One of the things I try to do whenever I make a reanimator deck is focus on reanimating things from my opponents more than my own. It generally leads to fewer blowouts from mass grave removal, and once your group sees a reanimator general, they will arbitrarily try to attack your yard, even if you don't plan to use it much.
Consuming Aberration: A pet card of mind, and one that for five mana, I never want to cast in this deck. Phenax, God of Deception: Same problem ^^. Basically a 5-mana do nothing spell most of the times I've drawn it. Both compete with simply casting my General, and Scarab God is always the better choice.
I'm surprised by this, and I bought a copy of each of these specifically for this deck. Maybe it's because my local meta is heavily green-based, and very "fair", but it seems like filling up someone else's graveyard has a higher chance of yielding a great reanimation target. I'm not saying that either of them is better than casting Scarab God, but at some point I would think that either one would provide some value from the opposition.
One of the things I try to do whenever I make a reanimator deck is focus on reanimating things from my opponents more than my own. It generally leads to fewer blowouts from mass grave removal, and once your group sees a reanimator general, they will arbitrarily try to attack your yard, even if you don't plan to use it much.
Consuming Aberration: A pet card of mind, and one that for five mana, I never want to cast in this deck. Phenax, God of Deception: Same problem ^^. Basically a 5-mana do nothing spell most of the times I've drawn it. Both compete with simply casting my General, and Scarab God is always the better choice.
I'm surprised by this, and I bought a copy of each of these specifically for this deck. Maybe it's because my local meta is heavily green-based, and very "fair", but it seems like filling up someone else's graveyard has a higher chance of yielding a great reanimation target. I'm not saying that either of them is better than casting Scarab God, but at some point I would think that either one would provide some value from the opposition.
Some things I've learned in my first few rounds of games:
I only need to Eternalize 2-3 creatures before the table feels pressure
While the deck is technically reanimator, it's focused on what is stapled to the Commander. People exiling my graveyard of utility dorks hasn't hurt me too much when I can in turn steal Grave Titan from another player.
The only mass grave removal that has really hurt the deck is effects like Rest In Peace, Leyline of the Void, or something like Silent Gravestone. One-shot effects don't hurt as bad when I already want to push into the mid-late game.
It might be because Consuming Aberration and Phenax are at odds with how interactive I wanted to play the deck. If I'm tapping out 5 mana, it needs to do something or present an imminent threat. Scarab God does that (I can always Eternalize next turn, or with mana left open). Mill isn't the greatest win condition and while I do have many cheaper spells, Aberration tends to just be a big dumb beater and gets chumped to hell and back. I have considered trying to put something like a Wonder in the deck, now and again. Their problem may simply be that my meta doesn't have many opportunities for their value to shine. Wipes are a constant, so I'll never have too much power for Phenax (and Scarab God already helps to break stalls w/scry + drain).
I definitely agree on using my opponent's resources - UB is fantastic for that. But I've been favoring effects like Hedron Crab, Manic Scribe, Altar of the Brood, Altar of Dementia, or Psychic Corrosion. My only real problem with cards like Symbiont and Horror are their cmc, because a goal of the deck was to keep the cmc low unless it had sufficient impact. Anything cheap that helps the deck chug along is great, so far. Even mana ramp like Deranged Assistant and Millikin I have never been upset to see.
You commented my the scarab god decklist thread saying that you run out/low on cards lategame, and that's why you didn't like Looter il-kor and merfolk looter. If you are trying to stay with the low cmc cost for the deck, I would add better card draw. Even if you're running a higher cmc deck, still add card draw! Concentrate is insane for EDH and can't figure out why you don't have it. It's playable in almost every blue edh deck. Extremely cheap $ too. Then there are similar black cards like Ancient Craving and Ambition's cost. Read the Bones is lower cmc and almost just as good as the others. I could see the low curve of your deck being really dangerous with a bunch of good card draw. Just dump your hand super quick early game, then re-up. Also, more card draw makes looter il-kor and looter better. I have found those to be some of the best cards in my deck. Keep in mind, at 33% creatures, you have the possibility of simply milling a creature into your graveyard for later use even if you have no cards in hand. My hand stays full or close to it even late game with my deck, making these looting cards even better. If you have her, Thassa, God of the sea would probably be better than the looters given she is indestructible and has a second relevant ability. Also, I think Wharf Infiltrator is better than merfolk looter. That evasion, plus the ability to get extra bonus off of discarding a creature it decent.
Personally, when I think of mill, it doesn't necessarily mean "I'm trying to mill my opponent to 0 cards in library." Given your list, I don't think trying to mill your opponents out is at all feasible. I have mill in my deck solely in hopes of finding more targets for the god. Consuming Aberration can do a pretty good job of that, while being a good threat on it's own. Perhaps your not connecting with it enough because of too few boardwipes, more on that later. Don't forget he can play defense against an eldrazi or some other giant creature late game. Sometimes having a giant blocker is just as good as having a giant attacker as people will focus their attacks elsewhere for fear of losing their creature.
I'm curious at to how big an impact siren stormtamer type cards have an impact on your board. I can see now that mausoleum wanderer does have that cool bonus when reanimated, it costs an extra 4 mana to cast instants and sorceries for opponents. I will probably make room for it in my list.
Can you elaborate more on your low cmc focus? What benefits does it provide you? Does it help you against your meta specifically? I love the Scarab God for it's extreme flexibility in deck building. There are so many ways to take advantage of him. How does the low cmc help you do this?
My deck philosophy for the scarab god is, we naturally gain card advantage over our opponents by recasting the Scarab god for it's original mana cost, and being able to create creatures from the graveyards, and being able to scry for the cards we need late game. I built my deck around maximizing my card advantage while draining the opponents of their cards. I think the deck does better by making sure we can reach 8 mana reasonably well and relatively early. Being able to reanimate two creatures in one turn turns the tide fast on opponents.
I like to gain card advantage through boardwipes. Boardwipes are one of the most powerful things we can do with this deck. My usual line of early play is: ramp once or twice, play out a bunch of cheap creatures that replace themselves or close to it, dig/tutor for boardwipe. We wipe the board after our opponents play out a bunch of creatures/commanders, then go to town reanimating stuff. I think at least a couple of more boardwipes would help you out. Our deck just recovers so fast from them. Also Life's Finale is insane for this deck. This card is better than incremental mill. Just imagine holding off on playing the god, wiping the board, then being guaranteed to find the best 3 creatures out of someone's deck. Also curse of the swine is just too good. Being able to deal with multiple indestructible things at once is amazing, especially when you have a couple of ways to tutor for it.
You say you want to limit tutors, but there are a couple of cheap $ and not so broken tutors you could look into. You could replace Negate or Dimir Infiltrator with Muddle the Mixture. Muddle can be fine as a counterspell, or find you cyclonic rift, curse of the swine and many more relevant cards. Also, Mystical Tutor is also only about $4 with the reprint in Jace's spellbook. This card used to cost so much more, grab it asap before it goes up again. Having just a few tutors and at least 2-3 more boardwipes could really help with the consistency of the deck. Boardwipes are our friend I believe. Our god can be replayed for the same cost after them, we make our opponent's commander cost more after them, and we put a bunch of targets into the graveyard immediately following the boardwipe. Being at 9 mana isn't too bad either because we can play the god and a creature right after it. (These are the reasons I skewed my curve, land count and ramp to be higher rather than lower.)
You commented my the scarab god decklist thread saying that you run out/low on cards lategame, and that's why you didn't like Looter il-kor and merfolk looter. If you are trying to stay with the low cmc cost for the deck, I would add better card draw. Even if you're running a higher cmc deck, still add card draw! Concentrate is insane for EDH and can't figure out why you don't have it. It's playable in almost every blue edh deck. Extremely cheap $ too. Then there are similar black cards like Ancient Craving and Ambition's cost. Read the Bones is lower cmc and almost just as good as the others. I could see the low curve of your deck being really dangerous with a bunch of good card draw. Just dump your hand super quick early game, then re-up. Also, more card draw makes looter il-kor and looter better. I have found those to be some of the best cards in my deck. Keep in mind, at 33% creatures, you have the possibility of simply milling a creature into your graveyard for later use even if you have no cards in hand. My hand stays full or close to it even late game with my deck, making these looting cards even better. If you have her, Thassa, God of the sea would probably be better than the looters given she is indestructible and has a second relevant ability. Also, I think Wharf Infiltrator is better than merfolk looter. That evasion, plus the ability to get extra bonus off of discarding a creature it decent.
On the note of card draw, keep in mind that this deck is relatively young. I have a tendency to work through multiple renditions of a deck and play-test options thoroughly before I really cut cards out. I've been thinking about those spells lately, but Read the Bones was one I was already strongly considering (or something like Night's Whisper, given it's cmc of 2). The key here was I wanted to be flexible and adaptable: a card like Pull from Tomorrow is preferable for me because it scales with the game and I can play it at Instant speed. The other reason? My meta is diverse, and between combo, aggro, or the occasional voltron deck if I do not have mana open early, I may not live very long.
The first few iterations actually utilized wheels more frequently, but that got scrapped. My card quality doesn't match that of my opponent's on average (I kept Windfall more for fun and a bit of disruption, truthfully). The Wharf is a fair consideration (if only because it possibly makes a free body, though it is a bit of a nonbo with SG). Draw is something I'm working on, slowly, trying to find the ones that feel best with the deck.
Personally, when I think of mill, it doesn't necessarily mean "I'm trying to mill my opponent to 0 cards in library." Given your list, I don't think trying to mill your opponents out is at all feasible. I have mill in my deck solely in hopes of finding more targets for the god. Consuming Aberration can do a pretty good job of that, while being a good threat on it's own. Perhaps your not connecting with it enough because of too few boardwipes, more on that later. Don't forget he can play defense against an eldrazi or some other giant creature late game. Sometimes having a giant blocker is just as good as having a giant attacker as people will focus their attacks elsewhere for fear of losing their creature.
Oh, I'm aware. Had a Damia, Sage of Stone Big Mana Mill deck where Aberration did serious work. My intent was to use mill the same way - the real problem with Aberration definitely isn't my personal lack of wipes; it's how prevalent they are in my area and how willing people are to use them on a perceived threat. Just last weekend, I played a game where 10 wraths were played (between all players)... plus an attempted Armageddon. Trust me when I say though that as much as I'd love to play it - it really hasn't been working. Maybe I'll try again in the future, but I'll have to see.
I'm curious at to how big an impact siren stormtamer type cards have an impact on your board. I can see now that mausoleum wanderer does have that cool bonus when reanimated, it costs an extra 4 mana to cast instants and sorceries for opponents. I will probably make room for it in my list.
Siren Stormtamer and Mausoleum Wanderer in particular have been great I find; people are either incredibly wary of them, or completely forget they're there, even in plain sight. It makes for great "gotcha" moments. They make people nervous to touch my God, or steal my things.
Cursecatcher is coming out, though. Wanderer at least represents a better counter later, but Cursecatcher usually flops.
Can you elaborate more on your low cmc focus? What benefits does it provide you? Does it help you against your meta specifically? I love the Scarab God for it's extreme flexibility in deck building. There are so many ways to take advantage of him. How does the low cmc help you do this?
As I said earlier, I have a fairly diverse meta and any deck you can think of is probably represented (minus cEDH). As a longtime player of UB, we're not known for having the most explosive starts or the greatest early-game defense. An aggro deck, or even attacks of opportunity, can really whittle my life total badly before I even get into the game (there have been many times I lost because my life total fell beneath 20 in the first few turns). Admittedly, I was partially inspired to build SG this way by peeking at Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Wydwen, the Biting Gale, because the former proves how powerful small utility creatures can be and the latter emphasizes instant-speed interaction (hence, a fair number of flash creatures).
But The Scarab God has it's own strengths to add to those, I felt. I can take small, evasive creatures and make them larger. I can reuse my interactive creatures for added disruption, and still at instant speed. It's definitely more of a midrange-control approach: I'm in no rush to pump out Eternalized creatures, but happy to flood the board and deter my opponents with interaction (and some politics, when opportunity strikes). I take my time, apply pressure when needed, and let opponents solve my problems for me. The consistency our God provides makes it hard on the rest of the table once it really gets going.
But as a last point on the cmc: my thought process was that if I was going to take dorks and make them big, it helped ensure my mana was always open. If I have six mana and play a two-drop, I can keep one activation of SG up at all times. Even if I just get a Dusk Legion Zealot at End of Turn, it helps keep everyone on their toes.
My deck philosophy for the scarab god is, we naturally gain card advantage over our opponents by recasting the Scarab god for it's original mana cost, and being able to create creatures from the graveyards, and being able to scry for the cards we need late game. I built my deck around maximizing my card advantage while draining the opponents of their cards. I think the deck does better by making sure we can reach 8 mana reasonably well and relatively early. Being able to reanimate two creatures in one turn turns the tide fast on opponents.
You're not wrong. People wisen up quickly though and find other ways to prevent the God landing, though. The Scarab God naturally lends itself to the late-game, but adding to my previous response, I cannot emphasize enough how important the fact that the activated ability is Instant speed. Simply being a U deck holding up mana can deter aggression. And if you choose not to counter or respond to anything, simply reanimate something into a 4/4. But all that means nothing if we can't keep the God in play. Plenty of decks can go wider, faster. And ramp so much harder. I can't hope to compete with them in those aspects - only keep them under control while my army builds itself.
I like to gain card advantage through boardwipes. Boardwipes are one of the most powerful things we can do with this deck. My usual line of early play is: ramp once or twice, play out a bunch of cheap creatures that replace themselves or close to it, dig/tutor for boardwipe. We wipe the board after our opponents play out a bunch of creatures/commanders, then go to town reanimating stuff. I think at least a couple of more boardwipes would help you out. Our deck just recovers so fast from them. Also Life's Finale is insane for this deck. This card is better than incremental mill. Just imagine holding off on playing the god, wiping the board, then being guaranteed to find the best 3 creatures out of someone's deck. Also curse of the swine is just too good. Being able to deal with multiple indestructible things at once is amazing, especially when you have a couple of ways to tutor for it.
I was looking into adding more wipes, regardless. I originally cut Life's Finale from my preliminary testing, but it is worth another shot. I was also considering Curse of the Swine already, because it fits in with my critera of "scales with the game" and while it does exile the creatures it targets, it can almost function as a one-sided wrath with enough mana. As you can probably guess, I like having options. So UU1: Exile a creature isn't awful if you desperately need it.
You say you want to limit tutors, but there are a couple of cheap $ and not so broken tutors you could look into. You could replace Negate or Dimir Infiltrator with Muddle the Mixture. Muddle can be fine as a counterspell, or find you cyclonic rift, curse of the swine and many more relevant cards. Also, Mystical Tutor is also only about $4 with the reprint in Jace's spellbook. This card used to cost so much more, grab it asap before it goes up again. Having just a few tutors and at least 2-3 more boardwipes could really help with the consistency of the deck. Boardwipes are our friend I believe. Our god can be replayed for the same cost after them, we make our opponent's commander cost more after them, and we put a bunch of targets into the graveyard immediately following the boardwipe. Being at 9 mana isn't too bad either because we can play the god and a creature right after it. (These are the reasons I skewed my curve, land count and ramp to be higher rather than lower.)
Anyway, that was an earful (eyeful?) I'm sure. I appreciated your comments on my deck, hope this helps.
I noted in my "cutting block" that I would be swapping out Dimir Infiltrator with a Muddle the Mixture at my earliest convenience. Muddle is interaction whereas Infiltrator is just a bad sorcery-speed tutor. I already own a Mystical Tutor I'm not using, so I'll take your word on that one and try it out.
Actually just picked up another Chupacapra for this deck; those two were on my 'tryouts' list for a while.
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate the input. Hopefully this is the beginning of a long and fruitful discussion about Scarab God. I definitely feel like he was overshadowed badly by Locust God on release, and aside from being put into the 99 of a few decks, I haven't seen him much.
You answered my questions perfectly. I have a much better grasp of the deck and your meta now. My meta is much more laid back, with my decks usually being superior than my opponents'. Your meta does sound very beastly and fast. Also while your meta is flooded with wraths, mine lacks them. It's part of the reason I built this deck with that boardwipe focus. Life's finale is still worth putting in I think.
Given what you said, perhaps Propaganda would work for you. Nice and cheap and really deters the early aggression. Dissipation field can play a similar role. Also Grave pact if you've got the $ for it. With your 33 creatures cheap creatures, you can always have something up to block with to scare off opponents. Unless it encourages them to attack you because they want other opponents creatures to die.
You may find a nice Entomb, Final Parting and Vengeful Pharaoh addition to be useful. Just throw that in the yard to scare off big swings towards you. As a bonus, it's already a zombie with decent stats.
I look forward to bettering our decks and sharing our experiences together!
Already own a copy of Grave Pact. Sadly, my playgroup is afraid of me whenever I include it in a deck, it starts making games incredibly oppressive. It's a thought, but I'll test it after the deck is more refined. GP is definitely a card I used to slam into anything I built but doesn't always fit with what you want to be doing.
Been considering trimming the creatures a little, anyway. I like Propaganda, but I also like advancing the board state rather than stalling it, depending.
Mm, Entomb is something I've considered if I decide to add the Laboratory Maniac + Mirror-Mad Phantasm combo. Because honestly? There aren't that many cards I'd like to tutor into my graveyard right now. Final Parting fits better, and I have a few copies laying around, the part that irks me is the 5cmc: remember that since I like playing with interaction, spending 4+ mana on my turn is shields down typically. Which isn't to say it's impossible, just that it makes me nervous lol
Also... Much as I love Vengeful Pharaoh, why? SG won't want to reanimate it, and it can mess with my draws. Also, note that it isn't a 'may' ability. If they attack, it will trigger whether you want it to or not.
The way you described your meta I just imagined eldrazi attacking you on like turn 5! lol. It sounds fast and aggressive compared to what I'm used to. I was just brainstorming with Vengeful Pharaoh. I took him out of my deck.
I keep envisioning how your games are different than mine. I realized that you probably have many more targets for the scarab god early on. If people are constantly boardwiping and attacking in early, the yards will fill up fast. I can see how you'd rather start reanimating creatures than trying to do fancy pants slower style play.
In my meta, the yards will stay empty of creatures, usually until I boardwipe or get a mill card. Also, my deck has a higher curver, so I'd rather play a good 5 or 6 drop creature before my god ever comes out. Make my opponents deal with consuming aberration or wurmcoil engine before the god hits the field. I can see how being able to just start reanimating creatures turn 5/6 would be better for you, as you're more likely to already have some nice targets for it.
Mikaeus the unhallowed is pretty freaking amazing in this deck. I know I know, 6 mana. However, I believe him to be the best creature in my deck. Expensive $$ also. Definitely worth picking one up through trade or saving up for it eventually. We have so many good etb effects, this guy allows us to get to have the creature out 3 times instead of 2. Just imagine playing Masoleum wanderer with this guy out. You can sac. the wanderer to counter a spell unless the pay 2, then resac. it for the same spell to make it cost a total of 5 extra. Then, you can still reanimate it later with the god. Mulldrifter becomes 6 cards eventually if you can chump with it. Ravenous chupacabra+Mikaeus+ ashnod's altar? play chupa, kill creature, sac. it for mana, kill another creature, sac. it again, use two of the floating mana to reanimate with the god, kill another creature. You did that by paying 6 mana and you have 2 colorless floating left over. You are left with a 5/5 chupacabra on the field. He can do crazy things.
You can also throw in the Triskelion combo with mikaeus, though the lab. maniac/phantasm combo might be better.
Vengeful Pharaoh is a pet card of mine if I'm being honest, and for some time now I can never justify it. I'll probably try it out in a Varina, Lich Queen build eventually though - it seems fitting.
Hmm, we do have a few people who like to cheat Eldrazi in (namely, an Animar, Soul of Elements and Rakdos, Lord of Riots) and punch faces in fast. A good word to describe my meta is 'cautious': the most common colors seems to be green, black, then a toss up between blue and white. A lot of recursion, targeted removal, counters, and wipes depending on the decks (which steadily fill graves). SG disrupts the normal flow of the game by being something of a natural graveyard deterrent, while also turning virtually any dumb utility creature into a solid 4/4.
Mikaeus is definitely something to consider if I had enough time to get a big turn together. The problem is keeping those creatures I want to recur in play, most times. I actually tend to use Mulldrifter as a recurrable Divination with a body.
+1 to the Mikaeus hype. I played a couple of games last night with SG, and Mikaeus was a card I wanted every time. The deck is full of ETB effects and removal, so re-buying all of that seems like a very solid idea.
One card that I wasn't terribly impressed with last night was Monastery Siege. Maybe it was because I chose Dragons and my opponents were using abilites (not spells) to mess with me, but it just didn't feel like it was doing much.
Finally, I'm starting to see that the dedicated mill spells like Consuming Aberration and Phenax might actually not be necessary. Maybe it was the abundance of Avenger of Zendikars on the table, but I was able to get enough bodies into the yards just by playing removal spells.
About Monastery Siege... It was something of a toss-in. I didn't have a better card on hand when I was taking out a bad card, so I added it for the loot. It's leaving the deck very soon, though.
Thankfully, everyone I know is fine with proxies, so it doesn't hurt me to try it I suppose. I'll be spending some time this weekend to clean up my initial post and update the decklist with my current changes.
Finally, I'm starting to see that the dedicated mill spells like Consuming Aberration and Phenax might actually not be necessary. Maybe it was the abundance of Avenger of Zendikars on the table, but I was able to get enough bodies into the yards just by playing removal spells.
Oh, definitely. In the theoretical stages of the deck they seem fantastic, but you have to remember that everything is magical Christmas land at that point. Usually they don't live long, aren't allowed to touch down, or end up being a dead card because they don't immediately impact the board.
I remember the other board wipe I wanted to add now - Toxic Deluge.
Yeah I played a Deluge last time and it was exactly what it needed to be. Low mana cost, flexible enough to not kill something if necessary, kills indestructible and hexproof guys and everything else. Totally worth the spot.
If you want/need another of these effects, Black Sun’s Zenith was also excellent for me, and you can find it with Spellseeker.
I got in a good game last week. I got to test out Helm of the Host. THIS CARD IS THE BOMB!!! I was making copies of one of my etb removal on a stick creatures. I started decimating. It can even make additional copies of the Scarab God if you already have a ton of zombies out. In my deck, helm of the host has so many good targets. Even an etb draw a card creature is pretty nice as a target.
Anyone else looking at Vedalken Orrery? I think this card particularly shines in this deck. Especially in my build, where I run a lot of boardwipes and removal on a stick creatures. Those are much, MUCH better at instant speed.
I'm considering adding Meteor Golem to have something to deal with enchantments et. I really don't like it's cost though.
As far as mill goes, my deck is running Dread Summons, Altar of the Brood and consuming aberration at this point. Altar is just too cheap and effective not to play. Can regularly mill two cards per opponent on our turn. Messes with vampiric tutor, Sensei's divining top and the like. Dread summons I like to play late game when my opponents are running low on cards. Can also be good to get a quick board presence if you have enough mana after your wipe. I find if you cast this for 6-7 mana you end up with a really decent number of zombies for the mana spent. Plus all those extra targets in the yard.
I still have to order consuming aberration and test it. However, this looks good mid game in that you could cast this and maybe another cheap spell to start them milling. I find by turn 4/5 there are at least a few cards in the yard. If it survives a full turn cycle, I would stand a good chance of casting two more spells on the same turn and mill away. Now that dude is giant, and has found me a ton of targets for the God. That's theoretically at least, but my meta seems to be slower than yours.
I hope y'all don't mind me musing more on this thread about my deck, as we have three of them between us. This thread has been getting the most action lately, so I'll post here about an idea I just had specifically for my deck. (Though I hope it intrigues y'all.)
I'm starting to hedge this deck more and more toward a combo deck (Mikaeus the unhallowed and Triskelion). My meta finally seems ready for it, especially if I take it easy on 'em combo wise. My deck already has some tutors that will help me fetch these. Mikaeus can be put into the 'yard and still have the combo work, but triskelion must go into hand.
I'm considering trophy mage as an addition to my list which already has Wurmcoil engine and triskelion as targets. Additionally, I could add in the Meteor Golem to really fill out the package. The mage should stand me a really good chance of netting 2 targets if I get a chance to reanimate him. This would not only make the combo stronger, but makes the deck more resilient in having a fetchable answer to enchantments, planeswalkers, and artifacts.
With all of the tutors I'm running, the combo should come together fairly easily, though not too quickly. I look at this like "combo deck light." It will take a a lot of mana and cards to pull off, but it can happen somewhat regularly given the lengths of my meta's games. My meta doesn't like the idea of combo decks in edh. Given this is more of a secondary win condition, and I can always choose not to go for my combo if people get too annoyed, it seems worth a shot.
I already have my "It costs 12 mana and almost always 2 turns!" defense ready in case of *****ing!
P.S. If you don't have Trinket Mage alongside Sol Ring, Skullclamp and possibly Altar of the Brood, you should check your priorities. For 5 mana you can play trinket mage, search for skullclamp, equip clamp, draw two cards and have trinket mage in the 'yard ready to find you an altar of the brood. Clamp is value in this deck.
I run a more discard oriented build of The Scarab God, but some cards that could work for your deck, that I have been very impressed by are:
Needle Specter is a monster when it is eternalized and not answered quickly as it quickly ensures that your opponents are playing hellbent until it is dealt with. Gilded Drake is an easy way of stealing someone else's best creature and then being able to reuse this ability is very strong. Venser, Shaper Savant is also instant speed removal, both from the hand and from the graveyard.
The only zombie I run is Graveborn Muse as it is a card advantage engine even without additional zombies. Grave Titan is also very helpful.
Vedalken Orrery is one of those cards that's solid in almost every deck.
Helm of the Host is also solid, but these colors don't exactly lend themselves to having an abundance of mana, and that can be a problem sometimes. It's still fine, but it's a lot more viable in green-based decks with enough mana to reliably make it work.
I'm considering trophy mage as an addition to my list which already has Wurmcoil engine and triskelion as targets. Additionally, I could add in the Meteor Golem to really fill out the package. The mage should stand me a really good chance of netting 2 targets if I get a chance to reanimate him. This would not only make the combo stronger, but makes the deck more resilient in having a fetchable answer to enchantments, planeswalkers, and artifacts.
Do you mean Treasure Mage? If so, he's really only viable in non-black decks that don't have as many tutor options. I do like Mikaeus in this type of deck based solely on the number of ETB creatures you are bound to be running.
P.S. If you don't have Trinket Mage alongside Sol Ring, Skullclamp and possibly Altar of the Brood, you should check your priorities. For 5 mana you can play trinket mage, search for skullclamp, equip clamp, draw two cards and have trinket mage in the 'yard ready to find you an altar of the brood. Clamp is value in this deck.
Trinket Mage is a 2/2, so you would need to already have a sac outlet in order to Clamp it and draw two right away. It's an okay card...having access to multiple copies of your best and cheapest artifacts is fine, but not a game-changer.
Okay, wow, a lot of activity while I wasn't paying attention. Let's get some discussion going.
When it comes to Vedalken Orrery/Leyline of Anticipation, you really can't go wrong - as long as you feel you afford to take a turn off to play either. If you aren't under imminent threat of death they transform the game and make everything so much more powerful (especially when combined with something like, say, As Foretold). Personally, haven't tried it in my SG yet simply because I only own one and I don't know if I can afford that single, do-nothing turn without getting it either a) blown to hell or b) my face beaten in. They're still fantastic.
My only big problem with Helm of the Host - which I've gotta agree is a sweet card - is the initial investment. I intend on including it in a Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer list later on because of how insane it gets with him, but 9 mana to cast + equip in one turn isn't a small amount. You can kick a Rite of Replication for the same amount of mana, as a good example.
Regardling the Kagemaro, First to Suffer, keep us updated! I considered it a while ago but wasn't convinced by theory - I average 3-5 cards in hand most games, and while 5 might kill most creatures, I wouldn't want to risk it being dead or pointless.
@Meteor Golem. As far as our options go for enchantment and artifact removal in UB, it's great. As long as you can afford to play it. It might be more at home in a traditional-styled reanimator version, where there are methods other than just our commander to recur it.
On the topic of the Mage Cycle (Trinket, Trophy, and Treasure) - I think they're fine additions, but you might need the deck to be skewed towards artifacts for maximum value. I initially started using Trinket and Trophy to search for artifact lands or rocks as a form of recurrable ramp, but those proved too slow and low-impact for me, personally. Better to add more actual card draw, and keep less greedy hands. Spellseeker is superior to them overall, I feel, given the abundance of good targets (and even just convenient, like a counterspell).
and thanks for mentioning Graveborn Muse, paragon, I've been considering replacing Twilight Prophet with it lately simply because it'd translate to an extra 3-4 cards on average (for myself at least).
Out of curiosity, has anyone else had problems maintaining a healthy life total? Aside from Garry, I don't have much lifegain included in the deck, so I can find myself dangerously low fairly quickly.
So while I play a different style of The Scarab God, a lack of life gain and early hate (my deck is discard themed) can definitely make me a target. The only cards in my deck that gain me life are Bloodchief Ascension and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. Other than that, you are at the mercy of what your opponents have in their graveyard.
Also, out of curiosity, why are you running Deathbringer Regent? At best, it is a 7 mana board wipe that cannot be recurred with The Scarab God.
So while I play a different style of The Scarab God, a lack of life gain and early hate (my deck is discard themed) can definitely make me a target. The only cards in my deck that gain me life are Bloodchief Ascension and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. Other than that, you are at the mercy of what your opponents have in their graveyard.
Also, out of curiosity, why are you running Deathbringer Regent? At best, it is a 7 mana board wipe that cannot be recurred with The Scarab God.
Hmm. Personally, I enjoy resource-denial strategies like Discard, but I find I prefer to build around it for a deck or include one or two powerful pieces for that added surprise factor. Sadistic Hypnotist is a great example; sac a few creatures to wipe hands, when the opportunity presents itself. Fair enough though.
Deathbringer Regent was a recent include I wanted to test: For me, it is essentially always a boardwipe that leaves a large, flying body behind. If it ends up in the graveyard for any reason (milled/discarded/dies), it's another reanimation target for SG - it isn't about getting a second wipe, just ensuring I have a neutral target. I like to leave up mana and do tricks at instant speed - sometimes I'll wait on Eternalizing the better targets, simply because I don't need them yet, just another 4/4 body. Something like Necromantic Selection may be better for those purposes, when I think about it, but I also dislike triple black pips.
So while I play a different style of The Scarab God, a lack of life gain and early hate (my deck is discard themed) can definitely make me a target. The only cards in my deck that gain me life are Bloodchief Ascension and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet. Other than that, you are at the mercy of what your opponents have in their graveyard.
Also, out of curiosity, why are you running Deathbringer Regent? At best, it is a 7 mana board wipe that cannot be recurred with The Scarab God.
Hmm. Personally, I enjoy resource-denial strategies like Discard, but I find I prefer to build around it for a deck or include one or two powerful pieces for that added surprise factor. Sadistic Hypnotist is a great example; sac a few creatures to wipe hands, when the opportunity presents itself. Fair enough though.
Deathbringer Regent was a recent include I wanted to test: For me, it is essentially always a boardwipe that leaves a large, flying body behind. If it ends up in the graveyard for any reason (milled/discarded/dies), it's another reanimation target for SG - it isn't about getting a second wipe, just ensuring I have a neutral target. I like to leave up mana and do tricks at instant speed - sometimes I'll wait on Eternalizing the better targets, simply because I don't need them yet, just another 4/4 body. Something like Necromantic Selection may be better for those purposes, when I think about it, but I also dislike triple black pips.
A few of the non-discard creatures that I am running that I didn't see in your list that I run and am very happy with (the specter package on my end need to be reworked):
Gilded Drake, which lets me steal their best creature twice (and is tutorable with your transmute package).
Solemn Simulacrum which is land ramp in not green and card advantage (6UB gets us two basics, 6 power of creatures and two cards).
Vedalken Orrery is one of those cards that's solid in almost every deck.
Helm of the Host is also solid, but these colors don't exactly lend themselves to having an abundance of mana, and that can be a problem sometimes. It's still fine, but it's a lot more viable in green-based decks with enough mana to reliably make it work.
I'm considering trophy mage as an addition to my list which already has Wurmcoil engine and triskelion as targets. Additionally, I could add in the Meteor Golem to really fill out the package. The mage should stand me a really good chance of netting 2 targets if I get a chance to reanimate him. This would not only make the combo stronger, but makes the deck more resilient in having a fetchable answer to enchantments, planeswalkers, and artifacts.
Do you mean Treasure Mage? If so, he's really only viable in non-black decks that don't have as many tutor options. I do like Mikaeus in this type of deck based solely on the number of ETB creatures you are bound to be running.
P.S. If you don't have Trinket Mage alongside Sol Ring, Skullclamp and possibly Altar of the Brood, you should check your priorities. For 5 mana you can play trinket mage, search for skullclamp, equip clamp, draw two cards and have trinket mage in the 'yard ready to find you an altar of the brood. Clamp is value in this deck.
Trinket Mage is a 2/2, so you would need to already have a sac outlet in order to Clamp it and draw two right away. It's an okay card...having access to multiple copies of your best and cheapest artifacts is fine, but not a game-changer.
Whoops, I forgot it's a 2/2. I did mean Treasure Mage, not trophy mage. Thanks.
Now, I do have to defend the trinket mage and sol ring/skullclamp/altar of the brood package. Also: Sensei's Divining Top! Being able to search for a sol ring on turn 3 IS A HUGE GAME CHANGER. Sol ring is arguably one of the most powerful cards in EDH. It's still a game changer later on. Skullclamp is incredibly good too in this creature based deck. It's harder to find a better draw rate than 2 cards for 2 mana that becomes 2 cards for 1 mana the second time you use it. Yes, your creature has to die. Just block with it or wait until the next boardwipe. If you opponent decides not to attack you because they are afraid of you drawing 2 cards and attack someone else, clamp still did something nice for you. Altar of the brood is just gravy and would only search for it if I didn't have the other two.
Are you intentionally avoiding playing sol ring Grimoire? In that case Trinket mage might not be worth it, but for anyone running the ring it seems incredible.
On Deathbringer Regent: I used to run him. I found that I actually couldn't use it as much as I wanted because I would often have more creatures than my opponents late game. I switched it out for Reiver Demon. Then switched out Reiver demon after I put in some better tutors to find Damnation, Life's finale. I also put in spell seeker which can find you Curse of the swine or cyclonic rift. I found I didn't really need creature based boardwipes after that. I could see regent being a better card if you tend to play larger 5+ player games.
imPrisoned in the moon!!! This could help me take care of that pesky Jeleva deck that's been beating me. I also like Arena of the Ancients. It gets around hexproof and will lock down all commanders eventually (Or turn them into a permanent blocker at least if someone plays their commander after it's on the board.) Also, our commander does so much more that attacking/blocking we still get lots of value out of it even if it's tapped.
Out of curiosity, has anyone else had problems maintaining a healthy life total? Aside from Garry, I don't have much lifegain included in the deck, so I can find myself dangerously low fairly quickly.
My life total is usually fine as most games I get access to a boardwipe fairly quickly if I want to.
If you are having problems with life, Whip of Erebos and Basilisk Collar can be useful. Exsanguinate is also a fine option. Basilisk collar is great because it deters attacks as well as gaining life. Especially good in a deck with a lot of evasion. Also searchable with Trinket Mage
If your life total is going down the usual way, through attacking, those blue enchantments/deathtouch stuff will deter opponents from attacking you. Propaganda and Dissipation field were mentioned before I believe. Keep in mind the subtlety of shifting attacks away from you. If two opponents attack another opponent instead of you, that is an amazing advantage. Not only did you avoid losing life, someone else either has to lose life or creatures instead. Those cards have paid for themselves in value at that point, and will probably continue to accrue more. It's hard to notice someone not attacking you, but trust me, they won't because of these cards multiple times throughout the game. (Watch out for dissipation field if your meta is full of etb abilities on evasive creatures.)
I think your deck might get better by switching out some of that instant speed removal with a board wipe or two more. Maybe a bit more ramp to make sure you can play those boardwipes in a timely manner.
Maybe I'm crazy, but is Death Baron worth considering for you? Perhaps it's too slow if you find it's hard to keep another zombie on the field. On the other hand, you might be able to ambush an attacker directed at you with deathtouch. Also making all of the zombies 5/5 instead of 4/4 isn't too shabby either. Helps with evasive damage and blocking toughness. It's a bit out there, but if your losing life due to many attacks, it could help.
Grave Titan which is a game ending threat that synergizes very well with our commander.
Venser, Shaper Savant, which is either a remand or a way of being able to deal with a problematic enchantment/artifact.
One card I have been very happy with is Imprisoned in the Moon which deals with a problematic commander for a significant chunk of time.
I've been considering Imprisoned in the Moon for a little while now, another way to deal with off-color or indestructible threats.
I'd love to play Gilded Drake. It's a cheap, sorcery-speed (most of the time) way of dealing with large threats. That price tag, tho. I am operating under something of a budget, so I wouldn't be getting one anytime soon.
Solemn and Venser are also things I've been considering for a while; I've just been hesitant to raise the cmc of the deck.
I am interested in knowing if you've posted your Discard-based list online anywhere?
Out of curiosity, has anyone else had problems maintaining a healthy life total? Aside from Garry, I don't have much lifegain included in the deck, so I can find myself dangerously low fairly quickly.
My life total is usually fine as most games I get access to a boardwipe fairly quickly if I want to.
If you are having problems with life, Whip of Erebos and Basilisk Collar can be useful. Exsanguinate is also a fine option. Basilisk collar is great because it deters attacks as well as gaining life. Especially good in a deck with a lot of evasion. Also searchable with Trinket Mage
If your life total is going down the usual way, through attacking, those blue enchantments/deathtouch stuff will deter opponents from attacking you. Propaganda and Dissipation field were mentioned before I believe. Keep in mind the subtlety of shifting attacks away from you. If two opponents attack another opponent instead of you, that is an amazing advantage. Not only did you avoid losing life, someone else either has to lose life or creatures instead. Those cards have paid for themselves in value at that point, and will probably continue to accrue more. It's hard to notice someone not attacking you, but trust me, they won't because of these cards multiple times throughout the game. (Watch out for dissipation field if your meta is full of etb abilities on evasive creatures.)
Propaganda is a stronger consideration recently. My usual approach to deckbuilding (working through iterations and identifying weakness), especially in edh, is that I always play a set number of games and take notes about how things progress: in my last ten games, I've won four. But of those I lost, I was against aggressive, attack-oriented decks (Atarka, Lathliss, RG Omnath, Edgar, etc). Too much damage too quickly. Before I throw Whip in (because it's in too many decks I enjoy already), I'll try Propaganda and/or No Mercy, because attacking me incurs a consequence with the latter. Koskun Falls is an option too, since I usually have dorks out.
Not sure if I can agree with the Basilisk Collar, though. Perhaps it's just my Grixis shining through, but I'm usually not a fan of equipment unless it synergizes naturally... or has flavor reasons, whichever..
As far as ramp goes, I may just relent and add sol ring. much as I hate the damned thing.
[quote]I think your deck might get better by switching out some of that instant speed removal with a board wipe or two more. Maybe a bit more ramp to make sure you can play those boardwipes in a timely manner.
Maybe I'm crazy, but is Death Baron worth considering for you? Perhaps it's too slow if you find it's hard to keep another zombie on the field. On the other hand, you might be able to ambush an attacker directed at you with deathtouch. Also making all of the zombies 5/5 instead of 4/4 isn't too shabby either. Helps with evasive damage and blocking toughness. It's a bit out there, but if your losing life due to many attacks, it could help.
The boardwipe ratio is something I'm still working on: I prefer them to be cheap, or provide an advantage.
As far as Death Baron is concerned, I do think it could have a place in Scarab God - but moreso when you already have a strong Zombie basis. My first two iterations of the deck kept a Zombie sub-theme, and I included it, but it never had quite the impact I wanted unless I'd already swarmed the board. But with the current list, I've been thinking lately about pulling Lich Lord of Unx out; the last piece of zombie synergy in the deck. Too slow, too low impact without other zombie synergies.
My account or the site doesn't appear to be working right right now so I can't do all of the fancy card tags and stuff. I think I've dug up a gem that may be useful for you: Wizard Replica! With how fast your meta is, this guy is perfect. Pop him out before all of those expensive commanders and force your opponents to sweat the decision to save up an extra 2 mana, or risk their commander or good spell being countered. Just make sure you play him at 4 mana so you can leave the one blue up. Then he comes back as a 4/4 flyer! Nice. I'm going to add this bad boy to my deck.
Pretty sure the site is undergoing maintenance, or something is wrong, because I've been encountering the same problem today. Also, not a bad catch! I do enjoy gotcha cards - my friends have been a lot more cautious around Mausoleum Wanderer after being blown out by it a few times.
My meta is only fast in the sense that there is a wide variety of decks, and people enjoy playing red - lots of damage and big combat swings. I've already had a reputation as a preferred control player, so there is a tendency to punch me first (especially among my friends). Sometimes, I'll sit down and the entire table will be blue; other-times (like last night), I'll be the only blue player at a table with 3 red decks. It's why I'm aiming for a middle-ground with this deck, it feels.
Art by Mathias Kollros, found it on his artstation. Link here.
// 99 //
// 10 // Artifact
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sol Ring
1 Altar of the Brood
2 Dimir Signet
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Altar of Dementia
2 Fellwar Stone
3 Ashnod's Altar
// 31 // Creature
1 Viscera Seer
1 Siren Stormtamer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Miasmic Mummy
2 Rotting Rats
2 Baleful Strix
2 Merfolk Looter
2 Dusk Legion Zealot
3 Liliana's Specter
2 Deranged Assistant
2 Millikin
2 Soldevi Adnate
3 Fatespinner
3 Burnished Hart
3 Spellseeker
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Spiketail Drakeling
3 Wizard Replica
3 Merciless Executioner
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Hostage Taker
5 Mulldrifter
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
6 Noxious Gearhulk
6 Consecrated Sphinx
7 Herald of Anguish
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Training Grounds
3 Oppression
3 Rhystic Study
5 Painful Quandary
// 1 // Planeswalker
8 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// 10 // Instant
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rapid Hybridization
2 Arcane Denial
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Negate
2 Counterspell
2 Reality Shift
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Dismember
// 37 // Land
0 Fetid Pools
0 Ash Barrens
0 Underground River
0 Sunken Hollow
0 Myriad Landscape
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Watery Grave
0 Command Tower
11 Swamp
18 Island
2 Night's Whisper
2 Curse of the Swine
3 Read the Bones
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Damnation
6 Life's Finale
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sol Ring
2 Dimir Signet
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Soldevi Adnate
2 Deranged Assistant
2 Millikin
3 Burnished Hart
4 Solemn Simulacrum
// 10 // Draw
2 Baleful Strix
2 Merfolk Looter
2 Dusk Legion Zealot
2 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Night's Whisper
3 Read the Bones
3 Rhystic Study
4 Graveborn Muse
5 Mulldrifter
6 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Miasmic Mummy
2 Rotting Rats
3 Liliana's Specter
3 Oppression
5 Painful Quandary
7 Herald of Anguish
// 9 // Removal
1 Rapid Hybridization
2 Reality Shift
3 Dismember
3 Merciless Executioner
3 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Ravenous Chupacabra
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Hostage Taker
6 Noxious Gearhulk
// 6 // Countermagic
1 Siren Stormtamer
2 Arcane Denial
2 Negate
2 Counterspell
3 Wizard Replica
3 Spiketail Drakeling
2 Curse of the Swine
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Damnation
6 Life's Finale
8 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// 4 // Tutors
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Muddle the Mixture
3 Spellseeker
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
// 10 // Utility
1 Viscera Seer
1 Altar of the Brood
1 Training Grounds
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Altar of Dementia
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Fatespinner
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Vendilion Clique
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Solemn Simulacrum
8 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Mistvein Borderpost
3 Champion of Wits
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
2 Mind Stone
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
3 As Foretold
2 Soldevi Adnate
3 Spiketail Drakeling
3 Fatespinner
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Liliana of the Veil
I'm surprised by this, and I bought a copy of each of these specifically for this deck. Maybe it's because my local meta is heavily green-based, and very "fair", but it seems like filling up someone else's graveyard has a higher chance of yielding a great reanimation target. I'm not saying that either of them is better than casting Scarab God, but at some point I would think that either one would provide some value from the opposition.
Also, have you tried some bigger bodies like Psychic Symbiont or Dinrova Horror?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Some things I've learned in my first few rounds of games:
It might be because Consuming Aberration and Phenax are at odds with how interactive I wanted to play the deck. If I'm tapping out 5 mana, it needs to do something or present an imminent threat. Scarab God does that (I can always Eternalize next turn, or with mana left open). Mill isn't the greatest win condition and while I do have many cheaper spells, Aberration tends to just be a big dumb beater and gets chumped to hell and back. I have considered trying to put something like a Wonder in the deck, now and again. Their problem may simply be that my meta doesn't have many opportunities for their value to shine. Wipes are a constant, so I'll never have too much power for Phenax (and Scarab God already helps to break stalls w/scry + drain).
I definitely agree on using my opponent's resources - UB is fantastic for that. But I've been favoring effects like Hedron Crab, Manic Scribe, Altar of the Brood, Altar of Dementia, or Psychic Corrosion. My only real problem with cards like Symbiont and Horror are their cmc, because a goal of the deck was to keep the cmc low unless it had sufficient impact. Anything cheap that helps the deck chug along is great, so far. Even mana ramp like Deranged Assistant and Millikin I have never been upset to see.
Personally, when I think of mill, it doesn't necessarily mean "I'm trying to mill my opponent to 0 cards in library." Given your list, I don't think trying to mill your opponents out is at all feasible. I have mill in my deck solely in hopes of finding more targets for the god. Consuming Aberration can do a pretty good job of that, while being a good threat on it's own. Perhaps your not connecting with it enough because of too few boardwipes, more on that later. Don't forget he can play defense against an eldrazi or some other giant creature late game. Sometimes having a giant blocker is just as good as having a giant attacker as people will focus their attacks elsewhere for fear of losing their creature.
I'm curious at to how big an impact siren stormtamer type cards have an impact on your board. I can see now that mausoleum wanderer does have that cool bonus when reanimated, it costs an extra 4 mana to cast instants and sorceries for opponents. I will probably make room for it in my list.
Can you elaborate more on your low cmc focus? What benefits does it provide you? Does it help you against your meta specifically? I love the Scarab God for it's extreme flexibility in deck building. There are so many ways to take advantage of him. How does the low cmc help you do this?
My deck philosophy for the scarab god is, we naturally gain card advantage over our opponents by recasting the Scarab god for it's original mana cost, and being able to create creatures from the graveyards, and being able to scry for the cards we need late game. I built my deck around maximizing my card advantage while draining the opponents of their cards. I think the deck does better by making sure we can reach 8 mana reasonably well and relatively early. Being able to reanimate two creatures in one turn turns the tide fast on opponents.
I like to gain card advantage through boardwipes. Boardwipes are one of the most powerful things we can do with this deck. My usual line of early play is: ramp once or twice, play out a bunch of cheap creatures that replace themselves or close to it, dig/tutor for boardwipe. We wipe the board after our opponents play out a bunch of creatures/commanders, then go to town reanimating stuff. I think at least a couple of more boardwipes would help you out. Our deck just recovers so fast from them. Also Life's Finale is insane for this deck. This card is better than incremental mill. Just imagine holding off on playing the god, wiping the board, then being guaranteed to find the best 3 creatures out of someone's deck. Also curse of the swine is just too good. Being able to deal with multiple indestructible things at once is amazing, especially when you have a couple of ways to tutor for it.
You say you want to limit tutors, but there are a couple of cheap $ and not so broken tutors you could look into. You could replace Negate or Dimir Infiltrator with Muddle the Mixture. Muddle can be fine as a counterspell, or find you cyclonic rift, curse of the swine and many more relevant cards. Also, Mystical Tutor is also only about $4 with the reprint in Jace's spellbook. This card used to cost so much more, grab it asap before it goes up again. Having just a few tutors and at least 2-3 more boardwipes could really help with the consistency of the deck. Boardwipes are our friend I believe. Our god can be replayed for the same cost after them, we make our opponent's commander cost more after them, and we put a bunch of targets into the graveyard immediately following the boardwipe. Being at 9 mana isn't too bad either because we can play the god and a creature right after it. (These are the reasons I skewed my curve, land count and ramp to be higher rather than lower.)
Ravenous Chupacabra and Hostage Taker are too good to pass up in my opinion.
Anyway, that was an earful (eyeful?) I'm sure. I appreciated your comments on my deck, hope this helps.
On the note of card draw, keep in mind that this deck is relatively young. I have a tendency to work through multiple renditions of a deck and play-test options thoroughly before I really cut cards out. I've been thinking about those spells lately, but Read the Bones was one I was already strongly considering (or something like Night's Whisper, given it's cmc of 2). The key here was I wanted to be flexible and adaptable: a card like Pull from Tomorrow is preferable for me because it scales with the game and I can play it at Instant speed. The other reason? My meta is diverse, and between combo, aggro, or the occasional voltron deck if I do not have mana open early, I may not live very long.
The first few iterations actually utilized wheels more frequently, but that got scrapped. My card quality doesn't match that of my opponent's on average (I kept Windfall more for fun and a bit of disruption, truthfully). The Wharf is a fair consideration (if only because it possibly makes a free body, though it is a bit of a nonbo with SG). Draw is something I'm working on, slowly, trying to find the ones that feel best with the deck.
Oh, I'm aware. Had a Damia, Sage of Stone Big Mana Mill deck where Aberration did serious work. My intent was to use mill the same way - the real problem with Aberration definitely isn't my personal lack of wipes; it's how prevalent they are in my area and how willing people are to use them on a perceived threat. Just last weekend, I played a game where 10 wraths were played (between all players)... plus an attempted Armageddon. Trust me when I say though that as much as I'd love to play it - it really hasn't been working. Maybe I'll try again in the future, but I'll have to see.
Siren Stormtamer and Mausoleum Wanderer in particular have been great I find; people are either incredibly wary of them, or completely forget they're there, even in plain sight. It makes for great "gotcha" moments. They make people nervous to touch my God, or steal my things.
Cursecatcher is coming out, though. Wanderer at least represents a better counter later, but Cursecatcher usually flops.
As I said earlier, I have a fairly diverse meta and any deck you can think of is probably represented (minus cEDH). As a longtime player of UB, we're not known for having the most explosive starts or the greatest early-game defense. An aggro deck, or even attacks of opportunity, can really whittle my life total badly before I even get into the game (there have been many times I lost because my life total fell beneath 20 in the first few turns). Admittedly, I was partially inspired to build SG this way by peeking at Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Wydwen, the Biting Gale, because the former proves how powerful small utility creatures can be and the latter emphasizes instant-speed interaction (hence, a fair number of flash creatures).
But The Scarab God has it's own strengths to add to those, I felt. I can take small, evasive creatures and make them larger. I can reuse my interactive creatures for added disruption, and still at instant speed. It's definitely more of a midrange-control approach: I'm in no rush to pump out Eternalized creatures, but happy to flood the board and deter my opponents with interaction (and some politics, when opportunity strikes). I take my time, apply pressure when needed, and let opponents solve my problems for me. The consistency our God provides makes it hard on the rest of the table once it really gets going.
But as a last point on the cmc: my thought process was that if I was going to take dorks and make them big, it helped ensure my mana was always open. If I have six mana and play a two-drop, I can keep one activation of SG up at all times. Even if I just get a Dusk Legion Zealot at End of Turn, it helps keep everyone on their toes.
You're not wrong. People wisen up quickly though and find other ways to prevent the God landing, though. The Scarab God naturally lends itself to the late-game, but adding to my previous response, I cannot emphasize enough how important the fact that the activated ability is Instant speed. Simply being a U deck holding up mana can deter aggression. And if you choose not to counter or respond to anything, simply reanimate something into a 4/4. But all that means nothing if we can't keep the God in play. Plenty of decks can go wider, faster. And ramp so much harder. I can't hope to compete with them in those aspects - only keep them under control while my army builds itself.
I was looking into adding more wipes, regardless. I originally cut Life's Finale from my preliminary testing, but it is worth another shot. I was also considering Curse of the Swine already, because it fits in with my critera of "scales with the game" and while it does exile the creatures it targets, it can almost function as a one-sided wrath with enough mana. As you can probably guess, I like having options. So UU1: Exile a creature isn't awful if you desperately need it.
I noted in my "cutting block" that I would be swapping out Dimir Infiltrator with a Muddle the Mixture at my earliest convenience. Muddle is interaction whereas Infiltrator is just a bad sorcery-speed tutor. I already own a Mystical Tutor I'm not using, so I'll take your word on that one and try it out.
Actually just picked up another Chupacapra for this deck; those two were on my 'tryouts' list for a while.
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate the input. Hopefully this is the beginning of a long and fruitful discussion about Scarab God. I definitely feel like he was overshadowed badly by Locust God on release, and aside from being put into the 99 of a few decks, I haven't seen him much.
Given what you said, perhaps Propaganda would work for you. Nice and cheap and really deters the early aggression. Dissipation field can play a similar role. Also Grave pact if you've got the $ for it. With your 33 creatures cheap creatures, you can always have something up to block with to scare off opponents. Unless it encourages them to attack you because they want other opponents creatures to die.
You may find a nice Entomb, Final Parting and Vengeful Pharaoh addition to be useful. Just throw that in the yard to scare off big swings towards you. As a bonus, it's already a zombie with decent stats.
I look forward to bettering our decks and sharing our experiences together!
Been considering trimming the creatures a little, anyway. I like Propaganda, but I also like advancing the board state rather than stalling it, depending.
Mm, Entomb is something I've considered if I decide to add the Laboratory Maniac + Mirror-Mad Phantasm combo. Because honestly? There aren't that many cards I'd like to tutor into my graveyard right now. Final Parting fits better, and I have a few copies laying around, the part that irks me is the 5cmc: remember that since I like playing with interaction, spending 4+ mana on my turn is shields down typically. Which isn't to say it's impossible, just that it makes me nervous lol
Also... Much as I love Vengeful Pharaoh, why? SG won't want to reanimate it, and it can mess with my draws. Also, note that it isn't a 'may' ability. If they attack, it will trigger whether you want it to or not.
I keep envisioning how your games are different than mine. I realized that you probably have many more targets for the scarab god early on. If people are constantly boardwiping and attacking in early, the yards will fill up fast. I can see how you'd rather start reanimating creatures than trying to do fancy pants slower style play.
In my meta, the yards will stay empty of creatures, usually until I boardwipe or get a mill card. Also, my deck has a higher curver, so I'd rather play a good 5 or 6 drop creature before my god ever comes out. Make my opponents deal with consuming aberration or wurmcoil engine before the god hits the field. I can see how being able to just start reanimating creatures turn 5/6 would be better for you, as you're more likely to already have some nice targets for it.
Mikaeus the unhallowed is pretty freaking amazing in this deck. I know I know, 6 mana. However, I believe him to be the best creature in my deck. Expensive $$ also. Definitely worth picking one up through trade or saving up for it eventually. We have so many good etb effects, this guy allows us to get to have the creature out 3 times instead of 2. Just imagine playing Masoleum wanderer with this guy out. You can sac. the wanderer to counter a spell unless the pay 2, then resac. it for the same spell to make it cost a total of 5 extra. Then, you can still reanimate it later with the god. Mulldrifter becomes 6 cards eventually if you can chump with it. Ravenous chupacabra+Mikaeus+ ashnod's altar? play chupa, kill creature, sac. it for mana, kill another creature, sac. it again, use two of the floating mana to reanimate with the god, kill another creature. You did that by paying 6 mana and you have 2 colorless floating left over. You are left with a 5/5 chupacabra on the field. He can do crazy things.
You can also throw in the Triskelion combo with mikaeus, though the lab. maniac/phantasm combo might be better.
Hmm, we do have a few people who like to cheat Eldrazi in (namely, an Animar, Soul of Elements and Rakdos, Lord of Riots) and punch faces in fast. A good word to describe my meta is 'cautious': the most common colors seems to be green, black, then a toss up between blue and white. A lot of recursion, targeted removal, counters, and wipes depending on the decks (which steadily fill graves). SG disrupts the normal flow of the game by being something of a natural graveyard deterrent, while also turning virtually any dumb utility creature into a solid 4/4.
Mikaeus is definitely something to consider if I had enough time to get a big turn together. The problem is keeping those creatures I want to recur in play, most times. I actually tend to use Mulldrifter as a recurrable Divination with a body.
One card that I wasn't terribly impressed with last night was Monastery Siege. Maybe it was because I chose Dragons and my opponents were using abilites (not spells) to mess with me, but it just didn't feel like it was doing much.
Finally, I'm starting to see that the dedicated mill spells like Consuming Aberration and Phenax might actually not be necessary. Maybe it was the abundance of Avenger of Zendikars on the table, but I was able to get enough bodies into the yards just by playing removal spells.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Thankfully, everyone I know is fine with proxies, so it doesn't hurt me to try it I suppose. I'll be spending some time this weekend to clean up my initial post and update the decklist with my current changes.
Oh, definitely. In the theoretical stages of the deck they seem fantastic, but you have to remember that everything is magical Christmas land at that point. Usually they don't live long, aren't allowed to touch down, or end up being a dead card because they don't immediately impact the board.
I remember the other board wipe I wanted to add now - Toxic Deluge.
If you want/need another of these effects, Black Sun’s Zenith was also excellent for me, and you can find it with Spellseeker.
Edit: if you want a creature wrath, I’m gonna try Kagemaro, First to Suffer.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Anyone else looking at Vedalken Orrery? I think this card particularly shines in this deck. Especially in my build, where I run a lot of boardwipes and removal on a stick creatures. Those are much, MUCH better at instant speed.
I'm considering adding Meteor Golem to have something to deal with enchantments et. I really don't like it's cost though.
As far as mill goes, my deck is running Dread Summons, Altar of the Brood and consuming aberration at this point. Altar is just too cheap and effective not to play. Can regularly mill two cards per opponent on our turn. Messes with vampiric tutor, Sensei's divining top and the like. Dread summons I like to play late game when my opponents are running low on cards. Can also be good to get a quick board presence if you have enough mana after your wipe. I find if you cast this for 6-7 mana you end up with a really decent number of zombies for the mana spent. Plus all those extra targets in the yard.
I still have to order consuming aberration and test it. However, this looks good mid game in that you could cast this and maybe another cheap spell to start them milling. I find by turn 4/5 there are at least a few cards in the yard. If it survives a full turn cycle, I would stand a good chance of casting two more spells on the same turn and mill away. Now that dude is giant, and has found me a ton of targets for the God. That's theoretically at least, but my meta seems to be slower than yours.
I'm starting to hedge this deck more and more toward a combo deck (Mikaeus the unhallowed and Triskelion). My meta finally seems ready for it, especially if I take it easy on 'em combo wise. My deck already has some tutors that will help me fetch these. Mikaeus can be put into the 'yard and still have the combo work, but triskelion must go into hand.
I'm considering trophy mage as an addition to my list which already has Wurmcoil engine and triskelion as targets. Additionally, I could add in the Meteor Golem to really fill out the package. The mage should stand me a really good chance of netting 2 targets if I get a chance to reanimate him. This would not only make the combo stronger, but makes the deck more resilient in having a fetchable answer to enchantments, planeswalkers, and artifacts.
With all of the tutors I'm running, the combo should come together fairly easily, though not too quickly. I look at this like "combo deck light." It will take a a lot of mana and cards to pull off, but it can happen somewhat regularly given the lengths of my meta's games. My meta doesn't like the idea of combo decks in edh. Given this is more of a secondary win condition, and I can always choose not to go for my combo if people get too annoyed, it seems worth a shot.
I already have my "It costs 12 mana and almost always 2 turns!" defense ready in case of *****ing!
P.S. If you don't have Trinket Mage alongside Sol Ring, Skullclamp and possibly Altar of the Brood, you should check your priorities. For 5 mana you can play trinket mage, search for skullclamp, equip clamp, draw two cards and have trinket mage in the 'yard ready to find you an altar of the brood. Clamp is value in this deck.
Needle Specter is a monster when it is eternalized and not answered quickly as it quickly ensures that your opponents are playing hellbent until it is dealt with.
Gilded Drake is an easy way of stealing someone else's best creature and then being able to reuse this ability is very strong.
Venser, Shaper Savant is also instant speed removal, both from the hand and from the graveyard.
The only zombie I run is Graveborn Muse as it is a card advantage engine even without additional zombies. Grave Titan is also very helpful.
Helm of the Host is also solid, but these colors don't exactly lend themselves to having an abundance of mana, and that can be a problem sometimes. It's still fine, but it's a lot more viable in green-based decks with enough mana to reliably make it work.
Do you mean Treasure Mage? If so, he's really only viable in non-black decks that don't have as many tutor options. I do like Mikaeus in this type of deck based solely on the number of ETB creatures you are bound to be running.
Trinket Mage is a 2/2, so you would need to already have a sac outlet in order to Clamp it and draw two right away. It's an okay card...having access to multiple copies of your best and cheapest artifacts is fine, but not a game-changer.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
When it comes to Vedalken Orrery/Leyline of Anticipation, you really can't go wrong - as long as you feel you afford to take a turn off to play either. If you aren't under imminent threat of death they transform the game and make everything so much more powerful (especially when combined with something like, say, As Foretold). Personally, haven't tried it in my SG yet simply because I only own one and I don't know if I can afford that single, do-nothing turn without getting it either a) blown to hell or b) my face beaten in. They're still fantastic.
My only big problem with Helm of the Host - which I've gotta agree is a sweet card - is the initial investment. I intend on including it in a Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer list later on because of how insane it gets with him, but 9 mana to cast + equip in one turn isn't a small amount. You can kick a Rite of Replication for the same amount of mana, as a good example.
Regardling the Kagemaro, First to Suffer, keep us updated! I considered it a while ago but wasn't convinced by theory - I average 3-5 cards in hand most games, and while 5 might kill most creatures, I wouldn't want to risk it being dead or pointless.
@Meteor Golem. As far as our options go for enchantment and artifact removal in UB, it's great. As long as you can afford to play it. It might be more at home in a traditional-styled reanimator version, where there are methods other than just our commander to recur it.
On the topic of the Mage Cycle (Trinket, Trophy, and Treasure) - I think they're fine additions, but you might need the deck to be skewed towards artifacts for maximum value. I initially started using Trinket and Trophy to search for artifact lands or rocks as a form of recurrable ramp, but those proved too slow and low-impact for me, personally. Better to add more actual card draw, and keep less greedy hands. Spellseeker is superior to them overall, I feel, given the abundance of good targets (and even just convenient, like a counterspell).
and thanks for mentioning Graveborn Muse, paragon, I've been considering replacing Twilight Prophet with it lately simply because it'd translate to an extra 3-4 cards on average (for myself at least).
Out of curiosity, has anyone else had problems maintaining a healthy life total? Aside from Garry, I don't have much lifegain included in the deck, so I can find myself dangerously low fairly quickly.
Also, out of curiosity, why are you running Deathbringer Regent? At best, it is a 7 mana board wipe that cannot be recurred with The Scarab God.
Hmm. Personally, I enjoy resource-denial strategies like Discard, but I find I prefer to build around it for a deck or include one or two powerful pieces for that added surprise factor. Sadistic Hypnotist is a great example; sac a few creatures to wipe hands, when the opportunity presents itself. Fair enough though.
Deathbringer Regent was a recent include I wanted to test: For me, it is essentially always a boardwipe that leaves a large, flying body behind. If it ends up in the graveyard for any reason (milled/discarded/dies), it's another reanimation target for SG - it isn't about getting a second wipe, just ensuring I have a neutral target. I like to leave up mana and do tricks at instant speed - sometimes I'll wait on Eternalizing the better targets, simply because I don't need them yet, just another 4/4 body. Something like Necromantic Selection may be better for those purposes, when I think about it, but I also dislike triple black pips.
Fair enough. Board wipe wise, I run Damnation, Cyclonic Rift, Evacuation, Toxic Deluge, Death Cloud, and a discard and Noetic Scales combination.
A few of the non-discard creatures that I am running that I didn't see in your list that I run and am very happy with (the specter package on my end need to be reworked):
One card I have been very happy with is Imprisoned in the Moon which deals with a problematic commander for a significant chunk of time.
Whoops, I forgot it's a 2/2. I did mean Treasure Mage, not trophy mage. Thanks.
Now, I do have to defend the trinket mage and sol ring/skullclamp/altar of the brood package. Also: Sensei's Divining Top! Being able to search for a sol ring on turn 3 IS A HUGE GAME CHANGER. Sol ring is arguably one of the most powerful cards in EDH. It's still a game changer later on. Skullclamp is incredibly good too in this creature based deck. It's harder to find a better draw rate than 2 cards for 2 mana that becomes 2 cards for 1 mana the second time you use it. Yes, your creature has to die. Just block with it or wait until the next boardwipe. If you opponent decides not to attack you because they are afraid of you drawing 2 cards and attack someone else, clamp still did something nice for you. Altar of the brood is just gravy and would only search for it if I didn't have the other two.
Are you intentionally avoiding playing sol ring Grimoire? In that case Trinket mage might not be worth it, but for anyone running the ring it seems incredible.
On Deathbringer Regent: I used to run him. I found that I actually couldn't use it as much as I wanted because I would often have more creatures than my opponents late game. I switched it out for Reiver Demon. Then switched out Reiver demon after I put in some better tutors to find Damnation, Life's finale. I also put in spell seeker which can find you Curse of the swine or cyclonic rift. I found I didn't really need creature based boardwipes after that. I could see regent being a better card if you tend to play larger 5+ player games.
imPrisoned in the moon!!! This could help me take care of that pesky Jeleva deck that's been beating me. I also like Arena of the Ancients. It gets around hexproof and will lock down all commanders eventually (Or turn them into a permanent blocker at least if someone plays their commander after it's on the board.) Also, our commander does so much more that attacking/blocking we still get lots of value out of it even if it's tapped.
My life total is usually fine as most games I get access to a boardwipe fairly quickly if I want to.
If you are having problems with life, Whip of Erebos and Basilisk Collar can be useful. Exsanguinate is also a fine option. Basilisk collar is great because it deters attacks as well as gaining life. Especially good in a deck with a lot of evasion. Also searchable with Trinket Mage
If your life total is going down the usual way, through attacking, those blue enchantments/deathtouch stuff will deter opponents from attacking you. Propaganda and Dissipation field were mentioned before I believe. Keep in mind the subtlety of shifting attacks away from you. If two opponents attack another opponent instead of you, that is an amazing advantage. Not only did you avoid losing life, someone else either has to lose life or creatures instead. Those cards have paid for themselves in value at that point, and will probably continue to accrue more. It's hard to notice someone not attacking you, but trust me, they won't because of these cards multiple times throughout the game. (Watch out for dissipation field if your meta is full of etb abilities on evasive creatures.)
I think your deck might get better by switching out some of that instant speed removal with a board wipe or two more. Maybe a bit more ramp to make sure you can play those boardwipes in a timely manner.
Maybe I'm crazy, but is Death Baron worth considering for you? Perhaps it's too slow if you find it's hard to keep another zombie on the field. On the other hand, you might be able to ambush an attacker directed at you with deathtouch. Also making all of the zombies 5/5 instead of 4/4 isn't too shabby either. Helps with evasive damage and blocking toughness. It's a bit out there, but if your losing life due to many attacks, it could help.
I've been considering Imprisoned in the Moon for a little while now, another way to deal with off-color or indestructible threats.
I'd love to play Gilded Drake. It's a cheap, sorcery-speed (most of the time) way of dealing with large threats. That price tag, tho. I am operating under something of a budget, so I wouldn't be getting one anytime soon.
Solemn and Venser are also things I've been considering for a while; I've just been hesitant to raise the cmc of the deck.
I am interested in knowing if you've posted your Discard-based list online anywhere?
Propaganda is a stronger consideration recently. My usual approach to deckbuilding (working through iterations and identifying weakness), especially in edh, is that I always play a set number of games and take notes about how things progress: in my last ten games, I've won four. But of those I lost, I was against aggressive, attack-oriented decks (Atarka, Lathliss, RG Omnath, Edgar, etc). Too much damage too quickly. Before I throw Whip in (because it's in too many decks I enjoy already), I'll try Propaganda and/or No Mercy, because attacking me incurs a consequence with the latter. Koskun Falls is an option too, since I usually have dorks out.
Not sure if I can agree with the Basilisk Collar, though. Perhaps it's just my Grixis shining through, but I'm usually not a fan of equipment unless it synergizes naturally... or has flavor reasons, whichever..
As far as ramp goes, I may just relent and add sol ring. much as I hate the damned thing.
The boardwipe ratio is something I'm still working on: I prefer them to be cheap, or provide an advantage.
As far as Death Baron is concerned, I do think it could have a place in Scarab God - but moreso when you already have a strong Zombie basis. My first two iterations of the deck kept a Zombie sub-theme, and I included it, but it never had quite the impact I wanted unless I'd already swarmed the board. But with the current list, I've been thinking lately about pulling Lich Lord of Unx out; the last piece of zombie synergy in the deck. Too slow, too low impact without other zombie synergies.
My meta is only fast in the sense that there is a wide variety of decks, and people enjoy playing red - lots of damage and big combat swings. I've already had a reputation as a preferred control player, so there is a tendency to punch me first (especially among my friends). Sometimes, I'll sit down and the entire table will be blue; other-times (like last night), I'll be the only blue player at a table with 3 red decks. It's why I'm aiming for a middle-ground with this deck, it feels.