Hi! I'm new on the forum and I needed some help for a budget Momir Vig List I wanted to build. I really love the competitive one, but at a first sight it's simply too strong for my playgroup.
Note: We decided to start playing commander like two weeks ago, so I don't know yet which commanders my friends have chosen. Hence, I'd like to tweak my list to face a generic meta, then I'll adjust it when I'll know my friends' lists.
Going more into detail:
I'm not really sure about the PW. I have a feeling I could replace one of them (Kiora) or even both with something more useful.
I don't know which enchantments are the strongest for this deck (given it even needs enchantments at all). In particular, I think I could cut Hadana's Climb and Zendikar Resurgent, but I don't really know what could I use to replace them.
Of course remind that my list is not meant to be tournament competitive
I think your casual list is pretty decent! I would say just a few things:
1. I encourge Ezuri, Claw of Progress in this deck. I think you have the potential to turn your small dudes and your +1/+1 counter theme into a real beatdown deck as a secondary wincon. Plus, you can also play Craterhoof Behemoth to that end.
2. I think you have a lot of potential with Intruder Alarm and all your mana dorks. Especially with Cloudstone Curio, you could potentially go infinite in that way too! Also works great with Craterhoof.
3. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is not a card to be underestimated. He provides protection on your turn to combo off, and he lets you abuse Seedborn Muse (since my best friend Prophet is banned... may she rest in peace).
4. You could definitely cut both walkers for more creatures, like some of those I listed above.
5. I'm not a fan of Hadana's Climb, but if you can get one, I'd recommend Sylvan Library! I also think Zendikar Resurgent is kind of "win-more" and doesn't really have a place in the deck.
6. I think you can test with Treespeaker to see if it works for you! If it doesn't, then cut it!
7. I personally don't like that Weaver of Currents only taps for CC, and that your deck has lots of color requirements, but if you like it, then go ahead and play it!
Hope this helps, please let me know if you have any other questions!
Good morning everyone! The M19 full image gallery is now up, and this means that we can get down to evaluating potential additions to this deck! Let's start with the one that has generated the most interest in the CEDH scene:
This looks like a powerful card advantage in most metas. Fetchlands abound everywhere, and utility lands are semi-common as well. Most notably, drawing cards when creatures activate their abilities is quite powerful in its own right. This is a MAY ability, so it can be used to not deck yourself! And finally, being a 2/5 makes it a very efficient blocker for just 1GG, and this deck loves efficient blockers.
I think this card will definitely find its way into the deck, though it will require some difficult cuts!
Next, we have Mirror Image! At first blush, this seems like a strictly worse Clone, and many people have derided it as such. But our Phantasmal Image already only has one purpose: to copy Palinchron. So we're only copying our own creatures. There is however, one critical reason for why this card is better than any other clone printed, except for Phantasmal Image.
ALUREN. This is the second-ever clone printed that gets in with Aluren. This is very important, as it makes going infinite much easier as a result. With Palinchron and Aluren on the field, both this and Phantasmal Image can go infinite with just 5 lands on the field; 3 if Training Grounds is out! This provides a second effect of a clone card, which makes the deck overall more resilient.
While I am not sure that a second clone effect is 100% necessary at this time, I will be testing with this for sure, and will try to see if there are any valid cuts that can be made.
This card initially appears to be pretty decent, as it takes any kind of land and puts it directly onto the battlefield tapped. However, on the whole this is a weaker form of ramp than most other elves and ramp, especially at CMC 3. While I had initially looked at the card, I am not convinced that it is good enough to see play.
Last but not least, our new green planeswalker, Viven! She takes a similar role to Nissa, Vital Force, which used to feature in the deck. While I do believe that Viven is too slow for the deck (just like Nissa, which is why she was eventually cut). I think she is still quite the powerful walker! If you are looking to play a more casual game with Vig, I would give Vivien serious consideration!
That's all I have for today, thank you for stopping by! Please comment if you have any questions.
TL;DR - Bramble Sovereign enables infinites more efficiently, and has earned a permanent spot in the deck.
In recent days I had been growing somewhat doubtful of the presence of Bramble Sovereign in my deck. While I had initially spoken glowingly about the card, I had begun to develop reservations about its ability to perform in the deck. The opportunities to effectively copy my creatures were uncommon at best, and the card was entirely worthless when playing with legendary creatures. Sometimes a copy was a "nice to have" card, but not necessary, such as Seedborn Muse or Sylvan Safekeeper. On top of all this, it doesn't make infinite mana with Cloud of Faeries without another card to bounce the Faeries! I had been considering cutting the card for something that performs better.
That is, until today's testing.
There were two specific moments where my testing with this card proved to be extremely beneficial, and situations where I would not have won if it had not been for this card.
While this combination of cards does not make infinite mana, it does create infinite 1/1 copies of Cloud of Faeries. This enables you to swing for lethal against your opponents (assuming your board survives a turn).
Example Boardstate: Bramble Sovereign, Cloudstone Curio (CC), untapped basic Island, and untapped basic Forest.
Hand: Cloud of Faeries (CoF)
You cast Cloud of Faeries, tapping the Island and Forest.
CoF enters the battlefield (ETBs), and you have 3 triggers to resolve: CoF's untap ability, Bramble Sovereign's triggered ability, and Cloudstone Curio's triggered ability.
Let the Cloudstone Curio's ability fizzle (since it is a MAY ability).
Resolve the CoF untap ability: Untap Island and Forest.
Resolve the Sovereign's ability next: Pay the 1G using the Island and Forest you just untapped.
Sovereign's ability resolves, and you make a 1/1 token of CoF. You get two triggers: Untap trigger, and CC.
Untap resolves: Untap Island and Forest
CC resolves: From the token ETBing, bounce the original CoF to your hand.
Your boardstate should now look exactly as it did before you began the loop (Sovereign, Curio, 2 untapped lands) except that you now have an additional 1/1 token.
Proceed to repeat this until you have enough tokens to kill everyone on your next turn.
Next, I came to the realization that Bramble Sovereign enables a Palinchron infinite mana engine without needing a minimum four U sources or Vizier of the Menagerie to filer colors. Normally, in order to cast Palinchron and bounce it back to the hand, you need UU to cast it, and UU again to activate its ability to bounce it, for a total of UUUU (plus other requisite mana). This made it difficult to go infinite in early stages of the game, where having quadruple U was difficult at best. However, in addition to Vizier's mana filtering ability, Bramble Sovereign enables you to utilize Palinchron with just two U sources.
Example Boardstate: Bramble Sovereign, two basic Islands, and Gaea's Cradle that taps for 7 G.
Hand: Palinchron
Cast Palinchron. 2 triggers on the stack: Untap + Sovereign ETB.
Resolve the untap, untap your 3 lands. Cradle now taps for 8 G (Palinchron is an additional creature on the field).
Tap your lands, float UU and 8 G. (Normally you would be stuck at this step, as bouncing Palinchron back to your hand would use your only UU.)
Resolve Sovereign's ability, pay GG into it. You now have UU and 6 G floating.
The token copy of Palinchron ETBs. You now have 9 creatures.
Untap your lands. Float UU + 9 G. You now have a total of UUUU and 15 G.
Pay UUGG, and bounce the original Palinchron to your hand.
Repeat these steps. You will be able to make infinite G.
While this method limits you to only infinite G, that result is better than the alternative: not making infinite at all. At the end of this loop, you can refuse to bounce Palinchron to your hand, and still end with UUUU floating, enabling you to cast any blue creatures you need to ensure victory.
These three combinations (BS+CoF+CC, BS+CoF+CC+Aluren, and BS+Palinchron w/ only 2 U sources) combine to enshrine Bramble Sovereign's permanent position in the deck. I think the only possible way this card could be bested if they printed something similar, possibly in UG, where you could pay to make tokens of any creatures, but that YOU get the tokens. Needless to say that would be ridiculously powerful, but we all know what they say about the colors blue and green in EDH...
I like to note other examples of how I am able to go infinite in this deck as I discover them. I may put them all in a dedicated post at one point, but for now here is something that came up in recent testing:
While this does not produce infinite mana, this allows you to draw every card in your deck for the win. Cast High Tide with an additional blue source. Cast The Cloud of Faeries, untap the Forest and Island, have a spare G floating. Activate Azami's ability by tapping Sylvan Safekeeper to draw a card, and then return it to your hand with Cloudstone Curio. Recast it, bounce the Cloud of Faeries, and repeat. You will be able to draw your entire deck.
"But GC, how do you win from this point?"
Well that's a little bit of a convoluted process. If you haven't play a land yet this turn, throw down Nykthos or Gaea's Cradle and do the same thing to make infinite mana, and go from there. If you're out of a land drop, you've gotta make some more!
Cast all of your artifact ramp: Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox. Float 3GG. Cast Living Wish to fetch Azusa, Lost but Seeking from the sideboard, and then cast her with the remaining mana. This will enable you to play your other value lands for the win!
I didn't go through the pages of your thread to see if it had already been suggested, but have you considered Laboratory Maniac? It's a nice clean win condition that is tutorable with Momir and wins the game on the spot instead of allowing your opponents a turn cycle.
Otherwise, I think the deck is compact and well-designed. I personally feel that you're light on the removal effects, but that's mostly preference.
Also, have you considered Hack effects? Glamerdye and other replacement effects so that you can change the wording of Momir's ability to be blue keyword based or green keyword based on both halves. This could allow you to combo off with just Momir and a couple of mana dorks, and it's a pretty interesting and strong strategy. I recommend checking out the TappedOut thread if you haven't deeply considered this strategy.
I didn't go through the pages of your thread to see if it had already been suggested, but have you considered Laboratory Maniac? It's a nice clean win condition that is tutorable with Momir and wins the game on the spot instead of allowing your opponents a turn cycle.
First off, thanks for commenting! I appreciate the feedback. Labman has previously been a consideration of a wincon, however it has one strategic drawback in that it's an otherwise dead card. Every creature in the deck offers some utility in some respect, and that's what makes very few cards actively dead draws in the deck. Being able to topdeck something live and ready to do something proactive is a key strength of this deck. To that end, Labman is very reliable, however it doesn't do enough on its own independently to warrant a spot in this particular deck. Additionally, waiting a turn cycle rarely matters once you've bounced all permanents, and can bounce any other permanents and spells they play. When your opponents have zero lands, zero other permanents, and you have an infinitely recurring Venser available to bounce anything they may play, the threats to you are basically nil.
Otherwise, I think the deck is compact and well-designed. I personally feel that you're light on the removal effects, but that's mostly preference.
Thank you! It makes me happy to hear that. I actually run little removal because this deck often focuses on protecting itself and the combo pieces it needs to go off. Additionally, it is largely a meta call. If I played with someone whose commander was Linvala, Keeper of Silence for example, then I would absolutely run much more creature removal because she's a hard lock on my deck. But my meta doesn't quite call for much creature removal right now, and I do run 3 pieces of artifact/enchantment hate, all 3 of which can be tutored for.
Also, have you considered Hack effects? Glamerdye and other replacement effects so that you can change the wording of Momir's ability to be blue keyword based or green keyword based on both halves. This could allow you to combo off with just Momir and a couple of mana dorks, and it's a pretty interesting and strong strategy. I recommend checking out the TappedOut thread if you haven't deeply considered this strategy.
I have actually talked at length with the CEDH Hackball people. Ultimately, they and I have very different views on the viability of Vig. I personally think the Hackball combo deck is too brittle and prone to disruption to be very effective. While I openly admit my Vig deck is slower than theirs, I do think it has more reliability at all tables, from CEDH to casual. It can win from an absolutely empty board, and has done so in the past.
Thank you again for all your comments, any chance I get to talk with someone about the deck makes me happy! If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!
So C18 is soon upon us, and we have already seen all the cards that have been released! There are a few that stand out, so let's go through some of the ones that have the potential to see play in this deck!
The first, biggest fish to fry is Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle! This is a very unique card, not in the least of which is that it is a castable land creature.
One of the key features of this card is that the counter removal is a MAY ability. So while I *can* remove counters from it to make it a creature, I can also just keep it as a land. Sometimes it's safer to keep as a land!
Now this card isn't really useful as an attacker. Not only is it a 12/12 with no evasion, but this deck never attacks! So under what circumstances would I want him as a creature? A: For instances where having more creatures matters, such as Gaea's Cradle, Earthcraft, Growing Rites of Itlimoc, and Chord of Calling (It still adds to devotion even as a land, so that's useful with Nykthos).
So why does this card attract my attention? A four-drop land doesn't seem very competitive! Especially as the land ETBs tapped, and I hate tapped lands!
Well in short, I like that it has utility both early and late in the game. Early in the game it comes in as a land that acts as ramp, and fuels a faster combo with Palinchron. Later in the game it acts as a key Momir Vig triggerer, since it is a UG creature and triggers both of Vig's abilities.
At four mana, it's a little awkward, but I do think that it has some potential to be playable. I will be testing with it in the near future, once I can find a cut!
Hello everyone! It has been nearly two months since I last posted here! Since then I have made a number of different changes to the deck. You can find them in the most recent changelog on the front page of this primer.
I have updated the main post and added some new information! Changes have been made to the main deck, the sideboard (now called wishboard!), and finally the game plan of the deck (reduced to turns 1-4, rather than 1-8). I also added a "Flex cards" section to the "Cards on my Radar" section to outline different cards that are playable competitively, but are not featured as permanent spots in the deck. I play this deck with a whole mix of different decks. Carpet of Flowers and Mental Misstep may be good when there are blue decks and competitive decks in the format, but they don't do much when people aren't playing those kinds of things!
Below you can find a quick review of C18 and GRN cards that have made it into the deck!
Ravenous Ooze comes into the wishboard to provide an answer for graveyard-based decks. It turns off any kind of reanimator deck which can be quite problematic. While it does not deal with noncreature reanimation (unlike Scavenging Ooze, which it replaced), the benefits in my opinion outweigh the drawbacks! I will still keep Scooze around in case I change my mind, but for now I think the Ravenous Slime takes the cake!
On the whole, C18 has been largely disappointing. While Arixmethes is a neat card, I am not sure I want to run it. I will still test with it, but at four mana, I don't think it does nearly as much as other cards with similar costs. And I would never use it as a big beater! So it largely seems to be a very inefficient way of ramping. But perhaps some testing is necessary to really glean that information! I'll be sure to keep you updated.
The BIG card for the latter half of 2018 however, is none other than Beast Whisperer! This card is an absolute house. It is a Primordial Sage reduced by two. It generates so much value it's quite frankly ridiculous. And if you happen to be in a situation where you have infinite ETBs but not infinite mana, Whisperer will let you draw your entire library and search for an answer to get out of that mess to win the game! He has earned a permanent spot, right next to Vizier of the Menagerie as Momir Vig's top lieutenants in the deck.
I am SO excited for Ravnica Alliances and what the Simic may bring for us! I am desperately hoping that their guild isn't reduced to +1/+1 counters again as it was last time. They have so much more potential for greater things, and I hope that their new cards reflect that. Perhaps Simic will get a modular creature like Selesnya did? Only time will tell.
For now, the deck seems to be getting faster and faster each time I play it, which is ultimately the goal. Turn 4 wins are the expected norm these days with Vig! Hopefully new ways will come out to drop that to a consistent turn 3, rather than uncommonly. Until next time!
Hello everyone! I hope you are having a very nice Thanksgiving coming up.
No real updates here, but just wanted to confirm my excitement for UMA and potential reprints. Already eyeing getting a Cavern of Souls and Eternal Witness in their sweet Box Topper arts.
What kinds of reprints do you expect there to be? I am hoping for reprints of one-time printed cards, such as Oracle of Mul Daya, and reprints of cards without foil equivalents, such as Sylvan Safekeeper, Mystic Remora, and Carpet of Flowers.
Hello everyone! Happy New Year to all of you! I hope your holidays were filled with happiness and good cheer.
But the excitement doesn't end there! Today marks the start of the new spoiler season, and we are keeping an eye out on all things Simic! Rather than make an individual post for each new card, I will review all of the Simic cards that stand a chance of making it in the deck. While I do not expect Azorius or Gruul to give us any cool new blue and green cards respectively, I do believe that the Simic guild potentially has some neat stuff for the deck. I know for a fact there is already at least one card that will make its way into the deck!
So stay tuned! Once full spoilers have been released I will make a post reviewing all things Simic!
I likewise am keeping an eye out for Simix spoilers for my Tasigur deck. The new Training Grounds Bear is kinda cool and opens up some redundancy in Simic colors. Other than that, the new Jellyfish Monster is super cool but not massively competitive. Too bad!
Hello everyone, thank you for stopping by! Today I will be reviewing cards from the newest set, Ravnica Allegiance! I decided to review a few different cards that do not necessarily have potential in the deck, but that some may consider playing in their builds of Momir Vig. This time around I am going to try giving the cards a rating on a 5-point scale.
5.0: This card is an automatic staple in the deck, and is a critical component of the win package, such as Temur Sabertooth.
4.0: This card is a staple in the deck, but is not generally a part of the winning combo. Cards like Vizier of the Menagerie fit this rating.
3.0: It's not a very exciting card, but it gets the job done, and I will play it until they print something much better. Cards like Counterspell.
2.0: I will play this card only if I need it and don't have anything better to play, OR this is a good budget version of another card in the deck. Peregrine Drake fits here.
1.0: I will not play this card in the deck, it is too narrow/cost-prohibitive to consider.
With that, let's get down to the fun stuff! We will start out with the card everyone is most excited about!
Rating: 3.5
Explanation: In short, this card is amazing. Being a Birthing Pod on a legendary creature is incredibly powerful. This card genuinely made me consider whether she could be a better commander than Momir Vig, and people in the CEDH community seem to think she has a lot of speed to her combo. However, building her would require reworking the deck from the ground up, and ultimately turning into a completely different deck. So in this context, this is only a rating of her in the 99.
So right off the bat, she has several advantages to Birthing Pod itself. She is a creature, which means she can be tutored for by Momir Vig. She is UG, which means that she will fully trigger Vig. She is also an Elf Wizard (and Ooze!), meaning that her creature types are directly matching Momir Vig's, which is relevant in the deck (especially if Azami ever comes back). And finally, she does not have an additional activation cost, unlike Pod, which costs 1 and a green Phyrexian.
What is preventing me from giving her a full 4.0 rating is her biggest, glaring drawback: She cannot activate the turn she comes down. For 4 colorless mana and 4 life, you can play and activate traditional Pod on the same turn. With the new Prime Speaker, you must wait until the next turn to use her at all. Plus, she always costs 2GU, meaning that you cannot play her on turn 3 without additional ramp (unlike Pod).
Right now, I think Vannifar's benefits outweigh her cons. Being able to tutor for her and also trigger another search with her is very powerful. Creatures matter in this deck. While she is not necessary to the ultimate game plan, neither is Birthing Pod. She is almost certainly going to be swapped in for Birthing Pod.
Rating: 3.5
Explanation: This card a strict upgrade to Training Grounds for me. Just like with Vannifar and Pod, this is a UG creature with an effect that I already make use of in the deck. While it does cost more mana than traditional Training Grounds, I believe the extra mana is worth the fact that it is a blue green creature. Whether you need this effect at all is a matter of some debate, but I think it is justified in running it.
Rating: 1.5
Explanation: This card should not be viewed as a creature per se, but as an infinite mana outlet plus tutor (though if you have infinite mana, you probably already have an infinite tutor too). The important aspect of this card is that its ability - draw half and gain half of X - triggers on cast rather than ETB. This makes it a very powerful effect to draw your entire deck in an uncounterable manner (unless they have Stifle or Trickbind, but those cards are rare).
I would not play this card in this deck, but if you want to make sure you have a way to draw lots of cards in a way that isn't easily counterable, this card may do it for you.
Rating: 0.0
Explanation: Oof. Seems like Zegana lost everything when she was deposed as Prime Speaker. This a card that we in the business like to refer to as "very bad." When you can get the same effect from an uncommon in the same set, for less mana and fewer color restrictions (See Trollbred Guardian) you know this card is not doing very well. I would not play this card even in a +1/+1 counters themed deck.
Rating: 3.0
Explanation: The LIZARD WIZARD is here! For all intents and purposes, this is a more difficult-costed Mystic Snake, especially given the fact that Azami is not currently featured in the deck (thus we are unable to make use of the Wizard typing). That said, I think that having a second tutorable counterspell is pretty useful. This is not the most optimal card to play, but I may be testing this in lieu of a current counterspell (either Mystic Snake itself, or Counterspell).
Rating: 2.0
Explanation: While this deck does not shy away from playing CMC 3 mana dorks, they must be more useful than just producing 2 mana. Shaman of Forgotten Ways is an integral part of the deck because its second ability is the primary way the deck closes the game out. Somberwald Sage taps for 3 mana. While both these dorks are limited to creatures only, creatures are the primary card type in the deck, so it's not a big restriction.
I think this card is okay at best, and could potentially make the cut for budget versions of this deck, particularly because it is a UG creature and a Wizard to boot.
Rating: 2.0
Explanation: I think this card has a lot of potential to be quite good, but it needs the right deck to be good in. You do not want to play this card with the intent of activating its Adapt ability to give it the counters, even if you can reduce the cost (through Biomancer's Familiar). I do not think that this deck is able to support this kind of mana dork, and it will usually tap for just one mana. In Ezuri and other +1/+1 counter decks, I could see this doing a lot of good work, but I do not think it is good enough here.
Rating: 1.0
Explanation: This is a neat card for limited, and a great card for +1/+1 counter decks. However, it does not have a place here. It would only be an infinite mana outlet, and at that point I think it would be more useful to just play Helix Pinnacle, which has several advantages over this card, and Pinnacle was cut a very long time ago.
Rating: 1.0
Explanation: Explore became an instant! So I guess that justified adding another color to it? This card is not very good as a ramp spell. If they had put this on a 1/1, such as a Coiling Oracle, I would absolutely play it. However, as an instant it just is not good enough for the deck.
Rating: 2.5
Explanation: I think this is a neat card that has its uses in many Simic decks. I do not think that those uses extend to this deck. I have previously declined to play cards like Stifle, Trickbind, or even their versatile creature version, Nimble Obstructionist. I have also taken out most of my clones over the years of refining this deck, as I learned that their usefulness is very limited (I used to run four clones!). While putting these two effects onto one card makes it better than having just one effect, I do not think either effect is necessary enough to justify playing this card. However, if you are on a budget and your meta calls for countering abilities, this may be decent.
Rating: 3.0
Explanation: Incubation/Incongruity is a neat card. It is essentially a modular card between card selection and removal. I am hesitant to play noncreature spells in lieu of creatures, but I think that this is a very solid card that I will consider adding to the deck. I do not currently run any removal, which is a conscious decision that not everyone agrees with. If you think you need a piece of removal, this is an excellent choice, and I would play this over Reality Shift if I had to choose one. I would also play this over Beast Within, but the two are closely matched in usefulness.
Boy oh boy! Those were a lot of cards to rate when I usually don't even consider most cards in sets! There are at least TWO new cards for my deck, both of which are creatures, AND are UG colors! You can't get better than that. Prime Speaker Vannifar and Biomancer's Familiar I think are going to be excellent additions to the deck. I will be updating the master list once I get some testing done with them. I will also be testing out Frilled Mystic in a potentially controversial swap in for Counterspell.
Thank you again for coming by and reading my review! I am excited to talk about these cards, so please comment if you have any thoughts you want to share!
I have updated the deck list and descriptions, and added the newest Adds/Removals! There are many cards I am currently testing with or am interested in, so take a look at the "Cards on my Radar" section!
A recent game I played led to an interesting situation where I had a field full of creatures, a hand full of green and blue creatures to tutor with, and an opponent that was heavily telegraphing counterspells in their hand.
As I prepared to go off, I tutored for, and cast Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, both to bait his counterspell, and to try to protect my combo. They responded with a counter, to which I responded with a Frilled Mystic, and they had a second counter at the ready. Following this exchange they became tapped out, and I was free and in the clear to cast my Cloud of Faeries and win the game.
The experience prompted a question that I have been mulling over for the last few days, which is: To protect your combo from counters, what is the preferable card? Teferi, or Autumn's Veil? This post is a discussion about that. Both of these cards do very different things, and here I try to weigh the pros and cons of each.
Teferi has a number of pros to consider in his favor:
He is a creature, which means he can be tutored for by Momir Vig.
He is a Wizard, so with Cavern of Souls he becomes uncounterable, and if the deck contains Azami, Lady of Scrolls, he gains even more value for his typing.
He offers protection for all my spells on multiple turns (making my instants and counters uncounterable), and turns off all opponents' instants.
He lets me cast creature spells at instant speed.
However, Teferi also has significant drawbacks, namely that he costs five mana, and costs 2UUU. Triple blue is not an easy casting cost, and can often mean the difference between having enough mana to combo off on one turn, or having to wait until a future turn to play the protection/bait first. More situationally, Teferi also prevents other people from casting counters. So if I cast Teferi early, and player B tries to combo off, player C can't respond to counter their abilities.
On the flipside of things, Autumn's Veil has different upsides and downsides:
Veil is an instant, and at a CMC of 1, is both easy to cast and tutor for (with Spellseeker).
Veil can act as a counterspell when protecting my permanents or spells.
It is colored G, which is the predominant color in the deck.
Due to its cheap cost, it can be used the turn I combo off rather than having to cast it on a different turn.
Veil can also be used to protect against targeted removal, even at sorcery speed.
However, the downsides are nothing to write off either:
Not being a creature is huge in this deck. I can still get it with Spellseeker, but my go-to tutor target is Crop Rotation, not this card. Additionally, it only protects against blue and black cards. While this is irrelevant for counterspells, it does not protect against Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares, two of the most ubiquitous removal spells.
On the whole, I think that Autumn's Veil is more useful in metas with enough blue and counters to hamper you, while in other metas Teferi probably edges it out slightly, despite being five mana. Going into a meta blind, I think I would tend to err toward the Veil, but I could absolutely be wrong about that.
That's a pretty solid analysis, methinks. I would lean towards Autumn's Veil for CMC considerations since you aren't running a heavy mana dork package, meaning that CMC is even more important to you than it would otherwise be.
Hello everyone! With the recent announcement that MTGS will be closing down in just over a month's time, I wanted to make an update stating that I will endeavor to leave as complete a record of this deck as possible here, and hopefully a link to a new forum location to further discuss the deck. Thank you all for your continued support, and I will soon be updating the deck with WAR and MH1 cards!
Ladies and gentlemen, prepare yourselves for a long overdue post about all of the many changes this deck has undergone over the last several months!
WAR, MH1, and M20 have each brought numerous cards that have increased the overall efficiency and power level of the deck, while reducing its curve. There have been a number of changes made to the deck, and I am going to try to talk about all of them in this post! Let's get to it.
WAR:
War of the Spark brought in two main cards that increase the overall consistency of the deck, while decreasing the number of turns needed to combo off. It also added a very useful card advantage engine that helps protect my combo in multiple ways.
The first, Neoform. This is a one-off Vannifar trigger. While the added +1/+1 counter is pretty useless, the ability to directly tutor a creature onto the field is not to be underestimated. It would also synergize great if the deck still ran Glen Elendra Archmage. The lack of a self-exiling clause, like Eldritch Evolution has, is another great check in its favor. Overall a very solid tutor.
Next, Tamiyo, Collector of Tales. This card combines the abilities of Tajuru Preserver, Wood Sage, and Eternal Witness all into one neat package, plus she protects me from discarding as well. While the CMC of 4 is pretty steep, I think that her overall benefits are fairly strong, and worth at least testing in the deck.
Finally, the most important card from WAR, Finale of Devastation. This card does it all. It tutors, it reanimates, and it wins the game. It can even do all three at the same time! Aside from the obvious reasons for running it, this card is particularly relevant because it gives my creatures haste. This means that I can activate Shaman of Forgotten Ways the same turn it comes down. This has justified me cutting Venser, Shaper Savant from the deck, who was necessary to win the game. More will be explained down below.
MH1:
Modern Horizons has undoubtedly increased the overall power level of the deck with new ways to protect the deck and shut down threatening strategies.
Force of Negation / Force of Vigor: The two best Forces printed, these cards have quickly become staples in the CEDH community. Both serve the same purpose of getting rid of threats that would try to stop me from comboing off.
Collector Ouphe: This is a meta choice card, as there are many artifact-based decks that exist here. Does the job better than Manglehorn or Null Rod, since it can be tutored for.
Waterlogged Grove / Prismatic Vista: Two new lands that increase the efficiency of the deck! One lets me draw when I am flooded (or to grab a card I tutored for with Vig), and the other is a very flexible fetchland.
M20:
Two new cards that will definitely require some testing, but seem to be very promising to make the combo faster!
Elvish Reclaimer: This card allows me to tutor for a Cradle, acting as another Crop Rotation option. It is slower than Spellseeker -> Crop Rotation, but it is tutorable itself.
Lotus Field: Field is an important land that allows faster combo potentials. Hexproof is a very key ability that will allow me to keep this source of mana safe. Despite entering tapped, I think it will end up being a valuable addition to the deck.
I will discuss cuts in a subsequent post, but these cards have overall brought much new life to the deck and raised the hype quite a bit!
Today marks the end of an era in the EDH format. Many decks relied heavily on Paradox Engine to remain competitive and to be able to hold their own. It was in of itself an easy enabler of quick combos that overrun the game. I am certain a lot of people - while understanding that the card needed to go - are still upset of the reduction of their decks' power levels.
BUT NOT HERE! Momir Vig players rejoice, for Painter's Servant has been freed and is now the most powerful card in the deck! Servant enables Vig players to activate both modes of Vig with just a single colored card. It becomes incredibly powerful very quickly which enables much faster combos. Stay tuned for a deck list update, because I am going to be making this deck much faster with Painter's Servant now!
The primer has officially been FULLY UPDATED! All new relevant cards have been added (and removed), descriptions and wincons edited, and the primer is once more fully optimized. Please let me know if I have missed anything!
I noticed you removed Palinchron but it still exists in the infinite combo section of the primer.
I also noticed you didn't add Painter's Servant but mentioned it being very useful. Could be due to card availability but just wondering. The card is in the combo section of the primer as well. I understand wanting to cover all strategies, even ones not included in the deck, could help to mention you aren't running cards.
Just as a side note, I love Momir Vig and I'm glad someone is out there keeping up a primer for him.
I noticed you removed Palinchron but it still exists in the infinite combo section of the primer.
I also noticed you didn't add Painter's Servant but mentioned it being very useful. Could be due to card availability but just wondering. The card is in the combo section of the primer as well. I understand wanting to cover all strategies, even ones not included in the deck, could help to mention you aren't running cards.
Thanks for catching my slipups! I thought I missed a few spots. I've further amended the primer to reflect more of the changes and fully removed Palinchron.
I do actually have a section called "Cards that didn't make the cut" just under the individual explanations of each card. I will be expanding this section in time to encapsulate my entire "maybeboard". I've put Palinchron in there for now.
As for Painter's Servant, I did add him to the main deck list, but I hadn't updated the "recent changes" post - I have now! I ended up cutting Seedborn Muse for the time being.
Just as a side note, I love Momir Vig and I'm glad someone is out there keeping up a primer for him.
Thank you so much! I hope that this list inspires other people to try Momir Vig - he's a fairly old legendary, but he is one of the very best in my opinion. I love hearing feedback from you and others
Hello! I have not posted here in a while, but that has changed! I have recently updated my deck with MAJOR changes, please take a look! Most importantly, the inclusion of the Hermit Oracle combo is now entered in. I will follow up with a more in-depth post later on, stay tuned!
NOTE: Beginning with Ikoria, I will no longer be updating this primer location. You can find my primer continued HERE at MoxField, along with a consistently updated decklist. Thank you all for your ongoing support over the years, I have been proud to continue to keep this primer alive and well, and will continue to do so elsewhere.
I think your casual list is pretty decent! I would say just a few things:
1. I encourge Ezuri, Claw of Progress in this deck. I think you have the potential to turn your small dudes and your +1/+1 counter theme into a real beatdown deck as a secondary wincon. Plus, you can also play Craterhoof Behemoth to that end.
2. I think you have a lot of potential with Intruder Alarm and all your mana dorks. Especially with Cloudstone Curio, you could potentially go infinite in that way too! Also works great with Craterhoof.
3. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is not a card to be underestimated. He provides protection on your turn to combo off, and he lets you abuse Seedborn Muse (since my best friend Prophet is banned... may she rest in peace).
4. You could definitely cut both walkers for more creatures, like some of those I listed above.
5. I'm not a fan of Hadana's Climb, but if you can get one, I'd recommend Sylvan Library! I also think Zendikar Resurgent is kind of "win-more" and doesn't really have a place in the deck.
6. I think you can test with Treespeaker to see if it works for you! If it doesn't, then cut it!
7. I personally don't like that Weaver of Currents only taps for CC, and that your deck has lots of color requirements, but if you like it, then go ahead and play it!
Hope this helps, please let me know if you have any other questions!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
This looks like a powerful card advantage in most metas. Fetchlands abound everywhere, and utility lands are semi-common as well. Most notably, drawing cards when creatures activate their abilities is quite powerful in its own right. This is a MAY ability, so it can be used to not deck yourself! And finally, being a 2/5 makes it a very efficient blocker for just 1GG, and this deck loves efficient blockers.
I think this card will definitely find its way into the deck, though it will require some difficult cuts!
Next, we have Mirror Image! At first blush, this seems like a strictly worse Clone, and many people have derided it as such. But our Phantasmal Image already only has one purpose: to copy Palinchron. So we're only copying our own creatures. There is however, one critical reason for why this card is better than any other clone printed, except for Phantasmal Image.
ALUREN. This is the second-ever clone printed that gets in with Aluren. This is very important, as it makes going infinite much easier as a result. With Palinchron and Aluren on the field, both this and Phantasmal Image can go infinite with just 5 lands on the field; 3 if Training Grounds is out! This provides a second effect of a clone card, which makes the deck overall more resilient.
While I am not sure that a second clone effect is 100% necessary at this time, I will be testing with this for sure, and will try to see if there are any valid cuts that can be made.
This card initially appears to be pretty decent, as it takes any kind of land and puts it directly onto the battlefield tapped. However, on the whole this is a weaker form of ramp than most other elves and ramp, especially at CMC 3. While I had initially looked at the card, I am not convinced that it is good enough to see play.
Last but not least, our new green planeswalker, Viven! She takes a similar role to Nissa, Vital Force, which used to feature in the deck. While I do believe that Viven is too slow for the deck (just like Nissa, which is why she was eventually cut). I think she is still quite the powerful walker! If you are looking to play a more casual game with Vig, I would give Vivien serious consideration!
That's all I have for today, thank you for stopping by! Please comment if you have any questions.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
In recent days I had been growing somewhat doubtful of the presence of Bramble Sovereign in my deck. While I had initially spoken glowingly about the card, I had begun to develop reservations about its ability to perform in the deck. The opportunities to effectively copy my creatures were uncommon at best, and the card was entirely worthless when playing with legendary creatures. Sometimes a copy was a "nice to have" card, but not necessary, such as Seedborn Muse or Sylvan Safekeeper. On top of all this, it doesn't make infinite mana with Cloud of Faeries without another card to bounce the Faeries! I had been considering cutting the card for something that performs better.
That is, until today's testing.
There were two specific moments where my testing with this card proved to be extremely beneficial, and situations where I would not have won if it had not been for this card.
The first was a brand new win-condition that Sovereign enables in this deck: Bramble Sovereign + Cloud of Faeries + Cloudstone Curio.
While this combination of cards does not make infinite mana, it does create infinite 1/1 copies of Cloud of Faeries. This enables you to swing for lethal against your opponents (assuming your board survives a turn).
Example Boardstate: Bramble Sovereign, Cloudstone Curio (CC), untapped basic Island, and untapped basic Forest.
Hand: Cloud of Faeries (CoF)
It's also important to remember that this combo Bramble Sovereign + Cloud of Faeries + Cloudstone Curio coupled with Aluren DOES make infinite mana. So it's another way to set up to win the game on the spot.
Next, I came to the realization that Bramble Sovereign enables a Palinchron infinite mana engine without needing a minimum four U sources or Vizier of the Menagerie to filer colors. Normally, in order to cast Palinchron and bounce it back to the hand, you need UU to cast it, and UU again to activate its ability to bounce it, for a total of UUUU (plus other requisite mana). This made it difficult to go infinite in early stages of the game, where having quadruple U was difficult at best. However, in addition to Vizier's mana filtering ability, Bramble Sovereign enables you to utilize Palinchron with just two U sources.
Hand: Palinchron
While this method limits you to only infinite G, that result is better than the alternative: not making infinite at all. At the end of this loop, you can refuse to bounce Palinchron to your hand, and still end with UUUU floating, enabling you to cast any blue creatures you need to ensure victory.
These three combinations (BS+CoF+CC, BS+CoF+CC+Aluren, and BS+Palinchron w/ only 2 U sources) combine to enshrine Bramble Sovereign's permanent position in the deck. I think the only possible way this card could be bested if they printed something similar, possibly in UG, where you could pay to make tokens of any creatures, but that YOU get the tokens. Needless to say that would be ridiculously powerful, but we all know what they say about the colors blue and green in EDH...
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Required cards:
1 Island
1 High Tide
1 Forest
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Cloud of Faeries
While this does not produce infinite mana, this allows you to draw every card in your deck for the win. Cast High Tide with an additional blue source. Cast The Cloud of Faeries, untap the Forest and Island, have a spare G floating. Activate Azami's ability by tapping Sylvan Safekeeper to draw a card, and then return it to your hand with Cloudstone Curio. Recast it, bounce the Cloud of Faeries, and repeat. You will be able to draw your entire deck.
"But GC, how do you win from this point?"
Well that's a little bit of a convoluted process. If you haven't play a land yet this turn, throw down Nykthos or Gaea's Cradle and do the same thing to make infinite mana, and go from there. If you're out of a land drop, you've gotta make some more!
Cast all of your artifact ramp: Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox. Float 3GG. Cast Living Wish to fetch Azusa, Lost but Seeking from the sideboard, and then cast her with the remaining mana. This will enable you to play your other value lands for the win!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Otherwise, I think the deck is compact and well-designed. I personally feel that you're light on the removal effects, but that's mostly preference.
Also, have you considered Hack effects? Glamerdye and other replacement effects so that you can change the wording of Momir's ability to be blue keyword based or green keyword based on both halves. This could allow you to combo off with just Momir and a couple of mana dorks, and it's a pretty interesting and strong strategy. I recommend checking out the TappedOut thread if you haven't deeply considered this strategy.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
First off, thanks for commenting! I appreciate the feedback. Labman has previously been a consideration of a wincon, however it has one strategic drawback in that it's an otherwise dead card. Every creature in the deck offers some utility in some respect, and that's what makes very few cards actively dead draws in the deck. Being able to topdeck something live and ready to do something proactive is a key strength of this deck. To that end, Labman is very reliable, however it doesn't do enough on its own independently to warrant a spot in this particular deck. Additionally, waiting a turn cycle rarely matters once you've bounced all permanents, and can bounce any other permanents and spells they play. When your opponents have zero lands, zero other permanents, and you have an infinitely recurring Venser available to bounce anything they may play, the threats to you are basically nil.
Thank you! It makes me happy to hear that. I actually run little removal because this deck often focuses on protecting itself and the combo pieces it needs to go off. Additionally, it is largely a meta call. If I played with someone whose commander was Linvala, Keeper of Silence for example, then I would absolutely run much more creature removal because she's a hard lock on my deck. But my meta doesn't quite call for much creature removal right now, and I do run 3 pieces of artifact/enchantment hate, all 3 of which can be tutored for.
I have actually talked at length with the CEDH Hackball people. Ultimately, they and I have very different views on the viability of Vig. I personally think the Hackball combo deck is too brittle and prone to disruption to be very effective. While I openly admit my Vig deck is slower than theirs, I do think it has more reliability at all tables, from CEDH to casual. It can win from an absolutely empty board, and has done so in the past.
Thank you again for all your comments, any chance I get to talk with someone about the deck makes me happy! If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
The first, biggest fish to fry is Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle! This is a very unique card, not in the least of which is that it is a castable land creature.
One of the key features of this card is that the counter removal is a MAY ability. So while I *can* remove counters from it to make it a creature, I can also just keep it as a land. Sometimes it's safer to keep as a land!
Now this card isn't really useful as an attacker. Not only is it a 12/12 with no evasion, but this deck never attacks! So under what circumstances would I want him as a creature? A: For instances where having more creatures matters, such as Gaea's Cradle, Earthcraft, Growing Rites of Itlimoc, and Chord of Calling (It still adds to devotion even as a land, so that's useful with Nykthos).
So why does this card attract my attention? A four-drop land doesn't seem very competitive! Especially as the land ETBs tapped, and I hate tapped lands!
Well in short, I like that it has utility both early and late in the game. Early in the game it comes in as a land that acts as ramp, and fuels a faster combo with Palinchron. Later in the game it acts as a key Momir Vig triggerer, since it is a UG creature and triggers both of Vig's abilities.
At four mana, it's a little awkward, but I do think that it has some potential to be playable. I will be testing with it in the near future, once I can find a cut!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
I have updated the main post and added some new information! Changes have been made to the main deck, the sideboard (now called wishboard!), and finally the game plan of the deck (reduced to turns 1-4, rather than 1-8). I also added a "Flex cards" section to the "Cards on my Radar" section to outline different cards that are playable competitively, but are not featured as permanent spots in the deck. I play this deck with a whole mix of different decks. Carpet of Flowers and Mental Misstep may be good when there are blue decks and competitive decks in the format, but they don't do much when people aren't playing those kinds of things!
Below you can find a quick review of C18 and GRN cards that have made it into the deck!
C18: Ravenous Slime
Ravenous Ooze comes into the wishboard to provide an answer for graveyard-based decks. It turns off any kind of reanimator deck which can be quite problematic. While it does not deal with noncreature reanimation (unlike Scavenging Ooze, which it replaced), the benefits in my opinion outweigh the drawbacks! I will still keep Scooze around in case I change my mind, but for now I think the Ravenous Slime takes the cake!
On the whole, C18 has been largely disappointing. While Arixmethes is a neat card, I am not sure I want to run it. I will still test with it, but at four mana, I don't think it does nearly as much as other cards with similar costs. And I would never use it as a big beater! So it largely seems to be a very inefficient way of ramping. But perhaps some testing is necessary to really glean that information! I'll be sure to keep you updated.
The BIG card for the latter half of 2018 however, is none other than Beast Whisperer! This card is an absolute house. It is a Primordial Sage reduced by two. It generates so much value it's quite frankly ridiculous. And if you happen to be in a situation where you have infinite ETBs but not infinite mana, Whisperer will let you draw your entire library and search for an answer to get out of that mess to win the game! He has earned a permanent spot, right next to Vizier of the Menagerie as Momir Vig's top lieutenants in the deck.
I am SO excited for Ravnica Alliances and what the Simic may bring for us! I am desperately hoping that their guild isn't reduced to +1/+1 counters again as it was last time. They have so much more potential for greater things, and I hope that their new cards reflect that. Perhaps Simic will get a modular creature like Selesnya did? Only time will tell.
For now, the deck seems to be getting faster and faster each time I play it, which is ultimately the goal. Turn 4 wins are the expected norm these days with Vig! Hopefully new ways will come out to drop that to a consistent turn 3, rather than uncommonly. Until next time!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
No real updates here, but just wanted to confirm my excitement for UMA and potential reprints. Already eyeing getting a Cavern of Souls and Eternal Witness in their sweet Box Topper arts.
What kinds of reprints do you expect there to be? I am hoping for reprints of one-time printed cards, such as Oracle of Mul Daya, and reprints of cards without foil equivalents, such as Sylvan Safekeeper, Mystic Remora, and Carpet of Flowers.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
But the excitement doesn't end there! Today marks the start of the new spoiler season, and we are keeping an eye out on all things Simic! Rather than make an individual post for each new card, I will review all of the Simic cards that stand a chance of making it in the deck. While I do not expect Azorius or Gruul to give us any cool new blue and green cards respectively, I do believe that the Simic guild potentially has some neat stuff for the deck. I know for a fact there is already at least one card that will make its way into the deck!
So stay tuned! Once full spoilers have been released I will make a post reviewing all things Simic!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
5.0: This card is an automatic staple in the deck, and is a critical component of the win package, such as Temur Sabertooth.
4.0: This card is a staple in the deck, but is not generally a part of the winning combo. Cards like Vizier of the Menagerie fit this rating.
3.0: It's not a very exciting card, but it gets the job done, and I will play it until they print something much better. Cards like Counterspell.
2.0: I will play this card only if I need it and don't have anything better to play, OR this is a good budget version of another card in the deck. Peregrine Drake fits here.
1.0: I will not play this card in the deck, it is too narrow/cost-prohibitive to consider.
With that, let's get down to the fun stuff! We will start out with the card everyone is most excited about!
Rating: 3.5
Explanation: In short, this card is amazing. Being a Birthing Pod on a legendary creature is incredibly powerful. This card genuinely made me consider whether she could be a better commander than Momir Vig, and people in the CEDH community seem to think she has a lot of speed to her combo. However, building her would require reworking the deck from the ground up, and ultimately turning into a completely different deck. So in this context, this is only a rating of her in the 99.
So right off the bat, she has several advantages to Birthing Pod itself. She is a creature, which means she can be tutored for by Momir Vig. She is UG, which means that she will fully trigger Vig. She is also an Elf Wizard (and Ooze!), meaning that her creature types are directly matching Momir Vig's, which is relevant in the deck (especially if Azami ever comes back). And finally, she does not have an additional activation cost, unlike Pod, which costs 1 and a green Phyrexian.
What is preventing me from giving her a full 4.0 rating is her biggest, glaring drawback: She cannot activate the turn she comes down. For 4 colorless mana and 4 life, you can play and activate traditional Pod on the same turn. With the new Prime Speaker, you must wait until the next turn to use her at all. Plus, she always costs 2GU, meaning that you cannot play her on turn 3 without additional ramp (unlike Pod).
Right now, I think Vannifar's benefits outweigh her cons. Being able to tutor for her and also trigger another search with her is very powerful. Creatures matter in this deck. While she is not necessary to the ultimate game plan, neither is Birthing Pod. She is almost certainly going to be swapped in for Birthing Pod.
Rating: 3.5
Explanation: This card a strict upgrade to Training Grounds for me. Just like with Vannifar and Pod, this is a UG creature with an effect that I already make use of in the deck. While it does cost more mana than traditional Training Grounds, I believe the extra mana is worth the fact that it is a blue green creature. Whether you need this effect at all is a matter of some debate, but I think it is justified in running it.
Rating: 1.5
Explanation: This card should not be viewed as a creature per se, but as an infinite mana outlet plus tutor (though if you have infinite mana, you probably already have an infinite tutor too). The important aspect of this card is that its ability - draw half and gain half of X - triggers on cast rather than ETB. This makes it a very powerful effect to draw your entire deck in an uncounterable manner (unless they have Stifle or Trickbind, but those cards are rare).
I would not play this card in this deck, but if you want to make sure you have a way to draw lots of cards in a way that isn't easily counterable, this card may do it for you.
Rating: 0.0
Explanation: Oof. Seems like Zegana lost everything when she was deposed as Prime Speaker. This a card that we in the business like to refer to as "very bad." When you can get the same effect from an uncommon in the same set, for less mana and fewer color restrictions (See Trollbred Guardian) you know this card is not doing very well. I would not play this card even in a +1/+1 counters themed deck.
Rating: 3.0
Explanation: The LIZARD WIZARD is here! For all intents and purposes, this is a more difficult-costed Mystic Snake, especially given the fact that Azami is not currently featured in the deck (thus we are unable to make use of the Wizard typing). That said, I think that having a second tutorable counterspell is pretty useful. This is not the most optimal card to play, but I may be testing this in lieu of a current counterspell (either Mystic Snake itself, or Counterspell).
Rating: 2.0
Explanation: While this deck does not shy away from playing CMC 3 mana dorks, they must be more useful than just producing 2 mana. Shaman of Forgotten Ways is an integral part of the deck because its second ability is the primary way the deck closes the game out. Somberwald Sage taps for 3 mana. While both these dorks are limited to creatures only, creatures are the primary card type in the deck, so it's not a big restriction.
I think this card is okay at best, and could potentially make the cut for budget versions of this deck, particularly because it is a UG creature and a Wizard to boot.
Rating: 2.0
Explanation: I think this card has a lot of potential to be quite good, but it needs the right deck to be good in. You do not want to play this card with the intent of activating its Adapt ability to give it the counters, even if you can reduce the cost (through Biomancer's Familiar). I do not think that this deck is able to support this kind of mana dork, and it will usually tap for just one mana. In Ezuri and other +1/+1 counter decks, I could see this doing a lot of good work, but I do not think it is good enough here.
Rating: 1.0
Explanation: This is a neat card for limited, and a great card for +1/+1 counter decks. However, it does not have a place here. It would only be an infinite mana outlet, and at that point I think it would be more useful to just play Helix Pinnacle, which has several advantages over this card, and Pinnacle was cut a very long time ago.
Rating: 1.0
Explanation: Explore became an instant! So I guess that justified adding another color to it? This card is not very good as a ramp spell. If they had put this on a 1/1, such as a Coiling Oracle, I would absolutely play it. However, as an instant it just is not good enough for the deck.
Rating: 2.5
Explanation: I think this is a neat card that has its uses in many Simic decks. I do not think that those uses extend to this deck. I have previously declined to play cards like Stifle, Trickbind, or even their versatile creature version, Nimble Obstructionist. I have also taken out most of my clones over the years of refining this deck, as I learned that their usefulness is very limited (I used to run four clones!). While putting these two effects onto one card makes it better than having just one effect, I do not think either effect is necessary enough to justify playing this card. However, if you are on a budget and your meta calls for countering abilities, this may be decent.
Rating: 3.0
Explanation: Incubation/Incongruity is a neat card. It is essentially a modular card between card selection and removal. I am hesitant to play noncreature spells in lieu of creatures, but I think that this is a very solid card that I will consider adding to the deck. I do not currently run any removal, which is a conscious decision that not everyone agrees with. If you think you need a piece of removal, this is an excellent choice, and I would play this over Reality Shift if I had to choose one. I would also play this over Beast Within, but the two are closely matched in usefulness.
Boy oh boy! Those were a lot of cards to rate when I usually don't even consider most cards in sets! There are at least TWO new cards for my deck, both of which are creatures, AND are UG colors! You can't get better than that. Prime Speaker Vannifar and Biomancer's Familiar I think are going to be excellent additions to the deck. I will be updating the master list once I get some testing done with them. I will also be testing out Frilled Mystic in a potentially controversial swap in for Counterspell.
Thank you again for coming by and reading my review! I am excited to talk about these cards, so please comment if you have any thoughts you want to share!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
As I prepared to go off, I tutored for, and cast Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, both to bait his counterspell, and to try to protect my combo. They responded with a counter, to which I responded with a Frilled Mystic, and they had a second counter at the ready. Following this exchange they became tapped out, and I was free and in the clear to cast my Cloud of Faeries and win the game.
The experience prompted a question that I have been mulling over for the last few days, which is: To protect your combo from counters, what is the preferable card? Teferi, or Autumn's Veil? This post is a discussion about that. Both of these cards do very different things, and here I try to weigh the pros and cons of each.
Teferi has a number of pros to consider in his favor:
On the flipside of things, Autumn's Veil has different upsides and downsides:
Not being a creature is huge in this deck. I can still get it with Spellseeker, but my go-to tutor target is Crop Rotation, not this card. Additionally, it only protects against blue and black cards. While this is irrelevant for counterspells, it does not protect against Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares, two of the most ubiquitous removal spells.
On the whole, I think that Autumn's Veil is more useful in metas with enough blue and counters to hamper you, while in other metas Teferi probably edges it out slightly, despite being five mana. Going into a meta blind, I think I would tend to err toward the Veil, but I could absolutely be wrong about that.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
WAR, MH1, and M20 have each brought numerous cards that have increased the overall efficiency and power level of the deck, while reducing its curve. There have been a number of changes made to the deck, and I am going to try to talk about all of them in this post! Let's get to it.
WAR:
War of the Spark brought in two main cards that increase the overall consistency of the deck, while decreasing the number of turns needed to combo off. It also added a very useful card advantage engine that helps protect my combo in multiple ways.
The first, Neoform. This is a one-off Vannifar trigger. While the added +1/+1 counter is pretty useless, the ability to directly tutor a creature onto the field is not to be underestimated. It would also synergize great if the deck still ran Glen Elendra Archmage. The lack of a self-exiling clause, like Eldritch Evolution has, is another great check in its favor. Overall a very solid tutor.
Next, Tamiyo, Collector of Tales. This card combines the abilities of Tajuru Preserver, Wood Sage, and Eternal Witness all into one neat package, plus she protects me from discarding as well. While the CMC of 4 is pretty steep, I think that her overall benefits are fairly strong, and worth at least testing in the deck.
Finally, the most important card from WAR, Finale of Devastation. This card does it all. It tutors, it reanimates, and it wins the game. It can even do all three at the same time! Aside from the obvious reasons for running it, this card is particularly relevant because it gives my creatures haste. This means that I can activate Shaman of Forgotten Ways the same turn it comes down. This has justified me cutting Venser, Shaper Savant from the deck, who was necessary to win the game. More will be explained down below.
MH1:
Modern Horizons has undoubtedly increased the overall power level of the deck with new ways to protect the deck and shut down threatening strategies.
Force of Negation / Force of Vigor: The two best Forces printed, these cards have quickly become staples in the CEDH community. Both serve the same purpose of getting rid of threats that would try to stop me from comboing off.
Collector Ouphe: This is a meta choice card, as there are many artifact-based decks that exist here. Does the job better than Manglehorn or Null Rod, since it can be tutored for.
Waterlogged Grove / Prismatic Vista: Two new lands that increase the efficiency of the deck! One lets me draw when I am flooded (or to grab a card I tutored for with Vig), and the other is a very flexible fetchland.
M20:
Two new cards that will definitely require some testing, but seem to be very promising to make the combo faster!
Elvish Reclaimer: This card allows me to tutor for a Cradle, acting as another Crop Rotation option. It is slower than Spellseeker -> Crop Rotation, but it is tutorable itself.
Lotus Field: Field is an important land that allows faster combo potentials. Hexproof is a very key ability that will allow me to keep this source of mana safe. Despite entering tapped, I think it will end up being a valuable addition to the deck.
I will discuss cuts in a subsequent post, but these cards have overall brought much new life to the deck and raised the hype quite a bit!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
BUT NOT HERE! Momir Vig players rejoice, for Painter's Servant has been freed and is now the most powerful card in the deck! Servant enables Vig players to activate both modes of Vig with just a single colored card. It becomes incredibly powerful very quickly which enables much faster combos. Stay tuned for a deck list update, because I am going to be making this deck much faster with Painter's Servant now!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
I also noticed you didn't add Painter's Servant but mentioned it being very useful. Could be due to card availability but just wondering. The card is in the combo section of the primer as well. I understand wanting to cover all strategies, even ones not included in the deck, could help to mention you aren't running cards.
Just as a side note, I love Momir Vig and I'm glad someone is out there keeping up a primer for him.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I do actually have a section called "Cards that didn't make the cut" just under the individual explanations of each card. I will be expanding this section in time to encapsulate my entire "maybeboard". I've put Palinchron in there for now.
As for Painter's Servant, I did add him to the main deck list, but I hadn't updated the "recent changes" post - I have now! I ended up cutting Seedborn Muse for the time being.
Thank you so much! I hope that this list inspires other people to try Momir Vig - he's a fairly old legendary, but he is one of the very best in my opinion. I love hearing feedback from you and others
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG