I might be late to the party, and havn't read through all the posts, so I don't know if Magus of the Candelabra have been mentioned, but he seems like a stronger card then Hope Tender, even though he can't ramp the same (without a land that produces more then 1).
Hi, welcome to the thread! Don't worry about catching up on all the posts, there's been so many that I honestly can't remember whether or not we've discussed Magus of the Candelabra before. I do know that I've at least thought about it a lot and tested it some. You're right that his biggest flaw is that he doesn't produce a net positive mana without lands that produce 2+ mana. The problem is that in the current decklist, there are only three lands that he works with (Gaea's Cradle with 2+ creatures in play, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx with 4+ devotion in play, or Ancient Tomb) and most of those have restrictions on when he's actually going to work with them.
That's the reason that I'm more excited about Hope Tender. Assuming that I hit my land drop, he gives me 4 mana on T3, enough to play Yeva or Tempt with Discovery, while still providing a ton of mana later in the game once Cradle or Nykthos is online. Magus of the Candelabra is little win-more in my estimation, as he's only good once I already have a mana engine online - he's VERY good in that case, of course!
I do appreciate you bringing him up, though, as I forgot to write him up in the OP under ramp spells. I'll make sure that he gets his own section. He might be worth playing over Krosan Restorer for some people, though again I like her ability to go from 3->5 mana without any help.
This card is what got me most excited (right after Ramunap Excavator). I imagine it would be best spend casting with x=3/4, since the big cmc creatures slot is less crowded. But getting 3 or 4 good utility creatures seems like a really good deal to me! Card advantage in monogreen is nothing to scruff at.
I certainly didn't intend to scoff at this card! I do intend to eventually test Uncage the Menagerie out, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about what combinations of creatures would be best to fetch at what values of X in what situations. My only real issue with it is that it doesn't integrate seamlessly with the rest of the deck. Non-creature slots - especially for non-instants - are really at a premium, even for draw spells, and this card has to compete against things like Greater Good and Genesis Wave. I would have to tap out to cast it to be of assistance early in the game; the only time I could cast it AND the creatures I fetch would be by the time the deck is generating a broken amount mana or has a Seedborn Muse going, at which point things are usually pretty well in hand anyway.
That having been said, I can see this card being huge in green decks that don't mind operating at sorcery speed. It's especially good in EDH, since the "different name" clause won't ever cause any problems (outside of maybe a G/B Relentless Rats deck?). I think it might be the best fit in a deck like Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, that wants tons of bodies on the field and can work to protect and accelerate into them for the final swing. This card would be an excellent way for a deck like that to recover from an early wrath.
I certainly didn't intend to scoff at this card! I do intend to eventually test Uncage the Menagerie out, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about what combinations of creatures would be best to fetch at what values of X in what situations. My only real issue with it is that it doesn't integrate seamlessly with the rest of the deck. Non-creature slots - especially for non-instants - are really at a premium, even for draw spells, and this card has to compete against things like Greater Good and Genesis Wave. I would have to tap out to cast it to be of assistance early in the game; the only time I could cast it AND the creatures I fetch would be by the time the deck is generating a broken amount mana or has a Seedborn Muse going, at which point things are usually pretty well in hand anyway.
That having been said, I can see this card being huge in green decks that don't mind operating at sorcery speed. It's especially good in EDH, since the "different name" clause won't ever cause any problems (outside of maybe a G/B Relentless Rats deck?). I think it might be the best fit in a deck like Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, that wants tons of bodies on the field and can work to protect and accelerate into them for the final swing. This card would be an excellent way for a deck like that to recover from an early wrath.
And I certainly didn't mean to be rude in any way - english is not my native langauge, so I might not always use words properly.
I see what you mean though, both about Hope Tender and Uncage the Meangerie. I'm in the process of building a mono green control deck with lots of utillity creatures, many at the cost of 3 or 4, which is why Uncage got me hyped. Well, I just look forward to see it in action
No offense taken, and none intended on my part either! I can certainly understand being excited about Uncage the Menagerie; it's powerful card advantage in a part of the color pie that doesn't always see that. It's also a hybrid tutor and draw spell, making sure you get the exact things you want from it. If I were rating the card as a generic green spell out of this set, I'd probably give it a 4/5 - it's not the most broken thing in green card advantage (looking at you, Genesis Wave..), but it's very, very good.
I just find that this build of Yeva plays out a little bit differently than most mono-green decks because she always wants to be working at instant speed. Winding a sorcery into that throws off the tempo of the deck and leaves it more vulnerable to the opponents. That's why powerful cards like Panharmonicon, Cloudstone Curio, and Rishkar's Expertise have ended up on the cutting floor.
I had a glance over at your Kamahl, Fist of Krosa list in your sig. I think that shell would probably be a much better fit for Uncage the Menagerie. Other than wanting some mana free in case of a sweeper, Kamahl doesn't mind operating at sorcery speed. Is that the mono-green deck you're thinking about? I always love looking over other green lists; it's by far the color that speaks to me the most as a Magic player.
PS: I would never have guessed that English was not your native language. I can't imagine even beginning to talk about something as complicated as Magic outside my native language, but then I've never had much linguistic skill. Kudos to you!
No offense taken, and none intended on my part either! I can certainly understand being excited about Uncage the Menagerie; it's powerful card advantage in a part of the color pie that doesn't always see that. It's also a hybrid tutor and draw spell, making sure you get the exact things you want from it. If I were rating the card as a generic green spell out of this set, I'd probably give it a 4/5 - it's not the most broken thing in green card advantage (looking at you, Genesis Wave..), but it's very, very good.
I just find that this build of Yeva plays out a little bit differently than most mono-green decks because she always wants to be working at instant speed. Winding a sorcery into that throws off the tempo of the deck and leaves it more vulnerable to the opponents. That's why powerful cards like Panharmonicon, Cloudstone Curio, and Rishkar's Expertise have ended up on the cutting floor.
I had a glance over at your Kamahl, Fist of Krosa list in your sig. I think that shell would probably be a much better fit for Uncage the Menagerie. Other than wanting some mana free in case of a sweeper, Kamahl doesn't mind operating at sorcery speed. Is that the mono-green deck you're thinking about? I always love looking over other green lists; it's by far the color that speaks to me the most as a Magic player.
PS: I would never have guessed that English was not your native language. I can't imagine even beginning to talk about something as complicated as Magic outside my native language, but then I've never had much linguistic skill. Kudos to you!
First of all - thanks! Discussing magic on this board have certainly improved my writing skills, so I guess that's a bonus having magic as a hobby
The deck in my sig is horrible outdated (you can see a more updated version here, and actually isn't the one I'm going to put Uncage the Menagerie in. I'm not settled on anything yet, but here is what I've got so far:
I'm a bit torn about what commander to run. Yeva seems like a great choice, but on the other hand I really like the card advantage Nissa brings to the table.
I'm a bit torn about what commander to run. Yeva seems like a great choice, but on the other hand I really like the card advantage Nissa brings to the table.
