your thread - and now that you explain it, seems like a neat tech choice. It doesn't look like much at first glance but after the initial 3 mana investment, it really is just a buff or a sorcery speed sac outlet. Especially since it jumps Commander damage from a 5 turn clock to 3. I'll stick with Instant-speed ones for now, but still a nice card. I cannot emphasize the importance of Instant Speed enough - Even if Altar of Dementia is a "meh" mill card, I'd play it over the Wargear on the basis I can use it as a form of protection. The equipment doesn't provide that, and if someone manages to hit The Scarab God with Darksteel Mutation, Song of the Dryads, or Imprisoned in the Moon... You're in for some bad times. To say nothing if anyone manages to take control of it.
If this wasn't a problem before, the popularity of the 2018 Enchantress Precon in my area has made it one. Every card I listed can be in Enchantress decks.
Mind Stone -> Soldevi Adnate (Creature based ramp vs. artifact. Creature is better) Mausoleum Wanderer -> Spiketail Drakeling (Feels like most of what I lose to isn't Instant or Sorcery, so Wanderer hasn't performed as well recently). Lim-Dul's Vault -> Rune-Scarred Demon (I've never been too keen on Vault, it was mostly a budget option. With the added Discard, I should be able to just pitch RSD at minimum).
I forgot that your reason for sac. outlets is to protect your commander from such types of "removal". I've only been looking at them as a convenient way to put creatures into the 'yard when I want them there. It would make sense that you want that instant speed sac. outlet. Glad my meta hasn't wizened up to these really good removal cards yet!
Have to bring up Grafted Wargear again because it's actually better than either of us expected. The errata for wargear has changed the card to "when this becomes unattached from a permanent, sacrifice that permanent." So, if your opponents make the god with wargear on it into something besides a creature, wargear falls off, you sac. the god, it goes back into your hand at the endstep. It turns Imprisoned in the moon and Song of the Dryads into over costed bounce spells Against darksteel mutation, just attach the wargear to a different creature on your turn to sac. the god. The same actually goes for control magic type effects too. You still control the equipment, so on your next turn your force your opponent to sac. the god.
I understand this may still not be enough to put it over the edge. The more I look at it, the better it gets though. I think wargear still can't dodge Path to exile type effects though, so instant speed sac. outlets are still superior to it in that way.
As to Venser vs. fatespinner I'd go with fatespinner. Though I suspect that both are probably worth making room for. I've seen fatespinner "win the game" on when played on turn 3 by an opponent. If an opponent can't answer it soon enough, you will win. If they put it into the 'yard through creature destruction, I'd probably get the god out asap and recur him asap. This guy is a beast.
As foretold or phantasmal image both look like good cards to take out in place of these.
Also, burnished hart looks too slow. Thran Dynamo or Worn Powerstone would probably be better. These cards will lead you into playing 2 spells faster than burnished hart. You may need to consider a few more dual-colored lands as well, even if a couple enter tapped. You can usually play a tapped land turn one with no detriment. With all of the cheap creatures, you'll find a spot to drop a tapped land later in the early game too. If you're looking to upgrade, I'd say your mana base could use a little work. Morphic Pool was just printed in battlebond and is cheap $ for what it does. Reflecting pool is a nice one once you get a couple more dual-colored lands. Fetchlands would be good too.
Have to bring up Grafted Wargear again because it's actually better than either of us expected. The errata for wargear has changed the card to "when this becomes unattached from a permanent, sacrifice that permanent." So, if your opponents make the god with wargear on it into something besides a creature, wargear falls off, you sac. the god, it goes back into your hand at the endstep. It turns Imprisoned in the moon and Song of the Dryads into over costed bounce spells Against darksteel mutation, just attach the wargear to a different creature on your turn to sac. the god. The same actually goes for control magic type effects too. You still control the equipment, so on your next turn your force your opponent to sac. the god.
I understand this may still not be enough to put it over the edge. The more I look at it, the better it gets though. I think wargear still can't dodge Path to exile type effects though, so instant speed sac. outlets are still superior to it in that way.
Was already aware of this interaction. It's an interesting tech choice regardless, and one I need to remind myself of when I get around to building that Valduk, Keeper of the Flame list finally.
As to Venser vs. fatespinner I'd go with fatespinner. Though I suspect that both are probably worth making room for. I've seen fatespinner "win the game" on when played on turn 3 by an opponent. If an opponent can't answer it soon enough, you will win. If they put it into the 'yard through creature destruction, I'd probably get the god out asap and recur him asap. This guy is a beast.
As foretold or phantasmal image both look like good cards to take out in place of these.
Also, burnished hart looks too slow. Thran Dynamo or Worn Powerstone would probably be better. These cards will lead you into playing 2 spells faster than burnished hart. You may need to consider a few more dual-colored lands as well, even if a couple enter tapped. You can usually play a tapped land turn one with no detriment. With all of the cheap creatures, you'll find a spot to drop a tapped land later in the early game too. If you're looking to upgrade, I'd say your mana base could use a little work. Morphic Pool was just printed in battlebond and is cheap $ for what it does. Reflecting pool is a nice one once you get a couple more dual-colored lands. Fetchlands would be good too.
Burnished Hart hasn't steered me wrong, yet. It is slower than either of those, yes, but I prize colored mana above colorless. As a longtime Grixis player, I've been screwed my fair share.
The manabase is something I haven't had any problems with yet, but I was already planning on picking up Morphic Pool and Sunken Ruins, at least. I'm not interested in playing Fetchlands here, because I don't intend to fully optimize the deck - I want an engine of war, hard to deal with, that takes over the game. As I mentioned on your deck, and I need to add to the first post here, I added [Focused] because I wanted a good deck - but able to play with both Optimized lists (the type that might typically have fetches), and Casual lists.
Also, if I had to buy fetches, I'd rather do it for a 3 color deck. It's easy enough to fix in 2 without them, even if they're nice to have.
Hello. Long time no post as I haven't been playing any commander at all lately. Been on Arena a whole bunch instead. However, nice addition for this deck! Don't know if Phyrexian Tower has been mentioned yet. If not, this is exactly the sac. outlet we've been looking for. A bit of extra ramp possibly, graveyard filler, and protection against "gain control of" effects late game. It's getting a reprint! So that $50 price tag will be dropping soon. Could be a nice time to pick up a copy.
Yeah, I've been hooked on Arena too. It's a ton of fun and it's an actually enjoyable way to play the 60 card format again.
My brother and I are actually combining some of our excess cards together and trading them in for a box of Ultimate Masters with Box Topper. We're hoping that we'll pull either a foil Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated and then trade that card in for another box, haha. But seriously, the quality of cards in ultimate Masters is too good.
I'm not dead. This thread is getting an update when I have time - still need to pick up more cards (the Phyrexian Tower reprint being a godsend) and restructure the deck. Decided to give up on being tricky with the Discard theme, going for full reanimator now with just a smattering of incidental mill for variety.
Hello Grimoire,
Quite glad you're not dead! I've finally sunk my teeth back into the deck with some interesting ideas. I posted on my own thread recently, but the deck has since evolved, ever yearning for that competitive title.
First of all, I have to mention Awaken the erstwhile. This card is ridiculous, whimsical, powerful, and hopefully not too annoying for our opponents. This looks like a decent self-contained wincon when paired with the God. As long as we have the God out when this is played, we should stand a decent chance of winning.
Mirror-Mad Phantasm - Scarab God it EoT, activate the ability, mill your entire library (as the token won't be in the library). Untap, upkeep Scarab God Laboratory Maniac, draw, win.
While this is an instant win combo, the reason I'm writing is Mirror-Mad Phantasm's ability. Even without being a combo, we can pay two mana to mill a random, but usually large, portion of the deck. Also, the ability is repeatable instantly if mirror-mad isn't a token.
I'm going to upgrade my own deck to mostly full on combo-centric mentioned above. Since I now own:
I can see this combo coming together rather quickly. My reasoning is that if my playgroup hates the consistent combo too much, I can just substitute out Laborartory Maniac with a non-combo card.
Anyway, wanted to mention these cards as they are both too silly, powerful and deck specific too pass up.
Have to bring up Grafted Wargear again because it's actually better than either of us expected. The errata for wargear has changed the card to "when this becomes unattached from a permanent, sacrifice that permanent." So, if your opponents make the god with wargear on it into something besides a creature, wargear falls off, you sac. the god, it goes back into your hand at the endstep. It turns Imprisoned in the moon and Song of the Dryads into over costed bounce spells Against darksteel mutation, just attach the wargear to a different creature on your turn to sac. the god. The same actually goes for control magic type effects too. You still control the equipment, so on your next turn your force your opponent to sac. the god.
I understand this may still not be enough to put it over the edge. The more I look at it, the better it gets though. I think wargear still can't dodge Path to exile type effects though, so instant speed sac. outlets are still superior to it in that way.
In addition to running unconditional removal/bounce, I run overburden which also lets you play a creature to bounce you commander land (which deals with song and imprisoned) and sweepers to get around indestructible (like toxic deluge) which deals with mutation.
For theft effects you can either kill the commander, steal it back (Gilded Drake), or copy it.
Just wanted to share that I revamped my list a ton since I last played, took a bunch of cues from your list (more counters and discard, less mill) and it paid huge dividends over the past weekend. Some of the all-stars were Diluvian Primordial, Pull from Tomorrow, Disdainful Stroke, and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. Mikaeus in particular was the perfect fit here because he didn't do any lame infinite combos, but provided nearly infinite value with all of the ETB triggers that naturally occur in this deck.
Oddly enough, Spellseeker rotted in my hand in both games because I was so far ahead the whole time that I didn't need to tutor for anything specific. It's probably still plenty good, just never needed it. I even went so far as to target an opponent's Urban Evolution over their Demonic Tutor with a Diluvian trigger because I wanted the larger quantity of cards over the single specific card.
Also, I've been pairing up sac. outlets with other relevant abilities. I just traded a Ashnod's Altar for altar of dementia for instance. (I previously accidentally called this Phyrexian altar in a previous post.) I wanted the redundancy of another ramp card vs. the less useful mill card.
I believe the sac. package I run is
The thing is, I only really consider soldevie adnate and Ashnod's altar as my true sac. outlets, as that is mainly what they are used for. The other cards are in for other reasons mostly, but having them do double duty as potential sac. outlets only makes them that much stronger.
I've been considering Grafted wargear as another sac. outlet. This control deck can be really slow to get the damage rolling. Wargear makes all of my 1/1's more significant, and provides less flexible sac. outlet. It just buffs a tiny creature until the god comes out. Then use it to sac. the cards you need into the graveyard. (Example: You have Mulldrifter and the god out. Attach wargear to drifter, get in for 5, attach wargear to the next non-token creature you wish to "externalize.") Or you need to remove a blocker so you can swing in. Attach it to Chupacabra, then attach it to something else. Externalize chupacabra to remove blocker, get in for mucho damage. There are sometimes when commander damage becomes relevant in my deck too. This makes swinging in with the god a 3 turn game ending proposition instead of 5 turns of damage.
The possibility of using a discard creature, sac. it, "externalize" it for 2 discard from an opponent is nasty too. I've done that before late game when opponents are low on cards and crushed their dreams of winning
Sac. outlets, useful and fun!
If this wasn't a problem before, the popularity of the 2018 Enchantress Precon in my area has made it one. Every card I listed can be in Enchantress decks.
Just placed an order for Soldevi Adnate, Spiketail Drakeling, Fatespinner, Venser, Shaper Savant, and a pair of Foil Rune-Scarred Demon (because they were damn cheap, why not). Currently considering the following changes:
Mind Stone -> Soldevi Adnate (Creature based ramp vs. artifact. Creature is better)
Mausoleum Wanderer -> Spiketail Drakeling (Feels like most of what I lose to isn't Instant or Sorcery, so Wanderer hasn't performed as well recently).
Lim-Dul's Vault -> Rune-Scarred Demon (I've never been too keen on Vault, it was mostly a budget option. With the added Discard, I should be able to just pitch RSD at minimum).
Not sure where to slip in Venser or Fatespinner yet, but I am eyeing the As Foretold and Phantasmal Image.
I understand this may still not be enough to put it over the edge. The more I look at it, the better it gets though. I think wargear still can't dodge Path to exile type effects though, so instant speed sac. outlets are still superior to it in that way.
As foretold or phantasmal image both look like good cards to take out in place of these.
Also, burnished hart looks too slow. Thran Dynamo or Worn Powerstone would probably be better. These cards will lead you into playing 2 spells faster than burnished hart. You may need to consider a few more dual-colored lands as well, even if a couple enter tapped. You can usually play a tapped land turn one with no detriment. With all of the cheap creatures, you'll find a spot to drop a tapped land later in the early game too. If you're looking to upgrade, I'd say your mana base could use a little work. Morphic Pool was just printed in battlebond and is cheap $ for what it does. Reflecting pool is a nice one once you get a couple more dual-colored lands. Fetchlands would be good too.
Was already aware of this interaction. It's an interesting tech choice regardless, and one I need to remind myself of when I get around to building that Valduk, Keeper of the Flame list finally.
Decided to remove the As Foretold and Phantasmal Image for now for those two.
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
2 Mind Stone
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 As Foretold
2 Soldevi Adnate
3 Spiketail Drakeling
3 Fatespinner
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
Burnished Hart hasn't steered me wrong, yet. It is slower than either of those, yes, but I prize colored mana above colorless. As a longtime Grixis player, I've been screwed my fair share.
The manabase is something I haven't had any problems with yet, but I was already planning on picking up Morphic Pool and Sunken Ruins, at least. I'm not interested in playing Fetchlands here, because I don't intend to fully optimize the deck - I want an engine of war, hard to deal with, that takes over the game. As I mentioned on your deck, and I need to add to the first post here, I added [Focused] because I wanted a good deck - but able to play with both Optimized lists (the type that might typically have fetches), and Casual lists.
Also, if I had to buy fetches, I'd rather do it for a 3 color deck. It's easy enough to fix in 2 without them, even if they're nice to have.
My brother and I are actually combining some of our excess cards together and trading them in for a box of Ultimate Masters with Box Topper. We're hoping that we'll pull either a foil Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated and then trade that card in for another box, haha. But seriously, the quality of cards in ultimate Masters is too good.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Also been playing Arena, and MTGO recently.
Quite glad you're not dead! I've finally sunk my teeth back into the deck with some interesting ideas. I posted on my own thread recently, but the deck has since evolved, ever yearning for that competitive title.
First of all, I have to mention Awaken the erstwhile. This card is ridiculous, whimsical, powerful, and hopefully not too annoying for our opponents. This looks like a decent self-contained wincon when paired with the God. As long as we have the God out when this is played, we should stand a decent chance of winning.
Been looking back on some previous threads to find Phrox's suggestion of Mirror-Mad Phantasm and Laboratory Maniac combo. They said
While this is an instant win combo, the reason I'm writing is Mirror-Mad Phantasm's ability. Even without being a combo, we can pay two mana to mill a random, but usually large, portion of the deck. Also, the ability is repeatable instantly if mirror-mad isn't a token.
I'm going to upgrade my own deck to mostly full on combo-centric mentioned above. Since I now own:
I can see this combo coming together rather quickly. My reasoning is that if my playgroup hates the consistent combo too much, I can just substitute out Laborartory Maniac with a non-combo card.
Anyway, wanted to mention these cards as they are both too silly, powerful and deck specific too pass up.
In addition to running unconditional removal/bounce, I run overburden which also lets you play a creature to bounce you commander land (which deals with song and imprisoned) and sweepers to get around indestructible (like toxic deluge) which deals with mutation.
For theft effects you can either kill the commander, steal it back (Gilded Drake), or copy it.
Oddly enough, Spellseeker rotted in my hand in both games because I was so far ahead the whole time that I didn't need to tutor for anything specific. It's probably still plenty good, just never needed it. I even went so far as to target an opponent's Urban Evolution over their Demonic Tutor with a Diluvian trigger because I wanted the larger quantity of cards over the single specific card.
One thing that would've come in handy was a creature board-wipe. Either Kagemaro, First to Suffer, Massacre Wurm, or Demon of Dark Schemes would have done a lot.
EDIT: Oh, and a big shout-out to the first card I ever won anything with: Gilded Drake. Still doing it well after all these years.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani