I agree with Duplicant it's a fantastic underappreciated card. Colorless is especially strong in Aminatou, as it's easy to ramp up with her flicker. Cards like Contagion Engine and Eye of Doom might be worth looking at as well.
The player after me played Liliana of the Veil, making everyone discard, I discarded my Rector.. T
At end of turn my Rector died due to Necromancy having been played at instant speed..
Getting me Omniscience, I used Top at end of the last player before me and find Narset Transcendent, play that card and play my commander.. Returning a card to the top with Aminatou and getting it with Narset, both plussing a turn.. I draw into some more scary things due to top and putting top on top at a moment where I get Trinket Mage (which gets my top back again).. Getting to much board presence from Omniscience and having a bit of removal and Counter the other players scoop.. Thus giving me the game.. Don't know if I would have won if they had kept playing, but I wil take it..
Haha, nice! Those corner cases where your fairly dead hands can turn into a win due to opponents helping you out unwittingly.
I agree with Duplicant it's a fantastic underappreciated card. Colorless is especially strong in Aminatou, as it's easy to ramp up with her flicker. Cards like Contagion Engine and Eye of Doom might be worth looking at as well.
Might be worth looking into as an independent build or as an addon to one of the decks.
My honest opinion is that if you wanted to go down the infinite turn route with Archaeomancer, etc and extra turn cards, is that Brago, King Eternal will serve you better.
He actually guarantees infinite, where as Aminatou will run out of activation's. You might draw into mana that will allow you to recast her again and have the mana for the extra turn card, but it's a gamble.
So for my mind I don't think she is the best for this strategy, although it's always going to be a strong build when you have extra turn cards and ways to buy them back.
Eye of Doom is certainly note worthy. You can either blink out the card(s) that might get targeted for you. But it's a nice balance card if a player is ahead, everyone can make sure the biggest threats are removed. But on this same note, people could just pick all your permanents to punish you for playing the card. So a little bit too random for my liking I think.
What do you think about using Eldrazi Displacer as a backup plan? Colorless mana should not be hard to come by and it greatly supports ETB creatures when Aminatou is not around. It can even make infinite mana with Peregrine Drake is someone chooses to use it as mana engine.
Obviously running Deadeye Navigator infinite's is always going to be a strong approach to a deck that has a lot of ETB creatures. I guess the thing is that it's just a bit tried and true, and thus a bit done-to-death and uninspired. But that's just me coming from a been there and done that perspective.
You can run some infinite's like; Eldrazi Displacer, Deadeye Navigator, Peregrine Drake, Palinchron, for sure and you're always going to get some solid wins out of this package.
Eldrazi Displacer and Deadeye Navigator also make it hard for opponents to use removal, due to being able to blink out creatures in response. Eldrazi Displacer can't blink itself, but then that just forces opponents to remove it, without a choice if you're able to hold the mana up.
If you run this package you're always going to have a competitive deck. Aminatou makes sure that Peregrine Drake and Palinchron can potentially make you mana on the very first turn they come into play, which is very powerful.
My honest opinion is that if you wanted to go down the infinite turn route with Archaeomancer, etc and extra turn cards, is that Brago, King Eternal will serve you better.
He actually guarantees infinite, where as Aminatou will run out of activation's. You might draw into mana that will allow you to recast her again and have the mana for the extra turn card, but it's a gamble.
So for my mind I don't think she is the best for this strategy, although it's always going to be a strong build when you have extra turn cards and ways to buy them back.
About the extra turn route I kinda agree on darrenhabib on this matter, I think this is not the best deck for it. I do play a time warp in mine though, for that random moment where it can give you 'semi' infinite turns. But it's mostly just a random factor for my deck.. Brago is better at doing this as a whole..
Good point. Totally forgot about Brago. It made me curious and I did a quick search, turns out there's not many taking turns Brago decks out there. I'm curious as to why, as I feel like it's a very strong route for the deck.
Eye of Doom is certainly note worthy. You can either blink out the card(s) that might get targeted for you. But it's a nice balance card if a player is ahead, everyone can make sure the biggest threats are removed. But on this same note, people could just pick all your permanents to punish you for playing the card. So a little bit too random for my liking I think.
I have never really felt like Eye of Doom was a great card, though I might be mistaken. I personally don't feel like we have room for such a card in the deck. I already have problems finding spots to make changes. Contagion Engine might be good, also helps your planes walkers and can actually kill stuff.. It is a bit slow though.. ^^
Fair dos. The card has a lot of interactions with Aminatou which are noteworthy, but I agree that it's still not terribly strong. Contagion Engine has potential though, I'd like to give it a try to see how it does.
I mentioned Displacer and Drake purposely as they are much cheaper and easier to recurr (Titan / Reveilark) than Deadeye & Palinchron. The latter are more end-game material or T&N targets. Even if infinite mana is not your cup of tea a Cloud of Faeries makes excellent two-drop to use as a ramp next turns.
I'm building Aminatou myself and my biggest concern is running out of gas. What draw spells/engines do you suggest except for Windfall, Oath of Jace and Timetwister (which I do not own)?
If you're looking for straight up draw spells, I'd suggest taking a peek at some of the enchantments. Liliana's Contract and New Perspective have some potential, as being able to flicker them is quite strong. However their mana cost is quite steep. Other cards to check out would be Treasure Map which interacts favorably with both Aminatou's [+1] and [-1]; and Search for Azcanta Which is card draw, filter, and ramp all in one. Some of us play Land Tax which turns Aminatou's [+1] into a draw.
In my experience, my planeswalker [+1]'s have usually been enough to keep my hand full. Both Teferi's are quite strong, and Jace, Kaya, and Ob Nixilus have a lot of power as well.
Also, Demonic Pact is a card that I've been testing. It's cute, but it can also be quite strong.
I mentioned Displacer and Drake purposely as they are much cheaper and easier to recurr (Titan / Reveilark) than Deadeye & Palinchron. The latter are more end-game material or T&N targets. Even if infinite mana is not your cup of tea a Cloud of Faeries makes excellent two-drop to use as a ramp next turns.
I'm building Aminatou myself and my biggest concern is running out of gas. What draw spells/engines do you suggest except for Windfall, Oath of Jace and Timetwister (which I do not own)?
Now if you do end up playing a reasonable amount of ETB creatures, then you can look at Panharmonicon as a value card. Make sure you have enough creatures to warrant it, but remember this card does allow you to go infinite with Felidar Guardian.
Good point. Totally forgot about Brago. It made me curious and I did a quick search, turns out there's not many taking turns Brago decks out there. I'm curious as to why, as I feel like it's a very strong route for the deck.
There are not that many that don't exile themselves, and then some of these are pretty expensive dollar wise, so it might just be a budget thing for a lot of people.
There are not that many that don't exile themselves, and then some of these are pretty expensive dollar wise, so it might just be a budget thing for a lot of people.
I think the reason why not many use extra turns is indeed partial due to pricing of the cards.. The only decent priced one that costs 5 mana is Time Warp, the others are skewered in price due to scarcity and the sets they where printed in.
Mostly the higher end ones are also a lot less good overall, when taking extra turns mana efficiency is key..
@ Darrenhabib you missed a few I believe.. Savor the Moment (this one doesn't let you untap though XD) Walk the Aeons (one of my personal faves, due to the buyback, even though this is very heavy costed I have been able to abuse this often enough) ^^ Time Stretch - 2 extra turns, but a lot of mana to use Mu Yanling - a Planeswalker that gives extra turns, but it's quite slow to use
There is also Magistrate's Scepter, but this one is only good if using Proliferate engines (I have abused this also sometimes XD)
There are also creatures that can give you extra turns and other cards that can... (to lazy to add all of them XD)
Yeah that's probably it. I think I might give the deck a go and proxy the expensive bits just to see how it does. Hopefully can pick up a few pieces at FNM.
If we're gonna pull in planeswalkers, then let's not forget Teferi, Timebender. His [+2} is more relevant than Mu Yanling's, his [-3] is slightly stronger, and his tutor card(Niambi, Faithful Healer) can be recurred with Sun Titan. Not to mention, he also goes infinite with The Chain Veil on his own with a lot of mana (enough to uptick him and then ult him and then do it again turn 2) or much faster with Aminatou's help.
The more I look at the card the more potential I feel it has. I used to run it in my janky Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage deck. When I took it apart to build this deck he didn't make the cut. But perhaps he's worth looking into.
If we're gonna pull in planeswalkers, then let's not forget Teferi, Timebender. His [+2} is more relevant than Mu Yanling's, his [-3] is slightly stronger, and his tutor card(Niambi, Faithful Healer) can be recurred with Sun Titan. Not to mention, he also goes infinite with The Chain Veil on his own with a lot of mana (enough to uptick him and then ult him and then do it again turn 2) or much faster with Aminatou's help.
The more I look at the card the more potential I feel it has. I used to run it in my janky Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage deck. When I took it apart to build this deck he didn't make the cut. But perhaps he's worth looking into.
Yeah I agree, at first I thought him pretty average, but there is some stuff to think about. I think you'd need to have a build that has Gilded Lotus and Coveted Jewel. Probably then Paradox Engine to then make these stronger as well.
[EDIT]
Actually Aminatou will build up to infinite loyalty if you start with say 3 loyalty as she gets to double off the Deepglow Skate, so after a while you can just use her [-1] as many times in a row as you want.
Can get infinite turns with; Teferi, Timebender + Niambi, Faithful Healer + The Chain Veil + artifact mana.
If you have an artifact that produces 2 mana then you'll need at least 8 other mana to combo.
If you have an artifact that produces 3 mana then you'll need at least 5 other mana to combo.
Next Turn 1:
Repeat the process, but you're hoping to draw into even more mana, so that you can eventually not have to Aminatou [-1] twice in a turn to pay for things.
If you have enough mana to activate the The Chain Veil three times then you can go infinite with just; Teferi, Timebender + The Chain Veil + artifact mana.
Actually now that this has got my brain buzzing, I thinking there could be an artifact build, that uses all the Tezzeret planeswalker to some degree.
I was looking at Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage and it occurred to me that his "[+1] Untap all creatures you control." would go infinite if you made The Chain Veil and some other artifacts creatures.
Same with Gideon, Martial Paragon "[+2] Untap all creatures you control. Those creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn."
Anyway I'm going to start brewing over the next couple of days. It'll be a fun brew rather than leaning towards competitive I imagine, but an artifact heavy build is definitely worth exploring.
If we're gonna pull in planeswalkers, then let's not forget Teferi, Timebender. His [+2} is more relevant than Mu Yanling's, his [-3] is slightly stronger, and his tutor card(Niambi, Faithful Healer) can be recurred with Sun Titan. Not to mention, he also goes infinite with The Chain Veil on his own with a lot of mana (enough to uptick him and then ult him and then do it again turn 2) or much faster with Aminatou's help.
The more I look at the card the more potential I feel it has. I used to run it in my janky Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage deck. When I took it apart to build this deck he didn't make the cut. But perhaps he's worth looking into.
Yeah I agree, at first I thought him pretty average, but there is some stuff to think about. I think you'd need to have a build that has Gilded Lotus and Coveted Jewel. Probably then Paradox Engine to then make these stronger as well.
[EDIT]
Actually Aminatou will build up to infinite loyalty if you start with say 3 loyalty as she gets to double off the Deepglow Skate, so after a while you can just use her [-1] as many times in a row as you want.
Can get infinite turns with; Teferi, Timebender + Niambi, Faithful Healer + The Chain Veil + artifact mana.
If you have an artifact that produces 2 mana then you'll need at least 8 other mana to combo.
If you have an artifact that produces 3 mana then you'll need at least 5 other mana to combo.
Next Turn 1:
Repeat the process, but you're hoping to draw into even more mana, so that you can eventually not have to Aminatou [-1] twice in a turn to pay for things.
If you have enough mana to activate the The Chain Veil three times then you can go infinite with just; Teferi, Timebender + The Chain Veil + artifact mana.
Actually now that this has got my brain buzzing, I thinking there could be an artifact build, that uses all the Tezzeret planeswalker to some degree.
I was looking at Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage and it occurred to me that his "[+1] Untap all creatures you control." would go infinite if you made The Chain Veil and some other artifacts creatures.
Same with Gideon, Martial Paragon "[+2] Untap all creatures you control. Those creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn."
Anyway I'm going to start brewing over the next couple of days. It'll be a fun brew rather than leaning towards competitive I imagine, but an artifact heavy build is definitely worth exploring.
I'm curious to see how this goes. Now that you mention it, there are a few ways that infinite mana can win in our deck. The Chain Veil + Aminatou combo for starters, or Aminatou and any sac outlet Heart of Kiran.
If you're looking to go the Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage route, then you might want to look at some of the mana creatures. Not many of them are great, but some of them are playable. Silver Myr and kin are solid and could maybe replace the signets. Grand Architect plays with your strategy. Intruder Alarm turns Aminatou's [-1] into another engine (that's harder to go infinite with). Also, if you're already running Gideon, Martial Paragon then running Gideon's Resolve and some of Elspeths and other Gideons might make going a wide a solid alternative strategy.
I've been thinking about Trial of Ambition. It's not near as good as Oath of Liliana, but it's solid in a vs match. And if kill spells can fulfill the role of protection that two mana creatures provide then even more so do kill spells that you can flicker. The Cartouches aren't great, but not completely unplayable. But even without them it's a solid card.
I really dig the new list. I was confused at the absence of artifact lands until I noticed the Match Against Machines nonbo. Possibly worth considering the artifact man lands? But then colorless becomes a problem. :/
I still think Intruder Alarm is worth considering. Gives infinite creature untaps with the felidar combo, goes infinite with Cloudstone Curio and the proper distribution of artifacts creatures and artifact animators, and makes the Aminatou + Chain Veil combo potentially feasable. Even more so if you decide to run Grand Architect.
Anyways, looking forward to hearing results!
I really dig the new list. I was confused at the absence of artifact lands until I noticed the Match Against Machines nonbo. Possibly worth considering the artifact man lands? But then colorless becomes a problem. :/
I still think Intruder Alarm is worth considering. Gives infinite creature untaps with the felidar combo, goes infinite with Cloudstone Curio and the proper distribution of artifacts creatures and artifact animators, and makes the Aminatou + Chain Veil combo potentially feasable. Even more so if you decide to run Grand Architect.
Anyways, looking forward to hearing results!
Yeah it's such a shame that March of the Machines kills the artifact lands, because originally I wanted to Darksteel Citadel and the colored artifact lands.
Just using Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas [-1] to make Darksteel Citadel a 5/5 indestructible creature seems quite strong for defending.
It's actually a super hard choice in the end right. Because you can combo with a lot of the cards and artifact lands, but then just the one card blows you out.
But I've decided to put them in because you can line it up. I mean unless you have a combo lined up already you don't need to play the March of the Machines. I.e. you'll need to already have a good artifact mana base, and some other cards to use them before you'd commit it to a board with artifact lands in play.
Also there are a few outs. If you've used a Tezzeret planeswalker ability to make one of your artifacts lands a 5/5 then the March of the Machines won't effect it.
And now believe it or not Gideon's Resolve would give you an alternative as well with the +1/+1
What I think is kind of fun..and listen this deck is a little janky, but with Gideon's Resolve and Niambi, Faithful Healer, you basically will always have access to the paired planeswalkers, as you can always Aminatou [-1] them to get them back from graveyard. Got to love that value.
The other thing is that there are not actually that many colored mana sources, which honestly really you need to properly combo off if you are wanting to use Cloudstone Curio in an effective way to recast your cretures or planeswalkers, as they are colored spells. So the artifact lands give you more sources of colored artifacts for combos.
As this is more of a style points deck for getting particular combos, I'm not going to use the Tezzeret the Seeker + Throne of Geth combo, as I'd prefer to win off Tezzeret the Seeker making all your artifacts 5/5 creatures. Tithe is a great card, but I'd prefer to being playing artifact lands for each of my turns if possible, rather than Plains.
The reason I went higher on land counts, even though the deck is packed with artifact mana, is that in some ways I want to treat the artifacts lands as spells, as you have to be prepared to lose them against artifact hate.
I really dig the new list. I was confused at the absence of artifact lands until I noticed the Match Against Machines nonbo. Possibly worth considering the artifact man lands? But then colorless becomes a problem. :/
I still think Intruder Alarm is worth considering. Gives infinite creature untaps with the felidar combo, goes infinite with Cloudstone Curio and the proper distribution of artifacts creatures and artifact animators, and makes the Aminatou + Chain Veil combo potentially feasable. Even more so if you decide to run Grand Architect.
Anyways, looking forward to hearing results!
Yeah it's such a shame that March of the Machines kills the artifact lands, because originally I wanted to Darksteel Citadel and the colored artifact lands.
Just using Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas [-1] to make Darksteel Citadel a 5/5 indestructible creature seems quite strong for defending.
It's actually a super hard choice in the end right. Because you can combo with a lot of the cards and artifact lands, but then just the one card blows you out.
But I've decided to put them in because you can line it up. I mean unless you have a combo lined up already you don't need to play the March of the Machines. I.e. you'll need to already have a good artifact mana base, and some other cards to use them before you'd commit it to a board with artifact lands in play.
Also there are a few outs. If you've used a Tezzeret planeswalker ability to make one of your artifacts lands a 5/5 then the March of the Machines won't effect it.
And now believe it or not Gideon's Resolve would give you an alternative as well with the +1/+1
I hadn't thought of that. Aminatou's [+1] also gives us a unique opportunity to filter out such cards.
What I think is kind of fun..and listen this deck is a little janky, but with Gideon's Resolve and Niambi, Faithful Healer, you basically will always have access to the paired planeswalkers, as you can always Aminatou [-1] them to get them back from graveyard. Got to love that value.
This is honestly one of the biggest things that makes Teferi tempting to me. When I used to run him in my Raff deck, I'd sometimes luck into Niambi with Aethermage's Touch and I can say that being able to threaten a double search is very strong.
Speaking of, Aethermage's Touch can be quite fun with this deck. I used to run it in an older list, and thanks to Aminatou's [+1] we rarely miss with it. It's quite strong with Venser, Shaper Savant. Almost tempted to run it again for *****s and giggles.
The reason I went higher on land counts, even though the deck is packed with artifact mana, is that in some ways I want to treat the artifacts lands as spells, as you have to be prepared to lose them against artifact hate.
Speaking of, i've always been curious of art of ct heavy mana bases. Most of my decks are low to the ground, so I rarely spend time ramping. My current Aminatou list runs 37 lands out of habit. How well does the lower land count + artifacts work? Tempted to give it a shot as my mana curve is a bit higher now. On the other hand, I'd typically prefer to use turn 2 to setup Aminatou defense rather than ramping. But as I'm running combo, keeping her out of play might be better...
Speaking of, i've always been curious of art of ct heavy mana bases. Most of my decks are low to the ground, so I rarely spend time ramping. My current Aminatou list runs 37 lands out of habit. How well does the lower land count + artifacts work? Tempted to give it a shot as my mana curve is a bit higher now. On the other hand, I'd typically prefer to use turn 2 to setup Aminatou defense rather than ramping. But as I'm running combo, keeping her out of play might be better...
Simply put.. "More explosive starts VS Higher risk"
My Lazav, the Multifarious deck has a high artifact count, even playing the artifact lands. I've had games where I was able to win the game Turn 4 by playing the riskier mana base.
But at the same time I got D.E.S.T.R.O.Y.E.D by a Vandalblast like on Turn 4, because I even had a Seat of the Synod as one of my lands just to rub salt into the wound.
But at the end of the day you are less likely to run up against artifact hate than you are to simply win more games because you are always ahead on curve.
I can't give an exact number, but my suspicion that the number of games you'd lose versus number of games you win due, to replacing lands with artifact mana would work in like a 2/3 ratio, leaning towards winning more with artifacts as mana sources.
So specifically if you normally play 37 land, and you started replacing say 5 of those lands with cheap artifact sources, my opinion is that you'd win more games because of the mana acceleration than you'd lose because of artifact hate or even missing land drops.
Sure it feels bad when you do get blown out, but the correct line of thinking is that balance it up with the number of times you were a turn ahead on casting spells. The thing with this is that it's an unmeasured quantity, because you can't say definitively that you WON because you were casting things quicker. But my belief is that you do on more occasions.
Question, why aren't we running Phyrexian Scriptures. I just randomly came across it on MTG Arena. Boardwiping every turn seems pretty good, no? Plus being able to protect our stuff, plus incidental graveyard hate. Seems real strong for a 4 mana package.
@ Ucenna - Problem with Phyrexian Scriptures = The 1st activation does literal nothing for the deck I feel. Also the second can be negative for us sometimes.. Just my 2cent though.. It's also 4 mana, doing nothing for a turn for 4 mana is not great imo.. ^^
Fair. It's basically a boardwipe that gives opponents extra time to respond. Which isn't great, but I feel like the ability to keep it up makes up for that.
The chance it survives a turn might depend on the meta you play in, but in heavy destruction meta's it wil most likely do nothing but give a +1/+1 counter and get destroyed..
You can test it out if you want though, not stopping you.. But that is my reason for not playing it..
Definitely true. In my experience, enchantment removal isn't all that common. That just leaves us with general permanent removal, and there's only ever so much of that to go around. If one of them is being fired at an enchantment that only wipes the board rather than a planeswalker or other threat, then I count that as a win.
I'll give it a shot, and if it doesn't work out then so be it. But I've got high hopes.
In my meta enchantment hate is maybe a bit more prevelant, specialy with the Enchantress decks running around..
Makes sense. Only one friend plays enchantments and he hasn't pulled that deck out in ages.
But yeah, I see your point, if you dont have a meta where that is all that prevelant then them using removal on it might be good..
Goodluck on testing it, would like to hear your findings.. ^^
For sure! I've played a game with it today against a so-so Jund list. The first game my opponent resolved a Dragon Broodmaster and a few other threats and I didn't have an answer. I had Aminatou and Liliana Vess out but I lost them both the turn Phyrexian Scriptures came out. Fortunately he didn't have any removal for it, so the board wipe resolved. After the board wipe resolved, I recast Aminatou and flickered Phyrexian Scriptures in case he played a threat next turn.
After that we had another game where he end of turn cast Beast Within on my Aminatou, and followed up with a few low mana creatures. On my turn I cast Phyrexian Scriptures on the token, and then next turn cast Aminatou and flickered Phyrexian Scriptures again to make my token a 5/5.
So I guess my intuition tells me that it's rarely going to be well timed as a board wipe. I mean, you either cast it too early and your opponent knows not to over commit, or too late and then you lose your walkers to next turns attacks. The only scenario I can imagine where you wouldn't lose your board state would be if you already had some protection out there to block attacks. That being said, I still think it's worth the janky tempo risks. Having a one sided board wipe every turn is scary, and once it's on the field an opponent has to answer it or Aminatou before they can threaten your other walkers. And having a creature out isn't completely impossible, especially as most of our creatures aren't terribly threatening and aren't likely to be the target of removal once resolved. I'll keep testing it and report back once I get a few more games under my belt.
Trial of Ambition has also been fairly strong. I'd suggest it for lists looking to win semi-fairly. In versus it's almost as good as Oath of Liliana, and turning Aminatou's [-1] into Liliana of the Veil's [-2] is real nice. The fact that you can [+1] [-1] et infinitum, makes it that much better.
Also if Phyrexian Scriptures is too much of a commitment for you, then Magister of Worth might be a solid middle ground. Mana cost is a bit steep, but in versus it's a guaranteed board wipe if you want it to be. And it also has some recursion potential if you're opponents let you get away with it.
@dachivale: No problem. It's still doing work for me. Speaking of, I have a few results to post.
I was playing against my friends Estrid, the Masked deck. It's a pretty terrifying deck, the ramp can be ridiculous. He had established a pretty solid boardstate and was about ready to go on the aggressive. I resolved a The Eldest Reborn and was hoping to combo it with Aminatou and maybe catch up when he Beast Within it at end of turn. On my turn I drew Phyrexian Scriptures, cast it, and used the first chapter to buff my beast token. Then he drew his next card and... scooped.
@ Ucenna, what Own clause? The last ability of Tezzeret the Seeker says you control, there is nowhere on the card any 'You Own' ability..
Maybe I am wrong and not seeing something, but I think the player who told you that you could not ultimate was wrong.. It says literal: "Artifacts you control become artifact creatures with base power and toughness 5/5 until end of turn' meaning all artifacts you control, nothing in that has to do with who owns the Tezzeret or anything like that... ^^
I was actually talking about not being able to flicker Tezzeret with Aminatou's [-1] and so not being able to use it to go infinite.
Nice to see your succes with the Scriptures btw, seems it works quite nicely.. Thing is your reference there is in 1v1 if I am not mistaken.. Where I meant to use it was in multiplayer, where it's implementation and use might be less good, due to more people having answers.. Also it's Destroy non-artifact creatures.. My meta has some artifact decks also.. And only destroying is not always good enough either... Avacyn can be a pain in the arse.. Specially in games alongside the Green/white angel.. (cannot let them sacrifice)!
Oh yeah. It's been a while since I've seen those angels. They're not very popular in my playgroup, so I guess I'm lucky. Actually most of the people I play with I also play Modern with, and tend to craft their decks fairly competitively. There tends to be a lot of counterspells and removal floating around to keep things in check.
Next time I have a chance to play Phyrexian Scriptures in multiplayer I'll report back. At least in my meta, I feel like it won't lose too much viability; as I think that if I'm casting a boardwipe to answer someone most of my opponents might seek to protect it so that they also don't have to deal with so and so's threats. We'll see tho.
I've been thinking of giving Topplegeist a test. Seems pretty okay as protection, and I have a foil german one that I've been wanting to play for forever. We'll see.
The political game can indeed work in your favor here.. I don't have the luck that in political games people are on my side though, mostly I have to try and kinda sneak my card through when they are tapped out.. ^^
Fair enough. I find that planeswalkers tend to be scary, especially for new players. I generally think board wipes are pretty easy to resolve, as even if they're not helping your opponents answer you, they're still helping answer something.
Our meta is kinda diverse I would say and depending on who are there when we play what kind of decks I come across.. Total amount of decks played is probably easily around 30/40 different ones.. Although we have a fairly small play group, we had a way larger one that kinda died off.. They tend to each have quite a few decks... ^^
I have 4 decks sleeved most of the time, playing only 3 myself and the 4th being my GFs.. Though I change decks regularly myself.. (could have more sleeved, but they wil become weaker overall..) Personally I like building new decks once every few weeks, keeps me busy and keeps my decks fresh..
Getting more details/info on how well the Scriptures works in multiplayer wil help indeed.. I also was thinking about Topplegeist and similar cards, but ultimately I feel they lack the power to really shine for the deck.. Though it's always nice to try cards not many might try/consider..
Yeah, I just moved to so I'm still settling into my new meta. Don't really know who I'll be playing against as most of my opponents I play modern with, and commander is just a sort of in between thing to play while waiting for the next rounds. A lot of times we quit early when the next round starts. And I play blue in modern so my games can go a bit longer...
I'm hoping to find a more permanent commander scene that I can check out and maybe get more results from.
I do agree that Topplegeist is probably not that strong. I've pulled him into other decks because he's my pet card, and he's never been as strong as his potential seems to hope for. Since our deck has more diverse permanent types, delirium should be easier to trigger. Maybe this will finally be the deck where he's strong in. My hopes aren't super high tho.
Speaking of white one drops, Serra Ascendant is really strong as defense in our deck. A little less in French because the starting life total is 30 and fetches can make that super awkward. Don't know if we want to dedicate a slot to pure defense, but if you're willing to at least consider Topplegeist then Serra Ascendant might be more up your alley.
There is one card that he's running, Decree of Silence, that can be pretty brutal in our deck. More so if you have the Flash+Academy Rector combo in your list.
I do agree that Topplegeist is probably not that strong. I've pulled him into other decks because he's my pet card, and he's never been as strong as his potential seems to hope for. Since our deck has more diverse permanent types, delirium should be easier to trigger. Maybe this will finally be the deck where he's strong in. My hopes aren't super high tho.
I've listed two cheap planeswalkers, as it hard not to get value out of them. Even if you Jace Beleren [-1] for a card and opponents remove it straight away, well at least you're not a card down (i.e. it repalced itself) and then it's a further card for delirium.
Same with Liliana of the Veil you can use the [+1] to discard a card for reanimation, or even if you're lucky [-2] to get a decent creature off the board, and could be paired with Aminatou to removed two creatures. But again it's another cheap walker to potentially get delirium.
I've listed most of the cheap cantrips as these cover your instant and sorcery. As long as you can get hold of as many of the fetch lands, you should consistently have 3 types fairly early on.
So it's just getting a creature, planeswalker, enchantment or artifact into your graveyard which is the hard part.
But if the deck is setup for reanimation, then you're aiming to get a creature into the graveyard pretty early on as well, so delirium should be achievable, it's just whether you can consistently get it for Turn 3, the turn you might want to play Aminatou with Topplegeist online.
You could also look to play Emrakul, the Promised End as a potential reanimation target. Sure reanimating will not get the cast effect, but it's still a 13/13 flying trampler, that can't be Swords to Plowshares, etc.
Then you could have a lot of games where it's probably like 7 mana to cast.
Speaking of white one drops, Serra Ascendant is really strong as defense in our deck. A little less in French because the starting life total is 30 and fetches can make that super awkward. Don't know if we want to dedicate a slot to pure defense, but if you're willing to at least consider Topplegeist then Serra Ascendant might be more up your alley.
I have been thinking about Serra Ascendant as it's just such a brutal opening hand play. But I have played it in deck that even have life gain and it can end up being a dead draw later in the game.
But our Aminatou decks are designed around master filtering, that's one of her strengths. If you draw it and it's just going to be a 1/1, you can just Aminatou [+1] back ontop of library and look for a shuffle effect to get rid of it.
There is one card that he's running, Decree of Silence, that can be pretty brutal in our deck. More so if you have the Flash+Academy Rector combo in your list.
It is a pretty nasty card, but can be a little overrated in multiplayer games. Opponents can throw some disposal spells into it, and then it goes to graveyard and you don't get a chance to recycle it with Aminatou [-1].
But I think you've been saying you play 1vs1? Yeah than it's pretty strong there, probably locking opponent out as they have to load up on 3 spells to get through it.
I do agree that Topplegeist is probably not that strong. I've pulled him into other decks because he's my pet card, and he's never been as strong as his potential seems to hope for. Since our deck has more diverse permanent types, delirium should be easier to trigger. Maybe this will finally be the deck where he's strong in. My hopes aren't super high tho.
I've listed two cheap planeswalkers, as it hard not to get value out of them. Even if you Jace Beleren [-1] for a card and opponents remove it straight away, well at least you're not a card down (i.e. it repalced itself) and then it's a further card for delirium.
Same with Liliana of the Veil you can use the [+1] to discard a card for reanimation, or even if you're lucky [-2] to get a decent creature off the board, and could be paired with Aminatou to removed two creatures. But again it's another cheap walker to potentially get delirium.
I've listed most of the cheap cantrips as these cover your instant and sorcery. As long as you can get hold of as many of the fetch lands, you should consistently have 3 types fairly early on.
So it's just getting a creature, planeswalker, enchantment or artifact into your graveyard which is the hard part.
But if the deck is setup for reanimation, then you're aiming to get a creature into the graveyard pretty early on as well, so delirium should be achievable, it's just whether you can consistently get it for Turn 3, the turn you might want to play Aminatou with Topplegeist online.
You could also look to play Emrakul, the Promised End as a potential reanimation target. Sure reanimating will not get the cast effect, but it's still a 13/13 flying trampler, that can't be Swords to Plowshares, etc.
Then you could have a lot of games where it's probably like 7 mana to cast.
That's an interesting line. I'm going to have to decide if I want to go that route or not. My reanimation theme isn't particularly strong,but Emrakul is a card I've always wanted to pick up. If not for this deck, than another one.
Speaking of white one drops, Serra Ascendant is really strong as defense in our deck. A little less in French because the starting life total is 30 and fetches can make that super awkward. Don't know if we want to dedicate a slot to pure defense, but if you're willing to at least consider Topplegeist then Serra Ascendant might be more up your alley.
I have been thinking about Serra Ascendant as it's just such a brutal opening hand play. But I have played it in deck that even have life gain and it can end up being a dead draw later in the game.
But our Aminatou decks are designed around master filtering, that's one of her strengths. If you draw it and it's just going to be a 1/1, you can just Aminatou [+1] back ontop of library and look for a shuffle effect to get rid of it.
Fair and Fair. I'm not positive if I want to devote a slot to protection or not. If I do, Topplegeist is a wee bit more versatile, as it can interfere with a creature of any size, makes it a little easier to get through opponent's blockers, and snipes Phantasmal Images now and again. As an aggro play, Serra might be stronger. And since I'm trying to go the good stuff route, she might be preferred.
There is one card that he's running, Decree of Silence, that can be pretty brutal in our deck. More so if you have the Flash+Academy Rector combo in your list.
It is a pretty nasty card, but can be a little overrated in multiplayer games. Opponents can throw some disposal spells into it, and then it goes to graveyard and you don't get a chance to recycle it with Aminatou [-1].
But I think you've been saying you play 1vs1? Yeah than it's pretty strong there, probably locking opponent out as they have to load up on 3 spells to get through it.
Definitely true. There's two scenarios I see happening in that case. Either a) I cheat it out early game and my opponent(s) answer it by wasting their turns losing tempo and cards. or b) I have it late game, at which point *hopefully* my opponents hands are much smaller and they will have more difficulty getting rid of it and I also have the option of using it as a bad counterspell cantrip. That being said, I don't plan to run it as I'm not running Academy Rector.
A card I've been looking at is Hidden Stockpile. I've been comparing it to bitterblossom, which I am unable to speak badly of as UB Faeries is my preferred deck in modern. On one hand, Bitterblossom definitely wins with more and better creatures. But Hidden Stockpile does offer the scry, and combos with Felidar Guardian and Emeria Shepherd for infinite scrys. Our deck, outside of Aminatou's [-1] and fetchs doesn't have too many ways to trigger the revolt. But the combo might make it worth considering.
A card I've been looking at is Hidden Stockpile. I've been comparing it to bitterblossom, which I am unable to speak badly of as UB Faeries is my preferred deck in modern. On one hand, Bitterblossom definitely wins with more and better creatures. But Hidden Stockpile does offer the scry, and combos with Felidar Guardian and Emeria Shepherd for infinite scrys. Our deck, outside of Aminatou's [-1] and fetchs doesn't have too many ways to trigger the revolt. But the combo might make it worth considering.
Oh yeah, it's pretty synergistic with Aminatou!
In some ways it's a little worse than Bitterblossom as you have to use an Aminatou [-1] or maybe just a fetchland trigger. The 1/1 not having flying is a little factor as well.
But in some ways it's better than Bitterblossom as the scry 1 is legit.
I guess you can't on average, do the Aminatou [+1] to scry 1 with a servo, as often you'll be looking to Aminatou [-1] to get the revolt trigger.
If that makes sence you'll have to alternate between her abilities each turn and have that servo around for full turn.
Of course you could be sacrificing any creature, block with your Trinket mage and scry type thing.
I'm going to have to try it, the 2 mana is very tempting. Cast it on Turn 2, cast Aminatou on Turn 3, blink a land, get a servo, and then you'll have a blocker and be able to sacrifice it with the scry as you'll have a land untapped. Very nice curve out, against decks that play out early turn creatures.
A card I've been looking at is Hidden Stockpile. I've been comparing it to bitterblossom, which I am unable to speak badly of as UB Faeries is my preferred deck in modern. On one hand, Bitterblossom definitely wins with more and better creatures. But Hidden Stockpile does offer the scry, and combos with Felidar Guardian and Emeria Shepherd for infinite scrys. Our deck, outside of Aminatou's [-1] and fetchs doesn't have too many ways to trigger the revolt. But the combo might make it worth considering.
Oh yeah, it's pretty synergistic with Aminatou!
In some ways it's a little worse than Bitterblossom as you have to use an Aminatou [-1] or maybe just a fetchland trigger. The 1/1 not having flying is a little factor as well.
But in some ways it's better than Bitterblossom as the scry 1 is legit.
I guess you can't on average, do the Aminatou [+1] to scry 1 with a servo, as often you'll be looking to Aminatou [-1] to get the revolt trigger.
If that makes sence you'll have to alternate between her abilities each turn and have that servo around for full turn.
Of course you could be sacrificing any creature, block with your Trinket mage and scry type thing.
I'm going to have to try it, the 2 mana is very tempting. Cast it on Turn 2, cast Aminatou on Turn 3, blink a land, get a servo, and then you'll have a blocker and be able to sacrifice it with the scry as you'll have a land untapped. Very nice curve out, against decks that play out early turn creatures.
Sweet! I'll probably give it a try as well if I get a copy of it. Let me know how it plays for you.
My only quam about it is that it sacrificing a servo on an opponents turn doesn't trigger the revolt. So sacing on block doesn't do you much. We do get to be more aggressive with servo's, as we can always sac them to get a new one at end step. They also come out a little quicker than bitterblossom which is nice.
As a small note, you can reuse Aminatou's [+1] with the scry, as sacking a servo will still net you revolt trigger.
It's also nice with Sun Titan and Emeria Shepherd to get things in your graveyard to reanimate. I can't tell you how many times I've had one of the two out, and not had anything in my graveyard to reanimate. Being able to use them at least as an alternative flicker to Amaintou's [-1] is solid. This, Sun Titan, and a fetch land also seems pretty dirty.
Speaking of two mana permanents that create 1/1s, what are your thoughts on the Thopter FoundrySword of the Meek combo in the artifact list or even the vanilla list? Both pieces are tutorable with Tezzeret the Seeker, and since we can use Aminatou to flicker him, we can get both pieces out with no additional setup. It's an alternative to the Throne of Geth combo that might be worth exploring.
Edit: speaking of infinite combos. Felidar has infinite ETB's with Animate Dead and kin. Possibly worth running Altar of the Brood in reanimator as an alternative win con?
Another possible combo line for Aminatou could be the Taking Turns route. She goes almost infinite with Archaeomancer/Mnemonic Wall/Possessed Skaab/Salvager of Secrets/The Mirari Conjecture/Scrivener and Capture of Jingzhou/Expropriate/Temporal Manipulation/Time Stretch/Time Warp/Walk the Aeons. You can get three turns with her, and if you can manage two land drops during those three turns, then you get to do it again. Narset the Transcendent extends all these pairings and goes infinite with Time Stretch.
Might be worth looking into as an independent build or as an addon to one of the decks.
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
He actually guarantees infinite, where as Aminatou will run out of activation's. You might draw into mana that will allow you to recast her again and have the mana for the extra turn card, but it's a gamble.
So for my mind I don't think she is the best for this strategy, although it's always going to be a strong build when you have extra turn cards and ways to buy them back.
Eye of Doom is certainly note worthy. You can either blink out the card(s) that might get targeted for you. But it's a nice balance card if a player is ahead, everyone can make sure the biggest threats are removed. But on this same note, people could just pick all your permanents to punish you for playing the card. So a little bit too random for my liking I think.
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Then artifacts Sol Ring and Mana Crypt. Also I'd be swayed over to Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Progress.
I think if you run these, then you should be fairly confident that you'll draw at least one of these during the game.
Obviously running Deadeye Navigator infinite's is always going to be a strong approach to a deck that has a lot of ETB creatures. I guess the thing is that it's just a bit tried and true, and thus a bit done-to-death and uninspired. But that's just me coming from a been there and done that perspective.
You can run some infinite's like; Eldrazi Displacer, Deadeye Navigator, Peregrine Drake, Palinchron, for sure and you're always going to get some solid wins out of this package.
Eldrazi Displacer and Deadeye Navigator also make it hard for opponents to use removal, due to being able to blink out creatures in response. Eldrazi Displacer can't blink itself, but then that just forces opponents to remove it, without a choice if you're able to hold the mana up.
If you run this package you're always going to have a competitive deck. Aminatou makes sure that Peregrine Drake and Palinchron can potentially make you mana on the very first turn they come into play, which is very powerful.
I think Palinchron and even Great Whale could be made more competitive if you make sure you have some elements of land ramp, which is rare in Esper. Knight of the White Orchid, Boreas Charger, Solemn Simulacrum, Treasure Map would be cards I'd look to play, if I was looking at these creatures in a build.
In general you're more likely to see Palinchron in two or mono-colored builds as High Tide, Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, Extraplanar Lens all help to go infinite.
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Good point. Totally forgot about Brago. It made me curious and I did a quick search, turns out there's not many taking turns Brago decks out there. I'm curious as to why, as I feel like it's a very strong route for the deck.
Fair dos. The card has a lot of interactions with Aminatou which are noteworthy, but I agree that it's still not terribly strong. Contagion Engine has potential though, I'd like to give it a try to see how it does.
If you're looking for straight up draw spells, I'd suggest taking a peek at some of the enchantments. Liliana's Contract and New Perspective have some potential, as being able to flicker them is quite strong. However their mana cost is quite steep. Other cards to check out would be Treasure Map which interacts favorably with both Aminatou's [+1] and [-1]; and Search for Azcanta Which is card draw, filter, and ramp all in one. Some of us play Land Tax which turns Aminatou's [+1] into a draw.
In my experience, my planeswalker [+1]'s have usually been enough to keep my hand full. Both Teferi's are quite strong, and Jace, Kaya, and Ob Nixilus have a lot of power as well.
Also, Demonic Pact is a card that I've been testing. It's cute, but it can also be quite strong.
Good luck!
If you can play as many of these types of spells then Dig Through Time should ensure you action. I personally would look to play Gitaxian Probe, Sleight of Hand, Opt, as further fuel for the Dig Through Time.
Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora as solid draw cards.
If you do end up running Eldrazi Displacer, then a few more ETB draw creatures can help. Augur of Bolas, Sea Gate Oracle.
Mulldrifter and Cloudblazer are also popular cards for draw in Aminatou builds.
Now if you do end up playing a reasonable amount of ETB creatures, then you can look at Panharmonicon as a value card. Make sure you have enough creatures to warrant it, but remember this card does allow you to go infinite with Felidar Guardian.
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Teshar
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Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Capture of Jingzhou $97.65
Temporal Manipulation $84.99
Time Warp $13.63
These get shuffled in, so can't use graveyard recursion.
Beacon of Tomorrows
Nexus of Fate
The rest of the extra turn cards exile themselves.
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Yeah that's probably it. I think I might give the deck a go and proxy the expensive bits just to see how it does. Hopefully can pick up a few pieces at FNM.
If we're gonna pull in planeswalkers, then let's not forget Teferi, Timebender. His [+2} is more relevant than Mu Yanling's, his [-3] is slightly stronger, and his tutor card(Niambi, Faithful Healer) can be recurred with Sun Titan. Not to mention, he also goes infinite with The Chain Veil on his own with a lot of mana (enough to uptick him and then ult him and then do it again turn 2) or much faster with Aminatou's help.
The more I look at the card the more potential I feel it has. I used to run it in my janky Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage deck. When I took it apart to build this deck he didn't make the cut. But perhaps he's worth looking into.
Can get infinite turns with;
Teferi, Timebender + Deepglow Skate + Oath of Teferi.
Let's say you already have Deepglow Skate in play, and cast the Teferi, Timebender.
Aminatou [+1]
Aminatou [-1] Deepglow Skate to put Teferi, Timebender on 10 loyalty. Ultimate him.
Teferi, Timebender [+2] to put him on 3 loyalty.
Next Turn 1:
Aminatou [+1]
Teferi, Timebender [+2] to put him on 5 loyalty.
Aminatou [-1] Deepglow Skate to put Teferi, Timebender on 10 loyalty. Ultimate him.
Next Turn 2:
Aminatou [-1] Teferi, Timebender to restart on 5 loyalty.
Aminatou [-1] Deepglow Skate to put Teferi, Timebender on 10 loyalty. Ultimate him.
Teferi, Timebender [+2] to put him on 3 loyalty.
Next Loop Infinitely from Next Turn 1:
[EDIT]
Actually Aminatou will build up to infinite loyalty if you start with say 3 loyalty as she gets to double off the Deepglow Skate, so after a while you can just use her [-1] as many times in a row as you want.
Can get infinite turns with;
Teferi, Timebender + Niambi, Faithful Healer + The Chain Veil + artifact mana.
You have to cast Teferi, Timebender and have 8 for two The Chain Veil activation's.
Let's assume you have one of the > 2 mana artifact rocks like, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Gilded Lotus, Coveted Jewel.
If you have an artifact that produces 2 mana then you'll need at least 8 other mana to combo.
If you have an artifact that produces 3 mana then you'll need at least 5 other mana to combo.
Cast Teferi, Timebender.
Teferi, Timebender [+2] untapping the artifact mana.
Activate the The Chain Veil.
Teferi, Timebender [+2] untapping the artifact mana.
Aminatou [+1]
Aminatou [-1] The Chain Veil and activate again.
Teferi, Timebender [-9] ultimate for extra turn, sending him to the graveyard.
Aminatou [-1] Niambi, Faithful Healer getting back Teferi, Timebender.
Next Turn 1:
Repeat the process, but you're hoping to draw into even more mana, so that you can eventually not have to Aminatou [-1] twice in a turn to pay for things.
If you have enough mana to activate the The Chain Veil three times then you can go infinite with just;
Teferi, Timebender + The Chain Veil + artifact mana.
Actually now that this has got my brain buzzing, I thinking there could be an artifact build, that uses all the Tezzeret planeswalker to some degree.
These are the planeswalkers I'm thinking (as well as others);
Teferi, Timebender
Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage
Gideon, Martial Paragon
Karn, Scion of Urza
Tezzeret the Schemer
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Tezzeret the Seeker
Tezzeret, Cruel Machinist
Then to a lesser extent, maybe not at all;
Tezzeret, Artifice Master
Tezzeret, Master of Metal
I was looking at Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage and it occurred to me that his "[+1] Untap all creatures you control." would go infinite if you made The Chain Veil and some other artifacts creatures.
Same with Gideon, Martial Paragon "[+2] Untap all creatures you control. Those creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn."
Tezzeret the Schemer, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, Tezzeret, Cruel Machinist can all make artifacts into creatures.
Probably wouldn't play them but;
Grasping Current gets Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage.
Gideon's Resolve gets Gideon, Martial Paragon.
March of the Machines, Karn, Silver Golem, Sydri, Galvanic Genius, can also turn artifacts into creatures.
Anyway I'm going to start brewing over the next couple of days. It'll be a fun brew rather than leaning towards competitive I imagine, but an artifact heavy build is definitely worth exploring.
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm curious to see how this goes. Now that you mention it, there are a few ways that infinite mana can win in our deck. The Chain Veil + Aminatou combo for starters, or Aminatou and any sac outlet Heart of Kiran.
If you're looking to go the Jace, Ingenious Mind-Mage route, then you might want to look at some of the mana creatures. Not many of them are great, but some of them are playable. Silver Myr and kin are solid and could maybe replace the signets. Grand Architect plays with your strategy. Intruder Alarm turns Aminatou's [-1] into another engine (that's harder to go infinite with). Also, if you're already running Gideon, Martial Paragon then running Gideon's Resolve and some of Elspeths and other Gideons might make going a wide a solid alternative strategy.
I've been thinking about Trial of Ambition. It's not near as good as Oath of Liliana, but it's solid in a vs match. And if kill spells can fulfill the role of protection that two mana creatures provide then even more so do kill spells that you can flicker. The Cartouches aren't great, but not completely unplayable. But even without them it's a solid card.
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Feather, the Redeemed
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---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I still think Intruder Alarm is worth considering. Gives infinite creature untaps with the felidar combo, goes infinite with Cloudstone Curio and the proper distribution of artifacts creatures and artifact animators, and makes the Aminatou + Chain Veil combo potentially feasable. Even more so if you decide to run Grand Architect.
Anyways, looking forward to hearing results!
Yeah it's such a shame that March of the Machines kills the artifact lands, because originally I wanted to Darksteel Citadel and the colored artifact lands.
Just using Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas [-1] to make Darksteel Citadel a 5/5 indestructible creature seems quite strong for defending.
It's actually a super hard choice in the end right. Because you can combo with a lot of the cards and artifact lands, but then just the one card blows you out.
But I've decided to put them in because you can line it up. I mean unless you have a combo lined up already you don't need to play the March of the Machines. I.e. you'll need to already have a good artifact mana base, and some other cards to use them before you'd commit it to a board with artifact lands in play.
Also there are a few outs. If you've used a Tezzeret planeswalker ability to make one of your artifacts lands a 5/5 then the March of the Machines won't effect it.
And now believe it or not Gideon's Resolve would give you an alternative as well with the +1/+1
What I think is kind of fun..and listen this deck is a little janky, but with Gideon's Resolve and Niambi, Faithful Healer, you basically will always have access to the paired planeswalkers, as you can always Aminatou [-1] them to get them back from graveyard. Got to love that value.
The other thing is that there are not actually that many colored mana sources, which honestly really you need to properly combo off if you are wanting to use Cloudstone Curio in an effective way to recast your cretures or planeswalkers, as they are colored spells. So the artifact lands give you more sources of colored artifacts for combos.
Aminatou Artifacts
Added
+ Intruder Alarm
+ Gideon's Resolve
+ Ancient Den
+ Seat of the Synod
+ Vault of Whispers
+ Darksteel Citadel
Removed
- Aethersphere Harvester
- Knight of the White Orchid
- Parallax Wave
- Tithe
- Throne of Geth
- Caves of Koilos
As this is more of a style points deck for getting particular combos, I'm not going to use the Tezzeret the Seeker + Throne of Geth combo, as I'd prefer to win off Tezzeret the Seeker making all your artifacts 5/5 creatures.
Tithe is a great card, but I'd prefer to being playing artifact lands for each of my turns if possible, rather than Plains.
The reason I went higher on land counts, even though the deck is packed with artifact mana, is that in some ways I want to treat the artifacts lands as spells, as you have to be prepared to lose them against artifact hate.
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Feather, the Redeemed
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Teshar
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Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I hadn't thought of that. Aminatou's [+1] also gives us a unique opportunity to filter out such cards.
This is honestly one of the biggest things that makes Teferi tempting to me. When I used to run him in my Raff deck, I'd sometimes luck into Niambi with Aethermage's Touch and I can say that being able to threaten a double search is very strong.
Speaking of, Aethermage's Touch can be quite fun with this deck. I used to run it in an older list, and thanks to Aminatou's [+1] we rarely miss with it. It's quite strong with Venser, Shaper Savant. Almost tempted to run it again for *****s and giggles.
Speaking of, i've always been curious of art of ct heavy mana bases. Most of my decks are low to the ground, so I rarely spend time ramping. My current Aminatou list runs 37 lands out of habit. How well does the lower land count + artifacts work? Tempted to give it a shot as my mana curve is a bit higher now. On the other hand, I'd typically prefer to use turn 2 to setup Aminatou defense rather than ramping. But as I'm running combo, keeping her out of play might be better...
My Lazav, the Multifarious deck has a high artifact count, even playing the artifact lands. I've had games where I was able to win the game Turn 4 by playing the riskier mana base.
But at the same time I got D.E.S.T.R.O.Y.E.D by a Vandalblast like on Turn 4, because I even had a Seat of the Synod as one of my lands just to rub salt into the wound.
But at the end of the day you are less likely to run up against artifact hate than you are to simply win more games because you are always ahead on curve.
I can't give an exact number, but my suspicion that the number of games you'd lose versus number of games you win due, to replacing lands with artifact mana would work in like a 2/3 ratio, leaning towards winning more with artifacts as mana sources.
So specifically if you normally play 37 land, and you started replacing say 5 of those lands with cheap artifact sources, my opinion is that you'd win more games because of the mana acceleration than you'd lose because of artifact hate or even missing land drops.
Sure it feels bad when you do get blown out, but the correct line of thinking is that balance it up with the number of times you were a turn ahead on casting spells. The thing with this is that it's an unmeasured quantity, because you can't say definitively that you WON because you were casting things quicker. But my belief is that you do on more occasions.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Question, why aren't we running Phyrexian Scriptures. I just randomly came across it on MTG Arena. Boardwiping every turn seems pretty good, no? Plus being able to protect our stuff, plus incidental graveyard hate. Seems real strong for a 4 mana package.
Fair. It's basically a boardwipe that gives opponents extra time to respond. Which isn't great, but I feel like the ability to keep it up makes up for that.
Definitely true. In my experience, enchantment removal isn't all that common. That just leaves us with general permanent removal, and there's only ever so much of that to go around. If one of them is being fired at an enchantment that only wipes the board rather than a planeswalker or other threat, then I count that as a win.
I'll give it a shot, and if it doesn't work out then so be it. But I've got high hopes.
Makes sense. Only one friend plays enchantments and he hasn't pulled that deck out in ages.
For sure! I've played a game with it today against a so-so Jund list. The first game my opponent resolved a Dragon Broodmaster and a few other threats and I didn't have an answer. I had Aminatou and Liliana Vess out but I lost them both the turn Phyrexian Scriptures came out. Fortunately he didn't have any removal for it, so the board wipe resolved. After the board wipe resolved, I recast Aminatou and flickered Phyrexian Scriptures in case he played a threat next turn.
After that we had another game where he end of turn cast Beast Within on my Aminatou, and followed up with a few low mana creatures. On my turn I cast Phyrexian Scriptures on the token, and then next turn cast Aminatou and flickered Phyrexian Scriptures again to make my token a 5/5.
So I guess my intuition tells me that it's rarely going to be well timed as a board wipe. I mean, you either cast it too early and your opponent knows not to over commit, or too late and then you lose your walkers to next turns attacks. The only scenario I can imagine where you wouldn't lose your board state would be if you already had some protection out there to block attacks. That being said, I still think it's worth the janky tempo risks. Having a one sided board wipe every turn is scary, and once it's on the field an opponent has to answer it or Aminatou before they can threaten your other walkers. And having a creature out isn't completely impossible, especially as most of our creatures aren't terribly threatening and aren't likely to be the target of removal once resolved. I'll keep testing it and report back once I get a few more games under my belt.
Trial of Ambition has also been fairly strong. I'd suggest it for lists looking to win semi-fairly. In versus it's almost as good as Oath of Liliana, and turning Aminatou's [-1] into Liliana of the Veil's [-2] is real nice. The fact that you can [+1] [-1] et infinitum, makes it that much better.
Also if Phyrexian Scriptures is too much of a commitment for you, then Magister of Worth might be a solid middle ground. Mana cost is a bit steep, but in versus it's a guaranteed board wipe if you want it to be. And it also has some recursion potential if you're opponents let you get away with it.
I was playing against my friends Estrid, the Masked deck. It's a pretty terrifying deck, the ramp can be ridiculous. He had established a pretty solid boardstate and was about ready to go on the aggressive. I resolved a The Eldest Reborn and was hoping to combo it with Aminatou and maybe catch up when he Beast Within it at end of turn. On my turn I drew Phyrexian Scriptures, cast it, and used the first chapter to buff my beast token. Then he drew his next card and... scooped.
After that I played against his Nicol Bolas, the Ravager deck. We were mostly going one for one. At one point he cast Tezzeret the Seeker and I followed with The Eldest Reborn making him sacrifice it. On my next turn I attempted to flicker The Eldest Reborn and he Summary Dismissalled the [-1] forcing me to use Chapter 3 on my next turn. Which was fine. The dismissal tapped him out, so I was able to resolve Oath of Teferi. On my turn I reanimated his Tezzeret the Seeker [+1] for nothing, [-X] for The Chain Veil and activated it. When he reminded me that I couldn't combo off with his Tezzeret the Seeker (stupid own clause) I [-X]ed to kill Tezzeret and grab Sol Ring. Then I flickered Sol Ring for extra mana, cast Teferi, Temporal Archmage and comboed off that way. After explaining the combo to him he asked me to show him my wincon. So rather than digging for Sorin, Grim Nemesis I reanimated Gonti, Lord of Luxury and used it to exile his library.
I was actually talking about not being able to flicker Tezzeret with Aminatou's [-1] and so not being able to use it to go infinite.
Oh yeah. It's been a while since I've seen those angels. They're not very popular in my playgroup, so I guess I'm lucky. Actually most of the people I play with I also play Modern with, and tend to craft their decks fairly competitively. There tends to be a lot of counterspells and removal floating around to keep things in check.
Next time I have a chance to play Phyrexian Scriptures in multiplayer I'll report back. At least in my meta, I feel like it won't lose too much viability; as I think that if I'm casting a boardwipe to answer someone most of my opponents might seek to protect it so that they also don't have to deal with so and so's threats. We'll see tho.
I've been thinking of giving Topplegeist a test. Seems pretty okay as protection, and I have a foil german one that I've been wanting to play for forever. We'll see.
Fair enough. I find that planeswalkers tend to be scary, especially for new players. I generally think board wipes are pretty easy to resolve, as even if they're not helping your opponents answer you, they're still helping answer something.
Yeah, I just moved to so I'm still settling into my new meta. Don't really know who I'll be playing against as most of my opponents I play modern with, and commander is just a sort of in between thing to play while waiting for the next rounds. A lot of times we quit early when the next round starts. And I play blue in modern so my games can go a bit longer...
I'm hoping to find a more permanent commander scene that I can check out and maybe get more results from.
I do agree that Topplegeist is probably not that strong. I've pulled him into other decks because he's my pet card, and he's never been as strong as his potential seems to hope for. Since our deck has more diverse permanent types, delirium should be easier to trigger. Maybe this will finally be the deck where he's strong in. My hopes aren't super high tho.
Speaking of white one drops, Serra Ascendant is really strong as defense in our deck. A little less in French because the starting life total is 30 and fetches can make that super awkward. Don't know if we want to dedicate a slot to pure defense, but if you're willing to at least consider Topplegeist then Serra Ascendant might be more up your alley.
There is one card that he's running, Decree of Silence, that can be pretty brutal in our deck. More so if you have the Flash+Academy Rector combo in your list.
Careful Study
Thought Scour
Frantic Search
Intuition
Brainstorm
Preordain
Ponder
Portent
Serum Visions
Tithe
Jace Beleren
Liliana of the Veil
Mystic Remora
I've listed two cheap planeswalkers, as it hard not to get value out of them. Even if you Jace Beleren [-1] for a card and opponents remove it straight away, well at least you're not a card down (i.e. it repalced itself) and then it's a further card for delirium.
Same with Liliana of the Veil you can use the [+1] to discard a card for reanimation, or even if you're lucky [-2] to get a decent creature off the board, and could be paired with Aminatou to removed two creatures. But again it's another cheap walker to potentially get delirium.
I've listed most of the cheap cantrips as these cover your instant and sorcery. As long as you can get hold of as many of the fetch lands, you should consistently have 3 types fairly early on.
So it's just getting a creature, planeswalker, enchantment or artifact into your graveyard which is the hard part.
But if the deck is setup for reanimation, then you're aiming to get a creature into the graveyard pretty early on as well, so delirium should be achievable, it's just whether you can consistently get it for Turn 3, the turn you might want to play Aminatou with Topplegeist online.
You could also look to play Emrakul, the Promised End as a potential reanimation target. Sure reanimating will not get the cast effect, but it's still a 13/13 flying trampler, that can't be Swords to Plowshares, etc.
Then you could have a lot of games where it's probably like 7 mana to cast.
I have been thinking about Serra Ascendant as it's just such a brutal opening hand play. But I have played it in deck that even have life gain and it can end up being a dead draw later in the game.
But our Aminatou decks are designed around master filtering, that's one of her strengths. If you draw it and it's just going to be a 1/1, you can just Aminatou [+1] back ontop of library and look for a shuffle effect to get rid of it.
It is a pretty nasty card, but can be a little overrated in multiplayer games. Opponents can throw some disposal spells into it, and then it goes to graveyard and you don't get a chance to recycle it with Aminatou [-1].
But I think you've been saying you play 1vs1? Yeah than it's pretty strong there, probably locking opponent out as they have to load up on 3 spells to get through it.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
That's an interesting line. I'm going to have to decide if I want to go that route or not. My reanimation theme isn't particularly strong,but Emrakul is a card I've always wanted to pick up. If not for this deck, than another one.
Fair and Fair. I'm not positive if I want to devote a slot to protection or not. If I do, Topplegeist is a wee bit more versatile, as it can interfere with a creature of any size, makes it a little easier to get through opponent's blockers, and snipes Phantasmal Images now and again. As an aggro play, Serra might be stronger. And since I'm trying to go the good stuff route, she might be preferred.
Definitely true. There's two scenarios I see happening in that case. Either a) I cheat it out early game and my opponent(s) answer it by wasting their turns losing tempo and cards. or b) I have it late game, at which point *hopefully* my opponents hands are much smaller and they will have more difficulty getting rid of it and I also have the option of using it as a bad counterspell cantrip. That being said, I don't plan to run it as I'm not running Academy Rector.
A card I've been looking at is Hidden Stockpile. I've been comparing it to bitterblossom, which I am unable to speak badly of as UB Faeries is my preferred deck in modern. On one hand, Bitterblossom definitely wins with more and better creatures. But Hidden Stockpile does offer the scry, and combos with Felidar Guardian and Emeria Shepherd for infinite scrys. Our deck, outside of Aminatou's [-1] and fetchs doesn't have too many ways to trigger the revolt. But the combo might make it worth considering.
In some ways it's a little worse than Bitterblossom as you have to use an Aminatou [-1] or maybe just a fetchland trigger. The 1/1 not having flying is a little factor as well.
But in some ways it's better than Bitterblossom as the scry 1 is legit.
I guess you can't on average, do the Aminatou [+1] to scry 1 with a servo, as often you'll be looking to Aminatou [-1] to get the revolt trigger.
If that makes sence you'll have to alternate between her abilities each turn and have that servo around for full turn.
Of course you could be sacrificing any creature, block with your Trinket mage and scry type thing.
I'm going to have to try it, the 2 mana is very tempting. Cast it on Turn 2, cast Aminatou on Turn 3, blink a land, get a servo, and then you'll have a blocker and be able to sacrifice it with the scry as you'll have a land untapped. Very nice curve out, against decks that play out early turn creatures.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Sweet! I'll probably give it a try as well if I get a copy of it. Let me know how it plays for you.
My only quam about it is that it sacrificing a servo on an opponents turn doesn't trigger the revolt. So sacing on block doesn't do you much. We do get to be more aggressive with servo's, as we can always sac them to get a new one at end step. They also come out a little quicker than bitterblossom which is nice.
As a small note, you can reuse Aminatou's [+1] with the scry, as sacking a servo will still net you revolt trigger.
It's also nice with Sun Titan and Emeria Shepherd to get things in your graveyard to reanimate. I can't tell you how many times I've had one of the two out, and not had anything in my graveyard to reanimate. Being able to use them at least as an alternative flicker to Amaintou's [-1] is solid. This, Sun Titan, and a fetch land also seems pretty dirty.
Speaking of two mana permanents that create 1/1s, what are your thoughts on the Thopter Foundry Sword of the Meek combo in the artifact list or even the vanilla list? Both pieces are tutorable with Tezzeret the Seeker, and since we can use Aminatou to flicker him, we can get both pieces out with no additional setup. It's an alternative to the Throne of Geth combo that might be worth exploring.
Edit: speaking of infinite combos. Felidar has infinite ETB's with Animate Dead and kin. Possibly worth running Altar of the Brood in reanimator as an alternative win con?