Five Color Tribal Guide - Choose Your Own Adventure: Slivers, Atogs, Allies, or Spirits!
The Concept
I like five-color decks, and I enjoy a number of commanders in those colors. However, they range greatly between commanders (both in terms of power level and play style), and it’s a hassle to construct and deconstruct decks every time I want to play a different five-color deck. The goal here is to have a base set of cards as a starting point (hereinafter “Core Cards”), and then have four separate lists from which to complete different decks.
These decks range greatly between power level, from Casual/Joke (Atogatog), to Almost a Joke (O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami), to Moderate (General Tazri) , to Strong (Sliver Overlord). In this way, I am able to adjust my deck to fit the playstyle of the group I’m playing with, and am able to change the deck on-the-fly in case I get bored with any particular deck. I’m sticking to tribal themes in order to avoid “goodstuff” decks, so we have Slivers, Atogs, Allies, and Spirits.
I’m calling this deck Choose Your Own Adventure after the name of a book series I really enjoyed as a child. If you’re unfamiliar, do an internet search for “Choose Your Own Adventure Books” and prepare to be amazed. The concept is that the stories are told through the protagonist, and as such you get to make decisions as the story progresses, and those decisions lead you down a different story line (via different page numbers). Like that series, this deck can progress and allow you to choose your own adventure with Slivers, Atogs, Allies, or Spirits!
The decks in this thread are color-coded to help you to not get lost. Slivers are green, Atogs are red, Allies are blue, and Spirits are gray. For ease of use, make sure you utilize the Table of Contents below to jump to sections that you consider relevant. I suggest you check out the “Core Cards” section first, and then jump to the specific tribe you’re interested in to see my decklist and some notes on how to play that list. Just take each decklist, add in the “Core Cards,” and you’ve got my version of that tribe built and ready to go!
In terms of actually playing these decks, I keep my “Core Cards” all together, double-sleeved, with no stickers on the perfect fit. For each of my tribe-specific cards, I use a small sticker that I put on the outside of the perfect fit, and keep them color-coordinated, so that all the Sliver cards have green stickers, all the Atog cards have red stickers, etc. In this way, I am able to switch between the decks fairly quickly.
Slivers
My first five-color deck idea was Slivers. As a young player, I really enjoyed Slivers and desperately wanted to make a deck based around them. But this never happened. I took a long break from the game, came back, and realized that Slivers had more support than they had when I stopped playing (I began in Revised, then took a break after Odyssey block, then came back during Innistrad block). I always had a Sliver Queen (in fact, I collected an entire Stronghold set), and now I had a way to put it to good use. Thankfully, many others on this site shared my love for Slivers, and I found a wealth of resources to help steer my deckbuilding for Slivers. So back in early 2014 I built a Slivers deck, and have been tuning the deck ever since. A special thanks to CruxMDQ’s thread here for a ton of great ideas and discussions about all things Slivers. While I prefer an agro-style Sliver deck, they can be played as a combo deck very easily.
Atogs Atog has always been one of my favorite cards, mostly for the art. The other reason is that, as a young player, I found the notion of making my Atog unblockable using Dwarven Warriors, and then pumping him afterwards, was the most ingenious idea. Ever. While browsing this site, I happened upon Atogatog. I’d never seen it before (I was taking a break when it came out), and I really liked him, so I wanted to make a goofy deck around him. Again, I found a ton of resources on this site for the deck (its own thread is here), and created an exceedingly casual deck full of atogs. This deck was built soon after I built Slivers, and was designed to be a much less competitive 5-color deck. It is designed to win through an alpha-strike attack that sacrifices a lot of permanents to pump a very large Atogatog to win through commander damage.
Allies
Like a lot of players in magic, I’ve always liked Allies, but never felt they had the support to make a legitimate EDH deck. I’d already had my exercise in building a very casual deck with a subpar and under-supported tribe (Atogs), so I never considered building Allies. However, the Battle for Zendikar block has printed some pretty strong Allies, and not the least of which is a long-anticipated 5-Color Ally general, General Tazri. Together, with some tribe support via mass ETB abilities, along with the ability to combo with Food Chain, I think this deck is a moderately powerful deck, but will not be oppressive. A special thanks to HardCasting’s ally list, located here, for ideas for my ally deck.
Spirits
With the addition of Commander 2017, and its focus on tribal EDH, I went back to my Five Color Project and saw another 5-color tribe I wanted to try out: Spirits. I’ve never had much love for spirits, but when I saw Kindred Boon, I immediately thought about the Myojin cards and the idea started to take form. I of course found O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami as a flavorful commander, but it also doubles as a realistic way to close out games. This deck is designed to win via flooding the board with spirit tokens, or through flying damage from larger-than-normal spirits. It is a very casual deck, but it is fun for a change of pace. Looking forward to working with Cheethorne with his spirit deck, located here, to fine tune my list.
Playing a five-color EDH deck gives you access to every single card; however, the temptation is strong to then just plop all the “best” cards into one deck (“Goodstuff”) and call it a day. I prefer to build a deck with a theme in order to play what I believe to be “in the spirit of EDH”. With these decks, I’ve chosen tribal themes, which have a reputation for being weak. On the other hand, these decks are a blast to play with, and allow you to use some creative deckbuilding to accomplish some things that you might not otherwise be able to do without access to five colors and a tribe.
Reasons to play five-color tribal:
You want smash face with Slivers, or Allies, Spirits, or Atogs! Tribal decks are really fun to play!
You do not want to be focused early in the game – with the exception of Slivers, a five-color tribal deck will not usually be a very threatening force at a given table. While some generals will get attacked early based upon players’ bias against that general, you will not usually find someone focusing you because you show your Atogatog, O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami, General Tazri.
You like interactive play and the combat step – these tribal decks generally rely on attacking to finish players off.
Reasons to not play five-color tribal:
You play in a very competitive meta – these decks are meant to be played in a more casual environment.
You do not like the combat step – some players enjoy decks that focus more on combos or spells to do most of the work. These decks do not do those things.
These decks can be blown out by board wipes – although these decks will have ways to recover from board wipes, they are strongest when you have a large board state, which lends itself to over-committing to the board.
You are typically weak against combo players. Some meta games have a lot of combo players, and others do not. If you find yourself playing against a majority of players who win the game by using a 2 or 3-card combination, these decks might not be for you.
Other popular options for five-color commanders:
Child of Alara – I have seen this commander at the helm of decks that run a ton of sweepers or run a ton of noncreature spells. Its ability would wipe out a tribal-themed deck, so it would not be good here.
Progenitus – this is a general I have seen many times but usually only used for his colors. I think his mana cost would be cost-prohibitive as a realistic threat, and he does not have a tribal type that I care to build around.
Karona, False God/Cromat – I have seen these generals also typically used as a way to play a 5-color "goodstuff" deck, but generally not as a theme. Both have interesting abilities, but neither are cards that would be easy to use as a tribal general.
Scion of the Ur-Dragon/Reaper King/Horde of Notions – these three all could head up a tribal deck, I simply am not currently interested in trying out these tribes. Maybe something to look forward to in the future?
Below is a list of what I consider the “core cards” of my 5-color decks. I attempted to keep the core cards as minimal as possible, since I want the four versions to play out very differently from each other. The core consists primarily of the mana base, some artifact mana fixing, and some all-star cards for each of the four versions of this deck. I’m sure some of the cards that only appear in one version could appear in multiple, but I tried to keep the core cards to ONLY those cards that are amazing in all four versions.
Slivers Mission Statement
The overarching strategy of playing this Slivers deck is simple – flood the board and attack for lethal. This is an easy strategy, and the fact that your commander tutors up any sliver to your hand makes your entire deck a “toolbox” style deck, meaning that you can search up specific slivers for when the occasion calls for them. This deck can quickly kill players out of nowhere, and most players who have played against a decent sliver deck knows this. Do not be surprised when the table attacks you. You are on the clock to knock players out quickly because they know that you have THEM on a clock.
Early Game
Early on, you will want to craft your mana base so that you have the proper mana sources to cast your general. Ramping is very helpful, as the quicker you get your commander out, the more quickly you can close in on the kill. Try to use the early turns to drop your mana fixing or mana acceleration, or drop slivers that will protect your future army, like Crystalline Sliver or Root Sliver.
This enchantment will speed up your kills by using your commander’s abilities.
Mid Game
By now, you should have a solid mana base. In this stage of the game, you should have access to all your colors of mana and hopefully have some type of protection in place for your slivers. At this point, you want to play your general, Sliver Overlord, as quickly as possible. You will also want to make sure that your slivers have haste at this point using either Heart Sliver or Blur Sliver, as this will help you kill opponents much more quickly. Once you do, you can tutor for the appropriate slivers which will either help you react to a developing problem, or to pressure your opponents’ life totals. Refer to the below section, “Sliver Tutoring”, for details about what types of slivers you should search for depending on the scenario you encounter.
If you have a decent board, he should end the game the turn he lands.
Late Game
By this stage in the game, you should have the mana you need, protection for your slivers, and the ability to tutor for whichever sliver you want. You can quickly end games by dropping a Sliver Legion and a way to prevent blocking, such as Shifting Sliver, Shadow Sliver, or Ward Sliver. If your board gets wiped for any reason, that’s ok – we have a few outs to that, including Living Death and Patriarch’s Bidding. If not, we have a critical mass of creatures that should be able to be built up again quickly using your commander’s abilities.
Giving your creatures flash is a HUGE advantage.
Sliver Tutoring
If you need answers to your opponents threats, you will want to tutor up slivers like Harmonic Sliver, Necrotic Sliver, or Telekinetic Sliver. Note that the deck has a way to deal with most threats simply by tutoring for the proper sliver.
If you need to finish off your opponents, you will want to tutor up slivers that grant your team evasion, like Galerider Sliver, Shifting Sliver, Shadow Sliver, or Ward Sliver. These all should remove blocking as an option for opponents.
Sliver Queen + Training Grounds + Basal Sliver and any other sliver to sacrifice gives you infinite slivers. You can use them to kill any number of ways, including attacking or sacrificing for any number of abilities that your other slivers have granted.
Sliver Queen + Basal Sliver + Gemhide Sliver will give you infinite colored mana. From there you can kill opponents a number of ways, and you can tutor up all of your slivers using your commander.
This sliver gets nuts if your team has double strike.
This card should typically end the game if it resolves.
Paths to Victory
Attacking. This deck wins most often by brute force – attacking your opponents for lethal damage.
Combo. As listed above in the “Important Synergies” section, this deck has a few combos up its sleeve which allow it to win without attacking.
Deck Weaknesses
Tons of removal. Though this deck is resilient, if you are in a meta where tons of spot and mass removal are present, this deck will struggle.
Hardcore control. This deck is very mana-intensive, so decks that aim at reducing your ability to generate a lot of mana will slow down or kill this deck. This strategy also can work by keeping your creatures tapped or unable to attack.
Atogs Mission Statement
The goal of this deck is to pump up a massive Atogatog and swing for lethal. This strategy is an “all-or-nothing” strategy, meaning that it can either work, or we get blown out. What makes pumping up your commander easier is that the deck uses a lot of recursion in order to repeatedly sacrifice things. You should only go in for a kill (meaning sacrificing a lot of your permanents) if you are reasonably sure you won’t get stopped by removal, blockers, etc. When it works, it’s great! When it doesn’t, at least you tried? Who cares – it’s Atog tribal!
This card really helps this deck power out a win!
Early Game
Early on, you want to set up your sacrifice fodder. You should play some of your less-powerful Atogs like Auratog or Atog, and play some of your lower casting cost artifacts and enchantments. Make sure you keep a note of how much power you could give to your commander, should you sacrifice everything to atogs and then sacrifice those atogs to your commander.
Mid Game
In this phase of the game, you should be developing your board and preparing to go in for the kill. You should cast your commander and be able to represent lethal on the board if you sacrificed your permanents properly. In this phase of the game, you could get in chunks of damage against opponents or play defensively. You might even take a player out, depending on your hand.
Double his power, sacrifice to your commander, profit!
Late Game
In this phase of the game, you need to keep the juice flowing. If you take out an opponent by sacrificing your permanents, you should make sure you can either recur most of what you sacrifice, or have a card like Second Sunrise or Faith's Reward so that you can do it again. If necessary, you should deploy nasty lockdowns like Enchanted Evening + Calming Verse, which should end the game if it resolves.
Important Synergies
Chameleon Colossus is one of the best ways to pump our commander for a quick kill via commander damage. Generally you will want to wait until after blocks have been declared for you to pump up your commander.
This deck has a degenerate interaction: Enchanted Evening + Calming Verse (make sure you tap down all your lands!) should destroy each permanent your opponents control. This should effectively end the game, assuming you have any creatures on board.
Barren Glory is a last resort. Sometimes you just cannot win with combat, and this allows you a way to win without needing to attack. You will need a way to sacrifice all your permanents, so this should be used only late game when you have all the atogs that can sacrifice each type of permanent out on your field.
Activate Cauldron of Souls before you sacrifice your atogs in order to use them again later!
If you have Enduring Renewal and Aluren in play, plus any of the atogs that cost 3 or less, you can infinitely pump your commander at instant speed by repeatedly sacrificing, returning to hand, and replaying that atog.
Allows you to sacrifice all your permanents!
Paths to Victory
Commander Damage from Atogatog: this deck is designed to sacrifice permanents to different atogs, and then feed them to your commander for lethal.
Barren Glory: as a last resort, you can attempt to satisfy the requirements of this enchantment to win the game. It’s dangerous though, since it leaves you with zero permanents and zero cards in hand, should Barren Glory be removed prior to your upkeep.
Deck Weaknesses
Removal: this deck is very weak to spot removal. Decks that can remove your commander after you pump him will really hurt you. The same is true for boardwipes, since that will kill your atogs AND your commander.
Graveyard Hate: this deck is designed to recur permanents repeatedly so that you can sacrifice them. If your opponents have some well-timed graveyard hate, it can severely cripple this deck’s ability to fight.
Sacrifice prevention: There are a few cards that shut down sacrifice shenanigans, and those cards really hurt this deck. They include It that Betrays and Angel of Jubilation.
Allies Mission Statement
The goal of this deck is to generate massive advantage from the ETB abilities of the allies, which should kill our opponents. If not, we can attack with allies for lethal damage. There are a few combos in this deck that allow for a quick combo win as well.
The engine to a mean combo!
Early Game
Early on, you will want to cast allies that set you up for victory later on. In addition, you will want to play ramp or mana fixing, as this deck is very mana intensive.
Mid Game
During the mid game, you will want to play spells that help you benefit from all the ETB triggers your deck offers. Cards like Purphoros, God of the Forge and Panharmonicon are great here. This is a good time to cast Sunforger if you have it, as it allows you some great options and allows you to protect your army in the event of mass removal.
Tons of triggers kill opponents!
Late Game
In this stage of the game, you should be able to cast your general and swing for lethal. Really dangerous cards like Tajuru Warcaller and Triumph of the Hordes help knock out opponents. This is also the stage of the game where you can assemble a Food Chain combo or a Zada, Hedron Grinder play for massive advantage. For more on these synergies, look below to the “Important Synergies” section.
Allies Tutoring
Because General Tazri allows you to tutor up whatever ally you want, it allows the deck to play like a “toolbox” style deck, meaning that you are able to go search for whatever tool is appropriate for any given situation. This deck has answers to different types of threats available to you in the form of allies. You have artifact removal in Tuktuk Scrapper, creature removal in Murasa Pyromancer, or hand destruction in Bala Ged Thief. You will need to become familiar with the different abilities of your allies so that you know which allies to tutor in which scenarios.
Important Synergies
Food Chain combo: This deck can win with a combo involving Food Chain, a creature that you can cast from exile, and any permanent that triggers on creatures entering or leaving the battlefield. With Food Chain out, you can sacrifice either Misthollow Griffin or Eternal Scourge to Food Chain and then recast them, netting you +1 mana of any color for each time you do so. With infinite colored mana, you can then cast General Tazri, and use his search ETB to fetch a creature like Zulaport Cutthroat, Kalastria Healer, or Halimar Excavator to kill the table. This combo is very resilient to removal, all of it can be done at instant speed and there is redundancy built in the deck. The only piece that is vulnerable is Food Chain, so make sure you protect it once it is out.
Zada, Hedron Grinder is powerful once you have a significant board presence. Casting cards like Expedite or Shelter on him should draw you a full hand and then some, or you can give your whole team double strike with Boros Charm.
His ability allows for massive advantage in the late game!
Paths to Victory
Combat Damage: This deck is easily capable of flooding the board with allies, buffing them up, and attacking for lethal.
Combo: assembling a Food Chain combo, as noted above, is another way to end the game.
ETB Triggers: many of the allies in this list can kill opponents given enough ETB triggers, as can Purphoros, God of the Forge. It is quite easy to simply cast and recast enough creatures to kill your opponents.
Allies love ETB triggers, and this doubles them!
Deck Weaknesses
There are a number of cards in Magic that turn off ETB triggers, like Torpor Orb and Hushwing Gryff. These cards neuter this deck and must be dealt with immediately.
As with most tribal decks, this deck is weak to mass removal. Though we have some recursion, if you face a meta with a lot of board wipes, this deck will have a hard time finishing out a game.
Spirits Mission Statement
The goal of this deck is to play a ton of spirits and attack for lethal. Because most of the spirits in this deck are high mana cost, the other goals of the deck are to survive until you can play them and to protect them once they are on the field.
Makes your Myojin really dangerous!
Early Game
In the early parts of the game, the focus should be on developing your mana base. This deck is extremely mana-intensive, so you will want to make sure you hit your land drops and cast cards that ramp you.
Mid Game
In the mid game, you will want to make sure you continue to generate a ton of mana, and also cast cards that trigger when you cast creatures/spirits/arcane spells, like Infernal Kirin or Primordial Sage. In this way, you can put some pressure on opponents while still leading up to your big bombs. This is also a good point in the game to cast your general and apply pressure with him as well.
Repeatable Myojin effects will cripple your opponents!
Late Game
In the late game, the deck should be dropping bombs like Myojin of Night's Reach. With Kindred Boon out, all of the Myojin become much more dangerous, and their effects are repeatable. A lot of the deck is focused around the higher casting cost spirits, so try to drop 1 or 2 and ride them to victory. You do not want to overextend on the board – rather, cast and protect a few big creatures in order to win.
Important Synergies
Kindred Boon + any of the Myojin will allow you access to a repeatable powerful effect on an indestructible body.
Don’t be afraid to play aggressive early with your spirits. The deck has a lot of recursion and you should be able to get back most of what has gone to your graveyard.
Yup, honden have strength in numbers!
Paths to Victory
This deck only has one way to win – by attacking with spirits.
Deck Weaknesses
This deck’s main weakness is that it is incredibly slow. The deck is focused on the higher casting cost spirits, and they take a lot of time in order to cast them. Because of this, aggressive decks like agro or combo have a chance to kill us before we start dropping our big bombs.
Conflux in Spirits: It's a great card, but it costs SO much to cast the spell. The benefit is that it would allow me to fill my hand with whatever spells fit the situation, but the deck is already very slow and the average converted mana costs of the spells is really high. Still, tempting to add...
Fist of Suns in Spirits: Along with the above thoughts on Conflux, I recognize that the deck has a curve that is way too high. This artifact would help cast any of those really high casting cost spirits for 5 mana instead of 8, 9, even 12...that seems like a great deal. However, I'm conflicted, because I feel like simply adding in more mana-producing artifacts would help more often that the fist, as those artifacts would help me cast EVERY spell in my deck, not just the really high CMC ones.
Unnatural Selection in Slivers: With this and my commander out, it would mean I could steal any creature for 5 generic mana. This is a really strong ability; however, given that my deck is purely aggressive, I wonder if this would simply slow me down? The creatures I'd really need killed are ones like Spike Weaver, Peacekeeper, or Magus of the Moat. I think I already have enough ways to kill problematic creatures, but if I feel I do not through playtesting, I will strongly consider adding this in.
Demonic Tutor and other good tutors to Allies: I have considered adding in some good tutors to Allies because the main kill involves Food Chain. I haven't tested the deck much, but I think it will be able to win pretty well without the combo. I don't really want to make the deck always try to combo, but if I find the deck is too weak, I might consider adding in some tutors.
Door of Destinies in Spirits: This card comes down before a majority of my spirits, and the buff is significant. However, I haven't really played the deck much, so I'll have to test and see if their size matters, or simply dropping them matters. If it's the former, I will likely add this card.
Kindred Discovery to Core Cards: This card is bonkers. I've got one ready to slot into these decks somehow. I feel that it would benefit Slivers the most, but I really think it would do well in all of them. My concern is that I don't think Atogs would benefit from it all that much, and I don't think I can track down 3 copies right now. It's going somewhere, I just haven't decided yet.
Seasons Past for Atogs and Allies: This card is really good, and I think these two decks have enough distribution among converted mana costs to make it a really good play. However, I'm curious if Patriarch's Bidding and Living Death are enough mass recursion.
Pretty ambitious to go so in depth with 4 different tribes! I will definitely keep am eye on this thread. I've been considering a casual spirit tribal with O-Kagachi as well. If I find any especially interesting things with it I'll post them here.
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I dug up a Mana Echoes, going to add it to slivers. Also, played against another sliver deck, saw Sedge Sliver , once I pick one up I'd like to find a spot for it.
So I have very little experience with the "Splice Into Arcane" spells. I currently only have Soulless Revival and Wear Away; however, it occurred to me that these splice cards all get stronger with the more arcane spells I use. I did a gatherer search here and reviewed all the possibilities. What I'm looking for is if anyone has had a lot of success with any splice cards that I'm missing. For me, the most obvious splice card, and the only one I've seen used a lot, is Goryo's Vengeance. I'm hesitant to use it because it exiles the dude I'm resurrecting, and this deck has quite a bit of recursion. That being said, below is a list of splice cards I think are worth considering. Anyone use these? Were they great, or was it just too gimmicky? Thanks in advance!
Blessed Breath: Can be used offensively or defensively, which is why I like it. However, defensively, I'd have to splice onto some other arcane spell I wanted to cast, so the timing might never be exactly what I want out of this card.
Consuming Vortex: Wow, I really wish this said "nonland permanent" instead of creature. As is, it's probably too narrow for my taste.
Overblaze: I think this is overcosted, but we DO have a lot of high-power creatures. Giving them double strike would significantly reduce the time opponents have to respond; however, just like with Blessed Breath, I'm concerned that the timing will usually not be what I want.
Spiritual Visit: This is very thematic. Unfortunately, it feels like it would be too insignificant to earn a spot in the deck.
Through the Breach: I've seen this card used before, usually with eldrazi. It wouldn't be terrible in this deck, as my creatures end up in the yard.
Veil of Secrecy: Not bad, and the splice cost can actually help retrigger ETBs of some of the more powerful spirits. However, this will probably be too insignificant to be in this deck.
There really are a ton of great cards that could go into the "Core Cards" section. The three you named, for example, would be solid additions. My concern with Call to the Kindred is that it is an easy 2-for-1 for my opponents, and I have to wait until my upkeep to possibly get the payoff. In my typical meta, I could generally assume that the creature that I enchant will not make it around to my next upkeep. Descendant's Path is good, and I like that it is a permanent, but I really did want to make my decks play out different. Same with Coat of Arms - great card, would do really well in most of these decks, but I want variety in the decks. I really should consider adding these cards in at least one of my versions though, thanks for the find!
Well, I got a lot of good input about Arcane spells in my post over in the commander forum, located here, and so I'm making a few changes.
First, I really liked Reaper's suggestion to use Isochron Scepter with splice cards. That will allow me to get more mileage out of them. With that in mind, I'm aiming at lower CMC Arcane spells.
I also liked, and can't believe I forgot, Ryperior's suggestion of Long-Forgotten Gohei. When I cracked some MM15, I'm sure I pulled 5 of these, but bulked them out long ago because back then I never expected I'd make a spirits tribal deck - oh how times change!
In terms of the spell suite, I think the following will need testing: Ethereal Haze, Overblaze, Yuki-Onna, Hana Kami, Reach Through Mists. Conveniently, there are five spells that I want to test, and there's 5 hoden enchantments that aren't great but I've kept in the list for only flavor reasons. I'll be testing this 5-card swap.
That thread linked above also brought about the following suggestions, some of which I knew about and others I did not. I think they warrant discussion and I'd love to hear ideas on what to cut for them:
Petalmane Baku: With me going more heavy on Arcane spells, this might be a more potent mana ramp than I thought.
Elder Pine of Jukai: Similarly, if I'm playing more low-cost arcane spells, I get to hit my land drops faster with this.
Angel of Flight Alabaster: She's not a spirit, but my yard will be filled with them, and this lets me cherry pick from my yard. Not bad.
Kokusho, the Evening Star: I knew about all the dragon spirits, but I've only had one copy of Kokusho and I couldn't move it to this deck. But with iconic masters coming out, they will all be more readily available, so this one is definitely going in, and maybe Yosei.
Spectral Shepherd: A lot of our spirit ETB effects are powerful, and this lets us reuse them. Also useful in response to spot removal or a board wipe. I think he deserves a spot.
Drogskol Cavalry: I don't much care for the life gain, but the ability to pump out tokens is great. They seem expensive, but being able to make them at instant speed means I can also trigger all of my effects that trigger when a spirit ETBs, which also makes me want to add Nebelgast Herald.
Kodama of the Center Tree: I really like Soulshift, and if I add some of the cards above, I'll have more low CMC spirits to make this card much better. I'm still not convinced that I'll be able to make this guy large, given my exceedingly top-heavy mana curve.
Only thing I'd like to point out from an earlier post is that to refer to double strike in relation to Overblaze is not accurate because the doubling is a replacement effect doesn't apply until damage is dealt.
Example with double strike —
5/5 with double strike and trample attacks and is blocked by a 3/3. On the first damage assignment step, the attacking creature's controller assigns lethal damage to the blocker with 3 damage and assigns the other 2 to the defending player. In the normal damage assignment step, 5 damage is assigned. In total, the blocker receives 3 damage and the defending player receives 7 damage.
Example with damage doubling —
5/5 with trample and a single instance of Overblaze in effect attacks and is blocked by a 3/3. On the normal damage assignment step, the attacking creature's controller assigns lethal damage to the blocker with 3 damage and assigns the remaining 2 to the defending player. When damage is dealt the 3 damage becomes 6 and the 2 damage becomes 4. In total, the blocker receives 6 damage and the defending player receives 4 damage.
Another thing you'll have to map out with the Isochron Scepter plan (and in general) is that some spells are useless to splice onto others. You could imprint Ethereal Haze onto the Scepter, but splicing Overblaze onto it when you cast it is just a waste of 2RR. It does become more interesting with a few of the others like Blessed Breath and Veil of Secrecy.
My experience with splice onto arcane was in the context of an 8-card arcane package in Zada, Hedron Grinder. The impression I have — and this might be heavily biased by the aggressive nature of that deck — is that any time you're actually splicing is a proactive effort and that you're usually not holding up that much mana for reactive efforts. So for reactive purposes, you might consider the spell's effect as if the card did not have splice onto arcane.
I think I'll just end up picking 4-5 Arcane spells that I'd like to put on Isochron Scepter and 3-4 "payoff" cards that are decent when hardcast, or good when spliced. I've got a lot of choices!
I got in some games over the past few weeks. Tested Spirits and Allies. Allies were amazing - I assembled the Food Chain combo on turn 5 and then on turn 6. I think this was mostly luck, as I draw into Food Chain naturally both games.
Spirits were predictably slow. I'm considering cutting 1-2 of the higher CMC spirits and replacing them with some of the lower cmc spirits. I was very impressed with soulshift cards like Moonlit Strider which allowed me to cycle spirits like Kami of Ancient Law and my often-killed Rattlechains.
About your ally deck. It was my understanding that Panharmonicon will work with only the ally cards that do not have rally. That means that Kalastria Healer does not trigger the panharmonicon but Halimar Excavator would. If this is the case then how has Panharmonicon worked for you so far?
I was not aware of the distinction between Rally triggers and regular ETB effects. The way I read Panharmonicon, it would seem that a Rally trigger still triggers Panharmonicon because a creature (in this case, an ally entering) is causing an ability to trigger (Rally). That being said, Panharmonicon has been performing well, but if I misunderstood the ruling, I might have to consider whether to keep it or not.
I did get in a lot of games over the weekend with the ally deck, and it did VERY well. I won by combat 3 games in a row, and never had to rely on the Food Chain combo. While I like Bring to Light, it is a tutor and is unable to find Food Chain, so at some point, if I want to increase the power level of the ally deck, I might consider swapping Bring to Light for a more traditional tutor.
I also noticed that every game I was tutoring up Sea Gate Loremaster with my first General Tazri trigger, which leads me to think that I should add in a few more pieces of card draw in the deck. I could envision a scenario where, if the Loremaster gets exiled, then I am left without a good way to keep my hand full and the pressure on.
About your ally deck. It was my understanding that Panharmonicon will work with only the ally cards that do not have rally. That means that Kalastria Healer does not trigger the panharmonicon but Halimar Excavator would. If this is the case then how has Panharmonicon worked for you so far?
I was not aware of the distinction between Rally triggers and regular ETB effects. The way I read Panharmonicon, it would seem that a Rally trigger still triggers Panharmonicon because a creature (in this case, an ally entering) is causing an ability to trigger (Rally). That being said, Panharmonicon has been performing well, but if I misunderstood the ruling, I might have to consider whether to keep it or not.
There is no distinction there. The cards with "Rally — Whenever ~ or another Ally enters..." would behave the exact same if they just had "Whenever ~ or another Ally enters" because Rally is just an ability word and has no rules meaning. It's for flavor.
Today (December 1, 2017), the Rules Committee (RC) announced that until January 15, 2018, most silver-bordered cards (from Un-sets) will be legal in commander. You can see the announcement here.
This is not a place to discuss if you agree or disagree with what the RC has done. Rather, I'd like some community help in finding some un-gems that will fit well with this deck. Aside from lands, I have very little experience playing with un-cards, as does the rest of my regular playgroup. While I expect some of them to be resistant to this change, I wanted to compile a list of potentially powerful cards that I could consider adding on a temporary basis.
Things I'd like to look for in suggested cards:
I do not want to play too "over the top" cards. I recognize this is very subjective. The best way I can think to illustrate it is this: I'd consider GO TO JAIL as a solid removal spell that is not too "over the top", while I'd consider Skull Saucer to be too "over the top" for consideration in my playgroup.
I know there are some really powerful un-cards. However, these decks are all 5 color tribal lists, and as such, I'd like to keep the potential additions as thematic as I can.
Has anyone already been testing the newest un-set? If so, how have contraptions been working for you?
Unstable: Ineffable Blessing: This seems like a solid addition to a lot of the decks. Maybe not Atogs, since they aren't as creature-dense as the others, but this seems like a good source of card draw for the rest.
I did not see any Unhinged cards that were worth playing in these lists.
I did not see any Unglued cards that were worth playing in these lists.
First of I notice heralds horn is missing in core (they are tribal decks) notmonly it's a slightly weaker and budget urza's incubator you get to scry the top card I'm some sort of way and if it's a creature that matches the type you chose you have the option to reveal for a two card draw
Well looking at spirits
How come Yuki-Onna isn't in the deck it's the artifact version of nikko-onna
And for those brave enough to get it Kira, Great Glass-Spinner is a safety net in case you loose drogskol captain plus it protect slightly better than drogskol captain since it guards itself.
Ofcoarse other spirits that can keep the board under control we have Kataki, War's Wage for artifacts also immensely slows ramp and is Breya, Etherium Shaper decks worst nightmare Ore Gorger for nasty non basic lands like cabal coffers. Kami of False Hope is good against aggro decks and since you can recur it easily you will get Krenko, Mob Boss deck owners furious at you. Next up Sekki, Seasons' Guide this is definitely a brick wall it gets damage just makes the way even bigger with a lot of 1/1 chump blockers
Final of control catergory I mentioned the spirit dragons they are rattlesnakes when they die a extraordinary ability triggers
WYoseiW = stasis a player for a turn UKeigaU = Control magic but difference is homeward path esc cards is the only way to get it back (and removal) BKokushoB = Exsanguinate set to 5 RRyuseiR = a weaker Blasphemous Act GJuganG (not recommended) = blessing of nature but doesn't need miracle and gives one more counter
A goal is casting triggers so we got four kings to keep it going
First is the onna cycle they have great etc effects and cast a spirit they go back into hand if you want
Next is Spectral shepherd not only he can protect your spirits from removal he can repeat cast trigger
Then we have Glitterfang only cost one for cast trigger and early aggro and is just a pogo stick that goes back to hand.
Finally we have Blinking Spirit it can return to hand for free so repeatable cats trigger
for ramp just one thing petalmane Baku cast the Spirit for more counters then you can tap one mana any time to filter it to the colors you need for mana and it's ramp too because you can remove any amount of colors and get that much mana.
Last but not least hidden gems
Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar - you choose from the top three to draw so you get the best draw each time. The Unspeakable - want a way to get arcanes back here you go. Hana Kami - Same as Unpseakable but recursion on a stick is required. Long-Forgotten Gohei - arcanes becoming cheaper and spirits getting a buff sign me up! Descendants' Path - look at the part it saids "cast without paying its converted mana cost" you know what that means CAST TRIGGER PALOZA!!! Sun-birds invocation - this is way way way way...way better than maelstrom nexusit triggers all the time and you get to choose what to cast from the revealed (if the number is high enough) and it also triggers cast trigger spirits. Get it while it's cheap. Choice of Damnations - say goodnight token focus decks particularly krenko decks Eerie Procession (only put in if lots of arcanes are in deck) - getting the correct arcane for the board situation sounds about right to me. Field of Souls - nontoken spirit deaths then all the sudden substitutes jump out how convenient. Ghostly Prison - hey ghost and spirit are the same meaning of and enchantments are hard to get rid of and make a brick wall for aggro decks. Genju of the Realm a enchantment that turns a land to a man land sounds nice and it's huge.
Oh one more thing the patron cycle is optional but pretty good depending on the route you choose for spirit tribal
Patron of the Kitsune - can negate 1 power creatures particularly krenkos tokens and this also activates from your creatures attacking.
Patron of the Moon - this is the rarest type of card in existance "blue cards that have huge ramp"
Patron of the Orochi - well good in snake tribal but not overkill on forest and green creatures in this especial in five color but if Prismatic Omen is in the deck get this in asap
Thanks for all the great feedback! I'm going to be doing some major work on the spirit deck over the holiday season, since I'll have some time off work, so I'll come back with an update. I'm sure it will include some of your suggestions!
Also, Random Card of the Day brought Shinen of Life's Roar to my attention. Seems like it might be helpful in this list to push through damage, and also as a neat combat trick. Easily recurred with soulshift, I think this card is now in consideration.
Kagemaro, First to Suffer - the most important aspect of edh is boardsweep and this one can kill indestructible
Arashi, the Sky Asunder/Jiwari, the Earth Aflame - at first I was these aren't good but then...holy cow these are incredible channel is actually can be done at instant speed and these are sweeps green in the air and red on the ground and I forgotten that recursion is really high and even on the feild you can kill creatures 1 at a time easily if you have the mana.
Shinen of Life's Roar - I recall you saw this one but anyway you can either use this on your token spirits or spirits that want to be damaged like sekki season's guide and maybe do it on a opponent's creature like gitrog monster then all the sudden you sweeped the board
I owe a big update to spirits based upon the above comments, and I promise it's forthcoming, but I haven't had the time.
That being said, Rivals of Ixalan is completely spoiled! I'm excited for it, as it's oozing with tribal goodness and seems like it will be a blast to play in limited. But as for my 5-color tribal lists? Below are a list of cards I think deserve a mention. Let me know if you think I missed anything, or what you're excited to try in your own 5 color tribal list! I'll note that the Ascend mechanic seems good with a lot of my lists, as these decks tend to want a lot of permanents in play.
Radiant Destiny: It's a tribal pump enchantment, which is okay. With Ascend, it gets much, much better. I don't think I will include this in my lists, but I think it could be most beneficial in Slivers and Allies.
Twilight Prophet: Super cool card. I won't be using it, but it's an honorable mention because I really wish it were a spirit.
Path of Discovery: These decks are reliant upon creatures, and this rewards my decks for doing what they do naturally - cast creatures. Unfortunately, it doesn't straight up draw a card, so I'm not sure it's worth it.
Hadana's Climb: Neat design space. Unfortunately, none of my decks are reliant upon +1/+1 counters, though spirits get some. The flip side would allow for evasion and alpha striking, but most of my spirits are already big and evasive.
Huatli, Radiant Champion: A likely addition to all decks, this walker is fantastic in my creature-heavy lists, like Allies, Slivers, and Spirits.
Journey to Eternity: Again, neat design space. I think this has appeal to some of my decks, especially Atogs, where it essentially provides a free 'tog sacrifice and is easy to transform. What's more, the flip side will then allow me to easily recur my 'togs.
Protean Raider: A cool clone, would be best in Allies, though I'm not sure I have the room.
Storm the Vault: This would be a great source of mana in all of my decks; unfortunately, the flip ability is not optional, and none of my decks would benefit enough from the transformed side to justify adding it to my lists.
Azor's Gateway: I don't know if this is good in any of my decks, but it's such a unique card that it deserves to at least be mentioned. The flip side is very powerful, but I don't think life loss is the way I'm losing games with these decks (rather, it is from stalling out).
The Immortal Sun: Obvious inclusion in the core list. Virtually no downside. My ally list uses one walker, and I'm considering adding a walker to my core list (Huatli, Radiant Champion), but neither of those facts make the sun any less appealing.
Arch of Orazca: Cool card, and should be activated with some regularity. The only issue is that with a five color deck, having a land that produces only colorless mana is quite a liability.
In terms of the Rivals cards, only The Immortal Sun made the final cut. I hope to update the lists soon.
In the mean time, Dominaria is completely spoiled, and I'm excited for it! Below is a list of cards that I think warrant discussion for inclusion in my lists. Let me know your thoughts. As a threshold matter, these lists do not have enough historic cards to warrant a discussion on any historic-matters cards. However, if you happen to use a list that is more historic-centric, then by all means, add those historic-matters cards in your list!
Demonlord Belzenlok: Because of the great variance in CMCs in my lists, this guy would be a solid source of card draw. However, at 6 CMC with no relevant creature type, and the fact that the card draw is not guaranteed, I think I'll pass.
Yawgmoth's Vile Offering: This is a cool card. Decent recursion and removal; however, at 5 CMC, at sorcery speed, and requiring a legendary creature/walker is likely pushing this into "no thanks".
Muldrotha, the Gravetide: Incredibly strong card. Regrettably, it lacks any tribal synergy, but it is a very strong piece of recursion that is not restricted by card type. Due to lack of tribal synergy, I'll pass.
...so yeah, not much help to these tribal decks, but the set looks like a blast nonetheless!
Battlebond review is below. I am only going to discuss new cards, not reprints, though I'm pretty pumped about the value in the set. I'll discuss possible additions to the decks. Let me know if I missed any or what you're excited to try!
The new lands seem very powerful. Despite that, this deck already has a very good mana base and I don't think these add to it.
Testing Departed Deckhand. He's good in my pirates list, and should be decent here.
Modern Horizons spoilers are in full swing, and today they spoiled a card that should probably go into the core list. I believe until the full spoilers are up, I'm supposed to keep new cards in spoiler tags, so the rest of this conversation is below:
Morophon, the Boundless: Holy cow, what a great card for the core list! This card will be nuts in Atogs, Allies, and Sliver, and decent in Spirits. The cost reduction definitely works wonders for most of them. Spirits, generally, are mono colored with high generic mana costs, so the cost reduction is less amazing there. But he still pumps the tribe, which is great for all tribes, and spirit tokens.
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1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
Shocklands (10)
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
Basic Lands (5)
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Multicolored Lands (3)
1 Command Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Sol Ring
1 Coalition Relic
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Prismatic Geoscope
Removal (2)
1 Beast Within
1 Krosan Grip
Recursion (1)
1 Patriarch's Bidding
Team Pump (2)
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Metallic Mimic
Generic Utility (1)
1 Urza's Incubator
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Slivers Decklist
5 Sliver Overlord
Creatures (40)
1 Galerider Sliver
2 Acidic Sliver
2 Amoeboid Changeling
2 Crypt Sliver
2 Crystalline Sliver
2 Gemhide Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Hibernation Sliver
2 Manaweft Sliver
2 Muscle Sliver
2 Predatory Sliver
2 Quick Sliver
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Sentinel Sliver
2 Winged Sliver
3 Basal Sliver
3 Blade Sliver
3 Blur Sliver
3 Harmonic Sliver
3 Homing Sliver
3 Mindwhip Sliver
3 Mnemonic Sliver
3 Necrotic Sliver
3 Shadow Sliver
4 Bonescythe Sliver
4 Essence Sliver
4 Magma Sliver
4 Root Sliver
4 Shifting Sliver
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Telekinetic Sliver
5 Acidic Slime
5 Brood Sliver
5 Sliver Hivelord
5 Sliver Legion
5 Sliver Queen
5 Synapse Sliver
5 Ward Sliver
6 Megantic Sliver
6 Sun Titan
1 Training Grounds
2 Sylvan Library
3 Detention Sphere
3 Grasp of Fate
5 Maelstrom Nexus
Sorceries (2)
5 Living Death
10 Primal Surge
Artifacts (3)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Heartstone
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
Specialty Lands (1)
0 Sliver Hive
Set up their protection first.
This enchantment will speed up your kills by using your commander’s abilities.
If you have a decent board, he should end the game the turn he lands.
Giving your creatures flash is a HUGE advantage.
This sliver gets nuts if your team has double strike.
This card should typically end the game if it resolves.
Slivers Change Log
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Atogs Decklist
5 Atogatog
Creatures (17)
2 Atog
2 Auratog
2 Chronatog
2 Myr Retriever
3 Athreos, God of Passage
3 Foratog
3 Lithatog
3 Mirror Entity
3 Phantatog
3 Psychatog
3 Sarcatog
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Thaumatog
4 Chameleon Colossus
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
6 Megatog
6 Sun Titan
1 Font of Fertility
1 Rancor
2 Cover of Darkness
2 Font of Fortunes
2 Font of Return
2 Spirit Loop
2 Sterling Grove
3 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Gift of Immortality
3 Karmic Justice
3 Propaganda
4 Aluren
4 Enduring Renewal
5 Conspiracy
5 Enchanted Evening
6 Barren Glory
Sorceries (5)
4 Calming Verse
4 Primeval Light
4 Replenish
5 Creeping Renaissance
6 Plea for Guidance
2 Doubling Cube
2 Ichor Wellspring
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Behemoth Sledge
3 Chronatog Totem
3 Crawlspace
3 Whispersilk Cloak
4 Nevinyrral's Disk
4 Riptide Replicator
5 Cauldron of Souls
Instants (2)
3 Second Sunrise
4 Faith's Reward
Specialty Lands (1)
0 Kessig Wolf Run
This card really helps this deck power out a win!
Double his power, sacrifice to your commander, profit!
Allows you to sacrifice all your permanents!
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5 General Tazri
Creatures (28)
2 Beastcaller Savant
2 Halimar Excavator
2 Harabaz Druid
2 Jwari Shapeshifter
2 Kalastria Healer
2 Zulaport Cutthroat
3 Agadeem Occultist
3 Eternal Scourge
3 Lantern Scout
3 Mirror Entity
3 Veteran Warleader
4 Bala Ged Thief
4 Chasm Guide
4 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Munda, Ambush Leader
4 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Zada, Hedron Grinder
5 Angelic Captain
5 Hagra Diabolist
5 Hero of Goma Fada
5 Kazuul Warlord
5 Sea Gate Loremaster
5 Tajuru Warcaller
5 Turntimber Ranger
6 Deadeye Navigator
6 Murasa Pyromancer
6 Tajuru Beastmaster
4 Rite of Replication
4 Triumph of the Hordes
5 Living Death
5 March from the Tomb
Enchantments (3)
3 Food Chain
4 Flameshadow Conjuring
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
Artifacts (4)
2 Blade of Selves
3 Sunforger
4 Panharmonicon
5 Coat of Arms
Instants (10)
1 Expedite
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Boros Charm
2 Rally the Ancestors
2 Shelter
2 Wear // Tear
3 Cackling Counterpart
3 Teferi's Protection
4 Master Warcraft
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Specialty Lands (1)
0 Ally Encampment
The engine to a mean combo!
Tons of triggers kill opponents!
His ability allows for massive advantage in the late game!
Allies love ETB triggers, and this doubles them!
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6 O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami
Creatures (35)
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Kami of Ancient Law
2 Kami of the Crescent Moon
2 Loam Dweller
2 Rattlechains
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Drogskol Captain
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Nikko-Onna
4 Dungeon Geists
4 Haru-Onna
4 Infernal Kirin
4 Kodama of the South Tree
4 Lifespinner
4 Moonlit Strider
4 Tradewind Rider
4 Windborn Muse
5 Forked-Branch Garami
5 He Who Hungers
5 Nobilis of War
5 Obzedat, Ghost Council
6 Iname, Death Aspect
6 Iname, Life Aspect
6 Kyoki, Sanity's Eclipse
6 Primordial Sage
6 Sire of the Storm
7 Drogskol Reaver
7 Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens
8 Myojin of Night's Reach
8 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
9 Myojin of Life's Web
10 Myojin of Seeing Winds
10 Myojin of Infinite Rage
12 Iname as one
3 Abzan Ascendancy
3 Honden of Infinite Rage
4 Honden of Cleansing Fire
4 Honden of Night's Reach
4 Kindred Boon
5 Honden of Seeing Winds
5 Honden of Life's Web
Sorceries (3)
3 Kodama's Reach
5 Ribbons of the Reikai
6 Kirtar's Wrath
Artifacts (1)
5 That Which Was Taken
Instants (5)
2 Death Denied
2 Soulless Revival
2 Wear Away
3 Rend Flesh
3 Rending Vines
Makes your Myojin really dangerous!
Repeatable Myojin effects will cripple your opponents!
Yup, honden have strength in numbers!
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Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsBGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsHey Rasputin, thanks for the input!
There really are a ton of great cards that could go into the "Core Cards" section. The three you named, for example, would be solid additions. My concern with Call to the Kindred is that it is an easy 2-for-1 for my opponents, and I have to wait until my upkeep to possibly get the payoff. In my typical meta, I could generally assume that the creature that I enchant will not make it around to my next upkeep. Descendant's Path is good, and I like that it is a permanent, but I really did want to make my decks play out different. Same with Coat of Arms - great card, would do really well in most of these decks, but I want variety in the decks. I really should consider adding these cards in at least one of my versions though, thanks for the find!
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsFirst, I really liked Reaper's suggestion to use Isochron Scepter with splice cards. That will allow me to get more mileage out of them. With that in mind, I'm aiming at lower CMC Arcane spells.
I also liked, and can't believe I forgot, Ryperior's suggestion of Long-Forgotten Gohei. When I cracked some MM15, I'm sure I pulled 5 of these, but bulked them out long ago because back then I never expected I'd make a spirits tribal deck - oh how times change!
In terms of the spell suite, I think the following will need testing: Ethereal Haze, Overblaze, Yuki-Onna, Hana Kami, Reach Through Mists. Conveniently, there are five spells that I want to test, and there's 5 hoden enchantments that aren't great but I've kept in the list for only flavor reasons. I'll be testing this 5-card swap.
That thread linked above also brought about the following suggestions, some of which I knew about and others I did not. I think they warrant discussion and I'd love to hear ideas on what to cut for them:
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsExample with double strike —
Another thing you'll have to map out with the Isochron Scepter plan (and in general) is that some spells are useless to splice onto others. You could imprint Ethereal Haze onto the Scepter, but splicing Overblaze onto it when you cast it is just a waste of 2RR. It does become more interesting with a few of the others like Blessed Breath and Veil of Secrecy.
My experience with splice onto arcane was in the context of an 8-card arcane package in Zada, Hedron Grinder. The impression I have — and this might be heavily biased by the aggressive nature of that deck — is that any time you're actually splicing is a proactive effort and that you're usually not holding up that much mana for reactive efforts. So for reactive purposes, you might consider the spell's effect as if the card did not have splice onto arcane.
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Yeah, I agree, I'll have to find the splice cards that I'll want to use with a scepter'ed spell. I think, like you're saying, I'll need a good base spell that can be used at any time to put on the scepter. I think cards like Eye of Nowhere, First Volley, Kodama's Might, Lava Spike, Reach Through Mists, Spiritual Visit, Wear Away, or Otherworldly Journey fit the bill pretty well. That being said, I might just scepter one of the splice cards as a base spell, as cards like Blessed Breath and Veil of Secrecy as decent even without those low CMC scepter-only cards.
I think I'll just end up picking 4-5 Arcane spells that I'd like to put on Isochron Scepter and 3-4 "payoff" cards that are decent when hardcast, or good when spliced. I've got a lot of choices!
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Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsSpirits were predictably slow. I'm considering cutting 1-2 of the higher CMC spirits and replacing them with some of the lower cmc spirits. I was very impressed with soulshift cards like Moonlit Strider which allowed me to cycle spirits like Kami of Ancient Law and my often-killed Rattlechains.
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Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsBURWGSliver Hivelord's alt wincon deck at Maze's EndBURWG
GWBSidar Kondo and Ikra Shidiq likes big butts
RUMizzix of the Izmagnus Super ThiefRU
BURWGGeneral Tazri, The Megazord AllyBURWG
BURJeleva Mill and Kill BUR
BRGrenzo's get out from under that deck!BR
WUG Roon's Enchanted Evening (enchantment deck) WUG
BUG The Undersea World of Tasigur CousteauBUG
BWGAnafenza, Counter QueenBWG
I was not aware of the distinction between Rally triggers and regular ETB effects. The way I read Panharmonicon, it would seem that a Rally trigger still triggers Panharmonicon because a creature (in this case, an ally entering) is causing an ability to trigger (Rally). That being said, Panharmonicon has been performing well, but if I misunderstood the ruling, I might have to consider whether to keep it or not.
I did get in a lot of games over the weekend with the ally deck, and it did VERY well. I won by combat 3 games in a row, and never had to rely on the Food Chain combo. While I like Bring to Light, it is a tutor and is unable to find Food Chain, so at some point, if I want to increase the power level of the ally deck, I might consider swapping Bring to Light for a more traditional tutor.
I also noticed that every game I was tutoring up Sea Gate Loremaster with my first General Tazri trigger, which leads me to think that I should add in a few more pieces of card draw in the deck. I could envision a scenario where, if the Loremaster gets exiled, then I am left without a good way to keep my hand full and the pressure on.
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsold thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
This is not a place to discuss if you agree or disagree with what the RC has done. Rather, I'd like some community help in finding some un-gems that will fit well with this deck. Aside from lands, I have very little experience playing with un-cards, as does the rest of my regular playgroup. While I expect some of them to be resistant to this change, I wanted to compile a list of potentially powerful cards that I could consider adding on a temporary basis.
Things I'd like to look for in suggested cards:
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI did not see any Unhinged cards that were worth playing in these lists.
I did not see any Unglued cards that were worth playing in these lists.
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsWell looking at spirits
How come Yuki-Onna isn't in the deck it's the artifact version of nikko-onna
Also the spirit dragons I don't see either particularly kokusho, the evening star, Yosei, the morning star and keiga, the tide star
Now let's go with suggestions (opinions of coarse)
First i don't see enough recursion (I think)
So either a couple more soulshift spirits
And other recursion for spirit tribal
Simply
Angel of Flight Alabaster or/and Karador, Ghost Chieftain or/and Karmic Guide (yes this edh all star is a spirit)
I notice a aggro path so Skyfire Kirin might come in handy Nebelgast Herald as well
And if your willing to waste a spot Malignus is a spirit
Next is lfegain it's pretty good but the magic life gain is Drogskol Cavalry image this one with Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens I gained so much life with this combo.
And for those brave enough to get it Kira, Great Glass-Spinner is a safety net in case you loose drogskol captain plus it protect slightly better than drogskol captain since it guards itself.
Ofcoarse other spirits that can keep the board under control we have Kataki, War's Wage for artifacts also immensely slows ramp and is Breya, Etherium Shaper decks worst nightmare Ore Gorger for nasty non basic lands like cabal coffers. Kami of False Hope is good against aggro decks and since you can recur it easily you will get Krenko, Mob Boss deck owners furious at you. Next up Sekki, Seasons' Guide this is definitely a brick wall it gets damage just makes the way even bigger with a lot of 1/1 chump blockers
Final of control catergory I mentioned the spirit dragons they are rattlesnakes when they die a extraordinary ability triggers
WYoseiW = stasis a player for a turn
UKeigaU = Control magic but difference is homeward path esc cards is the only way to get it back (and removal)
BKokushoB = Exsanguinate set to 5
RRyuseiR = a weaker Blasphemous Act
GJuganG (not recommended) = blessing of nature but doesn't need miracle and gives one more counter
A goal is casting triggers so we got four kings to keep it going
Besides cloudstone curio we can use the following spirits
First is the onna cycle they have great etc effects and cast a spirit they go back into hand if you want
Next is Spectral shepherd not only he can protect your spirits from removal he can repeat cast trigger
Then we have Glitterfang only cost one for cast trigger and early aggro and is just a pogo stick that goes back to hand.
Finally we have Blinking Spirit it can return to hand for free so repeatable cats trigger
for ramp just one thing petalmane Baku cast the Spirit for more counters then you can tap one mana any time to filter it to the colors you need for mana and it's ramp too because you can remove any amount of colors and get that much mana.
Last but not least hidden gems
Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar - you choose from the top three to draw so you get the best draw each time.
The Unspeakable - want a way to get arcanes back here you go.
Hana Kami - Same as Unpseakable but recursion on a stick is required.
Long-Forgotten Gohei - arcanes becoming cheaper and spirits getting a buff sign me up!
Descendants' Path - look at the part it saids "cast without paying its converted mana cost" you know what that means CAST TRIGGER PALOZA!!!
Sun-birds invocation - this is way way way way...way better than maelstrom nexusit triggers all the time and you get to choose what to cast from the revealed (if the number is high enough) and it also triggers cast trigger spirits. Get it while it's cheap.
Choice of Damnations - say goodnight token focus decks particularly krenko decks
Eerie Procession (only put in if lots of arcanes are in deck) - getting the correct arcane for the board situation sounds about right to me.
Field of Souls - nontoken spirit deaths then all the sudden substitutes jump out how convenient.
Ghostly Prison - hey ghost and spirit are the same meaning of and enchantments are hard to get rid of and make a brick wall for aggro decks.
Genju of the Realm a enchantment that turns a land to a man land sounds nice and it's huge.
Oh one more thing the patron cycle is optional but pretty good depending on the route you choose for spirit tribal
Patron of the Kitsune - can negate 1 power creatures particularly krenkos tokens and this also activates from your creatures attacking.
Patron of the Moon - this is the rarest type of card in existance "blue cards that have huge ramp"
Patron of the Nezumi - meren deck hate is sweet
Patron of the Akki - going the aggro route? This spirit is a must
Patron of the Orochi - well good in snake tribal but not overkill on forest and green creatures in this especial in five color but if Prismatic Omen is in the deck get this in asap
So that's what I got for spirit tribal ideas.
Thanks for all the great feedback! I'm going to be doing some major work on the spirit deck over the holiday season, since I'll have some time off work, so I'll come back with an update. I'm sure it will include some of your suggestions!
Also, Random Card of the Day brought Shinen of Life's Roar to my attention. Seems like it might be helpful in this list to push through damage, and also as a neat combat trick. Easily recurred with soulshift, I think this card is now in consideration.
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsOh I found some more hidden gems for spirits
(The spirit avatar cycle)
https://scryfall.com/search?as=&order=&q=(t:Spirit t:avatar)
They are all spirits and are extraordinary in edh for o-kagachis case the best ones for him are
Spirit of the hearth - you have hexproof sound fancy and it's a spirit
Kagemaro, First to Suffer - the most important aspect of edh is boardsweep and this one can kill indestructible
Arashi, the Sky Asunder/Jiwari, the Earth Aflame - at first I was these aren't good but then...holy cow these are incredible channel is actually can be done at instant speed and these are sweeps green in the air and red on the ground and I forgotten that recursion is really high and even on the feild you can kill creatures 1 at a time easily if you have the mana.
soul seizer - it flips into control magic if it gets threw sounds really handy
Shinen of Life's Roar - I recall you saw this one but anyway you can either use this on your token spirits or spirits that want to be damaged like sekki season's guide and maybe do it on a opponent's creature like gitrog monster then all the sudden you sweeped the board
Xenic Poltergeist - I had no idea this existed it's has Karn, Silver Golem fancy trick
earthshaker hmmm what would happen if we kindred boon counter this dude plus a few of your non flyer spirits?
That being said, Rivals of Ixalan is completely spoiled! I'm excited for it, as it's oozing with tribal goodness and seems like it will be a blast to play in limited. But as for my 5-color tribal lists? Below are a list of cards I think deserve a mention. Let me know if you think I missed anything, or what you're excited to try in your own 5 color tribal list! I'll note that the Ascend mechanic seems good with a lot of my lists, as these decks tend to want a lot of permanents in play.
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsIn the mean time, Dominaria is completely spoiled, and I'm excited for it! Below is a list of cards that I think warrant discussion for inclusion in my lists. Let me know your thoughts.
As a threshold matter, these lists do not have enough historic cards to warrant a discussion on any historic-matters cards. However, if you happen to use a list that is more historic-centric, then by all means, add those historic-matters cards in your list!
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCurrently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsModern Horizons spoilers are in full swing, and today they spoiled a card that should probably go into the core list. I believe until the full spoilers are up, I'm supposed to keep new cards in spoiler tags, so the rest of this conversation is below:
Morophon, the Boundless: Holy cow, what a great card for the core list! This card will be nuts in Atogs, Allies, and Sliver, and decent in Spirits. The cost reduction definitely works wonders for most of them. Spirits, generally, are mono colored with high generic mana costs, so the cost reduction is less amazing there. But he still pumps the tribe, which is great for all tribes, and spirit tokens.
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MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
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Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsMorophon, the boundless
Might be going in all of these