Sweet! I'll probably give it a try as well if I get a copy of it. Let me know how it plays for you.
My only quam about it is that it sacrificing a servo on an opponents turn doesn't trigger the revolt. So sacing on block doesn't do you much. We do get to be more aggressive with servo's, as we can always sac them to get a new one at end step. They also come out a little quicker than bitterblossom which is nice.
As a small note, you can reuse Aminatou's [+1] with the scry, as sacking a servo will still net you revolt trigger.
It's also nice with Sun Titan and Emeria Shepherd to get things in your graveyard to reanimate. I can't tell you how many times I've had one of the two out, and not had anything in my graveyard to reanimate. Being able to use them at least as an alternative flicker to Amaintou's [-1] is solid. This, Sun Titan, and a fetch land also seems pretty dirty.
That is true you can always sac in your own turn and it'll get immediately replaced at end of your turn.
You're right you can get an early value creature like Baleful Strix, Wall of Omens, Spellseeker, etc, into your graveyard from play for Sun Titan and Emeria Shepherd value plays.
You could even match it up with two of Knight of the White Orchid, Boreas Charger, Kor Cartographer, Solemn Simulacrum and Emeria Shepherd, so that when you put a Plains into play, you can return another of these and then sacrifice the other.
I've made sure I've pointed out that to get a loop going, you need two of them, because the landfall trigger happens straight away so you can't sacrifice the same creature to go to graveyard in response to then bring it back.
But if you did have two of them then you'll be able to get as many lands into play as the opponent who has the most.
So this is a pretty nice combo if you're up against a land ramp deck.
Speaking of two mana permanents that create 1/1s, what are your thoughts on the Thopter FoundrySword of the Meek combo in the artifact list or even the vanilla list? Both pieces are tutorable with Tezzeret the Seeker, and since we can use Aminatou to flicker him, we can get both pieces out with no additional setup. It's an alternative to the Throne of Geth combo that might be worth exploring.
Too be honest I've never been impressed with this combo in that it still require 1 to get each 1/1. So really unless you match it up with some other card that also triggers creature entering the battlefield, or Ashnod's Altar, then it's a little weak in my opinion.
Edit: speaking of infinite combos. Felidar has infinite ETB's with Animate Dead and kin. Possibly worth running Altar of the Brood in reanimator as an alternative win con?
A few people in this thread are running Altar of the Brood in their lists. It absolutely does the job with Felidar Guardian. I personally would play Panharmonicon as another card to combo with Felidar Guardian. The reason is that Altar of the Brood on it's own does almost nothing, if not becomes a liability if you were to play it out early, as opponents often use their graveyards as a resource. Where at least with Panharmonicon you can get value from it with some of your ETB creatures. It does cost 3 more mana, and it's not tutorable with Trinket Mage, but I do think it's the better option.
Also a deck that runs Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre will stifle your plans.
Sweet! I'll probably give it a try as well if I get a copy of it. Let me know how it plays for you.
My only quam about it is that it sacrificing a servo on an opponents turn doesn't trigger the revolt. So sacing on block doesn't do you much. We do get to be more aggressive with servo's, as we can always sac them to get a new one at end step. They also come out a little quicker than bitterblossom which is nice.
As a small note, you can reuse Aminatou's [+1] with the scry, as sacking a servo will still net you revolt trigger.
It's also nice with Sun Titan and Emeria Shepherd to get things in your graveyard to reanimate. I can't tell you how many times I've had one of the two out, and not had anything in my graveyard to reanimate. Being able to use them at least as an alternative flicker to Amaintou's [-1] is solid. This, Sun Titan, and a fetch land also seems pretty dirty.
That is true you can always sac in your own turn and it'll get immediately replaced at end of your turn.
You're right you can get an early value creature like Baleful Strix, Wall of Omens, Spellseeker, etc, into your graveyard from play for Sun Titan and Emeria Shepherd value plays.
You could even match it up with two of Knight of the White Orchid, Boreas Charger, Kor Cartographer, Solemn Simulacrum and Emeria Shepherd, so that when you put a Plains into play, you can return another of these and then sacrifice the other.
I've made sure I've pointed out that to get a loop going, you need two of them, because the landfall trigger happens straight away so you can't sacrifice the same creature to go to graveyard in response to then bring it back.
But if you did have two of them then you'll be able to get as many lands into play as the opponent who has the most.
So this is a pretty nice combo if you're up against a land ramp deck.
Would you have to have two? You should be able to sac the creature while the ETB is still on the stack, and then search after the creature hits the graveyard. Nice line btw, didn't think of it.
Yeah I forgot to mention this. At least to me, it's enough to push the card over enough to probably be worth a slot.