I think, based on the list you posted, that Nissa would probably be the better choice. There's only a couple creatures on the list that really benefit from being instant speed (Invasive Species and Seedborn Muse being the best two examples) and there are so many non-creatures that Nissa's card advantage would probably serve you well. Also the deck is a little light on lands (I count 35, not including Dryad Arbor) for having such a high curve, so having her able to fetch forests out on an ETB trigger would be really helpful.
Personally, I don't think I'm adding anything. I do like Ramunap Excavator, but I don't really play against landdestruction much and I'm not planning to add fetchlands for value.
Btw, if I would be inclined to add fetchlands, I'd add Sensei's Divining Top as well. The deck shuffles well as is, making Top a very good selection tool.
I had a feeling the set might not be a home run for your build. =/ I'm not 100% sold on any of the cards yet (except for Hope Tender).
And, for what it's worth, I'm not entirely happy with the set either. I meant to discuss it in my initial post, but I do think that Overwhelming Splendor is one of the most poorly-designed Magic cards that has been printed in recent memory. I don't mind Humility (although I think it's telling for the "fun levels" of that card that this is the first similar effect that has been printed) because at least it's symmetrical. Speaking as someone who is going to get this card cast on them a lot, however, I do think it's more of a fun killer. If the person targeted didn't pack the answer, or doesn't draw into it out of a 100 card singleton deck (with likely large parts of their draw/tutoring ability nerfed), they're basically dead in the water and no other player is going to have the incentive to remove it for them. Now, I'm not insisting that an 8 mana enchantment be a functional reprint of Humility, but if the card was "opponents get Humility" instead of "ONE opponent gets Humility" I think it would be a much more positive experience for the table as a whole.
There is an answer to this card in my current Yeva list (Beast Within), there are plenty of answers in green, and even a potential answer on a creature that could be included (World Breaker - stupid freaking Devotion, talking about dumb design decisions by WotC), so I'm doing my best not to just kvetch about a card that targets my archetype. I do think that white should have answers to permanent-based decks, and this fits well into an established stax design parameter. But a card that says "Let's all play Magic except for Bob! What a loser!" is going to lead to a lot of hurt feelings and frankly I'm insulted on the multiplayer community's behalf that Wizards didn't take that into account.
EDIT: oops, I meant to discuss Sensei's Divining Top but I got distracted going off on a rant. I have thought about including it, and I might think about it more seriously now, but it's really just such an artifact. I'll probably pick up a copy, what with the various bannings reducing its cost, but there's a few things that I'd like to test out ahead of it. Maybe I'll try it out in a different deck that also shuffles a lot and see if the effect is good enough that Yeva would want it. Thanks for the idea, though, put the card back on my radar (I also have a Scroll Rack lying around that I might experiment with).
I have a little blurb on Lurking Predators (and other "random-cheat-into-play" spells) in the "Draw" section of the OP. Lurking Preds was in the very first version of this deck as well as the first versions of the semi-budget version that I have I feel it does pull its weight in a good-stuff oriented version of the build. After all, Yeva tends to run pretty creature heavy, meaning that some 40%+ of the flips will hit a creature.
The reason it keeps getting cut is that Yeva wants to a) have some control over when and how her creatures are played and b) it doesn't interact well with the rest of the deck in some fundamental ways.
For a), Lurking Predators doesn't include a "may" clause like, say, Genesis Wave does. When an opponent plays a spell, you MUST flip the top card of your library and, if it's a creature, you MUST put it into play. There are lots of creatures in Yeva that I may not wish to play immediately, like Bane of Progress, Reclamation Sage, and Craterhoof Behemoth, some that I may not wish to expose to removal before I can set up the mana to protect them, like Shaman of Forgotten Ways or Temur Sabertooth, and some that could be actively disastrous, like Timbermare when the next player has lethal damage on board and you needed your blockers. Yeva's biggest advantage over other mono-green commanders is that she can pick the timing of her big plays, and Lurking Predators works against that advantage.
For b), Lurking Preds is also a 6 mana enchantment that does nothing when it's played. It's not a creature, so Yeva can't sneak it into play and it doesn't interact with any of the creature-synergy in the deck. To be most effective, Lurking Preds should be played as soon as the mana is available, leaving little or no mana to protect the board state as the turns pass. Throwing it down leaves no mana available in case other players get up to shenanigans on their turn that a creature in my hand might be able to put an end to. Like Panharmonicon and Cloudstone Curio, Lurking Preds can be awesome to have, but actually weaving it into a series of plays that maintains Yeva's head of steam is very difficult.
As I mentioned above, for a more good-stuff version of Yeva, Lurking Predators can be amazing. I even use it for the profile picture in my section detailing that strategy, found here.
You're too kind! I could never have put it together without your help. I've been updating the OP in bits and pieces for about the last month or so, which means I merely hope for it to be coherent. Thanks very much for noticing!
And noticing, as osi has as well, that I tend to type out three sentences for every one that's actually needed.
Thank you for bringing your guide to my attention. It is really quite wonderful, and you should feel proud of the work you've put into it. Having said that, I have a couple of questions for you if you wouldn't mind answering them. Forgive me if you've already done so at length before; I haven't read through the entirety of your thread, only your opening post.
You talked about how Manglehorn's static ability has put him over the top for you. Could you elaborate on that? While I don't doubt your experience with the card per se, I found that claim to be a bit striking. Judging from how you seem to play your deck (and I very well may not have a good intuitive sense of that yet), almost all of your cards are played reactively. That seems especially true for a card like Manglehorn. You wouldn't want to run it out at the first possible moment to blow up something trivial, right? You would wait until there's something substantial that's actually pressing your attention and use Manglehorn to blow that up instead. If what I'm saying is true though (and, again, I could totally be mis-imagining things here), wouldn't the static ability on Manglehorn be rather worthless to you? I mean, sure, I would understand its value if you ran out the card as early as possible. In doing so, the static ability would have as much time as possible to affect opponents throughout the length of the game. By waiting to play the card reactively and only using it in situations where the artifact destruction is actually meaningful though, the Manglehorn's static ability won't persist through nearly as long a time. In fact, by the time I imagine the card being played, wouldn't the game have already progressed to the point where the majority of artifacts that meaningfully enter the battlefield (like mana rocks) have already been played?
I guess I'm just kind of surprised the card was a notable inclusion for you since it doesn't seem like it would jive all that well with your strategy. I figured a worse version of Reclamation Sage would have fit your needs more than a better Viridian Shaman. My intuition just sort of made me wonder whether or not Manglehorn's inclusion was a decision made out of lust for new cardboard or actually genuine.
In your guide you also mention that fetchlands are unnecessary. While I agree with you that their benefits are marginal, wouldn't you agree that they're beneficial nonetheless? I found it surprising that a deck proclaiming to be a 95% build would opt out of them, and that has led me to believe that the cards' pricetags may have been a reason why. Fetchlands synergize with your Sylvan Library, allowing you to throw away cards you don't want to draw in the future; your Krosan Restorer, by facilitating threshold; and your recent Vizier of the Menagerie, by opening up new potential creatures to cast off the top of your deck. Are these interactions you've already considered?
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I suppose that if I am blinded by Manglehorn's "new card smell" I wouldn't be able to tell it, but my gut tells me that it's a great card in the deck and the games where I have drawn it seem to have born that out. You're right that it sits somewhere between a worse Reclamation Sage (in the deck) and a better Viridian Shaman (not in the deck). Rec Sage is such a great card, however, that I would run a full playset of them if the rules of EDH allowed. I do tend to run out the 3-mana destruction creatures more readily than some of the other control elements (usually targeting whoever drew their Sol Ring/Mana Crypt), and I've found that I seldom get to T3 without having some sort of target for them. Manglehorn's static ability is great because it will usually give me a full cycle to deal with a troublesome artifact (so long as it needs to tap) and I don't really need to do anything to enable that except let it sit on the field. It came in to replace Molder Slug, and I do feel that it has been better than that card was.
Plus, there's the always-relevant ability to delay a hasted Blightsteel Colossus, as comes up in ALMOST every game. ^.^
For fetchlands, I will mention that I own one of each of the forest-keyed fetches, so it's not a money question. I basically just stacked the almost irrelevant benefit (deck thinning, some synergy with particular cards) against the almost irrelevant downsides (losing a life, hosed by Aven Mindcensor effects) and decided to stick with basics. I am going to test out the new Magus of the Crucible in the coming weeks, and if he makes the final cut then there would be no reason to exclude the Fetches and a lot of potential upsides. It is possible that I should shuffle the fetches from the "do not include" section to the "meta/budget consideration" section, as I did with the Snow Lands. I'm at work right now, so I'll give it some more consideration and come back to the issue with a fresh mind tonight. I remember we did discuss the fetches at some point in the thread itself, so I'll go back and see what our thoughts then were as well.
Also, thank you very much for your kind words!
EDIT: Found the discussion on fetch lands in the thread. It was just a brief little blurb between Squirrely and I were he (rightly, I think) pointed out that they don't provide much benefit without Titania, Protector of Argoth or something like a Top. I do still think it's a good idea to move them up to the "Budget/Meta" section of the Lands area and I'll rework the text a bit to reflect the impending release of Ramunap Excavator.
As for Manglehorn, I think I'll add a little blurb in the 'using the removal' section to make sure people know that it's ok to run out the 3cc artifact destruction creatures on the early side if there's broken artifact ramp being tossed around.
Also corrected Viridian Zealot above to Viridian Shaman. 'S what I get for typing quickly at work without checking card names.
Ah, good question. The cards are very, very similar, and my thoughts on them are basically the same. That is, the benefit of negating a single attack from a single opponent is not worth the opportunity cost of the card.
In the case of Maze of Ith, the opportunity cost is a non-land deckslot and a land-drop that doesn't produce a mana, throwing off the curve. In the case of Mystifying Maze, the opportunity cost is one of my very limited colorless-producing land deckslots and five mana to use (four to activate plus one for the Maze itself). Mystifying Maze also has the slight but not irrelevant downside of retriggering abilities in the time of "Enter the Battlefield: the Gathering" but it can't be used on my own stuff, which would make it more interesting.
I will update the Maze of Ith entry to make clear it applies to both cards.
Ah, good question. The cards are very, very similar, and my thoughts on them are basically the same. That is, the benefit of negating a single attack from a single opponent is not worth the opportunity cost of the card.
In the case of Maze of Ith, the opportunity cost is a non-land deckslot and a land-drop that doesn't produce a mana, throwing off the curve. In the case of Mystifying Maze, the opportunity cost is one of my very limited colorless-producing land deckslots and five mana to use (four to activate plus one for the Maze itself). Mystifying Maze also has the slight but not irrelevant downside of retriggering abilities in the time of "Enter the Battlefield: the Gathering" but it can't be used on my own stuff, which would make it more interesting.
I will update the Maze of Ith entry to make clear it applies to both cards.
Would Maze combo ala Argothian Elder make the card more worth it?
That's an interesting suggestion, as Argothian Elder is not in and of itself an unplayable card. It compares well to Krosan Restorer, for instance. The biggest problem is that the Elder a four drop, which is already a crowded deckslot here (with Yeva herself being four, plus Vizier of the Menagerie, Karametra's Acolyte, Tempt with Discovery, and a few other cards that beg to be played as soon as mana is available). I usually prefer ramp in the two and three slots and it would be tough to cut one of those for a four-drop ramp spell, and I don't think the Elder competes favorably enough against the Acolyte or Tempt to replace either one of them.
If both of the combo pieces are not really viable in their own right, I don't think the combo would be worth including. Infinite mana is nice, but limiting it to the combat phase only takes away a lot of the versatility of the deck. I've found that the times when Yeva needs burst mana is usually in response to something that another player is doing, like casting a wrath effect, and rarely during her own turn. Genesis Wave is the one card that likes tons of mana during my turn, but it's sorcery speed and wouldn't be helped by this combo.
To conclude my ramble, it's an interesting combo, and one that I was not familiar with before, but I think the deck's plan would be better served without it.
Heck, if you don't want to run it during combat, you could throw in a Rings of Brighthearth and combo off with other cards. (And Rings is already solid with a number of your lands and other effects).
That also allows you to bring back fetches for the nuts Rings + Fetches plan.
So, that is a very, very interesting suggestion. I'm mostly replying to let you know that I'm still thinking about it. My gut instinct is that it's a little too clunky to include in a deck that already routinely generates the quantities of mana that it needs, but I want to make sure I think over all the permutations. It does seem that every time I turn around I think of another activated ability that Rings of Brighthearth would be great with (Greater Good, Survival of the Fittest, Willow Satyr, Garruk, Caller of Beasts), but I also remember the downfall of Panharmonicon and Cloudstone Curio - "do nothing" artifacts that served more to gum up hands than provide advantage.
I'm going straight from work to play with my buddies tonight, so I don't think I'll be able to formulate these vague instincts into a coherent response until Saturday morning.
EDIT: My more complete thoughts:
Maze of Ith, outside of the combo, is a worse-than-useless card. It throws off the curve of the deck or just doesn't get played, at the cost of a valuable deckslot that could otherwise be used for a silver bullet or an engine piece.
The combo with Maze is pretty boss. However, I don't think it solves the biggest problems the deck has, such as difficulty interacting with spells on the stack that don't care about board presence.
It also doesn't really accelerate the deck's clock. By the time the combo is assembled, the deck would be executing its game plan anyway. Using Kamahl, Fist of Krosa's ability twice usually kills everyone just as dead as using it infinite times.
Generating large-but-finite amounts of mana has not often been a problem for this deck.
Rings of Brighthearth is a very interesting suggestion and one that might warrant testing. I'm going to give it a bit more thought. There are a lot of activated abilities that could use with doubling - like the fetches you mentioned, which are currently being testing in conjunction with Ramunap Excavator - and I need to weigh those against the awkwardness that a 3-mana do-nothing artifact introduces.
The cards I've been testing the past couple weeks are:
Vizier of the Menagerie in place of Memory Jar. This is almost certainly going to stick and I'll make the official update in the near future, when I have more time to comb through and make sure I catch all the references to the Jar throughout the OP.
Ramunap Excavator in place of Eldritch Evolution. I'm not sold on this. On the other hand, I've drawn the Excavator once in the ~four games I've played with him, although that once I would have much rather seen a tutor.
Four Gx fetch lands in place of four Forests. Tied to above. I haven't found them to be much better than a Forest, but they haven't had a chance to shine with Magus of the Crucible yet.
Strip Mine in place of Reliquary Tower. I haven't missed Reliquary Tower at all. It will probably be replaced in the near future, I just am not sure if Strip Mine is what will end up sticking.
Endless Sands in for Miren, the Moaning Well. The only time I saw this card, it was the topdeck on the turn I was ready to win. It dropped and produced a colorless mana, I think, but that was about it. I still like it for the extra versatility in this role.
Scavenger Grounds[/c] in for Homeward Path. Haven't seen it in four games. It might become more worth it as my playgroup now features a powerful Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck and the more graveyard hate the better.
[c]
Hour of Promise[/c] in for Reap and Sow: Haven't seen it yet. I don't think Reap and Sow will be coming back, but I'd like to replace it with a cheaper effect. Maybe Sylvan Scrying? I'll give Hour of Promise a chance to do its thing at least once first.
Hope Tender - perhaps because I'm sure of its inclusion and not testing it - has shown up twice and done its job both times. I'm thinking I was basically right in it being a better Juniper Order Druid but a worse Voyaging Satyr.
I do think I found the limits of Yeva's ability to function as the archenemy! Four player games seem to be pretty manageable, but larger ones are not. I got pretty beaten up in a six-player game. The only solace I was able to take after two one-sided land wipes against me was that the mono-U control deck everyone had been ignoring wiped the table. I'm hoping to have some more opportunities to play soon and maybe actually test out these cards that I'm supposed to be testing.
I was going to wait until the Ixalan spoiler was complete before commenting on it, and it did looks as though we were headed towards another C17-esque dud, but then Growing Rites of Itlimoc/Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun was spoiled. I do think that Yeva, Nature's Herald is best placed of any mono-green deck to take advantage of it for the following reasons:
Yeva works at instant speed, so the EOT trigger to flip isn't as big of a deal as it would be for most sorcery-speed green decks.
Yeva runs fairly creature-heavy (~42% right now), so it's very likely to cantrip.
The ramp package in the main list is already set up to abuse Gaea's Cradle, and having a backup cradle can only be a good thing.
Obviously it's not a perfect card. It isn't a creature, so it can't be tutored or recurred as easily as other ramp cards. Enchantments are (next to artifacts) the second worst permanant type for this deck. Even with 40% creatures, the ETB trigger will miss at least some portion of the time.
I also see some discussion of cutting a land for this card and I think that is not an optimal road to follow. This card very much follows the profile of a Tempt with Discovery-esque land ramp card more than it does Gaea's Cradle properly. I think most likely on release I will slot it into Reap and Sow's slot (currently occupied by Hour of Promise, which has not been testing well).
Original post has been updated with my Ixalan review. For the TL;DR folks, it's basically "New Cradle is bananas, everything else is ok or bad."
This does continue the trend of Wizards apparently picking their ideas for new green cards straight out of my dreams. I'm still hoping for that creature-based version of Greater Good, if you're out of ideas for Rivals!
Haven't had a chance to play much recently as my weekends have been eaten up with work and family. I hope to have a game to report on for my next post.
So, Un-cards are going to be legal in EDH for a while, apparently. Because it's only for a couple of weeks, I'm not going to bother updating the main post with my thoughts. Looking through the list of available options, it seems that green really gets screwed (the vast majority of the cards are just big fat creatures with silly ways to make them bigger and fatter) so it's probably good that this is a fleeting trend.
For the TL;DR crowd, my thoughts are as follows: Ineffable Blessing can replace Evolutionary Leap. Everything else is pretty much worthless.
Timmy, Power Gamer: He could almost replace Yeva, Nature's Herald as the general in some respects; he allows for the instant-speed deployment of creatures and even cheats them a little bit. However, he's sorcery-speed himself, meaning he'll be vulnerable if you play him on curve, and he increases the price of a lot of the cheaper creatures this deck plays. Might be fun to switch out with him for the next month, but I don't think it'll be worth it.
Clay Pigeon: Did you play baseball? This card's pretty good if you can catch it. Maybe triple-sleeve your deck for extra weight and a more predictable flight pattern?
Uktabi Kong: This is probably the most playable card of the bunch, just because of the "destroy all artifacts" clause. Unfortunately, it pays a premium to be an 8/8 trample and have an ape reproduction clause that this deck will probably never use. Seeds of Innocence might not be a creature, but it is cheap enough to actually use in a game. Also, for two less mana, you can get Bane of Progress.
Stone-Cold Basilisk: Turning opponents to stone is a pretty cool ability, something that green doesn't get much. Unfortunately, it will work exactly once and then be a dead card for the rest of history. The deathtouch ability is cute, but not enough to save this card.
Laughing Hyena: Great sac fodder for something like Evolutionary Leap. I agree with the committee that "Gotcha" cards are too open for collusion and un-fun games. I'd avoid it. Same idea with Name Dropping.
Eager Beaver: Hey, the Quality Lands Acceleration package loves untapping permanents! If this were a 60-card deck, where I could be more sure of combining it into a half squirrel, it might even be worth it.
Slaying Mantis: Creature destruction in green is not something that can be ignored, silly mechanics aside. I'd probably prefer Foe-Razer Regent still if I wanted this ability though.
Ineffable Blessing: I'd have to count up the flavor text boxes on my creatures to know which side of this is more valuable, but any card that says "draw whenever a creature enters the battlefield" can't be too terrible. I might switch this out with Evolutionary Leap during the window.
Selfie Preservation: I got REALLY excited about this card at first (there being a tree on Gaea's Cradle and all), but then I read it more carefully. "Search for a basic land." Boo.
I did promise to get some game reports into my next update. I've had a chance over the past two months to play Yeva only about half a dozen times (having been asked by my group to limit my playtime) but I was able to finally get some insight into the test cards I've been working on.
The most recent game was a three-player affair, working against Radha, Heir to Keld and Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. I was lucky that both opposing decks appeared to rely on the combat phase to win and ran very little creature destruction, because I accepted a very slow hand (the only acceleration was Tempt with Discovery). I was able to get that down, bringing out a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and a Deserted Temple. I had a Gaea's Cradle in hand as well, but had to discard that to a wheel effect from Radha. I wasn't complaining; the wheel drew me into a Genesis Wave that in turn flipped a Temur Sabertooth. That left me with eleven mana, seven from a flipped Growing Rites of Itlimoc and four mana from three Forests and a Strip Mine. On the next turn, the Sidisi player went for broke, making a huge pile of zombies and dropping a Craterhoof Behemoth to hugeify the ten or so that he had without summoning sickness. He went to his attackers phase and I tapped the new-Cradle. The first mana went to Fauna Shaman, pitching the only creature in my hand (Ramunap Excavator) for Timbermare. The other six mana played Timbermare and then used the Sabertooth to bounce it. I then tapped down Radha's board with my last four mana as he went into combat. On my turn, both opponents were tapped down and I had a bunch of mana and a Kamahl, Fist of Krosa to finish things off.
As for the cards tested, I saw Ramunap Excavator three or four times over the course of the games and was consistently disappointed. The most useful he was in any game was that last one, where he got pitched to a Fauna Shaman to bring up an actually useful card. And that was a game where I had a Strip Mine in play and a Gaea's Cradle in the graveyard. I can't think of a more optimal situation for him, but without extra land drops per turn he doesn't seem worthwhile - Eternal Witness can do work to return lands if I need them. He'll be taken out, but I'm not sure if I'm going to put Eldritch Evolution back in or test another creature. I did feel a bit creature-light in all the games I played. With Excavator vanishing, I'm going to take out the Gx fetch lands as well. Their risk isn't worth their reward unless I can play them from the graveyard.
Endless Sands I still haven't seen have a chance to do it's thing, mostly because it hasn't coincided with a Willow Satyr or a board wipe yet. I'm going to give it more time.
Strip Mine I've actually liked. The ability to nuke a land is super useful, more so than Reliquary Tower ever was. It can stay in. I'll update the main list to reflect this change soon.
Scavenger Grounds I still have yet to see once in a single game. I also have yet to miss Homeward Path, so it can stay around for some more testing.
I'm thinking that I might like some more graveyard hate to replace Ramunap Excavator. That Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck new to my meta is really, really good. Scavenging Ooze might be the ticket here. I'm going to see if I can find what I did with my copy and test it out.
Just read through your primer and it was very informative. I've had a Yeva list together for several years, and you gave me some fresh ideas that I hadn't yet considered, so thanks for putting in all that hard work!
Couple questions on some cards I didn't see mentioned here:
- Garruk Wildspeaker: You seem to be big on untapping lands, and Garruk is pretty solid at doing just that. He also can throw out an Overrun effect without too much effort.
- Emerald Medallion and Rhonas's Monument: I know that Yeva hates artifacts, but these two have really pulled their weight for me. They're both much more subtle than a Sol Ring, so you won't get as much flack early on.
- Gaea's Touch: An old-school Exploration variant that adds an extra point of devotion AND allows you to cash out once it has worn out its welcome or gets too far into the late-game to be valuable.
- Vigor: This is probably more of a meta-call, but if you face any damage-based sweepers, or token decks that actually try to block, or the like, this can get out of hand quickly.
- Lifecrafter's Bestiary: I initially thought that this was a trap card, as it basically made the majority of your spells cost 1 more. However, I saw it in action the other day and it was quite impressive at keeping my opponent's hand full.
Awesome! I'm always glad to hear from another Yeva player, and I'm glad that the primer was helpful. I know there's a million different ways to play her; just the other day, I was drawn into a pod with another Yeva player for the first time at my LGS.
About the cards you mentioned, many of them are among my favorite green cards, and I think I will certainly add blurbs about some of them and the way they can be used in alternate builds to the main list.
At any rate:
Garruk Wildspeaker: His +1 would be awesome for my list, if only he could play it at instant speed. Really, that's the biggest problem I have with any planeswalkerin this list, everything they do is at sorcery speed. Baby Nissa sneaks in because she's a creature at the time I play her, and Garruk, Caller of Beasts represents such massive card advantage that I'm willing to overlook his sorcery-speedness. I don't really value his -1, as I rarely need a 3/3 vanilla creature, and his overrun is nice but it broadcasts itself a lot more than a sudden Hoof or a Kamahl sneaking in at end of turn. On the other hand, Genesis Wave would love him!
Emerald Medallion and Rhonas's Monument: I've found too often that trying to weave sorcery-speed artifacts into an instant-speed deck causes some problems; that's why I ended up cutting Panharmonicon and Cloudstone Curio. I do like the Medallion (the Monument is just a biiiit too much mana for the effect for me), but I prefer the slot to go to some sort of creature-based mana acceleration, like Priest of Titania or Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. As for Sol Ring, that's it's own can of worms! I've been thinking about testing Joraga Treespeaker in its place to help cut down on the overall artifact total and boost up the creature total.
Gaea's Touch: I did run Exploration and Burgeoning in this deck once upon a time, and I think that Gaea's Touch is sort of a hidden gem of a green card for a mono-colored deck. With the land acceleration, the biggest issue I had was that I would drop my entire hand of lands, scare the entire board, and then rarely have the card advantage to take over. I've found that burst acceleration via creatures is more reliable than gradual acceleration via extra land drops for my play style. Also, it's not a creature, and the deck is pretty strapped for non-creature slots already as I like to keep the density above 40; my goal is to eventually push it to 45 creatures in the deck.
Vigor: My initial reaction was to shove Vigor off into the "Big Dumb Green Creature" pile, but you make a good point about its ability to react to damage-based sweepers. Those aren't common enough in my meta to warrant its inclusion (I think I've been the one who has played the most damage-based sweepers! Love my Blasphemous Act in any R-x deck) but I'll certainly add a little blurb about Vigor in the proper section.
Lifecrafter's Bestiary: While the effect is great, this falls into the same "Is it better than non-artifact alternatives?" category as the other artifact. This would theoretically be most useful in the early stages, before something like Soul of the Harvest could come online, but having to pay a tax during that phase of the game would throw off plays more than it would generate advantage, I think. I did test it briefly and it was underwhelming in all the games that I actually saw it - once I had to blow it up to my own Seeds of Innocence because a Daretti player was going crazy.
Speaking of non-creature card advantage, with Ineffable Blessing coming out, I've counted up the current build with the versions of cards I have in there. Yeva and 30 creatures in the current build have flavor text; 14 creatures do not. For the mode that I've heard about where you look at collector's numbers, Yeva and 18 others are odd, 25 are even, and 1 (Willow Satyr) does not have a collector's number. I'm not sure how much I could improve that with tinkering the edition of cards I have in the deck. Most of the cards that don't have flavor text either haven't been and probably won't be reprinted (Willow Satyr, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds) or cards that have huge text boxes (Krosan Restorer, with the reminder text about threshold, and Fierce Empath). And looking through collector's numbers is such a mind-numbing task that I think I'll just wait for the Un-cards to rotate out, lol.
One more off-the-radar card that I find very useful in this list is Thunderfoot Baloth. Obviously it puts a bit more of a bullseye on Yeva, but unlike other Overrun effects, this one is more "permanent".
Hi, welcome to the thread! Don't worry about catching up on all the posts, there's been so many that I honestly can't remember whether or not we've discussed Magus of the Candelabra before. I do know that I've at least thought about it a lot and tested it some. You're right that his biggest flaw is that he doesn't produce a net positive mana without lands that produce 2+ mana. The problem is that in the current decklist, there are only three lands that he works with (Gaea's Cradle with 2+ creatures in play, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx with 4+ devotion in play, or Ancient Tomb) and most of those have restrictions on when he's actually going to work with them.
That's the reason that I'm more excited about Hope Tender. Assuming that I hit my land drop, he gives me 4 mana on T3, enough to play Yeva or Tempt with Discovery, while still providing a ton of mana later in the game once Cradle or Nykthos is online. Magus of the Candelabra is little win-more in my estimation, as he's only good once I already have a mana engine online - he's VERY good in that case, of course!
I do appreciate you bringing him up, though, as I forgot to write him up in the OP under ramp spells. I'll make sure that he gets his own section. He might be worth playing over Krosan Restorer for some people, though again I like her ability to go from 3->5 mana without any help.
I certainly didn't intend to scoff at this card! I do intend to eventually test Uncage the Menagerie out, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about what combinations of creatures would be best to fetch at what values of X in what situations. My only real issue with it is that it doesn't integrate seamlessly with the rest of the deck. Non-creature slots - especially for non-instants - are really at a premium, even for draw spells, and this card has to compete against things like Greater Good and Genesis Wave. I would have to tap out to cast it to be of assistance early in the game; the only time I could cast it AND the creatures I fetch would be by the time the deck is generating a broken amount mana or has a Seedborn Muse going, at which point things are usually pretty well in hand anyway.
That having been said, I can see this card being huge in green decks that don't mind operating at sorcery speed. It's especially good in EDH, since the "different name" clause won't ever cause any problems (outside of maybe a G/B Relentless Rats deck?). I think it might be the best fit in a deck like Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, that wants tons of bodies on the field and can work to protect and accelerate into them for the final swing. This card would be an excellent way for a deck like that to recover from an early wrath.
And I certainly didn't mean to be rude in any way - english is not my native langauge, so I might not always use words properly.
I see what you mean though, both about Hope Tender and Uncage the Meangerie. I'm in the process of building a mono green control deck with lots of utillity creatures, many at the cost of 3 or 4, which is why Uncage got me hyped. Well, I just look forward to see it in action
I just find that this build of Yeva plays out a little bit differently than most mono-green decks because she always wants to be working at instant speed. Winding a sorcery into that throws off the tempo of the deck and leaves it more vulnerable to the opponents. That's why powerful cards like Panharmonicon, Cloudstone Curio, and Rishkar's Expertise have ended up on the cutting floor.
I had a glance over at your Kamahl, Fist of Krosa list in your sig. I think that shell would probably be a much better fit for Uncage the Menagerie. Other than wanting some mana free in case of a sweeper, Kamahl doesn't mind operating at sorcery speed. Is that the mono-green deck you're thinking about? I always love looking over other green lists; it's by far the color that speaks to me the most as a Magic player.
PS: I would never have guessed that English was not your native language. I can't imagine even beginning to talk about something as complicated as Magic outside my native language, but then I've never had much linguistic skill. Kudos to you!
First of all - thanks! Discussing magic on this board have certainly improved my writing skills, so I guess that's a bonus having magic as a hobby
The deck in my sig is horrible outdated (you can see a more updated version here, and actually isn't the one I'm going to put Uncage the Menagerie in. I'm not settled on anything yet, but here is what I've got so far:
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Creatures:
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Riftsweeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Invasive Species
1 Krosan Restorer
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Wood Elves
1 Masked Admirers
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Spike Weaver
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Vizier of the Menagerie
1 Willow Satyr
1 Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 Acidic Slime
1 Genesis
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Realm Seekers
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Hornet Queen
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Constant Mists
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Beast Within
1 Momentous Fall
Sorceries
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Explore
1 Nature's Lore
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Seeds of Innocence
1 Calming Verse
1 Reap and Sow
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Ezuri's Predation
1 Praetor's Counsel
Artifacts
1 Emerald Medallion
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Birthing Pod
1 Vedalken Orrery
Enchantments
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Asceticism
1 Tornado
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Zendikar Resurgent
1 Drownyard Temple
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaea's Cradle (if I ever get to own one)
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Slippery Karst
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Winding Canyons
1 Yavimaya Hollows
24 Forest
I'm a bit torn about what commander to run. Yeva seems like a great choice, but on the other hand I really like the card advantage Nissa brings to the table.
I think, based on the list you posted, that Nissa would probably be the better choice. There's only a couple creatures on the list that really benefit from being instant speed (Invasive Species and Seedborn Muse being the best two examples) and there are so many non-creatures that Nissa's card advantage would probably serve you well. Also the deck is a little light on lands (I count 35, not including Dryad Arbor) for having such a high curve, so having her able to fetch forests out on an ETB trigger would be really helpful.
I had a feeling the set might not be a home run for your build. =/ I'm not 100% sold on any of the cards yet (except for Hope Tender).
And, for what it's worth, I'm not entirely happy with the set either. I meant to discuss it in my initial post, but I do think that Overwhelming Splendor is one of the most poorly-designed Magic cards that has been printed in recent memory. I don't mind Humility (although I think it's telling for the "fun levels" of that card that this is the first similar effect that has been printed) because at least it's symmetrical. Speaking as someone who is going to get this card cast on them a lot, however, I do think it's more of a fun killer. If the person targeted didn't pack the answer, or doesn't draw into it out of a 100 card singleton deck (with likely large parts of their draw/tutoring ability nerfed), they're basically dead in the water and no other player is going to have the incentive to remove it for them. Now, I'm not insisting that an 8 mana enchantment be a functional reprint of Humility, but if the card was "opponents get Humility" instead of "ONE opponent gets Humility" I think it would be a much more positive experience for the table as a whole.
There is an answer to this card in my current Yeva list (Beast Within), there are plenty of answers in green, and even a potential answer on a creature that could be included (World Breaker - stupid freaking Devotion, talking about dumb design decisions by WotC), so I'm doing my best not to just kvetch about a card that targets my archetype. I do think that white should have answers to permanent-based decks, and this fits well into an established stax design parameter. But a card that says "Let's all play Magic except for Bob! What a loser!" is going to lead to a lot of hurt feelings and frankly I'm insulted on the multiplayer community's behalf that Wizards didn't take that into account.
EDIT: oops, I meant to discuss Sensei's Divining Top but I got distracted going off on a rant. I have thought about including it, and I might think about it more seriously now, but it's really just such an artifact. I'll probably pick up a copy, what with the various bannings reducing its cost, but there's a few things that I'd like to test out ahead of it. Maybe I'll try it out in a different deck that also shuffles a lot and see if the effect is good enough that Yeva would want it. Thanks for the idea, though, put the card back on my radar (I also have a Scroll Rack lying around that I might experiment with).
I have a little blurb on Lurking Predators (and other "random-cheat-into-play" spells) in the "Draw" section of the OP. Lurking Preds was in the very first version of this deck as well as the first versions of the semi-budget version that I have I feel it does pull its weight in a good-stuff oriented version of the build. After all, Yeva tends to run pretty creature heavy, meaning that some 40%+ of the flips will hit a creature.
The reason it keeps getting cut is that Yeva wants to a) have some control over when and how her creatures are played and b) it doesn't interact well with the rest of the deck in some fundamental ways.
For a), Lurking Predators doesn't include a "may" clause like, say, Genesis Wave does. When an opponent plays a spell, you MUST flip the top card of your library and, if it's a creature, you MUST put it into play. There are lots of creatures in Yeva that I may not wish to play immediately, like Bane of Progress, Reclamation Sage, and Craterhoof Behemoth, some that I may not wish to expose to removal before I can set up the mana to protect them, like Shaman of Forgotten Ways or Temur Sabertooth, and some that could be actively disastrous, like Timbermare when the next player has lethal damage on board and you needed your blockers. Yeva's biggest advantage over other mono-green commanders is that she can pick the timing of her big plays, and Lurking Predators works against that advantage.
For b), Lurking Preds is also a 6 mana enchantment that does nothing when it's played. It's not a creature, so Yeva can't sneak it into play and it doesn't interact with any of the creature-synergy in the deck. To be most effective, Lurking Preds should be played as soon as the mana is available, leaving little or no mana to protect the board state as the turns pass. Throwing it down leaves no mana available in case other players get up to shenanigans on their turn that a creature in my hand might be able to put an end to. Like Panharmonicon and Cloudstone Curio, Lurking Preds can be awesome to have, but actually weaving it into a series of plays that maintains Yeva's head of steam is very difficult.
As I mentioned above, for a more good-stuff version of Yeva, Lurking Predators can be amazing. I even use it for the profile picture in my section detailing that strategy, found here.
Thanks again for the question!
And noticing, as osi has as well, that I tend to type out three sentences for every one that's actually needed.
Thank you for bringing your guide to my attention. It is really quite wonderful, and you should feel proud of the work you've put into it. Having said that, I have a couple of questions for you if you wouldn't mind answering them. Forgive me if you've already done so at length before; I haven't read through the entirety of your thread, only your opening post.
You talked about how Manglehorn's static ability has put him over the top for you. Could you elaborate on that? While I don't doubt your experience with the card per se, I found that claim to be a bit striking. Judging from how you seem to play your deck (and I very well may not have a good intuitive sense of that yet), almost all of your cards are played reactively. That seems especially true for a card like Manglehorn. You wouldn't want to run it out at the first possible moment to blow up something trivial, right? You would wait until there's something substantial that's actually pressing your attention and use Manglehorn to blow that up instead. If what I'm saying is true though (and, again, I could totally be mis-imagining things here), wouldn't the static ability on Manglehorn be rather worthless to you? I mean, sure, I would understand its value if you ran out the card as early as possible. In doing so, the static ability would have as much time as possible to affect opponents throughout the length of the game. By waiting to play the card reactively and only using it in situations where the artifact destruction is actually meaningful though, the Manglehorn's static ability won't persist through nearly as long a time. In fact, by the time I imagine the card being played, wouldn't the game have already progressed to the point where the majority of artifacts that meaningfully enter the battlefield (like mana rocks) have already been played?
I guess I'm just kind of surprised the card was a notable inclusion for you since it doesn't seem like it would jive all that well with your strategy. I figured a worse version of Reclamation Sage would have fit your needs more than a better Viridian Shaman. My intuition just sort of made me wonder whether or not Manglehorn's inclusion was a decision made out of lust for new cardboard or actually genuine.
In your guide you also mention that fetchlands are unnecessary. While I agree with you that their benefits are marginal, wouldn't you agree that they're beneficial nonetheless? I found it surprising that a deck proclaiming to be a 95% build would opt out of them, and that has led me to believe that the cards' pricetags may have been a reason why. Fetchlands synergize with your Sylvan Library, allowing you to throw away cards you don't want to draw in the future; your Krosan Restorer, by facilitating threshold; and your recent Vizier of the Menagerie, by opening up new potential creatures to cast off the top of your deck. Are these interactions you've already considered?
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I suppose that if I am blinded by Manglehorn's "new card smell" I wouldn't be able to tell it, but my gut tells me that it's a great card in the deck and the games where I have drawn it seem to have born that out. You're right that it sits somewhere between a worse Reclamation Sage (in the deck) and a better Viridian Shaman (not in the deck). Rec Sage is such a great card, however, that I would run a full playset of them if the rules of EDH allowed. I do tend to run out the 3-mana destruction creatures more readily than some of the other control elements (usually targeting whoever drew their Sol Ring/Mana Crypt), and I've found that I seldom get to T3 without having some sort of target for them. Manglehorn's static ability is great because it will usually give me a full cycle to deal with a troublesome artifact (so long as it needs to tap) and I don't really need to do anything to enable that except let it sit on the field. It came in to replace Molder Slug, and I do feel that it has been better than that card was.
Plus, there's the always-relevant ability to delay a hasted Blightsteel Colossus, as comes up in ALMOST every game. ^.^
For fetchlands, I will mention that I own one of each of the forest-keyed fetches, so it's not a money question. I basically just stacked the almost irrelevant benefit (deck thinning, some synergy with particular cards) against the almost irrelevant downsides (losing a life, hosed by Aven Mindcensor effects) and decided to stick with basics. I am going to test out the new Magus of the Crucible in the coming weeks, and if he makes the final cut then there would be no reason to exclude the Fetches and a lot of potential upsides. It is possible that I should shuffle the fetches from the "do not include" section to the "meta/budget consideration" section, as I did with the Snow Lands. I'm at work right now, so I'll give it some more consideration and come back to the issue with a fresh mind tonight. I remember we did discuss the fetches at some point in the thread itself, so I'll go back and see what our thoughts then were as well.
Also, thank you very much for your kind words!
EDIT: Found the discussion on fetch lands in the thread. It was just a brief little blurb between Squirrely and I were he (rightly, I think) pointed out that they don't provide much benefit without Titania, Protector of Argoth or something like a Top. I do still think it's a good idea to move them up to the "Budget/Meta" section of the Lands area and I'll rework the text a bit to reflect the impending release of Ramunap Excavator.
As for Manglehorn, I think I'll add a little blurb in the 'using the removal' section to make sure people know that it's ok to run out the 3cc artifact destruction creatures on the early side if there's broken artifact ramp being tossed around.
Also corrected Viridian Zealot above to Viridian Shaman. 'S what I get for typing quickly at work without checking card names.
Cheers!
Ah, good question. The cards are very, very similar, and my thoughts on them are basically the same. That is, the benefit of negating a single attack from a single opponent is not worth the opportunity cost of the card.
In the case of Maze of Ith, the opportunity cost is a non-land deckslot and a land-drop that doesn't produce a mana, throwing off the curve. In the case of Mystifying Maze, the opportunity cost is one of my very limited colorless-producing land deckslots and five mana to use (four to activate plus one for the Maze itself). Mystifying Maze also has the slight but not irrelevant downside of retriggering abilities in the time of "Enter the Battlefield: the Gathering" but it can't be used on my own stuff, which would make it more interesting.
I will update the Maze of Ith entry to make clear it applies to both cards.
Would Maze combo ala Argothian Elder make the card more worth it?
If both of the combo pieces are not really viable in their own right, I don't think the combo would be worth including. Infinite mana is nice, but limiting it to the combat phase only takes away a lot of the versatility of the deck. I've found that the times when Yeva needs burst mana is usually in response to something that another player is doing, like casting a wrath effect, and rarely during her own turn. Genesis Wave is the one card that likes tons of mana during my turn, but it's sorcery speed and wouldn't be helped by this combo.
To conclude my ramble, it's an interesting combo, and one that I was not familiar with before, but I think the deck's plan would be better served without it.
Heck, if you don't want to run it during combat, you could throw in a Rings of Brighthearth and combo off with other cards. (And Rings is already solid with a number of your lands and other effects).
That also allows you to bring back fetches for the nuts Rings + Fetches plan.
I'm going straight from work to play with my buddies tonight, so I don't think I'll be able to formulate these vague instincts into a coherent response until Saturday morning.
EDIT: My more complete thoughts:
Hope Tender - perhaps because I'm sure of its inclusion and not testing it - has shown up twice and done its job both times. I'm thinking I was basically right in it being a better Juniper Order Druid but a worse Voyaging Satyr.
I do think I found the limits of Yeva's ability to function as the archenemy! Four player games seem to be pretty manageable, but larger ones are not. I got pretty beaten up in a six-player game. The only solace I was able to take after two one-sided land wipes against me was that the mono-U control deck everyone had been ignoring wiped the table. I'm hoping to have some more opportunities to play soon and maybe actually test out these cards that I'm supposed to be testing.
Obviously it's not a perfect card. It isn't a creature, so it can't be tutored or recurred as easily as other ramp cards. Enchantments are (next to artifacts) the second worst permanant type for this deck. Even with 40% creatures, the ETB trigger will miss at least some portion of the time.
I also see some discussion of cutting a land for this card and I think that is not an optimal road to follow. This card very much follows the profile of a Tempt with Discovery-esque land ramp card more than it does Gaea's Cradle properly. I think most likely on release I will slot it into Reap and Sow's slot (currently occupied by Hour of Promise, which has not been testing well).
This does continue the trend of Wizards apparently picking their ideas for new green cards straight out of my dreams. I'm still hoping for that creature-based version of Greater Good, if you're out of ideas for Rivals!
I also finally updated things to show that Reap and Sow and Memory Jar were cut and replaced by New Cradle and Vizier of the Menagerie respectively.
Haven't had a chance to play much recently as my weekends have been eaten up with work and family. I hope to have a game to report on for my next post.
For the TL;DR crowd, my thoughts are as follows: Ineffable Blessing can replace Evolutionary Leap. Everything else is pretty much worthless.
I did promise to get some game reports into my next update. I've had a chance over the past two months to play Yeva only about half a dozen times (having been asked by my group to limit my playtime) but I was able to finally get some insight into the test cards I've been working on.
The most recent game was a three-player affair, working against Radha, Heir to Keld and Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. I was lucky that both opposing decks appeared to rely on the combat phase to win and ran very little creature destruction, because I accepted a very slow hand (the only acceleration was Tempt with Discovery). I was able to get that down, bringing out a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and a Deserted Temple. I had a Gaea's Cradle in hand as well, but had to discard that to a wheel effect from Radha. I wasn't complaining; the wheel drew me into a Genesis Wave that in turn flipped a Temur Sabertooth. That left me with eleven mana, seven from a flipped Growing Rites of Itlimoc and four mana from three Forests and a Strip Mine. On the next turn, the Sidisi player went for broke, making a huge pile of zombies and dropping a Craterhoof Behemoth to hugeify the ten or so that he had without summoning sickness. He went to his attackers phase and I tapped the new-Cradle. The first mana went to Fauna Shaman, pitching the only creature in my hand (Ramunap Excavator) for Timbermare. The other six mana played Timbermare and then used the Sabertooth to bounce it. I then tapped down Radha's board with my last four mana as he went into combat. On my turn, both opponents were tapped down and I had a bunch of mana and a Kamahl, Fist of Krosa to finish things off.
As for the cards tested, I saw Ramunap Excavator three or four times over the course of the games and was consistently disappointed. The most useful he was in any game was that last one, where he got pitched to a Fauna Shaman to bring up an actually useful card. And that was a game where I had a Strip Mine in play and a Gaea's Cradle in the graveyard. I can't think of a more optimal situation for him, but without extra land drops per turn he doesn't seem worthwhile - Eternal Witness can do work to return lands if I need them. He'll be taken out, but I'm not sure if I'm going to put Eldritch Evolution back in or test another creature. I did feel a bit creature-light in all the games I played. With Excavator vanishing, I'm going to take out the Gx fetch lands as well. Their risk isn't worth their reward unless I can play them from the graveyard.
Endless Sands I still haven't seen have a chance to do it's thing, mostly because it hasn't coincided with a Willow Satyr or a board wipe yet. I'm going to give it more time.
Strip Mine I've actually liked. The ability to nuke a land is super useful, more so than Reliquary Tower ever was. It can stay in. I'll update the main list to reflect this change soon.
Scavenger Grounds I still have yet to see once in a single game. I also have yet to miss Homeward Path, so it can stay around for some more testing.
I'm thinking that I might like some more graveyard hate to replace Ramunap Excavator. That Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck new to my meta is really, really good. Scavenging Ooze might be the ticket here. I'm going to see if I can find what I did with my copy and test it out.
Couple questions on some cards I didn't see mentioned here:
- Garruk Wildspeaker: You seem to be big on untapping lands, and Garruk is pretty solid at doing just that. He also can throw out an Overrun effect without too much effort.
- Emerald Medallion and Rhonas's Monument: I know that Yeva hates artifacts, but these two have really pulled their weight for me. They're both much more subtle than a Sol Ring, so you won't get as much flack early on.
- Gaea's Touch: An old-school Exploration variant that adds an extra point of devotion AND allows you to cash out once it has worn out its welcome or gets too far into the late-game to be valuable.
- Vigor: This is probably more of a meta-call, but if you face any damage-based sweepers, or token decks that actually try to block, or the like, this can get out of hand quickly.
- Lifecrafter's Bestiary: I initially thought that this was a trap card, as it basically made the majority of your spells cost 1 more. However, I saw it in action the other day and it was quite impressive at keeping my opponent's hand full.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
About the cards you mentioned, many of them are among my favorite green cards, and I think I will certainly add blurbs about some of them and the way they can be used in alternate builds to the main list.
At any rate:
Speaking of non-creature card advantage, with Ineffable Blessing coming out, I've counted up the current build with the versions of cards I have in there. Yeva and 30 creatures in the current build have flavor text; 14 creatures do not. For the mode that I've heard about where you look at collector's numbers, Yeva and 18 others are odd, 25 are even, and 1 (Willow Satyr) does not have a collector's number. I'm not sure how much I could improve that with tinkering the edition of cards I have in the deck. Most of the cards that don't have flavor text either haven't been and probably won't be reprinted (Willow Satyr, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds) or cards that have huge text boxes (Krosan Restorer, with the reminder text about threshold, and Fierce Empath). And looking through collector's numbers is such a mind-numbing task that I think I'll just wait for the Un-cards to rotate out, lol.
Love me some green Sol Ring! If you're into creature-based accelerant, this is the best one outside of Priest of Titania.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani