Quote from Tev »Man, don't make me make a second Zur deck. You're combining my love of Zur and Rebels!
One card I could suggest is Mistveil Plains, it'll let you recycle cards which you can then tutor back up with Zur or your Rebels.
Quote from cyberium_neo »After counting, I think you have 101 cards?
Quote from cyberium_neo »Thx for the primer. This “Zur and his AA group” combo can work with any tribal under the Esper color, creativity be praised!
I will test your deck tonight on Cocktrice tonight. :3
Quote from darrenhabib »I've updated the OP, to have a guide on how to play, hopefully this will help with general game plan of playing this type of deck. Make no mistake with so many options its hard deck to play, sequencing is everything and on top of that the general hate from all players, makes this an advanced deck to play in my opinion.
Quote from Reaper9889 »I am aware that you will likely not include it (for the same reason as Necropotence), but Contamination is obviously in the most powerful version of the deck - rebels + Contamination should win a lot of games easily. Also, Mirror entity is the best rebel tutor target ever, if the Zur/the enchantment is stopped (most rebels are small and requires alot of mana).
Quote from cyberium_neo »
Thankee. I'm sure different people would harbor different type of tools, some more combo oriented and some less so. I tested the deck and learned the hard lesson of getting AA without at least a counterspell in hand.
Quote from RileyMcAwesome »I. Love. This.
I think I would like to go more hate bear with it. Instant fetch out a leonin arbiter seems fun and cruel. Harder, but fetching a Ob Nixilis, Unshackled at instant speed? Yes please.
Quote from darrenhabib »Alright so I've been exclusively play this deck for a couple of weeks now, and racked up about 30 games. The final version I'm nearing to, I've actually taken out the infinite combo of Intruder Alarm + Steward of Solidarity/Bloodline Keeper as I found that simply getting control is safer and winning is just inevitable once you are setup anyway, so slots are better for keeping the deck more versatile.
That said I took out:
Steward of Solidarity
Merieke Ri Berit
And put in:
Bound in Silence
Imprisoned in the Moon
Quote from Ertai Planeswalker »[quote from="darrenhabib »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/785532-zur-and-rebels-lin-sivvis-crew-for-toolbox-control?comment=12"]I've collected nearly all the cards for this deck at this point, though I wanted to focus on a non-infinite controlling build to begin with. Thus I really like where your list is going. I will compare it to my initial list, probably adapt that list, and then post my adaptation (pun definitly intended) later after I actually had the time to do so.
In the mean time, what do you think of:
Godhead of Awe to go with that Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite? It's a one sided board wipe + softlock and unlike Humility does not shut down our own ETB trigger abuse. Not sure the deck needs it, but Massacre Wurm is a brutal combo with this one as well. anyway, EOT fetch one, in your turn fetch the other.Fountain Watch as some redundancy for Greater Auramancy since the deck relies on it's enchantments so much? Even better if you get both outCopy Enchantment. I'm surprised you're not running it. It can be a second Training Grounds for even more discount, Arcane Adaptation or Conspiracy for redundancy (Disenchant in response to tapping out for rebel search will really bite) or Greater Auramancy to make all your enchantments untargetable, period.Muddle the Mixture instead of Swan Song? Not only does Swan Song give opponents a blocker for Zur, Muddle can be transmuted into an Amrou Scout or Defiant Falcon.
Quote from darrenhabib »Look forward to your list
Quote from Ertai Planeswalker »Quote from darrenhabib »Look forward to your list So instead of making my own fully adapted list first and then change it after input from you and hopefully others in this thread, I want to do it the other way around. I will post my initial list here, discuss what I think are the most notable differences between our lists. Overall though, you run more removal and control pieces, I focussed more on exploiting ETB abilities, using sac outlets to sac the creatures in response, thus never letting whatever got exiled get back. Note that this is a list I made when we were still brainstorming in CyberiumNeo's thread, so it also does not include my own more recent suggestions. sorry for the wall of text, but I look forwards to your thoughts.
Zur & Sivvi: Rebel CoreMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Core:1 Zur, the Enchanter1 Arcane Adaptation1 Conspiracy1 Training Grounds1 Copy Enchantment1 Ashnod's Altar1 Martyr's Cause1 Faces of the Past1 Mistmeadow WitchSearch Rebels:1 Search Rebels1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero1 Amrou Scout1 Blightspeaker1 Defiant Falcon1 Ramosian Lieutenant1 Ramosian Captain1 Defiant Vanguard1 Ramosian Commander1 Ramosian RevivalistResilience:1 Pull from Eternity1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator1 Sun Titan1 Monk Idealist1 Greater Auramancy1 Phyrexian Reclamation1 Skull of Orm1 Karmic Justice1 Kaho, Minamo HistorianRemoval1 Merieke Ri Berit1 Fiend Hunter1 Fleshbag Marauder1 Silumgar Sorcerer1 Spell Queller1 Voidmage Prodigy1 Leonin Relic-Warder1 Tidehollow Sculler1 Necrotic SliverOther creatures1 Selfless Spirit1 Mother of Runes1 Kira, Great Glass Spinner1 Aegis Angel1 Mirror Entity1 Trinket Mage1 Trophy Mage1 Aven Mindcensor1 Aven Riftwatcher1 Flickerwisp1 Portal Mage1 Aegis of the Gods1 Azorius GuildmageDraw / Tutor:1 Enlightened Tutor1 Vampiric Tutor1 Demonic Tutor1 Rhystic Study1 Phyrexian Arena1 Land TaxZur Targets:1 Oblivion Ring1 Detention Sphere1 Bound in Silence1 Aura of Silence1 Darksteel Mutation1 Vanishing1 Propaganda1 Steel of the GodheadOther:1 Lightning Greaves1 Elixir of ImmortalityLands:1 Arcane Lighthouse1 Command Tower1 Arcane Sanctum1 Exotic Orchard1 Reflecting Pool1 High Market1 Hallowed Fountain1 Flooded Strand1 Mystic Gate1 Glacial Fortress1 Watery Grave1 Polluted Delta1 Sunken Ruins1 Drowned Catacomb1 Godless Shrine1 Marsh Flats1 Fetid Heath1 Isolated Chapel1 Seat of the Synod1 Vault of Whispers1 Ancient Den
The primary focus of this deck as I said is reusing ETB abilities on Oblivion Ring style creatures, saccing them in response to their own ETB trigger thus making sure that whatever they exiled will never come back. Ashnod's Altar. I feel this gives this deck a lot of it's power though in comparison with your list, I might have gone too all in on it making this too much of a glass cannon. I definitly want to keep this engine in the deck, but the eventual version will need to be able to hold it's own if this is disrupted. If you have Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero[c/], Training Grounds, Arcane Adaptation and Ashnod's Altar then you can reuse any ETB ability on any of your creatures with cmc 3 or less for 2: Sac it to the altar for 2. Spend 1 on Sivvi's last ability to put the creature on the bottom of your library then spend the other 1 to have Sivvi put it back int play. While you initially ran Intruder Alarm, I opted to go with Faces of the Past instead (as I feel this will do less for my opponents) to really kick this setup into overdrive to amass enough advantage to close out the game with it. This is the reason I included Trophy Mage: it finds Ashnod's Altar. The deck can gain infinite life.
As for turning it into a more general contol deck, I think I ought to go with the full hatebears package. At first I was afraid it would draw to much hate my way but I think slowing down my opponents down might be more important.
For returning stuff: I actually included Pull from Eternity + Kaho, Minamo Historian to go find it, because a lot of the removal I face in my meta is exile, and having Arcane Adaptation, Training Grounds and/or Conspiracy exiled really bites. This will allow the deck to recover even from that. Maybe this is too overkill protection wise as it eats two slots and Greater Auramancy might protect enough already. Phyrexian Reclamation can be like a backup for Sivvi. After saccing a creature, just return it to hand and recast it. It's a bit more mana intensive but it keeps the basic engine going. I'm running Hanna, Ship's Navigator instead of Restoration Specialist... not sure which is better. I alos have Skull of Orm in there, that's a bit costly to use. I think I would prefer running the Restoration Specialist in it's place besides Hanna.
For finishers, I initially went with Aegis angel (double duty to protect Arcane Adaptation) and Mirror Entity. I actually like the newer combination of Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite+Godhead of Awe as it allows you to control more opponents at the same time. Mirror Entity is actually a really nice addition as you can overwrite the p/t settings of the godhead for a turn. So I think my finisher package would be Elesh Norn, Godhead and Mirror Entity. Not sure if there's still room for the Angel at that point as for purely a protection card 6 mana is a bit steep but the fact it synergizes on two different levels might make it worthwhile nevertheless.
This deck has no ramp outside of Land Tax. I did include Trinket Mage, mostly to find Elixir of Immortality. Being able to repeatedly activate the Elixir is a sort of backup for Sivvi's second ability: the repeated lifegain is just gravy. I included three artifacts in the lands so it can find those too. How I did not include Sol Ring is beyond me: it should obviously be in. If the eventual deck can consistently gain enough / infinite life then Mana Crypt might be good too.
As I play mostly multiplayer, Portal Mage and Merieke ri Berit seem really good here to be able to mess with combat after attackers have been declared: just send the ugly stuff somewhere else or borrow a blocker. Merieke also offers a way to deal with resilient creatures besides exiling.
Aegis of the Gods is there mostly to prevent graveyard exiling. Most graveyard exiling effects target the opponent you want to do it too, this is the tech to preven that from happening (Point that Bojuka Bog elsewhere please).
Last but not least, both Mistmeadow Witch and Azorius Guildmage have really powerfull activated abilities. Training Grounds makes these really affordable. There's always something usefull you can use these on: the witch can blink your own creatures in response to their etb getting you another trigger and never returning the thing exiled with the first one. It can make a creature summoning sick again so it can't attack you. You can go diplomatic with it by giving others triggers in exchange for favors. It's just an amazing card. The guildmage the same way. Tapping a creature is not that exciting (even though really usefull) but having Stifle as an activated ability available on hand is so powerful, people will really have to play around you having this. Countering a fetch land's ability is one thing, but there are so many things you can counter with this it's not even funny (on he other side of the table that is).
Tidehollow Sculler is another card I think really deserves to be in the deck to allow you to attack cards in hand directly. Since this deck can get in in play on instant speed, this can be sweet tech to exile whatever an opponent who is in trouble just spend his tutor on during his draw step.
As I'm writing this: would this deck not benefit hugely from a Panharmonicon?
Quote from RileyMcAwesome »Play tested Solemnity + Phyrexian Unlife + Geralf's Messenger + Viscera Seer. I run a very similar list, but I dropped Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Resolute Archangel, and then just ran Viscera Seer and had space because I can't afford some of the other cards on this list.
The combo is nice because, especially in group games of 4 to 6 players, combo wins are useful. And with one enchantment out, and pretty much any two rebels, you can win out of nowhere in the combat step. But once people learned I had that combo, I because a huge target. Everyone already dislikes this deck because it can answer ANYTHING at instant speed so the combo makes the deck bigger target. I want to try replacing Viscera Seer with Trophy Mage and running an Ashnod's Altar (because Trophy Mage finds more things than just this combo, and scrying doesn't really do anything for this deck), but haven't gotten around to it yet.
In other news, a friend of mine loves my version of the deck and may be making his own soon. Thanks for sharing this brew, it is the most fun with EDH I've had in awhile!
Quote from cyberium_neo »You have 34 lands in your newest list instead of 35. I love the progress of this deck.
What do you think of Angelic Renewal and Gift of Immortality, as addition protection and re-trigger of creatures?
Quote from darrenhabib »
I have tried Phyrexian Reclamation as a means to get multiple uses out of creatures, but I found it underwhelming, life loss, plus recasting was too much. But I like the look of Angelic Renewal, and I have been unimpressed with Bound in Silence, so I'm going to do the swap and see how goes. Gift of Immortality is obviously a good card, but with Zur, Vanishing is the way to go for protection, so I think taking the time/turn for Gift is a bit narrow considering what creatures are really good for it and they can still can be Swords or Pathed.