MTG Salvation

Quote from Dumplings Forever »

I think you'll be happy with Diabolic Intent and of course Scroll Rack. Unnatural Selection does a lot of work for me despite the mana investment because I lean real heavy on a large number of evasive one drops. Like, I even run Standardize as a draw spell although I think that card's utility probably wouldn't be enough for your list.

Thanks for the heads up on Strip Mine and Mox Amber, I'm going to add those next chance I get. I, too, have really come to dislike most of my rocks so I'm happy for another cheap one that can do work.

I don't play much control but your words on 3cmc counters echo a friend of mine's. The only non-free ones above 2cmc he'll run have strong utility like Disallow and Cryptic Command.

Yup, when it comes to permission, the cheaper the better as it is the worst feeling to be unable to develop your board just for the possibility of someone doing something crazy.

Glad that these cards are working for you. I'm still trying to work with a decent number of 2 drops, although that's because they provide too much value. I should probably be more willing to overdraw to the point of discard, as given no other alternative there is no reason not to do so and it helps fuel delve.

I found some interesting things while digging through my cards.
Architects of Will, and Creeping Tar Pit both seem to work well here. Then some maybes, Beacon of Tomorrows, and Keeper of Keys seem okay as well.

Side question: did you think any of the partner commanders were worth a go? I tried Pir, Imaginative Rascal and Toothy, Imaginary Friend and they're pretty good with +1/+1 counter synergies, but the others seemed... bad? Seems like the only good things out of the set were the lands.

Could Rotting Rats have value in a list? It does hit you, but it also provides an interesting way to discard everybody repeatedly.

I'm not sure how much value self discard has in Delve/Big Spell setups. I know that self discard in moderation absolutely has value in high-end creature setups due to things like Volrath's Stronghold and Bone Harvest. I'm also sure there's some Reanimator Yuriko build idea out there in the aether that would love it as well.

I finally traded for a Force of Will... First time ever owning the card.. Yeeeea!

- Arcane Denial
+ Force of Will


Interesting games today. I was able to kill someone with an Ox ninja.

Have you considered running more split cards? Due to the rules change the CMC of the cost is the combination of both sides. That's pretty brutal when using Yuriko's ability.

I will consider whether I want more split cards once I assess the functional cmc of the deck and deem it stable.

Right now, I don't have enough testing to see if holding up 4-5 mana on certain turns is a feasible approach.

what do you think about adding more 1cc evasive creatures so Yuriko can be out by 2nd turn?

Quote from onoitsglen »

what do you think about adding more 1cc evasive creatures so Yuriko can be out by 2nd turn?

I want to do this if I get the chance. You don't want to have too many evasive weenies though because one untouched one can basically shuttle all of your ninjas and this deck doesn't have too much to help them out other than turning them into ninjas.

Quote from plushpenguin »

Quote from onoitsglen »

what do you think about adding more 1cc evasive creatures so Yuriko can be out by 2nd turn?

I want to do this if I get the chance. You don't want to have too many evasive weenies though because one untouched one can basically shuttle all of your ninjas and this deck doesn't have too much to help them out other than turning them into ninjas.

i was thinking more of Edric route chaining extra turns while dealing damaging but now that i think of it really depends on one of arcane adaptation, conspiracy and xenograft to be out and to really get the concept going.

how about adding Moxes?

Quote from onoitsglen »

Quote from plushpenguin »

Quote from onoitsglen »

what do you think about adding more 1cc evasive creatures so Yuriko can be out by 2nd turn?

I want to do this if I get the chance. You don't want to have too many evasive weenies though because one untouched one can basically shuttle all of your ninjas and this deck doesn't have too much to help them out other than turning them into ninjas.

i was thinking more of Edric route chaining extra turns while dealing damaging but now that i think of it really depends on one of arcane adaptation, conspiracy and xenograft to be out and to really get the concept going.

how about adding Moxes?

Moxes are fantastic. If you have a Chrome Mox (I don't), throw it in there! Costing a card is so much less impactful when you can recoup it with a Yuriko ninjutsu. If you have a Mox Diamond though, be slightly careful as you still want to hit your land drops.

Oh Temple should be Ancient Tomb.. I just haven't moved it in yet.

Gilded Lotus is still in the testing phase.

I've been tinkering with a very similar list. I came to a lot of the same conclusions as you about a number of the cards you're running.
If you're curious, here's the state of my list currently. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about any of the cards I've chosen.

Why did you come to the conclusion that Silumgar Sorcerer is bad? On paper it seems like it’d be really good (Sac Outlet for Yuriko, Ninja Enabler next Turn, AND Counter a Creature..)

Also, if you have a Chrome Mox, what would you consider cutting for it? A Land? (Could Vial be an alternative to Chrome Mox?)

I found that Silumgar Sorcerer's inability to hit noncreatures (the bigger problem) as well as requiring me to hold up three mana is too much for the deck.

MORE CHANGES

Okay, so more testing. Ninjas will win a lot if you don't give it ridiculous amounts of attention. I'm going to try out the "1-drop theory" a little more and see how it goes. Adding another evasive one drop.

Gilded Lotus and Levitation are ultimately cuttable. For the time being since I don't want to just throw in Demonic Tutor just for the hell of it I'll run a Walk the Aeons instead. Even just one extra turn does a lot for the deck.

Upgrading land base. Strip Mine is needed. Ancient Tomb should be in the deck.

- Gilded Lotus
- Levitation
- Temple of the False God
- Ash Barrens

+ Strip Mine
+ Ancient Tomb
+ Walk the Aeons
+ Triton Shorestalker

Is Expropriate too hard to cast compared to Walk? (Or is it potentially the Vexing Scuttler synergy that makes you choose it?)

If Strip Mine is needed, would Wasteland be overkill to have as well?

(I'm also same with Demonic Tutor, don't want to get another one, and don't want to just slam every tutor possible into a Deck just because it's Black.. Diabolic Intent is really nice in that regard, since it synergizes w/ Yuriko.)

I feel like we need to land u and b on our first 2 turns at least if you're running a lot of 1 drops. I think strip mine should be enough. We dont want to add to much colorless land imo.

running 32 lands + chrome mox, mox diamond, mana crypt and I having hard time casting high cc cards on regular basis.

Scroll rack is one of the MVP cards for me as we can keep putting high cc cards back on top of the library. What do you guys think about adding Jace, the mind sculptor for additional top deck manipulation?

I think it is far too difficult to protect Jace, The Mind Sculptor in a deck like this that almost doesn't understand the meaning of blocking.

I think Expropriate costs a little too much to cast unless we can get a Dowsing Dagger flip. The deck's max mana is around 7-8 in all of my games for the most part. This makes Temporal Mastery playable but anything above that isn't.

My next cut will probably be for Xenograft. You only have so many ninjas and it is difficult to get all of them through repeatedly without help. I run a decent amount of mass bounce for a reason. In fact, one of my main reasons for trying out more 1 drops is to deploy my forces more easily after my own mass bounce effects.

Speaking of Mass Bounce, is Devastation Tide worth it? I imagine you're using it in place of Cylonic Rift, so do you think I should bother running it if I have Rift? (I had originally ordered a copy just in case I needed it, but apparently the seller had an inventory error and didn't have one and refunded it.. I guess it's a sign? lol 'xD)

(Now I'm conflicted on if I should keep Expropriate in the Deck.. >_<) How many Time Walks is too much? I have Karn/Nexus in mine (but not Walk.) I guess I could cut Expropriate, even though it's potentially game-ending, and also semi-on-theme with Ninjas..

Quote from Sheriff-K »

Speaking of Mass Bounce, is Devastation Tide worth it? I imagine you're using it in place of Cylonic Rift, so do you think I should bother running it if I have Rift? (I had originally ordered a copy just in case I needed it, but apparently the seller had an inventory error and didn't have one and refunded it.. I guess it's a sign? lol 'xD)

(Now I'm conflicted on if I should keep Expropriate in the Deck.. >_<) How many Time Walks is too much? I have Karn/Nexus in mine (but not Walk.) I guess I could cut Expropriate, even though it's potentially game-ending, and also semi-on-theme with Ninjas..

If you have Cyc rift, use it instead. You can get it with Spellseeker if you run one. 7cmc is still fine when it is one-sided and allows to get in damage on the next turn.

I saw Bearer of Silence in someone’s Deck, and it looks like a really spicy Ninja Enabler.. That doesn’t need Colored Mana AND can force an Opponent to Sac a Creature..

It seems like people are quickly adapting to the deck. They are actually shooting up the 1/1 evasive creatures rather than any of the ninjas. I mean, I literally saw Anguished Unmaking aimed at an Ornithopter today!

I actually like Cavern Harpy for the lategame for this reason.

If you're having problems with removal in this manner, run an Invisible Stalker. Also, if you plan on playing mass removal that destroys creatures, you will need to plan ahead and keep an evasive creature in your hand to stand by for you to redeploy post-wipe.

For recovering post boardwipe how about adding more man lands? Inkmoth or blinkmonth are both cheap to activate and have evasive.

Quote from onoitsglen »

For recovering post boardwipe how about adding more man lands? Inkmoth or blinkmonth are both cheap to activate and have evasive.

I find running Inkmoth Nexus will pull opportunistic land destruction, because people will assume you're running some way to 10 infect them in one shot. I do like the idea of running Blinkmoth Nexus, though.

Also helpful for coming back from a wrath, I've been very happy with a couple of hasty enablers that were in the list I posted. Specifically, Gurmag Swiftwing and Nether Traitor.

I saw earlier mentions of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Bearer of Silence. I haven't seen the latter enough to have much of a judgement on it just yet, but it seems solid. As for Jace, while it's true that he's not super easily protected in this deck, I really like him. Brainstorm or bounce something, both help with the plan.

Excellent suggestion. Blinkmoth Nexus allows us to play additional evasive creatures without requiring additional nonland slots. Useful late-game when mana is less of a problem. Colorless is an issue but we can probably afford three of those kinds of lands.

Invisible Stalker now is a high priority include. The deck needs the means to push through repeatable removal.

1 drops have been decent. However, there is a noticeable dropoff in the lategame compared to cards like Bitterblossom or Baleful Strix.