"Give me eight thopters and I'll give you the game" -Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
This is build from converting my Padeem, Consul of Innovation deck to Jhoira. Ever sice Storm the Vault came out, I wanted to run it in a deck. Now that we get Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain in Dominaria, I'm putting Padeem in the 99 and Jhoira at the helm. The deck used to be about reaching nigh-invulnerability with Padeem + Mycosynth Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Platinum Angel/Platinum Emperion. However, it was struggling to close a game. That's why I have been looking for good ways to win. So the deck's plan is to durdle along building up more and more towards invulnerability until it can close out the game through one of the ways described below the decklist:
The deck can recur everything. Artifacts can be recurred through welding thopters and treasure tokens as well as with Buried Ruin and Academy Ruins. Lands can be recurred through Crucible of Worlds. Creatures can be recurred through Haunted Fengraf. All types can be recurred through Codex Shredder.
I'd love to hear opinions and suggestions how to improve this deck further. In particular, I'd like to find room for some removal and/or countermagic but don't know what to cut at this point.
Hellkite Tyrant is dangerous. If someone clones it / takes it, gives it haste and connects on you, they take your entire board. Feldon of the Third Path seems like it could be very cute in your deck. Same for Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer.
Cards like Foundry Inspector and Etherium Sculptor should also be considered, as well as Semblance Anvil - exiling an artifact creature with it causes both artifacts and creatures to cost 2 less.
BTW, what is the card Thopters supposed to be?
Hellkite Tyrant is dangerous. If someone clones it / takes it, gives it haste and connects on you, they take your entire board. Feldon of the Third Path seems like it could be very cute in your deck. Same for Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer.
Cards like Foundry Inspector and Etherium Sculptor should also be considered, as well as Semblance Anvil - exiling an artifact creature with it causes both artifacts and creatures to cost 2 less.
BTW, what is the card Thopters supposed to be?
Hmm, I never thought of the Tyrant as a liability in that way. Since I'm looking for cuts anyway I will take it out. Etherium Sculptor in already included under the ramp secton.
I have doubts about Semblance Anvil. On one hand, it's effect is very strong. On the other hand, it really invites being destroyed since you invest 2 cards in it, much like Extraplanar Lens. With most of my decks being artifact anyway, I feel maybe Cloud Key is the saver choice. If people want to spend their removal on it that's fine. If not, it's fine as well.
I can see Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer being usefull, sacrificing Thopters instead of something important, but I think Feldon of the Third Path is actually better (Don't know how i missed that) as he can jump start additional recursion shenanigans by reanimating Myr Retriever and friends. Reanimating a Wurmcoil Engine is solid as well.
The card Thopters is actually not a card at all but was a faulty link in Excel
Semblance Anvil - As others have noted, exile artifact creature, so you can help our creatures and artifacts
The Immortal Sun - Can be a little pricey, but does indeed reduce overall costs of spells
Helm of Awakening - Be careful with this one, as it is group hug and will effect everyone, not just you
Herald of Kozilek - A real sleeper, as it does reduce the cost of COLORLESS artifacts. Won't help Etherium Sculptor out, but covers a great deal of what is going on in this deck
I left the Mycosynth Golem off the list, as it specifies Artifact Creatures ONLY get the benefits of Affinity. In my build I am not running Mycosynth Lattice, so it is not as big a deal for me.
I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
Ping all opponents for 1 per each thopter entering the battlefield via Reckless Fireweaver
Great suggestions, but I'm not looking to go infinite with this deck. I don't really like it all that much personally and in my group, if they know you play infinite combo, it's archenemy from the get go. And this deck will not be holding it's own against that. I know the deck already has a way of going infinite but it requires 4 cards that each all have their place in the deck and it's not something i specifically tutor for so then it's ok. I realize that's completely subjective but it's my reality though
Sembalance Anvil - As others have noted, exile artifact creature, so you can help our creatures and artifacts
The Immortal Sun - Can be a little pricey, but does indeed reduce overall costs of spells
Helm of Awakening - Be careful with this one, as it is group hug and will effect everyone, not just you
Herald of Kozilek - A real sleeper, as it does reduce the cost of COLORLESS artifacts. Won't help Etherium Sculptor out, but covers a great deal of what is going on in this deck
Nice list, I'm going to remember this. I think once you get 2 or more discount on your artifacts Jhoira will have you blazing through the deck. I expect Daretti, Scrap Savant to do some heavy lifting in this deck, so the Immortal Sun seems out of place. However, if I decide to take him out the The Immortal Sun is definitly a good replacement. I love the card actually, it's just that the neutering of planeswalkers somehow always prevents me from running it.
Top is good in any deck, is there a specific (and probably obvious) interaction I'm missing here?
Also, I must find space for Artificer's Assistant. This thing is absolutely nuts with Jhoira, conveniently scrying away possible non-historic draws. Also, I completely forgot to include Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots which I think I will need to protect Jhoira. Any ideas on possible cuts?
Great suggestions, but I'm not looking to go infinite with this deck. I don't really like it all that much personally and in my group, if they know you play infinite combo, it's archenemy from the get go. And this deck will not be holding it's own against that. I know the deck already has a way of going infinite but it requires 4 cards that each all have their place in the deck and it's not something i specifically tutor for so then it's ok. I realize that's completely subjective but it's my reality though
I can understand that. I have one group that is not as salty when I play inf combos. Another that is so aggressive that I have to play the one up, go big or go home style. I get you gotta play to the strengths as well.
Nice list, I'm going to remember this. I think once you get 2 or more discount on your artifacts Jhoira will have you blazing through the deck. I expect Daretti, Scrap Savant to do some heavy lifting in this deck, so the Immortal Sun seems out of place. However, if I decide to take him out the The Immortal Sun is definitely a good replacement. I love the card actually, it's just that the neutering of planeswalkers somehow always prevents me from running it.
I understand this choice as well. Given the aggressive nature of my playgroups in general, Planeswalkers are commonly null to nonexistent in my decks. In truth, I was going for a comprehensive list of reductions, which would include Sun. We should also include Jhoira's Familiar. If you are leaning heavy on the Sagas, Legendary creatures, and artifacts, this should be heavily considered as well.
Top is good in any deck, is there a specific (and probably obvious) interaction I'm missing here?
With enough artifact hits through tops filter ability and artifact cost reduction, you can draw a great deal of your deck. Just helps keep things super consistent.
Also, I must find space for Artificer's Assistant. This thing is absolutely nuts with Jhoira, conveniently scrying away possible non-historic draws. Also, I completely forgot to include Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots which I think I will need to protect Jhoira. Any ideas on possible cuts?
I do not see a way to generate infinite Mana, let alone colored mana if you do not have the Mycosynth Lattice out. Bearing this in mind, I would contemplate cutting Memnarch.
The Thopters section has some heavy hitters on the CMC curve. With no great way to consistently hit that (at a glance) you may want to consider cutting one or two of the higher cost items.
The item under thopters that sticks out the most is the Steel Overseer. Are you commonly having to attack with these thopters?
Ivory Tower feels like it is win more. Are you having trouble with your health in games?
I am still building my list as well. I am further hindered by wanting some of the new cards in foil. I also want the new Karn, Scion of Urza. Just so much goodness coming out here in the new set.
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I am R and U. I am both emotional and rational, valuing logic but following my gut when appropriate. At my best, I am intuitive and creative. At my worst, I am scattered and unpredictable.
We should also include Jhoira's Familiar. If you are leaning heavy on the Sagas, Legendary creatures, and artifacts, this should be heavily considered as well.
We should, although the fact it costs 4 makes me less enthousiastic about it, especially as that's the cmc Jhoira comes in.
Top is good in any deck, is there a specific (and probably obvious) interaction I'm missing here?
With enough artifact hits through tops filter ability and artifact cost reduction, you can draw a great deal of your deck. Just helps keep things super consistent.
Also, I must find space for Artificer's Assistant. This thing is absolutely nuts with Jhoira, conveniently scrying away possible non-historic draws. Also, I completely forgot to include Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots which I think I will need to protect Jhoira. Any ideas on possible cuts?
I do not see a way to generate infinite Mana, let alone colored mana if you do not have the Mycosynth Lattice out. Bearing this in mind, I would contemplate cutting Memnarch.
The Thopters section has some heavy hitters on the CMC curve. With no great way to consistently hit that (at a glance) you may want to consider cutting one or two of the higher cost items.
The item under thopters that sticks out the most is the Steel Overseer. Are you commonly having to attack with these thopters?
Ivory Tower feels like it is win more. Are you having trouble with your health in games?
1: Mycosynth Golem + Krak-Klan Ironworks allows you to loop Myr Retriever/Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant generating infinite C. From there just add a little blue or red for Blue Sun's Zenith or Jaya's Immolating Inferno. Possible thing for the future if the deck underperforms is to increase the cost reduces and add Altar of Dementia but that would be another infinite wincon so...
2: True, but there are not a lot of cards that make Thopters and can easily be recurred. So as long as Thopters is a theme, I'm afraid I have to keep them. Here's to hoping more Thopter cards come out in the near future!
3: Thopter beats is a possible route to victory, and this helps turn the thopters into serious threats seriously fast.
4: I always like to have some lifegain in my decks as people tend to leave you alone a bit once you get below ten as yhey can usually take you out very fast at that point. It's basically a redunancy piece for Venser's Journal along Library of Leng, but both are Trinket tutorable. Having said that, this is one of the easier cuts to make I guess.
EDIT: perhaps I should cut the library and the tower. Most of the draw I think will keep my hand filled but not neccesarily above 7. The assistant and a pair of greaves can take their place. Also, I might have to add High Market to have an extra sac outlet, mostly to dodge exle removal and be able to convert a big Hangarback Walker to thopters when I need it.
I can see playing to your meta. I generally prefer my cmc curve to be lower. It is a part of the struggle I have at present with my decklist. I am pushing for more card draw, lower cmc that I can get to 0 quickly. I like being able to draw and find the answers more consistently. To each their own on playstyle.
These forums are great for brainstorming. Making the cuts is always tough. With all of that mana, have you considered Words of Wind? Might help keep the board clear for a thopter attack or to help keep your opponents locked out a bit more?
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Blue Sun's Zenith is probably not necessary esp. if not running inspiring statuary.
Blue Sun's Zenith is part of my winning through big mana path to victory along with Memnarch and Jaya's Immolating Inferno. If i have only two cards to use all that mana I might as well cut that path all together but I absolutely want to play my Storm the Vault in this deck.
Any thoughts on Spell Swindle? It's on theme and you don't have much interaction. Surprised you're not running any counter-magic at all.
True, and it's probably the current list's greatest pitfall. However, I'm just not sure what to cut at this point so I think I just need to get some games under my belt with this deck to find out what works and what doesn't. I'm all ear for suggestions though!
If you're going for infinite Mana, Comet Storm feels better than Jaya's. More flexible as an instant, and not a dead card if you don't have a legend out.
Funny thing is, I saw Jaya's and immediately thought "wow this can take out 3 opponents at once". Not realizing Comet Storm is a card... I agree it's better. Jaya's will draw me a card, but instant speed is more important, as is the flexibility to play it without Jhoira out.
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Walking Ballista would probably be the best card in this deck for an infinite mana dump.
-Easier to tutor for.
-Can be cast for two mana if you cant go off immediately. Cast for free to trigger Jhoira if you end up going another route to win.
-Still triggers Jhoira's ability while killing everyone in the process.
-Another thing you can sac to Arcum if you decide to go another route to win.
-Easier to retrieve if it is in the graveyard.
Walking Ballista would probably be the best card in this deck for an infinite mana dump.
-Easier to tutor for.
-Can be cast for two mana if you cant go off immediately. Cast for free to trigger Jhoira if you end up going another route to win.
-Still triggers Jhoira's ability while killing everyone in the process.
-Another thing you can sac to Arcum if you decide to go another route to win.
-Easier to retrieve if it is in the graveyard.
Right now I would prefer the big mana wincon to be non-creature based to diversify my threats, but you're absolutely right it would be good in this deck. I will see if I can make room for it in the future, once it's price is not so standard-inflated anymore.
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These forums are great for brainstorming. Making the cuts is always tough. With all of that mana, have you considered Words of Wind? Might help keep the board clear for a thopter attack or to help keep your opponents locked out a bit more?
Words of Wind seems insane in Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain. Maybe not in the build from OP but in general you have available multiple artifact cost reducers and multiple mana rocks that are net positive mana (or mana neutral like Basalt Momolith). You can loop casting two artifacts each time paying 1 and bouncing a permanent for each opponent with each loop. Even if each loop costs you mana it's still incredibly good as this deck should be able to easily generate large amounts of mana which will put opponents back to stone age and you will be able to repeat this next turn. With things like Paradox Engine this card will in most situations give you infinite mana and possibly draw your entire deck. The fact that we can't tutor for it is a bit inconvenient but you will be drawing a lot of cards so it should not be that much of a problem. It also allows to turn draw triggers from casting an artifact into retriggers of your ETB effects. Even forgoing draw from draw step to replay one of the cards with ETB effect seems fine.
Speaking of card drawing - why there is no Skullclamp in the list? There will be plenty of 1/1s to clamp and it's tutorable with Trinket Mage.
After checking the list a litte bit more, I found Mycosynth Golem does not reduce all that much in this list. Mizzium Transreqiquat also had to go, as I realized I ran 0 protection for Jhoira in the deck so there two leave for Lightning Greaves and a Darksteel Plate to help keep Jhoira on the board. The Library of Leng and Ivory Tower are probably too subpar, by replacing them with Aetherflux Reservoir and Haven of the Spirit Dragon i keep ways to gain life AND add the possibility to weaponize it. Forgemaster requires 3 artifacts to sacrifice which I probably will not have unless I get my thopter engine going so it's too situational. Worn Powerstone goes too in order to make room for some artifact cost reduction in the form of Cloudkey and Foundry Inspector. I think that cost reduction will net me more mana then a single source of 2 when chaining plays and draws. Metalworker leaves for Mana Vault. Metalworker is slower and conditional to use, Mana Vault will just more reliably give that little bit of extra gas to get going 1 or 2 turns earlier. Myr Battlesphere is just outright good and produces tokens so fits really well. I added a land with the Haven so I can cut Seat of the synod for it. Great Furnace leaves for Command Tower. I figured that for both of these lands, the fact that they are artifacts doesn't really make a difference here so I might as well not open them up to creature removal.
After consideration, I decided to not run Words of Wind, good as it may be. It goes infinite to easily with Mana Vault, Mana Crypt and Sol Ring for infinite bounces that it would make the deck just outright oppresive. I follow the credo "build casual, play competitively" so I don't want to hold any punches when I actually have them. So best way to ensure good times is to just not run it.
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Speaking of card drawing - why there is no Skullclamp in the list? There will be plenty of 1/1s to clamp and it's tutorable with Trinket Mage.
So true. Will have to add that in. Any thoughts what could go for it?
It pains me to say it but... Weatherlight? The problem is that it has to connect to do anything and it requires resources to do so.
The other candidates would be:
- Platinum Emperion - it doesn't work with multiple lifegain cards which are on the list
- Platinum Angel - it's veeery unreliable as protection and beside that ability it's overcosted flyer
- Mycosynth Wellspring and Ichor Wellspring generate value but are quite durdly
- Codex Shredder is redundant to other recursion pieces and in my opinion not worth it without Salvaging Station
Speaking of card drawing - why there is no Skullclamp in the list? There will be plenty of 1/1s to clamp and it's tutorable with Trinket Mage.
So true. Will have to add that in. Any thoughts what could go for it?
It pains me to say it but... Weatherlight? The problem is that it has to connect to do anything and it requires resources to do so.
The other candidates would be:
- Platinum Emperion - it doesn't work with multiple lifegain cards which are on the list
- Platinum Angel - it's veeery unreliable as protection and beside that ability it's overcosted flyer
- Mycosynth Wellspring and Ichor Wellspring generate value but are quite durdly
- Codex Shredder is redundant to other recursion pieces and in my opinion not worth it without Salvaging Station
I really want to play with Weatherlight, if only for nostalgia purposes. Also, it seeks in the top 5 so it can dig for answers more effectively. Playing with it will proof how strong it is but I want to try it out before I make a decision to cut it or not. The Wellsprings are part of the long term value package, Codex Shredder is my only way to recur instants and sorceries. You're right about the Emperion and Angel, I will probably cut those. Good for the cmc too.
You're right about needing to add Lightning Greaves and Reliquary Tower. I think protecting Jhoira is essential, as any player worth their salt will kill Jhoira at the first possible opportunity.
Can you explain a bit if you have specific packages in there? The deck as is seems perfectly able to just vomit a lot of creatures on the table, but are there any specific interactions you're aiming for? That makes it a lot easier to provide insights.
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This is build from converting my Padeem, Consul of Innovation deck to Jhoira. Ever sice Storm the Vault came out, I wanted to run it in a deck. Now that we get Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain in Dominaria, I'm putting Padeem in the 99 and Jhoira at the helm. The deck used to be about reaching nigh-invulnerability with Padeem + Mycosynth Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Platinum Angel/Platinum Emperion. However, it was struggling to close a game. That's why I have been looking for good ways to win. So the deck's plan is to durdle along building up more and more towards invulnerability until it can close out the game through one of the ways described below the decklist:
1 Mirage Mirror
1 Mizzium Transreliquat
1 Master Transmuter
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Mycosynth Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Memnarch
Thopters (8)
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Steel Overseer
1 Master of Etherium
1 Thopter Spy Network
1 Efficient Construction
1 The Antiquities War
1 Thopter Assembly
1 Sharding Sphinx
Recursion (13)
1 Goblin Welder
1 Codex Shredder
1 Myr Retriever
1 Junk Diver
1 Workshop Assistant
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Scrap Trawler
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Scarecrone
1 Trading Post
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Feldon of the Third Path
1 Padeem. Consul of Innovation
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Platinum Angel
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Darksteel Forge
Draw/Tutor (11)
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Fabricate
1 Trinket Mage
1 Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
1 Arcum Daggson
1 Whir of Invention
1 Vedalken Archmage
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Weatherlight
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Ramp (11)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Thought Vessel
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Metalworker
1 Storm the Vault
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Expedition Map
Removal (5)
1 Vandalblast
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Jaya's Immolating Inferno
1 Duplicant
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Library of Leng
1 Ivory Tower
1 Mechanized Production
1 Venser's Journal
1 Mycosynth Lattice
Lands (35)
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Foundry of the Consuls
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Great Furnace
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Terrain Generator
1 Deserted Temple
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Buried Ruin
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Cascade Blufs
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
9 Mountain
8 Island
Means of winning:
Other noteworthy things:
I'd love to hear opinions and suggestions how to improve this deck further. In particular, I'd like to find room for some removal and/or countermagic but don't know what to cut at this point.
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15-04-2018: -1 Hellkite Tyrant, +1 Feldon of the third Path. Hellkite Tyrant is, as was pointed out to me, as much a wincon as a liability. If someone clones it and connects to me once the game is over for me. I'd rather not run that risk. Feldon of the Third Path strengthens the deck's recursion engine by copying Myr Retriever/Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant, and copying Wurmcoil Engine, which leaves tokens behind, is not bad either.