Speaking of two mana permanents that create 1/1s, what are your thoughts on the Thopter FoundrySword of the Meek combo in the artifact list or even the vanilla list? Both pieces are tutorable with Tezzeret the Seeker, and since we can use Aminatou to flicker him, we can get both pieces out with no additional setup. It's an alternative to the Throne of Geth combo that might be worth exploring.
Too be honest I've never been impressed with this combo in that it still require 1 to get each 1/1. So really unless you match it up with some other card that also triggers creature entering the battlefield, or Ashnod's Altar, then it's a little weak in my opinion.
Really? I've played against the combo in Modern, and it's pretty brutal. Being able to hold open counter magic, and then at end of turn create a 1/1 for each available mana is pretty amazing. And even in EDH, it's not going to be long until you've assembled a big enough army to defeat your opponents. And board wipes only slow it down. They only way to really answer it is to remove one of the combo pieces.
Edit: speaking of infinite combos. Felidar has infinite ETB's with Animate Dead and kin. Possibly worth running Altar of the Brood in reanimator as an alternative win con?
A few people in this thread are running Altar of the Brood in their lists. It absolutely does the job with Felidar Guardian. I personally would play Panharmonicon as another card to combo with Felidar Guardian. The reason is that Altar of the Brood on it's own does almost nothing, if not becomes a liability if you were to play it out early, as opponents often use their graveyards as a resource. Where at least with Panharmonicon you can get value from it with some of your ETB creatures. It does cost 3 more mana, and it's not tutorable with Trinket Mage, but I do think it's the better option.
Also a deck that runs Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre will stifle your plans.
True, and if they're running Nexus of Fate and can cast it, you've probably just lost the game. That's why I don't run the card. I agree that Panharmonicon or one of the other combo pieces is more worth the slot.
Would you have to have two? You should be able to sac the creature while the ETB is still on the stack, and then search after the creature hits the graveyard. Nice line btw, didn't think of it.
Yeah, it's a type of question that I've asked the rules gurus a few times in the past for similar interactions. You have to select a target at the time of the trigger. So you can't "in response" sacrifice the same creature to put it into the graveyard, and then also target it on the landfall trigger.
Really? I've played against the combo in Modern, and it's pretty brutal. Being able to hold open counter magic, and then at end of turn create a 1/1 for each available mana is pretty amazing. And even in EDH, it's not going to be long until you've assembled a big enough army to defeat your opponents. And board wipes only slow it down. They only way to really answer it is to remove one of the combo pieces.
I have played it in a Breya, Etherium Shaper deck, but I also had a lot of other synergies going on with it.
Of course in Modern it's pretty solid, as life totals are tight, and creature pressure and defence are a big part of the game. But it is a little slow and terrible against other combo decks.
Lets see the pro and cons specifically with Aminatou. Pros
1/1 flyers are good at blocking.
If you have a few discard outlets, then Sword of the Meek can be discarded so doesn't take up a card draw as such.
Cons Sword of the Meek is not a good card on it's own as an actual on-board presence. Thopter Foundry on it's own does not have a lot of targets to sacrifice. Giving up artifact mana, is probably a desperation thing rather than winning plays.
Does require you invest mana into your flyers, which is very slow.
I guess this might just come down to a personal preference, as I can't really even see myself playing it in my Aminatou Artifact Armies deck.
Would you have to have two? You should be able to sac the creature while the ETB is still on the stack, and then search after the creature hits the graveyard. Nice line btw, didn't think of it.
Yeah, it's a type of question that I've asked the rules gurus a few times in the past for similar interactions. You have to select a target at the time of the trigger. So you can't "in response" sacrifice the same creature to put it into the graveyard, and then also target it on the landfall trigger.
I mean before the land enters. For example Knight of the White Orchid enters the battlefield and it's ability goes on the stack. Before the ability resolves you sacrifice him to Hidden Stockpile. Then after he's sacrificed you let his ability resolve and search for a plains, when the plains enters it triggers Emerica Shepherd's ability, at this point Knight is already in the graveyard, so it' s a legal target. When it enters, it's ability goes on the stack, before the ability resolves you tap the plains you searched for last time and sacrifice him, then you search etc.
Really? I've played against the combo in Modern, and it's pretty brutal. Being able to hold open counter magic, and then at end of turn create a 1/1 for each available mana is pretty amazing. And even in EDH, it's not going to be long until you've assembled a big enough army to defeat your opponents. And board wipes only slow it down. They only way to really answer it is to remove one of the combo pieces.
I have played it in a Breya, Etherium Shaper deck, but I also had a lot of other synergies going on with it.
Of course in Modern it's pretty solid, as life totals are tight, and creature pressure and defence are a big part of the game. But it is a little slow and terrible against other combo decks.
Lets see the pro and cons specifically with Aminatou. Pros
1/1 flyers are good at blocking.
If you have a few discard outlets, then Sword of the Meek can be discarded so doesn't take up a card draw as such.
Cons Sword of the Meek is not a good card on it's own as an actual on-board presence. Thopter Foundry on it's own does not have a lot of targets to sacrifice. Giving up artifact mana, is probably a desperation thing rather than winning plays.
Does require you invest mana into your flyers, which is very slow.
I guess this might just come down to a personal preference, as I can't really even see myself playing it in my Aminatou Artifact Armies deck.
Fair enough. The cards are definitely not strong enough on their own to justify running with out enough tutors to get them out. And even then it's questionable if they're worthwhile.
Would you have to have two? You should be able to sac the creature while the ETB is still on the stack, and then search after the creature hits the graveyard. Nice line btw, didn't think of it.
Yeah, it's a type of question that I've asked the rules gurus a few times in the past for similar interactions. You have to select a target at the time of the trigger. So you can't "in response" sacrifice the same creature to put it into the graveyard, and then also target it on the landfall trigger.
I mean before the land enters. For example Knight of the White Orchid enters the battlefield and it's ability goes on the stack. Before the ability resolves you sacrifice him to Hidden Stockpile. Then after he's sacrificed you let his ability resolve and search for a plains, when the plains enters it triggers Emerica Shepherd's ability, at this point Knight is already in the graveyard, so it' s a legal target. When it enters, it's ability goes on the stack, before the ability resolves you tap the plains you searched for last time and sacrifice him, then you search etc.
Oh snap, yeah that'll work!
[EDIT]
The other thing I was thinking that Hidden Stockpile actually means I have an artifact each turn I can use to Throne of Geth. Because you just get another at end of your turn.
In the reanimator version I like Argivian Find very much. It gets me back those enchantments or artifacts from your graveyard that you may need...
Hum, now see that there's also Sun Titan and Emeria as a solution ..., butArgivian Find is an instant. That makes it worthwhile.
Sure, it means that Spellseeker and Snapcaster Mage gives you further access to artifacts and enchantments in your graveyard.
I'd prefer to play Argivian Find in a version that has a lot of self milling effects like Careful Study, Thought Scour, to name a few, as it can be a sitting without targets for games.
I do play Argivian Find in a Sunforger deck and often you can have it in your hand for quite awhile without actually having anything to use it on.
Another pro of Argivian Find is that it gives you more access to artifacts and enchantments you want from your library with Intuition.
You can search for Argivian Find, Snapcaster Mage, and then whatever artifact or enchantment you actually want. This way you can get it no matter what opponents give you.
I built it mostly from memory, and I know for a fact that some of the cards are wrong.
I've decided to test out Inventor's Fair and the artifact lands in my main list. I'm hoping they won't interfere too much with Land Tax. With the Artifact lands I have 14 "sources" of artifacts, which I feel justifies the inclusion of Inventors' Fair. I'm also running Darkwater Catacombs and Skycloud Expanse which let's me be a bit more greedy with my colorless sources.
I've decided to test out Inventor's Fair and the artifact lands in my main list. I'm hoping they won't interfere too much with Land Tax. With the Artifact lands I have 14 "sources" of artifacts, which I feel justifies the inclusion of Inventors' Fair. I'm also running Darkwater Catacombs and Skycloud Expanse which let's me be a bit more greedy with my colorless sources.
I've decided to test out Inventor's Fair and the artifact lands in my main list. I'm hoping they won't interfere too much with Land Tax. With the Artifact lands I have 14 "sources" of artifacts, which I feel justifies the inclusion of Inventors' Fair. I'm also running Darkwater Catacombs and Skycloud Expanse which let's me be a bit more greedy with my colorless sources.
I've decided to cut Inventors' Fair. Definitely feel that it's worth considering in decks that plan to win with combo. For me though, I'd rather have more basic lands for Land Tax. Might cut Darkwater Catacombs and Skycloud Expanse in exchange for more basics. Or might find a colorless land worth testing. Don't know yet.
So was working on my own primer for this deck, when I realized that you can use Tezzeret the Seekers's [-X] with Aminatou, the Fateshifter's [+1] to tutor for whatever card you need to close the game. Don't know if it's in your primer, but it's probably worth mentioning.
I've decided to cut Inventors' Fair. Definitely feel that it's worth considering in decks that plan to win with combo. For me though, I'd rather have more basic lands for Land Tax. Might cut Darkwater Catacombs and Skycloud Expanse in exchange for more basics. Or might find a colorless land worth testing. Don't know yet.
I've already touched upon how colorless lands can be a real liability in a 3 colored deck (or even mono-colored decks for that matter). But Inventors' Fair is special enough that if you can make it work then it's worth considering.
So was working on my own primer for this deck, when I realized that you can use Tezzeret the Seekers's [-X] with Aminatou, the Fateshifter's [+1] to tutor for whatever card you need to close the game. Don't know if it's in your primer, but it's probably worth mentioning.
If so then what I normally do is search for Sensei's Divining Top, then you can demonstrate to your opponents how you can just draw your entire deck, by tapping it to draw a card and then searching it out again with Tezzeret the Seeker again.
If so then what I normally do is search for Sensei's Divining Top, then you can demonstrate to your opponents how you can just draw your entire deck, by tapping it to draw a card and then searching it out again with Tezzeret the Seeker again.
Yeah that's what I mean exactly. Top works great too. Nothing wrong with having alternatives though. Especially ones that don't require additional cards.
What if we took that route with the deck? There are a lot of tutor to top of library cards. And there are enough card on top of library shenanigans to make it playable. All the manifest cards, Gate to the Aether, Proteus Staff, Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign, and Arbiter of Ideals. Plus Aminatou's [+1] makes tutors not strictly necessary to cheat. Counterbalance is solid incidental value that turns all top of library tutors instants into counterspells as well.
What if we took that route with the deck? There are a lot of tutor to top of library cards. And there are enough card on top of library shenanigans to make it playable. All the manifest cards, Gate to the Aether, Proteus Staff, Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign, and Arbiter of Ideals. Plus Aminatou's [+1] makes tutors not strictly necessary to cheat. Counterbalance is solid incidental value that turns all top of library tutors instants into counterspells as well.
I might explore it.
Yeah, for my reanimation deck, I'm using Omniscience as the go to card to cheat in with Soul Summons if given the opportunity.
Obviously with Vampiric Tutor I get to specifically choose this.
But there are a lot of times that you are wanting to use Aminatou [+1] to setup from hand, so running a number of redundancy for "broken" cards is beneficial.
As you can see there are a lot of cards to support this archetype, and it has the advantage over say reanimation that you don't expose yourself to graveyard hate. Playing off the top of your library is a lot harder to interact with for opponents, although mill strategies can make it almost impossible to setup.
So you can go for a deck that looks to cheat not paying for a lot of massive spells this way.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Should be interesting to see where our lists diverge.
Pretty much my thought process at the moment is that if you wanted to go for a straight up "reveal card(s) from top of your library, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.", then Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign or Narset, Enlightened Master will just be much better commanders. Not entirely true there is a cost difference, plus exposure as creatures to removal. Narset can still be board wiped away.
But it's still about finding that particular niche where Aminatou, the Fateshifter somehow trumps them for a particular build.
Well so far I'm thinking that at least if you are looking to cast "even" cards for free them this is where you might not play Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign.
Then Narset, Enlightened Master is specially non-creature, so this puts me into a build that's looking to abuse creatures.
So massive even casting cost creatures, lol.
Also manifest is the other advantage of Aminatou, so will be looking at a few select cards this way.
Quote from from="darrenhabib »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/796621-c18-1-4-aminatou-the-fateshifter-the-8-year-old?comment=262 »
Pretty much my thought process at the moment is that if you wanted to go for a straight up "reveal card(s) from top of your library, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.", then Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign or Narset, Enlightened Master will just be much better commanders. Not entirely true there is a cost difference, plus exposure as creatures to removal. Narset can still be board wiped away.
But it's still about finding that particular niche where Aminatou, the Fateshifter somehow trumps them for a particular build.
Don't know that I complete agree. And not just because of the mana cost, which I do think is a big deal (more on that later). When it comes to actually cheating, Yennett and Narset definitely take the cake. But in that regard Aminatou is in a totally different realm. Aminatou is a setup card with some minor cheat abilities(manifest). Aminatou is looking to run cards like Yennett and Narset, and Narset and Yennett are looking to run cards like Aminatou. Both decks are going to have vastly different playstyles. Yennett and Narset are value trains, cheating out as much as possible as fast as possible. Aminatou is more of a lazy deck, spending time getting setup while protecting their board. Probs more of a control deck than the other two.
And then mana cost. Your commander's mana cost is probably the single most significant cost in the game. Yenett and Narset are "stronger" cards than Aminatou but their costs are more expensive to make up for it. To put that in context; you can cast Aminatou once, let her die, and then cast her again by the time you could cast either Yenett or Narset. There's a point in a game of EDH when you stop wanting to draw lands. Maybe by turn 5-6 you think "well I don't really need more lands right at the moment, but I'll take more. I have a few big spells in my deck after all." But when you've got say 10+ mana on the battlefield, anything extra can just be excessive. This is even more true in Yennett, where at that point you could reasonably cast whatever you were planning to cheat out anyways.
And then finally, their's the point where your commander tax makes your commander uncastable. Would you rather draw two more lands, or would you rather draw a money card? Aminatou not only takes longer to get to this point, but also is faster and safer in that you can cast her and activate her before a removal spell forces you to cast her again. The same can't be said for Yennett and to a lesser extent Narset (Hexproof is a really strong ability on a commander imho).
This is good tho. Sounds like we both have very different ideas of how this deck should be built. Looking forward to seeing how your deck comes out!
This is good tho. Sounds like we both have very different ideas of how this deck should be built. Looking forward to seeing how your deck comes out!
Well I posted my deck. It's certainly not supposed to come across as "how this deck should be built", but rather I went for a lot of fun and flavor.
I like what you've done with it. I've always wondered what a token Aminatou deck would look like, guess now I know.
I'm still tweaking my deck. I went the more traditional route with it. Hopefully I'll finish it in a day or two.
I don't know if you've noticed it or not. But thanks to Synthetic Destiny and Mass Polymorph it's reasonably possibly to get to a situation where Proteus Staff let's you stack your library. You've got 16 creatures I think, so might be a little hard to pull off. But worth keeping in mind.
I really like the idea of using a planes walker as a general, but with this deck how do you win if Aminatou is taxed out of reach and you cannot use her?
I really like the idea of using a planes walker as a general, but with this deck how do you win if Aminatou is taxed out of reach and you cannot use her?
You still have infinite's without Aminatou or very close to. The thing with Tezzeret the Seeker or Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with The Chain Veil and/or Oath of Teferi is that you can generate enormous amounts of mana or infinite. So it's almost impossible not to be able to cast Aminatou after you combo this way.
I'd say your list is probably better. Not worthy difference is the inclusion of Mistveil Plains so that I'll always have access to cards in my graveyard.
I recently streamlined my list to better compete in my meta. I added Parallax Wave, and found it to be a lot stronger than I expected. I'll post the new list when I have the chance.
I'd say your list is probably better. Not worthy difference is the inclusion of Mistveil Plains so that I'll always have access to cards in my graveyard.
I recently streamlined my list to better compete in my meta. I added Parallax Wave, and found it to be a lot stronger than I expected. I'll post the new list when I have the chance.
What part of the reanimator do you not like? Just putting big fatties into play?
I noticed that you do have a lot of manifest cards (maybe even the maximum for Esper?) and you've stayed away from too many big targets. Really Emrakul, the Promised End, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Mind's Dilation being the best pay off cards.
Do find that you might want a few more big payoff cards? With Proteus Staff it feels like it would be nice to have at least one more big creature that you can Aminatou [+1] onto the top of your library for guaranteed big creature success.
What part of the reanimator do you not like? Just putting big fatties into play?
Nothing wrong with big fatties. My Saheeli deck is dedicated to ramping out stompy permanents out early. I just find the playstyle very linear. Get X card into your graveyard, and reanimate it with Y spell. Or in my deck's case, get X card on top of library, and cheat it out with Y spell and Aminatou. I tend to dislike combo for the same reason, but Aminatou is nuanced enough to be fun, so long as I'm not running too many tutors. I'm typically a tempo and aggro/control player. I play Faeries in modern, which is a deck that stands on the edge of a knife. It's just the way I love to play.
I noticed that you do have a lot of manifest cards (maybe even the maximum for Esper?) and you've stayed away from too many big targets. Really Emrakul, the Promised End, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Mind's Dilation being the best pay off cards.
Do find that you might want a few more big payoff cards? With Proteus Staff it feels like it would be nice to have at least one more big creature that you can Aminatou [+1] onto the top of your library for guaranteed big creature success.
I very much built my deck like a reanimator deck. I didn't want to stuff too many big threats into it, because I hate having them in my hand. This is also why I tried to choose permanents with lower or variable costs. Emrakul isn't so bad in hand if it's cost is reduced. The game plan is to tutor for something with a top of library tutor card, and then manifest and flicker it. Aminatou's [+1] as setup is a backup plan, and I try to avoid it because I don't want to telegraphy my intentions. Also, my permanent choice was based on cards that would be hard to answer, as I've often seen decks going for a reanimator plan only to get blown out by removal. Emrakul's protection from instants and Ulamog's indestructible hopefully dodges this.
You're right you can get an early value creature like Baleful Strix, Wall of Omens, Spellseeker, etc, into your graveyard from play for Sun Titan and Emeria Shepherd value plays.
You could even match it up with two of Knight of the White Orchid, Boreas Charger, Kor Cartographer, Solemn Simulacrum and Emeria Shepherd, so that when you put a Plains into play, you can return another of these and then sacrifice the other.
I've made sure I've pointed out that to get a loop going, you need two of them, because the landfall trigger happens straight away so you can't sacrifice the same creature to go to graveyard in response to then bring it back.
But if you did have two of them then you'll be able to get as many lands into play as the opponent who has the most.
So this is a pretty nice combo if you're up against a land ramp deck.
Also Hidden Stockpile is useful for the Academy Rector and Arena Rector combos, as a sacrifice outlet.
Too be honest I've never been impressed with this combo in that it still require 1 to get each 1/1. So really unless you match it up with some other card that also triggers creature entering the battlefield, or Ashnod's Altar, then it's a little weak in my opinion.
A few people in this thread are running Altar of the Brood in their lists. It absolutely does the job with Felidar Guardian. I personally would play Panharmonicon as another card to combo with Felidar Guardian. The reason is that Altar of the Brood on it's own does almost nothing, if not becomes a liability if you were to play it out early, as opponents often use their graveyards as a resource. Where at least with Panharmonicon you can get value from it with some of your ETB creatures. It does cost 3 more mana, and it's not tutorable with Trinket Mage, but I do think it's the better option.
Also a deck that runs Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre will stifle your plans.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Would you have to have two? You should be able to sac the creature while the ETB is still on the stack, and then search after the creature hits the graveyard. Nice line btw, didn't think of it.
Yeah I forgot to mention this. At least to me, it's enough to push the card over enough to probably be worth a slot.
Really? I've played against the combo in Modern, and it's pretty brutal. Being able to hold open counter magic, and then at end of turn create a 1/1 for each available mana is pretty amazing. And even in EDH, it's not going to be long until you've assembled a big enough army to defeat your opponents. And board wipes only slow it down. They only way to really answer it is to remove one of the combo pieces.
True, and if they're running Nexus of Fate and can cast it, you've probably just lost the game. That's why I don't run the card. I agree that Panharmonicon or one of the other combo pieces is more worth the slot.
I have played it in a Breya, Etherium Shaper deck, but I also had a lot of other synergies going on with it.
Of course in Modern it's pretty solid, as life totals are tight, and creature pressure and defence are a big part of the game. But it is a little slow and terrible against other combo decks.
Lets see the pro and cons specifically with Aminatou.
Pros
1/1 flyers are good at blocking.
If you have a few discard outlets, then Sword of the Meek can be discarded so doesn't take up a card draw as such.
Cons
Sword of the Meek is not a good card on it's own as an actual on-board presence.
Thopter Foundry on it's own does not have a lot of targets to sacrifice. Giving up artifact mana, is probably a desperation thing rather than winning plays.
Does require you invest mana into your flyers, which is very slow.
I guess this might just come down to a personal preference, as I can't really even see myself playing it in my Aminatou Artifact Armies deck.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I mean before the land enters. For example Knight of the White Orchid enters the battlefield and it's ability goes on the stack. Before the ability resolves you sacrifice him to Hidden Stockpile. Then after he's sacrificed you let his ability resolve and search for a plains, when the plains enters it triggers Emerica Shepherd's ability, at this point Knight is already in the graveyard, so it' s a legal target. When it enters, it's ability goes on the stack, before the ability resolves you tap the plains you searched for last time and sacrifice him, then you search etc.
Fair enough. The cards are definitely not strong enough on their own to justify running with out enough tutors to get them out. And even then it's questionable if they're worthwhile.
[EDIT]
The other thing I was thinking that Hidden Stockpile actually means I have an artifact each turn I can use to Throne of Geth. Because you just get another at end of your turn.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'd prefer to play Argivian Find in a version that has a lot of self milling effects like Careful Study, Thought Scour, to name a few, as it can be a sitting without targets for games.
I do play Argivian Find in a Sunforger deck and often you can have it in your hand for quite awhile without actually having anything to use it on.
Another pro of Argivian Find is that it gives you more access to artifacts and enchantments you want from your library with Intuition.
You can search for Argivian Find, Snapcaster Mage, and then whatever artifact or enchantment you actually want. This way you can get it no matter what opponents give you.
If you were inclined to run Archaeomancer in a deck, then you can match it up with Parallax Wave and Argivian Find to give you unlimited access to Parallax Wave.
Just a few more enchantments for reanimation that can tip Argivian Find as a good card for your build.
The Eldest Reborn, Unfulfilled Desires, Compulsion, Reality Acid.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
1x Ancient Den
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Darkwater Catacombs
1x Fetid Pools
1x Field of Ruin
1x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
1x Halimar Depths
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Irrigated Farmland
1x Island
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
3x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Prairie Stream
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Scrubland
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Skycloud Expanse
1x Sunken Hollow
1x Swamp
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Temple of Silence
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Baleful Strix
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Contraband Kingpin
1x Dark Confidant
1x Emeria Shepherd
1x Faerie Artisans
1x Felidar Guardian
1x Harbinger of the Tides
1x Hostage Taker
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Jeskai Infiltrator
1x Knight of the White Orchid
1x Lazav, the Multifarious
1x Silent Specter
1x Sun Titan
1x Thalia's Lancers
1x Twilight Prophet
1x Wall of Omens
Plainswalkers
1x Aminatou, the Fateshifter
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1x Liliana Vess
1x Liliana, Death's Majesty
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1x Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Instants/Sorceries
1x Arcane Denial
1x Brainstorm
1x Entreat the Angels
1x Entreat the Dead
1x Imperial Seal
1x Memory Lapse
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Negate
1x Remand
1x Soul Summons
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Terminus
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Write into Being
1x Act of Authority
1x Demonic Pact
1x Hidden Stockpile
1x Land Tax
1x Oath of Gideon
1x Oath of Jace
1x Oath of Liliana
1x Oath of Teferi
1x Phyrexian Scriptures
1x Primordial Mist
1x Search for Azcanta
1x The Eldest Reborn
1x Trial of Ambition
Artifacts
1x Heart of Kiran
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Amber
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x The Chain Veil
1x Treasure Map
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I built it mostly from memory, and I know for a fact that some of the cards are wrong.
I've decided to test out Inventor's Fair and the artifact lands in my main list. I'm hoping they won't interfere too much with Land Tax. With the Artifact lands I have 14 "sources" of artifacts, which I feel justifies the inclusion of Inventors' Fair. I'm also running Darkwater Catacombs and Skycloud Expanse which let's me be a bit more greedy with my colorless sources.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I actually intentionally choose Darkwater Catacombs and Skycloud Expanse as they make colorless sources more usable. An opening hand with Darkwater Catacombs and Inventors' Fair as lands is a better opening hand than Sunken Ruins and Mystic Gate.
So was working on my own primer for this deck, when I realized that you can use Tezzeret the Seekers's [-X] with Aminatou, the Fateshifter's [+1] to tutor for whatever card you need to close the game. Don't know if it's in your primer, but it's probably worth mentioning.
Can you explain further? Do you mean when you have an Oath of Teferi or The Chain Veil in play as well?
If so then what I normally do is search for Sensei's Divining Top, then you can demonstrate to your opponents how you can just draw your entire deck, by tapping it to draw a card and then searching it out again with Tezzeret the Seeker again.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Yeah that's what I mean exactly. Top works great too. Nothing wrong with having alternatives though. Especially ones that don't require additional cards.
What if we took that route with the deck? There are a lot of tutor to top of library cards. And there are enough card on top of library shenanigans to make it playable. All the manifest cards, Gate to the Aether, Proteus Staff, Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign, and Arbiter of Ideals. Plus Aminatou's [+1] makes tutors not strictly necessary to cheat. Counterbalance is solid incidental value that turns all top of library tutors instants into counterspells as well.
I might explore it.
Obviously with Vampiric Tutor I get to specifically choose this.
But there are a lot of times that you are wanting to use Aminatou [+1] to setup from hand, so running a number of redundancy for "broken" cards is beneficial.
So focusing on cheating cards from top of library here is a list that I've gathered from searching (note there will be more);
Aethermage's Touch, Djinn of Wishes, Aminatou's Augury, Brilliant Ultimatum, Enigma Sphinx, Knowledge Pool, Magus of the Mind, Mind's Desire, Oracle's Vault, Spellshift, Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign, Call to the Kindred, Deceiver of Form, Gate to the Æther, Jalira, Master Polymorphist, Mass Polymorph, Muzzio, Visionary Architect, Omen Machine, Polymorph, Proteus Staff, Pyxis of Pandemonium, Reweave, Riptide Shapeshifter, Shape Anew, Skill Borrower, Synthetic Destiny.
As you can see there are a lot of cards to support this archetype, and it has the advantage over say reanimation that you don't expose yourself to graveyard hate. Playing off the top of your library is a lot harder to interact with for opponents, although mill strategies can make it almost impossible to setup.
So you can go for a deck that looks to cheat not paying for a lot of massive spells this way.
I have a fair amount of experience with this archetype, I used to play a Kaho, Minamo Historian where I would search for Mystical Tutor and Spellshift with her. I would use Kaho to cast Mystical Tutor to search for Enter the Infinite, then in my upkeep cast any small instant spell, for example Brainstorm, then use Kaho to counter that spell with Spellshift, then I would be able to cast Enter the Infinite for free.
I too am keen to see what sort of deck can be configured around this strategy! Let the games begin.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
But it's still about finding that particular niche where Aminatou, the Fateshifter somehow trumps them for a particular build.
Well so far I'm thinking that at least if you are looking to cast "even" cards for free them this is where you might not play Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign.
Then Narset, Enlightened Master is specially non-creature, so this puts me into a build that's looking to abuse creatures.
So massive even casting cost creatures, lol.
Also manifest is the other advantage of Aminatou, so will be looking at a few select cards this way.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Don't know that I complete agree. And not just because of the mana cost, which I do think is a big deal (more on that later). When it comes to actually cheating, Yennett and Narset definitely take the cake. But in that regard Aminatou is in a totally different realm. Aminatou is a setup card with some minor cheat abilities(manifest). Aminatou is looking to run cards like Yennett and Narset, and Narset and Yennett are looking to run cards like Aminatou. Both decks are going to have vastly different playstyles. Yennett and Narset are value trains, cheating out as much as possible as fast as possible. Aminatou is more of a lazy deck, spending time getting setup while protecting their board. Probs more of a control deck than the other two.
And then mana cost. Your commander's mana cost is probably the single most significant cost in the game. Yenett and Narset are "stronger" cards than Aminatou but their costs are more expensive to make up for it. To put that in context; you can cast Aminatou once, let her die, and then cast her again by the time you could cast either Yenett or Narset. There's a point in a game of EDH when you stop wanting to draw lands. Maybe by turn 5-6 you think "well I don't really need more lands right at the moment, but I'll take more. I have a few big spells in my deck after all." But when you've got say 10+ mana on the battlefield, anything extra can just be excessive. This is even more true in Yennett, where at that point you could reasonably cast whatever you were planning to cheat out anyways.
And then finally, their's the point where your commander tax makes your commander uncastable. Would you rather draw two more lands, or would you rather draw a money card? Aminatou not only takes longer to get to this point, but also is faster and safer in that you can cast her and activate her before a removal spell forces you to cast her again. The same can't be said for Yennett and to a lesser extent Narset (Hexproof is a really strong ability on a commander imho).
This is good tho. Sounds like we both have very different ideas of how this deck should be built. Looking forward to seeing how your deck comes out!
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I like what you've done with it. I've always wondered what a token Aminatou deck would look like, guess now I know.
I'm still tweaking my deck. I went the more traditional route with it. Hopefully I'll finish it in a day or two.
I don't know if you've noticed it or not. But thanks to Synthetic Destiny and Mass Polymorph it's reasonably possibly to get to a situation where Proteus Staff let's you stack your library. You've got 16 creatures I think, so might be a little hard to pull off. But worth keeping in mind.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Also some of the emblems from the planeswalkers are pretty much game ending, with Narset Transcendent and Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. With Deepglow Skate it's very possible to get the emblems.
Parallax Wave and Felidar Guardian along with some other 'enter the battlefield' creature effect also goes infinite.
Entreat the Angels can be a finisher without Aminatou.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/aminatou-top-deck-manips/
I'd say your list is probably better. Not worthy difference is the inclusion of Mistveil Plains so that I'll always have access to cards in my graveyard.
I recently streamlined my list to better compete in my meta. I added Parallax Wave, and found it to be a lot stronger than I expected. I'll post the new list when I have the chance.
Another point for Suture Priest, as with Parallax Wave it can be used to burn opponents for 5 life a turn. Going infinite with Felidar Guardian.
I noticed that you do have a lot of manifest cards (maybe even the maximum for Esper?) and you've stayed away from too many big targets. Really Emrakul, the Promised End, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Mind's Dilation being the best pay off cards.
Do find that you might want a few more big payoff cards? With Proteus Staff it feels like it would be nice to have at least one more big creature that you can Aminatou [+1] onto the top of your library for guaranteed big creature success.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Nothing wrong with big fatties. My Saheeli deck is dedicated to ramping out stompy permanents out early. I just find the playstyle very linear. Get X card into your graveyard, and reanimate it with Y spell. Or in my deck's case, get X card on top of library, and cheat it out with Y spell and Aminatou. I tend to dislike combo for the same reason, but Aminatou is nuanced enough to be fun, so long as I'm not running too many tutors. I'm typically a tempo and aggro/control player. I play Faeries in modern, which is a deck that stands on the edge of a knife. It's just the way I love to play.
I very much built my deck like a reanimator deck. I didn't want to stuff too many big threats into it, because I hate having them in my hand. This is also why I tried to choose permanents with lower or variable costs. Emrakul isn't so bad in hand if it's cost is reduced. The game plan is to tutor for something with a top of library tutor card, and then manifest and flicker it. Aminatou's [+1] as setup is a backup plan, and I try to avoid it because I don't want to telegraphy my intentions. Also, my permanent choice was based on cards that would be hard to answer, as I've often seen decks going for a reanimator plan only to get blown out by removal. Emrakul's protection from instants and Ulamog's indestructible hopefully dodges this.
You are right tho, a few more big threats would probably help. Also, Mind's Dilation didn't turn out to be as strong as I'd hoped and could probably be replaced. If I were still working on the variant I could see myself pulling in Void Winnower, Iona,Shield of Emeria, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, or Ashen Rider.