Intruder Alarm is probably a better option than Reversal/Scepter, just sayin'.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
No problem. I've actually been testing out a more casual budget list that focuses more on the Aggro plan but still has the Paradox Engine combo lines. I personally prefer having some sort of combo line available to me so that I can close out the game after going back and forth with my opponents for a while. The list without the combo pieces is shown below. Check it out!
EDIT: I edited the OP decklist as well to remove cards to get it to the 100 card limit and to add in some cards that are more synergistic to the deck or simply better.
Aluren and Cloudstone Curio is an auto win, and Aluren is just a great way to navigate mana for your walls by itself.
I think its a mistake not to run Eerie Interlude and Ghostway. They have been my best draws most games. They give you a confidence that you can get value out of your walls early game, as you need to potentially still cast your walls, without Arcades in play. Then later in the game you can navigate around board wipes AND get lots of card draw.
@LouCypher Intruder Alarm is a card I've mostly forgotten about, honestly. I don't like that it helps my opponents' mana dorks, but it's a fine inclusion as an additional combo piece.
Aluren and Cloudstone Curio is an auto win, and Aluren is just a great way to navigate mana for your walls by itself.
I think its a mistake not to run Eerie Interlude and Ghostway. They have been my best draws most games. They give you a confidence that you can get value out of your walls early game, as you need to potentially still cast your walls, without Arcades in play. Then later in the game you can navigate around board wipes AND get lots of card draw.
Hmm, this is a great suggestion. Since most of the creatures in the deck are right at the Aluren limit, this seems like an incredible card. I'll be finding a slot for it definitely, since it actually makes an aggro plan viable. I'll just have to be careful about how much it helps my opponents as well.
In regards to the Flicker effects, I'm having trouble finding room for all the cards and strategies I think should be in the deck. I agree that Flicker effects are particularly strong with Arcades, I just don't know what to cut at this point.
EDIT: Village Bell-Ringer will be the card to go in place of Aluren. Aluren is just too strong with what this deck is trying to do and with Cloudstone Curio in play you can infinitely draw your deck with two walls and Arcades in play. I'm going to be tweaking the list even further, to see if I can tighten up some slots for more Defender creatures and better removal.
Another card to protect Arcades could be Shalai, Voice of Plenty.
Great suggestion! It's something worth considering, since this deck favors creatures over artifacts like Lightning Greaves, and the shroud being given to you is not inconsequential. Overall, I think I like the haste and equip 0 cost of the Greaves better than Shalai.
In regards to the Flicker effects, I'm having trouble finding room for all the cards and strategies I think should be in the deck. I agree that Flicker effects are particularly strong with Arcades, I just don't know what to cut at this point.
All thye combos lead to you drawing as much of the deck as you want, so it's actually win conditions that you can cut. Just pick one, or even none. What?
Aura Shards will remove all the artifact and enchantments to speed up the process of zero permanents in play for opponents..although you don't need this either as Mnemonic Wall and Beast Within can do the same thing with any permanent.
Because attacking with defenders will be lethal damage to ALL opponents, you can actually just pass the turn and kill people on the attack.
So there is actually no need for "win conditions", I don't run any and crush opponents the above methods.
In regards to the Flicker effects, I'm having trouble finding room for all the cards and strategies I think should be in the deck. I agree that Flicker effects are particularly strong with Arcades, I just don't know what to cut at this point.
All thye combos lead to you drawing as much of the deck as you want, so it's actually win conditions that you can cut. Just pick one, or even none. What?
Aura Shards will remove all the artifact and enchantments to speed up the process of zero permanents in play for opponents..although you don't need this either as Mnemonic Wall and Beast Within can do the same thing with any permanent.
Because attacking with defenders will be lethal damage to ALL opponents, you can actually just pass the turn and kill people on the attack.
So there is actually no need for "win conditions", I don't run any and crush opponents the above methods.
This is a great insight, comrade. I guess all the other win conditions I've put in the decklist are a little extraneous, huh? This is really great feedback, and I'll definitely be editing my list to streamline it and include your suggestions here.
I found another delightful discovery for the deck: Wall of Resurgence. Being able to animate your land base into hasty lands enables some really good synergies with Intruder Alarm and makes Temur Sabertooth + Village Bell-Ringer go infinite. It also opens up another infinite combo of having super huge and hasty lands to go for an alpha strike right on your turn.
I'm on the fence between Ghostly Flicker vs. Eerie Interlude/Ghostway. I think it comes down to what is more common in your playgroup: mass removal or spot removal. For the general Competitive Commander metagame, spot removal and counterspells are the primary means of removal whereas Toxic Deluge is kind of the only Wrath effect that is consistently played. Ghostly Flicker also has the outlier chance of going infinite with Gilded Lotus + Eternal Witness/Mnemonic Wall + Sunscape Familiar. Considering the playgroup that I play with most commonly, which has more mass removal than a general cEDH meta, I think I'll be using Eerie Interlude since it does help my board escape most wraths.
I still like Jungle Barrier because it draws cards without Arcades in play and becomes a Mulldrifter with Arcades in play. I also like Tree of Redemption for the chance to one-shot a player potentially, as long as they have less life than you. Junktroller is pretty decent graveyard hate, but Eternal Witness is more useful to the deck overall.
I added Gyre Sage in place of Mox Diamond because it has more synergy with the deck and can scale in mana production as we execute our primary game strategy.
So the overall changes are, to the best of my memory:
I still like Jungle Barrier because it draws cards without Arcades in play and becomes a Mulldrifter with Arcades in play. I also like Tree of Redemption for the chance to one-shot a player potentially, as long as they have less life than you. Junktroller is pretty decent graveyard hate, but Eternal Witness is more useful to the deck overall.
Too be honest the Whir of Invention is looking a bit dubious in this particular deck as a tutor. That would be the other card I'd remove for a counterspell.
As a player who might be interested in putting a commander deck together, would this be a good place to start?
From the looks of it i own most modern legal cards and can probably replace the legacy staples that are in this deck for the time being.
Also could someone give an estimation on the completed cost of the deck?
As a player who might be interested in putting a commander deck together, would this be a good place to start?
From the looks of it i own most modern legal cards and can probably replace the legacy staples that are in this deck for the time being.
Also could someone give an estimation on the completed cost of the deck?
The lands however are valued at $1,805, because of the revised duels and Gaea’s Cradle.
If you remove thse then you are looking more like $392 for the land base.
So that would be $750 all up, if you replaced those mega expensive lands with some alternatives.
Is it a good place to start for Commander? From your signature you seem to like creature decks, so it definitely not a bad place to start.
What I personally like about the deck, is that your Commander (Arcades) is not a huge priority for opponents to remove, so he tends to stay on the battlefield more than higher tiered decks. Plus the defenders do mean that you have defence up in more casual games. Quite often if your are one of these higher tiered decks, that have very few creatures, then you can get picked on and just killed via combat damage. It does happen.
But there are plenty of creature decks, so just depends how cheap ($) and how powerful you want your deck to be?
@untiger
At the last count, I see that there are 30 creatures with Defender and the Wall of Kelp to make more. I think that's pretty sufficient to be able to consistently draw off of Arcades' trigger. Generally, you want at least a quarter of your deck to have the Defender key word so that you can benefit from running Arcades as your Commander. So, in my opinion, I think that there are enough creatures with Defender currently in the deck that the Aggro plan is viable.
@SmauG
I think that Arcades is a pretty decent place to start. You can build him REALLY budget if you want while still having a strong game plan and combo potential. You don't need Aluren or some of the other more expensive cards in order to build an effective list. I posted an Aggro list earlier in the thread that is more budget but still effective. darrenhabib gave a great reference there and I'd also recommend posting the decklist in MTGSalvation's Deck Builder tool. It will give you a CMC breakdown of your deck as well as a Cost Analysis for it as well.
@darrenhabib Tree of Redemption can easily become a 0/32, depending on your life total. And between fetches, pain-lands, and some preliminary Aggro that we can employ, it becomes really easy to tap him on the End Step before your turn, make him a one-shot kill for an opponent, and then turn him sideways on your turn. The ability actually exchanges your life total with the Tree's toughness. I don't think I'll be cutting this Tree for that reason, in addition to being a 0/13 beater for the Aggro plan.
Whir of Invention is a card I go back and forth on in my head. Its sole purpose usually is to find Cloudstone Curio, which is one of the linchpins of this deck, or Paradox Engine. Both artifacts are massively useful and are integral to several combo lines. The other tutors in the deck are more creature-centric, and I think that the instant speed abiity to Chord in the combo piece you need during an opponent's end step is too powerful to pass up. I'll keep it in the decklist for a little while longer and see how it performs.
Great point about Fell the Mighty. I like that it's a one-sided Wrath effect for us, because we will nearly always be targeting a 0 power wall with it. Slaughter the Strong is... gah, I have mixed feelings about it. You'll probably be able to leave each opponent with most of their mana dorks, which is NOT good for slowing down their tempo. And right now many of the cEDH decks I see (and personally play against) use low-power creatures to generate value or execute their combos. This slot is definitely up in the air, in my opinion. It could easily become a different removal piece or Rest in Peace/[CARAD]Stony Silence[/CARD]. I'll go back and forth on that.
The mana base is pretty easy. With the removal of the Desert, I'll need to remove Wall of Forgotten Pharaohs too. Part of building a standard mana base usually includes one of the Shard/Wedge tri-lands, so that's an easy switch too.
I'll look at the decklist again and make some changes.
@untiger
At the last count, I see that there are 30 creatures with Defender and the Wall of Kelp to make more. I think that's pretty sufficient to be able to consistently draw off of Arcades' trigger. Generally, you want at least a quarter of your deck to have the Defender key word so that you can benefit from running Arcades as your Commander. So, in my opinion, I think that there are enough creatures with Defender currently in the deck that the Aggro plan is viable.
So the combo plan makes it so that you haven't used the aggro route thus far?
That's correct. The version of Arcades I'm playing is still running under the radar at the moment, but the Aggro plan is a really solid backup strategy in the case that you can't draw a combo piece or are otherwise unable to win on the spot. Having a (functional) 4/4, a 7/7, and a 5/5 attacking you each turn puts a lot of pressure on opponents, and that's just three creatures. One of the decklists I'll be posting on the main page is an Aggro strategy with some Stax pieces instead of counter-magic. Bant, as a shard, has a great color scheme and you can go in a ton of different directions with Arcades. Think about an Arcades Stax Aggro deck. Playing a Winter Orb while you have a field of huge walls that are ready to attack is no joke. I'm still fleshing that one out a bit, but it might even be better than the combo version.
Tree of Redemption can easily become a 0/32, depending on your life total. And between fetches, pain-lands, and some preliminary Aggro that we can employ, it becomes really easy to tap him on the End Step before your turn, make him a one-shot kill for an opponent, and then turn him sideways on your turn. The ability actually exchanges your life total with the Tree's toughness. I don't think I'll be cutting this Tree for that reason, in addition to being a 0/13 beater for the Aggro plan.
I personally don't think you're ever going to connect with it, so unless you are below 13 life, I wouldn't see much benefit from this card. Feel free to keep it in, but I'm sure you'll find your kill ratio with it is going to be low to none.
Whir of Invention is a card I go back and forth on in my head. Its sole purpose usually is to find Cloudstone Curio, which is one of the linchpins of this deck, or Paradox Engine. Both artifacts are massively useful and are integral to several combo lines. The other tutors in the deck are more creature-centric, and I think that the instant speed abiity to Chord in the combo piece you need during an opponent's end step is too powerful to pass up. I'll keep it in the decklist for a little while longer and see how it performs.
It's a great card, but all your artifacts are mana rocks, and it's the UUU that is the biggest concern. But it's not incorrect to play it, and just personally think it's going to be hit and miss when you do get to use it. Another Gaddock Teeg victim, but can't completely make a deck around one card opponents might play
Great point about Fell the Mighty. I like that it's a one-sided Wrath effect for us, because we will nearly always be targeting a 0 power wall with it. Slaughter the Strong is... gah, I have mixed feelings about it. You'll probably be able to leave each opponent with most of their mana dorks, which is NOT good for slowing down their tempo. And right now many of the cEDH decks I see (and personally play against) use low-power creatures to generate value or execute their combos. This slot is definitely up in the air, in my opinion. It could easily become a different removal piece or Rest in Peace/[CARAD]Stony Silence[/CARD]. I'll go back and forth on that.
My build actually has Stony Silence and Null Rod, as it's mana creatures that are my mana ramp (only Mana Crypt and Sol Ring I play).
You're right about Slaughter the Strong is not going to hit the mana dorks in cEDH. Fell the Mighty at least has the potential to knock those off. You do play a few off defender mana dorks yourself, so can also get punished, but I do think the deck needs at least one mass removal, so many games you are wishing for something like that.
So the only other cards that I swear by are Captain Sisay and Brago, King Eternal. At the same cost as Tree of Redemption you can get win conditions. You do have to wait a turn for both, but once online they do broken things.
If aggro isn't going to factor into your main plan A (combo) or plan B (which seems to be value) , then there's absolutely no point in playing Tree of Redemption.
I feel like the suggested Brago would give you way more mileage.
I feel this thread missed a great opportunity and could have been called "off-the-wall combos"
With all the discussion of aggro vs combo-centric builds and big gaps in budgets, figured I would drop my build here. It is not built for cEDH, rather, it was build as a more middle ground deck to play in friendly, yet semi-competitive games vs the likes of tier 2 and 3 commanders with okay builds. My version of Arcades lies more towards the aggro side, but definitely includes combo stuff in case Arcades gets hated out or the game starts to stall. I've played in about 5 matches now and won all of them vs things like Ezuri elves, Zurgo voltron/control, Kruphix control/combo, etc.
The deck is fairly budget, without really being too intentional. The manabase is pretty functional without the need for ABU duals or Gaea's. Strong consideration was given to running Teeg in the 99 because he doesn't really affect a whole lot of big cards in the deck, while hosing control pretty well (I ultimately decided against it because he can mess with some of my boardwipes though).
4x Arcades, the Strategist
Mana Sources (15)
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Sol Ring
2x Bloom Tender
2x Gatecreeper Vine
2x Incubation Druid
2x Overgrown Battlement
2x Sunscape Familiar
2x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Ulvenwald Captive
2x Vine Trellis
2x Wall of Roots
3x Axebane Guardian
3x Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Removal (12)
1x Swords to Plowshares
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Reality Shift
3x Beast Within
3x Knight of Autumn
3x Reflector Mage
4x Dusk // Dawn
4x Profaner of the Dead
4x Sower of Temptation
4x Venser, Shaper Savant
6x Bane of Progress
6x Duplicant
Card Draw (12)
1x Portcullis Vine
2x Orator of Ojutai
2x Pull from Tomorrow
2x Wall of Mulch
2x Wall of Omens
2x Wall of Blossoms
3x Carven Caryatid
3x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3x Mentor of the Meek
4x Guardian Project
4x Jungle Barrier
5x Mulldrifter
2x Eladamri's Call
2x Finale of Devastation
3x Chord of Calling
3x Drift of Phantasms
3x Wargate
Flicker Effects (6)
2x Jeskai Barricade
3x Cloudstone Curio
3x Eerie Interlude
3x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Ghostly Flicker
4x Temur Sabertooth
Utility (15)
0x Shield Sphere
2x Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
2x Stalwart Shield-Bearers
2x Wall of Kelp
2x Wall of Shards
2x Wall of Lost Thoughts
3x Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
3x Eternal Witness
3x Intruder Alarm
3x Quicksilver Wall
4x Aluren
5x Mnemonic Wall
5x Paradox Engine
5x Reveillark
6x Sun Titan
Lands (34)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Treva's Ruins
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Command Tower
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Mana Confluence
1x Flooded Strand
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Windswept Heath
1x Krosan Verge
1x Tundra
1x Savannah
1x Tropical Island
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Breeding Pool
1x Temple Garden
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Mystic Gate
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Flooded Grove
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Brushland
1x Prairie Stream
1x Canopy Vista
1x Sea of Clouds
1x Bountiful Promenade
2x Forest
1x Island
2x Plains
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Thanks for the pretty much making a list of the best toughness/cc & ability walls out there. It's a good place for me to start.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
1x Arcades, the Strategist
Mana Sources (15)
1x Sol Ring
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Elvish Mystic
2x Gyre Sage
2x Overgrown Battlement
2x Wall of Roots
2x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Vine Trellis
2x Ulvenwald Captive
2x Gatecreeper Vine
2x Sunscape Familiar
3x Axebane Guardian
5x Gilded Lotus
Removal (12)
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Nature's Claim
2x Reality Shift
2x Unexpectedly Absent
2x Curse of the Swine
2x Blink of an Eye
3x Beast Within
3x Slaughter the Strong
4x Profaner of the Dead
4x Dusk // Dawn
5x Fell the Mighty
2x Lightning Greaves
2x Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
2x Assault Formation
3x Crystal Shard
3x Mentor of the Meek
3x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
4x Temur Sabertooth
4x Gigantoplasm
4x Helm of the Host
6x Sun Titan
Tutors (4)
2x Eladamri's Call
2x Uncage the Menagerie
3x Drift of Phantasms
3x Wargate
Defenders of Helm's Deep (25)
0x Shield Sphere
1x Steel Wall
2x Doorkeeper
2x Wall of Omens
2x Wall of Blossoms
2x Orator of Ojutai
2x Cathedral Membrane
2x Jeskai Barricade
2x Wall of Shards
2x Wall of Junk
2x Wall of Mulch
2x Wall of Tanglecord
2x Fortified Rampart
2x Stalwart Shield-Bearers
3x Carven Caryatid
3x Wall of Denial
3x Wall of Frost
3x Wall of Air
3x Basilica Guards
4x Jungle Barrier
4x Tree of Redemption
4x Junktroller
5x Mnemonic Wall
8x Colossus of Akros
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Command Tower
1x Temple of the False God
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Canopy Vista
1x Prairie Stream
1x Fortified Village
1x Port Town
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Temple of Enlightenment
1x Temple of Mystery
8x Forest
5x Plains
5x Island
EDIT: I edited the OP decklist as well to remove cards to get it to the 100 card limit and to add in some cards that are more synergistic to the deck or simply better.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Aluren and Cloudstone Curio is an auto win, and Aluren is just a great way to navigate mana for your walls by itself.
I think its a mistake not to run Eerie Interlude and Ghostway. They have been my best draws most games. They give you a confidence that you can get value out of your walls early game, as you need to potentially still cast your walls, without Arcades in play. Then later in the game you can navigate around board wipes AND get lots of card draw.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Intruder Alarm is a card I've mostly forgotten about, honestly. I don't like that it helps my opponents' mana dorks, but it's a fine inclusion as an additional combo piece.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Hmm, this is a great suggestion. Since most of the creatures in the deck are right at the Aluren limit, this seems like an incredible card. I'll be finding a slot for it definitely, since it actually makes an aggro plan viable. I'll just have to be careful about how much it helps my opponents as well.
In regards to the Flicker effects, I'm having trouble finding room for all the cards and strategies I think should be in the deck. I agree that Flicker effects are particularly strong with Arcades, I just don't know what to cut at this point.
EDIT: Village Bell-Ringer will be the card to go in place of Aluren. Aluren is just too strong with what this deck is trying to do and with Cloudstone Curio in play you can infinitely draw your deck with two walls and Arcades in play. I'm going to be tweaking the list even further, to see if I can tighten up some slots for more Defender creatures and better removal.
Great suggestion! It's something worth considering, since this deck favors creatures over artifacts like Lightning Greaves, and the shroud being given to you is not inconsequential. Overall, I think I like the haste and equip 0 cost of the Greaves better than Shalai.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Remember infinite is infinite.
The thing is that once you draw your deck, your hand looks like this Cyclonic Rift, Arcane Denial, Mana Leak, Mana Drain, Counterspell, Negate, ...
With Mnemonic Wall and Beast Within you can turn all opponents lands into creatures, then the Cyclonic Rift will leave opponents with no mana.
Aura Shards will remove all the artifact and enchantments to speed up the process of zero permanents in play for opponents..although you don't need this either as Mnemonic Wall and Beast Within can do the same thing with any permanent.
Because attacking with defenders will be lethal damage to ALL opponents, you can actually just pass the turn and kill people on the attack.
So there is actually no need for "win conditions", I don't run any and crush opponents the above methods.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
This is a great insight, comrade. I guess all the other win conditions I've put in the decklist are a little extraneous, huh? This is really great feedback, and I'll definitely be editing my list to streamline it and include your suggestions here.
The decklist will be updated sometime tomorrow.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
[EDIT]
I don't like Jungle Barrier, Tree of Redemption, Junktroller, they are just way too slow, plus won't work with Aluren.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Reality Shift pairs well with the Beast Within loop to deck your opponents as well.
I'm on the fence between Ghostly Flicker vs. Eerie Interlude/Ghostway. I think it comes down to what is more common in your playgroup: mass removal or spot removal. For the general Competitive Commander metagame, spot removal and counterspells are the primary means of removal whereas Toxic Deluge is kind of the only Wrath effect that is consistently played. Ghostly Flicker also has the outlier chance of going infinite with Gilded Lotus + Eternal Witness/Mnemonic Wall + Sunscape Familiar. Considering the playgroup that I play with most commonly, which has more mass removal than a general cEDH meta, I think I'll be using Eerie Interlude since it does help my board escape most wraths.
I still like Jungle Barrier because it draws cards without Arcades in play and becomes a Mulldrifter with Arcades in play. I also like Tree of Redemption for the chance to one-shot a player potentially, as long as they have less life than you. Junktroller is pretty decent graveyard hate, but Eternal Witness is more useful to the deck overall.
I added Gyre Sage in place of Mox Diamond because it has more synergy with the deck and can scale in mana production as we execute our primary game strategy.
So the overall changes are, to the best of my memory:
1x Gyre Sage
1x Aluren
1x Intruder Alarm
1x Eerie Interlude
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thraben Gargoyle
1x Wall of Resurgence
1x Chord of Calling
1x Mox Diamond
1x Gatekeeper
1x Basilica Guards
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
1x Village Bell-Ringer
1x Mental Misstep
1x Cathedral Membrane
1x Fortified Rampart
The updated decklist looks something like this now:
4x Arcades, the Strategist
Mana Sources (16)
0x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Llanowar Elves
2x Gyre Sage
2x Overgrown Battlement
2x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Vine Trellis
2x Wall of Roots
2x Ulvenwald Captive
2x Gatecreeper Vine
2x Sunscape Familiar
3x Axebane Guardian
5x Gilded Lotus
Tutors (7)
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Eladamri's Call
3x Wargate
3x Whir of Invention
3x Chord of Calling
3x Drift of Phantasms
Removal (9)
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Nature's Claim
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Reality Shift
2x Gilded Drake
3x Aura Shards
3x Beast Within
5x Fell the Mighty
3x Cloudstone Curio
3x Intruder Alarm
4x Aluren
4x Temur Sabertooth
5x Paradox Engine
Utility (4)
2x Lightning Greaves
3x Eternal Witness
3x Eerie Interlude
5x Mnemonic Wall
Counterspells (7)
1x Spell Pierce
1x Swan Song
2x Arcane Denial
2x Delay
2x Counterspell
2x Mana Drain
2x Negate
Creatures with Defender (19)
0x Shield Sphere
1x Steel Wall
1x Thraben Gargoyle
2x Wall of Omens
2x Wall of Blossoms
2x Orator of Ojutai
2x Jeskai Barricade
2x Wall of Forgotten Pharaohs
2x Wall of Junk
2x Wall of Shards
2x Wall of Mulch
2x Wall of Tanglecord
2x Stalwart Shield-Bearers
3x Carven Caryatid
3x Wall of Denial
3x Wall of Resurgence
3x Quicksilver Wall
4x Jungle Barrier
4x Tree of Redemption
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Gaea’s Cradle
1x Seaside Citadel
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Command Tower
1x Mana Confluence
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Savannah
1x Breeding Pool
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Temple Garden
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Flooded Grove
1x Mystic Gate
1x Brushland
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Windswept Heath
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Flooded Strand
1x Polluted Delta
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Desert of the Indomitable
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Duh. Included because I forgot about this combo completely while I was dreaming up Paradox Engine combos.
-1Thraben Gargoyle
+Wall of Kelp
Decklist is updated as well.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I would definitely take out all the comes into play tapped lands (expect he conditional ones): Desert of the Indomitable, Seaside Citadel. I'd play a City of Brass and/or Arid Mesa, Scalding Tarn instead.
You really want a few more counterspells for competitive games.
Pact of Negation goes in all combo decks.
I'd add Disdainful Stroke and Flusterstorm as well.
Cards I'd still remove are Jungle Barrier and Tree of Redemption. Tree of Redemption is not Tree of Perdition. Are you getting the two confused? Tree of Redemption only effects you.
As you pointed out in cEDH often it's only Toxic Deluge that you run into, and a big reason for this can be Gaddock Teeg. So you might want to replace Fell the Mighty with Slaughter the Strong.
Too be honest the Whir of Invention is looking a bit dubious in this particular deck as a tutor. That would be the other card I'd remove for a counterspell.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
From the looks of it i own most modern legal cards and can probably replace the legacy staples that are in this deck for the time being.
Also could someone give an estimation on the completed cost of the deck?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/ is your friend for pricing, use this tool to enter in decks https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tools/deck_pricer#paper
However it's about $336 WITHOUT the lands.
The lands however are valued at $1,805, because of the revised duels and Gaea’s Cradle.
If you remove thse then you are looking more like $392 for the land base.
So that would be $750 all up, if you replaced those mega expensive lands with some alternatives.
Is it a good place to start for Commander? From your signature you seem to like creature decks, so it definitely not a bad place to start.
What I personally like about the deck, is that your Commander (Arcades) is not a huge priority for opponents to remove, so he tends to stay on the battlefield more than higher tiered decks. Plus the defenders do mean that you have defence up in more casual games. Quite often if your are one of these higher tiered decks, that have very few creatures, then you can get picked on and just killed via combat damage. It does happen.
But there are plenty of creature decks, so just depends how cheap ($) and how powerful you want your deck to be?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
At the last count, I see that there are 30 creatures with Defender and the Wall of Kelp to make more. I think that's pretty sufficient to be able to consistently draw off of Arcades' trigger. Generally, you want at least a quarter of your deck to have the Defender key word so that you can benefit from running Arcades as your Commander. So, in my opinion, I think that there are enough creatures with Defender currently in the deck that the Aggro plan is viable.
@SmauG
I think that Arcades is a pretty decent place to start. You can build him REALLY budget if you want while still having a strong game plan and combo potential. You don't need Aluren or some of the other more expensive cards in order to build an effective list. I posted an Aggro list earlier in the thread that is more budget but still effective. darrenhabib gave a great reference there and I'd also recommend posting the decklist in MTGSalvation's Deck Builder tool. It will give you a CMC breakdown of your deck as well as a Cost Analysis for it as well.
@darrenhabib
Tree of Redemption can easily become a 0/32, depending on your life total. And between fetches, pain-lands, and some preliminary Aggro that we can employ, it becomes really easy to tap him on the End Step before your turn, make him a one-shot kill for an opponent, and then turn him sideways on your turn. The ability actually exchanges your life total with the Tree's toughness. I don't think I'll be cutting this Tree for that reason, in addition to being a 0/13 beater for the Aggro plan.
Whir of Invention is a card I go back and forth on in my head. Its sole purpose usually is to find Cloudstone Curio, which is one of the linchpins of this deck, or Paradox Engine. Both artifacts are massively useful and are integral to several combo lines. The other tutors in the deck are more creature-centric, and I think that the instant speed abiity to Chord in the combo piece you need during an opponent's end step is too powerful to pass up. I'll keep it in the decklist for a little while longer and see how it performs.
Jungle Barrier will probably go in favor of Disdainful Stroke. The Stroke hits a lot of HIGHLY relevant cards in a cEDH game: Arcum Dagsson, Ad Nauseam, Paradox Engine, The Gitrog Monster, Captain Sisay, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Time Spiral, etc. Flusterstorm is definitely a worthy inclusion, but my current playgroup is a little Storm lite at the moment, so I don't need it in my current list at this moment.
Great point about Fell the Mighty. I like that it's a one-sided Wrath effect for us, because we will nearly always be targeting a 0 power wall with it. Slaughter the Strong is... gah, I have mixed feelings about it. You'll probably be able to leave each opponent with most of their mana dorks, which is NOT good for slowing down their tempo. And right now many of the cEDH decks I see (and personally play against) use low-power creatures to generate value or execute their combos. This slot is definitely up in the air, in my opinion. It could easily become a different removal piece or Rest in Peace/[CARAD]Stony Silence[/CARD]. I'll go back and forth on that.
The mana base is pretty easy. With the removal of the Desert, I'll need to remove Wall of Forgotten Pharaohs too. Part of building a standard mana base usually includes one of the Shard/Wedge tri-lands, so that's an easy switch too.
I'll look at the decklist again and make some changes.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
So the combo plan makes it so that you haven't used the aggro route thus far?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
It's a great card, but all your artifacts are mana rocks, and it's the UUU that is the biggest concern. But it's not incorrect to play it, and just personally think it's going to be hit and miss when you do get to use it. Another Gaddock Teeg victim, but can't completely make a deck around one card opponents might play
My build actually has Stony Silence and Null Rod, as it's mana creatures that are my mana ramp (only Mana Crypt and Sol Ring I play).
You're right about Slaughter the Strong is not going to hit the mana dorks in cEDH. Fell the Mighty at least has the potential to knock those off. You do play a few off defender mana dorks yourself, so can also get punished, but I do think the deck needs at least one mass removal, so many games you are wishing for something like that.
So the only other cards that I swear by are Captain Sisay and Brago, King Eternal. At the same cost as Tree of Redemption you can get win conditions. You do have to wait a turn for both, but once online they do broken things.
Captain Sisay can of course get Paradox Engine, but often it's also Gaea’s Cradle. However it's much better in my deck as I have 7 legendary cards to fetch.
Brago, King Eternal is blink on a stick and will take over the game quickly.
Both these guys are Tier 1.5 cEDH commanders for good reason, and even in your 99, can be hard to beat.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I feel like the suggested Brago would give you way more mileage.
With all the discussion of aggro vs combo-centric builds and big gaps in budgets, figured I would drop my build here. It is not built for cEDH, rather, it was build as a more middle ground deck to play in friendly, yet semi-competitive games vs the likes of tier 2 and 3 commanders with okay builds. My version of Arcades lies more towards the aggro side, but definitely includes combo stuff in case Arcades gets hated out or the game starts to stall. I've played in about 5 matches now and won all of them vs things like Ezuri elves, Zurgo voltron/control, Kruphix control/combo, etc.
The deck is fairly budget, without really being too intentional. The manabase is pretty functional without the need for ABU duals or Gaea's. Strong consideration was given to running Teeg in the 99 because he doesn't really affect a whole lot of big cards in the deck, while hosing control pretty well (I ultimately decided against it because he can mess with some of my boardwipes though).
1 Arcades, the Strategist
Creature
1 Wall of Kelp
1 Wall of Nets
1 Vine Trellis
1 Sunscape Familiar
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Sprouting Phytohydra
1 Wall of Denial
1 Overgrown Battlement
1 Stalwart Shield-Bearers
1 Tree of Redemption
1 Axebane Guardian
1 Gatecreeper Vine
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Hornet Nest
1 Wall of Omens
1 Doorkeeper
1 Quicksilver Wall
1 Wall of Shards
1 Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
1 Jungle Barrier
1 Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa
1 Carven Caryatid
1 Sun Titan
1 Oathsworn Giant
Enchantment
1 Intruder Alarm
1 Abundance
1 Spidersilk Armor
1 Aura Shards
1 Pemmin's Aura
1 Privileged Position
1 Builder's Blessing
1 Hold the Gates
1 Brave the Sands
1 Assault Formation
8 Forest
4 Plains
5 Island
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Mystic Gate
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Command Tower
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Simic Guildgate
1 Mana Confluence
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Prairie Stream
1 Canopy Vista
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Grove
1 Bountiful Promenade
1 Sea of Clouds
Artifact
1 Meekstone
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Slagwurm Armor
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Azorius Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Shield of the Righteous
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Sol Ring
1 Dragon Throne of Tarkir
1 Shield Sphere
1 Wall of Junk
1 Junktroller
1 Wall of Tanglecord
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Arcane Denial
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Counterspell
1 Congregation at Dawn
1 Return to Dust
1 Tower Defense
1 Swan Song
1 Eerie Interlude
1 Enlightened Tutor
Sorcery
1 Fell the Mighty
1 Dusk // Dawn
1 Slaughter the Strong