If you really want to keep the spirit of Battlebond going, you can run cards like Arcane Adaptation and/or Conspiracy and Donate it to a team mate. That way your teammate or your second head will be able to also create warriors every time their creatures attack. You can also run Coat of Arms so that your team mate also benefits from having a legion of warriors.
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Song of Freyalise also has issues because it only affects the creatures in play when it gets it's counter. Kindred discovery is a forced draw which is why I'm not running it in my multiplayer list.
Song of Freyalise is only being played for the mana, so not really an issue with the final saga.
Let's do the math with Kindred Discovery. Let's say its 5 Warriors that attack. That will be 10 cards drawn. Then we use the additional attack ability. That's another 20 cards. So 30 cards drawn. That is a lot. My feeling about this however is that at that stage you have simply won.
We will assume you are not going for infinite with the Kindred Discovery in play, so you can just be not greedy and in the second combat phase attack with a lot less. This way if you draw into Cryptolith Rite or Song of Freyalise you can play it in your second main phase, and with your creatures having haste and you can dump a bunch of your hand, and most likely have counterspell backup for what your opponents are doing. You might be forced to use your own removal Kindred Discovery when you're going for the win next turn, but with 30 cards drawn, you're more than setup for these types of plays.
Should be a game winning card, if you sequence around it.
I added a few sections going through token strategies and Warrior Support. My personal takeaway, as far as doing Warrior things is actually to play the cards that morph your creatures into creatures from your library or into one in play. Mass Polymorph, Warp World, Kindred Summons, Mirrorweave. Kindred Summons is particularly appealing in Warrior tribal as it's an instant, so you can play around counterspells, waiting for opponents to tap out reacting to the board.
If you really want to keep the spirit of Battlebond going, you can run cards like Arcane Adaptation and/or Conspiracy and Donate it to a team mate. That way your teammate or your second head will be able to also create warriors every time their creatures attack. You can also run Coat of Arms so that your team mate also benefits from having a legion of warriors.
Boldwyr Intimidator would be a fun card to play with as well in teams with Najeela
I went down a similar path with my deck building for Najeela. However the strongest synergy I have found with her is going
T1 Warrior
T2 Warrior
T3 Najeela
T4 Wincon
T5 Wincon or Najeela from command zone or Najeela's ability
Tons of low cost 1cc and 2cc unique warrior creatures exist. Getting a low and consistent curve amplifies Narnam renegadeflameblade adeptaven skirmishermist-cloaked herald wild nacatalkruin striker
I went down a similar path with my deck building for Najeela. However the strongest synergy I have found with her is going
T1 Warrior
T2 Warrior
T3 Najeela
T4 Wincon
T5 Wincon or Najeela from command zone or Najeela's ability
Tons of low cost 1cc and 2cc unique warrior creatures exist. Getting a low and consistent curve amplifies Narnam renegadeflameblade adeptaven skirmishermist-cloaked herald wild nacatalkruin striker
The thing with this linear approach (not that my list isn't designed to be linear to an extent as well), is that when you compare this to say another commander centric strategy with Captain Sisay Paradox Engine build, it really is a sub-tier approach.
It's the same sort of thing where you are going:
T1 mana creature
T2 mana rock or mana creature
T3 Captain Sisay
T4 Paradox Engine and win
The reason I'm comparing these linear sequences, is that rather than one mana Warriors which are pretty weak, you get to play mana creatures/artifacts which are much more versatile (helps against Stax, better mana curves, etc). With Najeela you are also relying on drawing a T4 Win Cons.
Also the mana base to cast everything on mana curve seems crazy hard to get consistent.
With that said however, there are a lot of Warriors at one mana. I imagine it's best to play as many of the one drops that your mana base can support. This way you can play two on turn two as well.
If we assume no creatures getting killed, then you could have 56 warriors by the end of Turn 5. So if you have 3 opponents, that's 120 life to get through. In theory you only really need to have your creature at minimum as 2/1 creatures (even just through that last attack), as you've applied damage through the first attack, and some through the first four turns.
T1 Warrior
T2 Warrior + Warrior
T3 Najeela, 3 attackers, 6 Warriors.
T4 Win Con, 7 attackers, 14 Warriors.
T5 14 attackers, 28 Warriors. Najeela additional combat ability. 28 attackers, 56 Warriors.
First I want to explain something. The tokens come into play attacking so they do not prophet from any of the when attack cards such as shared animosity or fervant charge
I like your analogy with Captain Sisay Paradox Engine builds but the major difference is that paradox engine is 1 card and our combo does not require any single card to go off. This is a bit of an oversimplification and a bit of a stretch but a general theory is
T1 Any 1 drop
T2 Any 2 drop
T3 Commander
T4 anything
T5 WIN
I am nick naming this strategy 1 2 3 Najeela
The one drops are not as weak as you think they are. we have tons of pump cards and ways to give them evasion. All we really want is something that can at worst trade with a creature t3. Death touch is really good and any 2/1 body is probably good enough. Any 1/1 with evasion works too. Tattermunge maniac might be pretty bad in normal edh but here he can be quite the rock star.
The 2 drops are some of the best cards in the deck. Phantasmal image is another card that has not been mentioned yet either. Master biomancer is perfect! I can not believe I overlooked it. I personally cut down some really good 3 drops that ordinarily would make the list because they didnt fit the 1 2 3 Najeela strategy.
To answer your question about 4 drops possibly the best thing to do t4 is have a counter spell. My list is still under construction but I will be posting it soon.
First I want to explain something. The tokens come into play attacking so they do not prophet from any of the when attack cards such as shared animosity or fervant charge
I did an example of use in the primer with Shared Animosity. I'll just post it again. You can still see that the benefits are incredible even though it applies to "attacks", as you then get the benefit on the second attack as well.
Let's do a 5 attacker example. That's 10 attacking creatures, so the 5 that attacked get +10/+0 until end of turn. They are currently 11/1 Warrior tokens. Note that they will get trample, oh and lifelink. The newly generated ones are still 1/1's because they didn't attack. Let's assume 3 of the original get blocked and killed because your opponent with the least blockers has to block with so much damage. Activate Najeela WUBRG. We attack with 7 Warriors, so that's 14 attacking creatures. The 7 Warriors that attacked will get +14/+0, so there are 2 that are 25/1 Warriors, another 5 that are 15/1 Warriors, and the 7 new ones that will still be 1/1s. That's 132 worth of trample damage on the final attack, never mind the damage on the first attack!
I like your analogy with Captain Sisay Paradox Engine builds but the major difference is that paradox engine is 1 card and our combo does not require any single card to go off. This is a bit of an oversimplification and a bit of a stretch but a general theory is
T1 Any 1 drop
T2 Any 2 drop
T3 Commander
T4 anything
T5 WIN
I am nick naming this strategy 1 2 3 Najeela
To answer your question about 4 drops possibly the best thing to do t4 is have a counter spell. My list is still under construction but I will be posting it soon.
Alright, so let's say we have this sequence.
Turn 3 we are attacking with 2 warriors, so get 4. (4 Dmg)
Turn 4, attack with 5 Warriors, get 10 Warriors. (12 Dmg) Najeela has 3 power.
Turn 5 attack with 10 Warriors, get 20 Warriors. (22 Dmg). Additional attack with 20 Warriors, so 40 Warriors. (42dmg)
That's 80 damage naturally. So enough to kill 2 opponents if nothing is killed or blocked, which is fairly unlikely.
So my question is when you say turn 4 anything, you do still mean some sort of creature buff right?
But then you say best play T4 is a counterspell, so confused.
Super keen to see your list please post it! I think working the mana base, and making sure the turn 1 and turn 2 warriors are going to be as consistently playable as possible with the lands is probably the most important aspect of the deck. Any hiccup with the mana, is going to kill the strategy.
[/quote]
Alright, so let's say we have this sequence.
Turn 3 we are attacking with 2 warriors, so get 4. (4 Dmg)
Turn 4, attack with 5 Warriors, get 10 Warriors. (12 Dmg) Najeela has 3 power.
Turn 5 attack with 10 Warriors, get 20 Warriors. (22 Dmg). Additional attack with 20 Warriors, so 40 Warriors. (42dmg)
That's 80 damage naturally. So enough to kill 2 opponents if nothing is killed or blocked, which is fairly unlikely.
So my question is when you say turn 4 anything, you do still mean some sort of creature buff right?
But then you say best play T4 is a counterspell, so confused.
Super keen to see your list please post it! I think working the mana base, and making sure the turn 1 and turn 2 warriors are going to be as consistently playable as possible with the lands is probably the most important aspect of the deck. Any hiccup with the mana, is going to kill the strategy.[/quote]
I recently came to the conclusion that if it does 80 damage naturally then maybe we should put more effort into protecting it than adding more damage. This deck can certainty trap you into overkill. I just added a few counter spells today trying to test it out. I have probably tested over 300 cards for this deck in the past 2 weeks.
As far as he lands go unfortunately the best is the full set of fetch lands dual lands and shock lands and it costs a small fortune.
Overkill is definitely a thing. If protection was the higher aim, then really Turns 4 and Turn 5 and Turn 6 need mana available, for counters/protection.
I say Turn 6 because, either we tap out for the WUBRG on Turn 5, which means that we get blown out, if there is a Wrath of God type effect.
If we go naturally go to Turn 6 without using the additional attack in Turn 5, then our attacks look like this:
Turn 6 attack with 20 Warriors, get 40 Warriors (42dmg). Additional attack with 40 Warriors, so 80 Warriors (82 dmg).
So in theory that's 162 damage potential damage (including the the other turns), without a single buff card, but assumes no blocks or killed Warriors. So I think as long as the first four turns go without deaths, which is very possible with the weakest opponent (not offering much creature resistance), then you should be able to still produce 120 damage, enough to kill 3 opponents.
Obviously counterspells are the most versatile form of protection, but working in Blue mana sources, into the Warrior mana curve is problematic in my opinion. But I'd need to see what your expected sequence is for casting turn 1, turn 2 Warriors are.
Turn 4, can simply be about casting another Warrior, with counterspell (or protection) backup.
Same with Turn 5. This way we can ensure a little more consistency with creatures getting blocked and killed, and not having to worry so much about the numbers.
So because you have a large number of Blue cards, and it's super important that your mana base can support the blue mana, which is doable, but you need to have a very select color(s) for your Warriors. In my opinion it's far better to have them all in the same color pie, rather than the quality of what they do.
OK, I did a quick mock up of the sort of configuration I'd take with this idea of, 1 2 3 Najeela.
It would be almost pure Temur GUR. I've skewed the Warriors more towards blue and red. Blue mainly for Force of Will, Misdirection, Abjure backup and to get the mana base better. Red has the most synergies within it's own group of little Warriors, and making sure the Turn 3 red mana for Najeela is a consideration, so having less to worry about with color fixing is super important. The most important aspect of making this deck work imo.
The general idea is that it's mainly 1 mana cost Warriors, abilities count for very little.
There are 28 x 1 drops. 11 x 2 drops. 2 x 3 drops, beside Najeela.
The 1 drops are far more important than 2 drops imo, as you guarantee numbers. It's better to play 2 x 1 drops on Turn 2, then it is to play a 2 drop. Plus the numbers work out better for consistency of playing a Turn 1 Warrior. You have a 94% chance of playing a turn 1 Warrior.
The rest is mainly 0-2 mana counterspells and protection.
It really is Turn 3 Najeela, and then just ride it to victory to Turn 5 or 6. Countering everything that will actually stop you. Not all the counterspells are hard counters, but can actually be combined with others to probably stop the key cards that will stop your army.
With having so many cheap Warriors, the idea is to drop some more on Turn 4, holding up probably two mana, so either another 2 drop or possibly even another 2 x 1 drops.
The only non-land mana I'd play is Mana Crypt. Sol Ring is off the color mana curve we are doing in the fist two turns.
Besides counterspells and disruption, two tutors in Merchant Scroll and Mystical Tutor, to probably get Force of Will, or something you know can hard counter, as a potential Turn 4 or Turn 5 play.
I only have 2 Warriors that are off Temur colors in Honored Crop-Captain and Chief of the Edge in the 2 drop slot. I think even if you're casting these guys on Turn 4, then it can set you up to try and win on Turn 5 if you suspect opponents can't stop you, and then go for the additional attack.
The only 3 mana cards I'd play are, Champion of Lambholt and Edric, Spymaster of Trest. I think these cards are worth the variance you'd get on Turn 4 to play them AND hoping to have a 1 mana counterspell -OR- a Turn 5 play of these, then you can have your 2 mana counterspell.
It's all about the mana base, and getting the one-two-three punch at the start, so not always going to have a Turn 5, or even maybe Turn 6 WUBRG and that's OK. With so many counterspells you can probably get there without ever needing an additional attack.
I'm glad I brought up the Captain Sisay Paradox Engine analogy, because this is a completely different beast, in the fact that it is heavy blue disruption. Which means it has the capacity to stop others plans as well. It's more like Edric, Spymaster of Trest with it's approach, except rather than drawing cards, you are actually compiling the win condition on board.
But I do play against Edric a lot, and it is beatable by focusing on removing him before they get value. They try and cast it again on Turn 5, and of course everybody is waiting and ready to remove him. Sure enough without the commander the deck does nothing. Obviously this style of deck is exactly the same. It's essentially, "Do you have an answer for my commander right this second?". Yes=I probably lose. No=I probably win.
The same can be said for my primer deck list, but it does have additional themes, more mid-range resilience and certainly not looking to play a turn 3 Najeela and ride it all the way.
I'm keen to see if a true competitive build can come out of this idea albus_severus1511, let me know what you think on my take?
I have really enjoyed working on this project with darrenhabib. You are an excellent deck builder and I enjoy bouncing ideas off of you.
The Good News:
I have tested your deck and my updated version extensively in the past week.
These decks win a ton! This strategy is 100% viable and very competitive to the point that Najeela risks banning. I have crushed Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Captain Sisay combo, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, and Zur the Enchanter It is starting to resemble a hermit druid deck where the deck is built around a combo and protecting that combo.
Plan B: As you have noted this plan is fairly all in and linear. If it is disrupted we pretty much fall apart... until now. patriarch's bidding and immortal servitude are able to bring us back from the dead literally.
I doubled the amount of tutors because now they have the dual purpose of search for premium counter spells and alternate win conditions.
Heroic intervention is super versatile and does everything that we want. It may even be better than a counter spell because if a player is wrathing the board you don't necessarily want to counter it saving your opponents permanents.
Was metallic mimic intentionally excluded from your list? I may just be stuck in the previous mindset and I am probably wrong about this but I really like some of our 2 drops. Cutting our 2 manna X/X's is hard especially when x often is 6 or more
Next I want to explore your earlier statement of ramp not being good for us. I think that Sol ring, Three Visits and natures lore belong here to allow us to hold mana up to protect najeela when we drop her.
Heroic intervention is super versatile and does everything that we want. It may even be better than a counter spell because if a player is wrathing the board you don't necessarily want to counter it saving your opponents permanents.
Was metallic mimic intentionally excluded from your list? I may just be stuck in the previous mindset and I am probably wrong about this but I really like some of our 2 drops. Cutting our 2 manna X/X's is hard especially when x often is 6 or more
Next I want to explore your earlier statement of ramp not being good for us. I think that Sol ring, Three Visits and natures lore belong here to allow us to hold mana up to protect najeela when we drop her.
Is Frantic Search good in this deck? I think so but I could be wrong and want to open up the discussion on this.
Maybe I'm being a bit hasty on saying Sol Ring is not on color mana curve. As long as you can play a couple of one drops on the second turn then the math should be fine right?
So even a first turn Sol Ring, followed by two one drops -or- a two drop -or- even a one drop keeps us on course.
Or you can do a first turn one drop, second turn Sol Ring, and still play a two drop or a one drop.
So now that I've thought about it more, we should include it.
I see you've included white one drops, they are good ones, but obviously I'm concerned about the turn one/two fixing. Now we can try to work this in as best as possible, because the other thing I was concerned about was getting that Chief of the Edge and Honored Crop-Captain to work consistently on curve as well. So it's just about getting the land distribution correct. Now I was OK with the land base with being almost purely in Temur, but we just have to adjust for this bigger white splash. There is also more black in the deck with the tutors and Immortal Servitude
and Patriarch's Bidding.
So I think you should look to add/test these cards: Tarnished Citadel - slam dunk, forget about this card Unclaimed Territory - yup, perfect Forbidden Orchard - you can always choose the opponent you're going to attack last, so shouldn't care about 1/1s. Gemstone Caverns - can be awkward if not in opening hand, but I think I've pointed out the relevance of the additional attack, is not the most important part. So it's still fine as a land drop if you draw it after the fact..I think. Needs testing, but if you can kill opponents a turn quicker, and fix mana..yes please Thran Quarry - a little risky, but not often you're going to get removal on a dorky Warrior, and by the time you cast Najeela (i.e. the one that does get targetted), you should have one or two other creatures in play. Needs testing.
If some turn two land ramp cards are included, then I would like to see more one drops in your list. This means you can more safely get your threshold numbers. But I do agree that if you can turn 3 Najeela with a 1 mana counterspell or protection, you're far more likely to win.
I do think that Frantic Search is good in the deck. The thing is that the Warriors are purely for getting in starting hands. Sure you can keep more in hand for possible board-wipes, or just general removal, but ultimately you want to be converting Warriors in your hand into counterspells by turn 4. So good call.
Yup I have heaps of fun fine-tuning decks, thanks for posting and giving great ideas. Let's keep it up.
[EDIT]
On the things I said about Frantic Search, I think Brainstorm should be included. All the fetch lands are in the deck, so you can do that important turn Warriors into potential relevant spells after their used-by-date.
You have Syncopate listed twice, so that will free up a slot.
I think Brighthearth Banneret and Radha, Heir to Keld are worth a slots, as you can cast them on turn 2, and have a mana available on Turn 3 after casting Najeela, for a possible counter or protection.
I would look to add Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond to the deck as well, to give it a bit more speed.
Return to the Ranks is a card worth keeping an eye on. You've got the Immortal Servitude, Patriarch's Bidding, but also think about if Living Death was instead of one of these cards, and if it would have been a better choice in the game state when you cast the other cards. Because Living Death can act as a Wrath of God type effect as well. Will depend on what your opponents have, but I always like to think about rotating cards for particular slots, and theoretically looking at which cards would have been better in the spot when playing.
Now that I really look at Abjure, there is just not enough blue creatures to make this work, will have to be removed.
Hey guys. I've been thinking about building a version of this deck, and this thread has been super helpful, being so chock full of suggestions and theory crafting. I don't have a decklist finalized yet, but I will share it with the group when I get that far. One thing I will throw out up front is that I plan on running a much less consistent, combo-centric version, as the meta at my LGS leans much heavier into the casual side of things, as easily half of the players have gotten into the game since Theros (and some much more recently than that). Basically I'll go heavier on the tribal synergies and rely much more on bulk card draw than tutors. When the grizzled old timers want a crazy matchup, I bust out either Mizzix or Sisay
Anyway, the reason I'm chiming in before I've got a list together is to ask for actual thoughts on Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge. It's likely a meta thing, but a lot of the people I play with are big fans of Cyclonic Rift and Aetherspouts to keep themselves alive once they are declared the attack target, or Fog effects to do the same. I'm thinking that Tremors and Purphoros give me some game in those regards, especially since Aetherspouts and Fog *have* to let me attack, which is of course when the triggers start rolling in. Thoughts?
Anyway, the reason I'm chiming in before I've got a list together is to ask for actual thoughts on Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge. It's likely a meta thing, but a lot of the people I play with are big fans of Cyclonic Rift and Aetherspouts to keep themselves alive once they are declared the attack target, or Fog effects to do the same. I'm thinking that Tremors and Purphoros give me some game in those regards, especially since Aetherspouts and Fog *have* to let me attack, which is of course when the triggers start rolling in. Thoughts?
Purphoros, God of the Forge is the real deal, and even the 2R is relevant with Najeela.
I always like to do the math to check out how deadly it is.
Attack with 5 creatures. That's 5 Warriors coming into play for 10 Purphoros damage to all opponents, plus 10 damage from Warriors. Do an additional attack with 10 creatures, so that's 10 Warriors coming into play for 20 Purphoros damage to all opponents, plus 20 damage from Warriors.
