I had what I believed to be an optimized mana base for my Abzan Enchantress deck. Then these great dual lands from Battlebond were released and I feel like they are worth a slot, but I'm not sure where they fit in. I'm specifically looking at Bountiful Promenade since we only have access to allied colors at the moment.
Honestly it just depends on how many fetch lands or search for basics you have.
There isn't going to be any one way to rank these types of lands until you see a full deck list.
I do think they will be straight upgrades over the pain lands (unless you have eldrazi requiring colorless).
But a card like Wooded Bastion can get you the double color needed for a lot of cards, so it's not like you can just take them out for another. Just going to depend on the deck.
agreed with darrenhabib. I think the only lands they're an obvious prioritization over is other non-basic-land-type duals with some downside - stuff that might etbt like the fastlands or checklands, or that has a downside like painlands. Ofc these will sometimes etbt too, so you have to ask yourself whether that's more likely with a fastland/checkland/etc, and how much you're going to care in the likely situations that they do etbt.
Assuming you aren't playing 1v1, it's almost impossible for a fastland to be better than one of these lands. Checklands might be safer in a 2-color deck, but 3 and definitely 4-5 color they're at a decent chance to etbt (although less if you've got full duals/fetches). Although the fact that these new lands only etbt when it's 1v1 - usually very late-game - means that the time they'll etbt will be the time you probably care the least. Whereas checklands will etbt early-game when you might care a lot. So I think it's safe to replace either of those types with these.
Crafting ideal manabases is one of my favorite topics. I was contemplating creating an entire guide on the subject, but I settled for typing this instead. Hopefully my insights are useful to you.
The Goal:
The goal of a manabase is to allow a player to cast his or her spells as consistently as possible without overpaying for said consistency. On one end of the spectrum, you have underfixing. A three-color deck playing only basic land lands would be underfixed since it would have difficulty casting all of its spells consistently each game. On the other end of the spectrum, you have overfixing. A three-color deck playing 40 City of Brass (if it hypothetically were allowed to do so) would be overfixed since, while it would be able to cast its spells with perfect consistency each game, it would also grossly overpay for such a privilege. A manabase worse at colorfixing in this instance would actually be preferable since the diminishing returns of playing excess copies of City of Brass would outweigh the advantages of the additional consistency they provide. In this regard, the perfect manabase is one that plays a combination of lands which maximizes its consistency to whatever level deemed necessary and minimizes its cost. Too little fixing is bad, but so is overpaying for too much.
The Hierarchy
Generally, when it comes to crafting the ideal manabase, my hierarchy for four and five-color decks looks like what you see below. Decks with fewer colors will need to reevaluate, as the consequences of colorfixing lands are not uniformly impactful across decks with different numbered colors.
1. Gold lands with no downsides. This category usually just contains Command Tower and Exotic Orchard. 2. On-color fetchlands. With accompanying duals, these lands produce one mana of the color of your choice plus one mana of an additional color. 3. Off-color fetchlands. A fetch that can find only one of its two land types can still produce mana of whatever one color you want. 4. ABU Duals. Produce two colors at no cost. Worse than gold lands, but pair with fetchlands to effectively make them gold. A de-facto inclusion. 5. Other gold lands that enter the battlefield untapped. Cards like City of Brass, Forbidden Orchard, and Reflecting Pool are hard to evaluate because the consequences of playing them will differ from one deck to the next. Generally, I tend to skip over these since most decks tend to overfix by including them. They technically are the next best fixing option though. The cost is just usually too steep. Avoid for most decks. 6. All other manafixing dual lands. At this point, you've used up all the best colorfixers. Decks with four or five colors will likely only reach as far down as 6.1 since they'll be able to include more lands from the best cycles. Decks with fewer colors may dig down a little further since they won't be able to play as many lands from the same cycle. 6.1 Battlebond duals. The best dual lands without land types, bar none. 6.2 Checklands / Filter Lands / Painlands in no distinct order. 6.3 Shocklands. The most controversial placement on this list. More about this in the section below. 7. Basics. Just because basics are near the bottom of the list doesn't mean you shouldn't include some. Cards like Path to Exile, Veteran Explorer, Blood Moon, Ghost Quarter, and Wave of Vitriol are realities you're likely to face, and it pays to be able to find basic lands on occasion. In addition, basic lands double as fetchable targets, which is especially important for off-color fetchlands since off-color fetchlands are more likely to run out of fetchable lands than on-color fetches. Play as many basics as you think you can without negatively impacting your desired level of mana consistency. 8. Utility lands. Decks are going to play lands like Reliquary Tower that don't always contribute to colorfixing. You should play only as few utility lands as you think you will need because they tend to work against your goal, and you'll need to include even more colorfixing lands to compensate. Utility lands with marginal benefits are seldom worth playing, even in place of basics.
Sometimes, when building a manabase, it can be helpful to start from multiple angles. Include all the utility lands you know you will want, and then continue by including the best colorfixing available. Once you've included your utilities, golds, duals, and fetches, you'll likely find yourself with only a few remaining land slots. Some of those slots will be devoted to basics, and the rest will contribute towards colorfixing. By meeting the "needs" of your manabase first, you can dramatically eliminate the amount of room you need to consider lands for, making it easier for you to complete your manabase.
Why Shocklands Are Worse Than Most People Think
I have always held the belief that shocklands are generally terrible if you're trying to construct the perfect manabase. That isn't to say they're bad cards. Shocklands are obviously very good. They're just also usually outcompeted by other manafixing lands. This is because shocklands require players to take unnecessary damage if they want to create mana without tempo loss, thus leading to overfixing. As an example, compare Godless Shrine to Caves of Koilos.
In the early game, both Godless Shrine and Caves of Koilos can be played without loss of tempo. If it's necessary to create colored mana during this time, both lands are also able to do so at the cost of life. By the time a player would tap Caves of Koilos for more than two colored mana (so, at least three turns from the time it's played, maybe longer), it's incredibly likely that player will have also drawn some other source of those colors, making it incredibly unlikely for Caves of Koilos to ever exceed Godless Shrine in life loss. When the late game rolls around though, players won't generally need manafixing; they'll already have a plethora of lands from which to draw all the colors they need. As such, if played at this time, Godless Shrine can't generate mana at all without taking either a life or tempo loss. Caves of Koilos, on the other hand, can be tapped for C just fine, incurring no penalty at all.
This is Godless Shrine's biggest problem. No matter when you play the card, you must suffer damage if you can't afford the tempo loss. Other lands will afford you just as great manafixing without the additional drawback of causing life and tempo loss. Lands that conditionally enter the battlefield tapped (such as Isolated Chapel) are perfect examples of this provided the surrounding manabase supports them. (And between duals, fetches, and basics, most decks will.) Granted, if you can't afford ABU duals because they cost a fortune, then you're obviously going to play with shocklands as you'll need them to turn your fetchlands gold. In most other cases though, decks are better off exploring other alternatives.
A Note Regarding ETBTapped Lands
Lands that enter the battlefield tapped occupy an unusual space. They usually colorfix beyond what lands that enter untapped are capable of, but always at the cost of tempo. Generally, I find this exchange unfavorable. There are so many exceptional lands available which enter the battlefield untapped that I can't find a compelling reason to often play ETBTapped lands. Still, I do posit that ETBTapped lands can be used to great success if used sparingly. By strategically holding an ETBTapped land until a moment where it would otherwise be impossible to utilize the full amount of mana that could potentially be made in a turn, the tempo loss incurred by playing an ETBTapped land can be negated. For many three-color decks, I would include both Path of Ancestry and my associated tri-land. Consider these cards gold lands under category 5 of the hierarchy.
As far as the hierarchy of these lands is concerned, Path of Ancestry is the best among them, as the card always produces all of your colors and conditionally scries to boot. The next best ETBTapped lands are the tri-lands and the vivid cycle. For five-color decks, I think I prefer the vivids. They always produce whatever color you need without risk, and by the time the second counter runs dry, there's a good chance you've already found another source of that color. For four-color decks, I'm not certain between the two. The tri-lands' ability to produce 75% of one's colors 100% of the time isn't without merit, and the risk associated with a tri-land not producing the color one might need could outweigh the risk of a vivid land losing all of its usefulness. I doubt how frequently that would be the case though, and would likely err on the side of vivids.
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I am not a big fan of filter land (wooded bastion) in more than 2 colors deck. My problem is it can't work on its own, it needs another color to make it work.
Great write up @arrogantAxolotl! While I may value shocklands higher than you, I appreciate your insight. After starting this thread and taking some time to contemplate my own Abzan mana base, I realized I forgot about Horizon Canopy. I cut Brushland for Canopy to keep my amount of painlands at parity.
@sefenvold, I generally share your concern on the filter lands, but my third color (black) is such a light splash in the deck that I feel comfortable keeping it in. I came to this realization after reading through some comments and looking a little harder at my mana base. Wooded Bastion in this list helps early on to be able to cast Mesa Enchantress or Verduran Enchantress too.
I feel like Bountiful Promenade probably doesn't fit in this list. Wooded Bastion has never created an issue for me so far, and the Brushland slot has been replaced with Horizon Canopy. The ability to cycle itself away as well as enter untapped wins out over Promenade.
Why Shocklands Are Worse Than Most People Think
I have always held the belief that shocklands are generally terrible if you're trying to construct the perfect manabase. That isn't to say they're bad cards. Shocklands are obviously very good. They're just also usually outcompeted by other manafixing lands. This is because shocklands require players to take unnecessary damage if they want to create mana without tempo loss, thus leading to overfixing. As an example, compare Godless Shrine to Caves of Koilos.
While I agree with most of this in 60 card formats in commander with 40 life and being generally devoid of traditional aggro I feel you're overvaluing your life total. That said I'm also the guy blowing 8 life a turn on sylvan library or casting necropotence and spending 15 life to sculpt my hand. Reality is probably somewhere in between.
My rough hierarchy (3 color bases)
1 Command Tower
2 Zen/Ons Fetches
3 ABU Duals
4 Shocklands
5 Checklands
6 Painlands
7 Slow Fetches (grasslands, krosan verge)
8 Other Fetchable multilands (BFZ duals, Cycling duals murmuring bosk)
I have a bit of a soft spot for dumb enters play stuff Manlands, Scrylands (when combined with Karoos to rebuy them) but I wouldn't recommend them when helping others with their manabases.
I cant for the life of me understand why people play stuff like evolving wilds, Vivids, transguild prominade. Wizards has been pounding out a solid assortment of "Guildgates" over the last few years if budget is a huge concern.
As for battlebond lands I would probably be happier with them if they gave us the full 10 vs just the allied pairs.
I'm hesitant to cut basics because they are fetchable, immune to Blood Moon and Back to Basics, and I like having as many targets for Land Tax and Utopia Sprawl as I can afford. What I think may get the cut is either Brushland or Wooded Bastion.
What have you found yourself cutting to fit them in, regardless of the color of your deck?
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
There isn't going to be any one way to rank these types of lands until you see a full deck list.
I do think they will be straight upgrades over the pain lands (unless you have eldrazi requiring colorless).
But a card like Wooded Bastion can get you the double color needed for a lot of cards, so it's not like you can just take them out for another. Just going to depend on the deck.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Assuming you aren't playing 1v1, it's almost impossible for a fastland to be better than one of these lands. Checklands might be safer in a 2-color deck, but 3 and definitely 4-5 color they're at a decent chance to etbt (although less if you've got full duals/fetches). Although the fact that these new lands only etbt when it's 1v1 - usually very late-game - means that the time they'll etbt will be the time you probably care the least. Whereas checklands will etbt early-game when you might care a lot. So I think it's safe to replace either of those types with these.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The Goal:
The goal of a manabase is to allow a player to cast his or her spells as consistently as possible without overpaying for said consistency. On one end of the spectrum, you have underfixing. A three-color deck playing only basic land lands would be underfixed since it would have difficulty casting all of its spells consistently each game. On the other end of the spectrum, you have overfixing. A three-color deck playing 40 City of Brass (if it hypothetically were allowed to do so) would be overfixed since, while it would be able to cast its spells with perfect consistency each game, it would also grossly overpay for such a privilege. A manabase worse at colorfixing in this instance would actually be preferable since the diminishing returns of playing excess copies of City of Brass would outweigh the advantages of the additional consistency they provide. In this regard, the perfect manabase is one that plays a combination of lands which maximizes its consistency to whatever level deemed necessary and minimizes its cost. Too little fixing is bad, but so is overpaying for too much.
The Hierarchy
Generally, when it comes to crafting the ideal manabase, my hierarchy for four and five-color decks looks like what you see below. Decks with fewer colors will need to reevaluate, as the consequences of colorfixing lands are not uniformly impactful across decks with different numbered colors.
1. Gold lands with no downsides. This category usually just contains Command Tower and Exotic Orchard.
2. On-color fetchlands. With accompanying duals, these lands produce one mana of the color of your choice plus one mana of an additional color.
3. Off-color fetchlands. A fetch that can find only one of its two land types can still produce mana of whatever one color you want.
4. ABU Duals. Produce two colors at no cost. Worse than gold lands, but pair with fetchlands to effectively make them gold. A de-facto inclusion.
5. Other gold lands that enter the battlefield untapped. Cards like City of Brass, Forbidden Orchard, and Reflecting Pool are hard to evaluate because the consequences of playing them will differ from one deck to the next. Generally, I tend to skip over these since most decks tend to overfix by including them. They technically are the next best fixing option though. The cost is just usually too steep. Avoid for most decks.
6. All other manafixing dual lands. At this point, you've used up all the best colorfixers. Decks with four or five colors will likely only reach as far down as 6.1 since they'll be able to include more lands from the best cycles. Decks with fewer colors may dig down a little further since they won't be able to play as many lands from the same cycle.
6.1 Battlebond duals. The best dual lands without land types, bar none.
6.2 Checklands / Filter Lands / Painlands in no distinct order.
6.3 Shocklands. The most controversial placement on this list. More about this in the section below.
7. Basics. Just because basics are near the bottom of the list doesn't mean you shouldn't include some. Cards like Path to Exile, Veteran Explorer, Blood Moon, Ghost Quarter, and Wave of Vitriol are realities you're likely to face, and it pays to be able to find basic lands on occasion. In addition, basic lands double as fetchable targets, which is especially important for off-color fetchlands since off-color fetchlands are more likely to run out of fetchable lands than on-color fetches. Play as many basics as you think you can without negatively impacting your desired level of mana consistency.
8. Utility lands. Decks are going to play lands like Reliquary Tower that don't always contribute to colorfixing. You should play only as few utility lands as you think you will need because they tend to work against your goal, and you'll need to include even more colorfixing lands to compensate. Utility lands with marginal benefits are seldom worth playing, even in place of basics.
Sometimes, when building a manabase, it can be helpful to start from multiple angles. Include all the utility lands you know you will want, and then continue by including the best colorfixing available. Once you've included your utilities, golds, duals, and fetches, you'll likely find yourself with only a few remaining land slots. Some of those slots will be devoted to basics, and the rest will contribute towards colorfixing. By meeting the "needs" of your manabase first, you can dramatically eliminate the amount of room you need to consider lands for, making it easier for you to complete your manabase.
Why Shocklands Are Worse Than Most People Think
I have always held the belief that shocklands are generally terrible if you're trying to construct the perfect manabase. That isn't to say they're bad cards. Shocklands are obviously very good. They're just also usually outcompeted by other manafixing lands. This is because shocklands require players to take unnecessary damage if they want to create mana without tempo loss, thus leading to overfixing. As an example, compare Godless Shrine to Caves of Koilos.
In the early game, both Godless Shrine and Caves of Koilos can be played without loss of tempo. If it's necessary to create colored mana during this time, both lands are also able to do so at the cost of life. By the time a player would tap Caves of Koilos for more than two colored mana (so, at least three turns from the time it's played, maybe longer), it's incredibly likely that player will have also drawn some other source of those colors, making it incredibly unlikely for Caves of Koilos to ever exceed Godless Shrine in life loss. When the late game rolls around though, players won't generally need manafixing; they'll already have a plethora of lands from which to draw all the colors they need. As such, if played at this time, Godless Shrine can't generate mana at all without taking either a life or tempo loss. Caves of Koilos, on the other hand, can be tapped for C just fine, incurring no penalty at all.
This is Godless Shrine's biggest problem. No matter when you play the card, you must suffer damage if you can't afford the tempo loss. Other lands will afford you just as great manafixing without the additional drawback of causing life and tempo loss. Lands that conditionally enter the battlefield tapped (such as Isolated Chapel) are perfect examples of this provided the surrounding manabase supports them. (And between duals, fetches, and basics, most decks will.) Granted, if you can't afford ABU duals because they cost a fortune, then you're obviously going to play with shocklands as you'll need them to turn your fetchlands gold. In most other cases though, decks are better off exploring other alternatives.
A Note Regarding ETBTapped Lands
Lands that enter the battlefield tapped occupy an unusual space. They usually colorfix beyond what lands that enter untapped are capable of, but always at the cost of tempo. Generally, I find this exchange unfavorable. There are so many exceptional lands available which enter the battlefield untapped that I can't find a compelling reason to often play ETBTapped lands. Still, I do posit that ETBTapped lands can be used to great success if used sparingly. By strategically holding an ETBTapped land until a moment where it would otherwise be impossible to utilize the full amount of mana that could potentially be made in a turn, the tempo loss incurred by playing an ETBTapped land can be negated. For many three-color decks, I would include both Path of Ancestry and my associated tri-land. Consider these cards gold lands under category 5 of the hierarchy.
As far as the hierarchy of these lands is concerned, Path of Ancestry is the best among them, as the card always produces all of your colors and conditionally scries to boot. The next best ETBTapped lands are the tri-lands and the vivid cycle. For five-color decks, I think I prefer the vivids. They always produce whatever color you need without risk, and by the time the second counter runs dry, there's a good chance you've already found another source of that color. For four-color decks, I'm not certain between the two. The tri-lands' ability to produce 75% of one's colors 100% of the time isn't without merit, and the risk associated with a tri-land not producing the color one might need could outweigh the risk of a vivid land losing all of its usefulness. I doubt how frequently that would be the case though, and would likely err on the side of vivids.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
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Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Control
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@sefenvold, I generally share your concern on the filter lands, but my third color (black) is such a light splash in the deck that I feel comfortable keeping it in. I came to this realization after reading through some comments and looking a little harder at my mana base. Wooded Bastion in this list helps early on to be able to cast Mesa Enchantress or Verduran Enchantress too.
I feel like Bountiful Promenade probably doesn't fit in this list. Wooded Bastion has never created an issue for me so far, and the Brushland slot has been replaced with Horizon Canopy. The ability to cycle itself away as well as enter untapped wins out over Promenade.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
While I agree with most of this in 60 card formats in commander with 40 life and being generally devoid of traditional aggro I feel you're overvaluing your life total. That said I'm also the guy blowing 8 life a turn on sylvan library or casting necropotence and spending 15 life to sculpt my hand. Reality is probably somewhere in between.
My rough hierarchy (3 color bases)
1 Command Tower
2 Zen/Ons Fetches
3 ABU Duals
4 Shocklands
5 Checklands
6 Painlands
7 Slow Fetches (grasslands, krosan verge)
8 Other Fetchable multilands (BFZ duals, Cycling duals murmuring bosk)
I have a bit of a soft spot for dumb enters play stuff Manlands, Scrylands (when combined with Karoos to rebuy them) but I wouldn't recommend them when helping others with their manabases.
I cant for the life of me understand why people play stuff like evolving wilds, Vivids, transguild prominade. Wizards has been pounding out a solid assortment of "Guildgates" over the last few years if budget is a huge concern.
As for battlebond lands I would probably be happier with them if they gave us the full 10 vs just the allied pairs.
Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Green Black Control with Graveyard Advantages)
Standard
Probably Mono Red Sligh
Modern
Dredge
Legacy
Dredge
Agreed. Why, WotC? No BFZ Battlelands, No Bicycle lands, now no Battlebond Duals.
As a dedicated BW commander player, I'm most displeased.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR