Very good reasoning. Nice choice. Mirage Mirror is nuts.
I don't know if you are still open to suggestions, but another creature I have been satisfied with is Brawn, which is very inexpensive (whether that's because it was recently reprinted in Eternal Masters or it's just an unpopular card, who knows). I found a foil playset of them on eBay for about $3.00. It's only a 3/3 for 4 which was an initial turn-off, but its trample anthem effect when it's in the graveyard is very nice. I treat the creature more or less like Sakura-Tribe Elder... meaning, I will gladly use it to chump block at every available opportunity, and attack when it's convenient, but this is a card that wants to be in the graveyard, so I'm not at all concerned about it dying. I want it to die, but I do not mind letting it stay on the field as long as it's serving a purpose. At the very least, I'm hoping I can make it trade for one of their creatures. It's also a good candidate for simply discarding for a zero-mana trample anthem... at least until graveyard hate rolls around, at which point I might have a way to recur it and put it right back in there as soon as possible.
Thanks for the suggestion and I'm always open to new suggestions and ideas. A creature that provides an anthem from the GY is actually pretty ironic since I just updated the deck with some GY hate! I removed a Forest to add Scavenger Grounds. There really is a lack of grave hate around my meta, so all the tard lovin' commanders have been able to abuse with impunity up to this point: Meren of Clan Nel Toth, multiple The Scarab God decks, a Scion of the Ur-Dragon reanimator deck, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Grimgrin Corpse-Born zombie tribal combo, Breya, Etherium Shaper artifact recursion combo, and more. Yup, all of that and more in my same meta and no one really runs the GY hate. First, it was waves of Meren decks, then waves of Scarab God, and now that Muldrotha, the Gravetide has been spoiled, I'm anticipating another "Wave" of yard abusers and I'm tired of it. I'm thinking of how to squeeze a Relic of Progenitus in here too because I know I'm going to see a fair share of Muldrotha over the coming months.
Now that I have a plethora of utility in lands with Scavenger Grounds, land removal in Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge, and real ramp in Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, I'm half thinking to run something like Hour of Promise to increase the chance that I can have them available.
Anyway, back to Brawn. Despite my GY hate tirade, Brawn is a great suggestion. I'm bummed too that it's 3 power so doesn't innately enable Rhonas, but Trample is a huge theme here, so I'm diggin' it. I don't know what I could cut for it though. Maybe Cudgel Troll? I'm not sure.
Those are very good observations, and certainly something to build around if it is too much of a problem in your local meta. I don't have anyone in mine that I would consider abusive with the graveyard, but it is a frequent theme I've noticed. And yes, Muldrotha, The Gravetide is definitely only going to make that situation 'worse'. Anyone who doesn't believe that is fooling themselves. Those abilities on a single creature are absolutely bonkers. I'm a bit envious actually. Your local meta seems a bit more varied and diverse than mine.
As far as suggestions for what to cut, Cudgel Troll seems like a good candidate. I had considered using that one briefly, but I decided that a 4/3 for 4 mana with only regen was a tad lackluster. If I remember correctly, the reasons were fairly in line with your reasoning for ultimately ditching Thrun, The Last Troll. I eventually decided on Prowling Serpopard, a 4/3 for 3 mana instead of 4, with the much better (in my opinion) ability of making itself and other creatures you cast immune to being countered. How useful that is to you depends on how prevalent counter spells are in your meta, of course. But, even if counter spells aren't really a problem, it's still a 4/3 for 3. It's one of the cheapest 4-power creatures I know of, and flavor-wise seemed rather appropriate for Rhonas.
A few posts back you mentioned that you had cut Baru, Fist of Krosa from the deck for Mirage Mirror. however, if you take these two cards and add Paleoloth (Which I think you should run anyway as it's great value) you have a cool infinite combo for closing out otherwise uncloseable games:
Ertai Planeswalker, Wow, bravo and sweet combo suggestion. That is some grade-A jank. I don't usually like infinite combos, and this is meant as a casual list, but this one seems fair: takes three cards, about 15 mana (at once or through a few turns), and doesn't win on the spot (unless they get haste somehow), so gives a chance to board wipe or bust for opponents.
I don't think I'd ever even heard of Paleoloth - I think his 6CMC had him fly under the radar from my searches since I was originally looking for the cheapest 4+ power creatures. I agree he does have some utility, although I'm thinking realistically how much utility. He enables Rhonas, which is nice, albeit at a higher market rate of 6 mana, but he also takes another creature card of 5+ power to ETB to trigger the ability. That seems fairly narrow, and I don't know what to think of that. One one hand, he can snowball by bringing back 5+ power creatures to my hand first - slowly, but better than not having those creatures at all to rebuild with after a board wipe. On the other hand, just over 1/3 of my creatures (so a smaller overall sliver of the deck) are naturally 5+ power to trigger his ability, which doesn't seem to me like it can be all that consistent. As a standalone card, I just feel like it's fairly narrow in getting some use out of it. I either have to already have a steady stream of 5+ power hitting the board to bring other creatures back (5+ power or otherwise), or I gotta drop him right after a board wipe and also have a 5+ power creature in my hand to get the ball rolling. When I look at other things, particularly in the 6CMC range and in either of those scenarios, I'd rather be dropping Thunderfoot Baloth or Kamahl, Fist of Krosa or Pathbreaker Ibex if I'm already consistently throwing 4-5+ power beaters down, or in the event of a wipe getting Soul of the Harvest out to draw for any creature coming in or Silvos, Rogue Elemental to get the pressure right back up.
To the combo: it looks super fun and unexpected, particularly from a mono-G deck, and particularly from a card like Baru, Fist of Krosa. Despite my thoughts on Paleoloth above, I'd still consider adding him and Baru back, however actually pulling this off would be really inconsistent and likely almost never happen considering I would basically have to naturally draw into it. I've no creature tutors in the deck and I would not want to start making cuts to fit the tutors in just because I decided to run this combo.
That's my thoughts, but part of me still wants to consider adding them. Is there more to the case to include them? What would suggested cuts be?
Thanks for the suggestions! This deck is turning funner than I even expected.
I think you can cut Drumhunter for it Paleoloth. They both give you card advantage (and both care about power 5+) but at least Paleoloth has a relevant body. I can't imagine Drumhunter's ability to tap for 1 will make a difference.
With regards to tutoring, I would cut Hunter's Prowess for Green Sun's Zenith. It's basically a joker card in the sense that i can be any creature in your deck for just 1 mana extra. The flexibility is awesome. Given your creature suite, it can be removal, draw, stompy whatever you need (recursion after a board wipe, find Paleoloth ). The problem with Hunter's Prowess is that it's a sorcery so you telegraph what you want to do not too mention getting 2 for 1'd by spot removal.
Something you could do in addition to increase the resilience of the deck is add Ramunap Excavator. Not sure what to cut for it though, mayne Ripjaw Raptor I don't know. But when you have him, you can run Buried Ruin and/or Haunted Fengraf for repeated recursion, and he is also really good with Ghost Quarter. Since you can just kill non-basic after non-basic. Also, Myriad Landscape would allow you to get more and more land straight out of your deck. Main point though, is that it gives you a more surefire way to recur that Mirage Mirror once it is destroyed, especially since GSZ can tutor for Ramunap Excavator . You could replace Temple of the False God with Buried Ruin, personally i'm not a fan of the temple and you don't want to touch your green sources.
Implementing these changes will give you a great deal of additional consistency, both in general and in pulling of the combo, with no real opportunity costs in regards to loss of tempo or cards.
EDIT: One more card to try and find room for is Traverse the Outlands. Since Rhonas is indestructable, the chance of getting 2 for 1'd by removal is very slim so this is basically a 5 mana sorcery for you that will get you 5 additional forests.Yavimaya Hollow would be good too in place of a forest.
Drumhunter has actually been a phenomenal draw engine that can come down early. Gets me a card at the end of every turn that Rhonas is out, and that’s basically every turn. The tap for 1 ability is definitely less relevant though. It’s also a plus that I can use Rhonas’s ability just the once on the Hunter to then Enable Rhonas to attack or block if I needed. I don’t think I’m willing to part with it just yet.
Hunter’s Prowess does indeed signal to the table what I want to do, but the fact that it gives Trample and a pump works out really well for this deck, I think the draw is the secondary bonus, actually. Prowess will almost always target Rhonas, so unless the defender is packing targeted exile removal (won’t be attacking the open mana W player if I don’t have to), then it turns out to be a draw 8 and take 8 commander damage, or throw bodies in front of Rhonas to prevent it, but the defending player is most likely essentially board wiped. Trample with Rhonas is sooooo good. Theoretically, a handful of cards like Tyne auras and such can be 2-for1’s to opponent removal, but targeting an indestructible creature eliminates a lot (admittedly not all) of that chance.
Buried Ruin does look like good utility, and not just for Mirage Mirror, but the other few artifacts that can be removal targets like Caged Sun and Vedalken Orrery. I can agree, now that I think about it, that Temple of the False God doesn’t make as much sense since one of the sub-themes is mana doubling. Definitely figure I can cut it then, and add Buried Ruin.
I’ve mentioned that Traverse the Outlands is on my radar, and I see it mostly as that: worst case it’s a 5 mana to get 5 basics to the field when Rhonas is out, but there’s some good potential in here to get many more basics after pumping with Kamahl, Fist of Korsa, Nylea, God of the Hunt, Pathbreaker Ibex, or Rhonas himself. I took another look and I do have a good amount of draw and reasoned Momentous Fall has been the least impactful, although it similarly scales with creature power like Outlands does. There is that utility to sac one of my own creatures at instant speed if needed, but in all the games thus far it has been irrelevant, so I’ll cut Fall for Outlands.
I’m the same vein of relooking at cards that have had the least impact for me, I eyed Bow of Nylea. Seems powerful to give all my attacking creatures deathtouch and the mana sink utility it has to pump a creature or gain life, etc., seemed good (but not great when you have to tap it), but trample has been wayyyyy more effective in games and the way this deck is running. Deathtouch on Rhonas alone has been effective enough if I want to leave up an indestructible blocker or put the pressure on with attacks couple with trample. So, I’ll cut the Bow for the aforementioned Brawn. Ironically, I’m cutting a built in way to get him to the grave with Momentous Fall, but I’ll see if I can’t get him there otherwise and think about that. For now he’s in and I’m liking the increasing chance for trample.
Alright, back to my thinking with Baru, Fist of Krosa and Paleoloth. Looking at the same “least impactful” side of creatures, I drew out Deadbridge Goliath. He’s an efficient way to enable Rhonas and has some application when he dies, but I never used his ability. I always seemed to have some better things to do for 6 mana. I could double Rhonas’s power to 10, but with all the trample and pumps going on, it didn’t seem as impactful and other plays. I am cutting Beadbridge Goliath for Baru, and that way I don’t lose out on a 4+ power 4-drop. Another underperformer I previously mentioned is Cudgel Troll. Again, super efficient to get him out to enable Rhonas, and regeneration means he could be resilient enough to stick around to fill that role, but it just never became necessary. I tend to have a steady stream of enough power that actually losing him was never a big deal. Paleoloth bops the Troll out! So I have it, then: the amazing jank Ertai Planeswalker pointed out with Mirage Mirror, Baru, Fist of Krosa, and Paleoloth! Each does have some use or utility otherwise, so that’s good too.
I thought about Green Sun’s Zenith, and now that you mention it I can see a lot of utility with it for sure. I usually shy away from tutors myself, although things like this and Worldly Tutor are played against me all the time. With the new additions though and with some other applications it provides, I’m willing to try it. I couldn’t think of more cuts at this point though, so placing it in the maybes and will have to look into what’s worth cutting. Any other suggestions for cuts?
I’ve been trying to get away from tap-lands like Myriad Landscape, especially in mono colored decks. Plus, with the mana doubling cards, I haven’t felt it necessary to put in land tutors like Myriad, Cultivate, etc., save for Traverse the Outlands just now because that has a lot higher potential. Yavimaya Hollow, although an amazing card, seems out of my price range. I hear you on the utility for Ramunap Excavator, but adding it and some of the other lands to abuse it with I feel would be pulling into another sub-theme or “thing” the deck does that I would inevitably have to make cuts and take away from the other themes that have been working quite well. So, I’ll pass on that package for now.
Super sweet suggestions though! These additions are making me want to get out and play a few games with this deck to see some in action!
I can't believe I completely missed the fact Rhonas triggers the Drum Hunter every turn easily. Yeah I can see why you keep it around. You're also right about the "subthemish" thing with Ramunap. I think it would be good but it's not a neccesity. I did not know Yavimaya Hollow is an expensive card.
As for adding Green Sun's Zenith, you could add it instead of Wild Growth and replace a forest with Dryad Arbor. That way, if you have t in your opening hand you can still use it to ramp (GSZ for 0 can go and find the Arbor) and otherwise you have the utility GSZ provides. You'd rather draw GSZ on turn 6 then Wild Growth.
I'm not so sold on Ripjaw Raptor, what would you think of replacing it with Ursapine? With your big mana, people will be forced to block Rhonas because if you have enough mana you can one or two shot them easily. It also makes combat in general very difficult for your opponents and can be used as a political tool. You can even threaten other players with other player's commanders by pumping them on the attack!
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Awesome suggestions, and ones that I am now considering for mine, especially Traverse the Outlands and Pathbreaker Ibex (completely missed that one for some reason). Funny thing though, now that my deck has been constructed pretty much where I want it to be for a while, I've been focusing on getting foil versions of almost every card in the deck... where feasible, that is (I don't expect to ever obtain a foil Gaea's Cradle). When I first heard about those two aforementioned cards, I went to a few sites to try to find foil singles of them only to find out that they have only ever existed in Commander pre-con decks... which means, no foil version exists. Oh well. I'll still get them.
Green Sun's Zenith is indeed an amazing card. It does seem like half the time I'm using it to grab Dryad Arbor on turn 1 just like you suggested, or use it to cheat it out if I've already played a land for the turn (which is nice for anything with 'landfall' triggers). GSZ is great at just about any point in the game, and the fact that it shuffles back into the library after use is a huge bonus. I am never disappointed to see that card in my hand.
Based on your current list turtlerock, I'm curious about when and why Garruk Wildspeaker got cut. He seems slightly better to me than Garruk, Primal Hunter. He only takes one +1 activation to place him in a position to activate his 'Overrun' ultimate ability (which is in line with the trample theme), and the +1 itself is very nice, especially if you're using it to untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or any other land that is producing double or more mana.
Also, have you considered Akroma's Memorial instead of Haunted Cloak? Yes, it is more expensive (both financially and mana-wise), but instead of only one creature gaining vigilance, trample, and haste, for 3 additional mana all of your creatures gain those abilities... plus flying, first strike, and protection from black and red. 7 mana is not difficult to produce rather early with a mono green deck, that's for sure.
Oh, and I was pretty happy with my deck for a while except for one key area: card draw. After studying your list for a while, I decided to add Elemental Bond and Garruk's Packleader. Card draw is definitely no longer a problem, so thank you! It's almost gotten to the point where I should probably consider adding another source of 'You have no maximum hand size' besides Reliquary Tower.
After the Dominaria pre-release event, I started thinking about a very interesting possibility: Helm of the Host
Think of the hilarity that would ensue if this was equipped on Rhonas. By itself, that's just nuts... but combined with Doubling Season or Parallel Lives? Crazy. The very first copy of Rhonas would bring both of them online, and any copies beyond that would just be hilarious.
Unfortunately, dealing commander damage would not extend to the copies.
As for adding Green Sun's Zenith, you could add it instead of Wild Growth and replace a forest with Dryad Arbor. That way, if you have t in your opening hand you can still use it to ramp (GSZ for 0 can go and find the Arbor) and otherwise you have the utility GSZ provides. You'd rather draw GSZ on turn 6 then Wild Growth.
For some reason I'd been forgetting the "Shuffle Green Sun's Zenith into it's owners library" resolution, even though all the Sun's Zeniths do that of course. This makes your points excellent in that, if including Dryad Arbor, it easily replaces Wild Growth in the opening hand, and still has great utility any other time in the game. I don't currently have a Dryad Arbor, and it's a bit pricier, but luckily my playgroup is cool with proxies. Personally, I still like to pick up the card if it's still in the deck after a while just in case I find myself at a table that does not share this view. I should be making this switch. The more I think about it, even without Dryad Arbor, GSZ is just a great card for this deck, and it's a conditional tutor (only creatures).
Quote from Ertai Planeswalker »
I'm not so sold on Ripjaw Raptor, what would you think of replacing it with Ursapine?
I like Ripjaw Raptor because he's a 4/5 body enabling Rhonas early and can provide some draw either as an early pressure attacker or as a later-game pumped trampler. I haven't used him every game, maybe just a few times, but each time the Raptor made it interesting for defenders to block or not. Ursapine looks great, fits the pumping sub-theme, but has some drawbacks to me. Namely, he's a 3-power 5-drop, which is completely the opposite of something like Ripjaw Raptor to efficiently enable Rhonas. Ursapine can pump himself to 4-power, but that takes an extra mana each turn. I'm trying not to cut too many more 4-drops of requisite power for Rhonas because I notice it's important to get him online ASAP not only to build an offense, but lay a good defense and deter some early aggression too. The more I increase the curve in this deck, the more I can feel I've got a Rhonas out that can't attack or block anyway, unless I hold up mana for Rhonas to pump a mana dork or utility creature, but that's harder to do in the early turns. Ursapine looks amazing, and would be a nice win condition if Rhonas gets trample, but I don't want to cut any lower-drop creatures at this point and anything at 5 or 6+ CMC is doing something else I need or want. I could give Ursapine a second look at another time if I feel I can shift the curve around.
Quote from MJY71 »
Based on your current list turtlerock, I'm curious about when and why Garruk Wildspeaker got cut. He seems slightly better to me than Garruk, Primal Hunter. He only takes one +1 activation to place him in a position to activate his 'Overrun' ultimate ability (which is in line with the trample theme), and the +1 itself is very nice, especially if you're using it to untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or any other land that is producing double or more mana.
I don't think I ever published the list with Garruk Wildspeaker on it. I'm sure I looked at all the Garruks. I'm not liking Garruk Wildspeaker for this deck. His +1 is nice for untapping Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, but that's about it outside of Forests if they're doubling mana. Cheapens his cost, essentially, but nothing over the top for me unless Nykthos is out, which isn't guaranteed. His -1 gets a body to protect him, but unless that token has flying (it doesn't) it's not necessarily protecting him any more than another creature possibly could considering the token does not innately get Rhonas online. If it were a 4/4 token or something that could block something I otherwise could not, then I would consider it. The -4 is on theme, but I'd have to wait a turn after casting him to use it, kinda signaling what I'm about to do to opponents, especially if I have enough creatures out and it looks like I can bring the pain on someone. While his -4 is what I like most about him, it's slower than I'd like it to be, even if just one turn. I'd rather pay the one extra mana to cast Overrun or Overwhelming Stampede to have more command on when I want the effect. I have Garruk, Primal Hunter in the deck because 99% of the time, I'm popping him for his -3 to refill my hand plus more.
I hadn't considered Akroma's Memorial as a team-esque Haunted Cloak. I still prefer the Cloak here though. I can only equip the Cloak to one creature (99% of the time Rhonas), but it's much cheaper mana-wise, so I can get it out and on early. Giving Rhonas himself trample and vigilance ASAP makes a huge difference in the games I've played, and the earlier I can do it, the more devastating it seems for opponents. Possibly delaying that by a turn or two can make a bit of difference, I feel, in a multiplayer game. Having an Akroma-backed team sounds great, but if I have enough creatures on the board to make Akroma's Memorial game-ending, then I get the feeling I've got enough going on to likely win the game anyway. The Cloak is just faster, and that's what is part of what is making Rhonas so deadly and powerful on the board. Really good suggestion.
Quote from MJY71 »
Card draw is definitely no longer a problem, so thank you! It's almost gotten to the point where I should probably consider adding another source of 'You have no maximum hand size' besides Reliquary Tower.
I know what you mean! I'm considering fitting in Thought Vessel somehow. I really like drawing cards, which is why I think I naturally gravitate to U. I could lose every game, but if I'm drawing or nearly drawing my whole deck in those games, then I'm happy. I hated my earliest EDH days where I would go weeks and months of games where I only ever scratched through ~20 cards, win or lose. So, I try to pack as much card draw, and more generally CA, as I can in my decks. I think I may have mentioned that I almost decked myself with this deck! Having about about 30 mana to pump Soul of the Harvest via Nylea, God of the Hunt to insanity, then using the last bit to Overwhelming Stampede, then casting Rishkar's Expertise or Soul's Majesty would easily put half of the deck in my hand. There's a lot of that stuff in here, and I enjoy it - more than beating face. Glad it helped you out too!
My mistake about Garruk Wildspeaker. For some reason I thought you had mentioned including him at some point, but after re-reading the comments, I was the only one who mentioned that particular one earlier. I apologize for wasting your time with that one, but thank you nevertheless for sharing your reasons for not including him. They make perfect sense for your deck, as do your reasons for Haunted Cloak.
Also, Green Sun's Zenith is even more conditional than that: only green creatures. I've lost track of how many times I've hastily cast that spell with the intention of grabbing Wurmcoil Engine or World Breaker only to realize that I can't after I've searched my library and found one of them, or even worse, having someone else at the table point out that I can't do that after I've tried to put one on the field. That makes me feel really silly. World Breaker still trips me up more than I'd like to admit because of that darn G in the mana cost.
Updated the list for the Green Sun's Zenith utility pointed out by Ertai Planeswalker, especially since adding in the creature-based combo, and added Dryad Arbor to keep the possibility of having GSZ give utility on T1 for ramp if needed.
I decided to take MJY71 up on the suggestion on Helm of the Host (is there a deck this card doesn't want to go in?!). Even if it sticks around for just a single turn, it gives me a non-Legendary Rhonas copy, complete with deathtouch and indestructible, not to mention that both Rhonas' do indeed enable themselves and can give each other trample. That can be pretty menacing, if not down right deadly for opponents. Too good of a possibility to pass up. For cuts, I closely examined everything and realized that Kodama of the North Tree has shroud! Initially, I liked the idea of this because it made him more resilient for keeping him on the board and keeping Rhonas "online", but in retrospect with my other cards and abilities, it's actually a hindrance here, I believe. Rhonas can't target him with pump, Nylea, God of the Hunt can't target it, I can't equip Haunted Cloak if I really needed to, nor could I target it with things like Berserk, Hunter's Prowess, Revenge of the Hunted, Soul's Majesty, etc. Granted, Rhonas is the prime target for a lot of that stuff, but still if I needed to target the North Tree in a pinch, I'd be SOL. So, I cut him for the Helm, and I feel better already. I can't wait to have two nightmares named Rhonas smashing faces and taking names.
So, with some other recent considerations, I was thinking about trying to add Primal Command. I mentioned needing to slide in more graveyard hate for my meta, and this provides that as well as the utility of lifegain if no GY shenanigans are afoot or it can tutor for both Baru, Fist of Krosa and Paleoloth (or any other two creatures) on one casting, if in a position to pull that off. Seems good to me. I couldn't think of anything to cut for it though. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with Primal Command? I know lots of people were disappointed when they pulled one as a rare in MM17 packs, but it seems like a good card!
This deck has become a lot of fun to play! Helm of the Host is legit! That thing is scary awesome for all kinds of reasons, obvious of which is getting even just one non-legendary copy of Rhonas, let along a couple if it is left unanswered for a couple turns. This deck is still surprising me in all the things it can do. While I haven't gotten the Mirage Mirror / Baru, Fist of Krosa / Paleoloth combo off yet, my play group in constantly making verbal observations that the deck is consistently playing more spells from the graveyard (recurring them anyway) than the black decks at the table and drawing more cards than the blue decks at the table, and all manner of other things in between. I've gotten to cast Traverse the Outlands a couple times for 10+ now, so that always feels good.
Anyway, Battlebond releases in a few days, but I'd thought I'd update this list with updates of particular cards from there now since I have them on pre-order anyway. I'm talking about Bramble Sovereign and Grothama, All-Devouring.
Bramble Sovereign is a 4CMC 4-power creature, which is our admitted sweet spot for Rhonas, but this card really tickles the blue in me by being able to pay 1G to make a copy of any non-token creature entering the field! And not just for myself, but for any player, possibly playing up some politics and favorable ETB effects not normally afforded to me? Sign me up! I'd love to create of copy of pretty much any creature in this deck, ETB ability or not - from an extra card a turn from Drumhunter or extra mana from Karametra's Acolyte to all the extra ETB values from Acidic Slime, Eternal Witness, Greenwarden of Murasa, and Woodfall Primus, not to mention the ability to have multiple Pathbreaker Ibex (!) nor the synergy of creating copies of all of this over and over by bouncing the non-token with Temur Sabertooth and casting it again. I'm excited for this card for sure. I decided to cut Rampaging Baloths to fit Sovereign. Rampaging Baloths seemed like the thing to include in a mono-G deck, but without any real land fetching aside from a Traverse the Outlands he was never really doing much, and generally just not getting "there" by being a wipe victim, targeted for removal, or held down by an opponent's Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, maybe making a beast or two, but nothing exciting. Rampaging Baloths is a really good card, but just not for this deck.
I'm also excited about Grothama, All-Devouring. This deck is already drawing a ton of cards - not a game goes by where I'm not digging through half or more of the deck (Yes, I'll cast Rishkar's Expertise to draw 13 cards casting Garruk, Primal Hunter to draw 13 more, then cast Eternal Witness to get the Expertise back . . .) and Grothama will just add to that arsenal. Casting this with just Rhonas and a 4-power enabler on the board, in worst case, I see drawing 9 cards, but realistically I'll have one, two, or even three more decently powered creatures willing to attack and fight to have me draw cards, turning this into a draw 15+ not even counting any buffs from Rhonas, Nylea, Kamahl, Thunderfoot Baloth, Overrun, Pathbreaker, Revenge of the Hunted, etc. Grothama, you will be devouring . . . all the punches to the face that your own team is throwing your way, and you'll like it. Finally decided to cut Ripjaw Raptor since it came out to be my weakest draw piece. I have a good feeling Grothama is going to draw more cards in a single game than Ripjaw has during his whole time in the deck.
Very nice and interesting additions. I've been considering Bramble Sovereign as well.
One that I am definitely looking forward to since it was just spoiled (and perhaps even swapping places with Rhonas as the commander) is Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma. This looks perfect for my deck.
Yes, yes, yes, Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma is an amazing card for this deck. Such a powerhouse - enables Rhonas on curve, cheapens the casting cost of other big creatures by 2!!, and pumps and grants the entire team of beaters (including our beloved Rhonas) trample on attack. Amazing card. This is one of those creatures that I would've likely built around if I didn't already have a good thing going with Rhonas. I cut Vorapede for now as the least utility I could see from the list and recall from games. Undying is good to ensure Rhonas stays enabled even after a wipe, but that hasn't been a real issue thus far.
I am considering Colossal Majesty since Rhonas triggers it and it's card draw - and I love nothing else over drawing more cards in a game of EDH - but this particular card has some issues. It's not a creature, so I can't pump it if I had to for enabling Rhonas (like I could with Drumhunter), but not being a creature also means it's harder to remove like Elemental Bond. The trigger is on upkeep unfortunately, so it has to live around to get a replacement card, again unlike Drumhunter, which just needs to live to the next end step. It's hard for me to pass up on card draw though, so I'm still thinking about it. Anyone thinking this card is better than I'm viewing it as? Does something on the list look cuttable for it?
Hey there, just wondering how you are liking the deck still and what the current deck list is. I have been playing a version mostly focused on:
Turn 1 - dork
Turn 2 - Rhonas
Turn 3 - 3 or 4 cost dude that turns on Rhonas
Then a handful of instant speed fight mechanics and a handful of things that let rhonas ping for dmg ie. Thornbite staff.
I had gone this route because i play alot of green and didnt want it to turn into general green good-stuff.dec
I'm considering an overhaul of the deck just to try a different direction. I was toying with the infect route backed by Rhonas as a pinger to clear a path. Then I dropped in on your thread and thought I'd see where you are with a more balanced green strategy.
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I don't know if you are still open to suggestions, but another creature I have been satisfied with is Brawn, which is very inexpensive (whether that's because it was recently reprinted in Eternal Masters or it's just an unpopular card, who knows). I found a foil playset of them on eBay for about $3.00. It's only a 3/3 for 4 which was an initial turn-off, but its trample anthem effect when it's in the graveyard is very nice. I treat the creature more or less like Sakura-Tribe Elder... meaning, I will gladly use it to chump block at every available opportunity, and attack when it's convenient, but this is a card that wants to be in the graveyard, so I'm not at all concerned about it dying. I want it to die, but I do not mind letting it stay on the field as long as it's serving a purpose. At the very least, I'm hoping I can make it trade for one of their creatures. It's also a good candidate for simply discarding for a zero-mana trample anthem... at least until graveyard hate rolls around, at which point I might have a way to recur it and put it right back in there as soon as possible.
Thanks for the suggestion and I'm always open to new suggestions and ideas. A creature that provides an anthem from the GY is actually pretty ironic since I just updated the deck with some GY hate! I removed a Forest to add Scavenger Grounds. There really is a lack of grave hate around my meta, so all the tard lovin' commanders have been able to abuse with impunity up to this point: Meren of Clan Nel Toth, multiple The Scarab God decks, a Scion of the Ur-Dragon reanimator deck, Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Grimgrin Corpse-Born zombie tribal combo, Breya, Etherium Shaper artifact recursion combo, and more. Yup, all of that and more in my same meta and no one really runs the GY hate. First, it was waves of Meren decks, then waves of Scarab God, and now that Muldrotha, the Gravetide has been spoiled, I'm anticipating another "Wave" of yard abusers and I'm tired of it. I'm thinking of how to squeeze a Relic of Progenitus in here too because I know I'm going to see a fair share of Muldrotha over the coming months.
Now that I have a plethora of utility in lands with Scavenger Grounds, land removal in Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge, and real ramp in Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, I'm half thinking to run something like Hour of Promise to increase the chance that I can have them available.
Anyway, back to Brawn. Despite my GY hate tirade, Brawn is a great suggestion. I'm bummed too that it's 3 power so doesn't innately enable Rhonas, but Trample is a huge theme here, so I'm diggin' it. I don't know what I could cut for it though. Maybe Cudgel Troll? I'm not sure.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
As far as suggestions for what to cut, Cudgel Troll seems like a good candidate. I had considered using that one briefly, but I decided that a 4/3 for 4 mana with only regen was a tad lackluster. If I remember correctly, the reasons were fairly in line with your reasoning for ultimately ditching Thrun, The Last Troll. I eventually decided on Prowling Serpopard, a 4/3 for 3 mana instead of 4, with the much better (in my opinion) ability of making itself and other creatures you cast immune to being countered. How useful that is to you depends on how prevalent counter spells are in your meta, of course. But, even if counter spells aren't really a problem, it's still a 4/3 for 3. It's one of the cheapest 4-power creatures I know of, and flavor-wise seemed rather appropriate for Rhonas.
1: Baru, Fist of Krosa, Mirage Mirror, Paleoloth and at least 5 lands in play
2: Mirage Mirror copies Baru, Fist of Krosa, sacrifice Baru, Fist of Krosa due to legend rule.
3: Play any creature with power 5 or more to get Paleoloth to trigger. Return Baru, Fist of Krosa back into your hand.
4: Discard Baru, Fist of Krosa to Mirage Mirror's grandeur ability to get a 5+/5+ Wurm token.
5: Paleoloth triggers on the Wurm token entering the battlefield, return Baru, Fist of Krosa from your graveyard to your hand.
6: Go back to step 4.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I don't think I'd ever even heard of Paleoloth - I think his 6CMC had him fly under the radar from my searches since I was originally looking for the cheapest 4+ power creatures. I agree he does have some utility, although I'm thinking realistically how much utility. He enables Rhonas, which is nice, albeit at a higher market rate of 6 mana, but he also takes another creature card of 5+ power to ETB to trigger the ability. That seems fairly narrow, and I don't know what to think of that. One one hand, he can snowball by bringing back 5+ power creatures to my hand first - slowly, but better than not having those creatures at all to rebuild with after a board wipe. On the other hand, just over 1/3 of my creatures (so a smaller overall sliver of the deck) are naturally 5+ power to trigger his ability, which doesn't seem to me like it can be all that consistent. As a standalone card, I just feel like it's fairly narrow in getting some use out of it. I either have to already have a steady stream of 5+ power hitting the board to bring other creatures back (5+ power or otherwise), or I gotta drop him right after a board wipe and also have a 5+ power creature in my hand to get the ball rolling. When I look at other things, particularly in the 6CMC range and in either of those scenarios, I'd rather be dropping Thunderfoot Baloth or Kamahl, Fist of Krosa or Pathbreaker Ibex if I'm already consistently throwing 4-5+ power beaters down, or in the event of a wipe getting Soul of the Harvest out to draw for any creature coming in or Silvos, Rogue Elemental to get the pressure right back up.
To the combo: it looks super fun and unexpected, particularly from a mono-G deck, and particularly from a card like Baru, Fist of Krosa. Despite my thoughts on Paleoloth above, I'd still consider adding him and Baru back, however actually pulling this off would be really inconsistent and likely almost never happen considering I would basically have to naturally draw into it. I've no creature tutors in the deck and I would not want to start making cuts to fit the tutors in just because I decided to run this combo.
That's my thoughts, but part of me still wants to consider adding them. Is there more to the case to include them? What would suggested cuts be?
Thanks for the suggestions! This deck is turning funner than I even expected.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Based on the current list on page 1:
EDIT: One more card to try and find room for is Traverse the Outlands. Since Rhonas is indestructable, the chance of getting 2 for 1'd by removal is very slim so this is basically a 5 mana sorcery for you that will get you 5 additional forests.Yavimaya Hollow would be good too in place of a forest.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Drumhunter has actually been a phenomenal draw engine that can come down early. Gets me a card at the end of every turn that Rhonas is out, and that’s basically every turn. The tap for 1 ability is definitely less relevant though. It’s also a plus that I can use Rhonas’s ability just the once on the Hunter to then Enable Rhonas to attack or block if I needed. I don’t think I’m willing to part with it just yet.
Hunter’s Prowess does indeed signal to the table what I want to do, but the fact that it gives Trample and a pump works out really well for this deck, I think the draw is the secondary bonus, actually. Prowess will almost always target Rhonas, so unless the defender is packing targeted exile removal (won’t be attacking the open mana W player if I don’t have to), then it turns out to be a draw 8 and take 8 commander damage, or throw bodies in front of Rhonas to prevent it, but the defending player is most likely essentially board wiped. Trample with Rhonas is sooooo good. Theoretically, a handful of cards like Tyne auras and such can be 2-for1’s to opponent removal, but targeting an indestructible creature eliminates a lot (admittedly not all) of that chance.
Buried Ruin does look like good utility, and not just for Mirage Mirror, but the other few artifacts that can be removal targets like Caged Sun and Vedalken Orrery. I can agree, now that I think about it, that Temple of the False God doesn’t make as much sense since one of the sub-themes is mana doubling. Definitely figure I can cut it then, and add Buried Ruin.
I’ve mentioned that Traverse the Outlands is on my radar, and I see it mostly as that: worst case it’s a 5 mana to get 5 basics to the field when Rhonas is out, but there’s some good potential in here to get many more basics after pumping with Kamahl, Fist of Korsa, Nylea, God of the Hunt, Pathbreaker Ibex, or Rhonas himself. I took another look and I do have a good amount of draw and reasoned Momentous Fall has been the least impactful, although it similarly scales with creature power like Outlands does. There is that utility to sac one of my own creatures at instant speed if needed, but in all the games thus far it has been irrelevant, so I’ll cut Fall for Outlands.
I’m the same vein of relooking at cards that have had the least impact for me, I eyed Bow of Nylea. Seems powerful to give all my attacking creatures deathtouch and the mana sink utility it has to pump a creature or gain life, etc., seemed good (but not great when you have to tap it), but trample has been wayyyyy more effective in games and the way this deck is running. Deathtouch on Rhonas alone has been effective enough if I want to leave up an indestructible blocker or put the pressure on with attacks couple with trample. So, I’ll cut the Bow for the aforementioned Brawn. Ironically, I’m cutting a built in way to get him to the grave with Momentous Fall, but I’ll see if I can’t get him there otherwise and think about that. For now he’s in and I’m liking the increasing chance for trample.
Alright, back to my thinking with Baru, Fist of Krosa and Paleoloth. Looking at the same “least impactful” side of creatures, I drew out Deadbridge Goliath. He’s an efficient way to enable Rhonas and has some application when he dies, but I never used his ability. I always seemed to have some better things to do for 6 mana. I could double Rhonas’s power to 10, but with all the trample and pumps going on, it didn’t seem as impactful and other plays. I am cutting Beadbridge Goliath for Baru, and that way I don’t lose out on a 4+ power 4-drop. Another underperformer I previously mentioned is Cudgel Troll. Again, super efficient to get him out to enable Rhonas, and regeneration means he could be resilient enough to stick around to fill that role, but it just never became necessary. I tend to have a steady stream of enough power that actually losing him was never a big deal. Paleoloth bops the Troll out! So I have it, then: the amazing jank Ertai Planeswalker pointed out with Mirage Mirror, Baru, Fist of Krosa, and Paleoloth! Each does have some use or utility otherwise, so that’s good too.
I thought about Green Sun’s Zenith, and now that you mention it I can see a lot of utility with it for sure. I usually shy away from tutors myself, although things like this and Worldly Tutor are played against me all the time. With the new additions though and with some other applications it provides, I’m willing to try it. I couldn’t think of more cuts at this point though, so placing it in the maybes and will have to look into what’s worth cutting. Any other suggestions for cuts?
I’ve been trying to get away from tap-lands like Myriad Landscape, especially in mono colored decks. Plus, with the mana doubling cards, I haven’t felt it necessary to put in land tutors like Myriad, Cultivate, etc., save for Traverse the Outlands just now because that has a lot higher potential. Yavimaya Hollow, although an amazing card, seems out of my price range. I hear you on the utility for Ramunap Excavator, but adding it and some of the other lands to abuse it with I feel would be pulling into another sub-theme or “thing” the deck does that I would inevitably have to make cuts and take away from the other themes that have been working quite well. So, I’ll pass on that package for now.
Super sweet suggestions though! These additions are making me want to get out and play a few games with this deck to see some in action!
Updates
OUT
- Temple of the False God
- Momentous Fall
- Bow of Nylea
- Deadbridge Goliath
- Cudgel Troll
IN
- Buried Ruin
- Traverse the Outlands
- Brawn
- Baru, Fist of Krosa
- Paleoloth
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
As for adding Green Sun's Zenith, you could add it instead of Wild Growth and replace a forest with Dryad Arbor. That way, if you have t in your opening hand you can still use it to ramp (GSZ for 0 can go and find the Arbor) and otherwise you have the utility GSZ provides. You'd rather draw GSZ on turn 6 then Wild Growth.
I'm not so sold on Ripjaw Raptor, what would you think of replacing it with Ursapine? With your big mana, people will be forced to block Rhonas because if you have enough mana you can one or two shot them easily. It also makes combat in general very difficult for your opponents and can be used as a political tool. You can even threaten other players with other player's commanders by pumping them on the attack!
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Green Sun's Zenith is indeed an amazing card. It does seem like half the time I'm using it to grab Dryad Arbor on turn 1 just like you suggested, or use it to cheat it out if I've already played a land for the turn (which is nice for anything with 'landfall' triggers). GSZ is great at just about any point in the game, and the fact that it shuffles back into the library after use is a huge bonus. I am never disappointed to see that card in my hand.
Based on your current list turtlerock, I'm curious about when and why Garruk Wildspeaker got cut. He seems slightly better to me than Garruk, Primal Hunter. He only takes one +1 activation to place him in a position to activate his 'Overrun' ultimate ability (which is in line with the trample theme), and the +1 itself is very nice, especially if you're using it to untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or any other land that is producing double or more mana.
Also, have you considered Akroma's Memorial instead of Haunted Cloak? Yes, it is more expensive (both financially and mana-wise), but instead of only one creature gaining vigilance, trample, and haste, for 3 additional mana all of your creatures gain those abilities... plus flying, first strike, and protection from black and red. 7 mana is not difficult to produce rather early with a mono green deck, that's for sure.
Oh, and I was pretty happy with my deck for a while except for one key area: card draw. After studying your list for a while, I decided to add Elemental Bond and Garruk's Packleader. Card draw is definitely no longer a problem, so thank you! It's almost gotten to the point where I should probably consider adding another source of 'You have no maximum hand size' besides Reliquary Tower.
Think of the hilarity that would ensue if this was equipped on Rhonas. By itself, that's just nuts... but combined with Doubling Season or Parallel Lives? Crazy. The very first copy of Rhonas would bring both of them online, and any copies beyond that would just be hilarious.
Unfortunately, dealing commander damage would not extend to the copies.
For some reason I'd been forgetting the "Shuffle Green Sun's Zenith into it's owners library" resolution, even though all the Sun's Zeniths do that of course. This makes your points excellent in that, if including Dryad Arbor, it easily replaces Wild Growth in the opening hand, and still has great utility any other time in the game. I don't currently have a Dryad Arbor, and it's a bit pricier, but luckily my playgroup is cool with proxies. Personally, I still like to pick up the card if it's still in the deck after a while just in case I find myself at a table that does not share this view. I should be making this switch. The more I think about it, even without Dryad Arbor, GSZ is just a great card for this deck, and it's a conditional tutor (only creatures).
I like Ripjaw Raptor because he's a 4/5 body enabling Rhonas early and can provide some draw either as an early pressure attacker or as a later-game pumped trampler. I haven't used him every game, maybe just a few times, but each time the Raptor made it interesting for defenders to block or not. Ursapine looks great, fits the pumping sub-theme, but has some drawbacks to me. Namely, he's a 3-power 5-drop, which is completely the opposite of something like Ripjaw Raptor to efficiently enable Rhonas. Ursapine can pump himself to 4-power, but that takes an extra mana each turn. I'm trying not to cut too many more 4-drops of requisite power for Rhonas because I notice it's important to get him online ASAP not only to build an offense, but lay a good defense and deter some early aggression too. The more I increase the curve in this deck, the more I can feel I've got a Rhonas out that can't attack or block anyway, unless I hold up mana for Rhonas to pump a mana dork or utility creature, but that's harder to do in the early turns. Ursapine looks amazing, and would be a nice win condition if Rhonas gets trample, but I don't want to cut any lower-drop creatures at this point and anything at 5 or 6+ CMC is doing something else I need or want. I could give Ursapine a second look at another time if I feel I can shift the curve around.
I don't think I ever published the list with Garruk Wildspeaker on it. I'm sure I looked at all the Garruks. I'm not liking Garruk Wildspeaker for this deck. His +1 is nice for untapping Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, but that's about it outside of Forests if they're doubling mana. Cheapens his cost, essentially, but nothing over the top for me unless Nykthos is out, which isn't guaranteed. His -1 gets a body to protect him, but unless that token has flying (it doesn't) it's not necessarily protecting him any more than another creature possibly could considering the token does not innately get Rhonas online. If it were a 4/4 token or something that could block something I otherwise could not, then I would consider it. The -4 is on theme, but I'd have to wait a turn after casting him to use it, kinda signaling what I'm about to do to opponents, especially if I have enough creatures out and it looks like I can bring the pain on someone. While his -4 is what I like most about him, it's slower than I'd like it to be, even if just one turn. I'd rather pay the one extra mana to cast Overrun or Overwhelming Stampede to have more command on when I want the effect. I have Garruk, Primal Hunter in the deck because 99% of the time, I'm popping him for his -3 to refill my hand plus more.
I hadn't considered Akroma's Memorial as a team-esque Haunted Cloak. I still prefer the Cloak here though. I can only equip the Cloak to one creature (99% of the time Rhonas), but it's much cheaper mana-wise, so I can get it out and on early. Giving Rhonas himself trample and vigilance ASAP makes a huge difference in the games I've played, and the earlier I can do it, the more devastating it seems for opponents. Possibly delaying that by a turn or two can make a bit of difference, I feel, in a multiplayer game. Having an Akroma-backed team sounds great, but if I have enough creatures on the board to make Akroma's Memorial game-ending, then I get the feeling I've got enough going on to likely win the game anyway. The Cloak is just faster, and that's what is part of what is making Rhonas so deadly and powerful on the board. Really good suggestion.
I know what you mean! I'm considering fitting in Thought Vessel somehow. I really like drawing cards, which is why I think I naturally gravitate to U. I could lose every game, but if I'm drawing or nearly drawing my whole deck in those games, then I'm happy. I hated my earliest EDH days where I would go weeks and months of games where I only ever scratched through ~20 cards, win or lose. So, I try to pack as much card draw, and more generally CA, as I can in my decks. I think I may have mentioned that I almost decked myself with this deck! Having about about 30 mana to pump Soul of the Harvest via Nylea, God of the Hunt to insanity, then using the last bit to Overwhelming Stampede, then casting Rishkar's Expertise or Soul's Majesty would easily put half of the deck in my hand. There's a lot of that stuff in here, and I enjoy it - more than beating face. Glad it helped you out too!
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Also, Green Sun's Zenith is even more conditional than that: only green creatures. I've lost track of how many times I've hastily cast that spell with the intention of grabbing Wurmcoil Engine or World Breaker only to realize that I can't after I've searched my library and found one of them, or even worse, having someone else at the table point out that I can't do that after I've tried to put one on the field. That makes me feel really silly. World Breaker still trips me up more than I'd like to admit because of that darn G in the mana cost.
OUT
- Forest
- Wild Growth
- Kodama of the North Tree
IN
+ Dryad Arbor
+ Green Sun's Zenith
+ Helm of the Host
Updated the list for the Green Sun's Zenith utility pointed out by Ertai Planeswalker, especially since adding in the creature-based combo, and added Dryad Arbor to keep the possibility of having GSZ give utility on T1 for ramp if needed.
I decided to take MJY71 up on the suggestion on Helm of the Host (is there a deck this card doesn't want to go in?!). Even if it sticks around for just a single turn, it gives me a non-Legendary Rhonas copy, complete with deathtouch and indestructible, not to mention that both Rhonas' do indeed enable themselves and can give each other trample. That can be pretty menacing, if not down right deadly for opponents. Too good of a possibility to pass up. For cuts, I closely examined everything and realized that Kodama of the North Tree has shroud! Initially, I liked the idea of this because it made him more resilient for keeping him on the board and keeping Rhonas "online", but in retrospect with my other cards and abilities, it's actually a hindrance here, I believe. Rhonas can't target him with pump, Nylea, God of the Hunt can't target it, I can't equip Haunted Cloak if I really needed to, nor could I target it with things like Berserk, Hunter's Prowess, Revenge of the Hunted, Soul's Majesty, etc. Granted, Rhonas is the prime target for a lot of that stuff, but still if I needed to target the North Tree in a pinch, I'd be SOL. So, I cut him for the Helm, and I feel better already. I can't wait to have two nightmares named Rhonas smashing faces and taking names.
So, with some other recent considerations, I was thinking about trying to add Primal Command. I mentioned needing to slide in more graveyard hate for my meta, and this provides that as well as the utility of lifegain if no GY shenanigans are afoot or it can tutor for both Baru, Fist of Krosa and Paleoloth (or any other two creatures) on one casting, if in a position to pull that off. Seems good to me. I couldn't think of anything to cut for it though. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with Primal Command? I know lots of people were disappointed when they pulled one as a rare in MM17 packs, but it seems like a good card!
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
IN
+ Bramble Sovereign
+ Grothama, All-Devouring
OUT
- Rampaging Baloths
- Ripjaw Raptor
This deck has become a lot of fun to play! Helm of the Host is legit! That thing is scary awesome for all kinds of reasons, obvious of which is getting even just one non-legendary copy of Rhonas, let along a couple if it is left unanswered for a couple turns. This deck is still surprising me in all the things it can do. While I haven't gotten the Mirage Mirror / Baru, Fist of Krosa / Paleoloth combo off yet, my play group in constantly making verbal observations that the deck is consistently playing more spells from the graveyard (recurring them anyway) than the black decks at the table and drawing more cards than the blue decks at the table, and all manner of other things in between. I've gotten to cast Traverse the Outlands a couple times for 10+ now, so that always feels good.
Anyway, Battlebond releases in a few days, but I'd thought I'd update this list with updates of particular cards from there now since I have them on pre-order anyway. I'm talking about Bramble Sovereign and Grothama, All-Devouring.
Bramble Sovereign is a 4CMC 4-power creature, which is our admitted sweet spot for Rhonas, but this card really tickles the blue in me by being able to pay 1G to make a copy of any non-token creature entering the field! And not just for myself, but for any player, possibly playing up some politics and favorable ETB effects not normally afforded to me? Sign me up! I'd love to create of copy of pretty much any creature in this deck, ETB ability or not - from an extra card a turn from Drumhunter or extra mana from Karametra's Acolyte to all the extra ETB values from Acidic Slime, Eternal Witness, Greenwarden of Murasa, and Woodfall Primus, not to mention the ability to have multiple Pathbreaker Ibex (!) nor the synergy of creating copies of all of this over and over by bouncing the non-token with Temur Sabertooth and casting it again. I'm excited for this card for sure. I decided to cut Rampaging Baloths to fit Sovereign. Rampaging Baloths seemed like the thing to include in a mono-G deck, but without any real land fetching aside from a Traverse the Outlands he was never really doing much, and generally just not getting "there" by being a wipe victim, targeted for removal, or held down by an opponent's Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, maybe making a beast or two, but nothing exciting. Rampaging Baloths is a really good card, but just not for this deck.
I'm also excited about Grothama, All-Devouring. This deck is already drawing a ton of cards - not a game goes by where I'm not digging through half or more of the deck (Yes, I'll cast Rishkar's Expertise to draw 13 cards casting Garruk, Primal Hunter to draw 13 more, then cast Eternal Witness to get the Expertise back . . .) and Grothama will just add to that arsenal. Casting this with just Rhonas and a 4-power enabler on the board, in worst case, I see drawing 9 cards, but realistically I'll have one, two, or even three more decently powered creatures willing to attack and fight to have me draw cards, turning this into a draw 15+ not even counting any buffs from Rhonas, Nylea, Kamahl, Thunderfoot Baloth, Overrun, Pathbreaker, Revenge of the Hunted, etc. Grothama, you will be devouring . . . all the punches to the face that your own team is throwing your way, and you'll like it. Finally decided to cut Ripjaw Raptor since it came out to be my weakest draw piece. I have a good feeling Grothama is going to draw more cards in a single game than Ripjaw has during his whole time in the deck.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
One that I am definitely looking forward to since it was just spoiled (and perhaps even swapping places with Rhonas as the commander) is Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma. This looks perfect for my deck.
IN
+ Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma
OUT
- Vorapede
Yes, yes, yes, Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma is an amazing card for this deck. Such a powerhouse - enables Rhonas on curve, cheapens the casting cost of other big creatures by 2!!, and pumps and grants the entire team of beaters (including our beloved Rhonas) trample on attack. Amazing card. This is one of those creatures that I would've likely built around if I didn't already have a good thing going with Rhonas. I cut Vorapede for now as the least utility I could see from the list and recall from games. Undying is good to ensure Rhonas stays enabled even after a wipe, but that hasn't been a real issue thus far.
I am considering Colossal Majesty since Rhonas triggers it and it's card draw - and I love nothing else over drawing more cards in a game of EDH - but this particular card has some issues. It's not a creature, so I can't pump it if I had to for enabling Rhonas (like I could with Drumhunter), but not being a creature also means it's harder to remove like Elemental Bond. The trigger is on upkeep unfortunately, so it has to live around to get a replacement card, again unlike Drumhunter, which just needs to live to the next end step. It's hard for me to pass up on card draw though, so I'm still thinking about it. Anyone thinking this card is better than I'm viewing it as? Does something on the list look cuttable for it?
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Turn 1 - dork
Turn 2 - Rhonas
Turn 3 - 3 or 4 cost dude that turns on Rhonas
Then a handful of instant speed fight mechanics and a handful of things that let rhonas ping for dmg ie. Thornbite staff.
I had gone this route because i play alot of green and didnt want it to turn into general green good-stuff.dec
I'm considering an overhaul of the deck just to try a different direction. I was toying with the infect route backed by Rhonas as a pinger to clear a path. Then I dropped in on your thread and thought I'd see where you are with a more balanced green strategy.