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Feldon of the Third Path seems like it could be very cute in your deck. Same for Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer.
Cards like Foundry Inspector and Etherium Sculptor should also be considered, as well as Semblance Anvil - exiling an artifact creature with it causes both artifacts and creatures to cost 2 less.
BTW, what is the card Thopters supposed to be?
I have doubts about Semblance Anvil. On one hand, it's effect is very strong. On the other hand, it really invites being destroyed since you invest 2 cards in it, much like Extraplanar Lens. With most of my decks being artifact anyway, I feel maybe Cloud Key is the saver choice. If people want to spend their removal on it that's fine. If not, it's fine as well.
I can see Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer being usefull, sacrificing Thopters instead of something important, but I think Feldon of the Third Path is actually better (Don't know how i missed that) as he can jump start additional recursion shenanigans by reanimating Myr Retriever and friends. Reanimating a Wurmcoil Engine is solid as well.
The card Thopters is actually not a card at all but was a faulty link in Excel
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Ashnod's Altar + Nim Deathmantle + Pia and Kiran Nalaar/Maverick Thopterist/Whirler Rogue/Experimental Aviator
From there, if you are going for Artifact cost reduction, try these out:
- Chief Engineer - Grants Convoke for larger artifacts as needed
- Etherium Sculptor - I see it on your list, but including it here to reinforce keeping it with others
- Cloud Key - Will most commonly choose artifacts, but is nice that it is flexible
- Foundry Inspector - Second Etherium sculptor
- Semblance Anvil - As others have noted, exile artifact creature, so you can help our creatures and artifacts
- The Immortal Sun - Can be a little pricey, but does indeed reduce overall costs of spells
- Helm of Awakening - Be careful with this one, as it is group hug and will effect everyone, not just you
- Herald of Kozilek - A real sleeper, as it does reduce the cost of COLORLESS artifacts. Won't help Etherium Sculptor out, but covers a great deal of what is going on in this deck
I left the Mycosynth Golem off the list, as it specifies Artifact Creatures ONLY get the benefits of Affinity. In my build I am not running Mycosynth Lattice, so it is not as big a deal for me.In closing, Sensei's Divining Top is bonkers with Jhoira, just saying.
Great suggestions, but I'm not looking to go infinite with this deck. I don't really like it all that much personally and in my group, if they know you play infinite combo, it's archenemy from the get go. And this deck will not be holding it's own against that. I know the deck already has a way of going infinite but it requires 4 cards that each all have their place in the deck and it's not something i specifically tutor for so then it's ok. I realize that's completely subjective but it's my reality though
Nice list, I'm going to remember this. I think once you get 2 or more discount on your artifacts Jhoira will have you blazing through the deck. I expect Daretti, Scrap Savant to do some heavy lifting in this deck, so the Immortal Sun seems out of place. However, if I decide to take him out the The Immortal Sun is definitly a good replacement. I love the card actually, it's just that the neutering of planeswalkers somehow always prevents me from running it.
Top is good in any deck, is there a specific (and probably obvious) interaction I'm missing here?
Also, I must find space for Artificer's Assistant. This thing is absolutely nuts with Jhoira, conveniently scrying away possible non-historic draws. Also, I completely forgot to include Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots which I think I will need to protect Jhoira. Any ideas on possible cuts?
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I can understand that. I have one group that is not as salty when I play inf combos. Another that is so aggressive that I have to play the one up, go big or go home style. I get you gotta play to the strengths as well.
I understand this choice as well. Given the aggressive nature of my playgroups in general, Planeswalkers are commonly null to nonexistent in my decks. In truth, I was going for a comprehensive list of reductions, which would include Sun. We should also include Jhoira's Familiar. If you are leaning heavy on the Sagas, Legendary creatures, and artifacts, this should be heavily considered as well.
With enough artifact hits through tops filter ability and artifact cost reduction, you can draw a great deal of your deck. Just helps keep things super consistent.
I am still building my list as well. I am further hindered by wanting some of the new cards in foil. I also want the new Karn, Scion of Urza. Just so much goodness coming out here in the new set.
With enough artifact hits through tops filter ability and artifact cost reduction, you can draw a great deal of your deck. Just helps keep things super consistent.
1: Mycosynth Golem + Krak-Klan Ironworks allows you to loop Myr Retriever/Junk Diver/Workshop Assistant generating infinite C. From there just add a little blue or red for Blue Sun's Zenith or Jaya's Immolating Inferno. Possible thing for the future if the deck underperforms is to increase the cost reduces and add Altar of Dementia but that would be another infinite wincon so...
2: True, but there are not a lot of cards that make Thopters and can easily be recurred. So as long as Thopters is a theme, I'm afraid I have to keep them. Here's to hoping more Thopter cards come out in the near future!
3: Thopter beats is a possible route to victory, and this helps turn the thopters into serious threats seriously fast.
4: I always like to have some lifegain in my decks as people tend to leave you alone a bit once you get below ten as yhey can usually take you out very fast at that point. It's basically a redunancy piece for Venser's Journal along Library of Leng, but both are Trinket tutorable. Having said that, this is one of the easier cuts to make I guess.
EDIT: perhaps I should cut the library and the tower. Most of the draw I think will keep my hand filled but not neccesarily above 7. The assistant and a pair of greaves can take their place. Also, I might have to add High Market to have an extra sac outlet, mostly to dodge exle removal and be able to convert a big Hangarback Walker to thopters when I need it.
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These forums are great for brainstorming. Making the cuts is always tough. With all of that mana, have you considered Words of Wind? Might help keep the board clear for a thopter attack or to help keep your opponents locked out a bit more?
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UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
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UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
True, and it's probably the current list's greatest pitfall. However, I'm just not sure what to cut at this point so I think I just need to get some games under my belt with this deck to find out what works and what doesn't. I'm all ear for suggestions though!
Funny thing is, I saw Jaya's and immediately thought "wow this can take out 3 opponents at once". Not realizing Comet Storm is a card... I agree it's better. Jaya's will draw me a card, but instant speed is more important, as is the flexibility to play it without Jhoira out.
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-Easier to tutor for.
-Can be cast for two mana if you cant go off immediately. Cast for free to trigger Jhoira if you end up going another route to win.
-Still triggers Jhoira's ability while killing everyone in the process.
-Another thing you can sac to Arcum if you decide to go another route to win.
-Easier to retrieve if it is in the graveyard.
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Speaking of card drawing - why there is no Skullclamp in the list? There will be plenty of 1/1s to clamp and it's tutorable with Trinket Mage.
1 Mycosynth Golem
1 Mizzium Transreliquat
1 Library of Leng
1 Ivory Tower
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Metalworker
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Great Furnace
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Cloud Key
1 Foundry Inspector
1 Mana Vault
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Command Tower
After checking the list a litte bit more, I found Mycosynth Golem does not reduce all that much in this list. Mizzium Transreqiquat also had to go, as I realized I ran 0 protection for Jhoira in the deck so there two leave for Lightning Greaves and a Darksteel Plate to help keep Jhoira on the board. The Library of Leng and Ivory Tower are probably too subpar, by replacing them with Aetherflux Reservoir and Haven of the Spirit Dragon i keep ways to gain life AND add the possibility to weaponize it. Forgemaster requires 3 artifacts to sacrifice which I probably will not have unless I get my thopter engine going so it's too situational. Worn Powerstone goes too in order to make room for some artifact cost reduction in the form of Cloudkey and Foundry Inspector. I think that cost reduction will net me more mana then a single source of 2 when chaining plays and draws. Metalworker leaves for Mana Vault. Metalworker is slower and conditional to use, Mana Vault will just more reliably give that little bit of extra gas to get going 1 or 2 turns earlier. Myr Battlesphere is just outright good and produces tokens so fits really well. I added a land with the Haven so I can cut Seat of the synod for it. Great Furnace leaves for Command Tower. I figured that for both of these lands, the fact that they are artifacts doesn't really make a difference here so I might as well not open them up to creature removal.
After consideration, I decided to not run Words of Wind, good as it may be. It goes infinite to easily with Mana Vault, Mana Crypt and Sol Ring for infinite bounces that it would make the deck just outright oppresive. I follow the credo "build casual, play competitively" so I don't want to hold any punches when I actually have them. So best way to ensure good times is to just not run it.
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The other candidates would be:
- Platinum Emperion - it doesn't work with multiple lifegain cards which are on the list
- Platinum Angel - it's veeery unreliable as protection and beside that ability it's overcosted flyer
- Mycosynth Wellspring and Ichor Wellspring generate value but are quite durdly
- Codex Shredder is redundant to other recursion pieces and in my opinion not worth it without Salvaging Station
If you fit Skullclamp in then The Locust God might be worth running. Just between Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain, Thopter Spy Network and Sharding Sphinx there is enough draw to generate a lot of 1/1s and with clamp this will be a win condition (decking might be a problem though).
Depending on the number of mana rocks similar to Mana Vault I would consider things like Voltaic Construct/Voltaic Servant.
You have cut Seat of the Synod and Great Furnace but those are tutorable via Trinket Mage (and other cards in the list), produce 2R/2U with Krark-Clan Ironworks and can be recurred with Scrap Mastery, Crucible of Worlds etc. They will attack with Tezzeret the Seeker ultimate as well and can be used as Goblin Welder fodder. They are hit by splash damage from artifact hate but it might be worth it to keep them.
I wouldn't call Mana Crypt, Mana Vault etc casual cards but I get the point about Words of Wind.
By the way I have cooked this list. Going to try it this friday. Probably I should squeeze in Lightning Greaves and Reliquary Tower. Any thoughts?
1 Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
Lands (36):
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arch of Orazca
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Great Furnace
1 Homeward Path
1 Inventors' Fair
5 Island
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Lonely Sandbar
3 Mountain
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Remote Isle
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Shivan Reef
1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tolaria West
1 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1 Arcbound Reclaimer
1 Arcum Dagsson
1 Cogwork Assembler
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Duplicant
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Feldon of the Third Path
1 Foundry Inspector
1 Goblin Welder
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Master of Etherium
1 Master Transmuter
1 Memnarch
1 Metalwork Colossus
1 Metalworker
1 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Myr Retriever
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Pentavus
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Scarecrone
1 Scrap Trawler
1 Sharding Sphinx
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Steel Overseer
1 The Locust God
1 Thopter Assembly
1 Trinket Mage
1 Trophy Mage
1 Vedalken Aethermage
1 Workshop Assistant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Efficient Construction
1 Future Sight
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Paradox Engine
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Staff of Domination
1 Storm the Vault
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Voltaic Key
1 Whir of Invention
1 Words of Wind
I really want to play with Weatherlight, if only for nostalgia purposes. Also, it seeks in the top 5 so it can dig for answers more effectively. Playing with it will proof how strong it is but I want to try it out before I make a decision to cut it or not. The Wellsprings are part of the long term value package, Codex Shredder is my only way to recur instants and sorceries. You're right about the Emperion and Angel, I will probably cut those. Good for the cmc too.
I will be adding clamp. I don't think the Locust God. It's a good card, but it's not an artifact.
Good points, I will add them back in.
You're right about needing to add Lightning Greaves and Reliquary Tower. I think protecting Jhoira is essential, as any player worth their salt will kill Jhoira at the first possible opportunity.
Can you explain a bit if you have specific packages in there? The deck as is seems perfectly able to just vomit a lot of creatures on the table, but are there any specific interactions you're aiming for? That makes it a lot easier to provide insights.
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