So in a 4 player game, with 3 opponents, that would do 30 Purphoros damage, leaving them on 10 life each, and it just so happens that you are doing 30 trample damage with Warriors (that's if they were all 1/1s). There is a good chance everybody will be dead, or at least a couple of opponents, considering not everybody will still be at 40 life at that stage.
Goblin Bombardment is another card besides Impact Tremors you could look at, as you can control the opponents creatures as well, which is more interactive way of playing for causal games, rather than outright killing everybody. It's a good way of punishing the Cyclonic Rift player by chucking all the tokens at their face and/or killing their creatures.
I wouldn't be worried about fog effects too much, as you still get to generate tokens. As long as they can't keep it up forever. The old Spore Frog and Meren of Clan Nel Toth lock is a concern however. Hmm, I'm thinking about Purphoros for my deck now.
The reason I'm linking these decks, is to get an idea of how much removal cEDH sort of run. Because at the end of the day, your suggestions here are about "what if Najeela is removed?" and "what if all my creatures are removed?".
So there are 4 removal spells in each. There are really 2 counterspells which directly deal with creatures. 3 including Pact of Negation, but I think that is too late to mess with Najeela on Turn 3.
So with only 6 spells that interact with you, I think it's important not to go overboard with protection. So personally I don't think the deck needs more, otherwise you dilute the percentages of what you're trying to do.
Now once you get into the competitive, but not top-tier then, you run into more board-wipes, etc. So can get into situations where you get blown out, but I think it's important to aim for the highest tier first, and see how well the deck can compete.
It's probably correct to run Sylvan Library, but it does break from the overall mana curves we are looking for with our starting Warriors. But obviously it's a good backup card, if Plan A didn't work.
I think it's important to keep defining what makes this different from other competitive decks. Most cEDH are about "finding" combo cards. Even Edric, Spymaster of Trest decks still need to draw into their win conditions. So draw cards are much more important to those decks. We on the other hand have on-board win conditions (more akin to Captain Sisay Paradox), so as long as you have enough disruption to stop others and protect yours, then you can win. It'll be a fine line for this particular deck between spending mana for potentially drawing cards -or- having mana for basically counterspells. So that's why I don't think the draw type cards are not nearly as good for this deck as they are in others.
So with all this said it's just going to be a case of finding the balance between all these cards right? That will take some time to get the right ratios, and can only really be done by testing against the decks you really want to compete against. If we try and make this deck be able to play against too wide a range of commander decks, then you risk diluting it's potential in a true cEDH environment.
So it might be that even the Immortal Servitude and Patriarch's Bidding are too slow for cEDH, which has very few board-wipes. Now the Living Death is the card that I would personally look to play, as you can use this offensively as well, clearing the opponents boards, if you say do a reckless attack in their creatures on purpose to get a bunch killed.
I do like Apostle's Blessing, I run it in a number of decks. It's probably correct to run it over Dive Down, as it cost essentially colorless mana rather than blue.
Do we even really need these cards anymore since you seem to only have 2 equpments left which is lightning greaves and skull clamp.
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
Or did you just forget to take them out after all the equipment changes?
Deals with a range of creatures, the discard works well with a tutor heavy meta and can be used to throw out a few extra warriors.
Hmm, this card is actually pretty sweet. The thing is that you'll get games where all your creatures are Wrath away, and you want to setup with a threshold of creatures again, and as I've shown you only need a few Warriors and a few turns to get hordes. So being able to do it at instant speed, means that you can end-of-turn and get the ball rolling quicker than opponents might be ready for. Plus the 4 damage to creature and selective discard are things your might look to do through the course of the game. You could easily do the discard during the draw step of an opponent who you suspect might be looking to do a board wipe. As far as instant interaction, I guess it would be competing with something like Chaos Warp. I have to say personally I'd pick the Mardu Charm in this deck for the reasons above. Card I'd definitely like to try.
Do we even really need these cards anymore since you seem to only have 2 equpments left which is lightning greaves and skull clamp.
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
Or did you just forget to take them out after all the equipment changes?
I got very focused on the Sword of Feast and Famine, as it's a win condition, but since then I've figured out that infinite is not the be-all-end-all to the deck. So good call.
With how insane this deck can get cards like Kindred Discovery scare me, the thought of decking out by popping off too hard is a weird feeling
One poster was suggesting that Kindred Discovery, because it's a must, and not a may is too scary to play, but it is important to know exactly what you're looking to do with this card.
If you're drawing most of your deck then you will be able to Nature's Claim or Beast Within it. If you don't have the infinite at that stage you can go to your second main phase, make sure you didn't attack with a number of creatures, that have haste off the additional attack, and then drop a Cryptolith Rite or Song of Freyalise to get all the mana your need. Play Aggravated Assault and then kill everybody.
As long as you know what you are looking to draw into and how to sequence when you play a Kindred Discovery, then it'll win you the game every time.
Also in the description for the deck you mentioned Archangel of Thune is in the deck to work with the lifelink you give your creatues to keep them buffed up but through various iterations I am sure I see no way to give our creatures lifelink. Is it still worth the include of Archangel of thune or would you replace her at this point?
Also in the description for the deck you mentioned Archangel of Thune is in the deck to work with the lifelink you give your creatues to keep them buffed up but through various iterations I am sure I see no way to give our creatures lifelink. Is it still worth the include of Archangel of thune or would you replace her at this point?
It's Najeela, the Blade-Blossom herself which gives the lifelink, trample and haste to your attacking creatures, with her WUBRG ability.
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Let's do the math with Kindred Discovery. Let's say its 5 Warriors that attack. That will be 10 cards drawn. Then we use the additional attack ability. That's another 20 cards. So 30 cards drawn. That is a lot. My feeling about this however is that at that stage you have simply won.
We will assume you are not going for infinite with the Kindred Discovery in play, so you can just be not greedy and in the second combat phase attack with a lot less. This way if you draw into Cryptolith Rite or Song of Freyalise you can play it in your second main phase, and with your creatures having haste and you can dump a bunch of your hand, and most likely have counterspell backup for what your opponents are doing. You might be forced to use your own removal Kindred Discovery when you're going for the win next turn, but with 30 cards drawn, you're more than setup for these types of plays.
Should be a game winning card, if you sequence around it.
I added a few sections going through token strategies and Warrior Support. My personal takeaway, as far as doing Warrior things is actually to play the cards that morph your creatures into creatures from your library or into one in play. Mass Polymorph, Warp World, Kindred Summons, Mirrorweave. Kindred Summons is particularly appealing in Warrior tribal as it's an instant, so you can play around counterspells, waiting for opponents to tap out reacting to the board.
This way bigger really is better and you can pack in some premium Warriors, which these are my favorites, besides the ones not in my deck and the ones you mentioned Ryperior74:
Hazezon Tamar, Blaring Captain, Blaring Recruiter, Trueheart Twins, Honored Crop-Captain, Jazal Goldmane, Ogre Battledriver, Blood-Chin Rager, Sosuke, Son of Seshiro, Brutal Hordechief, Nacatl War-Pride, Samut, Voice of Dissent, Stonehoof Chieftain, Blood-Chin Fanatic, Mindblade Render, Brighthearth Banneret, Neheb, the Eternal, Brion Stoutarm, Furystoke Giant, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, Reyhan, Last of the Abzan, Varolz, the Scar-Striped, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Vhati il-Dal, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Champion of Stray Souls, Den Protector, Devoted Crop-Mate, Grim Flayer, Sedris, the Traitor King, Garna, the Bloodflame, Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs, Yasova Dragonclaw, Zealous Conscripts, Viridian Zealot, Warchief Giant, Surrak Dragonclaw.
Hmm, I could easily make 300 card deck and still struggle for slots.
Boldwyr Intimidator would be a fun card to play with as well in teams with Najeela
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
T1 Warrior
T2 Warrior
T3 Najeela
T4 Wincon
T5 Wincon or Najeela from command zone or Najeela's ability
Tons of low cost 1cc and 2cc unique warrior creatures exist. Getting a low and consistent curve amplifies
Narnam renegadeflameblade adeptaven skirmisher mist-cloaked herald wild nacatalkruin striker
T4 Win cons. These have high synergy and although they do always not win on the spot they often provide enough pressure to win the following turn
Sakashima the Impostor, anointed procession, ogre battledriver, raiders' spoils, parallel lives, alpha status
The thing with this linear approach (not that my list isn't designed to be linear to an extent as well), is that when you compare this to say another commander centric strategy with Captain Sisay Paradox Engine build, it really is a sub-tier approach.
It's the same sort of thing where you are going:
T1 mana creature
T2 mana rock or mana creature
T3 Captain Sisay
T4 Paradox Engine and win
The reason I'm comparing these linear sequences, is that rather than one mana Warriors which are pretty weak, you get to play mana creatures/artifacts which are much more versatile (helps against Stax, better mana curves, etc). With Najeela you are also relying on drawing a T4 Win Cons.
Also the mana base to cast everything on mana curve seems crazy hard to get consistent.
With that said however, there are a lot of Warriors at one mana. I imagine it's best to play as many of the one drops that your mana base can support. This way you can play two on turn two as well.
If we assume no creatures getting killed, then you could have 56 warriors by the end of Turn 5. So if you have 3 opponents, that's 120 life to get through. In theory you only really need to have your creature at minimum as 2/1 creatures (even just through that last attack), as you've applied damage through the first attack, and some through the first four turns.
T1 Warrior
T2 Warrior + Warrior
T3 Najeela, 3 attackers, 6 Warriors.
T4 Win Con, 7 attackers, 14 Warriors.
T5 14 attackers, 28 Warriors. Najeela additional combat ability. 28 attackers, 56 Warriors.
Turn 4 "win conditions" that I could find. I'm sure there are tons more.
Shared Animosity
Valor in Akros
Tah-Crop Elite
Beastmaster Ascension
Curse of Predation
Márton Stromgald
Ogre Battledriver
Ambuscade Shaman
Fervent Charge
Master Biomancer
Shaman of the Great Hunt
Anointed Procession
Parallel Lives
Second Harvest
Hellrider
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Epic Struggle
Mardu Strike Leader
Blaring Captain
Bramblewood Paragon
Honored Crop-Captain
Raiders' Spoils
Thrasher Brute
Sakashima the Impostor
Chief of the Edge
Goblin Wardriver
What are some other Turn 4 Win cons you run albus_severus1511?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I like your analogy with Captain Sisay Paradox Engine builds but the major difference is that paradox engine is 1 card and our combo does not require any single card to go off. This is a bit of an oversimplification and a bit of a stretch but a general theory is
T1 Any 1 drop
T2 Any 2 drop
T3 Commander
T4 anything
T5 WIN
I am nick naming this strategy 1 2 3 Najeela
The one drops are not as weak as you think they are. we have tons of pump cards and ways to give them evasion. All we really want is something that can at worst trade with a creature t3. Death touch is really good and any 2/1 body is probably good enough. Any 1/1 with evasion works too. Tattermunge maniac might be pretty bad in normal edh but here he can be quite the rock star.
The 2 drops are some of the best cards in the deck. Phantasmal image is another card that has not been mentioned yet either.
Master biomancer is perfect! I can not believe I overlooked it. I personally cut down some really good 3 drops that ordinarily would make the list because they didnt fit the 1 2 3 Najeela strategy.
To answer your question about 4 drops possibly the best thing to do t4 is have a counter spell. My list is still under construction but I will be posting it soon.
I did an example of use in the primer with Shared Animosity. I'll just post it again. You can still see that the benefits are incredible even though it applies to "attacks", as you then get the benefit on the second attack as well.
Let's do a 5 attacker example. That's 10 attacking creatures, so the 5 that attacked get +10/+0 until end of turn. They are currently 11/1 Warrior tokens. Note that they will get trample, oh and lifelink. The newly generated ones are still 1/1's because they didn't attack. Let's assume 3 of the original get blocked and killed because your opponent with the least blockers has to block with so much damage. Activate Najeela WUBRG. We attack with 7 Warriors, so that's 14 attacking creatures. The 7 Warriors that attacked will get +14/+0, so there are 2 that are 25/1 Warriors, another 5 that are 15/1 Warriors, and the 7 new ones that will still be 1/1s. That's 132 worth of trample damage on the final attack, never mind the damage on the first attack!
Alright, so let's say we have this sequence.
Turn 3 we are attacking with 2 warriors, so get 4. (4 Dmg)
Turn 4, attack with 5 Warriors, get 10 Warriors. (12 Dmg) Najeela has 3 power.
Turn 5 attack with 10 Warriors, get 20 Warriors. (22 Dmg). Additional attack with 20 Warriors, so 40 Warriors. (42dmg)
That's 80 damage naturally. So enough to kill 2 opponents if nothing is killed or blocked, which is fairly unlikely.
So my question is when you say turn 4 anything, you do still mean some sort of creature buff right?
But then you say best play T4 is a counterspell, so confused.
Super keen to see your list please post it! I think working the mana base, and making sure the turn 1 and turn 2 warriors are going to be as consistently playable as possible with the lands is probably the most important aspect of the deck. Any hiccup with the mana, is going to kill the strategy.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Alright, so let's say we have this sequence.
Turn 3 we are attacking with 2 warriors, so get 4. (4 Dmg)
Turn 4, attack with 5 Warriors, get 10 Warriors. (12 Dmg) Najeela has 3 power.
Turn 5 attack with 10 Warriors, get 20 Warriors. (22 Dmg). Additional attack with 20 Warriors, so 40 Warriors. (42dmg)
That's 80 damage naturally. So enough to kill 2 opponents if nothing is killed or blocked, which is fairly unlikely.
So my question is when you say turn 4 anything, you do still mean some sort of creature buff right?
But then you say best play T4 is a counterspell, so confused.
Super keen to see your list please post it! I think working the mana base, and making sure the turn 1 and turn 2 warriors are going to be as consistently playable as possible with the lands is probably the most important aspect of the deck. Any hiccup with the mana, is going to kill the strategy.[/quote]
I recently came to the conclusion that if it does 80 damage naturally then maybe we should put more effort into protecting it than adding more damage. This deck can certainty trap you into overkill. I just added a few counter spells today trying to test it out. I have probably tested over 300 cards for this deck in the past 2 weeks.
As far as he lands go unfortunately the best is the full set of fetch lands dual lands and shock lands and it costs a small fortune.
Overkill is definitely a thing. If protection was the higher aim, then really Turns 4 and Turn 5 and Turn 6 need mana available, for counters/protection.
I say Turn 6 because, either we tap out for the WUBRG on Turn 5, which means that we get blown out, if there is a Wrath of God type effect.
If we go naturally go to Turn 6 without using the additional attack in Turn 5, then our attacks look like this:
Turn 6 attack with 20 Warriors, get 40 Warriors (42dmg). Additional attack with 40 Warriors, so 80 Warriors (82 dmg).
So in theory that's 162 damage potential damage (including the the other turns), without a single buff card, but assumes no blocks or killed Warriors. So I think as long as the first four turns go without deaths, which is very possible with the weakest opponent (not offering much creature resistance), then you should be able to still produce 120 damage, enough to kill 3 opponents.
Obviously counterspells are the most versatile form of protection, but working in Blue mana sources, into the Warrior mana curve is problematic in my opinion. But I'd need to see what your expected sequence is for casting turn 1, turn 2 Warriors are.
Turn 4, can simply be about casting another Warrior, with counterspell (or protection) backup.
Same with Turn 5. This way we can ensure a little more consistency with creatures getting blocked and killed, and not having to worry so much about the numbers.
Counterspell suite:
Turn Aside
Mental Misstep
Spell Pierce
Flusterstorm
Swan Song
Abjure
Horrible Awry
Dispel
Envelop
Invasive Surgery
Remand
Arcane Denial
Unified Will
Delay
Mana Leak
Spell Rupture
Negate
Memory Lapse
Disdainful Stroke
Rites of Refusal
Rune Snag
Disrupting Shoal
Pact of Negation
Force of Will
Misdirection
Two colored mana - less appealing
Countersquall
Counterspell
Mana Drain
So because you have a large number of Blue cards, and it's super important that your mana base can support the blue mana, which is doable, but you need to have a very select color(s) for your Warriors. In my opinion it's far better to have them all in the same color pie, rather than the quality of what they do.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
It would be almost pure Temur GUR. I've skewed the Warriors more towards blue and red. Blue mainly for Force of Will, Misdirection, Abjure backup and to get the mana base better. Red has the most synergies within it's own group of little Warriors, and making sure the Turn 3 red mana for Najeela is a consideration, so having less to worry about with color fixing is super important. The most important aspect of making this deck work imo.
The general idea is that it's mainly 1 mana cost Warriors, abilities count for very little.
There are 28 x 1 drops. 11 x 2 drops. 2 x 3 drops, beside Najeela.
The 1 drops are far more important than 2 drops imo, as you guarantee numbers. It's better to play 2 x 1 drops on Turn 2, then it is to play a 2 drop. Plus the numbers work out better for consistency of playing a Turn 1 Warrior. You have a 94% chance of playing a turn 1 Warrior.
The rest is mainly 0-2 mana counterspells and protection.
It really is Turn 3 Najeela, and then just ride it to victory to Turn 5 or 6. Countering everything that will actually stop you. Not all the counterspells are hard counters, but can actually be combined with others to probably stop the key cards that will stop your army.
With having so many cheap Warriors, the idea is to drop some more on Turn 4, holding up probably two mana, so either another 2 drop or possibly even another 2 x 1 drops.
The only non-land mana I'd play is Mana Crypt. Sol Ring is off the color mana curve we are doing in the fist two turns.
Besides counterspells and disruption, two tutors in Merchant Scroll and Mystical Tutor, to probably get Force of Will, or something you know can hard counter, as a potential Turn 4 or Turn 5 play.
I only have 2 Warriors that are off Temur colors in Honored Crop-Captain and Chief of the Edge in the 2 drop slot. I think even if you're casting these guys on Turn 4, then it can set you up to try and win on Turn 5 if you suspect opponents can't stop you, and then go for the additional attack.
The only 3 mana cards I'd play are, Champion of Lambholt and Edric, Spymaster of Trest. I think these cards are worth the variance you'd get on Turn 4 to play them AND hoping to have a 1 mana counterspell -OR- a Turn 5 play of these, then you can have your 2 mana counterspell.
It's all about the mana base, and getting the one-two-three punch at the start, so not always going to have a Turn 5, or even maybe Turn 6 WUBRG and that's OK. With so many counterspells you can probably get there without ever needing an additional attack.
1 Najeela, the Blade-Blossom
One drop creatures (28)
1 Zurgo Bellstriker
1 Bloodlust Inciter
1 Flameblade Adept
1 Foundry Street Denizen
1 Goblin Balloon Brigade
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Goblin Fireslinger
1 Goblins of the Flarg
1 Godo's Irregulars
1 Mogg Sentry
1 Mudbutton Clanger
1 Orcish Captain
1 Somberwald Vigilante
1 War-Torch Goblin
1 Mist-Cloaked Herald
1 Proven Combatant
1 Tidal Warrior
1 Elvish Skysweeper
1 Hero of Leina Tower
1 Kin-Tree Warden
1 Narnam Renegade
1 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
1 Sunblade Elf
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Scuzzback Scrapper
1 Rhys the Redeemed
1 Tattermunge Maniac
Two drop creatures (11)
1 River Sneak
1 Sworn Guardian
1 Jace's Sentinel
1 Labyrinth Guardian
1 Earthshaker Khenra
1 Bloodmark Mentor
1 Brighthearth Banneret
1 Heartlash Cinder
1 Bramblewood Paragon
1 Chief of the Edge
1 Honored Crop-Captain
1 Champion of Lambholt
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Counterspells (21)
1 Arcane Denial
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mental Misstep
1 Abjure
1 Dispel
1 Flusterstorm
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Delay
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Horribly Awry
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Negate
1 Remand
1 Spell Rupture
1 Unified Will
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
Disruption and Protection (3)
1 Mizzium Skin
1 Dive Down
1 Cyclonic Rift
Tutors (2)
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
Artifact (2)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lightning Greaves
Land (31)
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Shivan Reef
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
I'm glad I brought up the Captain Sisay Paradox Engine analogy, because this is a completely different beast, in the fact that it is heavy blue disruption. Which means it has the capacity to stop others plans as well. It's more like Edric, Spymaster of Trest with it's approach, except rather than drawing cards, you are actually compiling the win condition on board.
But I do play against Edric a lot, and it is beatable by focusing on removing him before they get value. They try and cast it again on Turn 5, and of course everybody is waiting and ready to remove him. Sure enough without the commander the deck does nothing. Obviously this style of deck is exactly the same. It's essentially, "Do you have an answer for my commander right this second?". Yes=I probably lose. No=I probably win.
The same can be said for my primer deck list, but it does have additional themes, more mid-range resilience and certainly not looking to play a turn 3 Najeela and ride it all the way.
I'm keen to see if a true competitive build can come out of this idea albus_severus1511, let me know what you think on my take?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The Good News:
I have tested your deck and my updated version extensively in the past week.
These decks win a ton! This strategy is 100% viable and very competitive to the point that Najeela risks banning. I have crushed Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Captain Sisay combo, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, and Zur the Enchanter It is starting to resemble a hermit druid deck where the deck is built around a combo and protecting that combo.
The Bad News:
The one deck that gave me tons of trouble is Karlov of the Ghost Council
This deck is fast and they have several cards that all do the same thing. This reliable lifegain off of creatures etb really hurts us. They end up being able to remove our commander easily and gain tons of life.
Soul's AttendantSoul WardenAuthority of the ConsulsSuture PriestAyli, Eternal PilgrimAuriok Champion
Plan B: As you have noted this plan is fairly all in and linear. If it is disrupted we pretty much fall apart... until now. patriarch's bidding and immortal servitude are able to bring us back from the dead literally.
I doubled the amount of tutors because now they have the dual purpose of search for premium counter spells and alternate win conditions.
The Deck:
1 Zurgo Bellstriker
1 Bloodlust Inciter
1 Flameblade Adept
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Mardu Woe-Reaper
1 Aven Skirmisher
1 Mardu Hateblade
1 Goblin Balloon Brigade
1 Goblins of the Flarg
1 Orcish Captain
1 Somberwald Vigilante
1 War-Torch Goblin
1 Mist-Cloaked Herald
1 Proven Combatant
1 Kin-Tree Warden
1 Narnam Renegade
1 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
1 Sunblade Elf
1 Twinblade Slasher
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Scuzzback Scrapper
1 Tattermunge Maniac
Two Drops:8
1 River Sneak
1 Sworn Guardian
1 Jace's Sentinel
1 Labyrinth Guardian
1 Bramblewood Paragon
1 Chief of the Edge
1 Honored Crop-Captain
1 Metallic Mimic
Three Drops:2
1 Champion of Lambholt
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Counter Spells:21
1 Arcane Denial
1 Pact of Negation
1 Abjure
1 Dispel
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Delay
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Power Sink
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Negate
1 Remand
1 Syncopate
1 Spell Rupture
1 Unified Will
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Ertai's Meddling
1 Syncopate
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Frantic Search
Protection: 5
1 Steely Resolve
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mizzium Skin
1 Dive Down
Tutors: 4
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal tutor
Alternate Win Conditions: 2
1 Immortal Servitude
1 Patriarch's Bidding
Ramp: 1
1 Mana Crypt
Lands: 33
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 city of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Shivan Reef
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands
1 Breeding Pool
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Fetid Heath
Steely resolve is super good at protecting our commander and may even be better than lightning Greaves
Heroic intervention is super versatile and does everything that we want. It may even be better than a counter spell because if a player is wrathing the board you don't necessarily want to counter it saving your opponents permanents.
Was metallic mimic intentionally excluded from your list? I may just be stuck in the previous mindset and I am probably wrong about this but I really like some of our 2 drops. Cutting our 2 manna X/X's is hard especially when x often is 6 or more
Next I want to explore your earlier statement of ramp not being good for us. I think that Sol ring, Three Visits and natures lore belong here to allow us to hold mana up to protect najeela when we drop her.
Is stubborn Denial and abjure good enough in this deck?
Is Frantic Search good in this deck? I think so but I could be wrong and want to open up the discussion on this.
So even a first turn Sol Ring, followed by two one drops -or- a two drop -or- even a one drop keeps us on course.
Or you can do a first turn one drop, second turn Sol Ring, and still play a two drop or a one drop.
So now that I've thought about it more, we should include it.
I see you've included white one drops, they are good ones, but obviously I'm concerned about the turn one/two fixing. Now we can try to work this in as best as possible, because the other thing I was concerned about was getting that Chief of the Edge and Honored Crop-Captain to work consistently on curve as well. So it's just about getting the land distribution correct. Now I was OK with the land base with being almost purely in Temur, but we just have to adjust for this bigger white splash. There is also more black in the deck with the tutors and Immortal Servitude
and Patriarch's Bidding.
So I think you should look to add/test these cards:
Tarnished Citadel - slam dunk, forget about this card
Unclaimed Territory - yup, perfect
Forbidden Orchard - you can always choose the opponent you're going to attack last, so shouldn't care about 1/1s.
Gemstone Caverns - can be awkward if not in opening hand, but I think I've pointed out the relevance of the additional attack, is not the most important part. So it's still fine as a land drop if you draw it after the fact..I think. Needs testing, but if you can kill opponents a turn quicker, and fix mana..yes please
Thran Quarry - a little risky, but not often you're going to get removal on a dorky Warrior, and by the time you cast Najeela (i.e. the one that does get targetted), you should have one or two other creatures in play. Needs testing.
That's 5 land added. I think we should remove, Karplusan Forest, Yavimaya Coast, Botanical Sanctum, Spirebluff Canal, Shivan Reef.
If some turn two land ramp cards are included, then I would like to see more one drops in your list. This means you can more safely get your threshold numbers. But I do agree that if you can turn 3 Najeela with a 1 mana counterspell or protection, you're far more likely to win.
Personal Tutor is looking pretty average, it's too much card disadvantage to get a Demonic Tutor, Immortal Servitude, Patriarch's Bidding, which look to be the only targets.
So I'd take out a land and Personal Tutor for Three Visits and Nature's Lore.
I do think that Frantic Search is good in the deck. The thing is that the Warriors are purely for getting in starting hands. Sure you can keep more in hand for possible board-wipes, or just general removal, but ultimately you want to be converting Warriors in your hand into counterspells by turn 4. So good call.
Stubborn Denial does not seem good in this deck.
Yup I have heaps of fun fine-tuning decks, thanks for posting and giving great ideas. Let's keep it up.
[EDIT]
On the things I said about Frantic Search, I think Brainstorm should be included. All the fetch lands are in the deck, so you can do that important turn Warriors into potential relevant spells after their used-by-date.
I'm not a big fan of all the xU counterspells.
Mental Misstep can get the turn 3, Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile on Najeela, as well as stopping a good healthy amount of competitive spells.
You have Syncopate listed twice, so that will free up a slot.
I think Brighthearth Banneret and Radha, Heir to Keld are worth a slots, as you can cast them on turn 2, and have a mana available on Turn 3 after casting Najeela, for a possible counter or protection.
I would look to add Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond to the deck as well, to give it a bit more speed.
Return to the Ranks is a card worth keeping an eye on. You've got the Immortal Servitude, Patriarch's Bidding, but also think about if Living Death was instead of one of these cards, and if it would have been a better choice in the game state when you cast the other cards. Because Living Death can act as a Wrath of God type effect as well. Will depend on what your opponents have, but I always like to think about rotating cards for particular slots, and theoretically looking at which cards would have been better in the spot when playing.
Now that I really look at Abjure, there is just not enough blue creatures to make this work, will have to be removed.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Anyway, the reason I'm chiming in before I've got a list together is to ask for actual thoughts on Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge. It's likely a meta thing, but a lot of the people I play with are big fans of Cyclonic Rift and Aetherspouts to keep themselves alive once they are declared the attack target, or Fog effects to do the same. I'm thinking that Tremors and Purphoros give me some game in those regards, especially since Aetherspouts and Fog *have* to let me attack, which is of course when the triggers start rolling in. Thoughts?
I always like to do the math to check out how deadly it is.
Attack with 5 creatures. That's 5 Warriors coming into play for 10 Purphoros damage to all opponents, plus 10 damage from Warriors. Do an additional attack with 10 creatures, so that's 10 Warriors coming into play for 20 Purphoros damage to all opponents, plus 20 damage from Warriors.
So in a 4 player game, with 3 opponents, that would do 30 Purphoros damage, leaving them on 10 life each, and it just so happens that you are doing 30 trample damage with Warriors (that's if they were all 1/1s). There is a good chance everybody will be dead, or at least a couple of opponents, considering not everybody will still be at 40 life at that stage.
Goblin Bombardment is another card besides Impact Tremors you could look at, as you can control the opponents creatures as well, which is more interactive way of playing for causal games, rather than outright killing everybody. It's a good way of punishing the Cyclonic Rift player by chucking all the tokens at their face and/or killing their creatures.
I wouldn't be worried about fog effects too much, as you still get to generate tokens. As long as they can't keep it up forever. The old Spore Frog and Meren of Clan Nel Toth lock is a concern however. Hmm, I'm thinking about Purphoros for my deck now.
[edit]
Yup, I can search Purphoros, God of the Forge with Captain Sisay as a bonus, so playing it over Parallel Lives.
Added
+ Purphoros, God of the Forge
Removed
- Parallel Lives
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Robe of Mirrors
Alexi's Cloak
sylvan library is basically a repeatable brainstorm.
Apostle's Blessing
Enlightened tutor to find Steely resolve
Skyrider Elf
Living Death
Reanimate I think this seems pretty good just let najeela go to the grave if you can not save her.
Animate Dead
Also what do you think of the Plan B? Is their a better plan B? I think Living Death is in and Immortal Servitude is out
Cards like zulaport cutthroat or Blood Artist combined with Phyrexian Altar or some other non-mana sac outlet like Blood-chin Fanatic.
Or just Throne of the God-Pharaoh, made even sweeter with cryptolith rite and seedborn muse.
Also look at Opposition since we will likely have a lot of tokens to use it almost abusively.
Another card to look at to increase warrior synergy - Arcane Adaptation or conspiracy (which is strictly worse)
I'm just going to link two combo decks that are very fined tuned and well established:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/breakfast-hulk/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/food-chain-tazri/
The reason I'm linking these decks, is to get an idea of how much removal cEDH sort of run. Because at the end of the day, your suggestions here are about "what if Najeela is removed?" and "what if all my creatures are removed?".
So there are 4 removal spells in each. There are really 2 counterspells which directly deal with creatures. 3 including Pact of Negation, but I think that is too late to mess with Najeela on Turn 3.
So with only 6 spells that interact with you, I think it's important not to go overboard with protection. So personally I don't think the deck needs more, otherwise you dilute the percentages of what you're trying to do.
Now once you get into the competitive, but not top-tier then, you run into more board-wipes, etc. So can get into situations where you get blown out, but I think it's important to aim for the highest tier first, and see how well the deck can compete.
It's probably correct to run Sylvan Library, but it does break from the overall mana curves we are looking for with our starting Warriors. But obviously it's a good backup card, if Plan A didn't work.
I think it's important to keep defining what makes this different from other competitive decks. Most cEDH are about "finding" combo cards. Even Edric, Spymaster of Trest decks still need to draw into their win conditions. So draw cards are much more important to those decks. We on the other hand have on-board win conditions (more akin to Captain Sisay Paradox), so as long as you have enough disruption to stop others and protect yours, then you can win. It'll be a fine line for this particular deck between spending mana for potentially drawing cards -or- having mana for basically counterspells. So that's why I don't think the draw type cards are not nearly as good for this deck as they are in others.
So with all this said it's just going to be a case of finding the balance between all these cards right? That will take some time to get the right ratios, and can only really be done by testing against the decks you really want to compete against. If we try and make this deck be able to play against too wide a range of commander decks, then you risk diluting it's potential in a true cEDH environment.
So it might be that even the Immortal Servitude and Patriarch's Bidding are too slow for cEDH, which has very few board-wipes. Now the Living Death is the card that I would personally look to play, as you can use this offensively as well, clearing the opponents boards, if you say do a reckless attack in their creatures on purpose to get a bunch killed.
I do like Apostle's Blessing, I run it in a number of decks. It's probably correct to run it over Dive Down, as it cost essentially colorless mana rather than blue.
But I wouldn't play Robe of Mirrors, Alexi's Cloak, Enlightened tutor, Skyrider Elf, Reanimate,
Animate Dead, for the reasons I pointed out above.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
Or did you just forget to take them out after all the equipment changes?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The Stonehewer Giant is a Warrior so it makes sense to leave him in. I'll take out Godo, Bandit Warlord, but I have an incredible soft spot for Stoneforge Mystic. The Skullclamp is big game still. But probably more correct to run a generic tutor over it, like Diabolic Intent.
Added
+ Diabolic Intent
+ Raiders' Spoils
+ Mardu Charm
Removed
- Stoneforge Mystic
- Godo, Bandit Warlord
- Abrupt Decay
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
If you're drawing most of your deck then you will be able to Nature's Claim or Beast Within it. If you don't have the infinite at that stage you can go to your second main phase, make sure you didn't attack with a number of creatures, that have haste off the additional attack, and then drop a Cryptolith Rite or Song of Freyalise to get all the mana your need. Play Aggravated Assault and then kill everybody.
As long as you know what you are looking to draw into and how to sequence when you play a Kindred Discovery, then it'll win you the game every time.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith