Total number of lands. However, mostly it won't ever trigger to find anything. If he can cast multani, then likely there aren't any creatures that he will find.
I agree with multani. That is the sort of synergistic finisher this deck has been needing. How has wave of vitriol been testing?
Thought you might like it! Thoughts on Thespian's Stage? I'm not sure about it, personally. I don't think there's enough reason to run it. Regarding Wave, I'll be honest, I haven't been able to get any game time recently. The longer it sits in the list, though, the happier I am with it. It plays VERY nicely with Multani, so that's a good thing.
How does Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar work with Wild Pair? does it look at the number of lands or 0/0?
I'd assume it depends which side of the deal it's on. If it's being fetched, I'd only be able to grab it by playing a 0/0, which isn't doable, obviously. If I'm fetching with it, I'd assume it's based on number of lands. Which could work in some circumstances, if I can get the timing right, to grab some of the more end game creatures that aren't easily pairable - Terastodon and Emrakul, the Promised End. It's a long shot, but it could happen.
Thespian's stage is a seriously meta dependent card. If you see a lot of urborg, tomb of yawgmoth/cabal coffers/gaea's cradle/flip lands, then might as well ride the wave. If you see a lot of basics and two color duals, or things along those lines, then it probably isn't that great and a forest would do the job better. On a side note, if someone imprison in the moon/song of the dryad on something and you copy that land, your thespian's stage becomes a copy of that card, not the land. If someone uses song of the dryad on a karn, then you thespian's stage it, you get a karn.
Thespian's stage is a seriously meta dependent card. If you see a lot of urborg, tomb of yawgmoth/cabal coffers/gaea's cradle/flip lands, then might as well ride the wave. If you see a lot of basics and two color duals, or things along those lines, then it probably isn't that great and a forest would do the job better. On a side note, if someone imprison in the moon/song of the dryad on something and you copy that land, your thespian's stage becomes a copy of that card, not the land. If someone uses song of the dryad on a karn, then you thespian's stage it, you get a karn.
Sounds like it's not without its uses. I like that interaction with Song of the Dryads, and being as it's in here, it could be a nasty trick I can pull out. Probably needs some playtesting to see if it should stay or not.
This set kinda crept up on us, which is a shame, because there's some crazy good stuff in it. There's not a lot there that I would look at adding there, but there's a couple of considerations:
Grothama, All-Devouring - how cool is this card? It probably does very little for this build, but it's super flavourful.
Bramble Sovereign - This could....do things here. I don't know if it carries enough weight on its own, but it would be a nice addition to the ETB abilities I've got going on here. Panharmonicon + this = 4 ETB abilities and double army. It could be nasty.
Greater Good - This is a reprint I've been waiting for. The only question is how many copies I need. I'd consider it coming into this deck, it promises to be exactly the high quality sac/draw outlet it has the reputation of being.
Seedborn Muse - It could slot in here ok. I probably won't chase down a copy for Nissa, as it really changes the way I'd be playing the deck and the cards I'd want here. It's a consideration, but a distant one.
Doubling Season - I need my kidney more than a copy of this. I'll pass.
It remains to be seen what I pick up from this set, price dependent. This is (mostly) a budget deck, after all, and I won't be cracking packs. So long as the price is right I'll pick up some singles.
I've also tidied up the OP a lot and added a lot of info, simply to have a more complete record of what this build does. Fairly happy with how pretty it is.
Had a fun 5-player at the LGS this weekend. Went up against Najeela, the Blade-blossom, Medomai the Ageless sphinx tribal, Nicol Bolas and Athreos, God of Passage zombie tribal. Najeela posed too much of a threat early and got wiped out by a small army of sphinxes, as did Bolas. I wil paired for a Tornado Elemental, annihilated said sphinxes, and swung in with a Pathbreaker Ibex army sporting a +9/+9 pump. All the while Athreos has been keeping quiet and building a small collection of zombies along with Shepherd of Rot and Vengeful Dead[/c]. He closed out the game shortly afterwards. Lots of fun though, and the deck played beautifully. I had access to the answers needed when I needed them, spent most of the game with a ton of mana and a 10+ card hand and really only ran out of gas at the last mile. I had Emrakul, the Promised End in hand but had tapped out, so the zombie bleed was an inevitable defeat. It's possible I could've squeezed out a win if I'd played Em, but not a guarantee.
The one thing I had in hand that stood out as not having a spot to be played was Realms Uncharted. I'm swapping it out for Greater Good. Should be a solid add.
What do you think of Colossal Majesty? It's pretty much a Phyrexian Arena for you, and that seems like a good thing to have.
It's decent. Generally I like burst draw more but early game it's definitely less useful. I had Elemental Bond in here for a long time, and the only thing that made me remove it was the possibility of decking out. Sure, it's rare but not having a 'may' clause means it could happen. This is kind of fixed, so it could work. The problem I have now is that there's not a lot of fat to trim.
As far as the rest of M19 goes, there's not anything else I'm seriously eyeing up. There's some decent reprints, and I'll be keeping an eye on how low the price for Scapeshift gets, but there's nothing else stupendously good for Nissa.
I'm usually a little hesitant with regards to Core sets. It's nice to see some reprints, but predominantly they come across as entry points for beginner players and standard casuals. 2019 isn't entirely this way, there's a lot of considerations. Not a lot that I'd lock in as a definite add, but lots to look at playtesting. Here's my take on possible additions:
Elvish Rejuvenator - It's a weak pseudo-ramp, and I'm in no rush to add it. I do need to get more in here, but this at the back of the list at present.
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma - It's an awesomely flavourful card, and fantastic to see a legendary bear. It's no shoe in here though. Bonus points for anyone who can make a Yogi bear flavoured list though.
Pelakka Wurm - Last I saw this it was uncommon. Decent card, and if the ETB ability was switched with the dying ability I'd play it.
Runic Armasaur - It's a nice ability on a body with a decent booty. It wouldn't be the worst add, meta dependent of course. If you see Mairsil a lot it's a windmill slam.
Scapeshift - Yeap, want a copy, price dependent. It's such a degenerately powerful ramp and would be a powerful add.
Vivien Reid - Crikey! I love that she's basically MTG: The Crocodile Hunter. All of her abilities are at least reasonably relevant, the strongest here being here -3, and the emblem is obviously super strong. I may keep an eye out for a copy to playtest.
Vivien of the Arkbow - Definitely the weaker iteration of the two, I'm in no rush to scoop this up.
Skalla Wolf - I like that it picks up a green card, not a specific type. The ETB is strong, the creature is vanilla for 3GG. It's a possibility to playtest.
Colorless/Land:
Crucible of Worlds - I don't see that there's enough synergy to make this a definite add, which is good because it definitely isn't at my price point, even after a reprint.
Meteor Golem - Mini-Duplicant. No exile and a 7CMC makes it definitely a weaker effect, but it's a good budget substitute if needed. I'm not in a huge rush to add it, but it could be a possibility.
Skyscanner - It doesn't look like much, but 3 to draw a card and give me flying isn't nothing. I'd consider this a reasonable add.
Update - Primer status achieved - huzzah! It's a lot of work making the thread primer worthy, but I've put a lot into the deck itself, so it's worth it.
Further deck upgrades after play over the weekend:
In: Wayward Swordtooth - Extra land on a decent body for cheap. I like most aspects of this card, and its playtested well so far. Chord of Calling - Brought this back in for further playtesting, and it's been very valuable. Realms Uncharted - Brought back in for further playtesting, and it solves the issues I wanted it to; finding utility lands and providing early ramp.
After these changes, the deck is playing very well. Chord is such a strong add, and Realms has been really nice too. The great thing about Realms is how it throws people off - you can pop something in there to give people the idea you're looking at one strategy and then take a different tack altogether, while still hitting land drops.
Next turn Arcades casts Wave of Reckoning, blasting the board - everyone draws from a Fecundity Ghave has on board. In response I sac all 18 of my basic lands to grant my creatures shroud (knowing it achieves nothing), generating 18 5/3 elementals that also die, netting me 37 additional cards in hand.
Next turn cycle passes, and I drew into Reliquary Tower which I play, then cast Wayward Swordtoth and play Glacial Chasm. I pass turn, wait a turn cycle then play Splendid Reclamation to grab my lands back. No one is able to swing for me so Slimefoot is trying his best to bleed the table dry, but I'm up over 70 life at this point and not worried. Arcades is levelling the enchantments in play with Aura Shards, Ghave is keeping up with Martyr's Bond, but no one has anything do get rid of my chasm, so turn swings around again and I pour 23 mana into Squall Line to blast the table, with 9 cards left in my deck.
A predictable win with chasm in play, but I really enjoyed how stupidly explosive the plays got, and Nissa had the right answers exactly when they were needed.
This deck has become a lot of fun to play now - it takes some thinking through and it's not perfect, but it's got a lot of hustle and is starting to get a lot of positive comments through from my meta. It encourages clever plays, ekes out advantage well, and means you need to think on your feet a lot of the time. But it's so damn much fun. In the above scenario, my last draw was into Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar, so I could've landed that next turn for a stomp. I also had Triumph of the Hordes and Emrakul, the Promised End in hand for value plays, and a Loaming Shaman to keep my library going.
It's just really interesting to note how much this deck can deal with. This was probably a dozen to fifteen turn cycles deep and I still had answers, win conditions and solutions, whereas the rest of the table was running out of gas beating each other up.
With all of the play recently, I'm quite happy with Wayward Swordtooth. I probably won't upgrade to Azusa or Oracles, at least not any time soon. The one thing I'm really after at the moment is something to speed my burst mana up. I'm tossing up getting another copy of Lotus Cobra - pairing it with Boundless Realms or Splendid Reclamation is nuts, and I know it provides incremental value, too - I run a copy in Ghave, and it does a LOT of work. The other option is Amulet of Vigor, but that's a lot less relevant in any other situation. Food for thought, though.
Conversely, Greater Good has been a little redundant. It generally isn't fitting the bill - it either doesn't dig deep enough, or it's removing board presence I want to keep. I'm in no rush to pull it out, but currently Cream of the Crop is doing just as well for me. I'll continue to playtest it and see how things go.
The deck has been chugging along really nicely. Plenty of options, and I'm constantly coming up with new interactions to keep me in the game. I had a hilarious online game a couple of days ago on untap.in. I wasn't playing this deck, I played Bruna. But I went up against a nissa build, which landed an early Panharmonicon. I said to the guy "are you playing Nissa ETB? I run a primer on salvation for that" and the guy cracked up. I found my first follower. We both got smacked by a Vial Smasher/ Kydele combo build, but that's the price of playing online - any player can put together any deck they like and throw grief downwards from on high. Still a hilarious moment.
I've managed to playtest a couple of options I've been tossing up. Wave of Vitriol is nice. Completely saved my ass against a Daretti deck recently. In fact it took him out of the game entirely. I've also tested Lotus Cobra in place of Masked Admirers. It's a strong add. The extra mana early is making a big difference, and means that come mid-game I'm well set up to make some explosive plays. Obviously, it also gets silly with Boundless Realms and such. It didn't take long for that play to happen either. I'll be looking to pick up a physical copy pretty soon.
I haven't yet run across Scapeshift, but I have proxied it in for testing too, as well as Hall of the Bandit Lord. The one time I saw Hall it didn't achieve what I wanted it to, so I may try out Concordant Crossroads as an alternative. It's a risk, but it'll do stupid things more often, especially with Titania, Baloths, War-Pride and Acolyte.
I'm also keeping a close eye on Commander 2018 spoilers. I can't see any definite adds yet, but with a 'lands matter' deck there's bound to be juicy stuff coming through at some point.
Now that the full decklists are spoiled, it's time to take stock and consider possible additions to Nissa's repertoire. As new entities, a couple of the precons I am interested in, but not lots of shoe-ins here for Nissa. Nonetheless, here we go. I won't talk about every card printed, just the ones most likely to be considered here:
New Prints
Crash of Rhino Beetles - Yes, it gets big. Yes, we play lots of lands. It could replace Aetherwind Basker quite easily, although it will never rival the versatility (or likely size) of Multani. I'm in no rush to add this - if I pull Basker, it will likely be for more control instead of more stomp.
Genesis Storm - Typical green 'vomit stuff into play' card. Not really a consideration here, where timing of playing our pieces counts for so much.
Loyal Guardian - Great for my Ghave build, not useful here.
Myth Unbound - There's lots of talk about this one, specifically in terms of how much more degenerate it makes Food Chain. Broken card is broken, that's neither here nor there. Nissa is getting targeted a little, but I run enough ramp that being able to cast her isn't really a problem, and I kind of have better ways to draw, so not really a consideration.
Ravenous Slime - I LOVE this flavour text. Best ever? Surely in the running. This is a cool card, too. I think it probably needs to be in a more attrition style deck, which makes it a possible Ghave consideration, but probably not here.
Turntimber Sower - One of the stronger considerations for the deck, I'm still in no hurry. The costs are just a little too high to make this a shoe in, and it just doesnt do what it does efficiently enough.
Whiptongue Hydra - This is a very strong consideration. It covers a known mono green weakness, gets huge, and has synergy with several key pieces. I'll probably be looking to playtest this, likely in place of aforementioned Basker.
Endless Atlas - Easy draw for this deck, cheap to boot. I could do worse for draw.
Geode Golem - Cool card. Not sure if it's a shoe in here, but I'm considering it for other decks.
Forge of Heroes - The way Nissa enters and transforms makes this pretty conditional. I can make use of it, but there's probably better places for it to go.
Reprints
Avenger of Zendikar - It has obvious synergy, but to be honest, I'd rather not run it because it is such a staple. Why not take the path less taken?
Hydra Omnivore - I've always had fondness for this particular Hydra, and I'd love to bust it wide open as a weird win-con here. It could happen.
Far Wanderings - Probably the most applicable ramp spell reprinted, it curves into Nissa and I can hit threshold easy.
Myr Battlesphere - Wouldn't be the first time I've considered this for this deck. I've got a copy in my folder, it wouldn't be the worse addition.
Command Tower - Pretty sure I don't actually have a copy in here. I should change that.
So, yeah, nothing that's a definite add. I'll pick up some pieces and see whats left over and consider them for fitting here, most likely. The deck works well enough as it is for now, and I've got other considerations on my mind at present. My LGS is holding a copy of Lotus Cobra, Collective Voyage, Concordant Crossroads and Hall of the Bandit Lord for me. Big value coming. I've played a couple of group hug decks recently that ran Collective Voyage recently, and it's a card that really, really let me pull away super early. So it's going to be tested here, as it's been generally better for me than anyone else.
Hi, finally got to look over here, having only been active on aslidiksoraksi's primer.
Our decks look quite different, since your's relay more on creatures then I do. So I won't comment on that but rather the manabase, where I have a couple of suggestions. And sorry in advance, if you already talked about some of the cards - havn't read thoroughly through the thread.
Why no Dryad Arbor? A turn 1 Green Sun's Zenith into the Arbor is a pretty strong play, imo.
There's also Yavimaya Hollow which offers some nice protection for your dudes. Speaking of protection, I kinda like to play High Market so my dudes don't get exiled. And Homeward Path is more for the corner cases, but it's a pretty good feeling when someone bribes you, only for you to totur for the Path to get you're guy into play almost for free.
Hi, finally got to look over here, having only been active on aslidiksoraksi's primer.
Our decks look quite different, since your's relay more on creatures then I do. So I won't comment on that but rather the manabase, where I have a couple of suggestions. And sorry in advance, if you already talked about some of the cards - havn't read thoroughly through the thread.
Why no Dryad Arbor? A turn 1 Green Sun's Zenith into the Arbor is a pretty strong play, imo.
There's also Yavimaya Hollow which offers some nice protection for your dudes. Speaking of protection, I kinda like to play High Market so my dudes don't get exiled. And Homeward Path is more for the corner cases, but it's a pretty good feeling when someone bribes you, only for you to totur for the Path to get you're guy into play almost for free.
These are all pretty good suggestions. Most of the answers come down to finance more than anything. I like Dryad Arbor, Yavimaya Hollow, and Dust Bowl, but at present I don't have the money to make these additions. I'm tossing up adding Hall of the Bandit Lord and/or Concordant Crossroads for more immediate swinging.
The other side is I'm hesitant to add a whole lot of land destruction - I already have some of it with Terastodon, but I don't want to rely on it as a strategy unless I absolutely need to. My meta is a bit variant - some of the decks game pretty hard, but some of them are a little light so I don't want to sour the Nissa experience.
Yeah, magic got really expensive recently. It's crazy! Pretty weird feeling having a couple of decks in your bag, and the value of said bag is now worth a couple of thousand dollars. Though I do own some big stuff, I'd actually wish the cards wasn't worth this much.
I know what you feel about landdestruction. It can be really boring to play against, so it might just kill the entire game. But I do believe Dust Bowl is kinda fair. It only targets nonbasics and has to tap, so it's only land per turn (if you're not living thedream).
Yeah, magic got really expensive recently. It's crazy! Pretty weird feeling having a couple of decks in your bag, and the value of said bag is now worth a couple of thousand dollars. Though I do own some big stuff, I'd actually wish the cards wasn't worth this much.
I know what you feel about landdestruction. It can be really boring to play against, so it might just kill the entire game. But I do believe Dust Bowl is kinda fair. It only targets nonbasics and has to tap, so it's only land per turn (if you're not living thedream).
Yeah, it’s the older, harder to get staples that end up costing you. At present pretty much the lands here is where I’m looking to make improvements. A lot of what’s here is budget utility, so I’d consider some stronger options long term - even if it means chipping away over time. I’m not totally against Dust Bowl either. I have no problem getting rid of an urborg/coffers engine, or a cradle, sanctum or maze if needed.
I’ve already had a couple people get a bit salty over Wave of Vitriol, so I don’t want to get too much rougher. Wave is fair, but it does admittedly totally hose 5c decks.
As far as untapping effects go, I’ve been looking at Stone-seeder hierophant as a possible option to get extra out of my ramp. Have you got any experience running it? I guess it only does one thing, but it does seem to do it well.
As far as untapping effects go, I’ve been looking at Stone-seeder hierophant as a possible option to get extra out of my ramp. Have you got any experience running it? I guess it only does one thing, but it does seem to do it well.
Well, there is this nifty trick to get all your basic lands into play with Thawing Glaciers (another old land which have gotten insanly expensive!), but outside of that I wouldn't run the Hierophant. She just costs too much and Lotus Cobra does the job way better.
As for ramp, over the years I've gotten really fond of the cheaper ones (Nature's Lore, Rampant Growth) over advantage ones (Cultivate/Skyshroud Claim). I also like to play the medallions in my mono color decks. They function almost as a rampspell, but has the benefit to profit each time you cast a spell (well, almost). In my mono green control deck, I run all of these though
As far as untapping effects go, I’ve been looking at Stone-seeder hierophant as a possible option to get extra out of my ramp. Have you got any experience running it? I guess it only does one thing, but it does seem to do it well.
Well, there is this nifty trick to get all your basic lands into play with Thawing Glaciers (another old land which have gotten insanly expensive!), but outside of that I wouldn't run the Hierophant. She just costs too much and Lotus Cobra does the job way better.
As for ramp, over the years I've gotten really fond of the cheaper ones (Nature's Lore, Rampant Growth) over advantage ones (Cultivate/Skyshroud Claim). I also like to play the medallions in my mono color decks. They function almost as a rampspell, but has the benefit to profit each time you cast a spell (well, almost). In my mono green control deck, I run all of these though
Yeah, tell me about it. I'd been looking at Thawing Glaciers anyway, and then decided to look elsewhere once I saw the price. Yeah, the Lotus Cobra does stupendous things. It's really disgusting with any of the big ramp spells I run. I guess I was just looking for a way to double that effect. It's probably pretty win-more to think down that alley, but I can't help it. I guess there's always things like Amulet of Vigor - although that one jumped in price recently, too.
It's funny, I've strayed away from spell ramp in this deck. I haven't really found myself missing them. I really only added Skyshroud Claim as an alternative to another ETB mana dork. If there were another decent cheap option on a creature (I know I'm missing Solemn Simulacrum, but he's more than I want to spend to cast and I'm not likely to use his LTB ability often at all) I'd swap it out in a second. EDIT: Just found out about Yavimaya Dryad and Yavimaya Granger. I should pick one or both of them up.
I know it's not an ETB dork, but Sakura-Tribe Elder is the cheapest you'll get. I guess you're after maxing out on Panharmonicon. If yes, have you considered Strionic Resonator as alternative? Sure it cost 2 to activate, but it also costs 2 less then Panharmonicon.
I had StriRes in the list, and it just didn't see play. Honestly, Pan has been good, but the real MVP is Cloudstone Curio. That thing is stupid good.
I've considered Sakura-Tribe Elder too, but the fact that I can't recur it cheaply is a deterrent. I don't know why I haven't thought of it before, but I'm tossing up Burgeoning. It could get Nissa online stupid quick. That being said it could be a dead drop late in the game.
As far as cuts, I'm thinking Archetype of Endurance could go. I have suitable removal from threats at present, and hexproof does nothing for sweepers, which are most of what I see for removal. Most single creature destruction I can either avoid or won't bat an eyelid over.
As an aside, I had a fun grindy win yesterday. 4 player game against 5c Sliver Queen, Estrid the Masked and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit. Surprisingly, Slivers were first to go, Estrid was land flooded, and Anafenza grew quickly even against targeted removal. It was a decently strong white weenie deck.
I got cloudstone going and spammed Hornet Queen to keep my life total up and protect Nissa, and basically kept momentum until Anafenza was topdecking, digging with Nissa. Brought out a Pathbreaker Ibex, spammed the queen until I had 8 tokens in play, then next turn +1'd with Nissa to draw Emrakul, the Promised End. Dropped her for 10, swung with the goat and Hornet for 140 something damage. It was nice to win with Em without having to Mindslaver. That goat is savage.
The ETB tapped lands were really slowing things down, and I was only ever playing them when I had no other option, which is never a good place to be. The super cheap fetches don't enter tapped, trigger landfall, get a forest at instant speed when I want one and don't slow me down. They've been really good thus far, simply because they're simple and uncomplicated. Blasted Landscape is much the same, it's the only cycling land that doesn't enter tapped, so it's the best of both worlds.
I've been straying away from Wild Pair recently and haven't missed altogether, so Zendikar Resurgent is taking a spin in its seat. I haven't drawn it yet to try it, but we will see. Burgeoning is a decent way to get land drops early to flip Nissa, or to trigger landfall later on. I've always liked what Song of the Dryads does, so a second (albeit slightly weaker) version is worth a spot.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Thought you might like it! Thoughts on Thespian's Stage? I'm not sure about it, personally. I don't think there's enough reason to run it. Regarding Wave, I'll be honest, I haven't been able to get any game time recently. The longer it sits in the list, though, the happier I am with it. It plays VERY nicely with Multani, so that's a good thing.
I'd assume it depends which side of the deal it's on. If it's being fetched, I'd only be able to grab it by playing a 0/0, which isn't doable, obviously. If I'm fetching with it, I'd assume it's based on number of lands. Which could work in some circumstances, if I can get the timing right, to grab some of the more end game creatures that aren't easily pairable - Terastodon and Emrakul, the Promised End. It's a long shot, but it could happen.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Sounds like it's not without its uses. I like that interaction with Song of the Dryads, and being as it's in here, it could be a nasty trick I can pull out. Probably needs some playtesting to see if it should stay or not.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Absolutely! This deck wouldn't exist without corner case tech. I haven't seen Wild Pair used anywhere else since making this deck.
This set kinda crept up on us, which is a shame, because there's some crazy good stuff in it. There's not a lot there that I would look at adding there, but there's a couple of considerations:
Grothama, All-Devouring - how cool is this card? It probably does very little for this build, but it's super flavourful.
Bramble Sovereign - This could....do things here. I don't know if it carries enough weight on its own, but it would be a nice addition to the ETB abilities I've got going on here. Panharmonicon + this = 4 ETB abilities and double army. It could be nasty.
Greater Good - This is a reprint I've been waiting for. The only question is how many copies I need. I'd consider it coming into this deck, it promises to be exactly the high quality sac/draw outlet it has the reputation of being.
Seedborn Muse - It could slot in here ok. I probably won't chase down a copy for Nissa, as it really changes the way I'd be playing the deck and the cards I'd want here. It's a consideration, but a distant one.
Doubling Season - I need my kidney more than a copy of this. I'll pass.
It remains to be seen what I pick up from this set, price dependent. This is (mostly) a budget deck, after all, and I won't be cracking packs. So long as the price is right I'll pick up some singles.
I've also tidied up the OP a lot and added a lot of info, simply to have a more complete record of what this build does. Fairly happy with how pretty it is.
The one thing I had in hand that stood out as not having a spot to be played was Realms Uncharted. I'm swapping it out for Greater Good. Should be a solid add.
It's decent. Generally I like burst draw more but early game it's definitely less useful. I had Elemental Bond in here for a long time, and the only thing that made me remove it was the possibility of decking out. Sure, it's rare but not having a 'may' clause means it could happen. This is kind of fixed, so it could work. The problem I have now is that there's not a lot of fat to trim.
As far as the rest of M19 goes, there's not anything else I'm seriously eyeing up. There's some decent reprints, and I'll be keeping an eye on how low the price for Scapeshift gets, but there's nothing else stupendously good for Nissa.
Meteor Golem is a cool effect, but 7 is expensive.
Skyscanner I'd consider. Elvish Visionary with flying could be valuable.
I'm usually a little hesitant with regards to Core sets. It's nice to see some reprints, but predominantly they come across as entry points for beginner players and standard casuals. 2019 isn't entirely this way, there's a lot of considerations. Not a lot that I'd lock in as a definite add, but lots to look at playtesting. Here's my take on possible additions:
Green:
- Colossal Majesty - As shermanido mentioned, this could be a decent add. It's essentially Phyrexian Arena with no downside.
- Elvish Rejuvenator - It's a weak pseudo-ramp, and I'm in no rush to add it. I do need to get more in here, but this at the back of the list at present.
- Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma - It's an awesomely flavourful card, and fantastic to see a legendary bear. It's no shoe in here though. Bonus points for anyone who can make a Yogi bear flavoured list though.
- Pelakka Wurm - Last I saw this it was uncommon. Decent card, and if the ETB ability was switched with the dying ability I'd play it.
- Rhox Oracle - Draw on a creature is nice, but 4G is lots to pay. I'll stick with Elvish Visionary.
- Runic Armasaur - It's a nice ability on a body with a decent booty. It wouldn't be the worst add, meta dependent of course. If you see Mairsil a lot it's a windmill slam.
- Scapeshift - Yeap, want a copy, price dependent. It's such a degenerately powerful ramp and would be a powerful add.
- Vivien Reid - Crikey! I love that she's basically MTG: The Crocodile Hunter. All of her abilities are at least reasonably relevant, the strongest here being here -3, and the emblem is obviously super strong. I may keep an eye out for a copy to playtest.
- Vivien's Invocation - It doesn't dig as deeply as Wild Pair or Woodland Bellower, although the direct damage is nice.
- Vivien of the Arkbow - Definitely the weaker iteration of the two, I'm in no rush to scoop this up.
- Skalla Wolf - I like that it picks up a green card, not a specific type. The ETB is strong, the creature is vanilla for 3GG. It's a possibility to playtest.
Colorless/Land:
- Crucible of Worlds - I don't see that there's enough synergy to make this a definite add, which is good because it definitely isn't at my price point, even after a reprint.
- Meteor Golem - Mini-Duplicant. No exile and a 7CMC makes it definitely a weaker effect, but it's a good budget substitute if needed. I'm not in a huge rush to add it, but it could be a possibility.
- Skyscanner - It doesn't look like much, but 3 to draw a card and give me flying isn't nothing. I'd consider this a reasonable add.
- Detection Tower - Arcane Lighthouse 2.0, for the right cost it could make a decent utility add.
I wont be attending prerelease due to RL demands, but I'm quite interested to keep my eyes peeled and ears open for playtesting assessments.
Further deck upgrades after play over the weekend:
In:
Wayward Swordtooth - Extra land on a decent body for cheap. I like most aspects of this card, and its playtested well so far.
Chord of Calling - Brought this back in for further playtesting, and it's been very valuable.
Realms Uncharted - Brought back in for further playtesting, and it solves the issues I wanted it to; finding utility lands and providing early ramp.
Out:
Invasive Species - I find it sitting in hand a lot, so it's an easy choice to remove.
Masked Admirers - It's a bit too mana intensive at present.
Tamiyo's Journal - It's slow, and sort of outclassed by the additions of Chord of Calling and Realms Uncharted.
After these changes, the deck is playing very well. Chord is such a strong add, and Realms has been really nice too. The great thing about Realms is how it throws people off - you can pop something in there to give people the idea you're looking at one strategy and then take a different tack altogether, while still hitting land drops.
Had a stupendously well-earned victory that got really silly today.
Opponents: Slimefoot, the Stowaway saproling tribal, Arcades, the Strategist wall tribal, Ghave, Guru of Spores infini-counters combo (every Ghave is though, tbh).
Me: Nissa, Vastwood Seer
I landed a T1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and a slightly later Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun, flip into Nissa, Sage Animist and start dropping lands, with little else to do except stopping Arcades from walling in entirely and Ghave from going off. I also had Abundance in play to smooth draws.
I draw into Rampaging Baloths, cast Boundless Realms for x=12, netting me a sizable beast army, and cast Shamanic Revelation for 17 cards and 60 life. With 5 floating from Itlimoc, I cast Titania, Protector of Argoth.
Next turn Arcades casts Wave of Reckoning, blasting the board - everyone draws from a Fecundity Ghave has on board. In response I sac all 18 of my basic lands to grant my creatures shroud (knowing it achieves nothing), generating 18 5/3 elementals that also die, netting me 37 additional cards in hand.
Next turn cycle passes, and I drew into Reliquary Tower which I play, then cast Wayward Swordtoth and play Glacial Chasm. I pass turn, wait a turn cycle then play Splendid Reclamation to grab my lands back. No one is able to swing for me so Slimefoot is trying his best to bleed the table dry, but I'm up over 70 life at this point and not worried. Arcades is levelling the enchantments in play with Aura Shards, Ghave is keeping up with Martyr's Bond, but no one has anything do get rid of my chasm, so turn swings around again and I pour 23 mana into Squall Line to blast the table, with 9 cards left in my deck.
A predictable win with chasm in play, but I really enjoyed how stupidly explosive the plays got, and Nissa had the right answers exactly when they were needed.
This deck has become a lot of fun to play now - it takes some thinking through and it's not perfect, but it's got a lot of hustle and is starting to get a lot of positive comments through from my meta. It encourages clever plays, ekes out advantage well, and means you need to think on your feet a lot of the time. But it's so damn much fun. In the above scenario, my last draw was into Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar, so I could've landed that next turn for a stomp. I also had Triumph of the Hordes and Emrakul, the Promised End in hand for value plays, and a Loaming Shaman to keep my library going.
It's just really interesting to note how much this deck can deal with. This was probably a dozen to fifteen turn cycles deep and I still had answers, win conditions and solutions, whereas the rest of the table was running out of gas beating each other up.
With all of the play recently, I'm quite happy with Wayward Swordtooth. I probably won't upgrade to Azusa or Oracles, at least not any time soon. The one thing I'm really after at the moment is something to speed my burst mana up. I'm tossing up getting another copy of Lotus Cobra - pairing it with Boundless Realms or Splendid Reclamation is nuts, and I know it provides incremental value, too - I run a copy in Ghave, and it does a LOT of work. The other option is Amulet of Vigor, but that's a lot less relevant in any other situation. Food for thought, though.
Conversely, Greater Good has been a little redundant. It generally isn't fitting the bill - it either doesn't dig deep enough, or it's removing board presence I want to keep. I'm in no rush to pull it out, but currently Cream of the Crop is doing just as well for me. I'll continue to playtest it and see how things go.
The deck has been chugging along really nicely. Plenty of options, and I'm constantly coming up with new interactions to keep me in the game. I had a hilarious online game a couple of days ago on untap.in. I wasn't playing this deck, I played Bruna. But I went up against a nissa build, which landed an early Panharmonicon. I said to the guy "are you playing Nissa ETB? I run a primer on salvation for that" and the guy cracked up. I found my first follower. We both got smacked by a Vial Smasher/ Kydele combo build, but that's the price of playing online - any player can put together any deck they like and throw grief downwards from on high. Still a hilarious moment.
I've managed to playtest a couple of options I've been tossing up. Wave of Vitriol is nice. Completely saved my ass against a Daretti deck recently. In fact it took him out of the game entirely. I've also tested Lotus Cobra in place of Masked Admirers. It's a strong add. The extra mana early is making a big difference, and means that come mid-game I'm well set up to make some explosive plays. Obviously, it also gets silly with Boundless Realms and such. It didn't take long for that play to happen either. I'll be looking to pick up a physical copy pretty soon.
I haven't yet run across Scapeshift, but I have proxied it in for testing too, as well as Hall of the Bandit Lord. The one time I saw Hall it didn't achieve what I wanted it to, so I may try out Concordant Crossroads as an alternative. It's a risk, but it'll do stupid things more often, especially with Titania, Baloths, War-Pride and Acolyte.
I'm also keeping a close eye on Commander 2018 spoilers. I can't see any definite adds yet, but with a 'lands matter' deck there's bound to be juicy stuff coming through at some point.
Commander 2018 Review
Now that the full decklists are spoiled, it's time to take stock and consider possible additions to Nissa's repertoire. As new entities, a couple of the precons I am interested in, but not lots of shoe-ins here for Nissa. Nonetheless, here we go. I won't talk about every card printed, just the ones most likely to be considered here:
New Prints
- Crash of Rhino Beetles - Yes, it gets big. Yes, we play lots of lands. It could replace Aetherwind Basker quite easily, although it will never rival the versatility (or likely size) of Multani. I'm in no rush to add this - if I pull Basker, it will likely be for more control instead of more stomp.
- Genesis Storm - Typical green 'vomit stuff into play' card. Not really a consideration here, where timing of playing our pieces counts for so much.
- Loyal Guardian - Great for my Ghave build, not useful here.
- Myth Unbound - There's lots of talk about this one, specifically in terms of how much more degenerate it makes Food Chain. Broken card is broken, that's neither here nor there. Nissa is getting targeted a little, but I run enough ramp that being able to cast her isn't really a problem, and I kind of have better ways to draw, so not really a consideration.
- Ravenous Slime - I LOVE this flavour text. Best ever? Surely in the running. This is a cool card, too. I think it probably needs to be in a more attrition style deck, which makes it a possible Ghave consideration, but probably not here.
- Turntimber Sower - One of the stronger considerations for the deck, I'm still in no hurry. The costs are just a little too high to make this a shoe in, and it just doesnt do what it does efficiently enough.
- Whiptongue Hydra - This is a very strong consideration. It covers a known mono green weakness, gets huge, and has synergy with several key pieces. I'll probably be looking to playtest this, likely in place of aforementioned Basker.
- Endless Atlas - Easy draw for this deck, cheap to boot. I could do worse for draw.
- Geode Golem - Cool card. Not sure if it's a shoe in here, but I'm considering it for other decks.
- Forge of Heroes - The way Nissa enters and transforms makes this pretty conditional. I can make use of it, but there's probably better places for it to go.
Reprints
- Avenger of Zendikar - It has obvious synergy, but to be honest, I'd rather not run it because it is such a staple. Why not take the path less taken?
- Hydra Omnivore - I've always had fondness for this particular Hydra, and I'd love to bust it wide open as a weird win-con here. It could happen.
- Far Wanderings - Probably the most applicable ramp spell reprinted, it curves into Nissa and I can hit threshold easy.
- Hunting Wilds - Expensive, and not for this deck.
- Myr Battlesphere - Wouldn't be the first time I've considered this for this deck. I've got a copy in my folder, it wouldn't be the worse addition.
- Command Tower - Pretty sure I don't actually have a copy in here. I should change that.
So, yeah, nothing that's a definite add. I'll pick up some pieces and see whats left over and consider them for fitting here, most likely. The deck works well enough as it is for now, and I've got other considerations on my mind at present. My LGS is holding a copy of Lotus Cobra, Collective Voyage, Concordant Crossroads and Hall of the Bandit Lord for me. Big value coming. I've played a couple of group hug decks recently that ran Collective Voyage recently, and it's a card that really, really let me pull away super early. So it's going to be tested here, as it's been generally better for me than anyone else.
In:
Collective Voyage
Lotus Cobra
Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Skyshroud Claim
Mirrorpool
Out:
Steel Hellkite
Aetherwind Basker
Strionic Resonator
Greater Good
Haunted Fengraf
Leaning out the curve, Basker was underperforming and outclassed by Multani. Hellkite was outclassed by Constant Mists and Glacial Chasm. I found myself resenting the discard of Greater Good, and Mirrorpool is much better utility than Haunted Fengraf. I've been playtesting Collective Voyage and Lotus Cobra, and they are both disgustingly good ramp.
Our decks look quite different, since your's relay more on creatures then I do. So I won't comment on that but rather the manabase, where I have a couple of suggestions. And sorry in advance, if you already talked about some of the cards - havn't read thoroughly through the thread.
Why no Dryad Arbor? A turn 1 Green Sun's Zenith into the Arbor is a pretty strong play, imo.
There's also Yavimaya Hollow which offers some nice protection for your dudes. Speaking of protection, I kinda like to play High Market so my dudes don't get exiled. And Homeward Path is more for the corner cases, but it's a pretty good feeling when someone bribes you, only for you to totur for the Path to get you're guy into play almost for free.
Dust Bowl > Ghost Quarter. You do run Drownyard Temple. It might be too mean, but I've won a couple of games using those two lands.
Thoughts?
Hi Roger,
These are all pretty good suggestions. Most of the answers come down to finance more than anything. I like Dryad Arbor, Yavimaya Hollow, and Dust Bowl, but at present I don't have the money to make these additions. I'm tossing up adding Hall of the Bandit Lord and/or Concordant Crossroads for more immediate swinging.
The other side is I'm hesitant to add a whole lot of land destruction - I already have some of it with Terastodon, but I don't want to rely on it as a strategy unless I absolutely need to. My meta is a bit variant - some of the decks game pretty hard, but some of them are a little light so I don't want to sour the Nissa experience.
I know what you feel about landdestruction. It can be really boring to play against, so it might just kill the entire game. But I do believe Dust Bowl is kinda fair. It only targets nonbasics and has to tap, so it's only land per turn (if you're not living the dream).
Yeah, it’s the older, harder to get staples that end up costing you. At present pretty much the lands here is where I’m looking to make improvements. A lot of what’s here is budget utility, so I’d consider some stronger options long term - even if it means chipping away over time. I’m not totally against Dust Bowl either. I have no problem getting rid of an urborg/coffers engine, or a cradle, sanctum or maze if needed.
I’ve already had a couple people get a bit salty over Wave of Vitriol, so I don’t want to get too much rougher. Wave is fair, but it does admittedly totally hose 5c decks.
As far as untapping effects go, I’ve been looking at Stone-seeder hierophant as a possible option to get extra out of my ramp. Have you got any experience running it? I guess it only does one thing, but it does seem to do it well.
Well, there is this nifty trick to get all your basic lands into play with Thawing Glaciers (another old land which have gotten insanly expensive!), but outside of that I wouldn't run the Hierophant. She just costs too much and Lotus Cobra does the job way better.
As for ramp, over the years I've gotten really fond of the cheaper ones (Nature's Lore, Rampant Growth) over advantage ones (Cultivate/Skyshroud Claim). I also like to play the medallions in my mono color decks. They function almost as a rampspell, but has the benefit to profit each time you cast a spell (well, almost). In my mono green control deck, I run all of these though
Yeah, tell me about it. I'd been looking at Thawing Glaciers anyway, and then decided to look elsewhere once I saw the price. Yeah, the Lotus Cobra does stupendous things. It's really disgusting with any of the big ramp spells I run. I guess I was just looking for a way to double that effect. It's probably pretty win-more to think down that alley, but I can't help it. I guess there's always things like Amulet of Vigor - although that one jumped in price recently, too.
It's funny, I've strayed away from spell ramp in this deck. I haven't really found myself missing them. I really only added Skyshroud Claim as an alternative to another ETB mana dork. If there were another decent cheap option on a creature (I know I'm missing Solemn Simulacrum, but he's more than I want to spend to cast and I'm not likely to use his LTB ability often at all) I'd swap it out in a second. EDIT: Just found out about Yavimaya Dryad and Yavimaya Granger. I should pick one or both of them up.
I've considered Sakura-Tribe Elder too, but the fact that I can't recur it cheaply is a deterrent. I don't know why I haven't thought of it before, but I'm tossing up Burgeoning. It could get Nissa online stupid quick. That being said it could be a dead drop late in the game.
As far as cuts, I'm thinking Archetype of Endurance could go. I have suitable removal from threats at present, and hexproof does nothing for sweepers, which are most of what I see for removal. Most single creature destruction I can either avoid or won't bat an eyelid over.
As an aside, I had a fun grindy win yesterday. 4 player game against 5c Sliver Queen, Estrid the Masked and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit. Surprisingly, Slivers were first to go, Estrid was land flooded, and Anafenza grew quickly even against targeted removal. It was a decently strong white weenie deck.
I got cloudstone going and spammed Hornet Queen to keep my life total up and protect Nissa, and basically kept momentum until Anafenza was topdecking, digging with Nissa. Brought out a Pathbreaker Ibex, spammed the queen until I had 8 tokens in play, then next turn +1'd with Nissa to draw Emrakul, the Promised End. Dropped her for 10, swung with the goat and Hornet for 140 something damage. It was nice to win with Em without having to Mindslaver. That goat is savage.
In:
Evolving Wilds
Terramorphic Expanse
Warped Landscape
Blasted Landscape
Lignify
Burgeoning
Zendikar Resurgent
Swiftfoot Boots
Out:
Havenwood Battleground
Treetop Village
Myriad Landscape
Jungle Basin
Skyshroud Claim
Harrow
Wild Pair
The ETB tapped lands were really slowing things down, and I was only ever playing them when I had no other option, which is never a good place to be. The super cheap fetches don't enter tapped, trigger landfall, get a forest at instant speed when I want one and don't slow me down. They've been really good thus far, simply because they're simple and uncomplicated. Blasted Landscape is much the same, it's the only cycling land that doesn't enter tapped, so it's the best of both worlds.
I've been straying away from Wild Pair recently and haven't missed altogether, so Zendikar Resurgent is taking a spin in its seat. I haven't drawn it yet to try it, but we will see. Burgeoning is a decent way to get land drops early to flip Nissa, or to trigger landfall later on. I've always liked what Song of the Dryads does, so a second (albeit slightly weaker) version is worth a spot.