MTG Salvation

My previous build of Edgar was like a bad Marchesa, the Black Rose - I'd put +1/+1 Counters on stuff but when they died they wouldn't come back. I'm trying one of the low mana cost builds but where I try to spam the board with tokens. Now the deck feels like its own thing, a mix of my Marchesa and Trostani, Selesnya's Voice.

Lol how many edh decks do you own Tev? Glad to see my advice on Reconnaissance is spreading... such a busted card (yes, I'm assuming you read my advice and taking credit).

You had much of a chance to play the deck yet? I'm desperately looking for answers for card draw. I run Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Skullclamp, Heirloom Blade, and Heralds Horn and still end up in topdeck mode fast. Just added Greed but haven't playtested with it yet.

Consider Blood Seeker for more cutting action maybe

~Lil Kalki

Quote from Last Laugh »

Lol how many edh decks do you own Tev? Glad to see my advice on Reconnaissance is spreading... such a busted card (yes, I'm assuming you read my advice and taking credit).

You had much of a chance to play the deck yet? I'm desperately looking for answers for card draw. I run Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena, Skullclamp, Heirloom Blade, and Heralds Horn and still end up in topdeck mode fast. Just added Greed but haven't playtested with it yet.

As it is supposed to be a Casual deck, I'm fine with running out of cards. My goal with my Progenitus is to lose to newbies; it has an awful curve, very little synergy and not nearly enough ramp or mana base to support it. Yet last Friday some guy got really salty when I said super Casual and played Progenitus. I think the deck is a dumpster fire but he's not as good as Magic as me (Does make me an ******** for thinking that?), so I decided to make an even worse deck such as this 'death by inches'. I have another really bad deck planned, Saboteur Tribal, just so I don't get bored of being forced to play my worse decks.

This deck makes for 11. I try to play relatively budget; the majority of my expensive cards are from the 20 years I've been playing. Though I still regret selling various cards and I'm left with only single copies of stuff I paid something reasonable. I used to feel like my decks weren't getting enough play but after making a tier list for myself, I don't feel as bad. After all, why whip out my Brago, King Eternal or Zur the Enchanter if my pods still lose to Progenitus? So I have a few competitive decks, I have a bunch of mid tier decks but very little garbage piles I can play against new or inexperienced players.

As you your problem with Card Advantage, the solution is really simple: flip the problem. Force everyone into topdeck mode with massive amounts of Discard. If you barely can gain card advantage, make sure no one can. Rakdos colors have plenty of support with Hellbent and Heckbent, Vampires also have various Madness cards. So while everyone else is hemorrhaging cards, you're still making normal plays because of Madness and you're enjoying all of the benefits with Hell/Heckbent.

I use Reconnaissance in my Daxos the Returned because I already knew it's stupid broken properties. It's just in this I can really abuse it, especially with Captivating Vampire. Now the question is how terrible do I want to make the deck and use a Vigilance giver like Serra's Blessing? I swing with my guys, Captivate an opponent's Creature and then use Reconnaissance to untap them and do it all over again.

Quote from kalkris »

Consider Blood Seeker for more cutting action maybe

~Lil Kalki

Brilliant suggestion!

Okay, so I've made the first real changes into make the deck more into the 'death by a thousand cuts' style. So far I've noticed that the lack of 3 or less drops can be a problem when I'm just dropping utility until I hit 4+ which also means that Edgar's Eminence isn't getting that much value.

First 'real' refinement: I am not a fan of Underworld Connections because unlike the Phyrexian Arena it attempts to be, it is not 'set it and forget it' card advantage engine. The few games I've had with this deck have made me realize all of the little cuts gain me quite a lot of life. Also, my Creatures die. Hell, each Vampire comes in with its own fodder. Makes for Dark Prophecy to be an obvious switch; we'll just have to see if triple black is a problem. As slow as the mana base is, I don't think hitting my colors will be my problem.

Ambition's Cost draws 3 for 4 mana, while Night's Whisper is a third less effective it is half the cost. An easy switch as far as I'm concerned.

Made these changes: Updating the manabase doesn't require an explanation, but I think just two utility lands is enough for this deck. There's plenty of color requirements. Vault of the Archangel makes sense because I want my Vampires, even small ones, to trade out with Deathtouch but I also gain a lot of life. Since I do make a lot of tokens, I also can use Heights without issues.

I don't like the indescriminate destruction of Crackling Doom, so I replaced it with pinpoint precision of Utter End.

I think an Anthem theme is becoming more prevalent in the deck, so I decided to include Stoneforge Masterwork and I don't really have the mana required to truly take advantage of Kindred Boon.

Syphon Mind brings a burst of card advantage, while Herald's Horn is more slow and steady. Cost reduction isn't too bad, as I'm finding the deck wants to play aggressive.

Vein Drinker is very expensive spot removal, I think it might be easier and more fun to grow Falkenrath Exterminator and start shooting opponents' Creatures in the face.

Drana, Liberator of Malakir is part of the anthem theme and she comes at a lower cost than either Bloodsworn Steward who I feel is redudant. Markov already has Haste, why provide it again? Crimson Honor Guard is expensive and doesn't quite fit the 'death by 1000 cuts' subtheme either, so Markov Blademaster replaces it by slowly getting stronger as part of the theme.

I'm think of cutting Defiant Bloodlord, Blood Tribute and Sanguine Bond because it just one shots people or doesn't do that much. As an intentionally Casual deck, I don't think I can justifiably have a one shot combo. I'm seeing a lot of low curve Markovs online and I'm starting to understand why; you want to cast a lot of little Vampires to get more Eminence triggers. I'm not too fond of that route; however, I do see the benefit of lowering my curve further, especially if I had more cutting Creatures.

If you decide to go the vigilance route to abuse reconnaissance and captivating vampire, might I suggest Brave the Sands?

I'd pass on that.

Made the following changes: It wasn't very fun or fair for this casual deck to have a one shot kill in its back pocket. Also, I really want cheap Vampires to trigger Edgar's Eminence, so I added three. The Mirror Entity helps with a pump effect but I'm actually way more pleased with the Kheru Bloodsucker. Edgar, Indulgent Aristrocrat and Drana, Liberator of Malakir make 4 toughness on all of my Creatures very easy. Hell, it's making me think of using more Anthems to really pump everybody up. And if someone Wraths over my careful Aristrocrat feeding, the table's going to feel the pain. Blood Seeker goes in as well because it's cheap and definitely fits in the mold of 'death by a 1000 cuts'.

I saw someone run a Cauldron of Souls to make his vampire nontokens wrathproof because this tribe has so many ways of putting +1/+1 counters on their stuff.

That's ingenious! About 7 of my Creatures would just die again, but that might be worth with all of the death triggers that might occur. Or they might live, considering I currently have two Vampire Lords. The only problem is that I'm trying to cut out the glut. Markov wants lots of early Vampires but I want to play with powerful ones, this means I've too often had too many 5 drops in hand which the Cauldron of Souls happens to be.

It is some definite food for thought; I just got to figure out what the hell to axe.

I did a little bit of bookkeeping and found out that I never got a Dragonskull Summit. Well, time to add that back onto the wants list. Part of my bookkeeping was realizing how much Red I've cut and how much White I added, so I switch a Mountain and Plains in addition to improving the Guildgate.

I cut Skeletal Scrying for Phyrexian Reclamation because I want the recursion and I wasn't willing to Exile cards from my 'yard. I'll pay the life without qualms but I am not going to Exile my Creatures.

Sangromancer doesn't fit the 'death by 1000 cuts' so it got the axe for the Kalastria Highborn.

Day of Judgment is a no BS, no strings Wrath so it easily replaces Fell the Mighty.

Hi Tev
Have you considered tortured existence to complement phyrexian reclamation?
Found it excellent in my Edgar build, mind you my deck has a minor madness theme to support it

I don't want to go with a Madness/Discard theme. I lent the deck out to someone today and they were already confused despite the deck being 'Pings.dec'. Updated my landbase and improved my removal suite by making it pinpoint at Instant Speed.

I never really wanted to cast Damnable Pact, as the times I did it was when my back was up against the wall. I think Painful Truths, which can be cast early, will smooth over my game and therefore mitigate myself getting into situations where I'm backed into a corner. It is a great play to make early/mid game to smooth over my draws. I'm also fine with just casting it for 2 pain.

With Stoneforge, I didn't really want to spend mana playing and Equiping it all the time. I rather have another Vampire. Edgar likes an inexpensive Vampire to get his Eminence trigger and so Viscera Seer is added as a way to smooth over my draws. It's also another way to possibly use Blood Artist effects to kill a player, or just give me an easy use of Skullclamp. I haven't drawn him yet but he's done well in other decks so I'm sure this will do fine.

Door of Destinies is great if played on Curve and is a dead draw late game. Cauldron keeps my board alive and with so many ways of gaining +1/+1 counters, I'll be able to negate the Persists' -1/-1.

As for the lands, Clifftop Retreat is a strict upgrade to Boros Guildgate. I don't need Red that badly so I took Akoum Refuge out for Leechridden Swamp, which is important for its inclusion in my Ping to Death theme but also its Swamp subtype which activates my Check and Taint Lands.

Quote from Tev »

I use Reconnaissance in my Daxos the Returned because I already knew it's stupid broken properties. It's just in this I can really abuse it, especially with Captivating Vampire. Now the question is how terrible do I want to make the deck and use a Vigilance giver like Serra's Blessing? I swing with my guys, Captivate an opponent's Creature and then use Reconnaissance to untap them and do it all over again.

Hello, I've recently purchased this Markov Commander deck, and have been perusing the threads for ideas. I've only recently become aware of Reconnaissance and it's shennanegans, and like it a lot. But here's the question, in your example I quoted above, you're using Reconnaissance to untap creatures that were "tapped" for an effect with Captivating Vampire. These creatures NEVER WERE ATTACKING CREATURES, how can your remove a creature from combat that never was "IN" combat. Am I right, or wrong? I hope you're right, but I think not.

If you notice in my example, I mentioned Serra's Blessing. Its the first card I could think of that is low to the ground and gives Vigilance. The idea would be to declare attacks with Vigilant Creatures, Captivate a target and then at end of Combat Untap them to be able to Captivate a new target later. This does not work without Vigilance.

Then why are you running the card in the deck currently? It seems like a bad card on its own unless you happen to draw stromkirk captain. And even if you do add something like serra's blessing, having a card in your deck that's 100% reliant on drawing another specific card to do anything seems pretty bad

Reconnaissance is ridiculously good, that's why it was just a passing thought to combine it with Serra's Blessing that my inner bad player has at times. "If I combine X and Y, it'll be awesome!" Over time I eliminate anything cute and play with good cards. This is supposed to be relatively Casual deck but I don't think it'll be that good. Perhaps if they printed a Vampire that gave all your Vampires Vigilance but otherwise I'd stay off of it.

Reconnaissance lets you attack with every Creature every combat step. If they end in a bad block, you Untap and Remove them. At end of Combat, after Damage is Done, you Untap and Remove them. It's Super Vigilance. Those who underestimate Reconnaissance haven't played with or against it.

I think you missed the part where it says they neither deal nor receive combat damage o.o you can't attack with them, let them deal damage then untap them

You are mistaken.

Quote from Jiriya »

I think you missed the part where it says they neither deal nor receive combat damage o.o you can't attack with them, let them deal damage then untap them

Actually, you can. The combat phase has five steps - Beginning of Combat, Declare Attackers, Declare Blockers, Combat Damage, and End of Combat. Creatures that attack are considered attacking creatures in all subsequent steps until you pass into the Post-Combat Main Phase. Which means you can attack, deal damage in the Combat Damage Step, and then in the End of Combat Step use Reconnaissance to untap the attacking creatures. The card really is amazing.

I didn't know there was a step after damage was dealt during the combat step where you could activate stuff, thank you!

You wouldn't happen to know where I could find an official ruling showing these steps? It's just I know I'll need it if I try to use this against my friends cause they won't believe me when I tell them i can still do combat damage and use this card lol

Quote from Jiriya »

I didn't know there was a step after damage was dealt during the combat step where you could activate stuff, thank you!

You wouldn't happen to know where I could find an official ruling showing these steps? It's just I know I'll need it if I try to use this against my friends cause they won't believe me when I tell them i can still do combat damage and use this card lol

I suck at finding the actual rule numbers, but I did a Google search and got these:

506.1. The combat phase has five steps, which proceed in order: beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, and end of combat. [...]
511.3. As soon as the end of combat step ends, all creatures and planeswalkers are removed from combat. After the end of combat step ends, the combat phase is over and the postcombat main phase begins (see rule 505).

Creatures are not removed from combat (barring abilities like Reconnaissance) until the end of the end of combat step, therefore they are in combat as an attacking creature until that point, making them a legal target for Reconnaissance.

@Tev - As for the deck this thread is about, I love bleeder decks with a life drain/life gain theme. I really need to get my own copy of Edgar Markov to do a similar build. You already run Impact Tremors - is there a reason you aren't running Purphoros, too? Or is that a deliberate decision to keep it more casual?

Im working on my own version of this deck, its mostly gonna be the same but I wanna add purphoros and a bit more draw power