Fair enough, Zirilan lacks a way to tutor for sneak attack easily though.
Granted, you could just use Zirilan to find zodiac when you happen to draw sneak attack, but then you still need an extra combo piece to really make it worth it. An unkillable 8/8 vigilance-type-thing is decent but it's still chumpable, exilable, etc.
You could of course use hoarding dragon to pull, say, altar (phyrexian or dementia, really) to go off, but at that point you may as well just do the hellkite charger combo.
Basically: I could conceive of dedicating slots to it, but I think you'd be better served building around one of the other, more reliable combos if that's the direction you want to take. I think that leaves it as kind of a niche pick.
Definitely big points for cool, though. Unfortunately ZD is one of the few commander-legal money-cards I don't own. Mostly because it's so incredibly niche in its application (and because it's fairly expensive of course).
I haven't played scourge in recent versions, but skarrgan hellkite looks disappointing to me. It's really weak off zirilan, albeit passable when hardcast. There are so many dragons that do better damage when fetched off zirilan, if I'm never going to fetch it off zirilan I don't see the point of including it.
Mono-red dragons keep being 5 drops these days. Ugh.
Just wanted to note that I am pulling together my own Zirilan build to start playing/testing with friends this weekend, and it's been extremely helpful to read through this whole thread. I'm mostly an Izzet player (I've built every Izzet commander) so I like to stay within those colors to limit the number of expensive cards I'm buying that I can't proxy across decks. I'm also a big fan of tribal/stompy decks that can actually win (Braids, Conjurer Adept's Army of Sea Creatures is one of my fav decks I've built), and this is going to suit me perfectly (as well as my meta).
My one question (and something I'll likely figure out as I go along) is how much interaction with other people's board states I can "afford" to include. My group has definitely evolved quite a bit, we've got some big lands running around (Gaea's Cradle, OG duals, etc.) as well as lots of GY synergy, so I've been running a Crucible of Worlds/Ghost Quarter/Strip Mine/Wasteland/Scavenger Grounds package in a lot of my decks to slow down my opponents.
What's reasonable? I'm looking at Blood Moon as a for-sure include, but it would seem that maybe my goal should just be to focus on casting/keeping Zirilan alive and not do much table management, and just strike when the time is right? I guess a lot of this is meta dependent...
Anyway, also curious if there's been anything of interest in the new Ravnica block I should keep an eye on. i'll be doing some digging myself tonight as I figure out which archetype/gameplan suits me (and my budget) best.
Hey, thanks for giving it a read. Glad people are getting use out of it. Now if only it could get a real primer status...but after the nightmare of getting Phelddagrif tagged I don't really feel like doing it again.
Anyway, I think including strip mine, wasteland, scavenger grounds etc are all great inclusions if they answer common problems in your meta. They're relatively free inclusions, with the only real downside being that it doesn't work with gauntlet of might, and of course you can't go too overboard or you might have color problems, so consider which colorless lands are going to be the most useful carefully.
As far as other silver-bullet hate cards, I vastly prefer artifacts because of hoarding dragon making them much more reliable to get when needed. Blood moon is a great card in some situations, but if it's only 1 enchantment out of 99 in a mono-red deck there's a good chance you won't draw it when you need it, and of course you can draw it when you don't need it. I guess there's always Gamble.
In general I think Zirilan is fairly all-in on synergy because you have to dedicate a lot of slots to making him good - dragons that are otherwise pretty overpriced, and ramp to get him activated early enough to be powerful (plus being mono-red you're somewhat restricted in what sorts of non-synergistic powerful things you can do). That still leaves a decent number of slots, which I usually dedicate to control pieces, so if you want to include blood moon you should be able to find room for it. But I probably would run around 80% zirilan-oriented cards - lands, ramp, dragons, sac outlets (if you aren't running sac outlets then extra dragons so you don't run out), and other synergy. That leaves usually 10-20 cards to do what you want with. Experiment and see what works best for you, whether that's staxy control like blood moon, more reactive control like chaos warp, or just other bomby red stuff that might work as a fallback plan.
That all sounds good. I'm going to try out the 99 I pulled together last night based on your lists, with a blend of perm-ing/sac-ing/control and I'll post how it goes and what I've included.
Hopefully this doesn't inspire me to buy Gauntlet of might...that's got a hefty price tag on it and I've already poured too much money into Blue. lol
Woohoo, first Zirilan-viable dragon since Lathliss (who herself was just ok)! That is a pretty brutal attack trigger. In fairness it might still lose out to balefire dragon, the current best board-wiper dragon...but it can throw its damage around at different targets, or just connect for 11 damage (or 17 if you're hitting everyone at once), and it can blow blockers out of the way, which was balefire's weakness.
Sweet, there are plenty of times where I just want to pick off a commander or three thats good enough for me, I like having less all in options, I can burn this dragon without leaving myself without a wrath just to kill some key targets.
The treasure dragon is also not bad, a dragon that ramps
Hi everyone,
First of all I would like to thank you DirkGently for this beautiful Zirilan guide (but also the Phelddagrif one is amazing).
I love toolbox decks and i find it very fun to play, what's more all the people i played with found the deck interesting as well.
I have been following this guide for some time now and I have almost finished the recursion deck. I need to complete it Mana Vault, Grim Monolith and Ancient Tomb. As for Mana Crypt, Tawnos's Coffin, Cavern of Souls and Gauntlet of Might unfortunately I have to find an alternative because they are quite expensive.
With which cards do you advise me to replace them?
Is Extraplanar Lens a good alternative to the Gauntlet of Might?
And what about Tawnos's Coffin?
Also I was wondering how this deck answers to the artifact board wipe? Can Worldgorger Dragon be a good solution for that?
What is the version of the deck you are playing and what cards are you testing?
Thanks a lot
Hey there, thanks for stopping by! I'm honored you created an account to chat about one of my guides
I'd try to find something with a similar effect - nothing is really as good as mana crypt, but I'd pick the next best mana rock and slot that in. Gauntlet of might can be switched for gauntlet of power - it's a lot worse, though, because it's the same CMC as Zirilan. Lens might work but make sure you have a lot of basic mountains, and probably don't if you're in a meta with a lot of artifact destruction. Cavern of souls is totally optionally, just throw in a mountain. Tawnos' coffin is sort of a gimmick, replace it with whatever you like really. Maybe another sac outlet, or a perm effect like conjurer's closet.
WGD is a great answer to lots of things...if it works. If someone kills it/bounces it/looks at it funny when the ability is on the stack, you are totally screwed (probably...if you can untap zirilan and if you have enough mana you could go grab changeling berserker (if it's still in the deck), exile WGD, then sac berserker (if you have a sac outlet) to return WGD and create the trigger again, without removal on the stack above it...but that's a lot of "if"s). Basically, it's an all-in trick that I probably wouldn't recommend unless it's a dire situation. It's insanely strong vs, say, jokulhaups but it's not worth it to protect your sol ring, is basically what i'm saying. And it's a lot, lot worse if your meta has a lot of instant-speed removal.
I have a version of the recursion deck that I keep around, but truth be told I haven't played it for a while. I have a big collection (just passed 8000 cards) and I build new decks from it constantly, and then disassemble them when I'm bored. So I play a lot of new decks, and don't play my old favorites very often. For the past few years Phelddagrif has been my focus, whenever I do play an established deck, so Zirilan has kind of sat on the shelf mostly. The other problem is that, tbh, WotC hasn't printed an exciting card for Zirilan in a while...Drakuseth is a nice addition but he's not exactly a game-changer or anything, he kinda fits in somewhere next to bogardan hellkite and balefire dragon - bogardan gives us instant-speed damage, balefire gives us a sweeper...drakuseth has a bigger body and doesn't need to connect to deal damage, but like I said he's not really a new effect, just a slightly different delivery. So, no current testing at the moment, sorry =/ but I am testing Phelddagrif stuff (more details are on the primer on the nexus forums: https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=550).
Also right now I'm in Azerbaijan where apparently magic doesn't exist. So for the week I'm just screeching about the 2019 commander release instead of actually playing any magic
I really love your guides, therefore for me was a pleasure to make an account and partecipate.
I think i will replace Mana Crypt with the new incoming card Arcane Signet and Cavern of Souls for a Mountain.
For what concerns Tawnos's Coffin and Gauntlet of Might i have some difficulties choosing an alternative because of the cmc. I don't play tournaments and i don't want to be super-competitive, but i like efficiency and as you say in your guide 5 mana is not an ideal cmc for Zirilan.
For these reasons i think i will replace Tawnos's Coffin with Nim Deathmantle and Gauntlet of Might with Extraplanar Lens (or a safer Dragon's Hoard).
In the case i want to try Extraplanar Lens, what is the minimum number of Mountains?
Another little modification i made is Cranial Archive at the place of Elixir of Immortality because i like its versatility.
I have few off-topic questions:
Why are a lot of user migrating to mtg nexus?
What do you think of the new Commander Atla Palani, Nest Tender?
I think she can play a similar role to zirilan: we trade precision in exchange of a vast selection of creatures that remain on the battlefeld (Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Blightsteel Colossus, ... ). For what concerns precision, green has a lot of instruments to tutor wanted creatures on top of the deck.
With extraplanar lens I'd probably removal almost all the utility lands (leaving high market, miren, Myriad Landscape, Ancient Tomb, and inventor's fair).
nim deathmantle seems like a good choice.
cranial archive seems like a fair swap.
So mtgsalvation WAS going to totally close, so a bunch of people set up nexus as the new mtgsalvation...then mtgsalvation DIDN'T close. So now there's just...2 mtgsalvations, basically. I just check both of them, personally, because I literally cannot spend enough time talking about magic. But it's a weird situation. Nexus is where I'm posting my new decklists, though. The decklists section here is pretty dead.
Atla is not my cup of tea, personally, for a couple reasons.
-I think the limitation of Zirilan is a benefit. Dragons are powerful but a single dragon can't generally end the game. So you have to use synergies and put a couple out at once and use them to control the board while you set up, etc. Just slamming down game-winning bombs was never the point, and it's a lot less fun to me. Plus exiling eot with Zirilan means you need to have a plan to make it worthwhile, you can't just start throwing things out willy-nilly like you can with Atla.
-being random (usually) means you can't use Atla like a toolbox and respond accurately to things. I mean, as long as you're tutoring to put the creature on top, you may as well just tutor to hand and play it. And I can't think of that many topdeck tutors off the top of my head. Maybe...4? And one really sucks?
-needing to die means you need a sac outlet...obviously zirilan often runs sac outlets too, but you don't NEED them necessarily, I've still happily grabbed hellkite tyrant for a big artifact theft even though it meant it would get exiled. Anyway, it just means more moving parts.
-Naya is a lot stronger than mono-red. I think Zirilan is fun because he shores up a lot of mono-red's weaknesses; atla takes an already fine color combination and just adds extra juice where it wasn't necessary. Also I just dislike naya.
I think I’ll try the Extraplanar Lens + Snow-Covered Mountains + Scrying Sheet package.
For what concernes the perming strategy, is Voyager Staff good? He’s cheap, but single use...
Other question, is Liquimetal Coating worth including? He’s cheap, tutorable and with Tyrant we can steal what we want for the rest of the game.
And what about Mirage Mirror? Can we exploit it enough?
I agree with you about Atla: it’s cool, but not funny at all to play a Blightsteel Colossus at turn 4... And what I really love of Zirilan is his precision. I think something similar is possible in Atla with Brutalizer Exarch and some blink effect like Eldrazi Displacer, but it’s very fragile and mana expensive. Maybe one day I’ll give her a try...
I guess I’ll make an account on mtgnexus too!
Will you write this primer on nexus too? I have controversial emotion about that because I really love the deck and I want more people to discover Zirilan, but I’m also a bit jealous
I think honestly, with how strong some of the synergies that can be done with the deck can be, that the perming strategy is generally pretty subpar in general and the deck does better by just going for 1-hit KOs. Unless you're intentionally playing weaker dragons, you're probably only perming like one dragon before you kill everyone. So I guess in that regard, voyager staff does kinda make sense lol. But the perm strategy does make you more vulnerable to getting your threat removed.
Similarly, while liquimetal is a cool idea, I think it's unrealistic to think you'll get enough value out of it to justify using it. If you're swinging with tyrant multiple times, you probably could have won if you swung with something else.
I generally love mirage mirror. Not sure about it in this deck, but tbh it makes a lot of sense. I should probably stick it in
I probably should port this over to nexus at some point. Right now my life is a bit...up in the air though. So maybe when things are a bit less hectic.
Azerbaijan was surprisingly cool. Food wasn't as good as Georgia, but Baku was a really nice city. I could almost see living there if it weren't for the lack of magic.
I just saw it. Definitely looks like a good choice for Zirilan. Only awkward part is that it doesn't help with trample, so tyrant can still go through blockers easier. But this guy + scourge of the throne makes for an easy 40+ damage, and much higher if you've got a way to untap or copy the ability.
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to red is less than five Purphuros isn't a creature
Other creatures you control have haste 2R: You may put a red or artifact creature from your hand onto the battlefield from your hand. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step
5 mana is awkward but more redundancy is always welcome. With this and sneak attack, I think I might need to put Sarkhan's triumph back into my deck.
5 mana is awkward but more redundancy is always welcome. With this and sneak attack, I think I might need to put Sarkhan's triumph back into my deck.
I really like Purphoros. As his own deck. I don't think he really fits here. The curve out is just too awkward with Zirilan, 5 mana is really tough. I don't even really like kiki-jiki anymore tbh.
I've been working on a massive retooling of this deck, really diving in deep. Some of the takeaways so far:
-I think the recursion concept, which was my initial interest in the deck, is dead. As is perming - a few tools are ok, but as a general concept it's not worth the effort. At this point, enough powerful dragons have been printed that redundancy is the way to go. It means you can cut all the useless sac outlets, you don't get as rekt by drawing the wrong dragon, and you don't waste so much time setting up fragile engines. And as a bonus, we have a much stronger backup plan in the form of just playing dragons normally.
-With that, I'm also cutting the theft elements of the deck. They're clunky and don't work without sac outlets. Instead, more ramp to ensure Zirilan hits the board ASAP.
-An interesting/important note for combo: flameshadow conjuring, minion reflector, and kiki-jiki, mirror breaker all go infinite with WGD. Reflector is even tutorable off hoarding dragon via zirilan. On the plus side, for combo, the commander is now a 1-card-combo win. On the downside, for those of us avoiding combo, we have to choose between those cards and WGD.
If there's anyone interested in this list, lmk. I've been posting on nexus, but so far no Zirilan players have popped up over there. Would love to talk in-depth play-pattern analysis.
I use Purphuros, still seems super good for me, I want multiple redundancies. I kind of prefer to play Zirilan when I have 8 mana, not 5. I mean part of me wanting the sneak attack effects if because I don't own a scroll rack.
Deflecting Swat seems like a really good red card in commander particularly when our commanders are so important.
My problem with WGD was if I drew it was terrible and if I use it is dangerous because it can get spot removed, but I had a bunch of sweet plays with it, including blanking Cyclonic Rift and Killing tables with Valaut, the molten pinnacle.
I think I might keep a couple of recursion pieces because they have multiple uses but I definitely consider cutting back on it. In a way having to think carefully about whether to balefire dragon because you only get one shot at it is super interesting as a play concept.
I was talking to someone else about this, but my experience with Zirilan has generally been that he's underestimated and doesn't eat removal if I throw him down on 5. considering he needs haste AND 8 mana, I think that's probably a lot to ask for playing him the first time. I'd rather he eats removal and I try again on 7.
Problem with purphoros imo is that (1) if you're at 5 mana already, sneak attack is a lot less useful (2) if Zirilan is in play, none of the dragons are really so crucial that you need to have a way to cheat them into play to win. There are lots of game-winning combos with different sets of dragons. (3) if Zirilan isn't in play, I'd rather my dragons were persistent threats. Sneak attack itself at least comes down on 4, then Zirilan on 5, then potentially go for a win on 6 or 7. Purphoros doesn't do any of that. It's more like a way to use zirilan to pull dragons from your hand, plus a haste enabler for zirilan, for 5. That seems too steep to me.
Swat is interesting. Potentially viable.
I definitely expect those things from WGD. Part of me hopes it becomes cut-worthy since it'd enable me to play molten echoes, FSC, kiki-jiki, etc. But it seems too insane to not play tbh.
I might - might - play tel-jilad stylus. That will be my only recursion, if I even play it.
I've got a pretty strong updated list in progress I think. I'm done with the dragons portion of the list (the new one will have 21) but I'm still fine-tuning the synergy/wincon elements. Right now the list is:
easy ins: illusionist's bracers - too insane with Zirilan as a primary wincon not to use, and has some synergy with firebreathing and such. Rings of brighthearth - Less good with firebreathing but works with noncreatures, and doesn't need to be moved around. sundial of the infinite - perms dragons for incredibly cheap and can even counter our opponents killing stuff on our turn, which is great. high market/miren, the moaning well: allows zirilan to use hoarding dragon to get one of the synergistic artifacts that probably wins the game. Almost free to include. endless sands - can perm some dragons to go for the kill, or even protect zirilan.
pretty easy ins: thousand-year elixir - wins the game with zirilan, haste is occasionally relevant, and it can untap dragons if you want. Particularly useful with the newly-made-viable kilnmouth dragon. magewright's stone - technically weaker but mostly the same thing for cheaper. mirage mirror - doesn't win immediately with zirilan, but it's good and works incredibly well with utvara hellkite to set up a win. It's also really good without zirilan. mirror of the forebears - technically weaker but mostly the same thing for cheaper. blood mist - can enable a 2-man kill with moltensteel + SotT, and is also good without zirilan. berserker's onslaught is obviously stronger, but 5 cmc and 4 cmc are a world of difference, so I think this is clearly superior.
tutors (almost certainly in): goblin engineer - tutor for rings, most likely. And can use rings to get artifacts back repeatedly. Neat. expedition map - high market, endless sands, and ancient tomb are the primary targets. Exactly the versatility we need. gamble - best red card in the format baby. inventors' fair - pricey ability, but gets rings/bracers/etc, and is almost free to run. With the high mana rock count this should activate easily.
THE TOUGH CALLS: greater gargadon - it's 1 mana, hard/impossible to interact with, and comes down as a big hasty threat that can combine with SotT, moonveil, terror of mount velus etc. If we're going to win we can totally just sac all our lands to get him out. Most importantly, it enables hoarding dragon to find the power artifacts. fling - another enabler for hoarding dragon. Can be awkward to pay for, but doubles as removal. Can also fling moltensteel to kill someone, if life totals stack up right - potentially even on their turn, which would be hilarious. Die necropotence die. puppet strings - how much is too much for an untap? This one does pull minor double duty by tapping down enemies if you can't use it to activate zirilan again. infernal plunge - arguably the best sac outlet, as far as plan A is concerned. You can use this to pay for rings/bracers, and have enough mana to double-activate zirilan and go for the win on the following turn, or a kill this turn. Absolute garbage if Zirilan is offline, though. insult // injury - turns zirilan into killing 2 people with moltensteel + SotT. stops fogs. Is removal. works fine with just normal dragon beatdown. Now that I'm looking at it, this is probably the weakest.
Been playing Zirilan for a about two years. Here are some cards I really like in my build.
Generator Servant
Cast this early, then sac it turn 6 to cast Zirilan. Gives him haste and you have 3 mana left, just enough to activate him. Can also be used late to cast a dragon from hand.
Mask of Memory
Repeatable card draw, especially in a deck full of fliers.
In regards to new cards, could the newly revealed Fire Prophecy be good? Put a dragon that's stuck in your hand on the bottom while also removing something and replacing said dragon
Been playing Zirilan for a about two years. Here are some cards I really like in my build.
Generator Servant
Cast this early, then sac it turn 6 to cast Zirilan. Gives him haste and you have 3 mana left, just enough to activate him. Can also be used late to cast a dragon from hand.
Mask of Memory
Repeatable card draw, especially in a deck full of fliers.
In regards to new cards, could the newly revealed Fire Prophecy be good? Put a dragon that's stuck in your hand on the bottom while also removing something and replacing said dragon
generator servant - problem is that the haste is until eot only. Which means you can't protect him with WGD or berserker, and you can't set up an eot dragon combo. Could be good if you want to use hellkite tyrant right away, or maybe kill someone on low life, but that seems like about it.
mask of memory seems kinda slow for this deck. All of the creatures we might actually use it with are expensive and are good removal targets.
sword of the animist, same kind of deal. I like SotA in a deck with a cheap commander, or a lot of cheap creatures. Here, by the time you trigger it, you've already got quite a bit of mana, and you'd be better off playing something more reliable, like thran dynamo or gauntlet of might.
synod sanctum is a fine card, but endless sands is much better since it's first and foremost a land. Also protects it from a lot of removal that otherwise might kill it, but really the primary reason sand is superior is that it doesn't cost you a card.
Fire prophecy is kind of cute if you're playing a recursion/combo based version that's really afraid of getting stuff stuck in hand. For versions playing more dragons, eh, I wouldn't worry about it. There's only a couple dragons that NEED to get Zirilaned. You can just play them normally.
If anybody has any feedback on the enabler cards from my previous post, I'd love to talk about them.
I love Greater Gargadon, especially with Worldgorger Dragon. Summon out Worldgorger with Zirilan, float all your mana, exile everything, then sac it to Greater Gargadon and get everything back you just exiled. Combine with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle to probably kill someone on the spot.
Not the biggest fan of the other tough calls and most of the other cards mentioned are all obvious includes, but Blood Mist is a card I've never really considered. Gonna be adding that in asap.
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Granted, you could just use Zirilan to find zodiac when you happen to draw sneak attack, but then you still need an extra combo piece to really make it worth it. An unkillable 8/8 vigilance-type-thing is decent but it's still chumpable, exilable, etc.
You could of course use hoarding dragon to pull, say, altar (phyrexian or dementia, really) to go off, but at that point you may as well just do the hellkite charger combo.
Basically: I could conceive of dedicating slots to it, but I think you'd be better served building around one of the other, more reliable combos if that's the direction you want to take. I think that leaves it as kind of a niche pick.
Definitely big points for cool, though. Unfortunately ZD is one of the few commander-legal money-cards I don't own. Mostly because it's so incredibly niche in its application (and because it's fairly expensive of course).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Mono-red dragons keep being 5 drops these days. Ugh.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
My one question (and something I'll likely figure out as I go along) is how much interaction with other people's board states I can "afford" to include. My group has definitely evolved quite a bit, we've got some big lands running around (Gaea's Cradle, OG duals, etc.) as well as lots of GY synergy, so I've been running a Crucible of Worlds/Ghost Quarter/Strip Mine/Wasteland/Scavenger Grounds package in a lot of my decks to slow down my opponents.
What's reasonable? I'm looking at Blood Moon as a for-sure include, but it would seem that maybe my goal should just be to focus on casting/keeping Zirilan alive and not do much table management, and just strike when the time is right? I guess a lot of this is meta dependent...
Anyway, also curious if there's been anything of interest in the new Ravnica block I should keep an eye on. i'll be doing some digging myself tonight as I figure out which archetype/gameplan suits me (and my budget) best.
Anyway, I think including strip mine, wasteland, scavenger grounds etc are all great inclusions if they answer common problems in your meta. They're relatively free inclusions, with the only real downside being that it doesn't work with gauntlet of might, and of course you can't go too overboard or you might have color problems, so consider which colorless lands are going to be the most useful carefully.
As far as other silver-bullet hate cards, I vastly prefer artifacts because of hoarding dragon making them much more reliable to get when needed. Blood moon is a great card in some situations, but if it's only 1 enchantment out of 99 in a mono-red deck there's a good chance you won't draw it when you need it, and of course you can draw it when you don't need it. I guess there's always Gamble.
In general I think Zirilan is fairly all-in on synergy because you have to dedicate a lot of slots to making him good - dragons that are otherwise pretty overpriced, and ramp to get him activated early enough to be powerful (plus being mono-red you're somewhat restricted in what sorts of non-synergistic powerful things you can do). That still leaves a decent number of slots, which I usually dedicate to control pieces, so if you want to include blood moon you should be able to find room for it. But I probably would run around 80% zirilan-oriented cards - lands, ramp, dragons, sac outlets (if you aren't running sac outlets then extra dragons so you don't run out), and other synergy. That leaves usually 10-20 cards to do what you want with. Experiment and see what works best for you, whether that's staxy control like blood moon, more reactive control like chaos warp, or just other bomby red stuff that might work as a fallback plan.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Hopefully this doesn't inspire me to buy Gauntlet of might...that's got a hefty price tag on it and I've already poured too much money into Blue. lol
UPDATES TO COME.
Woohoo, first Zirilan-viable dragon since Lathliss (who herself was just ok)! That is a pretty brutal attack trigger. In fairness it might still lose out to balefire dragon, the current best board-wiper dragon...but it can throw its damage around at different targets, or just connect for 11 damage (or 17 if you're hitting everyone at once), and it can blow blockers out of the way, which was balefire's weakness.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The treasure dragon is also not bad, a dragon that ramps
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
First of all I would like to thank you DirkGently for this beautiful Zirilan guide (but also the Phelddagrif one is amazing).
I love toolbox decks and i find it very fun to play, what's more all the people i played with found the deck interesting as well.
I have been following this guide for some time now and I have almost finished the recursion deck. I need to complete it Mana Vault, Grim Monolith and Ancient Tomb. As for Mana Crypt, Tawnos's Coffin, Cavern of Souls and Gauntlet of Might unfortunately I have to find an alternative because they are quite expensive.
With which cards do you advise me to replace them?
Is Extraplanar Lens a good alternative to the Gauntlet of Might?
And what about Tawnos's Coffin?
Also I was wondering how this deck answers to the artifact board wipe? Can Worldgorger Dragon be a good solution for that?
What is the version of the deck you are playing and what cards are you testing?
Thanks a lot
I'd try to find something with a similar effect - nothing is really as good as mana crypt, but I'd pick the next best mana rock and slot that in. Gauntlet of might can be switched for gauntlet of power - it's a lot worse, though, because it's the same CMC as Zirilan. Lens might work but make sure you have a lot of basic mountains, and probably don't if you're in a meta with a lot of artifact destruction. Cavern of souls is totally optionally, just throw in a mountain. Tawnos' coffin is sort of a gimmick, replace it with whatever you like really. Maybe another sac outlet, or a perm effect like conjurer's closet.
WGD is a great answer to lots of things...if it works. If someone kills it/bounces it/looks at it funny when the ability is on the stack, you are totally screwed (probably...if you can untap zirilan and if you have enough mana you could go grab changeling berserker (if it's still in the deck), exile WGD, then sac berserker (if you have a sac outlet) to return WGD and create the trigger again, without removal on the stack above it...but that's a lot of "if"s). Basically, it's an all-in trick that I probably wouldn't recommend unless it's a dire situation. It's insanely strong vs, say, jokulhaups but it's not worth it to protect your sol ring, is basically what i'm saying. And it's a lot, lot worse if your meta has a lot of instant-speed removal.
I have a version of the recursion deck that I keep around, but truth be told I haven't played it for a while. I have a big collection (just passed 8000 cards) and I build new decks from it constantly, and then disassemble them when I'm bored. So I play a lot of new decks, and don't play my old favorites very often. For the past few years Phelddagrif has been my focus, whenever I do play an established deck, so Zirilan has kind of sat on the shelf mostly. The other problem is that, tbh, WotC hasn't printed an exciting card for Zirilan in a while...Drakuseth is a nice addition but he's not exactly a game-changer or anything, he kinda fits in somewhere next to bogardan hellkite and balefire dragon - bogardan gives us instant-speed damage, balefire gives us a sweeper...drakuseth has a bigger body and doesn't need to connect to deal damage, but like I said he's not really a new effect, just a slightly different delivery. So, no current testing at the moment, sorry =/ but I am testing Phelddagrif stuff (more details are on the primer on the nexus forums: https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=550).
Also right now I'm in Azerbaijan where apparently magic doesn't exist. So for the week I'm just screeching about the 2019 commander release instead of actually playing any magic
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I think i will replace Mana Crypt with the new incoming card Arcane Signet and Cavern of Souls for a Mountain.
For what concerns Tawnos's Coffin and Gauntlet of Might i have some difficulties choosing an alternative because of the cmc. I don't play tournaments and i don't want to be super-competitive, but i like efficiency and as you say in your guide 5 mana is not an ideal cmc for Zirilan.
For these reasons i think i will replace Tawnos's Coffin with Nim Deathmantle and Gauntlet of Might with Extraplanar Lens (or a safer Dragon's Hoard).
In the case i want to try Extraplanar Lens, what is the minimum number of Mountains?
Another little modification i made is Cranial Archive at the place of Elixir of Immortality because i like its versatility.
I have few off-topic questions:
Why are a lot of user migrating to mtg nexus?
What do you think of the new Commander Atla Palani, Nest Tender?
I think she can play a similar role to zirilan: we trade precision in exchange of a vast selection of creatures that remain on the battlefeld (Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Blightsteel Colossus, ... ). For what concerns precision, green has a lot of instruments to tutor wanted creatures on top of the deck.
nim deathmantle seems like a good choice.
cranial archive seems like a fair swap.
So mtgsalvation WAS going to totally close, so a bunch of people set up nexus as the new mtgsalvation...then mtgsalvation DIDN'T close. So now there's just...2 mtgsalvations, basically. I just check both of them, personally, because I literally cannot spend enough time talking about magic. But it's a weird situation. Nexus is where I'm posting my new decklists, though. The decklists section here is pretty dead.
Atla is not my cup of tea, personally, for a couple reasons.
-I think the limitation of Zirilan is a benefit. Dragons are powerful but a single dragon can't generally end the game. So you have to use synergies and put a couple out at once and use them to control the board while you set up, etc. Just slamming down game-winning bombs was never the point, and it's a lot less fun to me. Plus exiling eot with Zirilan means you need to have a plan to make it worthwhile, you can't just start throwing things out willy-nilly like you can with Atla.
-being random (usually) means you can't use Atla like a toolbox and respond accurately to things. I mean, as long as you're tutoring to put the creature on top, you may as well just tutor to hand and play it. And I can't think of that many topdeck tutors off the top of my head. Maybe...4? And one really sucks?
-needing to die means you need a sac outlet...obviously zirilan often runs sac outlets too, but you don't NEED them necessarily, I've still happily grabbed hellkite tyrant for a big artifact theft even though it meant it would get exiled. Anyway, it just means more moving parts.
-Naya is a lot stronger than mono-red. I think Zirilan is fun because he shores up a lot of mono-red's weaknesses; atla takes an already fine color combination and just adds extra juice where it wasn't necessary. Also I just dislike naya.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
For what concernes the perming strategy, is Voyager Staff good? He’s cheap, but single use...
Other question, is Liquimetal Coating worth including? He’s cheap, tutorable and with Tyrant we can steal what we want for the rest of the game.
And what about Mirage Mirror? Can we exploit it enough?
I agree with you about Atla: it’s cool, but not funny at all to play a Blightsteel Colossus at turn 4... And what I really love of Zirilan is his precision. I think something similar is possible in Atla with Brutalizer Exarch and some blink effect like Eldrazi Displacer, but it’s very fragile and mana expensive. Maybe one day I’ll give her a try...
I guess I’ll make an account on mtgnexus too!
Will you write this primer on nexus too? I have controversial emotion about that because I really love the deck and I want more people to discover Zirilan, but I’m also a bit jealous
I hope you’re having good times in azerbaijan!
Similarly, while liquimetal is a cool idea, I think it's unrealistic to think you'll get enough value out of it to justify using it. If you're swinging with tyrant multiple times, you probably could have won if you swung with something else.
I generally love mirage mirror. Not sure about it in this deck, but tbh it makes a lot of sense. I should probably stick it in
I probably should port this over to nexus at some point. Right now my life is a bit...up in the air though. So maybe when things are a bit less hectic.
Azerbaijan was surprisingly cool. Food wasn't as good as Georgia, but Baku was a really nice city. I could almost see living there if it weren't for the lack of magic.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
1 Zirilan of the Claw
Dragons (11)
1 Changeling Berserker
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Dragon Tyrant
1 Worldgorger Dragon
Engine (6)
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Magewright's Stone
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Flameshadow Conjuring
Sac outlets (8)
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Witch's Oven
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Spawning Pit
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Helm of Possession
1 Sundial of the Infinite
Recursion (6)
1 Conjurer's Bauble
1 Cranial Archive
1 Tel-Jilad Stylus
1 Reito Lantern
1 Soldevi Digger
1 Junktroller
Goodstuff (15)
1 Gamble
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Scroll Rack
1 Chaos Warp
1 Mimic Vat
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Reiterate
1 All is Dust
1 Mirage Mirror
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Ugin, the Ineffable
1 Insurrection
1 Null Brooch
1 Apocalypse
Ramp (13)
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mind Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Coalition Relic
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Heraldic Banner
1 Dragon's Hoard
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Expedition Map
1 Ancient Tomb
1 High Market
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Scrying Sheets
31 Snow-covered Mountain
This deck is very similar to your recursion list.
I decided to cut the "Theft" cards (except Insurrection), Tawnos's Coffin (too much $$$), Goblin Welder and Feldon of the Third Path (but i'm not sure about this two exclusions).
I added: Grafted Exoskeleton, Mirage Mirror, Ugin, the Ineffable, Null Brooch, Worldgorger Dragon, Apocalypse and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle.
Grafted Exoskeleton - Is it a good answer to the players with a lot of life or just to end a game more quickly ?
Mirage Mirror - I tried it and it always turns out to be very useful.
Ugin, the Ineffable - I'm very hesitant: he destroy permanents, creates 2/2 we can easily sacrifice to draw the card, and he makes cost less all our spells, but the CC is a bit in contrast with zirilan... Do you think he's good enought?
Null Brooch - It can be really good.
Worldgorger Dragon, Apocalypse and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - I don't play in a meta full of insta-removals, and i like a lot its potential, so i decided to play it and add Valakut and Apocalypse to maximize its power.
These are the other substitution:
Mana Crypt -> Dragon's Hoard
Vessel of Endless Rest -> Heraldic Banner
Gauntlet of Might -> Extraplanar Lens ( + Snow-covered Mountain + Scrying Sheets)
Culling Dais -> Witch's Oven
What do you think about this changes?
And about the last expansions?
Fires of Invention can be a good card...
Terror of Mount Velus
5/5 flying double striker
EtB all creatures get double strike.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Purphuros, Bronze-Blooded 4R
Legendary enchantment creature - god
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to red is less than five Purphuros isn't a creature
Other creatures you control have haste
2R: You may put a red or artifact creature from your hand onto the battlefield from your hand. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step
5 mana is awkward but more redundancy is always welcome. With this and sneak attack, I think I might need to put Sarkhan's triumph back into my deck.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I really like Purphoros. As his own deck. I don't think he really fits here. The curve out is just too awkward with Zirilan, 5 mana is really tough. I don't even really like kiki-jiki anymore tbh.
I've been working on a massive retooling of this deck, really diving in deep. Some of the takeaways so far:
-I think the recursion concept, which was my initial interest in the deck, is dead. As is perming - a few tools are ok, but as a general concept it's not worth the effort. At this point, enough powerful dragons have been printed that redundancy is the way to go. It means you can cut all the useless sac outlets, you don't get as rekt by drawing the wrong dragon, and you don't waste so much time setting up fragile engines. And as a bonus, we have a much stronger backup plan in the form of just playing dragons normally.
-With that, I'm also cutting the theft elements of the deck. They're clunky and don't work without sac outlets. Instead, more ramp to ensure Zirilan hits the board ASAP.
-An interesting/important note for combo: flameshadow conjuring, minion reflector, and kiki-jiki, mirror breaker all go infinite with WGD. Reflector is even tutorable off hoarding dragon via zirilan. On the plus side, for combo, the commander is now a 1-card-combo win. On the downside, for those of us avoiding combo, we have to choose between those cards and WGD.
If there's anyone interested in this list, lmk. I've been posting on nexus, but so far no Zirilan players have popped up over there. Would love to talk in-depth play-pattern analysis.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
As for new spoiler season...Molten Echoes is another Flameshadow conjuring.
Deflecting Swat seems like a really good red card in commander particularly when our commanders are so important.
My problem with WGD was if I drew it was terrible and if I use it is dangerous because it can get spot removed, but I had a bunch of sweet plays with it, including blanking Cyclonic Rift and Killing tables with Valaut, the molten pinnacle.
I think I might keep a couple of recursion pieces because they have multiple uses but I definitely consider cutting back on it. In a way having to think carefully about whether to balefire dragon because you only get one shot at it is super interesting as a play concept.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Problem with purphoros imo is that (1) if you're at 5 mana already, sneak attack is a lot less useful (2) if Zirilan is in play, none of the dragons are really so crucial that you need to have a way to cheat them into play to win. There are lots of game-winning combos with different sets of dragons. (3) if Zirilan isn't in play, I'd rather my dragons were persistent threats. Sneak attack itself at least comes down on 4, then Zirilan on 5, then potentially go for a win on 6 or 7. Purphoros doesn't do any of that. It's more like a way to use zirilan to pull dragons from your hand, plus a haste enabler for zirilan, for 5. That seems too steep to me.
Swat is interesting. Potentially viable.
I definitely expect those things from WGD. Part of me hopes it becomes cut-worthy since it'd enable me to play molten echoes, FSC, kiki-jiki, etc. But it seems too insane to not play tbh.
I might - might - play tel-jilad stylus. That will be my only recursion, if I even play it.
I've got a pretty strong updated list in progress I think. I'm done with the dragons portion of the list (the new one will have 21) but I'm still fine-tuning the synergy/wincon elements. Right now the list is:
easy ins:
illusionist's bracers - too insane with Zirilan as a primary wincon not to use, and has some synergy with firebreathing and such.
Rings of brighthearth - Less good with firebreathing but works with noncreatures, and doesn't need to be moved around.
sundial of the infinite - perms dragons for incredibly cheap and can even counter our opponents killing stuff on our turn, which is great.
high market/miren, the moaning well: allows zirilan to use hoarding dragon to get one of the synergistic artifacts that probably wins the game. Almost free to include.
endless sands - can perm some dragons to go for the kill, or even protect zirilan.
pretty easy ins:
thousand-year elixir - wins the game with zirilan, haste is occasionally relevant, and it can untap dragons if you want. Particularly useful with the newly-made-viable kilnmouth dragon.
magewright's stone - technically weaker but mostly the same thing for cheaper.
mirage mirror - doesn't win immediately with zirilan, but it's good and works incredibly well with utvara hellkite to set up a win. It's also really good without zirilan.
mirror of the forebears - technically weaker but mostly the same thing for cheaper.
blood mist - can enable a 2-man kill with moltensteel + SotT, and is also good without zirilan. berserker's onslaught is obviously stronger, but 5 cmc and 4 cmc are a world of difference, so I think this is clearly superior.
tutors (almost certainly in):
goblin engineer - tutor for rings, most likely. And can use rings to get artifacts back repeatedly. Neat.
expedition map - high market, endless sands, and ancient tomb are the primary targets. Exactly the versatility we need.
gamble - best red card in the format baby.
inventors' fair - pricey ability, but gets rings/bracers/etc, and is almost free to run. With the high mana rock count this should activate easily.
THE TOUGH CALLS:
greater gargadon - it's 1 mana, hard/impossible to interact with, and comes down as a big hasty threat that can combine with SotT, moonveil, terror of mount velus etc. If we're going to win we can totally just sac all our lands to get him out. Most importantly, it enables hoarding dragon to find the power artifacts.
fling - another enabler for hoarding dragon. Can be awkward to pay for, but doubles as removal. Can also fling moltensteel to kill someone, if life totals stack up right - potentially even on their turn, which would be hilarious. Die necropotence die.
puppet strings - how much is too much for an untap? This one does pull minor double duty by tapping down enemies if you can't use it to activate zirilan again.
infernal plunge - arguably the best sac outlet, as far as plan A is concerned. You can use this to pay for rings/bracers, and have enough mana to double-activate zirilan and go for the win on the following turn, or a kill this turn. Absolute garbage if Zirilan is offline, though.
insult // injury - turns zirilan into killing 2 people with moltensteel + SotT. stops fogs. Is removal. works fine with just normal dragon beatdown. Now that I'm looking at it, this is probably the weakest.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Generator Servant
Cast this early, then sac it turn 6 to cast Zirilan. Gives him haste and you have 3 mana left, just enough to activate him. Can also be used late to cast a dragon from hand.
Mask of Memory
Repeatable card draw, especially in a deck full of fliers.
Sword of the Animist
Repeatable ramp. Also synergizes with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Synod Sanctum
Basically a 1 drop version of Endless Sands.
In regards to new cards, could the newly revealed Fire Prophecy be good? Put a dragon that's stuck in your hand on the bottom while also removing something and replacing said dragon
generator servant - problem is that the haste is until eot only. Which means you can't protect him with WGD or berserker, and you can't set up an eot dragon combo. Could be good if you want to use hellkite tyrant right away, or maybe kill someone on low life, but that seems like about it.
mask of memory seems kinda slow for this deck. All of the creatures we might actually use it with are expensive and are good removal targets.
sword of the animist, same kind of deal. I like SotA in a deck with a cheap commander, or a lot of cheap creatures. Here, by the time you trigger it, you've already got quite a bit of mana, and you'd be better off playing something more reliable, like thran dynamo or gauntlet of might.
synod sanctum is a fine card, but endless sands is much better since it's first and foremost a land. Also protects it from a lot of removal that otherwise might kill it, but really the primary reason sand is superior is that it doesn't cost you a card.
Fire prophecy is kind of cute if you're playing a recursion/combo based version that's really afraid of getting stuff stuck in hand. For versions playing more dragons, eh, I wouldn't worry about it. There's only a couple dragons that NEED to get Zirilaned. You can just play them normally.
If anybody has any feedback on the enabler cards from my previous post, I'd love to talk about them.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Not the biggest fan of the other tough calls and most of the other cards mentioned are all obvious includes, but Blood Mist is a card I've never really considered. Gonna be adding that in asap.