Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant had always piqued my interest, but something was always holding me back from building the deck. Among those reasons is that the deckbuilding process presents lots of questions that have no easy answer.
What should the deck be doing prior to flipping Sasaya?
What should you do if the opponent is just sitting on a Disenchant?
How do you even begin to figure out the best land/nonland ratio?
I never felt like I had anything to add to the "stock" Sasaya decklists (if such things actually exist), but I finally just built something as a starting point and started tinkering with it.
What I found to be of great help was trimming the land count from 60-something to just 45-ish, and filling those extra slots with creatures that find lands, like Sylvan Ranger: this gives you a way to spend your early mana, lets you represent early chump blockers to divert the voltron players, and gives you extra bodies to throw around once you resolve Ursapine later.
Straight-up ramp spells fill the other extra slots, especially ones that put lands into play untapped. Once Sasaya is flipped, every Nature's Lore you cast is like a big Dark Ritual. Plus, ramp spells get cards out of your hand so your Yavimaya Elder effects don't force you to discard.
Speaking of which, card draw effects you can use at instant speed (like Mind Stone, Wild-field Scarecrow, Realms Uncharted) are at a premium. The typical plan is to sculpt your hand EOT, untap, cast Sasaya, and flip it right away. Instant-speed effects temporarily circumvent the 7-card maximum hand size, so you can meet Sasaya's requirements and still have things to do with the mana. They also save mana on your own turn, so you can try to generate a decisive advantage immediately after casting Sasaya. This is why I have given them preference to cards like Gaea's Bounty and Seek the Horizon.
The biggest tradeoff for taking the "normal land count" approach is that you can't just topdeck lands as reliably as before. It also makes your Scrying Sheets and Abundance a bit worse. However, it also makes cards like Genesis/Temur Sabretooth/Sensei's Divining Top a bit better, and it means that in Sasaya's absence you can maybe play Magic like a normal deck instead of doing the draw-go mana flood thing.
The actual endgame is usually Ursapine, Aetherflux Reservoir, or whatever Grinning Totem happens to dig up. Last time, Grinning Totem got me an opponent's Aetherflux Reservoir.
--
Any feedback or suggestions are welcome. Let me know what you think!
I dunno if it's your style but various x spells seem really good with sasaya. Hurricane, for example, will just win if you have the most life (or if you play glacial chasm). There's also the various hydras and even stuff like Stream of Life if you're feeling janky. tho tbh you've probably heard all that before
overall it looks like a pretty sweet list, i think it's a good call with the instant-speed land grabbers. how consistently are you able to flip Sasaya?
the only thing i'd add would be more pay-off cards so that you can win fast after getting to mega mana land. that's what I was thinking with hurricane. sprout swarm is also another option, since you can use it to make a ton of saprolings at instant speed and surprise kill someone (there's gotta be an +x/+x to all creatures spell?). it also goes great with aetherflux resevoir
After giving your list a look I have to confess that I really like the way in which you approach reaching your seven land in hand quota. The interaction between effects that put lands into your graveyard like Harrow and Crop Rotation combined with the recursive cards like Nostalgic Dreams is something I think I appreciate. There are quite a number of cards like Sprouting Vines and Wildest Dreams that feel like they have a home here whereas most other decks would prefer different cards.
Some thoughts:
Have you considered playing the admittedly goodstuffy Oracle of Mul Daya and Courser of Kruphix? They allow you to play land cards from the top of your library, so you can continue to make land drops each turn without decreasing the number of lands you hold in hand for Sasaya.
I'm not a fan of most of the cards in your tech category. If this were my deck, I would consider new ways to spend your vast trove of mana once you've acquired it. There are a lot of interesting ways to spend a million mana.
Also, sweet gif.
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I dunno if it's your style but various x spells seem really good with sasaya. Hurricane, for example, will just win if you have the most life (or if you play glacial chasm). There's also the various hydras and even stuff like Stream of Life if you're feeling janky. tho tbh you've probably heard all that before
overall it looks like a pretty sweet list, i think it's a good call with the instant-speed land grabbers. how consistently are you able to flip Sasaya?
the only thing i'd add would be more pay-off cards so that you can win fast after getting to mega mana land. that's what I was thinking with hurricane. sprout swarm is also another option, since you can use it to make a ton of saprolings at instant speed and surprise kill someone (there's gotta be an +x/+x to all creatures spell?). it also goes great with aetherflux resevoir
Well let me first say that I am a fan of your mono-green control deck, along with the Hurricane/Squall Line endgame. I am not playing those here for two reasons: I am not confident I can always get Glacial Chasm into play on the big turn, and more importantly, my mono-red Squee deck already uses X-spells with Glacial Chasm as the main wincon.
Sasaya flips by about turn 6, I guess? It's not blazing fast, but it's consistent enough. Sometimes it comes earlier, and sometimes it gets hated out with discard spells or whatever, but at least it doesn't "lose to itself" very often!
I cut Sprout Swarm in a previous revision of the deck, but I had never considered the interaction Aetherflux Reservoir! I'll probably bring that back in, thanks!
After giving your list a look I have to confess that I really like the way in which you approach reaching your seven land in hand quota. The interaction between effects that put lands into your graveyard like Harrow and Crop Rotation combined with the recursive cards like Nostalgic Dreams is something I think I appreciate. There are quite a number of cards like Sprouting Vines and Wildest Dreams that feel like they have a home here whereas most other decks would prefer different cards.
Some thoughts:
Have you considered playing the admittedly goodstuffy Oracle of Mul Daya and Courser of Kruphix? They allow you to play land cards from the top of your library, so you can continue to make land drops each turn without decreasing the number of lands you hold in hand for Sasaya.
I'm not a fan of most of the cards in your tech category. If this were my deck, I would consider new ways to spend your vast trove of mana once you've acquired it. There are a lot of interesting ways to spend a million mana.
Also, sweet gif.
Thanks for the feedback!
Courser of Kurphix and Oracle of Mul Daya may not help as much as it might seem at first glance. I may not need to spend cards in my hand, but if I am using Courser or Oracle to hit my land drops, then the only way I would ever draw land would be if there are multiples in a row -- in other words, I would also draw many fewer lands than I would otherwise. Oracle might be good enough anyway thanks to the post-flip land ramp aspect, but Courser is pretty much a no-go.
I played Creeping Renaissance and didn't like it -- I found that once I have the mana to cast it, I am banking pretty heavily on instants and sorceries. Groundskeeper might be good enough, though. I'll give it a try in place of Gatecreeper Vine and see how it goes!
I suppose the lack of mana sinks is just deckbuilding preference. Knowledge Pool used to be my primary game plan, if you'd believe it! I would also play more offbeat stuff like Gelatinous Genesis and Jade Mage in addition to Wolfbriar Elemental, but I found that they were kind of redundant. I choose to run tutors instead... I would rather have several solid options from which I can choose, than a few more options overall but with less choice -- right now I've got:
Aetherflux Reservoir -- simple direct damage that feeds off otherwise useless land grabbers, plus lifegain on the side Ursapine -- any unblocked dork from anyone is lethal. Great political tool! Grinning Totem -- Fills in any gaps, hopefully, and straight-up decking people out is possible with E-Wit recursion. Wolfbriar Elemental -- token beatdown as a backup idea. I might supplement it with Sprout Swarm like aslidsiksoraksi suggested. Temur Sabertooth/Eternal Witness/Beast Within/Masticore -- Trying to avoid MLD if possible, but this is still on the cards if I am really scraping for outs
If you have any recommendations or preferred wincons, I am definitely open to ideas! The deck is still very much in flux.
I also run a sasaya deck, though mine is more big mana control into an obnoxious 18 card infinite turn combo. Of course, when I'm tapping a land for 20 mana, doesn't really matter how much the combo costs to get off.
I see you already run abundance, same as I do. It is arguably the strongest card in the deck. Once I start doing things, it is almost guaranteed that I am going to do something obnoxious very quickly. Recycle is an option, though a dangerous one. I don't drop it until I am ready to go off. Two colorless options that make the deck absolutely absurd and do beautiful things with sylvan library (you'll get all 3 cards every turn since abundance is a draw replacement), but memory jar and teferi's puzzle box are absurdly good in this deck. Much of the time, you don't mind putting your hand on the bottom and drawing a fresh handful. With an abundance active, you'll basically be tutoring the next few cards. Memory jar+abundance is instant general backflip.
The single most broken card in my deck is the great aurora, however. I tend to draw 20 to 40 cards with it with a few hundred mana floating. Since it allows you to put a bunch of lands back into play and mostly shuts off your opponents lock pieces, it's pretty good.
I also run a sasaya deck, though mine is more big mana control into an obnoxious 18 card infinite turn combo. Of course, when I'm tapping a land for 20 mana, doesn't really matter how much the combo costs to get off.
I see you already run abundance, same as I do. It is arguably the strongest card in the deck. Once I start doing things, it is almost guaranteed that I am going to do something obnoxious very quickly. Recycle is an option, though a dangerous one. I don't drop it until I am ready to go off. Two colorless options that make the deck absolutely absurd and do beautiful things with sylvan library (you'll get all 3 cards every turn since abundance is a draw replacement), but memory jar and teferi's puzzle box are absurdly good in this deck. Much of the time, you don't mind putting your hand on the bottom and drawing a fresh handful. With an abundance active, you'll basically be tutoring the next few cards. Memory jar+abundance is instant general backflip.
The single most broken card in my deck is the great aurora, however. I tend to draw 20 to 40 cards with it with a few hundred mana floating. Since it allows you to put a bunch of lands back into play and mostly shuts off your opponents lock pieces, it's pretty good.
I am not sure I agree on Teferi's Puzzle Box, though -- this deck has so much hand sculpting, it feels like Puzzle box might be backwards progress. I also hate that I need to pass the turn in order for it to do anything, since I typically aim to flip Sasaya and do stuff all in one big turn.
Funny story with Abundance: Playing a game a few weeks ago, I had nearly cut Abundance from the deck, but decided to give it a few more chances to prove its worth. I was at ~80 life with Aetherflux Reservoir, and domed one of my opponents for 50 before passing the turn. The turn cycle had gone halfway around the table when someone mentioned something about Mindcrank, and to my horror I was like, "Holy crap, was I supposed to mill 50 cards for activating Reservoir?!" So with no deck and no reshuffle effects available, I was ready to concede... until I noticed Abundance was in play, and I could replace all of my draws. YES!
I would love for The Great Aurora to be in here, but I cannot seem to make it worthwhile. Can you post your decklist so I can get some ideas?
What woud you think of adding flash-granters, so you could flash in something eot before your big turn? Another option for a gameender would be Kamalh, Fist of Krosa which also doesn't need an unblocked creature to win. I see Urzaspine is more political and less manaintensive (of sorts) though.
How good have Life from the Loam been? You don't have much that put lands into your grave. Maybe you could add the ramplands and even Sylvan Safekeeper which could also protect your creature-wincons. Groundskeeper would also get better this way. There's also Constant Mists. And speaking of protection Heroic Intervention might be something.
Long time no update! Here is what has changed over the last year and a half. I'll admit that some of the cuts look questionable.
-Mirari: Too slow.
-Reclamation Sage: Acidic Slime is better at defense, and lets me blow up everyone's lands with Temur Sabertooth in a pinch.
-Citanul Flute: Too expensive, typically prefer any old creature tutor.
-Wolfbriar Elemental: The token strategy almost never works. In fact, it occasionally backfires in my playgroup thanks to Repercussion or Rakdos Charm or whatever. Ursapine is better.
-Genesis: Seems wrong, but never really did that much in practice.
-Snow-Covered Forest: for another sweet land
+Endless Atlas: Instant-speed, repeatable draw that seems to fit right in this deck.
+Runic Armasaur: I have high hopes for this guy. Also considering Heartwood Storyteller?
+Root Out: Increasing the artifact hate as a meta call. This replaces itself like the other ones.
+Acidic Slime: Slightly more competitive endgame option over Reclamation Sage.
+Primal Command: Directly replacing Citanul Flute. Doubles as graveyard hate or artifact removal.
+Desert of the Indomitable: Heeyyyyyy
Ursapine has proven to be reliable. It and Grinning Totem are probably my favorite things about this deck. Thanks for reading!
Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant had always piqued my interest, but something was always holding me back from building the deck. Among those reasons is that the deckbuilding process presents lots of questions that have no easy answer.
What should the deck be doing prior to flipping Sasaya?
What should you do if the opponent is just sitting on a Disenchant?
How do you even begin to figure out the best land/nonland ratio?
I never felt like I had anything to add to the "stock" Sasaya decklists (if such things actually exist), but I finally just built something as a starting point and started tinkering with it.
1 Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant
Creatures (18)
1 Gatecreeper Vine
1 Hermit Druid
1 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Wild-Field Scarecrow
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Magus of the Library
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Runic Armasaur
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Masticore
1 Ursapine
Lands to Hand (9)
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Life from the Loam
1 Mulch
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Journey of Discovery
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Sprouting Vines
1 Abundance
1 Crop Rotation
1 Nature's Lore
1 Mind Stone
1 Harrow
1 Skyshroud Claim
Recursion (6)
1 Regrowth
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Seeds of Renewal
1 Wildest Dreams
1 Seasons Past
1 Praetor's Counsel
Tech (16)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Endless Atlas
1 Beast Within
1 Rending Vines
1 Root Out
1 Slice in Twain
1 Primal Command
1 Sylvan Library
1 Harmonize
1 Genesis Wave
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Grinning Totem
1 Book of Rass
1 Ring of Three Wishes
1 Planar Portal
1 Planar Bridge
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Slippery Karst
1 Blasted Landscape
1 Desert of the Indomitable
1 Ash Barrens
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
38 Snow-Covered Forest
What I found to be of great help was trimming the land count from 60-something to just 45-ish, and filling those extra slots with creatures that find lands, like Sylvan Ranger: this gives you a way to spend your early mana, lets you represent early chump blockers to divert the voltron players, and gives you extra bodies to throw around once you resolve Ursapine later.
Straight-up ramp spells fill the other extra slots, especially ones that put lands into play untapped. Once Sasaya is flipped, every Nature's Lore you cast is like a big Dark Ritual. Plus, ramp spells get cards out of your hand so your Yavimaya Elder effects don't force you to discard.
Speaking of which, card draw effects you can use at instant speed (like Mind Stone, Wild-field Scarecrow, Realms Uncharted) are at a premium. The typical plan is to sculpt your hand EOT, untap, cast Sasaya, and flip it right away. Instant-speed effects temporarily circumvent the 7-card maximum hand size, so you can meet Sasaya's requirements and still have things to do with the mana. They also save mana on your own turn, so you can try to generate a decisive advantage immediately after casting Sasaya. This is why I have given them preference to cards like Gaea's Bounty and Seek the Horizon.
The biggest tradeoff for taking the "normal land count" approach is that you can't just topdeck lands as reliably as before. It also makes your Scrying Sheets and Abundance a bit worse. However, it also makes cards like Genesis/Temur Sabretooth/Sensei's Divining Top a bit better, and it means that in Sasaya's absence you can maybe play Magic like a normal deck instead of doing the draw-go mana flood thing.
The actual endgame is usually Ursapine, Aetherflux Reservoir, or whatever Grinning Totem happens to dig up. Last time, Grinning Totem got me an opponent's Aetherflux Reservoir.
--
Any feedback or suggestions are welcome. Let me know what you think!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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overall it looks like a pretty sweet list, i think it's a good call with the instant-speed land grabbers. how consistently are you able to flip Sasaya?
the only thing i'd add would be more pay-off cards so that you can win fast after getting to mega mana land. that's what I was thinking with hurricane. sprout swarm is also another option, since you can use it to make a ton of saprolings at instant speed and surprise kill someone (there's gotta be an +x/+x to all creatures spell?). it also goes great with aetherflux resevoir
book of rass is slick tech. try also tower of fortunes for big mana draw
anyway just some thoughts, digging the deck!
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Some thoughts:
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Sasaya flips by about turn 6, I guess? It's not blazing fast, but it's consistent enough. Sometimes it comes earlier, and sometimes it gets hated out with discard spells or whatever, but at least it doesn't "lose to itself" very often!
I cut Sprout Swarm in a previous revision of the deck, but I had never considered the interaction Aetherflux Reservoir! I'll probably bring that back in, thanks!
Tower of Fortunes might make an appearance in place of Mirari, soon. I guess this could also be a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth (with an Eye of Ugin in the deck), but Tower is way cooler.
Thanks for the feedback!
Courser of Kurphix and Oracle of Mul Daya may not help as much as it might seem at first glance. I may not need to spend cards in my hand, but if I am using Courser or Oracle to hit my land drops, then the only way I would ever draw land would be if there are multiples in a row -- in other words, I would also draw many fewer lands than I would otherwise. Oracle might be good enough anyway thanks to the post-flip land ramp aspect, but Courser is pretty much a no-go.
I played Creeping Renaissance and didn't like it -- I found that once I have the mana to cast it, I am banking pretty heavily on instants and sorceries. Groundskeeper might be good enough, though. I'll give it a try in place of Gatecreeper Vine and see how it goes!
I suppose the lack of mana sinks is just deckbuilding preference. Knowledge Pool used to be my primary game plan, if you'd believe it! I would also play more offbeat stuff like Gelatinous Genesis and Jade Mage in addition to Wolfbriar Elemental, but I found that they were kind of redundant. I choose to run tutors instead... I would rather have several solid options from which I can choose, than a few more options overall but with less choice -- right now I've got:
Aetherflux Reservoir -- simple direct damage that feeds off otherwise useless land grabbers, plus lifegain on the side
Ursapine -- any unblocked dork from anyone is lethal. Great political tool!
Grinning Totem -- Fills in any gaps, hopefully, and straight-up decking people out is possible with E-Wit recursion.
Wolfbriar Elemental -- token beatdown as a backup idea. I might supplement it with Sprout Swarm like aslidsiksoraksi suggested.
Temur Sabertooth/Eternal Witness/Beast Within/Masticore -- Trying to avoid MLD if possible, but this is still on the cards if I am really scraping for outs
If you have any recommendations or preferred wincons, I am definitely open to ideas! The deck is still very much in flux.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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I see you already run abundance, same as I do. It is arguably the strongest card in the deck. Once I start doing things, it is almost guaranteed that I am going to do something obnoxious very quickly. Recycle is an option, though a dangerous one. I don't drop it until I am ready to go off. Two colorless options that make the deck absolutely absurd and do beautiful things with sylvan library (you'll get all 3 cards every turn since abundance is a draw replacement), but memory jar and teferi's puzzle box are absurdly good in this deck. Much of the time, you don't mind putting your hand on the bottom and drawing a fresh handful. With an abundance active, you'll basically be tutoring the next few cards. Memory jar+abundance is instant general backflip.
The single most broken card in my deck is the great aurora, however. I tend to draw 20 to 40 cards with it with a few hundred mana floating. Since it allows you to put a bunch of lands back into play and mostly shuts off your opponents lock pieces, it's pretty good.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I am not sure I agree on Teferi's Puzzle Box, though -- this deck has so much hand sculpting, it feels like Puzzle box might be backwards progress. I also hate that I need to pass the turn in order for it to do anything, since I typically aim to flip Sasaya and do stuff all in one big turn.
Funny story with Abundance: Playing a game a few weeks ago, I had nearly cut Abundance from the deck, but decided to give it a few more chances to prove its worth. I was at ~80 life with Aetherflux Reservoir, and domed one of my opponents for 50 before passing the turn. The turn cycle had gone halfway around the table when someone mentioned something about Mindcrank, and to my horror I was like, "Holy crap, was I supposed to mill 50 cards for activating Reservoir?!" So with no deck and no reshuffle effects available, I was ready to concede... until I noticed Abundance was in play, and I could replace all of my draws. YES!
I would love for The Great Aurora to be in here, but I cannot seem to make it worthwhile. Can you post your decklist so I can get some ideas?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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What woud you think of adding flash-granters, so you could flash in something eot before your big turn? Another option for a gameender would be Kamalh, Fist of Krosa which also doesn't need an unblocked creature to win. I see Urzaspine is more political and less manaintensive (of sorts) though.
How good have Life from the Loam been? You don't have much that put lands into your grave. Maybe you could add the ramplands and even Sylvan Safekeeper which could also protect your creature-wincons. Groundskeeper would also get better this way. There's also Constant Mists. And speaking of protection Heroic Intervention might be something.
As always, I really dig your janky builds
-Mirari: Too slow.
-Reclamation Sage: Acidic Slime is better at defense, and lets me blow up everyone's lands with Temur Sabertooth in a pinch.
-Citanul Flute: Too expensive, typically prefer any old creature tutor.
-Wolfbriar Elemental: The token strategy almost never works. In fact, it occasionally backfires in my playgroup thanks to Repercussion or Rakdos Charm or whatever. Ursapine is better.
-Genesis: Seems wrong, but never really did that much in practice.
-Snow-Covered Forest: for another sweet land
+Endless Atlas: Instant-speed, repeatable draw that seems to fit right in this deck.
+Runic Armasaur: I have high hopes for this guy. Also considering Heartwood Storyteller?
+Root Out: Increasing the artifact hate as a meta call. This replaces itself like the other ones.
+Acidic Slime: Slightly more competitive endgame option over Reclamation Sage.
+Primal Command: Directly replacing Citanul Flute. Doubles as graveyard hate or artifact removal.
+Desert of the Indomitable: Heeyyyyyy
Ursapine has proven to be reliable. It and Grinning Totem are probably my favorite things about this deck. Thanks for reading!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com