Quote from geed »Great primer, Grenzo was the first EDH deck I ever made. I had kind of taken it apart over the years but after I saw this primer I've started rebuilding him.
Looks like we got a couple of goodies from Dominaria, Zhalfirin Void gives us an untapped scryland and Whisper, Blood Liturgist is Hell's Caretaker without the timing restriction, though we do have to sac another creature, might be good if we want another thornbite staff combo.
I've found a couple cards I think might be worth consideration while I've been rebuilding my Grenzo deck so I thought I'd post them here.
Buried Ruin - With how crucial our artifacts are for our combos this seems like a nice way to pick up a flipped/destroyed artifact. We're two colors so I figure the colorless mana doesn't hurt too much.
Agent of Erebos - Seems like the best graveyard hate we can add to the deck, a flippable creature and is four mana for our tutors.
Ravenous Chupacabra - I have this in my list over Bone Shredder, one more mana to hardcast but it can kill anything. Also makes it tutorable.
Crypt Rats - Mana hungry but I feel like having a access to a board wipe could be strong. Also deals damage to players.
Yahenni, Undying Partisan - If we need another sac outlet this seems like a good option. Instant speed sac and can survive a board wipe, get huge, and beat down. Also make a good blocker.
Arcbound Reclaimer - Not sure the deck needs more artifact recursion but this seems like a decent choice if it does.
Dualcaster Mage - Not a very good blind flip but in a very spell heavy meta it could do some work. Seems fun once you have a digger loop active.
My original build of Grenzo had way too many non-creatures but there were a couple I would consider running.
Mana Geyser - This card very easily makes 20+ mana when cast and can let us dig super deep into the deck. Out of all the non-creatures I ran in my old build this one seems like the most likely to make it into my new build.
Braid of Fire - Games when you cast this on turn two feel so great. But being a dead flip and a pretty dead draw late game makes me lean toward not putting it in my new build.
Quote from scourge of the kitchen table »First off, congrats on the recent primer status. Your list has helped me greatly in refining my own version of this deck.
I know you've said you like to avoid bad flips, especially anything that can't be otherwise recurred, but boy, Mana Echoes has been an absolute house for me and I highly recommend taking it for a spin. It can often flip 1/4 to 1/2 your deck into play (depending on how lucky you are in hitting token producers). Last Friday I netted 40 mana off this on turn 5.
Also, what advice or other cards might you recommend if you were to take this deck in a less combo focused direction. My LSG has points system that penalizes infinite combos. So for instance I'm testing Throne of the God-Pharaoh in place of Thornbite Staff.
Quote from geed »My original build of this deck was a much less combo focused so I have a couple recommendations. Some of these are pretty meta dependent/ maybe not that great.
Netherborn Phalanx - If people are flooding the board with creatures/tokens in your meta this can just one shot people. Obviously not a great early flip.
Anathemancer - Similar to Phalanx but for non-basic lands.
Guiltfeeder - Can hit for a lot late game and comes with some evasion.
If you want to flip some large creatures Ignition Team and Nighthowler tend to be quite large.
If you're on the go wide plan yourself, Purphoros, God of the Forge and Ogre Battledriver seem good.
Similarly, Archetype of Finality makes your go wide strategy hard to attack into/block and combos well with Goblin Sharpshooter and similar cards.
Another random suggestion Soulbright Flamekin can turn 6 mna into 8 mana and give your creatures trample in the process.
Hopefully one of those random suggestions was helpful.
Quote from Darkaxel1990 »I totally love this deck. I can't wait to try it, and meantime I'm looking at cards to add. What do you think about:
- replacing Hedron Crawler with Manakin. Strictly better, or I'm not considering something?
- adding Boggart Harbinger. A worse Goblin Matron is worth, or is redundant/simply too worse?
- adding Overeager Apprentice and/or Skirge Familiar? As I understood, casting cards from the hand is a problem, and with these we can send them to the grave, gaining mana in the process. And the Familiar is even repetable!
Quote from Gruagach, Jund Berzerker »Hey all, I've been using this primer to refer to while working on my own Grenzo deck so I just want to start by saying thank you to everyone who's been contributing, because it's been a real help!
I thought I would throw in a couple of card suggestions that I've been thinking about:
-Goblin Ringleader - I know we aren't really trying to play cards from our hand, but most of the goblins are small enough to cast pretty cheap and it has the big upside in that it allows us to arrange the rest on the bottom of our library.
-Pentavus - it could just be a 5/5 that pumps out a few 1/1 fliers, but with Ashnod's Altar, a digger piece, and grenzo it can generate infinite mana. Add a Deathbringer Thoctar to the board and that'll turn into straight damage.
Quote from EbonRose »Greetings! I've been thinking about building a Grenzo list for a while, as he's pretty spicy in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death list. It was certainly worth reading the opinions of someone who's already put so much thought into it. My comments/questions are:
You state that you're only running Ravenous Baboons because you don't want to drop the cash on Goblin Settler, a position I totally understand. I assume the desire for the Settler is his Goblin synergy, but if it's the power upgrade you covet, have you considered Avalanche Riders? He's got the same mana cost and etb, but he's kind enough to sac himself in case you're missing an outlet. He's also got haste, but from your description of how you play the deck, I doubt that's relevant. On a personal note, I actually run the Baboons in Alesha specifically because they're not as strong as the Rider. Lots of the players at my LGS are at a medium level, or lower, of play experience and I don't want them to even fear that I'm coming for all their lands. They do accept that there are some lands powerful enough to warrant destruction though, so I find the Baboons a happy middle ground.
Is there a reason you run Myr Retriever over Junk Diver? Since your strategy makes the 1 extra mana cost moot, isn't a flying chump blocker just better?
And my final comment is actually a rules correction for you regarding Corpse Connoisseur. You state that "you can also sac him and Unearth him as many times as you can pay in the turn", but this is incorrect. If you use his Unearth ability, he will indeed exile himself at eot, but the rules for Unearth also include "If it would leave the battlefield, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else." This clause exists specifically to thwart these types of shennanigans. The only way around that text is to either counter the delayed trigger (with something like Stifle), flicker it (with something like Conjurer's Closet), phase it out (with something like Teferi's Veil), or end the turn and clear the stack (with something like Sundial of the Infinite). When I built my Sedris, the Traitor King deck I made sure to master the rules of Unearth, as well as how to break them. It's an easy enough detail to gloss over, especially for just one card in your deck. Any normal graveyard looping engine works the same as for any other creature, you've just got to keep Unearth out of it.
But please don't think the above rules lawyering in any way detracts from my appreciation of the deck you've built. It's a masterpiece, and is a great write up for anyone who's interested in giving the slot machine a pull!
Quote from Darkaxel1990 »When will the updated decklist come out? I'm really curious to find out what changes there will be *-*
And I can't wait to complete the deck
Quote from GameThree »Hey all! A bit late to the discussion with this one, but what are some thoughts on running Mikaeus, the Unhallowed? He makes for some really easy infinite combos with a BUNCH of cards I'm already running (Triskelion, Workhorse, Murderous Redcap, Pentavus). He synergizes really well with the vast majority of the deck, which abuses ETB effects - double Fleshbag Marauder, Siege-Gang Commander, etc. He protects from board wipes, he discourages attacking us...But he's hard to cast and hard to flip off Grenzo.
It feels wrong to NOT run such a strong combo enabler; it's like playing Niv-Mizzet without any Curiosity effects. But is it worth the slot in our deck?
Secondary question, what do people think about Nim Deathmantle? It goes infinite with Workhorse or Ashnod's Altar + half of our deck. It can protect Grenzo (or any important creature) from removal and increase his power. It's a cheap artifact that can be sac'd with Goblin Welder...But it's a hefty mana sink when we already want to spend any spare mana on Grenzo activations.
Same problem. It works REALLY well with a ton of cards we're already running, but is it worth playing?
Quote from Tokata0 »What about Illusionist's Bracers? Granted, they are worse than a hearthstone, (in that they need to be equiped for 2, therefore costing 5 mana total, and beeing less flexible with an unequal amount of mana) but they could grant some more infinite combo value, and, once equipped, are almost as good as the hearthstone.
Also, bracers + hearthstone = 2 mana 4 flips, that has to be worth something
Also, while flipping through my collection: How about Opal Palace - if we use it to colorfix our commander, he enters the battlefield with 1 counter for 3 mana if cast the first time - just like any other card, but makes him bigger on any later casts (just in case someone runs a -1-1 deck)
Also, with all this saccing and that many low power creatures - how about shirei, shizo's caretaker?
For the combo section: Anything with persist / undieing (redcaps) + Ashnods Altar + any of the "2- Put a card from a gy onto the bottom of your library" => unlimited etb of that creature (Sac 2 times for 4 mana, use 2 mana to bottom and 2 mana to dig out)
Also what about your landcount? All the other primers I read had a landcount around 32 max, did you stumble into manascrew too often with that numbers?
Quote from Hoboz »I think Nim Deathmantle might just be better than Soldevi Digger/Reito Lantern. While you can't stage the cost between multiple turns, functionally Nim Deathmantle performs the same combos as Digger, for the same mana, without the need for Grenzo in play. At the least, I think Deathmantle's role is similar to them.
Also, I'm not running these cards myself, but I was wondering what your opinions on Soldevi Adnate and Kozilek's Translator are. I think I might prefer Kozilek's Translator to Treasonous Ogre or Victory Chimes
Quote from URLSweatshirt »Hey! I too have a Grenzo slot machine deck, and it's probably my favorite EDH deck. I've been tweaking it for quite a while. Here's the list
Some things I'm playing that you aren't that I swear by:
But yeah, definitely interested in trying some new stuff as well since i still have some cards in my list i'm disappointed by like Chainer and Olivia. I see the power of Lightning Crafter after reading your writeup, definitely a card I had written off before.
My shortlist right now is:
Whisper, Blood Liturgist
Path of Ancestry
I also would like to give skullclamp another chance. Also gonna figure out if thornbite staff is worth it in my build, since it has an impressive number of combos.
Also pretty excited for Goblin Trashmaster (damn this card is great!) and Meteor Golem out of M19.
Quote from scourge of the kitchen table »Might Ravaging Horde or Ogre Arsonist serve as a further upgrade from Avalanche Riders?
While we miss out on the haste we get a buff in power/toughness and dodge the echo cost.
Quote from BSn1pes »Have you ever tested Goblin Charbelcher in this deck? I don't know if it's consistent enough but being able to stack the bottom of your deck with whatever you reveal seems pretty cool