So, obviously Mana Crypt is an incredibly strong card. Is it warranted when this list is slowed down, or does the life loss start to take a toll? I've avoided it outside of my competitive lists for this reason, and I was just wondering if a Mox Diamond or a Chrome Mox may be appropriate in its place, or if you think the acceleration outpaces and potential life loss?
I mean it can give you potential starts like, Mana Crypt, land, play Sheltered Aerie first turn. Second turn play a land, cast Estrid, the Masked, then [+2] to untap that land and then have another 3 mana available. And this this not a far fetched play as you have so many of these enchant lands.
As far as taking damaage, I mean I've played a lot of commander in my time, and there have been some epic games that have come down to Mana Crypt flips for the literally win or loss. But overall the number of games you win off the back of a Sol Ring or Mana Crypt are too enumerable compared with life loss.
Vintage artifact hate decks, even run Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, just so that they can cast a Null Rod first turn. That's just how good they are, to even just be about casting the hate cards
However I totally understand not wanting to run it in this particular deck, and a mana creature can serve you better potentially, so it's not incorrect to leave it out.
Ok, this deck is awesome. I mean i really loved the idea with Life from the Loam. I bought this precon as my first paper Commander, made a little changes and i really enjoyed it. I'm just starting my adventure with upgrading this deck and making it the beast. I want to focus more on prisoning my opponents, doing tokens and maybe hugging them a little. I want also have a stron win-condition combos like with Solemnity + Decree of Silence / Phyrexian Unlife and Chain Veil. Do you have any suggestions, cards i have to look at first? I'm not smiling on and idea of buying Doubling Season, maybe in a future.
I think there are currently not really enough ways to use it.
Urban Burgeoning seems to be the only card that you could get more value with it. I think if you wanted to go down that track, then you can look at Seedborn Muse and even perhaps Awakening.
But the thing is that this isn't really a reactive or interactive deck, so needing to be untapped during opponents turns isn't really necessary. The only thing you do is to get extra time on avoiding removal.
Plus there is already plenty of mana to spend on the Urban Burgeoning with your cycling lands. Once get get Life from the Loam going you'll probably end up spending the mana each turn on cycling.
Ok, this deck is awesome. I mean i really loved the idea with Life from the Loam. I bought this precon as my first paper Commander, made a little changes and i really enjoyed it. I'm just starting my adventure with upgrading this deck and making it the beast. I want to focus more on prisoning my opponents, doing tokens and maybe hugging them a little. I want also have a stron win-condition combos like with Solemnity + Decree of Silence / Phyrexian Unlife and Chain Veil. Do you have any suggestions, cards i have to look at first? I'm not smiling on and idea of buying Doubling Season, maybe in a future.
Another strong win condition is Squirrel Nest and Earthcraft. But you need the basic land base to support it, as the Squirrel Nest needs to go on a basic land in order to get infinite 1/1 creatures.
Currently my deck only has 1 Forest so this is nowhere near being able to be a combo for me. But if you are playing a lot of basics, then this is strong.
The reason is that Squirrel Nest even without the combo, is just another enchant land, so you get the untap bonuses from Estrid, as well as potentially creating a couple of blockers per turn.
Hey there Darren. Your list inspired me to build Estrid and I like what you're doing here. I figure I would post my deck to share and see what Estrid players think about it. If you dont want other decks discussed/posted here just let me know.
The thing I like most about the forums is sharing ideas and lists. It helps me to get inspired and out of my normal box of thinking, so of course I like it when people posts their lists
The Future Sight is a spicy one. I find the bottleneck with that card is lands on top of library, so it is possible that you could tweak things out a little more with extra fetch lands, Arid Mesa, Marsh Flats, Krosan Verge.
36 lands is quite a bit with so many Enchant lands for extra mana. I feel like you'd be OK with shaving a few, as there is a lot of draw cards in your deck, so flooding is more like than screw by quite a margin. This will help with getting a little bit more consistency out of Future Sight. I'm all about getting those few inches out of cards
I added Marsh Flats and I want to add more fetches. I just need to dig around in my collection to see where my Arid Mesa and Krosan Verge are.
What do you think about cutting Sol Ring in favor of Stony Silence?
I do think that Stony Silence should be run period in this type of deck.
Also I think a potentially good a source of mana is Arbor Elf in your deck, as it can untap enchanted lands for even more mana.
You have 21 sources for Forests in the deck. My current list only has 16 Forest sources, so personally would be a bit dubious supporting it.
Worth a think about anyway as a sort of compromise for removing a Sol Ring.
I think you can straight up cut a lands for either Arbor Elf, Noble Hierarch or Bird of Paradise, as a way of getting a bit more speed from your deck.
I made these changes mostly due to some of your advice darren. Femeref Enchantress was pretty excellent against the enchantment wraths midgame drawing me six cards. I wasn't running this before as I didn't own one but I decided to pick one up once I fell in love with the deck. I cut Thassa for it as she is one of the weaker card advantage engines I had.
I wasn't able to get the Arbor Elf nut draws in a real game yet. It has been quite good in goldfishing with either Utopia Sprawl or Wild Growth. I cut Refuge for the Elf as it doesn't allow us to cast it or use it so I figured it was the weakest utility land.
I think having more removal is better than Estrids Invocation doubling up on something. Imprisoned in the Moon is good against commanders as well. I haven't missed Invocation and Imprisoned in the Moon/Song of the Dryads have both been very useful so far.
I think Sea of Clouds is better than Island is most cases. I'm running a good amount of basics as it stands.
Having more fetches is something I really want. I did notice every time I get Future Sight into play I wish I could shuffle.
I'm still on the fence about cutting Sol Ring. Im at the point where I wonder if I could cut a land? I always feel sketchy cutting lands or cards like Sol Ring as I feel like there is a fine balance here. I do get flooded sometimes. But I also like hitting all my land drops and maximizing Exploration when I draw it.
Imprisoned in the Moon and even Darksteel Mutation can have some very nasty effects for opponents. I've always been a little disappointed that Imprisoned in the Moon doesn't hit artifacts or enchantments. Like the planeswalker part of it has never cropped up for me, and using it on a land is going to be rare, except for Cabal Coffer, because opponents can still tap it for mana. So ultimately it feels like another Darksteel Mutation in the fact that it's essentially a creature you are targeting, granted you normally want to do a commander.
The reason I don't run Femeref Enchantress is because the deck is based around Estrid's [-7] ability to get back enchantments from graveyards anyway, so in theory a board wipe can be recovered from. I just find that it's very situational whether you get value from her. Casting her and not getting any return for a bunch of turns does feel a bit of a wasted spell a lot of the time. I think if the deck was geared around cards that naturally go to the graveyard, like Seal of Cleansing, Aura of Silence, then I'd be more inclined to find a slot.
As far as Sol Ring or Mana Crypt, I mean they are the most broken cards in Commander and arguably all of Multiplayer Magic. Black Lotus would be good in Commander, but in multiplayer games, you do want continuous mana, and so Sol Ring is just a more powerful card for the course of games.
I guess what I'm getting at is even though you can see that my deck is one of the few decks that might get away with not playing these cards, they are still too powerful an effect not to. Turn one Sol Ring, with so many enchant lands that cost 3 mana, means that I can enchant a land and then tap that land for probably two mana in the same turn. So yeah don't feel bad about cutting a land for it.
I thought you used to run Femeref Enchantress, did you cut it?
No I never had her in the deck. I've played enchantress decks before and have always been less than satisfied with her. There are more chances that you run into mass creature removal than you do mass enchantment removal. I'd say she has a bout a 50/50 chance of getting a return on investment, and personally I just have better cards to run imo. That means that you have games where you just run her out for no gain (actual loss). But I don't fault anybody for running her, especially as I say if you can setup your own going to graveyard advantages.
Usually enchantments are only going away if a multiple-card-type nuke happens (e.g. Nevinyrral's Disk, Planar Cleansing, Akroma's Vengeance)... or you get rid of them yourself. Without much in the way of sac outlets, Femeref Enchantress ends up being a 1/2 for GW most of the time, maybe drawing you a card off of Unbridled Growth once in a while and be a combo for +2 cards a turn as long as your graveyard has no other enchantments worth picking up if you also have Starfield. But most of the time you'll just sit there asking yourself why this dumb thing is worth as much money as it is.
When it works it's a huge burst of card draw! Most of the time it won't, though.
I'm considering running one because I also want to run sac outlets + Parallax Tide and Parallax Wave, but I'd have to decide what else I'm doing to see if that's worth it, since I, um, haven't finished the deck yet.
Decided to straight up swap Unbridled Growth for Urban Utopia from Guilds of Ravinca. Although Unbridled Growth does cost one less mana, you have to sacrifice it to get the draw, where as Urban Utopia you get an immediate replacement. They both are the same as not actually providing extra mana, just color fixing and really just mainly for Estrids [+2] to garner untapped lands.
Have you ever thought of adding in the flash rector package? I have been running a similar list but with tuvasa and instead of your lands matter package, I have the flash rector package as my main win con. The deck is pretty versatile and can sit back and play slower or just have insane wins with rector. The main win con is sac rector into omniscience with a couple of enchantresses out. Then eventually draw into attunement and draw my whole deck until I find eternal witness plus winds of rebuke and then mill everyone and take infinite turns with nexus of fate.
Have you ever thought of adding in the flash rector package? I have been running a similar list but with tuvasa and instead of your lands matter package, I have the flash rector package as my main win con. The deck is pretty versatile and can sit back and play slower or just have insane wins with rector. The main win con is sac rector into omniscience with a couple of enchantresses out. Then eventually draw into attunement and draw my whole deck until I find eternal witness plus winds of rebuke and then mill everyone and take infinite turns with nexus of fate.
You definitely can't go wrong putting an Academy Rector in any enchantment deck and it's almost impossible to be too upset over having an Omniscience in a deck that is looking to chain off spells and draws.
The Academy Rector is also a little bit more effective in planeswalker decks, as it forces people to attack into you. Also I've used Academy Rector as simply a way to get a must need answer by table-talking to an opponent to kill it so I could get a card like Song of the Dryads to nullify another opponent's card. Like it's not just a combo card.
Estrid, Replenish or Starfield of Nyx ability to cheat large enchantments into play is another good reason to run Omniscience. Plus for my particular deck, I do have some other bomb enchantments I can put into play if Omniscience is in my hand or graveyard at the time the Rector dies. If it's in my graveyard I have the option of Starfield of Nyx to get it into play next turn anyway. Or I'm pretty happy about New Perspectives, the deck is amazing at getting the cycling aspect going with the deck. If all else fails even Eidolon of Blossoms tends be enough to get you started.
I've been pretty disappointed by Herald of the Pantheon, the cost reduction is a bit blah when compared to running the risk of another creature and life gain isn't really that important. I would prefer to run Academy Rector as a creature, as you're quite happy for it to die.
Austere Command can be a brilliant answer for a lot of game states, but if I'm going to be more combo orientated, then it's better to replace an expensive card that's not particularly pro-active to the deck synergies.
Hi, im following your updates about this list from a lot of time! and im in love with estrid i wanted to ask you if you may know which cards replace if i wanted to play this list for 1v1 ( i guess just sylvan library and winter orb are banned in 1v1). and also how you feel about this list in a 1v1 games. thanks!
Hi. I used to play 1vs1 a little bit when they first introduced it on Magic Online, but haven't played for ages.
First of all planeswalkers are more powerful in duels. They are easier to protect, because you only have to deal with one players set of creatures. So planeswalker commander do become better.
The difference between 1vs1 and multiplayer is that usually multiplayer is a little bit more battle-cruiser. Meaning that spells usually cost more, but do more powerful things. The reason is that you have to be casting spells which have a higher impact. In duels spells need to be a bit more cost efficient as you have lower life totals and you are dealing with direct pressure from a single player.
This Estrid deck is fairly insular, meaning that it's just looking to do it's own thing and not interact with what opponents are doing too much.
Unfortunately you don't have as much time to setup the whole Life from the Loam package with cycling lands, as in general this might be a bit slow for 1vs1. In multiplayer you normally have a bit more time to set this up and be patient with it.
Any interaction, like removal is a lot better in 1vs1. In multiplayer, any removal can be card disadvantage to you and the player you're targeting, and other players are then up some resources, because cards have been used and didn't have to spend any time on the interactions. So if that makes sense when spot removal is used, for a couple of opponents the interaction was a 2-for-0. Two cards removed for zero interaction.
Expect more low to the ground creatures, so aggressive decks look to pressure you early. I think more creature removal vs artifact/enchantment would be better.
Artifacts and enchantments are normally more powerful in multiplayer, because some of the effects are high impact and have inbuilt renewal value. In duels a lot more emphasis is on creatures as they can pressure life totals better.
So what changes would I make?
I would removed some of the slightly slower cycling lands for untapped lands, so the deck is a little quicker.
I'd also add in more removal and general interaction.
There are probably more cards I'd add, but I'm going off the top of my head as much as possible, would need to really think about it more, but hopefully this gives you a clear direction on the differences. You just don't have the same amount of time to setup in duels, the pressure is immediate and always directed at you. So although things like Shalai, Voice of Plenty and Privileged Position are great for protection in multiplayer because there are literally more spells that can be used to target (more players), in duels you're not always going to have time for cards like this.
[EDIT]
You asked me how I felt about it in 1vs1. Well I don't think it would match up all that well against control decks. There are a lot of cards that don't do a lot on their own. So the enchant lands although produce a lot of mana, are not pressuring opponents. Mana ramp is more in the realm of multiplayer. It's much harder to target ALL the relevant spells in multiplayer, where as in duels you can make sure you only stop the spells that really matter.
In this decks case, it's mainly the draw engine itself, with cards like Argothian Enchantress, Enchantress's Presence, etc. If they can stop these and Estrid herself from hitting or being on the table for long, then the deck does have a lot of cards that do not impact the opponent much.
But on the other hand it is a combo deck, and you can just go off, drawing your deck and having vast amounts of mana. So against mid-range decks, you'd do pretty well.
Against aggressive decks, you might have to get a bit lucky and draw into a Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God early, or just be quicker with your combo engine than they are.
Honestly it's a little hard for me to know unless I actually tried a version in 1vs1.
I was not aware there were that many Land Enchant cards and I hadn't even considered that direction when I made this (I finally was able to pick up a Serra's Sanctum so making a Heliod deck to play around with followed by this seemed the thing to do, may follow that up with some Esper or who knows what next)
I built this lady planning to abuse The Chain Veil now with a land that can tap for a lot of mana and with that came other walkers and with all of that came this list.
I wonder if Land Enchantments would be superior to Mana Dorks in this case it feels like each choice can very greatly influence what the rest of the deck becomes.
I was not aware there were that many Land Enchant cards and I hadn't even considered that direction when I made this (I finally was able to pick up a Serra's Sanctum so making a Heliod deck to play around with followed by this seemed the thing to do, may follow that up with some Esper or who knows what next)
I built this lady planning to abuse The Chain Veil now with a land that can tap for a lot of mana and with that came other walkers and with all of that came this list.
I wonder if Land Enchantments would be superior to Mana Dorks in this case it feels like each choice can very greatly influence what the rest of the deck becomes.
You can of course use the enchant lands to produce the 4 for the The Chain Veil, so really if you were looking to do this you should definitely play enchant lands over mana dorks.
For example if you have a Wild Growth and Gift of Paradise on two different lands, then you be able to go infinite with The Chain Veil and Estrid, the Masked.
With only 12 creatures in the deck, the Survival of the Fittest is looking pretty inconsistent as well.
Green Sun's Zenith would realistically need to be cut as well, even if it can get Eidolon of Blossoms. This is a bit limited once mana creatures are gone.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is a little unusual that if it get's dredged from Life from the Loam, then you'll end up shuffling your library, undoing all your work to setup your graveyard for you graveyard matters cards.
The Stony Silence will shut down The Chain Veil, which is one of the reasons I decided not to run the Veil. But it's fine being a risk as it's just so powerful in a deck that doesn't run any other artifacts.
I tend to like playing with fire when I build EDH decks and while some of those cards (Rest in Peace & Humility & Stony Silence in particular) can disrupt a portion of what I am doing what they do to keeping me alive and not dying to what I play against becomes all the more important. I also don't have a problem holding onto said cards if my board is currently superior to an opponents in their regard, or using an Aura Shards later in the game to remove them, which is a card that makes both GSZ and the mana dorks a useful draw at more points of the game than the early one. The Kozilek was there more as to be thought of as GY protection rather than GY removal in that I have pitched him to Survival in response to the kinds of cards being talked about (or discarded him / sacrificed to Greater Good when that was in the deck.\\
Also the best form of creatures in a deck like this is the God and his legion of clerics.
I have moved on from this deck to something 4 color and hopefully that can make even more use out of the Sanctum we shall see, it seems rather devious and needed R to truly get off the ground.
I have moved on from this deck to something 4 color and hopefully that can make even more use out of the Sanctum we shall see, it seems rather devious and needed R to truly get off the ground.
If Jeskai is part of your color pie then I recommend Wild Research as a spicy enchantment fuel card. If you can back this up with Starfield of Nyx, then you get to search for any enchantment and actually hope it gets discarded.
As far as taking damaage, I mean I've played a lot of commander in my time, and there have been some epic games that have come down to Mana Crypt flips for the literally win or loss. But overall the number of games you win off the back of a Sol Ring or Mana Crypt are too enumerable compared with life loss.
Vintage artifact hate decks, even run Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, just so that they can cast a Null Rod first turn. That's just how good they are, to even just be about casting the hate cards
However I totally understand not wanting to run it in this particular deck, and a mana creature can serve you better potentially, so it's not incorrect to leave it out.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Urban Burgeoning seems to be the only card that you could get more value with it. I think if you wanted to go down that track, then you can look at Seedborn Muse and even perhaps Awakening.
But the thing is that this isn't really a reactive or interactive deck, so needing to be untapped during opponents turns isn't really necessary. The only thing you do is to get extra time on avoiding removal.
Plus there is already plenty of mana to spend on the Urban Burgeoning with your cycling lands. Once get get Life from the Loam going you'll probably end up spending the mana each turn on cycling.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Currently my deck only has 1 Forest so this is nowhere near being able to be a combo for me. But if you are playing a lot of basics, then this is strong.
The reason is that Squirrel Nest even without the combo, is just another enchant land, so you get the untap bonuses from Estrid, as well as potentially creating a couple of blockers per turn.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
1 Estrid, the Masked
Artifacts:
1 Sol Ring
Instants:
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Swan Song
1 Arcane Denial
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Negate
Sorceries:
1 Replenish
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Recurring Insight
Creatures:
1 Argothian Enchantress
1 Herald of the Pantheon
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Mesa Enchantress
1 Satyr Enchantress
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Tuvasa the Sunlit
1 Verduran Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Enchantments:
1 Abundant Growth
1 Exploration
1 Mystic Remora
1 Unbridled Growth
1 Urban Burgeoning
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wild Growth
1 Darksteel Mutation
1 Fertile Ground
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Sterling Grove
1 Sylvan Library
1 Act of Authority
1 Aura of Silence
1 Enchantress's Presence
1 Estrid's Invocation
1 Ever-Watching Threshold
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Gift of Paradise
1 Grasp of Fate
1 New Horizons
1 Overgrowth
1 Propaganda
1 Rhystic Study
1 Sheltered Aerie
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Verdant Haven
1 Weirding Wood
1 Words of Wind
1 Abundance
1 Dawn's Reflection
1 Market Festival
1 Future Sight
1 Oath of Teferi
1 Privileged Position
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Treachery
1 Thought Reflection
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Command Tower
1 Serra's Sanctum
5 Forest
4 Island
4 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Tundra
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortess
1 Prairie Stream
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Canopy Vista
1 Scattered Groves
1 Bountiful Promenade
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Hinterland Harbor
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
The Future Sight is a spicy one. I find the bottleneck with that card is lands on top of library, so it is possible that you could tweak things out a little more with extra fetch lands, Arid Mesa, Marsh Flats, Krosan Verge.
36 lands is quite a bit with so many Enchant lands for extra mana. I feel like you'd be OK with shaving a few, as there is a lot of draw cards in your deck, so flooding is more like than screw by quite a margin. This will help with getting a little bit more consistency out of Future Sight. I'm all about getting those few inches out of cards
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
What do you think about cutting Sol Ring in favor of Stony Silence?
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Also I think a potentially good a source of mana is Arbor Elf in your deck, as it can untap enchanted lands for even more mana.
You have 21 sources for Forests in the deck. My current list only has 16 Forest sources, so personally would be a bit dubious supporting it.
Worth a think about anyway as a sort of compromise for removing a Sol Ring.
I think you can straight up cut a lands for either Arbor Elf, Noble Hierarch or Bird of Paradise, as a way of getting a bit more speed from your deck.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Out:
Island
Estrid's Invocation
Alchemist's Refuge
Thassa, God of the Sea
In:
Sea of Clouds
Imprisoned in the Moon
Arbor Elf
Femeref Enchantress
I made these changes mostly due to some of your advice darren. Femeref Enchantress was pretty excellent against the enchantment wraths midgame drawing me six cards. I wasn't running this before as I didn't own one but I decided to pick one up once I fell in love with the deck. I cut Thassa for it as she is one of the weaker card advantage engines I had.
I wasn't able to get the Arbor Elf nut draws in a real game yet. It has been quite good in goldfishing with either Utopia Sprawl or Wild Growth. I cut Refuge for the Elf as it doesn't allow us to cast it or use it so I figured it was the weakest utility land.
I think having more removal is better than Estrids Invocation doubling up on something. Imprisoned in the Moon is good against commanders as well. I haven't missed Invocation and Imprisoned in the Moon/Song of the Dryads have both been very useful so far.
I think Sea of Clouds is better than Island is most cases. I'm running a good amount of basics as it stands.
Future changes I want to make:
Remove:
Sol Ring
Plains
Add:
Stony Silence
Arid Mesa
Having more fetches is something I really want. I did notice every time I get Future Sight into play I wish I could shuffle.
I'm still on the fence about cutting Sol Ring. Im at the point where I wonder if I could cut a land? I always feel sketchy cutting lands or cards like Sol Ring as I feel like there is a fine balance here. I do get flooded sometimes. But I also like hitting all my land drops and maximizing Exploration when I draw it.
1 Estrid, the Masked
Artifacts:
1 Sol Ring
Instants:
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Swan Song
1 Arcane Denial
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Negate
Sorceries:
1 Replenish
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Recurring Insight
Creatures:
1 Arbor Elf
1 Argothian Enchantress
1 Femeref Enchantress
1 Herald of the Pantheon
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Mesa Enchantress
1 Satyr Enchantress
1 Tuvasa the Sunlit
1 Verduran Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Enchantments:
1 Abundant Growth
1 Exploration
1 Mystic Remora
1 Unbridled Growth
1 Urban Burgeoning
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wild Growth
1 Darksteel Mutation
1 Fertile Ground
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Sterling Grove
1 Sylvan Library
1 Act of Authority
1 Aura of Silence
1 Enchantress's Presence
1 Ever-Watching Threshold
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Gift of Paradise
1 Grasp of Fate
1 Imprisoned in the Moon
1 New Horizons
1 Overgrowth
1 Propaganda
1 Rhystic Study
1 Sheltered Aerie
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Verdant Haven
1 Weirding Wood
1 Words of Wind
1 Abundance
1 Dawn's Reflection
1 Market Festival
1 Future Sight
1 Oath of Teferi
1 Privileged Position
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Treachery
1 Thought Reflection
1 Command Tower
1 Serra's Sanctum
5 Forest
3 Island
3 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Marsh Flats ?
1 Tundra
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortess
1 Prairie Stream
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Sea of Clouds
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Canopy Vista
1 Scattered Groves
1 Bountiful Promenade
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Hinterland Harbor
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
The reason I don't run Femeref Enchantress is because the deck is based around Estrid's [-7] ability to get back enchantments from graveyards anyway, so in theory a board wipe can be recovered from. I just find that it's very situational whether you get value from her. Casting her and not getting any return for a bunch of turns does feel a bit of a wasted spell a lot of the time. I think if the deck was geared around cards that naturally go to the graveyard, like Seal of Cleansing, Aura of Silence, then I'd be more inclined to find a slot.
As far as Sol Ring or Mana Crypt, I mean they are the most broken cards in Commander and arguably all of Multiplayer Magic. Black Lotus would be good in Commander, but in multiplayer games, you do want continuous mana, and so Sol Ring is just a more powerful card for the course of games.
I guess what I'm getting at is even though you can see that my deck is one of the few decks that might get away with not playing these cards, they are still too powerful an effect not to. Turn one Sol Ring, with so many enchant lands that cost 3 mana, means that I can enchant a land and then tap that land for probably two mana in the same turn. So yeah don't feel bad about cutting a land for it.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
When it works it's a huge burst of card draw! Most of the time it won't, though.
I'm considering running one because I also want to run sac outlets + Parallax Tide and Parallax Wave, but I'd have to decide what else I'm doing to see if that's worth it, since I, um, haven't finished the deck yet.
Added
+ Urban Utopia
Removed
- Unbridled Growth
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The Academy Rector is also a little bit more effective in planeswalker decks, as it forces people to attack into you. Also I've used Academy Rector as simply a way to get a must need answer by table-talking to an opponent to kill it so I could get a card like Song of the Dryads to nullify another opponent's card. Like it's not just a combo card.
Estrid, Replenish or Starfield of Nyx ability to cheat large enchantments into play is another good reason to run Omniscience. Plus for my particular deck, I do have some other bomb enchantments I can put into play if Omniscience is in my hand or graveyard at the time the Rector dies. If it's in my graveyard I have the option of Starfield of Nyx to get it into play next turn anyway. Or I'm pretty happy about New Perspectives, the deck is amazing at getting the cycling aspect going with the deck. If all else fails even Eidolon of Blossoms tends be enough to get you started.
I've been pretty disappointed by Herald of the Pantheon, the cost reduction is a bit blah when compared to running the risk of another creature and life gain isn't really that important. I would prefer to run Academy Rector as a creature, as you're quite happy for it to die.
Added
+ Academy Rector
+ Omniscience
Removed
- Herald of the Pantheon
- Austere Command
Austere Command can be a brilliant answer for a lot of game states, but if I'm going to be more combo orientated, then it's better to replace an expensive card that's not particularly pro-active to the deck synergies.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
First of all planeswalkers are more powerful in duels. They are easier to protect, because you only have to deal with one players set of creatures. So planeswalker commander do become better.
The difference between 1vs1 and multiplayer is that usually multiplayer is a little bit more battle-cruiser. Meaning that spells usually cost more, but do more powerful things. The reason is that you have to be casting spells which have a higher impact. In duels spells need to be a bit more cost efficient as you have lower life totals and you are dealing with direct pressure from a single player.
This Estrid deck is fairly insular, meaning that it's just looking to do it's own thing and not interact with what opponents are doing too much.
Unfortunately you don't have as much time to setup the whole Life from the Loam package with cycling lands, as in general this might be a bit slow for 1vs1. In multiplayer you normally have a bit more time to set this up and be patient with it.
Any interaction, like removal is a lot better in 1vs1. In multiplayer, any removal can be card disadvantage to you and the player you're targeting, and other players are then up some resources, because cards have been used and didn't have to spend any time on the interactions. So if that makes sense when spot removal is used, for a couple of opponents the interaction was a 2-for-0. Two cards removed for zero interaction.
Expect more low to the ground creatures, so aggressive decks look to pressure you early. I think more creature removal vs artifact/enchantment would be better.
Artifacts and enchantments are normally more powerful in multiplayer, because some of the effects are high impact and have inbuilt renewal value. In duels a lot more emphasis is on creatures as they can pressure life totals better.
So what changes would I make?
I would removed some of the slightly slower cycling lands for untapped lands, so the deck is a little quicker.
I'd also add in more removal and general interaction.
Estrid 1vs1 changes
Add
+ Swords to Plowshares
+ Path to Exile
+ Nature's Claim
+ Darksteel Mutation
+ Gideon's Intervention
+ Imprisoned in the Moon
+ Wrath of God
+ City of Brass
+ Mana Confluence
+ Mystic Gate
+ Adarkar Wastes
+ Brushland
+ Yavimaya Coast
+ Reflecting Pool
+ Plains
Remove
- Grasp of Fate
- Energy Flux
- Aura of Silence
- Shalai, Voice of Plenty
- Privileged Position
- Burgeoning
- Krosan Verge
- Desert of the Mindful
- Remote Isle
- Drifting Meadow
- Desert of the True
- Slippery Karst
- Desert of the Indomitable
banned
- Sylvan Library
- Winter Orb
There are probably more cards I'd add, but I'm going off the top of my head as much as possible, would need to really think about it more, but hopefully this gives you a clear direction on the differences. You just don't have the same amount of time to setup in duels, the pressure is immediate and always directed at you. So although things like Shalai, Voice of Plenty and Privileged Position are great for protection in multiplayer because there are literally more spells that can be used to target (more players), in duels you're not always going to have time for cards like this.
[EDIT]
You asked me how I felt about it in 1vs1. Well I don't think it would match up all that well against control decks. There are a lot of cards that don't do a lot on their own. So the enchant lands although produce a lot of mana, are not pressuring opponents. Mana ramp is more in the realm of multiplayer. It's much harder to target ALL the relevant spells in multiplayer, where as in duels you can make sure you only stop the spells that really matter.
In this decks case, it's mainly the draw engine itself, with cards like Argothian Enchantress, Enchantress's Presence, etc. If they can stop these and Estrid herself from hitting or being on the table for long, then the deck does have a lot of cards that do not impact the opponent much.
But on the other hand it is a combo deck, and you can just go off, drawing your deck and having vast amounts of mana. So against mid-range decks, you'd do pretty well.
Against aggressive decks, you might have to get a bit lucky and draw into a Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God early, or just be quicker with your combo engine than they are.
Honestly it's a little hard for me to know unless I actually tried a version in 1vs1.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I built this lady planning to abuse The Chain Veil now with a land that can tap for a lot of mana and with that came other walkers and with all of that came this list.
1 Estrid, the Masked
Creature
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Academy Rector
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Spellseeker
1 Aura Thief
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Snapcaster Mage
Enchantment
1 Sylvan Library
1 Humility
1 Propaganda
1 Treachery
1 Aura Shards
1 Sterling Grove
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Decree of Silence
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Copy Enchantment
1 Privileged Position
1 Enchanted Evening
1 Prismatic Omen
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Exploration
1 Grasp of Fate
1 Solemnity
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Omniscience
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 City of Brass
3 Forest
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 High Market
1 Deserted Temple
1 Mystic Gate
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Mana Confluence
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Scattered Groves
1 Horizon Canopy
Artifact
1 Mox Diamond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
Instant
1 Arcane Denial
1 Force of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Crop Rotation
1 Frantic Search
1 Miscalculation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Harrow
1 Remand
1 Commandeer
1 Mental Misstep
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Echoing Truth
1 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Teferi's Protection
1 Spell Pierce
1 Mana Drain
1 Nature's Lore
1 Personal Tutor
1 Replenish
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Farseek
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Wargate
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
1 Council's Judgment
I wonder if Land Enchantments would be superior to Mana Dorks in this case it feels like each choice can very greatly influence what the rest of the deck becomes.
You can of course use the enchant lands to produce the 4 for the The Chain Veil, so really if you were looking to do this you should definitely play enchant lands over mana dorks.
For example if you have a Wild Growth and Gift of Paradise on two different lands, then you be able to go infinite with The Chain Veil and Estrid, the Masked.
Let's break down your "creatures matters" cards:
Humility shuts down creatures.
With only 12 creatures in the deck, the Survival of the Fittest is looking pretty inconsistent as well.
Green Sun's Zenith would realistically need to be cut as well, even if it can get Eidolon of Blossoms. This is a bit limited once mana creatures are gone.
Aura Shards has the same problem as Survival of the Fittest in that you only have 12 creatures. It's just not at it's best.
The Rest in Peace is working directly against the Replenish, Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds and of course Estrid [-7].
It will also shut off the Academy Rector and Arena Rector.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is a little unusual that if it get's dredged from Life from the Loam, then you'll end up shuffling your library, undoing all your work to setup your graveyard for you graveyard matters cards.
The Stony Silence will shut down The Chain Veil, which is one of the reasons I decided not to run the Veil. But it's fine being a risk as it's just so powerful in a deck that doesn't run any other artifacts.
I'd be tempted into Fabricate to find The Chain Veil.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Also the best form of creatures in a deck like this is the God and his legion of clerics.
I have moved on from this deck to something 4 color and hopefully that can make even more use out of the Sanctum we shall see, it seems rather devious and needed R to truly get off the ground.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith